Re: [FRIAM] Static Site Generator

[Steve Smith]

  
  
Awesome Frank!
  
  Mine was a PERL script that served up Gopher File Trees as HTML
  via HTTP when the only graphical browser was on the NeXT.  You
  should have heard the screams when after a couple of years,  we
  quit serving up the old Gopher trees, there was no new content
  there to speak of, but there were folks who insisted we should
  stick to a strict list-hierarchy format with no formatting and no
  graphics.   


  Here is the first HTML page I ever created in
1992(?).
  http://www.Phil.CMU.edu/~wimberly/
  View source.  It may also be the last.  I changed the
photo and added to the publications list.  I added the applet in
about 1996.  I am surprised it still renders.
  Frank
  Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Phone
(505) 670-9918
  On Oct 13, 2015 6:21 PM, "Russell
Standish" 
wrote:
On Tue, Oct
  13, 2015 at 05:18:09PM -0600, Gillian Densmore wrote:
  > And thread topic Integrity Field  Deterioration
  initiated.
  >
  > According to: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_web_browser
  >
  > Text based web browsers  were around in some form since
  the 80's, (for
  > example)
  
  Not web browsers, as the web didn't exist, but hypertext
  browsers,
  sure. Actually, I was impressed that hypertext BBS browsers
  exited
  back then - I don't remember anything of the sort from the
  '80s, but
  then I really didn't inhabit the BBS scene. It was all ftp and
  archie
  (the '80s equivalent of google) and usenet (the '80s
  equivalent of
  facebook) then.
  
  The first thing that 'might' be called a web browser would be
  gopher,
  but even that was more or less contemporaneous with the first
  http servers.
  
  
  --
  

  Prof Russell Standish                  Phone 0425 253119
  (mobile)
  Principal, High Performance Coders
  Visiting Professor of Mathematics      hpco...@hpcoders.com.au
  University of New South Wales          http://www.hpcoders.com.au

  
  
  FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
  Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
  to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

  
  
  
  
  
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com


  



FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

Re: [FRIAM] Static Site Generator

[Frank Wimberly]

Here is the first HTML page I ever created in 1992(?).

http://www.Phil.CMU.edu/~wimberly/

View source.  It may also be the last.  I changed the photo and added to
the publications list.  I added the applet in about 1996.  I am surprised
it still renders.

Frank

Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Phone
(505) 670-9918
On Oct 13, 2015 6:21 PM, "Russell Standish"  wrote:

> On Tue, Oct 13, 2015 at 05:18:09PM -0600, Gillian Densmore wrote:
> > And thread topic Integrity Field  Deterioration initiated.
> >
> > According to: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_web_browser
> >
> > Text based web browsers  were around in some form since the 80's, (for
> > example)
>
> Not web browsers, as the web didn't exist, but hypertext browsers,
> sure. Actually, I was impressed that hypertext BBS browsers exited
> back then - I don't remember anything of the sort from the '80s, but
> then I really didn't inhabit the BBS scene. It was all ftp and archie
> (the '80s equivalent of google) and usenet (the '80s equivalent of
> facebook) then.
>
> The first thing that 'might' be called a web browser would be gopher,
> but even that was more or less contemporaneous with the first http servers.
>
>
> --
>
>
> 
> Prof Russell Standish  Phone 0425 253119 (mobile)
> Principal, High Performance Coders
> Visiting Professor of Mathematics  hpco...@hpcoders.com.au
> University of New South Wales  http://www.hpcoders.com.au
>
> 
>
> 
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
>

FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

Re: [FRIAM] Static Site Generator

[Russell Standish]

On Tue, Oct 13, 2015 at 05:18:09PM -0600, Gillian Densmore wrote:
> And thread topic Integrity Field  Deterioration initiated.
> 
> According to: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_web_browser
> 
> Text based web browsers  were around in some form since the 80's, (for
> example)

Not web browsers, as the web didn't exist, but hypertext browsers,
sure. Actually, I was impressed that hypertext BBS browsers exited
back then - I don't remember anything of the sort from the '80s, but
then I really didn't inhabit the BBS scene. It was all ftp and archie
(the '80s equivalent of google) and usenet (the '80s equivalent of
facebook) then.

The first thing that 'might' be called a web browser would be gopher,
but even that was more or less contemporaneous with the first http servers. 


-- 


Prof Russell Standish  Phone 0425 253119 (mobile)
Principal, High Performance Coders
Visiting Professor of Mathematics  hpco...@hpcoders.com.au
University of New South Wales  http://www.hpcoders.com.au



FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

Re: [FRIAM] Static Site Generator

[Marcus Daniels]

I liked this quote:

“In 1989, he declined joining the Mosaic browser team with his preference for 
knowledge/wisdom creation over distributing information ... a problem he says 
is still not solved by today's internet.”

I remember seeing Mosaic and HTML and thinking exactly the same thing back then.
So much wasted energy making pretty pages…

Marcus


From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of Gillian Densmore
Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2015 5:18 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group 
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Static Site Generator

And thread topic Integrity Field  Deterioration initiated.

According to: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_web_browser

Text based web browsers  were around in some form since the 80's, (for example)


 and most importantly  it was a razzing but I suspect you know that. ^_^ or 
hope you do.


I'm rarely ahead of my time. I have however been noted to be ahead of my garlic.


On Tue, Oct 13, 2015 at 3:14 PM, Russell Standish 
mailto:li...@hpcoders.com.au>> wrote:
On Tue, Oct 13, 2015 at 10:39:14AM -0600, Gillian Densmore wrote:
> YES, Well good ol'fation HTML with CSS has worked since the lasted from 70s
> to present.
> With Linx.

Wow - you were WAY ahead of your time! Given that HTML and the web
wasn't invented until about 1990, and Linus started writing his kernel
about the same time.



--


Prof Russell Standish  Phone 0425 253119 (mobile)
Principal, High Performance Coders
Visiting Professor of Mathematics  
hpco...@hpcoders.com.au
University of New South Wales  http://www.hpcoders.com.au


FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com


FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

Re: [FRIAM] Static Site Generator

[glen]

I have no idea how they formatted it; and I suspect the graphics were like 
ANSI.  But I was using this monstrosity in the early '80s:

  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minitel

I experienced my first virtual crush on a chatter named Anastasia... at that 
age, the name, itself was enough. 8^)  Prior to that it was all BBSes, with 
their various underlying formatting tools.  It all came flooding back when I 
stumbled across http://telehack.com/



On 10/13/2015 04:18 PM, Gillian Densmore wrote:

And thread topic Integrity Field  Deterioration initiated.

According to: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_web_browser

Text based web browsers  were around in some form since the 80's, (for
example)



--
⇔ glen


FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

Re: [FRIAM] Static Site Generator

[Gillian Densmore]

And thread topic Integrity Field  Deterioration initiated.

According to: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_web_browser

Text based web browsers  were around in some form since the 80's, (for
example)


 and most importantly  it was a razzing but I suspect you know that. ^_^ or
hope you do.


I'm rarely ahead of my time. I have however been noted to be ahead of my
garlic.


On Tue, Oct 13, 2015 at 3:14 PM, Russell Standish 
wrote:

> On Tue, Oct 13, 2015 at 10:39:14AM -0600, Gillian Densmore wrote:
> > YES, Well good ol'fation HTML with CSS has worked since the lasted from
> 70s
> > to present.
> > With Linx.
>
> Wow - you were WAY ahead of your time! Given that HTML and the web
> wasn't invented until about 1990, and Linus started writing his kernel
> about the same time.
>
>
>
> --
>
>
> 
> Prof Russell Standish  Phone 0425 253119 (mobile)
> Principal, High Performance Coders
> Visiting Professor of Mathematics  hpco...@hpcoders.com.au
> University of New South Wales  http://www.hpcoders.com.au
>
> 
>
> 
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
>

FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

Re: [FRIAM] Static Site Generator

[Russell Standish]

On Tue, Oct 13, 2015 at 10:39:14AM -0600, Gillian Densmore wrote:
> YES, Well good ol'fation HTML with CSS has worked since the lasted from 70s
> to present.
> With Linx.

Wow - you were WAY ahead of your time! Given that HTML and the web
wasn't invented until about 1990, and Linus started writing his kernel
about the same time.



-- 


Prof Russell Standish  Phone 0425 253119 (mobile)
Principal, High Performance Coders
Visiting Professor of Mathematics  hpco...@hpcoders.com.au
University of New South Wales  http://www.hpcoders.com.au



FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

Re: [FRIAM] Static Site Generator

[Gillian Densmore]

YES, Well good ol'fation HTML with CSS has worked since the lasted from 70s
to present.
With Linx.
I haven't a clue if it's a over complicated thing or just right tool for
the job thing, it might be a little of both.
Sufficed to say they they're strength is making a a few pages with a
template. The challenge the ones i know of run into is folder management.
Updating them is sometimes a slight issue,

Ever mis place a file?, or lots of them?
 Suffice to say say that's something that Wordpress tries to avoid by
encouraging you to upload your stuff, make a draft, a copy, then update but
it's all a matter of taste ^_^







On Tue, Oct 13, 2015 at 9:52 AM, Owen Densmore  wrote:

> On Tue, Oct 13, 2015 at 9:31 AM, Gillian Densmore 
> wrote:
>
>> Is generator the right word?
>>
>
> ​Yes. It's called that because you do an initial setup which establishes
> the basic layout of the site. Then when you add content, Markdown files
> generally, ​you run a CLI tool that generates your basic
> HTML/CSS/Javascript site.
>
> It is only "static" in that there is no code on the server that is run, no
> databases, php, etc. Just plain HTML/CSS/Javascript. This makes them *very*
> fast, but more important, simple enough that you use the tools you used as
> a developer: node, javascript, canvas/webgl, and so on.
>
> There are no mysteries. You know what is happening, and how. All the
> "dynanics" is done off-line and the user of the site suffers no silly
> delays caused by php/sql/etc. And they can be far more dynamic than you'd
> think. Comments are possible. AJAX allows "dynamic" access to content. But
> still no more than an HTTP server needed.
>
> And you can run it anywhere: Dropbox, Amazon S3, GitHub Pages and many
> more that simply provide HTTP access to your data.
>
> I like the cultural aspect as well: when things get too complicated, they
> implode under their own weight. I believe this is happening with websites &
> CMSs. Folks are sick of the complexity of WordPress and they realize that
> they really don't need 80% of their far-too-many features.
>
>-- Owen
>
> 
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
>

FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

Re: [FRIAM] Static Site Generator

[Owen Densmore]

On Tue, Oct 13, 2015 at 9:31 AM, Gillian Densmore 
wrote:

> Is generator the right word?
>

​Yes. It's called that because you do an initial setup which establishes
the basic layout of the site. Then when you add content, Markdown files
generally, ​you run a CLI tool that generates your basic
HTML/CSS/Javascript site.

It is only "static" in that there is no code on the server that is run, no
databases, php, etc. Just plain HTML/CSS/Javascript. This makes them *very*
fast, but more important, simple enough that you use the tools you used as
a developer: node, javascript, canvas/webgl, and so on.

There are no mysteries. You know what is happening, and how. All the
"dynanics" is done off-line and the user of the site suffers no silly
delays caused by php/sql/etc. And they can be far more dynamic than you'd
think. Comments are possible. AJAX allows "dynamic" access to content. But
still no more than an HTTP server needed.

And you can run it anywhere: Dropbox, Amazon S3, GitHub Pages and many more
that simply provide HTTP access to your data.

I like the cultural aspect as well: when things get too complicated, they
implode under their own weight. I believe this is happening with websites &
CMSs. Folks are sick of the complexity of WordPress and they realize that
they really don't need 80% of their far-too-many features.

   -- Owen

FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

Re: [FRIAM] Static Site Generator

[Marcus Daniels]

“I have decided to narrow it down to node+javascript, of which there are 
plenty.”

https://github.com/IonicaBizau/node-cobol/blob/master/README.md

FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

Re: [FRIAM] Static Site Generator

[Owen Densmore]

On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 9:46 PM, Gary Schiltz 
 wrote:

> Have you started building the site generator?
>

Not yet, and not sure I'll do my own. It was just that the webgl mooc
experience lead me to understand sorta how they work so I thought I'd see
how well the existing ones work.

I have decided to narrow it down to node+javascript, of which there are
plenty.

   -- Owen

FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

Re: [FRIAM] Static Site Generator

[Gillian Densmore]

Is generator the right word?
It sounds like you want a system to manage files and folders, is that
right?

For what-what-it's-worth. HTML templates is a fine way to start.
historically wordpress, drupal and the like were popular because, they just
worked.. Though I'd say the same about good ol fation HTML.

And also "right tool fer the job!"-Scotty and basically every pragmatist
ever.

I'm concerned this is becoming a rabbit hole for you.On the one hand you're
justifiably frustrated backspace went poof, on the other hand your
fidgeting with technologies, and doodads that are basicaly in beta and
sometimes work and others don't.

 I have a pretty clear picture that won't end well, and you'll be sitting
at a pub with some mead or beer or mumbling about why is this way to
complicated everything sucks.

>From what I gather when you started this thread you wanted to get
backspaces(webpage) going, and basically have a way to blog and talk about
cool things. That's cool and very much needed these days
Or am I wrong?
I'm a little confused now because you on one hand say you want a
weby-helper, on the other say they all suck and I'ma make my own, while at
the same time raving about folder'n File helpers, espousing the virtues of
markdown. Grubber might be amused.

By all meens try to make a better content maker as a hobby. Just don't let
it irk you, tinker while it's fun, then stop and surface.
How wever for backspaces(webywebysite) any ideas what would be good
enough?^_^  It might be good enough to have a file and folder manager, and
just use good ol fation HTML.
There's a bunch of those from Kompozer to Htmly, and Sea Monky's Composer
System , to Raptor probably lots of others such as Ubruco(however that's
spelled) and Sympyany wich at one time was used by some big names such as
Wired.,
 It might not be your taste though.

On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 9:46 PM, Gary Schiltz 
wrote:

> Have you started building the site generator?
>
>
> On Monday, October 12, 2015, Owen Densmore  wrote:
>
>> I guess I should be clear about why I'm looking for a static site
>> generator.
>>
>> CMSs, to me, isolate me from my site. If I want to change to a different
>> technology, I have to fight MySql & PHP, both pretty old and showing their
>> flaws. I'm also separated from my content itself.  So if I have a markdown
>> or latex core, then its fairly easy to change tech.
>>
>> I also don't like the way CMSs force a lot of decisions on me. Their way
>> or the highway.
>>
>> I just took Ed Angel's WebGL Mooc and decided to make my own static
>> generator.  A single html file for all assignments. Markdown for a div that
>> explains the assignment and how to use it. A stunt that takes the markdown
>> and derives the html page title and the page banner title. And naturally a
>> canvas for webgl's use. And use of es6, modules, module loaders and lots
>> more.
>>
>> I can't see a CMS being that flexible. But site generators can be.  The
>> single html page for them is a "template", generally 3: About, Home, and
>> Pages.
>>
>>-- Owen
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 5:49 PM, Gillian Densmore > > wrote:
>>
>>> To keep the conversation going and because I suspect you're doing the
>>> Cool Book On The Coffee Table stunt:
>>>
>>> http://www.queness.com/post/16142/11-lightning-fast-flat-file-cms
>>>
>>>
>>> http://web.appstorm.net/roundups/data-management-roundups/8-fantastic-lightweight-cmses-you-should-try/
>>>
>>> Try a few and see what you like.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 10:40 AM, Gillian Densmore <
>>> gil.densm...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
 Yes and no.

 The short answer is that there are some file and folder systems out
 there.
 Kirb that was mentioned is unique in that it's (sort of) shareware,
 It's my understanding so is pulse, and and grav.

 For the most part there still in the 'for developers' stage. Where
 there are all manner of gotchas. The size of the community, and ease of
 support will very if your run into a Undocumented Feature.

 It seems as if they fall on a spectrum. On one end there's  On one end
 there's Grav, possibly Jekyll as well.
 On the other end there's October.
 Kirby, pulse and Wonder seem to be in the middle..


 http://wondercms.com/

 Its just files and folders, as far as I know just uses CSS to adjust
 it's look and feel






 On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 11:16 PM, Russell Standish <
 li...@hpcoders.com.au> wrote:

> On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 11:16:55PM -0500, Gary Schiltz wrote:
> > Hey Russell, in case it wasn’t clear, please understand that I was
> > making a joke with a (probably overly obscured) compliment. I very
> > much admire folks who use manual tools like LaTeX and Emacs, and also
> > like a lot of what I know of Australian culture. Although “Crocodile
> > Dundee” was an absurd stereotype of that culture, a lot of us
> > Americans relate to the bras