Nick -
I believe one way to address your question(s) about /the elites/ is to
decide on what we mean by /elite/.
Quoted from Wikipedia:
*Elite* (from late 18th century French *élite*), is a term that
originates from Latin <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin> eligere
(“to choose, elect”). In political
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_theory> and sociological
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sociology> theory for a small group
of powerful people that controls a disproportionate amount of wealth
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_inequality>, privilege
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Privilege_%28social_inequality%29> or
political power <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_power> in a
society.
If the term /disproportionate/ says it all? By this definition, we
absolutely *don't* want /the/ /elites/ to have /undue influence/.
I think what you might really be asking is whether there is room for a
(partial?) meritocracy? Can we ever trust a minority subset of the
population to make decisions for the majority population?
I would claim that representative democracies such as ours work (when
and to the extent that they do) *because* we presumably select from a
pool of dedicated, talented and informed individuals to form a
constantly morphing meritocracy (our representatives) to make decisions
in our collective best interests.
In the rhetoric I *think* you are referencing, it is more a question of
populism as defined also in Wikipedia.
*Populism* is a political ideology that holds that virtuous citizens
are mistreated by a small circle of elites, who can be overthrown if
the people recognize the danger and work together. Populism depicts
elites as trampling on the rights, values, and voice of the
legitimate people.^[1]
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Populism#cite_note-1>
Populist movements are found in many democratic nations. Cas Mudde
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cas_Mudde> says, "Many observers have
noted that populism is inherent to representative democracy; after
all, do populists not juxtapose 'the pure people' against 'the
corrupt elite'?"^[2]
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Populism#cite_note-Cas_Mudde_2004_p_560-2>
^
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Populism#cite_note-Cas_Mudde_2004_p_560-2>
The current low popularity and distrust of our two major candidates
suggests that generally we are failing at this model of meritocracy.
Those /elites/ who have /disproportionate /influence in our culture ARE
the Trumps and the Clintons, and most of us simply don't trust them.
They have wedged us into a situation where we are challenged to trust
*one of them* to protect our interests from the corruptions of *the
other one*.
Trump supporters seem to almost unilaterally not trust *any*
politicians... they tossed all of the *other* Republicans who were
standard politicians to put Trump into the election and now they are
rallying to put him in to displace the most experienced, most well
prepared politician of all time to become President. It is Hillary's
very strong qualifications for the role that make her so threatening to
them (and some of the rest of us).
I think the recently reference Dalai Lama article in the NYT provides
*some* basis for compassion for those who would use Trump as their
"Molotov Cocktail" (to reference Michael Moore)...
- Steve
On 11/6/16 9:37 PM, Nick Thompson wrote:
Dave,
I think you are dead on concerning our attitude toward “the
deplorables” . We need to know more about them and be prepared to
find common ground.
Without taking anything away from that agreement, I want to question
your last sentences about the “elites.” As a term of contempt, it’s a
little like “the deplorables”. Who exactly are these Folks. Do I
know any of them?
But let’s stipulate to the existence of such elites. Let’s assume for
the moment that that the people arrayed against trump are the most
experienced, well trained, members of our society. Would it be wrong
for them to have undo influence on the train of events? What IS your
position on expertise? Do you value it? How do we non-experts tell
when an expert is making a mistake?
Or, do you think that elites have their place, but they are making
decisions beyond their competence. The elites might tell us the
consequences of our folly, but it is not their role to manipulate us
into avoiding. Perhaps we are all dionysians. Perhaps we want to go
down in a fiery (nuclear war) or watery (global warming) end. Don’t
we get to choose our own fate?
All the best,
Nick
Nicholas S. Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
Clark University
http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/
<http://home.earthlink.net/%7Enickthompson/naturaldesigns/>
*From:*Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] *On Behalf Of *Prof
David West
*Sent:* Sunday, November 06, 2016 6:15 PM
*To:* friam@redfish.com
*Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Trump Is Just A Normal Polling Error Behind
Clinton | FiveThirtyEight
If Trump were to win this election, the number one reason is the
insistence of democrats and liberals to demonize and marginalize the
populace supporting Trump.
If the only people that support him are "angry" racist" "xenophobic"
"out-of-work-white-men"
"could-not-graduate-from-college-because-of-low-IQ" etc. etc. he could
not possibly command more than 10% of the vote.
Trump is a terrible person — but NOT atypical of the population in
general. Projecting his worst qualities onto the masses that support
him is a huge, hopefully fatal, strategic mistake on the part of the
Clinton campaign. But it would be simply a continuation of a fifty
year trend: a small elite that firmly believe they are the only ones
capable of and deserving of running the government and that anyone
that opposes them is ignorant and dangerous.
davew
On Sat, Nov 5, 2016, at 12:12 PM, Frank Wimberly wrote:
My opinion: scorn is a very powerful position; you can be scornful
of God. People who feel powerless and left out find Trump
appealing because they identify with the power implied by his
scorn of the elite, the establishment, etc. Remember Spiro Agnew
calling the educated "pointy headed intellectuals"?
In the meantime I'm very concerned with who's going to win the
election.
Frank
Frank Wimberly
Phone (505) 670-9918
On Nov 5, 2016 12:59 PM, "Owen Densmore" <o...@backspaces.net
<mailto:o...@backspaces.net>> wrote:
A quote from the article is pretty telling:
In America today, compared with 50 years ago, three times
as many working-age men are completely outside the work
force. This pattern is occurring throughout the developed
world — and the consequences are not merely economic.
Feeling superfluous is a blow to the human spirit. It
leads to social isolation and emotional pain, and creates
the conditions for negative emotions to take root.
If I were one of them, I'd surely vote Trump.
We do need to get over "who's going to win?" and ask "why has
Trump got such a *huge* following?"
-- Owen
On Sat, Nov 5, 2016 at 11:58 AM, Owen Densmore
<o...@backspaces.net <mailto:o...@backspaces.net>> wrote:
On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 2:51 PM, Marcus Daniels
<mar...@snoutfarm.com <mailto:mar...@snoutfarm.com>> wrote:
I found the article from the Dalai Lama in the NYT
today fairly plausible explanation of why we have the
current problem. But, I would say, no, there will
be no brotherhood with the Bundy's. The
redistributionist approach (that Brooks -- libertarian
-- objects to elsewhere) arises in order to give the
possibility of free enterprise, not to preserve it for
those that haven't realized they've simply failed to
be sufficiently enterprising.
I just took a look at the article, and it certainly is
interesting and puts into perspective why wealthy
countries have a "The Sky Is Falling" syndrome.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/04/opinion/dalai-lama-behind-our-anxiety-the-fear-of-being-unneeded.html
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