[FRIAM] [ SPAM ] Re: The Long Peace 18 min video slide show on all war deaths since Fall of Rome -- after 70 million in WWII, lower and lower to now...: Rich Murray 2016.11.06

[Steven A Smith]

Rich -

Aside from the clever presentation, the implied numbers were rather 
staggering.


I particularly liked the "negative space" argument about "the number of 
people who are not dying"... and the way it complements Steven Pinker's 
arguments in "The Better Angels of our Nature".


One might ask, "if the violence we participate in is so much lower, why 
does it seem otherwise?".


A simple and possibly misleading answer is our global media... we simply 
*hear about it more*.  I wonder what some of the other factors might be?


- Steve


On 11/6/16 11:18 PM, Rich Murray wrote:
The Long Peace 18 min video slide show on all war deaths since Fall of 
Rome -- after 70 million in WWII, lower and lower to now...: Rich 
Murray 2016.11.06


http://www.fallen.io/ww2/



FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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[FRIAM] The Long Peace 18 min video slide show on all war deaths since Fall of Rome -- after 70 million in WWII, lower and lower to now...: Rich Murray 2016.11.06

[Rich Murray]

The Long Peace 18 min video slide show on all war deaths since Fall of Rome
-- after 70 million in WWII, lower and lower to now...: Rich Murray
2016.11.06

 http://www.fallen.io/ww2/

FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

Re: [FRIAM] Trump Is Just A Normal Polling Error Behind Clinton | FiveThirtyEight

[Nick Thompson]

What are you talking about, Marcus.  Conservatives argue against the free
market all the time!  No?

 

N

 

Nicholas S. Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology

Clark University

 
http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/

 

From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of Marcus Daniels
Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2016 10:13 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group 
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Trump Is Just A Normal Polling Error Behind Clinton |
FiveThirtyEight

 

It is not inconsistent with the free market to observe that while you often
cannot change people, you can (ex)change people.   Like with those that are
eager to become citizens.   Surely conservatives would not argue against
free markets!

Sent from my iPhone


On Nov 6, 2016, at 9:37 PM, Nick Thompson  > wrote:

Dave, 

 

I think you are dead on concerning our attitude toward "the deplorables" .
We need to know more about them and be prepared to find common ground. 

 

Without taking anything away from that agreement, I want to question your
last sentences about the "elites."  As a term of contempt, it's a little
like "the deplorables".  Who exactly are these Folks.  Do I know any of
them?

 

But let's stipulate to the existence of such elites.  Let's assume for the
moment that that the people arrayed against trump are the most experienced,
well trained, members of our society.  Would it be wrong for them to have
undo influence on the train of events?  What IS your position on expertise?
Do you value it?  How do we non-experts tell when an expert is making a
mistake?  

 

Or, do you think that elites have their place, but they are making decisions
beyond their competence.  The elites might tell us the consequences of our
folly, but it is not their role to manipulate us into avoiding.  Perhaps we
are all dionysians.  Perhaps we want to go down in a fiery (nuclear war) or
watery (global warming) end.  Don't we get to choose our own fate?  

 

All the best, 

 

Nick

 

Nicholas S. Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology

Clark University

 
http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/

 

From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of Prof David West
Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2016 6:15 PM
To: friam@redfish.com  
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Trump Is Just A Normal Polling Error Behind Clinton |
FiveThirtyEight

 

If Trump were to win this election, the number one reason is the insistence
of democrats and liberals to demonize and marginalize the populace
supporting Trump.

 

If the only people that support him are "angry" racist" "xenophobic"
"out-of-work-white-men" "could-not-graduate-from-college-because-of-low-IQ"
etc. etc. he could not possibly command more than 10% of the vote.

 

Trump is a terrible person - but NOT atypical of the population in general.
Projecting his worst qualities onto the masses that support him is a huge,
hopefully fatal, strategic mistake on the part of the Clinton campaign. But
it would be simply a continuation of a fifty year trend: a small elite that
firmly believe they are the only ones capable of and deserving of running
the government and that anyone that opposes them is ignorant and dangerous.

 

davew

 

 

On Sat, Nov 5, 2016, at 12:12 PM, Frank Wimberly wrote:

My opinion: scorn is a very powerful position; you can be scornful of God.
People who feel powerless and left out find Trump appealing because they
identify with the power implied by his scorn of the elite, the
establishment, etc.  Remember Spiro Agnew calling the educated "pointy
headed intellectuals"?

In the meantime I'm very concerned with who's going to win the election.

Frank

 

Frank Wimberly

Phone (505) 670-9918

 

 

On Nov 5, 2016 12:59 PM, "Owen Densmore"  > wrote:

A quote from the article is pretty telling:

 

In America today, compared with 50 years ago, three times as many
working-age men are completely outside the work force. This pattern is
occurring throughout the developed world - and the consequences are not
merely economic. Feeling superfluous is a blow to the human spirit. It leads
to social isolation and emotional pain, and creates the conditions for
negative emotions to take root.

 

If I were one of them, I'd surely vote Trump.

 

We do need to get over "who's going to win?" and ask "why has Trump got such
a *huge* following?"

 

   -- Owen

 

On Sat, Nov 5, 2016 at 11:58 AM, Owen Densmore  > wrote:

 

On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 2:51 PM, Marcus Daniels  > wrote:

 

 

I found the article from the Dalai Lama in the NYT today fairly plausible
explanation of why 

Re: [FRIAM] Trump Is Just A Normal Polling Error Behind Clinton | FiveThirtyEight

[Steven A Smith]

Nick -

I believe one way to address your question(s) about /the elites/ is to 
decide on what we mean by /elite/.


Quoted from Wikipedia:

   *Elite* (from late 18th century French *élite*), is a term that
   originates from Latin  eligere
   (“to choose, elect”). In political
    and sociological
    theory for a small group
   of powerful people that controls a disproportionate amount of wealth
   , privilege
    or
   political power  in a
   society.

If the term /disproportionate/ says it all?  By this definition, we 
absolutely *don't* want /the/ /elites/ to have /undue influence/.


I think what you might really be asking is whether there is room for a 
(partial?) meritocracy?   Can we ever trust a minority subset of the 
population to make decisions for the majority population?


I would claim that representative democracies such as ours work (when 
and to the extent that they do) *because* we presumably select from a 
pool of dedicated, talented and informed individuals to form a 
constantly morphing meritocracy (our representatives) to make decisions 
in our collective best interests.


In the rhetoric I *think* you are referencing, it is more a question of 
populism as defined also in Wikipedia.


   *Populism* is a political ideology that holds that virtuous citizens
   are mistreated by a small circle of elites, who can be overthrown if
   the people recognize the danger and work together. Populism depicts
   elites as trampling on the rights, values, and voice of the
   legitimate people.^[1]
   

   Populist movements are found in many democratic nations. Cas Mudde
    says, "Many observers have
   noted that populism is inherent to representative democracy; after
   all, do populists not juxtapose 'the pure people' against 'the
   corrupt elite'?"^[2]
   


^


The current low popularity and distrust of our two major candidates 
suggests that generally we are failing at this model of meritocracy.  
Those /elites/ who have /disproportionate /influence in our culture ARE 
the Trumps and the Clintons, and most of us simply don't trust them.   
They have wedged us into a situation where we are challenged to trust 
*one of them* to protect our interests from the corruptions of *the 
other one*.


Trump supporters seem to almost unilaterally not trust *any* 
politicians... they tossed all of the *other* Republicans who were 
standard politicians to put Trump into the election and now they are 
rallying to put him in to displace the most experienced, most well 
prepared politician of all time to become President.   It is Hillary's 
very strong qualifications for the role that make her so threatening to 
them (and some of the rest of us).


I think the recently reference Dalai Lama article in the NYT provides 
*some* basis for compassion for those who would use Trump as their 
"Molotov Cocktail" (to reference Michael Moore)...


- Steve

On 11/6/16 9:37 PM, Nick Thompson wrote:


Dave,

I think you are dead on concerning our attitude toward “the 
deplorables” .  We need to know more about them and be prepared to 
find common ground.


Without taking anything away from that agreement, I want to question 
your last sentences about the “elites.”  As a term of contempt, it’s a 
little like “the deplorables”.  Who exactly are these Folks.  Do I 
know any of them?


But let’s stipulate to the existence of such elites.  Let’s assume for 
the moment that that the people arrayed against trump are the most 
experienced, well trained, members of our society.  Would it be wrong 
for them to have undo influence on the train of events?  What IS your 
position on expertise?  Do you value it?  How do we non-experts tell 
when an expert is making a mistake?


Or, do you think that elites have their place, but they are making 
decisions beyond their competence.  The elites might tell us the 
consequences of our folly, but it is not their role to manipulate us 
into avoiding.  Perhaps we are all dionysians.  Perhaps we want to go 
down in a fiery (nuclear war) or watery (global warming) end.  Don’t 
we get to choose our own fate?


All the best,

Nick

Nicholas S. Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology

Clark University

http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ 



*From:*Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] *On Behalf Of *Prof 
David West

*Sent:* Sunday, November 06, 2016 6:15 PM
*To:* 

Re: [FRIAM] Trump Is Just A Normal Polling Error Behind Clinton | FiveThirtyEight

[Marcus Daniels]

It is not inconsistent with the free market to observe that while you often 
cannot change people, you can (ex)change people.   Like with those that are 
eager to become citizens.   Surely conservatives would not argue against free 
markets!

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 6, 2016, at 9:37 PM, Nick Thompson 
> wrote:

Dave,

I think you are dead on concerning our attitude toward “the deplorables” .  We 
need to know more about them and be prepared to find common ground.

Without taking anything away from that agreement, I want to question your last 
sentences about the “elites.”  As a term of contempt, it’s a little like “the 
deplorables”.  Who exactly are these Folks.  Do I know any of them?

But let’s stipulate to the existence of such elites.  Let’s assume for the 
moment that that the people arrayed against trump are the most experienced, 
well trained, members of our society.  Would it be wrong for them to have undo 
influence on the train of events?  What IS your position on expertise?  Do you 
value it?  How do we non-experts tell when an expert is making a mistake?

Or, do you think that elites have their place, but they are making decisions 
beyond their competence.  The elites might tell us the consequences of our 
folly, but it is not their role to manipulate us into avoiding.  Perhaps we are 
all dionysians.  Perhaps we want to go down in a fiery (nuclear war) or watery 
(global warming) end.  Don’t we get to choose our own fate?

All the best,

Nick

Nicholas S. Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
Clark University
http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/

From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of Prof David West
Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2016 6:15 PM
To: friam@redfish.com
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Trump Is Just A Normal Polling Error Behind Clinton | 
FiveThirtyEight

If Trump were to win this election, the number one reason is the insistence of 
democrats and liberals to demonize and marginalize the populace supporting 
Trump.

If the only people that support him are "angry" racist" "xenophobic" 
"out-of-work-white-men" "could-not-graduate-from-college-because-of-low-IQ" 
etc. etc. he could not possibly command more than 10% of the vote.

Trump is a terrible person — but NOT atypical of the population in general. 
Projecting his worst qualities onto the masses that support him is a huge, 
hopefully fatal, strategic mistake on the part of the Clinton campaign. But it 
would be simply a continuation of a fifty year trend: a small elite that firmly 
believe they are the only ones capable of and deserving of running the 
government and that anyone that opposes them is ignorant and dangerous.

davew


On Sat, Nov 5, 2016, at 12:12 PM, Frank Wimberly wrote:

My opinion: scorn is a very powerful position; you can be scornful of God.  
People who feel powerless and left out find Trump appealing because they 
identify with the power implied by his scorn of the elite, the establishment, 
etc.  Remember Spiro Agnew calling the educated "pointy headed intellectuals"?

In the meantime I'm very concerned with who's going to win the election.

Frank


Frank Wimberly
Phone (505) 670-9918



On Nov 5, 2016 12:59 PM, "Owen Densmore" 
> wrote:
A quote from the article is pretty telling:

In America today, compared with 50 years ago, three times as many working-age 
men are completely outside the work force. This pattern is occurring throughout 
the developed world — and the consequences are not merely economic. Feeling 
superfluous is a blow to the human spirit. It leads to social isolation and 
emotional pain, and creates the conditions for negative emotions to take root.

If I were one of them, I'd surely vote Trump.

We do need to get over "who's going to win?" and ask "why has Trump got such a 
*huge* following?"

   -- Owen

On Sat, Nov 5, 2016 at 11:58 AM, Owen Densmore 
> wrote:

On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 2:51 PM, Marcus Daniels 
> wrote:


I found the article from the Dalai Lama in the NYT today fairly plausible 
explanation of why we have the current problem.But, I would say, no, there 
will be no brotherhood with the Bundy's.   The redistributionist approach (that 
Brooks -- libertarian -- objects to elsewhere) arises in order to give the 
possibility of free enterprise, not to preserve it for those that haven't 
realized they've simply failed to be sufficiently enterprising.


I just took a look at the article, and it certainly is interesting and puts 
into perspective why wealthy countries have a "The Sky Is Falling" syndrome.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/04/opinion/dalai-lama-behind-our-anxiety-the-fear-of-being-unneeded.html



FRIAM Applied Complexity Group 

Re: [FRIAM] Mouse issue

[Nick Thompson]

Pamela,

 

People do a lot of silly stuff when they talk about whether animals suffer, as 
if some kind of death is something that could be avoided.  But speaking as 
somebody who studied animals for 50 years, I am pretty sure that gluing a mouse 
to a board and throwing it in the garbage causes suffering.  

 

nick

 

Nicholas S. Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology

Clark University

  
http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/

 

From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of Pamela McCorduck
Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2016 6:50 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group 
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Mouse issue

 

Oh, I just paid them a lot to “seal” the house. Joe and I lived with the mice 
and removed him with ways animal rights people would not approve of, but we 
didn’t need professionals. (Lots of activated charcoal bags to keep the smell 
down as putrefying mice had died where their corpses couldn’t be got at.) 

 

Animal rightists: I have my space; they have theirs. I am not the least ashamed 
of keeping those boundaries clear. Yes, in the very old days, I used mousing 
cats. Better?

 

 

On Nov 6, 2016, at 3:28 PM, Tom Johnson  > wrote:

 

We are having the same problem.  Supposedly Critter Control "sealed" the house. 
 Huh?  Yeah, the joke's on us.  So far I've resorted to buying quantities of 
traps from Amazon.  See 
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01CH01PA4/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8
 

 =1

 

TJ






Tom Johnson
Institute for Analytic Journalism   -- Santa Fe, NM USA
505.577.6482(c)505.473.9646(h)
Society of Professional Journalists   
Check out It's The People's Data 
 

http://www.jtjohnson.com 
t...@jtjohnson.com  


 

On Sun, Nov 6, 2016 at 11:09 AM, Gillian Densmore  > wrote:

I have a problem that I need help solving.

 

Mice.

 

History: About 8-9 days ago I found out I have a mouse problem. I tried calling 
the city's pest controll to evict them before matters got worse. They told me 
they don't deel with mice.

 

Problems: I can only guess just how bad the problem is. But it's safe to guess 
they're in the walls and or pipes someplace, because i've  thumped at least 4 
possibly 5 the upstairs bathroom wich is...problematic at best.

 

Also It turns out I have a small feer of mice leading to rambling incorehently 
on the phone to fam about the fuckers, a issue I am trying to resolve as best I 
can. Thank god for having some vallium on hand and some martial arts experience 
to stay calmER so that instead of pestering fam like calling them at 8pm on a 
Thursday to bich about them starting with Oh fuck their's a mouse and it's in 
my very nice and expensive tea, and it's friends are trying to go foraging on 
the kitchen table (Even though it was cleaned with bleach) 

 

I think what set me on tilte more than usual was trying to do some of the PT 
excersizes getting up and finding out calmly waching me looking both interested 
and perplexed--then going to bed for and finding a different one on my bed 
munching on something looking at me like he/she owned the house. I'm sure my 
rant and and the hell do I do I asked dad about will go down in history 
eventually.

 

Question: What steps can I take in addition to take convince them the fams 
casita is deadly. 

 

So far I've put out easly 20 unique claptraps. The traditional kind.  With help 
from my friend sabina we started on  massive spring cleaning that was probably 
over do anyway.

I keep running out of traps to put out. Between being pretting sure it's not 
getting to the root of the problem and running out clap traps.

I have no clue what else can be done:

What else can be done?

 

 

 

 



FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

 


FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

 


FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at 

Re: [FRIAM] Trump Is Just A Normal Polling Error Behind Clinton | FiveThirtyEight

[Nick Thompson]

Dave, 

 

I think you are dead on concerning our attitude toward “the deplorables” .  We 
need to know more about them and be prepared to find common ground. 

 

Without taking anything away from that agreement, I want to question your last 
sentences about the “elites.”  As a term of contempt, it’s a little like “the 
deplorables”.  Who exactly are these Folks.  Do I know any of them?

 

But let’s stipulate to the existence of such elites.  Let’s assume for the 
moment that that the people arrayed against trump are the most experienced, 
well trained, members of our society.  Would it be wrong for them to have undo 
influence on the train of events?  What IS your position on expertise?  Do you 
value it?  How do we non-experts tell when an expert is making a mistake?  

 

Or, do you think that elites have their place, but they are making decisions 
beyond their competence.  The elites might tell us the consequences of our 
folly, but it is not their role to manipulate us into avoiding.  Perhaps we are 
all dionysians.  Perhaps we want to go down in a fiery (nuclear war) or watery 
(global warming) end.  Don’t we get to choose our own fate?  

 

All the best, 

 

Nick

 

Nicholas S. Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology

Clark University

  
http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/

 

From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of Prof David West
Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2016 6:15 PM
To: friam@redfish.com
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Trump Is Just A Normal Polling Error Behind Clinton | 
FiveThirtyEight

 

If Trump were to win this election, the number one reason is the insistence of 
democrats and liberals to demonize and marginalize the populace supporting 
Trump.

 

If the only people that support him are "angry" racist" "xenophobic" 
"out-of-work-white-men" "could-not-graduate-from-college-because-of-low-IQ" 
etc. etc. he could not possibly command more than 10% of the vote.

 

Trump is a terrible person — but NOT atypical of the population in general. 
Projecting his worst qualities onto the masses that support him is a huge, 
hopefully fatal, strategic mistake on the part of the Clinton campaign. But it 
would be simply a continuation of a fifty year trend: a small elite that firmly 
believe they are the only ones capable of and deserving of running the 
government and that anyone that opposes them is ignorant and dangerous.

 

davew

 

 

On Sat, Nov 5, 2016, at 12:12 PM, Frank Wimberly wrote:

My opinion: scorn is a very powerful position; you can be scornful of God.  
People who feel powerless and left out find Trump appealing because they 
identify with the power implied by his scorn of the elite, the establishment, 
etc.  Remember Spiro Agnew calling the educated "pointy headed intellectuals"?

In the meantime I'm very concerned with who's going to win the election.

Frank

 

Frank Wimberly

Phone (505) 670-9918

 

 

On Nov 5, 2016 12:59 PM, "Owen Densmore"  > wrote:

A quote from the article is pretty telling:

 

In America today, compared with 50 years ago, three times as many working-age 
men are completely outside the work force. This pattern is occurring throughout 
the developed world — and the consequences are not merely economic. Feeling 
superfluous is a blow to the human spirit. It leads to social isolation and 
emotional pain, and creates the conditions for negative emotions to take root.

 

If I were one of them, I'd surely vote Trump.

 

We do need to get over "who's going to win?" and ask "why has Trump got such a 
*huge* following?"

 

   -- Owen

 

On Sat, Nov 5, 2016 at 11:58 AM, Owen Densmore  > wrote:

 

On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 2:51 PM, Marcus Daniels  > wrote:

 

 

I found the article from the Dalai Lama in the NYT today fairly plausible 
explanation of why we have the current problem.But, I would say, no, there 
will be no brotherhood with the Bundy's.   The redistributionist approach (that 
Brooks -- libertarian -- objects to elsewhere) arises in order to give the 
possibility of free enterprise, not to preserve it for those that haven't 
realized they've simply failed to be sufficiently enterprising.

 

 

I just took a look at the article, and it certainly is interesting and puts 
into perspective why wealthy countries have a "The Sky Is Falling" syndrome.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/04/opinion/dalai-lama-behind-our-anxiety-the-fear-of-being-unneeded.html
 

 

 



FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv

Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College

to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

Re: [FRIAM] Trump Is Just A Normal Polling Error Behind Clinton | FiveThirtyEight

[Marcus Daniels]

"Projecting his worst qualities onto the masses that support him is a huge, 
hopefully fatal, strategic mistake on the part of the Clinton campaign."


Personally, I already had decided what I thought of them 30 years before Donald 
found a way to work them up.   And it wouldn't matter one bit to me whether 
they represent 10% or 90% of the population.   I've experienced living in rural 
community where it was effectively the latter.


From: Friam  on behalf of Prof David West 

Sent: Sunday, November 6, 2016 6:15:20 PM
To: friam@redfish.com
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Trump Is Just A Normal Polling Error Behind Clinton | 
FiveThirtyEight

If Trump were to win this election, the number one reason is the insistence of 
democrats and liberals to demonize and marginalize the populace supporting 
Trump.

If the only people that support him are "angry" racist" "xenophobic" 
"out-of-work-white-men" "could-not-graduate-from-college-because-of-low-IQ" 
etc. etc. he could not possibly command more than 10% of the vote.

Trump is a terrible person — but NOT atypical of the population in general. 
Projecting his worst qualities onto the masses that support him is a huge, 
hopefully fatal, strategic mistake on the part of the Clinton campaign. But it 
would be simply a continuation of a fifty year trend: a small elite that firmly 
believe they are the only ones capable of and deserving of running the 
government and that anyone that opposes them is ignorant and dangerous.

davew


On Sat, Nov 5, 2016, at 12:12 PM, Frank Wimberly wrote:

My opinion: scorn is a very powerful position; you can be scornful of God.  
People who feel powerless and left out find Trump appealing because they 
identify with the power implied by his scorn of the elite, the establishment, 
etc.  Remember Spiro Agnew calling the educated "pointy headed intellectuals"?

In the meantime I'm very concerned with who's going to win the election.

Frank


Frank Wimberly
Phone (505) 670-9918


On Nov 5, 2016 12:59 PM, "Owen Densmore" 
> wrote:
A quote from the article is pretty telling:

In America today, compared with 50 years ago, three times as many working-age 
men are completely outside the work force. This pattern is occurring throughout 
the developed world — and the consequences are not merely economic. Feeling 
superfluous is a blow to the human spirit. It leads to social isolation and 
emotional pain, and creates the conditions for negative emotions to take root.

If I were one of them, I'd surely vote Trump.

We do need to get over "who's going to win?" and ask "why has Trump got such a 
*huge* following?"

   -- Owen

On Sat, Nov 5, 2016 at 11:58 AM, Owen Densmore 
> wrote:

On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 2:51 PM, Marcus Daniels 
> wrote:


I found the article from the Dalai Lama in the NYT today fairly plausible 
explanation of why we have the current problem.But, I would say, no, there 
will be no brotherhood with the Bundy's.   The redistributionist approach (that 
Brooks -- libertarian -- objects to elsewhere) arises in order to give the 
possibility of free enterprise, not to preserve it for those that haven't 
realized they've simply failed to be sufficiently enterprising.


I just took a look at the article, and it certainly is interesting and puts 
into perspective why wealthy countries have a "The Sky Is Falling" syndrome.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/04/opinion/dalai-lama-behind-our-anxiety-the-fear-of-being-unneeded.html



FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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Re: [FRIAM] Mouse issue

[Joe Spinden]

Someone I knew who grew up on a farm in North Dakota told me they did 
not name cats because they were just "pest control".




On 11/6/16 6:56 PM, Pamela McCorduck wrote:

OMG, removed THEM


On Nov 6, 2016, at 6:49 PM, Pamela McCorduck > wrote:


Oh, I just paid them a lot to “seal” the house. Joe and I lived with 
the mice and removed him with ways animal rights people would not 
approve of, but we didn’t need professionals. (Lots of activated 
charcoal bags to keep the smell down as putrefying mice had died 
where their corpses couldn’t be got at.)


Animal rightists: I have my space; they have theirs. I am not the 
least ashamed of keeping those boundaries clear. Yes, in the very old 
days, I used mousing cats. Better?



On Nov 6, 2016, at 3:28 PM, Tom Johnson > wrote:


We are having the same problem.  Supposedly Critter Control "sealed" 
the house.  Huh?  Yeah, the joke's on us.  So far I've resorted to 
buying quantities of traps from Amazon.  See 
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01CH01PA4/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8=1 



TJ



Tom Johnson
Institute for Analytic Journalism   -- Santa Fe, NM USA
505.577.6482(c) 505.473.9646(h)
Society of Professional Journalists 
*Check out It's The People's Data 
*
http://www.jtjohnson.com  
t...@jtjohnson.com 



On Sun, Nov 6, 2016 at 11:09 AM, Gillian Densmore 
> wrote:


I have a problem that I need help solving.

Mice.

History: About 8-9 days ago I found out I have a mouse problem.
I tried calling the city's pest controll to evict them before
matters got worse. They told me they don't deel with mice.

Problems: I can only guess just how bad the problem is. But it's
safe to guess they're in the walls and or pipes someplace,
because i've  thumped at least 4 possibly 5 the upstairs
bathroom wich is...problematic at best.

Also It turns out I have a small feer of mice leading to
rambling incorehently on the phone to fam about the fuckers, a
issue I am trying to resolve as best I can. Thank god for having
some vallium on hand and some martial arts experience to stay
calmER so that instead of pestering fam like calling them at 8pm
on a Thursday to bich about them starting with Oh fuck their's a
mouse and it's in my very nice and expensive tea, and it's
friends are trying to go foraging on the kitchen table (Even
though it was cleaned with bleach)

I think what set me on tilte more than usual was trying to do
some of the PT excersizes getting up and finding out calmly
waching me looking both interested and perplexed--then going to
bed for and finding a different one on my bed munching on
something looking at me like he/she owned the house. I'm sure my
rant and and the hell do I do I asked dad about will go down in
history eventually.

Question: What steps can I take in addition to take convince
them the fams casita is deadly.

So far I've put out easly 20 unique claptraps. The traditional
kind.  With help from my friend sabina we started on  massive
spring cleaning that was probably over do anyway.
I keep running out of traps to put out. Between being pretting
sure it's not getting to the root of the problem and running out
clap traps.
I have no clue what else can be done:
What else can be done?






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Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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 by Dr. Strangelove



FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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Re: [FRIAM] Trump Is Just A Normal Polling Error Behind Clinton | FiveThirtyEight

[Russ Abbott]

It's based on BetFair a betting site in the UK. US citizens can't use it.

On Sun, Nov 6, 2016 at 5:19 PM Frank Wimberly  wrote:

> This is updated every 10 minutes so it reflects some reaction to today's
> new FBI letter to Congress:
>
> https://electionbettingodds.com/
>
> Frank
>
> Frank Wimberly
> Phone (505) 670-9918
>
> On Nov 6, 2016 6:15 PM, "Prof David West"  wrote:
>
> If Trump were to win this election, the number one reason is the
> insistence of democrats and liberals to demonize and marginalize the
> populace supporting Trump.
>
> If the only people that support him are "angry" racist" "xenophobic"
> "out-of-work-white-men" "could-not-graduate-from-college-because-of-low-IQ"
> etc. etc. he could not possibly command more than 10% of the vote.
>
> Trump is a terrible person — but NOT atypical of the population in
> general. Projecting his worst qualities onto the masses that support him is
> a huge, hopefully fatal, strategic mistake on the part of the Clinton
> campaign. But it would be simply a continuation of a fifty year trend: a
> small elite that firmly believe they are the only ones capable of and
> deserving of running the government and that anyone that opposes them is
> ignorant and dangerous.
>
> davew
>
>
> On Sat, Nov 5, 2016, at 12:12 PM, Frank Wimberly wrote:
>
> My opinion: scorn is a very powerful position; you can be scornful of
> God.  People who feel powerless and left out find Trump appealing because
> they identify with the power implied by his scorn of the elite, the
> establishment, etc.  Remember Spiro Agnew calling the educated "pointy
> headed intellectuals"?
>
> In the meantime I'm very concerned with who's going to win the election.
>
> Frank
>
>
> Frank Wimberly
> Phone (505) 670-9918
>
>
>
> On Nov 5, 2016 12:59 PM, "Owen Densmore"  wrote:
>
> A quote from the article is pretty telling:
>
> In America today, compared with 50 years ago, three times as many
> working-age men are completely outside the work force. This pattern is
> occurring throughout the developed world — and the consequences are not
> merely economic. Feeling superfluous is a blow to the human spirit. It
> leads to social isolation and emotional pain, and creates the conditions
> for negative emotions to take root.
>
>
> If I were one of them, I'd surely vote Trump.
>
> We do need to get over "who's going to win?" and ask "why has Trump got
> such a *huge* following?"
>
>-- Owen
>
> On Sat, Nov 5, 2016 at 11:58 AM, Owen Densmore 
> wrote:
>
>
> On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 2:51 PM, Marcus Daniels 
> wrote:
>
>
> I found the article from the Dalai Lama in the NYT today fairly plausible
> explanation of why we have the current problem.But, I would say, no,
> there will be no brotherhood with the Bundy's.   The redistributionist
> approach (that Brooks -- libertarian -- objects to elsewhere) arises in
> order to give the possibility of free enterprise, not to preserve it for
> those that haven't realized they've simply failed to be sufficiently
> enterprising.
>
>
>
> I just took a look at the article, and it certainly is interesting and
> puts into perspective why wealthy countries have a "The Sky Is Falling"
> syndrome.
>
>
> http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/04/opinion/dalai-lama-behind-our-anxiety-the-fear-of-being-unneeded.html
>
>
>
>
> 
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
>
> 
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
>
>
>
> 
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
>
> 
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

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Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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Re: [FRIAM] Trump Is Just A Normal Polling Error Behind Clinton | FiveThirtyEight

[Frank Wimberly]

This is updated every 10 minutes so it reflects some reaction to today's
new FBI letter to Congress:

https://electionbettingodds.com/

Frank

Frank Wimberly
Phone (505) 670-9918

On Nov 6, 2016 6:15 PM, "Prof David West"  wrote:

> If Trump were to win this election, the number one reason is the
> insistence of democrats and liberals to demonize and marginalize the
> populace supporting Trump.
>
> If the only people that support him are "angry" racist" "xenophobic"
> "out-of-work-white-men" "could-not-graduate-from-college-because-of-low-IQ"
> etc. etc. he could not possibly command more than 10% of the vote.
>
> Trump is a terrible person — but NOT atypical of the population in
> general. Projecting his worst qualities onto the masses that support him is
> a huge, hopefully fatal, strategic mistake on the part of the Clinton
> campaign. But it would be simply a continuation of a fifty year trend: a
> small elite that firmly believe they are the only ones capable of and
> deserving of running the government and that anyone that opposes them is
> ignorant and dangerous.
>
> davew
>
>
> On Sat, Nov 5, 2016, at 12:12 PM, Frank Wimberly wrote:
>
> My opinion: scorn is a very powerful position; you can be scornful of
> God.  People who feel powerless and left out find Trump appealing because
> they identify with the power implied by his scorn of the elite, the
> establishment, etc.  Remember Spiro Agnew calling the educated "pointy
> headed intellectuals"?
>
> In the meantime I'm very concerned with who's going to win the election.
>
> Frank
>
>
> Frank Wimberly
> Phone (505) 670-9918
>
>
>
> On Nov 5, 2016 12:59 PM, "Owen Densmore"  wrote:
>
> A quote from the article is pretty telling:
>
> In America today, compared with 50 years ago, three times as many
> working-age men are completely outside the work force. This pattern is
> occurring throughout the developed world — and the consequences are not
> merely economic. Feeling superfluous is a blow to the human spirit. It
> leads to social isolation and emotional pain, and creates the conditions
> for negative emotions to take root.
>
>
> If I were one of them, I'd surely vote Trump.
>
> We do need to get over "who's going to win?" and ask "why has Trump got
> such a *huge* following?"
>
>-- Owen
>
> On Sat, Nov 5, 2016 at 11:58 AM, Owen Densmore 
> wrote:
>
>
> On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 2:51 PM, Marcus Daniels 
> wrote:
>
>
> I found the article from the Dalai Lama in the NYT today fairly plausible
> explanation of why we have the current problem.But, I would say, no,
> there will be no brotherhood with the Bundy's.   The redistributionist
> approach (that Brooks -- libertarian -- objects to elsewhere) arises in
> order to give the possibility of free enterprise, not to preserve it for
> those that haven't realized they've simply failed to be sufficiently
> enterprising.
>
>
>
> I just took a look at the article, and it certainly is interesting and
> puts into perspective why wealthy countries have a "The Sky Is Falling"
> syndrome.
>
> http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/04/opinion/dalai-lama-behind-
> our-anxiety-the-fear-of-being-unneeded.html
>
>
>
> 
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
>
> 
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
>
>
>
> 
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
>

FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

Re: [FRIAM] Trump Is Just A Normal Polling Error Behind Clinton | FiveThirtyEight

[Prof David West]

If Trump were to win this election, the number one reason is the
insistence of democrats and liberals to demonize and marginalize the
populace supporting Trump.

If the only people that support him are "angry" racist" "xenophobic" 
"out-of-work-white-
men" "could-not-graduate-from-college-because-of-low-IQ" etc. etc. he
could not possibly command more than 10% of the vote.

Trump is a terrible person — but NOT atypical of the population in
general. Projecting his worst qualities onto the masses that support him
is a huge, hopefully fatal, strategic mistake on the part of the Clinton
campaign. But it would be simply a continuation of a fifty year trend: a
small elite that firmly believe they are the only ones capable of and
deserving of running the government and that anyone that opposes them is
ignorant and dangerous.

davew


On Sat, Nov 5, 2016, at 12:12 PM, Frank Wimberly wrote:
> My opinion: scorn is a very powerful position; you can be scornful of
> God.  People who feel powerless and left out find Trump appealing
> because they identify with the power implied by his scorn of the
> elite, the establishment, etc.  Remember Spiro Agnew calling the
> educated "pointy headed intellectuals"?
> In the meantime I'm very concerned with who's going to win the
> election.
> Frank
>
> Frank Wimberly
> Phone (505) 670-9918
>
>
> On Nov 5, 2016 12:59 PM, "Owen Densmore"  wrote:
>> A quote from the article is pretty telling:
>>
>>> In America today, compared with 50 years ago, three times as many
>>> working-age men are completely outside the work force. This pattern
>>> is occurring throughout the developed world — and the consequences
>>> are not merely economic. Feeling superfluous is a blow to the human
>>> spirit. It leads to social isolation and emotional pain, and creates
>>> the conditions for negative emotions to take root.
>>
>> If I were one of them, I'd surely vote Trump.
>>
>> We do need to get over "who's going to win?" and ask "why has Trump
>> got such a *huge* following?"
>>
>>-- Owen
>>
>> On Sat, Nov 5, 2016 at 11:58 AM, Owen Densmore
>>  wrote:
>>>
>>> On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 2:51 PM, Marcus Daniels
>>>  wrote:
>>>
>>>
 I found the article from the Dalai Lama in the NYT today fairly
 plausible explanation of why we have the current problem.But, I
 would say, no, there will be no brotherhood with the Bundy's.   The
 redistributionist approach (that Brooks -- libertarian -- objects
 to elsewhere) arises in order to give the possibility of free
 enterprise, not to preserve it for those that haven't realized
 they've simply failed to be sufficiently enterprising.
>>>
>>>
>>> I just took a look at the article, and it certainly is interesting
>>> and puts into perspective why wealthy countries have a "The Sky Is
>>> Falling" syndrome.
>>>
>>> http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/04/opinion/dalai-lama-behind-our-anxiety-the-fear-of-being-unneeded.html
>>
>>
>> 
>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
>> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
> 
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

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Re: [FRIAM] Mouse issue

[Pamela McCorduck]

OMG, removed THEM


> On Nov 6, 2016, at 6:49 PM, Pamela McCorduck  wrote:
> 
> Oh, I just paid them a lot to “seal” the house. Joe and I lived with the mice 
> and removed him with ways animal rights people would not approve of, but we 
> didn’t need professionals. (Lots of activated charcoal bags to keep the smell 
> down as putrefying mice had died where their corpses couldn’t be got at.) 
> 
> Animal rightists: I have my space; they have theirs. I am not the least 
> ashamed of keeping those boundaries clear. Yes, in the very old days, I used 
> mousing cats. Better?
> 
> 
>> On Nov 6, 2016, at 3:28 PM, Tom Johnson > > wrote:
>> 
>> We are having the same problem.  Supposedly Critter Control "sealed" the 
>> house.  Huh?  Yeah, the joke's on us.  So far I've resorted to buying 
>> quantities of traps from Amazon.  See 
>> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01CH01PA4/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8=1
>>  
>> 
>> 
>> TJ
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Tom Johnson
>> Institute for Analytic Journalism   -- Santa Fe, NM USA
>> 505.577.6482(c)505.473.9646(h)
>> Society of Professional Journalists  
>> Check out It's The People's Data 
>> 
>> http://www.jtjohnson.com    
>> t...@jtjohnson.com 
>> 
>> 
>> On Sun, Nov 6, 2016 at 11:09 AM, Gillian Densmore > > wrote:
>> I have a problem that I need help solving.
>> 
>> Mice.
>> 
>> History: About 8-9 days ago I found out I have a mouse problem. I tried 
>> calling the city's pest controll to evict them before matters got worse. 
>> They told me they don't deel with mice.
>> 
>> Problems: I can only guess just how bad the problem is. But it's safe to 
>> guess they're in the walls and or pipes someplace, because i've  thumped at 
>> least 4 possibly 5 the upstairs bathroom wich is...problematic at best.
>> 
>> Also It turns out I have a small feer of mice leading to rambling 
>> incorehently on the phone to fam about the fuckers, a issue I am trying to 
>> resolve as best I can. Thank god for having some vallium on hand and some 
>> martial arts experience to stay calmER so that instead of pestering fam like 
>> calling them at 8pm on a Thursday to bich about them starting with Oh fuck 
>> their's a mouse and it's in my very nice and expensive tea, and it's friends 
>> are trying to go foraging on the kitchen table (Even though it was cleaned 
>> with bleach) 
>> 
>> I think what set me on tilte more than usual was trying to do some of the PT 
>> excersizes getting up and finding out calmly waching me looking both 
>> interested and perplexed--then going to bed for and finding a different one 
>> on my bed munching on something looking at me like he/she owned the house. 
>> I'm sure my rant and and the hell do I do I asked dad about will go down in 
>> history eventually.
>> 
>> Question: What steps can I take in addition to take convince them the fams 
>> casita is deadly. 
>> 
>> So far I've put out easly 20 unique claptraps. The traditional kind.  With 
>> help from my friend sabina we started on  massive spring cleaning that was 
>> probably over do anyway.
>> I keep running out of traps to put out. Between being pretting sure it's not 
>> getting to the root of the problem and running out clap traps.
>> I have no clue what else can be done:
>> What else can be done?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
>> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com 
>> 
>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ 
>>  by Dr. Strangelove
>> 
>> 
>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
>> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com 
>> 
>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ 
>>  by Dr. Strangelove
> 
> 
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove


FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets 

Re: [FRIAM] Mouse issue

[Pamela McCorduck]

Oh, I just paid them a lot to “seal” the house. Joe and I lived with the mice 
and removed him with ways animal rights people would not approve of, but we 
didn’t need professionals. (Lots of activated charcoal bags to keep the smell 
down as putrefying mice had died where their corpses couldn’t be got at.) 

Animal rightists: I have my space; they have theirs. I am not the least ashamed 
of keeping those boundaries clear. Yes, in the very old days, I used mousing 
cats. Better?


> On Nov 6, 2016, at 3:28 PM, Tom Johnson  wrote:
> 
> We are having the same problem.  Supposedly Critter Control "sealed" the 
> house.  Huh?  Yeah, the joke's on us.  So far I've resorted to buying 
> quantities of traps from Amazon.  See 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01CH01PA4/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8=1
>  
> 
> 
> TJ
> 
> 
> 
> Tom Johnson
> Institute for Analytic Journalism   -- Santa Fe, NM USA
> 505.577.6482(c)505.473.9646(h)
> Society of Professional Journalists  
> Check out It's The People's Data 
> 
> http://www.jtjohnson.com    
> t...@jtjohnson.com 
> 
> 
> On Sun, Nov 6, 2016 at 11:09 AM, Gillian Densmore  > wrote:
> I have a problem that I need help solving.
> 
> Mice.
> 
> History: About 8-9 days ago I found out I have a mouse problem. I tried 
> calling the city's pest controll to evict them before matters got worse. They 
> told me they don't deel with mice.
> 
> Problems: I can only guess just how bad the problem is. But it's safe to 
> guess they're in the walls and or pipes someplace, because i've  thumped at 
> least 4 possibly 5 the upstairs bathroom wich is...problematic at best.
> 
> Also It turns out I have a small feer of mice leading to rambling 
> incorehently on the phone to fam about the fuckers, a issue I am trying to 
> resolve as best I can. Thank god for having some vallium on hand and some 
> martial arts experience to stay calmER so that instead of pestering fam like 
> calling them at 8pm on a Thursday to bich about them starting with Oh fuck 
> their's a mouse and it's in my very nice and expensive tea, and it's friends 
> are trying to go foraging on the kitchen table (Even though it was cleaned 
> with bleach) 
> 
> I think what set me on tilte more than usual was trying to do some of the PT 
> excersizes getting up and finding out calmly waching me looking both 
> interested and perplexed--then going to bed for and finding a different one 
> on my bed munching on something looking at me like he/she owned the house. 
> I'm sure my rant and and the hell do I do I asked dad about will go down in 
> history eventually.
> 
> Question: What steps can I take in addition to take convince them the fams 
> casita is deadly. 
> 
> So far I've put out easly 20 unique claptraps. The traditional kind.  With 
> help from my friend sabina we started on  massive spring cleaning that was 
> probably over do anyway.
> I keep running out of traps to put out. Between being pretting sure it's not 
> getting to the root of the problem and running out clap traps.
> I have no clue what else can be done:
> What else can be done?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com 
> 
> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ 
>  by Dr. Strangelove
> 
> 
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove


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Re: [FRIAM] Mouse issue

[George Duncan]

I solved my mice problem using four ultrasonic mice repellents from Amazon. 
There are a variety of brands available. 

George Duncan
Emeritus Professor of Statistics
Carnegie  Mellon  University  
GeorgeDuncanART.com

> On Nov 6, 2016, at 3:28 PM, Tom Johnson  wrote:
> 
> We are having the same problem.  Supposedly Critter Control "sealed" the 
> house.  Huh?  Yeah, the joke's on us.  So far I've resorted to buying 
> quantities of traps from Amazon.  See 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01CH01PA4/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8=1
> 
> TJ
> 
> 
> 
> Tom Johnson
> Institute for Analytic Journalism   -- Santa Fe, NM USA
> 505.577.6482(c)505.473.9646(h)
> Society of Professional Journalists 
> Check out It's The People's Data
> http://www.jtjohnson.com   t...@jtjohnson.com
> 
> 
>> On Sun, Nov 6, 2016 at 11:09 AM, Gillian Densmore  
>> wrote:
>> I have a problem that I need help solving.
>> 
>> Mice.
>> 
>> History: About 8-9 days ago I found out I have a mouse problem. I tried 
>> calling the city's pest controll to evict them before matters got worse. 
>> They told me they don't deel with mice.
>> 
>> Problems: I can only guess just how bad the problem is. But it's safe to 
>> guess they're in the walls and or pipes someplace, because i've  thumped at 
>> least 4 possibly 5 the upstairs bathroom wich is...problematic at best.
>> 
>> Also It turns out I have a small feer of mice leading to rambling 
>> incorehently on the phone to fam about the fuckers, a issue I am trying to 
>> resolve as best I can. Thank god for having some vallium on hand and some 
>> martial arts experience to stay calmER so that instead of pestering fam like 
>> calling them at 8pm on a Thursday to bich about them starting with Oh fuck 
>> their's a mouse and it's in my very nice and expensive tea, and it's friends 
>> are trying to go foraging on the kitchen table (Even though it was cleaned 
>> with bleach) 
>> 
>> I think what set me on tilte more than usual was trying to do some of the PT 
>> excersizes getting up and finding out calmly waching me looking both 
>> interested and perplexed--then going to bed for and finding a different one 
>> on my bed munching on something looking at me like he/she owned the house. 
>> I'm sure my rant and and the hell do I do I asked dad about will go down in 
>> history eventually.
>> 
>> Question: What steps can I take in addition to take convince them the fams 
>> casita is deadly. 
>> 
>> So far I've put out easly 20 unique claptraps. The traditional kind.  With 
>> help from my friend sabina we started on  massive spring cleaning that was 
>> probably over do anyway.
>> I keep running out of traps to put out. Between being pretting sure it's not 
>> getting to the root of the problem and running out clap traps.
>> I have no clue what else can be done:
>> What else can be done?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
>> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
> 
> 
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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Re: [FRIAM] Mouse issue

[Nick Thompson]

I dunno, folks.  Requiring a mouse to die of starvation thirst, or slow 
suffocation while its feet are glued to a piece of cardboard seriously does my 
animal rights, thing. And I am an enthusiastic meat eater.   Talk about 
restless leg syndrome.  Drowning would be better.  Best would be to have the 
courage to hit it with a hammer.  

 

Or use spring traps.  Bait UNSET traps with peanut butter for a few days to 
establish contact with the mice.  Make sure they are taking the peanut butter.  
Then, one night set all the traps.  If you are squeamish, give yourself the 
dispensation to throw the caught mouse and trap together into the garbage and 
buy another trap.  I gave myself that dispensation for my 70th birthday.  Tom, 
do you ever leave your doors open in nice weather?  I think our mice got in 
during the lovely fall weather and liked it so much they decided to stay.  

 

N

 

Nicholas S. Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology

Clark University

  
http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/

 

From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of Frank Wimberly
Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2016 3:34 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group 
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Mouse issue

 

I've had good luck with sticky traps.  The only problem is that you have to 
throw a live mouse into the garbage can.  But we've only had about 4 mice in 17 
years.

Frank

Frank Wimberly
Phone (505) 670-9918

 

On Nov 6, 2016 3:28 PM, "Tom Johnson"  > wrote:

We are having the same problem.  Supposedly Critter Control "sealed" the house. 
 Huh?  Yeah, the joke's on us.  So far I've resorted to buying quantities of 
traps from Amazon.  See 
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01CH01PA4/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8
 

 =1

 

TJ






Tom Johnson
Institute for Analytic Journalism   -- Santa Fe, NM USA
505.577.6482  (c)
505.473.9646  (h)
Society of Professional Journalists   
Check out It's The People's Data 
 

http://www.jtjohnson.com 
t...@jtjohnson.com  


 

On Sun, Nov 6, 2016 at 11:09 AM, Gillian Densmore  > wrote:

I have a problem that I need help solving.

 

Mice.

 

History: About 8-9 days ago I found out I have a mouse problem. I tried calling 
the city's pest controll to evict them before matters got worse. They told me 
they don't deel with mice.

 

Problems: I can only guess just how bad the problem is. But it's safe to guess 
they're in the walls and or pipes someplace, because i've  thumped at least 4 
possibly 5 the upstairs bathroom wich is...problematic at best.

 

Also It turns out I have a small feer of mice leading to rambling incorehently 
on the phone to fam about the fuckers, a issue I am trying to resolve as best I 
can. Thank god for having some vallium on hand and some martial arts experience 
to stay calmER so that instead of pestering fam like calling them at 8pm on a 
Thursday to bich about them starting with Oh fuck their's a mouse and it's in 
my very nice and expensive tea, and it's friends are trying to go foraging on 
the kitchen table (Even though it was cleaned with bleach) 

 

I think what set me on tilte more than usual was trying to do some of the PT 
excersizes getting up and finding out calmly waching me looking both interested 
and perplexed--then going to bed for and finding a different one on my bed 
munching on something looking at me like he/she owned the house. I'm sure my 
rant and and the hell do I do I asked dad about will go down in history 
eventually.

 

Question: What steps can I take in addition to take convince them the fams 
casita is deadly. 

 

So far I've put out easly 20 unique claptraps. The traditional kind.  With help 
from my friend sabina we started on  massive spring cleaning that was probably 
over do anyway.

I keep running out of traps to put out. Between being pretting sure it's not 
getting to the root of the problem and running out clap traps.

I have no clue what else can be done:

What else can be done?

 

 

 

 



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FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at 

Re: [FRIAM] Mouse issue

[Frank Wimberly]

I've had good luck with sticky traps.  The only problem is that you have to
throw a live mouse into the garbage can.  But we've only had about 4 mice
in 17 years.

Frank

Frank Wimberly
Phone (505) 670-9918

On Nov 6, 2016 3:28 PM, "Tom Johnson"  wrote:

> We are having the same problem.  Supposedly Critter Control "sealed" the
> house.  Huh?  Yeah, the joke's on us.  So far I've resorted to buying
> quantities of traps from Amazon.  See https://www.amazon.com/gp/
> product/B01CH01PA4/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8=1
>
> TJ
>
>
> 
> Tom Johnson
> Institute for Analytic Journalism   -- Santa Fe, NM USA
> 505.577.6482(c)505.473.9646(h)
> Society of Professional Journalists 
> *Check out It's The People's Data
> *
> http://www.jtjohnson.com   t...@jtjohnson.com
> 
>
> On Sun, Nov 6, 2016 at 11:09 AM, Gillian Densmore 
> wrote:
>
>> I have a problem that I need help solving.
>>
>> Mice.
>>
>> History: About 8-9 days ago I found out I have a mouse problem. I tried
>> calling the city's pest controll to evict them before matters got worse.
>> They told me they don't deel with mice.
>>
>> Problems: I can only guess just how bad the problem is. But it's safe to
>> guess they're in the walls and or pipes someplace, because i've  thumped at
>> least 4 possibly 5 the upstairs bathroom wich is...problematic at best.
>>
>> Also It turns out I have a small feer of mice leading to rambling
>> incorehently on the phone to fam about the fuckers, a issue I am trying to
>> resolve as best I can. Thank god for having some vallium on hand and some
>> martial arts experience to stay calmER so that instead of pestering fam
>> like calling them at 8pm on a Thursday to bich about them starting with Oh
>> fuck their's a mouse and it's in my very nice and expensive tea, and it's
>> friends are trying to go foraging on the kitchen table (Even though it was
>> cleaned with bleach)
>>
>> I think what set me on tilte more than usual was trying to do some of the
>> PT excersizes getting up and finding out calmly waching me looking both
>> interested and perplexed--then going to bed for and finding a different one
>> on my bed munching on something looking at me like he/she owned the house.
>> I'm sure my rant and and the hell do I do I asked dad about will go down in
>> history eventually.
>>
>> Question: What steps can I take in addition to take convince them the
>> fams casita is deadly.
>>
>> So far I've put out easly 20 unique claptraps. The traditional kind.
>> With help from my friend sabina we started on  massive spring cleaning that
>> was probably over do anyway.
>> I keep running out of traps to put out. Between being pretting sure it's
>> not getting to the root of the problem and running out clap traps.
>> I have no clue what else can be done:
>> What else can be done?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
>> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
>>
>
>
> 
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
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>

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Re: [FRIAM] Trump Is Just A Normal Polling Error Behind Clinton | FiveThirtyEight

[Owen Densmore]

 Comey recants!

New Comey letter: FBI has not changed its conclusion regarding Clinton use
of personal email server
https://twitter.com/Acosta/status/79536004726784


I wonder if Comey has biased the race significantly? Nice to have this late
announcement, but with Early Voting so popular, I suspect he has had a
pretty large impact.

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Re: [FRIAM] Mouse issue

[Tom Johnson]

We are having the same problem.  Supposedly Critter Control "sealed" the
house.  Huh?  Yeah, the joke's on us.  So far I've resorted to buying
quantities of traps from Amazon.  See
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01CH01PA4/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8=1

TJ



Tom Johnson
Institute for Analytic Journalism   -- Santa Fe, NM USA
505.577.6482(c)505.473.9646(h)
Society of Professional Journalists 
*Check out It's The People's Data
*
http://www.jtjohnson.com   t...@jtjohnson.com


On Sun, Nov 6, 2016 at 11:09 AM, Gillian Densmore 
wrote:

> I have a problem that I need help solving.
>
> Mice.
>
> History: About 8-9 days ago I found out I have a mouse problem. I tried
> calling the city's pest controll to evict them before matters got worse.
> They told me they don't deel with mice.
>
> Problems: I can only guess just how bad the problem is. But it's safe to
> guess they're in the walls and or pipes someplace, because i've  thumped at
> least 4 possibly 5 the upstairs bathroom wich is...problematic at best.
>
> Also It turns out I have a small feer of mice leading to rambling
> incorehently on the phone to fam about the fuckers, a issue I am trying to
> resolve as best I can. Thank god for having some vallium on hand and some
> martial arts experience to stay calmER so that instead of pestering fam
> like calling them at 8pm on a Thursday to bich about them starting with Oh
> fuck their's a mouse and it's in my very nice and expensive tea, and it's
> friends are trying to go foraging on the kitchen table (Even though it was
> cleaned with bleach)
>
> I think what set me on tilte more than usual was trying to do some of the
> PT excersizes getting up and finding out calmly waching me looking both
> interested and perplexed--then going to bed for and finding a different one
> on my bed munching on something looking at me like he/she owned the house.
> I'm sure my rant and and the hell do I do I asked dad about will go down in
> history eventually.
>
> Question: What steps can I take in addition to take convince them the fams
> casita is deadly.
>
> So far I've put out easly 20 unique claptraps. The traditional kind.  With
> help from my friend sabina we started on  massive spring cleaning that was
> probably over do anyway.
> I keep running out of traps to put out. Between being pretting sure it's
> not getting to the root of the problem and running out clap traps.
> I have no clue what else can be done:
> What else can be done?
>
>
>
>
>
> 
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
>

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[FRIAM] Mouse issue

[Gillian Densmore]

I have a problem that I need help solving.

Mice.

History: About 8-9 days ago I found out I have a mouse problem. I tried
calling the city's pest controll to evict them before matters got worse.
They told me they don't deel with mice.

Problems: I can only guess just how bad the problem is. But it's safe to
guess they're in the walls and or pipes someplace, because i've  thumped at
least 4 possibly 5 the upstairs bathroom wich is...problematic at best.

Also It turns out I have a small feer of mice leading to rambling
incorehently on the phone to fam about the fuckers, a issue I am trying to
resolve as best I can. Thank god for having some vallium on hand and some
martial arts experience to stay calmER so that instead of pestering fam
like calling them at 8pm on a Thursday to bich about them starting with Oh
fuck their's a mouse and it's in my very nice and expensive tea, and it's
friends are trying to go foraging on the kitchen table (Even though it was
cleaned with bleach)

I think what set me on tilte more than usual was trying to do some of the
PT excersizes getting up and finding out calmly waching me looking both
interested and perplexed--then going to bed for and finding a different one
on my bed munching on something looking at me like he/she owned the house.
I'm sure my rant and and the hell do I do I asked dad about will go down in
history eventually.

Question: What steps can I take in addition to take convince them the fams
casita is deadly.

So far I've put out easly 20 unique claptraps. The traditional kind.  With
help from my friend sabina we started on  massive spring cleaning that was
probably over do anyway.
I keep running out of traps to put out. Between being pretting sure it's
not getting to the root of the problem and running out clap traps.
I have no clue what else can be done:
What else can be done?

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[FRIAM] Here's How Much Tesla's New Solar Roof Could Cost - Consumer Reports

[Tom Johnson]

Folk to Friday's sub-conversation about solar roofs.

http://www.consumerreports.org/roofing/heres-how-much-teslas-new-solar-roof-shingles-could-cost/

===
Tom Johnson - Inst. for Analytic Journalism
Santa Fe, NM
t...@jtjohnson.com   505-473-9646
===T

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Re: [FRIAM] Yearly rant about this daylight savings stuff

[Steven A Smith]

I enjoy it. It's like losing a $20 bill in the spring, then finding it in your 
coat pocket in the fall.
My mother ran a fun scam on my sister and I at Christmas for a number of 
years before we saw through it, which of course ruined the magic of it.


When we would break out the Xmas decorations in December, she would 
"discover" that each of our stockings still had a small but fun present 
in the toe that we had "overlooked" the year before.


I also like Calvin's "Daylight Savoring Time".  Thank you for sharing Nick.



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Re: [FRIAM] Yearly rant about this daylight savings stuff

[glen ep ropella]

I enjoy it. It's like losing a $20 bill in the spring, then finding it in your 
coat pocket in the fall.


On November 5, 2016 11:03:41 PM PDT, Nick Thompson  
wrote:
>
>Since retirement, we Thompsons reset our clocks and just keep on living
>as
>we have been, doing things an hour earlier on the clock.  Eventually it
>catches up with us, but for a while, we still have the long afternoons.


-- 
glen


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