Re: Broadband hardware - my 2¢
Ugh! *nods* I'm not a moderator, No, really? but Mike, Michael. Name shortening is reserved for friends. your holier-than-thou tirade based on economic philosophy That what you think it was? What is what you wrote? has just earned you time in my penalty box. To quote Linksys tech support: woop de freakin do, 0.0001% of 0.03% of the computing marketshare doesn't like me or comprehend my view point. More power to you. You bought a Linksys, fine it works for you, it's not superior because of economic theory, no matter how much you apply your bias for it. Actually, I didn't. I bought an ABS (white), which has gone dead twice. A buddy does have a linksys though, and it works great so far. Using it to defend poor customer support was a bit weak. Along with economics, I wish reading comprehension was focused on more. I was in no way excusing the tech's behavior, although I would guess that the person most upset in this situation is probably a little more sensitive to certain things than most. My point (going to be very clear here) is that the person said linksys wasn't standing behind their product, when they do NOT say they support it. If I buy office, and call microsoft with a linux question, and then get pissy even though I think linux SHOULD be supported... You cannot decide that a company should support whatever you like, and then say they don't stand behind their product. If you don't get this, I don't know how to explain it any clearer. It really doesn't seem that difficult. Getting poor service is a little different than getting none when something has a warranty/service offer that was paid for. See above. If I buy an iPod and call apple saying I want to get it to work with winXP, they will laugh their asses off and say they can't help you. No one is being turned away from service on supported platforms that I can tell whatsoever, just that one apparently easily excitable person keeps getting tech support pissed at them by insisting they support his platform. Your ipod MAY work on a pc just fine if you get some specific software for it, but apple sure as hell doesn't have to support it and you can't say they weren't standing behind their product, could you? Also what's with this flip-flopping on standards? I've flipped no standards, and you've provided no evidence of such. For the gold standard of your economic philosophy, Linksys should be held to none? ... Ok. I am mentally trying to force this into your ear through pure will. Obviously, reason and certain mindsets do not mix, so this is the last time: If you buy any product from any manufacturer, and use it in ways they did not intend or test for or support (however stupid you think that is) you are on your own, and then demonizing that company for not supporting it is wrong. Fine, Linksys has decided they want to stay in business by screwing their customers and blatently deny them service outright. You start giving me cases where they are doing that to customers who have bought their product and calling in with it on the platforms they support it for and you will have a point. Never heard that. At all. And none has been shown here, except for one person calling in and being told that no, we don't support mac and another one who is very excitable and I can imagine has similar experiences when the wait is too long at starbucks. One or two isolated cases you can pull from anywhere, but systematic, such as you get with certain companies (ala quark), no. So think a little more before you decide to light a petty flame war and waste the rest of our time. *sigh* Really, this was not a flame war. Then again, some people don't get that the simpsons are satire either. This was pointing out how ridiculous certain parts of the mac cult of personality can get, especially when it starts making people feel like they will be lashed out at if they say they LIKE a product. I could care less what anyone buys. I could care less about you- but if you decide to buy a linksys and someone goes after you for it, I'll still think they're indulging in their latent fascist sensibilities a little too much. -- Michael Bryan Bell http://homepage.mac.com/michael_bell/ -- G-Books is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Refurbished Drives | -- Check our web site for refurbished PowerBooks | CDRWs on Sale! | RoadTools $30 PodiumPad available at Apple retail stores, $20 Traveler CoolPad at Staples. Both in white for iBooks at http://roadtools.com. Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html G-Books list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-books.html Send list messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/g-books%40mail.maclaunch.com/ Using a Mac? Free
Re: Broadband hardware - my 2¢ (dying thread)
On Friday, May 10, 2002, at 08:11 AM, Thomas Ethen wrote: Don't sugar coat it Kyle, just go ahead and tell us what you think about Linksys! Tom They deserve every smear that they get. They suck. Let's see if I can summarize this thread so we can all move on LinkSys sucks because they don't support Macs. Some people don't care. Other people do. Move along, these aren't the droids you're looking for. -- G-Books is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Refurbished Drives | -- Check our web site for refurbished PowerBooks | CDRWs on Sale! | RoadTools $30 PodiumPad available at Apple retail stores, $20 Traveler CoolPad at Staples. Both in white for iBooks at http://roadtools.com. Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html G-Books list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-books.html Send list messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/g-books%40mail.maclaunch.com/ Using a Mac? Free email more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com
Re: Broadband hardware - my 2¢
On 5/10/02 6:06 PM, Michael Bryan Bell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ok. I am mentally trying to force this into your ear through pure will. Obviously, reason and certain mindsets do not mix, so this is the last time: If you buy any product from any manufacturer, and use it in ways they did not intend or test for or support (however stupid you think that is) you are on your own, and then demonizing that company for not supporting it is wrong. Wow...I just started reading the broadband thread, seeing that there has been so many letters. I have to agree with Michael. They only support the Windows operating system, so don't expect customer support for it. They have not promised you anything other than it will work on a windows machine. Now if you take your linksys and hook it up to a peecee...and experience the same problem...then they will be more than happy to help you out. I have bought and used linksys routers in the past. I have had no problem with them, but if I did, I wouldn¹t say they suck because they couldn¹t support something they never claimed they would in the first place. Walt -- Happiness is your Mother-In-Law's Picture on the Back of a Milk Carton. -- G-Books is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Refurbished Drives | -- Check our web site for refurbished PowerBooks | CDRWs on Sale! | RoadTools $30 PodiumPad available at Apple retail stores, $20 Traveler CoolPad at Staples. Both in white for iBooks at http://roadtools.com. Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html G-Books list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-books.html Send list messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/g-books%40mail.maclaunch.com/ Using a Mac? Free email more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com
Re: Broadband hardware - my 2¢
makmac wrote: Bryan Forbes on 5/9/02 8:51 AM wrote: On this issue of supporting certain companies, I have to side with Kyle on this. Although I've never purchased a Linksys product nor had contact with them, I have had contact with Asante on different occasions and they have always provided excellent service and stood fully behind their products. While I can't argue against supporting a company that is Mac friendly, and even agree with this point, I have a big problem with how Kyle expresses his point of view. Rather than swaying you to a pro-Mac company by pointing out the positive aspects of their product and support, he belittles list members by bashing their choice of product or limited knowledge of how to use their Apple product. He is often rude, arrogant and condescending. That's because I have grown tired after so many years of the same conversations over and over again. Maybe it is coming through in the supposed timbre of my posts? Maybe you are just interpreting it that way? Who knows. I assure you that I mean you and no one else here any harm or offense. I help far more often than I offend. -- == Kyle H. Hansen Apple Certified Technician Apple Solution Expert Macintosh Server Administrator [EMAIL PROTECTED] == -- G-Books is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Refurbished Drives | -- Check our web site for refurbished PowerBooks | CDRWs on Sale! | RoadTools $30 PodiumPad available at Apple retail stores, $20 Traveler CoolPad at Staples. Both in white for iBooks at http://roadtools.com. Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html G-Books list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-books.html Send list messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/g-books%40mail.maclaunch.com/ Using a Mac? Free email more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com
Common courtesy (was: Re: Broadband hardware - my 2¢)
Kyle Hansen on 5/9/02 1:52 PM wrote: Rather than swaying you to a pro-Mac company by pointing out the positive aspects of their product and support, he belittles list members by bashing their choice of product or limited knowledge of how to use their Apple product. He is often rude, arrogant and condescending. That's because I have grown tired after so many years of the same conversations over and over again. Maybe it is coming through in the supposed timbre of my posts? Maybe you are just interpreting it that way? Who knows. I assure you that I mean you and no one else here any harm or offense. I help far more often than I offend. I can understand growing tired of rehashing the same topics. However the biggest majority of subscribers are fairly new users or have a limited technical knowledge of how their Mac works. To them, their questions are new and it's a first time issue they're dealing with. I'm on the Duo/2400 list, have been for a couple years. There's nothing new to discuss there, just help folks who are new to the Duo. I'm burned out on explaining the same thing over and over so I sit back and read while the others explain. When someone doesn't present an explanation, I try to chime in. Otherwise I keep my yap shut. So I do understand where you're coming from but you catch more flies with honey (ie. converts to pro-Mac companies). Also, I do appreciate your expertise and realize that you've provided a lot of beneficial contributions. Thanks you for that. -makmac -- G-Books is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Refurbished Drives | -- Check our web site for refurbished PowerBooks | CDRWs on Sale! | RoadTools $30 PodiumPad available at Apple retail stores, $20 Traveler CoolPad at Staples. Both in white for iBooks at http://roadtools.com. Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html G-Books list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-books.html Send list messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/g-books%40mail.maclaunch.com/ Using a Mac? Free email more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com
Re: Broadband hardware
As an aspiring Wireless nerd, I contacted Linksys Tech suppt dept by phone, to ask about AppleTalk, and was told We don't have anything to do with Mac, and don't do support for Mac systems. I'd have to side with Kyle, as I was rather suprised that any company would be so prejudice. Thanks, David www.ibookparts.com www.wegenermedia.com In a message dated 5/9/02 2:43:55 PM, you wrote: Why would any Mac user with a brain buy a Linksys product? They are a direct competitor with Farallon and Asante (2 very loyal Mac companies that offer similar products at the same price and fully support the Mac). If you buy a Linksys router you are shooting yourself in the foot! Asante and Farallon make a ton of Mac products...not just routers. Do you want one of them to go out of business? -- G-Books is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Refurbished Drives | -- Check our web site for refurbished PowerBooks | CDRWs on Sale! | RoadTools $30 PodiumPad available at Apple retail stores, $20 Traveler CoolPad at Staples. Both in white for iBooks at http://roadtools.com. Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html G-Books list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-books.html Send list messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/g-books%40mail.maclaunch.com/ Using a Mac? Free email more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com
Re: Broadband hardware
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As an aspiring Wireless nerd, I contacted Linksys Tech suppt dept by phone, to ask about AppleTalk, and was told We don't have anything to do with Mac, and don't do support for Mac systems. That is why I hate Linksys. I really couldn't *believe* the attitude I was given when the tech found out that I was using a Mac. It was so over the top that I was taken aback. -- == Kyle H. Hansen Apple Certified Technician Apple Solution Expert Macintosh Server Administrator [EMAIL PROTECTED] == -- G-Books is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Refurbished Drives | -- Check our web site for refurbished PowerBooks | CDRWs on Sale! | RoadTools $30 PodiumPad available at Apple retail stores, $20 Traveler CoolPad at Staples. Both in white for iBooks at http://roadtools.com. Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html G-Books list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-books.html Send list messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/g-books%40mail.maclaunch.com/ Using a Mac? Free email more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com
Re: Broadband hardware
Thanks everyone for your responses! It's been extremely helpful to hear all the pros and cons, including experiences. I was given a MSN broadband modem a few months ago. It's an Arescom Model ND860VUE-MSN. I assume those MS folks want me to use their service, so they sent me a modem. My question is: Could I use this for a Cable modem with ATT instead? I know this is unsupported on their list of approved modems, but aren't modems pretty much similar? By the way, there is a software install CD. Couldn't I just hook up my Powerbook to the modem without any software? There is no cable jack on the rear of the modem, just a jack that looks like a telephone jack labeled DSL on it. The other jacks on the rear are USB, Ethernet, and power. I understand that ATT will install a cable end in my house, so is there any way to convert a cable into a telephone style jack? Thanks, Vic -- G-Books is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Refurbished Drives | -- Check our web site for refurbished PowerBooks | CDRWs on Sale! | RoadTools $30 PodiumPad available at Apple retail stores, $20 Traveler CoolPad at Staples. Both in white for iBooks at http://roadtools.com. Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html G-Books list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-books.html Send list messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/g-books%40mail.maclaunch.com/ Using a Mac? Free email more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com
Re: Broadband hardware
They bashed ME *personally* on the phone on 2 separate occasions. I was told on the first, that since I was having problems that I should get a real computer and sell my Mac. On the second occasion I was told that they didn't support Macs because Apple was going out of business, and I should dump my Mac ASAP and get a DELL. An apple employee once bashed me on a tech support call, until I got through to a supervisor by calling back. Should I not buy an apple product ever again, even if I like the product? If I like a musicians music, but hate his politics, should I not listen to his music anymore? If I think someone is intelligent, but think many of his emotional opinions are not well thought out, should I completely discount him if he says there is a man behind me with a large steel pipe? This subject has been coming up over and over on these lists for over a year. It is the same thing over and over again. Why would any Mac user with a brain buy a Linksys product? They are a direct competitor with Farallon and Asante (2 very loyal Mac companies that offer similar products at the same price and fully support the Mac). If you buy a Linksys router you are shooting yourself in the foot! Asante and Farallon make a ton of Mac products...not just routers. Do you want one of them to go out of business? I was at Farallon the other day (they are located in Alameda, CA...where I live...No affiliation) and the mood was grim. I was told that other companies were undercutting them by a dollar or 2 and they were losing business. Business is business. Nothing emotional about it. If one product is just as good or better than another for what I want, and at a lower price point, I will buy it. If farallon can't figure out how to make money at their competitors prices, and dies- free market theory says they should. If they can't keep their price point by innovating great features that make their price point worthwhile to consumers, they should die. You have NO loyalty whatsoever to apple. Actually, it should be the other way around. Ie, if for some reason apple completely forgot how to compete again, or got exceptionally greedy again, they should die. Do the Math. If you don't then don't walk around whining when you lose all the products that a company like Farallon or Asante do for us and our platform. *sigh* I really wish they would focus more on economics in our education system. -- Michael Bryan Bell http://homepage.mac.com/michael_bell/ -- G-Books is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Refurbished Drives | -- Check our web site for refurbished PowerBooks | CDRWs on Sale! | RoadTools $30 PodiumPad available at Apple retail stores, $20 Traveler CoolPad at Staples. Both in white for iBooks at http://roadtools.com. Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html G-Books list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-books.html Send list messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/g-books%40mail.maclaunch.com/ Using a Mac? Free email more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com
Re: Broadband hardware
As an aspiring Wireless nerd, I contacted Linksys Tech suppt dept by phone, to ask about AppleTalk, and was told We don't have anything to do with Mac, and don't do support for Mac systems. That is called covering their ass. If they can't help you, they don't walk to talk to you- they aren't supposed to, and they have to move on. That is the way large corporate support works, and why talking to a large company is always different than talking to a small company. The mac is a very niche market right now. If you are trying to compete on a high volume, low margin approach- it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to focus on niche markets, unless they have a large market gap and you can walk in and fill it =without= a lot of competition and added resources. If there is a large market gap (ie, cheap good wireless routers that can support appletalk) and a company can make a profit supporting it- more power to them. But if there isn't, or they don't think there is and their products are good, they shouldn't be bashed for it. In general- bash their product if it has serious defects, but bashing them or people who like their products because their views don't line up with yours isn't good. -- Michael Bryan Bell http://homepage.mac.com/michael_bell/ -- G-Books is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Refurbished Drives | -- Check our web site for refurbished PowerBooks | CDRWs on Sale! | RoadTools $30 PodiumPad available at Apple retail stores, $20 Traveler CoolPad at Staples. Both in white for iBooks at http://roadtools.com. Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html G-Books list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-books.html Send list messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/g-books%40mail.maclaunch.com/ Using a Mac? Free email more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com
Re: Broadband hardware
As an aspiring Wireless nerd, I contacted Linksys Tech suppt dept by phone, to ask about AppleTalk, and was told We don't have anything to do with Mac, and don't do support for Mac systems. That is why I hate Linksys. Why are you so emotional about it as to actually hate an entire company? Dear god, I have issues with MS's business practices but I still bought their intellimouse explorer. I really couldn't *believe* the attitude I was given when the tech found out that I was using a Mac. Well, you're a tech- but I don't know if you have ever worked tech support. It is an extremely low paying job, with hour after hour of the worst, sometimes abusive calls coming in. It is literally the coal mining of computing- I have 2 friends that do it and joke that just like coal mining, you are different when you get out of it. It was so over the top that I was taken aback. Yeah, I know. I got the same feeling reading your messages. Eerie. -- Michael Bryan Bell http://homepage.mac.com/michael_bell/ -- G-Books is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Refurbished Drives | -- Check our web site for refurbished PowerBooks | CDRWs on Sale! | RoadTools $30 PodiumPad available at Apple retail stores, $20 Traveler CoolPad at Staples. Both in white for iBooks at http://roadtools.com. Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html G-Books list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-books.html Send list messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/g-books%40mail.maclaunch.com/ Using a Mac? Free email more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com
Re: Broadband hardware - my 2¢
On this issue of supporting certain companies, I have to side with Kyle on this. Although I've never purchased a Linksys product nor had contact with them, I have had contact with Asante on different occasions and they have always provided excellent service and stood fully behind their products. I do understand the thought process of buying what works and what is less expensive, but what about receiving service after the sale? If the product stops functioning and then you make that phone call for help and they say, no dice, then you are supporting a company that doesn't do business the way it should be done. I prefer to support companies that stand behind their product; if I have to pay a couple of dollars more, so be it. I teach consumer ed at the HS level and sometimes I use this adage with my students, You get what you pay for!. When you spend $ on a product, you are in effect voting for the way that company does business. I prefer not to vote for a company that doesn't stand behind its product, that's why my $ will go to Asante or Farallon. Uh... Maybe I am lost. You have never used their product, or called their line, so can't speak to their customer service. But them saying on the box we support windows XXX but not supporting you when you call with a mac question is not standing behind their product? So far the conversation I've read has been: Linksys does not support my platform of choice. It makes my penis feel smaller, and therefore I feel insecure and fear that maybe I made the wrong choice, and must bash them. Yeah! Yeah! Sorta Yeah! Each person has to make their own decision on their circumstances, but I believe it is important to support companies that make and stand behind their products (and that support compatibility with Apple OS). In this case, they explicitly do not support the mac. It doesn't have a macOS logo on the box. If you call with a windows question and they tell you to take a hike, that would be not supporting their product. If buying from companies that have decided to support the mac is your buying decision- great, you shouldn't be attacked for it, just like others shouldn't be attacked for theirs. -- Michael Bryan Bell http://homepage.mac.com/michael_bell/ -- G-Books is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Refurbished Drives | -- Check our web site for refurbished PowerBooks | CDRWs on Sale! | RoadTools $30 PodiumPad available at Apple retail stores, $20 Traveler CoolPad at Staples. Both in white for iBooks at http://roadtools.com. Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html G-Books list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-books.html Send list messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/g-books%40mail.maclaunch.com/ Using a Mac? Free email more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com
