Re: [funsec] 1984 sales spike
Date sent: Fri, 14 Jun 2013 15:25:33 -0400 From: Jeffrey Walton noloa...@gmail.com I'm starting to believe there's a concerted effort to keep us fighting amongst ourselves so we don't focus on the issues that matter. Oh, surely no politician would ever do such a thing ... == (quote inserted randomly by Pegasus Mailer) rsl...@vcn.bc.ca sl...@victoria.tc.ca rsl...@computercrime.org well, the last remaining computer in the house with Windows on it died this morning. - http://twitter.com/e_cowperthwaite/status/157499523676110848 Congrats, you've been defenestrated. - https://twitter.com/#!/SecurityHumor/status/157511635857195009 victoria.tc.ca/techrev/rms.htm http://www.infosecbc.org/links http://blogs.securiteam.com/index.php/archives/author/p1/ http://twitter.com/rslade ___ Fun and Misc security discussion for OT posts. https://linuxbox.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/funsec Note: funsec is a public and open mailing list.
Re: [funsec] 1984 sales spike
While on the NSA surveillance / PRISM topics, if you take issue with the rampant invasion of citizen privacy by the U.S. government, then make your voice heard by adding your name to one or more of these petitions. https://optin.stopwatching.us/ https://action.eff.org/o/9042/p/dia/action3/common/public/?action_KEY=9260 https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/impeach-federal-judge-roger-vinson-authorizing-warrantless-nsa-surveillance-millions-americans-phone/sKFwyNP8 https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/declassify-and-discontinue-government-surveillance-phone-records-and-internet-activity/Cgc46HB2#thank-you=p And while you're at it I'll digress from the fun in funsec slightly further, in suggesting that you thoughtfully consider this unrelated petition that was inspired by current battles in Congress over immigration reform. http://wh.gov/l3i8W I know what you're saying - what the hell does that have to do with funsec? It's a stretch but the sec in funsec is short for security, as we all know. And certain idiots in Congress are insisting that no immigration reform will be passed that doesn't include the throwing of countless billions of dollars into more border security. As taxpayers we should be up in arms over such fiscal irresponsibility. Lets all look at this together, wearing our nifty InfoSec risk assessor hats. We look at IT security risks, countermeasures, and the value of available security controls routinely, and we can easily apply those same principles and practices to non-IT areas. Risk = Many immigrants enter the U.S. illegally every year, subsequently take jobs away from legal residents (under the table), don't pay income taxes, don't pay into social security, put a drain on social services, and whatnot Risk Countermeasures: #1 - giant walls that span almost 2,000 miles, mega surveillance above and below ground, a million border guards, etc. #2 - laws that threaten employers with hefty fines and/or prison sentences for hiring illegal aliens Now we identify the Effectiveness of the two Countermeasures. Countermeasure #1 = Medium effectiveness (which gets a value of 2, in a scale of 1-2-3) Countermeasure #2 = High effectiveness (which gets a value of 3, in that same scale) Next we identify the Cost of the proposed countermeasures. Countermeasure #1 = High cost (which gets a value of 1) Countermeasure #2 = Low cost (which gets a value of 3) Now we calculate the Value using this formula: Quantified/Qualified Control Value = Effectiveness of Countermeasure multiplied by its Implementation Cost where the calculated results of; 6-9 = High Value 3-4 = Medium Value 1-2 = Low Value Using that formula and the values derived above we can deduce the following; Countermeasure #1 = 2 (Medium effectiveness) multiplied by 1 (High cost) = 2 = Low Value Countermeasure #2 = 3 (High effectiveness) multiplied by 3 (Low cost) = 9 = High Value In summation, High Value Low Value (no duh) Also in summation, our elected representatives are a bunch of corrupt idiots who obviously can't do simple math. Just for the record, I'm pro-immigration but anti-illegal-immigration, and calling for fiscal responsibility on this topic should not be misconstrued as any bias against migrant workers from below our southern border. Respectfully submitted, Vic ___ Fun and Misc security discussion for OT posts. https://linuxbox.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/funsec Note: funsec is a public and open mailing list.
Re: [funsec] 1984 sales spike
There's this one too. https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/repeal-whole-or-part-usa-patriot-act-order-stop-secret-warrantless-collection-data/pmTnXNw8 On Jun 14, 2013, at 5:31 AM, Vic Vandal vvan...@well.com wrote: While on the NSA surveillance / PRISM topics, if you take issue with the rampant invasion of citizen privacy by the U.S. government, then make your voice heard by adding your name to one or more of these petitions. ___ Fun and Misc security discussion for OT posts. https://linuxbox.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/funsec Note: funsec is a public and open mailing list.
Re: [funsec] 1984 sales spike
On Fri, Jun 14, 2013 at 8:31 AM, Vic Vandal vvan...@well.com wrote: ... And while you're at it I'll digress from the fun in funsec slightly further, in suggesting that you thoughtfully consider this unrelated petition that was inspired by current battles in Congress over immigration reform. http://wh.gov/l3i8W When I was younger, I used to drink a a little bar after work. Many of the rednecks in that bar had nothing good to say about folks like blacks and hispanics. They would claim the blacks and hispanics were lazy and worthless, and they should be sent back to their countries. In fact, some of those white folks would were more than happy to collect unemployment rather than working the jobs the blacks and hispanics would take. ... Risk = Many immigrants enter the U.S. illegally every year, subsequently take jobs away from legal residents (under the table), don't pay income taxes, don't pay into social security, put a drain on social services, and whatnot Risk Countermeasures: #1 - giant walls that span almost 2,000 miles, mega surveillance above and below ground, a million border guards, etc. #2 - laws that threaten employers with hefty fines and/or prison sentences for hiring illegal aliens What happens when no unemployed white worker will take the job? Do you like your strawberries and peaches at a reasonable price (and funded off the backs of migrant workers)? Or do you want to pay 9.99/lb? Now we identify the Effectiveness of the two Countermeasures. Countermeasure #1 = Medium effectiveness (which gets a value of 2, in a scale of 1-2-3) Countermeasure #2 = High effectiveness (which gets a value of 3, in that same scale) ... Where is the human factor? Have you been to Mexico, Guatemal or El Salvador to see what those people are leaving? I surely don't fault them for their desires of things like clean water and better education for their children. As a counterpoint: why would you consider a callused policy that penalizes children? Those sorts of f**k up foreign policies brought on 9/11 (unless you believe they hate us because we are democratic). Jeff ___ Fun and Misc security discussion for OT posts. https://linuxbox.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/funsec Note: funsec is a public and open mailing list.
Re: [funsec] 1984 sales spike
On Fri, Jun 14, 2013 at 8:31 AM, Vic Vandal vvan...@well.com wrote: ... And while you're at it I'll digress from the fun in funsec slightly further, in suggesting that you thoughtfully consider this unrelated petition that was inspired by current battles in Congress over immigration reform. http://wh.gov/l3i8W When I was younger, I used to drink a a little bar after work. Many of the rednecks in that bar had nothing good to say about folks like blacks and hispanics. They would claim the blacks and hispanics were lazy and worthless, and they should be sent back to their countries. In fact, some of those white folks would were more than happy to collect unemployment rather than working the jobs the blacks and hispanics would take. this has nothing to do with black, white, Hispanic. If you're a legal citizen do what you want, take the job you want, or not. the legal citizen on welfare is an entirely different argument completely... the subject is ILLEGAL ALIENS entering the country and getting on the Government wagon that most of us are pulling ... Risk = Many immigrants enter the U.S. illegally every year, subsequently take jobs away from legal residents (under the table), don't pay income taxes, don't pay into social security, put a drain on social services, and whatnot Risk Countermeasures: #1 - giant walls that span almost 2,000 miles, mega surveillance above and below ground, a million border guards, etc. #2 - laws that threaten employers with hefty fines and/or prison sentences for hiring illegal aliens What happens when no unemployed white worker will take the job? Do you like your strawberries and peaches at a reasonable price (and funded off the backs of migrant workers)? Or do you want to pay 9.99/lb? Now we identify the Effectiveness of the two Countermeasures. Countermeasure #1 = Medium effectiveness (which gets a value of 2, in a scale of 1-2-3) Countermeasure #2 = High effectiveness (which gets a value of 3, in that same scale) ... Where is the human factor? Have you been to Mexico, Guatemal or El Salvador to see what those people are leaving? I surely don't fault them for their desires of things like clean water and better education for their children. As a counterpoint: why would you consider a callused policy that penalizes children? Those sorts of f**k up foreign policies brought on 9/11 (unless you believe they hate us because we are democratic). Human Factor? Seriously? You know what, I know what their countries are like, and I DON'T WANT TO LIVE THERE EITHER. But it's THEIR country to deal with but more so, honestly, I could care less what their country is like. That is up to them to fix THEIR country, not to break into the United States and start stealing stuff from LEGAL CITIZENS. If they don't' like their own country, they have two choices... FIX their country or leave. Where ever they go they had better damned well get there legally... What if they entered France illegally, or Spain, or Ireland, or the UK??? Yah, their asses would be thrown out or thrown in jail until they get thrown out. What do the democrats do here??? Oh, we give them EBT cards, give them jobs, give them drivers licenses etc... They come here and wind up destroying THIS country as well No more, the line must be drawn here! And about the strawberries, I'll grow my own damned strawberries if they get to $10 a pound. But that won't happen, because there will always be Legal Citizens that want to pick strawberries (or anything else for that matter)... Those Children of illegal aliens, if born here in the States, are legal citizens... they'll have an option when we ship their ILLEGAL ALIEN parents back to wherever... they can go to a foster home, or go back with their parents Yah, this may sound callous, cold, and mean spirited... but you know what, enough is enough. 20 Million illegal aliens are in this country that we know about.. yet the administration does nothing about it? I'm fed up, period If you want to immigrate into the USA, fine, you are absolutely more than welcome to come here to live... but make sure you do It legally or you'll be thrown the F**k out. Seriously tell me any other country in the world that allows anyone from anywhere to come on into the country and get on a government supplied welfare program... there aren't any ___ Fun and Misc security discussion for OT posts. https://linuxbox.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/funsec Note: funsec is a public and open mailing list. ___ Fun and Misc security discussion for OT posts. https://linuxbox.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/funsec Note: funsec is a public and open mailing list.
Re: [funsec] 1984 sales spike
On Fri, 14 Jun 2013 17:51:35 -, Blanchard, Michael (InfoSec) said: But it's THEIR country to deal with but more so, You know... my grandfather left Latvia because doing so was a lot easier than staying there and trying to avoid being either shot or sent to Siberia, because there really wasn't much he could actually do to get rid of Stalin and his armies an KGB agents. (And yes, the KGB *was* actively looking for my grandfather) Are you suggesting he should have stayed there and dealt with it? Saying it's their country to deal with overlooks the very real fact that often, the only realistic choices are exile and martyrdom. pgpsdprkECWx6.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ Fun and Misc security discussion for OT posts. https://linuxbox.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/funsec Note: funsec is a public and open mailing list.
Re: [funsec] 1984 sales spike
. tried some immigration reform? Here, let me educate you a bit. Here is a 1998 fatwa/declaration by Osama bin Laden, where he very specifically laid out his grievances against the U.S. http://www.fas.org/irp/world/para/docs/980223-fatwa.htm He and his followers also took some issue with our reported widespread immoral acts of sex outside of marriage, homosexuality, usage of drugs and alcohol, gambling, etc. In closing I offer my sincere apologies to the funsec crowd who ended up reading this. It is only because Jeffrey Walton didn't reply to me individually that I also replied to all. I promise I won't reply to all going forward, because debating with any of the unwashed masses on the Internet is almost always a waste of time, and I know that most of you have better things to do than witness more of that. Vic out - Original Message - From: Jeffrey Walton noloa...@gmail.com To: Vic Vandal vvan...@well.com Cc: funsec@linuxbox.org Sent: Friday, June 14, 2013 1:11:32 PM Subject: Re: [funsec] 1984 sales spike On Fri, Jun 14, 2013 at 8:31 AM, Vic Vandal vvan...@well.com wrote: ... And while you're at it I'll digress from the fun in funsec slightly further, in suggesting that you thoughtfully consider this unrelated petition that was inspired by current battles in Congress over immigration reform. http://wh.gov/l3i8W When I was younger, I used to drink a a little bar after work. Many of the rednecks in that bar had nothing good to say about folks like blacks and hispanics. They would claim the blacks and hispanics were lazy and worthless, and they should be sent back to their countries. In fact, some of those white folks would were more than happy to collect unemployment rather than working the jobs the blacks and hispanics would take. ... Risk = Many immigrants enter the U.S. illegally every year, subsequently take jobs away from legal residents (under the table), don't pay income taxes, don't pay into social security, put a drain on social services, and whatnot Risk Countermeasures: #1 - giant walls that span almost 2,000 miles, mega surveillance above and below ground, a million border guards, etc. #2 - laws that threaten employers with hefty fines and/or prison sentences for hiring illegal aliens What happens when no unemployed white worker will take the job? Do you like your strawberries and peaches at a reasonable price (and funded off the backs of migrant workers)? Or do you want to pay 9.99/lb? Now we identify the Effectiveness of the two Countermeasures. Countermeasure #1 = Medium effectiveness (which gets a value of 2, in a scale of 1-2-3) Countermeasure #2 = High effectiveness (which gets a value of 3, in that same scale) ... Where is the human factor? Have you been to Mexico, Guatemal or El Salvador to see what those people are leaving? I surely don't fault them for their desires of things like clean water and better education for their children. As a counterpoint: why would you consider a callused policy that penalizes children? Those sorts of f**k up foreign policies brought on 9/11 (unless you believe they hate us because we are democratic). Jeff ___ Fun and Misc security discussion for OT posts. https://linuxbox.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/funsec Note: funsec is a public and open mailing list.
Re: [funsec] 1984 sales spike
Not at all... staying there and dealing with it is a choice for sure, although a bad choice. I would say he made the right choice by immigrating to the states I'm sure your Grandfather came here legally, and didn't try to hide within the system. Just as my Great Grandfather did from Montreal. I'm not against immigration, I'm actually completely for immigration just immigrate legally... One thing I will say, is that we do have to make it easier for someone to immigrate into the States. That should be part of immigration reform It shouldn't be a slam dunk for citizenship though... Michael P. Blanchard Principal Security Engineer, CISSP, GCIH, CCSA-NGX, MCSE Cyber Security Services EMC ² Corporation 32 Coslin Drive Southboro, MA 01772 -Original Message- From: valdis.kletni...@vt.edu [mailto:valdis.kletni...@vt.edu] Sent: Friday, June 14, 2013 3:00 PM To: Blanchard, Michael (InfoSec) Cc: noloa...@gmail.com; Vic Vandal; funsec@linuxbox.org Subject: Re: [funsec] 1984 sales spike On Fri, 14 Jun 2013 17:51:35 -, Blanchard, Michael (InfoSec) said: But it's THEIR country to deal with but more so, You know... my grandfather left Latvia because doing so was a lot easier than staying there and trying to avoid being either shot or sent to Siberia, because there really wasn't much he could actually do to get rid of Stalin and his armies an KGB agents. (And yes, the KGB *was* actively looking for my grandfather) Are you suggesting he should have stayed there and dealt with it? Saying it's their country to deal with overlooks the very real fact that often, the only realistic choices are exile and martyrdom. ___ Fun and Misc security discussion for OT posts. https://linuxbox.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/funsec Note: funsec is a public and open mailing list.
Re: [funsec] 1984 sales spike
On Fri, Jun 14, 2013 at 3:15 PM, Blanchard, Michael (InfoSec) michael.blanch...@emc.com wrote: ... I'm not against immigration, I'm actually completely for immigration just immigrate legally... +1 One thing I will say, is that we do have to make it easier for someone to immigrate into the States. That should be part of immigration reform It shouldn't be a slam dunk for citizenship though... +1 Has anyone else noticed that when the US f**ks up really bad, then the argument turns to Immigration to distract us? When Bush lied and invaded Iraq, Immigration became an issue. When Wikileaks received documents about the US actions in its wars, Immigration became an issue. Now we have the evidence of the widespread spying by the US government agencies, and again Immigration is rearing its head. I'm starting to believe there's a concerted effort to keep us fighting amongst ourselves so we don't focus on the issues that matter. Jeff ___ Fun and Misc security discussion for OT posts. https://linuxbox.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/funsec Note: funsec is a public and open mailing list.
Re: [funsec] 1984 sales spike
On Fri, Jun 14, 2013 at 3:01 PM, Vic Vandal vvan...@well.com wrote: ... In closing I offer my sincere apologies to the funsec crowd who ended up reading this. It is only because Jeffrey Walton didn't reply to me individually that I also replied to all. I promise I won't reply to all going forward, because debating with any of the unwashed masses on the Internet is almost always a waste of time, and I know that most of you have better things to do than witness more of that. Sorry Vic. I was outside cutting the grass, and I just got back. Jeff ___ Fun and Misc security discussion for OT posts. https://linuxbox.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/funsec Note: funsec is a public and open mailing list.
Re: [funsec] 1984 sales spike
On Fri, Jun 14, 2013 at 3:01 PM, Vic Vandal vvan...@well.com wrote: ... Jeff wrote: Those sorts of f**k up foreign policies brought on 9/11 (unless you believe they hate us because we are democratic). My response: I really hate doing this, but you basically forced my hand. Ah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! That is the funniest (and dumbest) thing that I've read all day. A small group of Muslim radicals crashed planes on 9-11 because the U.S. tried some immigration reform? No, I don't believe it had anything to do with Immigration Reform. If you believe its a very small group of individuals are involved and the Fatwa only covers seven years, then I believe you are sadly mistaken. The US foreign policy in the Middle East has been f**k'd up since before I was born, so that's at least 50 years. In fact, the US meets its own definition of a nation exporting terror when you take into consideration its support for Israel and the nation's crimes against Arabs (for completeness, the Arabs are just as guilty with their crimes against Israel). The support comes in the form of money, weapons, and training. I still remember the 1990s, when Israel would level entire blocks in cities like Jenin. So how exactly does the US policy support stability in the region? Jeff ___ Fun and Misc security discussion for OT posts. https://linuxbox.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/funsec Note: funsec is a public and open mailing list.
Re: [funsec] 1984 sales spike
On Fri, Jun 14, 2013 at 03:41:32PM -0400, Jeffrey Walton wrote: The US foreign policy in the Middle East has been f**k'd up since before I was born, so that's at least 50 years. A) I have sometimes jokingly suggested that perhaps all of this could have been avoided if we'd simply given the nascent state of Israel half of Nevada, and paid to move everything there. Oh, sure, expensive as hell, but then again, 70 years of bloodshed, instability, proxy wars, killings, more killings, killings because of killings and more killings, etc., etc., etc. is expensive too. And it may yet end in a nuclear exchange, whose longterm costs to the planet will likely dwarf all those combined. The more years that go by, the more often I'm not joking. B) There is much wisdom in this exchange from Kingdom of Heaven: Saladin: Will you yield the city? Balian of Ibelin: Before I lose it, I will burn it to the ground. Your holy places -- ours. Every last thing in Jerusalem that drives men mad. Saladin: I wonder if it would not be better if you did. ---rsk ___ Fun and Misc security discussion for OT posts. https://linuxbox.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/funsec Note: funsec is a public and open mailing list.
[funsec] 1984 sales spike
In the wake of the news about PRISM, Amazon reports huge sales of George Orwell's novel 1984. http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2013/06/11/190615813/book-news-sales-of- orwell-s-1984-leap-after-nsa-revelations or http://is.gd/l7Qxfj In other news, the NSA now knows the names of everyone who bought 1984 in the past three months ... == (quote inserted randomly by Pegasus Mailer) rsl...@vcn.bc.ca sl...@victoria.tc.ca rsl...@computercrime.org There's no reason to be the richest man in the cemetery. You can't do any business from there. - `Colonel' Harlan Sanders victoria.tc.ca/techrev/rms.htm http://www.infosecbc.org/links http://blogs.securiteam.com/index.php/archives/author/p1/ http://twitter.com/rslade ___ Fun and Misc security discussion for OT posts. https://linuxbox.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/funsec Note: funsec is a public and open mailing list.
Re: [funsec] 1984 sales spike
On 6/11/2013 3:25 PM, Rob, grandpa of Ryan, Trevor, Devon Hannah wrote: In other news, the NSA now knows the names of everyone who bought 1984 in the past three months ... Is anyone else feeling the urge to go buy a copy of Catcher In The Rye.. y'know.. even though you already have 8 copies of it at home? (re: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conspiracy_Theory_(film) ) ___ Fun and Misc security discussion for OT posts. https://linuxbox.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/funsec Note: funsec is a public and open mailing list.
Re: [funsec] 1984 sales spike
On Tue, 11 Jun 2013 15:32:15 -0400, Conrad Constantine said: On 6/11/2013 3:25 PM, Rob, grandpa of Ryan, Trevor, Devon Hannah wrote: In other news, the NSA now knows the names of everyone who bought 1984 in the past three months ... Is anyone else feeling the urge to go buy a copy of Catcher In The Rye.. y'know.. even though you already have 8 copies of it at home? No, what you *want* to do is have a sudden noticable spike in sales of something apparently innocuous, like a new edition of Hamlet or an annotated collection of the works of Lewis Carrol. pgpaiDRD_3mGh.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ Fun and Misc security discussion for OT posts. https://linuxbox.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/funsec Note: funsec is a public and open mailing list.
