Re: FVWM: Desktops versus Pages - how to use?
Chris G <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > I've never quite made my mind up whether to use several Desktops or > several Pages on one desktop, what are the reasons (if any) for > choosing one or the other? Pages seem more useful to me. If you ever want to see half a window you can. When my VPN disconnects it opens a dialog window. Since it's forced on to another page, I see half the window from my main page. I don't think that would work if it was on another desk. > I've never found any use for running a program with a window larger > than my screen size, I rarely (but very occasionally) would like to > drag a window from one place to another. > > So for me Pages will work *slightly* better than Desktops except that > they don't have names. Personally, I have no use for a pager. Have 4 pages and I switch between them with the arrow keys. Never wanted to give up any screen space for a pager to watch the other pages/desks.
Re: FVWM: Desktops versus Pages - how to use?
On Thu, 22 May 2008, Chris G wrote: I've never quite made my mind up whether to use several Desktops or several Pages on one desktop, what are the reasons (if any) for choosing one or the other? Mah, I originally developed my arrangement (when I moved into fvwm from a single desktop single page motif :-)) with the idea to have : - one desktop with 4 pages for "work" - another desktop for "network". Originally it had one page for the browser, one page for e-mail, another page for a VNC connection to another machine, and a spare page. Now the VNC is gone and I end up using the two spare as extra work areas (sometime I put pdf documents in the one next to the e-mail page) I've never found any use for running a program with a window larger than my screen size, No, although sometimes I'd like to have two physical screens :-) I rarely (but very occasionally) would like to drag a window from one place to another. Personally I like the little pager in the corner to swap pages/desktops, and occasionally to drag windows. I hate KDE-type control panels, so I have just the pager and a clock, and do all the rest via root menus. I defined accelerator keys to move across pages/ desktops and ended in not using them at all. I even forgot what they are (the rare case I needed is doing presentations with a full screen pdf or ppt (*) on one page and a web browser on another). (*) prefer a latex generated "beamer" pdf :-) I define window menus to move a window to a target desktop and page and use them very seldom (may be because I always forget whether my 2x2 pages are numbered [1,2][3,4] or [1,3][2,4] :-)) In general when I need to move a window from a page/desk to another, I end up as follows : use the window menu to make it sticky, change page/desk and make it unsticky. Or leave it sticky if I need to go to and fro many times. I guess the good of fvmw is that allows many different working styles to be achieved easily and in a light way. -- Lucio Chiappetti - INAF/IASF - via Bassini 15 - I-20133 Milano (Italy) For more info : http://www.iasf-milano.inaf.it/~lucio/personal.html Do not blame ME, I did NOT vote Berlusconi.
Re: FVWM: Desktops versus Pages - how to use?
On Thu, May 22, 2008 at 9:57 AM, Chris G <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I've never quite made my mind up whether to use several Desktops or > several Pages on one desktop, what are the reasons (if any) for > choosing one or the other? When I used a page system I was doing school work a lot. My typical layout is a Desk per task and page per program. First Desktop (Latex note editing): Emacs on one page Terminal on another Xpdf on a third Second Desktop (Website Editing) Firefox on one page Emacs on another Terminal on a third Third Desktop (Random personal) Firefox Gaim Another firefox etc, all usually on their own page This worked out well for me just to keep organized. Chris Giroir
Re: FVWM: Desktops versus Pages - how to use?
I have mine set up w/ 2 desks of 4 pages each. Only one desk is visible at a time. Middle clicking on a page switches me to that page on the other desk. I have numbered title bar buttons to move windows to numbered page, or can move it to same page on other desk.
Re: FVWM: Desktops versus Pages - how to use?
> I've never quite made my mind up whether to use several Desktops or > several Pages on one desktop, what are the reasons (if any) for > choosing one or the other? > > I've never found any use for running a program with a window larger > than my screen size, I rarely (but very occasionally) would like to > drag a window from one place to another. > > So for me Pages will work *slightly* better than Desktops except that > they don't have names. > > In many ways it seems a rather artificial distinction that causes some > confusion and doesn't offer much useful, but maybe I'm not seeing > something obvious. > > (Yes, I know a Page is a 'screens worth' of a Desktop, but I don't see > what use that is to me) I use both -- typically 4 pages on each of 4 desktops (though both are configurable easily via AnotherLevelUp preferences). I typically have ~6 or so windows open on each desktop at any time, using ~2 or 3 pages of each. Why? * FvwmTaskBar can be set to show only windows on the current desktop, (and iconised ones), which is less cluttered if you organise your desktops into `task' activities. * I use have it so that each desktop is associated with a directory of my filestore, so everything run from the menus there already has that directory as CWD. (I could say how this is done if you would like.) * Pages are used as more desk space within each `task', e.g. I might have a web browser open on the Java API in the page next to the one I am writing code in: I can just slide between the two with either the mouse or shortcuts. > Chris Green Thanks, John
Re: FVWM: Desktops versus Pages - how to use?
> From: John Latham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 18:54:17 +0100 (BST) > * Pages are used as more desk space within each `task', e.g. I might > have a web browser open on the Java API in the page next to the one I > am writing code in: I can just slide between the two with either the > mouse or shortcuts. Having thought about it more than ever before, I suppose what I'm saying here is that desktops are associated with tasks, and pages with sub-tasks! E.g. on one desktop I may be writing a Java text book with an editor and dvi viewer on page 0,0 but in page 0,1 I have xfig open to edit diagrams for the book. Meanwhile on a different desktop I have my main email client windows on page 0,0 with maybe some particular emails in process of being written -- but stalled while I think about them, each on another page of that desktop.
Re: FVWM: Desktops versus Pages - how to use?
On Thu, May 22, 2008 at 02:57:17PM +0100, Chris G wrote: > I've never quite made my mind up whether to use several Desktops or > several Pages on one desktop, what are the reasons (if any) for > choosing one or the other? I used to use pages all the time, but that causes things to *really* mess up if you change the desktop size via xrandr (e.g. connecting a different monitor). When I switched to desktops, everything is perfect after running xrandr. The only thing I missed was the ability to have a 3x3 grid of pages and move between them with vi like keys (e.g. Win+h/j/k/l). A little scripting with FvwmPerl makes this easy... :) GI -- 'Democracy' -- Three wolves and one sheep voting on what to have for supper. pgpwyqRA0A5UW.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: FVWM: Desktops versus Pages - how to use?
On Thu, May 22, 2008 at 12:08:07PM -0400, Chris Giroir wrote: > On Thu, May 22, 2008 at 9:57 AM, Chris G <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I've never quite made my mind up whether to use several Desktops or > > several Pages on one desktop, what are the reasons (if any) for > > choosing one or the other? > > When I used a page system I was doing school work a lot. My typical > layout is a Desk per task and page per program. > > First Desktop (Latex note editing): > Emacs on one page > Terminal on another > Xpdf on a third > > Second Desktop (Website Editing) > Firefox on one page > Emacs on another > Terminal on a third > > Third Desktop (Random personal) > Firefox > Gaim > Another firefox etc, all usually on their own page > > This worked out well for me just to keep organized. > Yes, but why is it any different from having 9 (or 12) Pages or 9 (or 12) Desktops? I quite agree about the organisation aspects but I fail to understand what difference using Desktops, or Pages, or both, makes to the result. -- Chris Green
Re: FVWM: Desktops versus Pages - how to use?
On Thu, May 22, 2008 at 06:00:06PM +0200, Lucio Chiappetti wrote: > On Thu, 22 May 2008, Chris G wrote: > >> I rarely (but very occasionally) would like to drag a window from one >> place to another. > > Personally I like the little pager in the corner to swap pages/desktops, > and occasionally to drag windows. I hate KDE-type control panels, so I have > just the pager and a clock, and do all the rest via root menus. > Just about what I have, plus gnome-panel for the things I can't remember, hence the recent thread about getting gnome/KDE apps into the fvwm menus. > > In general when I need to move a window from a page/desk to another, I end > up as follows : use the window menu to make it sticky, change page/desk and > make it unsticky. Or leave it sticky if I need to go to and fro many times. > Can't you just drag and drop it with button 2? > I guess the good of fvmw is that allows many different working styles to be > achieved easily and in a light way. > -- Chris Green
Re: FVWM: Desktops versus Pages - how to use?
On 22/05/2008, Gautam Iyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> The only thing I missed was the ability to have a 3x3 grid of pages and
> move between them with vi like keys (e.g. Win+h/j/k/l). A little
> scripting with FvwmPerl makes this easy...
Why FvwmPerl? This why Goto{Page,Desk} exists.
-- Thomas Adam
Re: FVWM: Desktops versus Pages - how to use?
On Thu, May 22, 2008 at 06:54:17PM +0100, John Latham wrote: > * FvwmTaskBar can be set to show only windows on the current desktop, > (and iconised ones), which is less cluttered if you organise your > desktops into `task' activities. > I don't use a task bar so that's not relevant for my setup. > * I use have it so that each desktop is associated with a directory of > my filestore, so everything run from the menus there already has that > directory as CWD. (I could say how this is done if you would like.) > Clever, but I'm not convinced my system is that big and complex. > * Pages are used as more desk space within each `task', e.g. I might > have a web browser open on the Java API in the page next to the one I > am writing code in: I can just slide between the two with either the > mouse or shortcuts. > Now that *does* make some sense for me, I might well set things up so the mouse will flip me from one page to another on a Desktop, I can see that would be useful. -- Chris Green
Re: FVWM: Desktops versus Pages - how to use?
On Thu, May 22, 2008 at 07:15:46PM +0100, John Latham wrote: > > From: John Latham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 18:54:17 +0100 (BST) > > > * Pages are used as more desk space within each `task', e.g. I might > > have a web browser open on the Java API in the page next to the one I > > am writing code in: I can just slide between the two with either the > > mouse or shortcuts. > > Having thought about it more than ever before, I suppose what I'm saying here > is that desktops are associated with tasks, and pages with sub-tasks! > > E.g. on one desktop I may be writing a Java text book with an editor and dvi > viewer on page 0,0 but in page 0,1 I have xfig open to edit diagrams for the > book. Meanwhile on a different desktop I have my main email client windows on > page 0,0 with maybe some particular emails in process of being written -- but > stalled while I think about them, each on another page of that desktop. > That makes it more of an organisational convenience than anything else though doesn't it. If you named your Pages (or Desktops) to reflect that organisation would it actually make any difference how they were implemented? -- Chris Green
Re: FVWM: Desktops versus Pages - how to use?
> I quite agree about the organisation aspects but I fail to understand > what difference using Desktops, or Pages, or both, makes to the result. > > -- > Chris Green You can trim icons displayed in icon managers by page or desk as well, so it can be handy. I generally have icons shown for the current desk only but not all desks. I use the window list to switch and check status of other windows (The pidgin window a desktop away for instance). I agree that's a limit benefit of the difference :) Chris Giroir
Re: FVWM: Desktops versus Pages - how to use?
On Thu, May 22, 2008 at 08:36:58PM +0100, Thomas Adam wrote:
>> The only thing I missed was the ability to have a 3x3 grid of pages and
>> move between them with vi like keys (e.g. Win+h/j/k/l). A little
>> scripting with FvwmPerl makes this easy...
>
> Why FvwmPerl? This why Goto{Page,Desk} exists.
The problem is that GotoDesk treats the desktops as in a line. I can
happily navigate through them as though they were in a line. However I
can't (natively) put them on a 3 by 3 grid and move up down left or
right, like I used to do with pages. (Or at least I don't know how to do
this natively).
Enter FvwmPerl: Super quick fix --
DestroyFunc WrapDesktopCmd
AddToFunc WrapDesktopCmd
+ I SendToModule perlwops preprocess -c $0 0 \
%{ ( int($[desk.n] / 3 ) + $2 ) % 3 * 3 + ($[desk.n] + $1) % 3 }%
after which I could replace all commands of the form
GotoPage wrapx -1p 0p
with
WrapDesktopCmd GotoDesk -1 0
GI
PS: (Pro Fvwm rant.)
On any other WM I would have to bug the developers saying "Hey. I
know the rest of the world puts desktops on a line, and pages on the
grid. But I REALLY want my desktops on a grid, and couldn't give two
hoots about pages. Can you please add a few options to put desktops
on a grid".
This is typically followed by a flame war on the mailing list, and
an inconclusive three months later, you're back to where you
started.
Not for Fvwm! 10 minutes of RTFM and you have what you want.
--
'Consultant' -- Someone who uses your wife's watch, tells you the time,
and then charges you for it.
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Re: FVWM: Desktops versus Pages - how to use?
On Thu, 22 May 2008 15:10:09 -0700
Gautam Iyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> (Or at least I don't know how to
> do this natively).
I don't see how you can be confused. The examples in the manpage might
lead you to believe that Goto{Page,Desk} only operates linearly, but it
really is an x,y operation.
-- Thomas Adam
--
"It was the cruelest game I've ever played and it's played inside my
head." -- "Hush The Warmth", Gorky's Zygotic Mynci.
Re: FVWM: Desktops versus Pages - how to use?
On Thu, May 22, 2008 at 11:15:54PM +0100, Thomas Adam wrote:
>> (Or at least I don't know how to do this natively).
>
> I don't see how you can be confused. The examples in the manpage
> might lead you to believe that Goto{Page,Desk} only operates linearly,
> but it really is an x,y operation.
How would one do this natively with GotoDesk? Say with the desktops on a
3 by 3 grid. With wrapping? (It is of course possible with GotoPage.)
GI
--
'Consciousness' -- That annoying time between naps.
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Re: FVWM: Desktops versus Pages - how to use?
> On Thu, May 22, 2008 at 07:15:46PM +0100, John Latham wrote: > > > From: John Latham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 18:54:17 +0100 (BST) > > > > > * Pages are used as more desk space within each `task', e.g. I might > > > have a web browser open on the Java API in the page next to the one I > > > am writing code in: I can just slide between the two with either the > > > mouse or shortcuts. > > > > Having thought about it more than ever before, I suppose what I'm saying > > here > > is that desktops are associated with tasks, and pages with sub-tasks! > > > > E.g. on one desktop I may be writing a Java text book with an editor and dvi > > viewer on page 0,0 but in page 0,1 I have xfig open to edit diagrams for the > > book. Meanwhile on a different desktop I have my main email client windows > > on > > page 0,0 with maybe some particular emails in process of being written -- > > but > > stalled while I think about them, each on another page of that desktop. > > > That makes it more of an organisational convenience than anything else > though doesn't it. If you named your Pages (or Desktops) to reflect > that organisation would it actually make any difference how they were > implemented? If one was able to (arbitrarily?) nest desktops within another, in some organised shape (e.g. a grid) then, yes, there perhaps would become no distinction between page and desktop. But one cannot do so (I think?). Instead there are exactly two levels of structure: pages within desktop, and they are set up to be used as such. So, the idea, which you like, of scrolling over the edge of a page with the mouse (EdgeScroll) is implemented for changing pages, but (I think?) not for changing desktops, because one wouldn't want it for the latter. And windows (be they larger than the page size or not) can straddle pages, but not desktops (I think?). So, if you don't want to use the two level structure then perhaps your question becomes ``what is the difference between multiple desktops each with one page, and multiple pages in one desktop?'' And I guess the answer is whether or not you can scroll between them with the mouse and allow windows to straddle the boundaries. > Chris Green Thanks, John
Re: FVWM: Desktops versus Pages - how to use?
On Thu, May 22, 2008 at 04:04:07PM -0700, Gautam Iyer wrote:
>>> (Or at least I don't know how to do this natively).
>>
>> I don't see how you can be confused. The examples in the manpage
>> might lead you to believe that Goto{Page,Desk} only operates linearly,
>> but it really is an x,y operation.
>
> How would one do this natively with GotoDesk? Say with the desktops on a
> 3 by 3 grid. With wrapping? (It is of course possible with GotoPage.)
To be more precise: How would I do the analogue of
DesktopSize 3x3
GotoPage wrapx,wrapy 1 1
using GotoDesk?
GI
--
The 10 Commandments of DOS:
5. Thou shall use the one true slash character to separate thy directory
path. Thou shall learn and love this character, even though it appears
on no typewriter keyboard, and is unfamiliar. Standardization on where
that character is located on a computer keyboard is right out.
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Re: FVWM: Desktops versus Pages - how to use?
On Fri, May 23, 2008 at 01:23:50AM +0100, John Latham wrote: > > So, if you don't want to use the two level structure then perhaps your > question becomes ``what is the difference between multiple desktops each with > one page, and multiple pages in one desktop?'' And I guess the answer is > whether or not you can scroll between them with the mouse and allow windows to > straddle the boundaries. > Yes, I think that's exactly it! This discussion has actually been very useful at clarifying what Pages and Desktops do and don't do. Thanks everyone. -- Chris Green
Re: FVWM: Desktops versus Pages - how to use?
On 22May2008 14:57, Chris G <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: | I've never quite made my mind up whether to use several Desktops or | several Pages on one desktop, what are the reasons (if any) for | choosing one or the other? | | I've never found any use for running a program with a window larger | than my screen size, I rarely (but very occasionally) would like to | drag a window from one place to another. I use desktops exclusively. I don't use the Pager either. I never want to drag a window from one to another; I always "push" it because I don't think of desktops/pages as laid out in any particular geometric relationship. So I have Alt-Fn-N bound to "switch to desktop N" and Shift-Fn-N bound to "push this window to desktop N". I also have named desktops in a menu (Alt-D for the menu to switch, Alt-P for the menu that pushes) and a convenient shell command to make and switch to a new desktop at whim. Since I always have a thin shell window across the top of my screen, this is easy. Cheers, -- Cameron Simpson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> DoD#743 http://www.cskk.ezoshosting.com/cs/ Life is like a sandwich, the more you put in, the better it tastes. - Steve B. Hill, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Re: FVWM: Desktops versus Pages - how to use?
On Thu, 22 May 2008, Gautam Iyer wrote:
On Thu, May 22, 2008 at 04:04:07PM -0700, Gautam Iyer wrote:
(Or at least I don't know how to do this natively).
I don't see how you can be confused. The examples in the manpage
might lead you to believe that Goto{Page,Desk} only operates linearly,
but it really is an x,y operation.
How would one do this natively with GotoDesk? Say with the desktops on a
3 by 3 grid. With wrapping? (It is of course possible with GotoPage.)
To be more precise: How would I do the analogue of
DesktopSize 3x3
GotoPage wrapx,wrapy 1 1
using GotoDesk?
GI
You are right, wrapx is difficult, but not wrapy.
I thought about the following bindings
inspired by console switching with C-M-F1..F4.
# switch desk
Key Left A CM PipeRead "echo GotoDesk $((-1+3*($[desk.n]%3==0))) 0 0 8'
Key Right A CM PipeRead "echo GotoDesk $((1-3*($[desk.n]%3==2))) 0 0 8'
Key Up A CM GotoDesk 3 0 0 8
Key Down A CM GotoDesk -3 0 0 8
That should work IMO, but not here, $[desk.n] always expands to 0,
hmmmhm, anyone any idea why?
umu
Re: FVWM: Desktops versus Pages - how to use?
On Sat, 24 May 2008, Ulrich Mueller wrote: # switch desk Key Left A CM PipeRead "echo GotoDesk $((-1+3*($[desk.n]%3==0))) 0 0 8' Key Right A CM PipeRead "echo GotoDesk $((1-3*($[desk.n]%3==2))) 0 0 8' Key Up A CM GotoDesk 3 0 0 8 Key Down A CM GotoDesk -3 0 0 8 quotes at the end of course, sorry I copied by hand, but the question still remains, $[desk.n] always expands to 0... umu
