Re: Safari/Camino/non-IE browser problems?

[Brian Stachowiak]

"I've probably bored the rest
of the list to death by now."

Not at all very interesting info. :)


On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 19:16:04 +, Pete Gregory
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I also have a lot of DNS issues even in IE, for a while half the sites=20
> > I want to visit it'll say it can't find the server, and I just have to=20
> > wait nutil it goes away...
> 
> It could be an issue with a proxy server or your ISP's DNS.   Two or
> three things possibilities to check:
> 
> 1. Try using a different DNS - there are public DNS's out there.
> for each site you have issues with, try checking their ip address first
> e.g. (from terminal) dig www.apple.com
> ask your isp for a list of their dns servers and try
> dig [EMAIL PROTECTED] to check them out
> you can also try dig www.apple.com +trace
> to see where the issues may lie.
> 
> 2. try going through a proxy server such as proxify.com  Assuming you
> can connect to the proxy, you can then determine if the issue is "your
> end" or "their end".
> 
> if you have reliable access to somebody around (e.g. a work machine that
> no one minds your using), see if you can use that as a proxy.   EG I run
> 'squid' on a spare linux box at home so by using a ssh tunnel through,
> it can act as a proxy server from outside.
> 
> 3. Check on the reliability of your link by running (from terminal)
> ping -c 100 -q www.mit.edu
> (I picked on mit because they reply to traceroute & pings - apple doesn't)
> After a while you should get a summary such as
> PING www.mit.edu (18.7.22.83): 56 data bytes
> 
> --- www.mit.edu ping statistics ---
> 100 packets transmitted, 100 packets received, 0% packet loss
> round-trip min/avg/max = 13.616/15.786/28.997 ms
> 
> If you see a lot of packets are dropped or severe latency, try
> traceroute -q 8 !$
> and see where the failures occur.  This MAY show up a duff router etc
> that your isp has.   depending on your route, though some routers may
> not reply to the ping so if it returns * * * * * * * * and later on
> shows replies, you know it's not a problem.
> 
> Send me an email direct if you want more - I've probably bored the rest
> of the list to death by now.
> 
> HTH
> Pete.
> 
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Re: Safari/Camino/non-IE browser problems?

[- drive - drift - dream -]

Weird.  Today when I opened iCab, the bar at the top was back where it 
should be, so I can access preferences and whatnot.  And here I'd just 
thought that for some weird reason, it didn't have one...

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Re: Safari/Camino/non-IE browser problems?

[Pete Gregory]

I also have a lot of DNS issues even in IE, for a while half the sites=20
I want to visit it'll say it can't find the server, and I just have to=20
wait nutil it goes away...
It could be an issue with a proxy server or your ISP's DNS.   Two or 
three things possibilities to check:

1. Try using a different DNS - there are public DNS's out there.
for each site you have issues with, try checking their ip address first 
e.g. (from terminal) dig www.apple.com
ask your isp for a list of their dns servers and try
dig [EMAIL PROTECTED] to check them out
you can also try dig www.apple.com +trace
to see where the issues may lie.

2. try going through a proxy server such as proxify.com  Assuming you 
can connect to the proxy, you can then determine if the issue is "your 
end" or "their end".

if you have reliable access to somebody around (e.g. a work machine that 
no one minds your using), see if you can use that as a proxy.   EG I run 
'squid' on a spare linux box at home so by using a ssh tunnel through, 
it can act as a proxy server from outside.

3. Check on the reliability of your link by running (from terminal)
ping -c 100 -q www.mit.edu
(I picked on mit because they reply to traceroute & pings - apple doesn't)
After a while you should get a summary such as
PING www.mit.edu (18.7.22.83): 56 data bytes
--- www.mit.edu ping statistics ---
100 packets transmitted, 100 packets received, 0% packet loss
round-trip min/avg/max = 13.616/15.786/28.997 ms
If you see a lot of packets are dropped or severe latency, try
traceroute -q 8 !$
and see where the failures occur.  This MAY show up a duff router etc 
that your isp has.   depending on your route, though some routers may 
not reply to the ping so if it returns * * * * * * * * and later on 
shows replies, you know it's not a problem.

Send me an email direct if you want more - I've probably bored the rest 
of the list to death by now.

HTH
Pete.
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Re: Safari/Camino/non-IE browser problems?

[- drive - drift - dream -]

On 16-Feb-05, at 11:48 AM, Bruce Johnson wrote:
Oh, yeah, my incoming/outgoing mail servers through my ISP are pretty 
pissy.  I have a hard time finding an FTP client that works and it 
sometimes gets toasted, too.  I use AOL as well and it frequently has 
trouble getting a complete connection, causing it to not always be 
able to view websites, but can do IM and email fine, usually.  
Instant messaging programs are usually fine.
Get another ISP.
Betcha they're using poorly configured web caching or something, or if 
it's cable, your local segment is hosed.

Don't let 'em tell you it's 'a Mac thing'.
I don't know of many other DSL services in Toronto that aren't just 
business providers.  There's "AOL High Speed Edition", which may or may 
not support Macs and in any case I don't think you can network with it 
as easily, I don't always want to be connected to AOL when I'm online, 
there's Primus, which is evil and screwed me over so bad when they 
bought out the company that provided my dialup service a few years ago 
that I switched to AOL because it was better, and cable is a zillion 
times worse.

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Re: Safari/Camino/non-IE browser problems?

[Bruce Johnson]

On Feb 16, 2005, at 8:38 AM, - drive - drift - dream - wrote:
On 16-Feb-05, at 2:26 AM, Ben Dyer wrote:
Do you have similar problems connecting with other protocols (e.g. 
FTP, POP3, SMTP)? To me, the issues you describe seem similar to 
those caused by high rates of packet loss over your connection; 
however, the fact that IE works doesn't fit in with that hypothesis.
Oh, yeah, my incoming/outgoing mail servers through my ISP are pretty 
pissy.  I have a hard time finding an FTP client that works and it 
sometimes gets toasted, too.  I use AOL as well and it frequently has 
trouble getting a complete connection, causing it to not always be 
able to view websites, but can do IM and email fine, usually.  Instant 
messaging programs are usually fine.
Get another ISP.
Betcha they're using poorly configured web caching or something, or if 
it's cable, your local segment is hosed.

Don't let 'em tell you it's 'a Mac thing'.
--
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pha macy
Information Technology Group
Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs
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Re: Safari/Camino/non-IE browser problems?

[- drive - drift - dream -]

On 16-Feb-05, at 10:44 AM, John C. Swanson wrote:
It sounds to me like something is either overloading your connection or
there is a problem with your DSL 'Modem' or ISP.  If you have any
Windows based systems I would check them for viruses and spyware.
The one Windows machine I do have but rarely use has a recently updated 
antivirus program, and three different anti-spyware programs, all of 
which have been run recently.  It's usually not connected.

The issues seem to also happen when only one machine is connected to 
the internet.  I've used both DSL modems I have with the Windows 
machine I used to use, and even in IE on Windows I get a *lot* of 
"Cannot find server" pages, etc...IE on Mac is *much* better behaved.

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Re: Safari/Camino/non-IE browser problems?

[- drive - drift - dream -]

On 16-Feb-05, at 2:26 AM, Ben Dyer wrote:
Do you have similar problems connecting with other protocols (e.g. 
FTP, POP3, SMTP)? To me, the issues you describe seem similar to those 
caused by high rates of packet loss over your connection; however, the 
fact that IE works doesn't fit in with that hypothesis.
Oh, yeah, my incoming/outgoing mail servers through my ISP are pretty 
pissy.  I have a hard time finding an FTP client that works and it 
sometimes gets toasted, too.  I use AOL as well and it frequently has 
trouble getting a complete connection, causing it to not always be able 
to view websites, but can do IM and email fine, usually.  Instant 
messaging programs are usually fine.

I did what you said and seemed to be getting the source code for the 
main page, so I assume that's working fine, right now.

I also have a lot of DNS issues even in IE, for a while half the sites 
I want to visit it'll say it can't find the server, and I just have to 
wait nutil it goes away...

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Re: Safari/Camino/non-IE browser problems?

[John C. Swanson]

-Original Message-
From: G-Books [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of - drive -
drift - dream -
Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2005 10:38
To: G-Books
Subject: Re: Safari/Camino/non-IE browser problems?

I also have a lot of DNS issues even in IE, for a while half the sites 
I want to visit it'll say it can't find the server, and I just have to 
wait nutil it goes away...

---

It sounds to me like something is either overloading your connection or
there is a problem with your DSL 'Modem' or ISP.  If you have any
Windows based systems I would check them for viruses and spyware.  

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Re: Safari/Camino/non-IE browser problems?

[Ben Dyer]

Do you have similar problems connecting with other protocols (e.g. FTP, 
POP3, SMTP)? To me, the issues you describe seem similar to those 
caused by high rates of packet loss over your connection; however, the 
fact that IE works doesn't fit in with that hypothesis.

Just a check: try opening Terminal, and typing "telnet www.apple.com 
80", hitting return, waiting a couple of seconds, typing "GET /", and 
hitting return again. What happens? If everything is working correctly, 
you should see a large amount of text outputted within a few seconds of 
you typing the commands.

Cheers,
Ben
On 16 Feb 2005, at 10:49, - drive - drift - dream - wrote:
Does anyone else have problems using any browser other than IE, or is 
it just  me/my router/my ISP?  I've gotten along reasonably well with 
just IE until I installed Panther, where it seems to crash more, and 
until more sites started not working in IE...

I've tried Netscape, Opera, Camino, Mozilla, Firefox, Safari, iCab, 
and OmniWeb, always a similar problem.  There's a few sites I'm forced 
to use Camino for, like Gmail, so it's irritating.  In all of these 
browsers, I almost always have to stop-reload-stop-reload-stop-reload 
a zillion times before any page will load, though for some like Safari 
and OmniWeb, the first page or two will load, and then nothing else 
period (for Safari) or nothing else without the stop-reload thing 
frequently (OmniWeb).  iCab works very slightly better than OmniWeb, 
loads and doesn't load in fits and spurts, though it's lack of a bar 
at the top window and no preferences place that I can find.

The rest, you're lucky to even load the start page!
This occurs with all Macs connected to this network, wired or 
wireless, Jaguar or Panther.  It does not happen when the same 
machines are moved to another network using different providers and 
routers.  Changing ISPs is not an option.

Anyone else have this problem?  If so, what kind of router/ISP do you 
use?  Is there any sort of setting I have to change that's on by 
default for all these browsers?

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Re: Safari/Camino/non-IE browser problems?

[- drive - drift - dream -]

On 15-Feb-05, at 11:36 PM, Timothy Luoma wrote:
Not strange settings my ISP or router would need set differently from 
default?  Argh.  I was hoping it might be something fixable on my 
end.
Did it used to work and then stop?  It's highly unlikely IMO that 
there'd be some strange setting, unless your ISP was doing something 
very non-standard.
Nope, it's been a problem the entire time I've had the Macs and tried 
to use any browser other than IE (first few months of my Mac use, I 
never tried any other browser, next several months I was on a different 
ISP).

Yeah, same thing happens, though.
Have you tried making a new administrator account on the computer, 
logging completely out of your old account and into the new account, 
and then try to connect?  I'm completely pulling this out of the air, 
but it might be worth a shot.
No, it's not a specific computer thing, I've run four different Macs on 
this connection and they've *all* had the same problem.  It'd have to 
be some default setting, if it were on the machines, so to fix them, 
I'd have to know what the thing was and how to fix it, rather than just 
 another default setup.

If it isn't your software and it isn't your hardware, then your 
options are to live with it or get your ISP to help diagnose the 
problem.
If you don't die of old age on hold until someone picks up the phone, 
you find thhey don't seem to know dick all about Macs, and they say 
just use IE.
Ah yes, the old tech support lemmings...
Let me guess, you live in a rural area with few broadband options?  
(there are NONE where I live, so I can relate)
No, I live in downtown Toronto, where you can get DSL through Sympatico 
or cable through Rogers (which, in a highly populated area, is far 
worse - used the free trial last year and it was horrible!  I'm not 
sure I thought to check other browsers during the short time we tried 
that, though...), and before we got DSL there was this line of sight 
from the CN Tower broadband thing that *never* worked.

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Re: Safari/Camino/non-IE browser problems?

[Timothy Luoma]

On Feb 15, 2005, at 9:01 PM, - drive - drift - dream - wrote:
On 15-Feb-05, at 8:43 PM, Timothy Luoma wrote:
It does not happen when the same machines are moved to another 
network using different providers and routers.  Changing ISPs is not 
an option.
If it doesn't happen when the machines are on another network, then 
there's a problem with your network connection, not your browser.
Not strange settings my ISP or router would need set differently from 
default?  Argh.  I was hoping it might be something fixable on my end.
Did it used to work and then stop?  It's highly unlikely IMO that 
there'd be some strange setting, unless your ISP was doing something 
very non-standard.

Have you tried removing the router and directly connecting one of the 
machines to your Internet connection?  It could be your router is 
bad.
Yeah, same thing happens, though.
Have you tried making a new administrator account on the computer, 
logging completely out of your old account and into the new account, 
and then try to connect?  I'm completely pulling this out of the air, 
but it might be worth a shot.

If it isn't your software and it isn't your hardware, then your 
options are to live with it or get your ISP to help diagnose the 
problem.
If you don't die of old age on hold until someone picks up the phone, 
you find thhey don't seem to know dick all about Macs, and they say 
just use IE.
Ah yes, the old tech support lemmings...
Let me guess, you live in a rural area with few broadband options?  
(there are NONE where I live, so I can relate)

TjL
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Re: Safari/Camino/non-IE browser problems?

[- drive - drift - dream -]

On 15-Feb-05, at 8:43 PM, Timothy Luoma wrote:
It does not happen when the same machines are moved to another 
network using different providers and routers.  Changing ISPs is not 
an option.
If it doesn't happen when the machines are on another network, then 
there's a problem with your network connection, not your browser.
Not strange settings my ISP or router would need set differently from 
default?  Argh.  I was hoping it might be something fixable on my end.

Have you tried removing the router and directly connecting one of the 
machines to your Internet connection?  It could be your router is bad.
Yeah, same thing happens, though.
If it isn't your software and it isn't your hardware, then your 
options are to live with it or get your ISP to help diagnose the 
problem.
If you don't die of old age on hold until someone picks up the phone, 
you find thhey don't seem to know dick all about Macs, and they say 
just use IE.

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Re: Safari/Camino/non-IE browser problems?

[Timothy Luoma]

On Feb 15, 2005, at 6:49 PM, - drive - drift - dream - wrote:
It does not happen when the same machines are moved to another network 
using different providers and routers.  Changing ISPs is not an 
option.
If it doesn't happen when the machines are on another network, then 
there's a problem with your network connection, not your browser.

Have you tried removing the router and directly connecting one of the 
machines to your Internet connection?  It could be your router is bad.

If it isn't your software and it isn't your hardware, then your options 
are to live with it or get your ISP to help diagnose the problem.

TjL
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Re: Safari/Camino/non-IE browser problems?

[Laurent Daudelin]

on 15/02/05 18:49, - drive - drift - dream - at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> Does anyone else have problems using any browser other than IE, or is
> it just  me/my router/my ISP?  I've gotten along reasonably well with
> just IE until I installed Panther, where it seems to crash more, and
> until more sites started not working in IE...
> 
> I've tried Netscape, Opera, Camino, Mozilla, Firefox, Safari, iCab, and
> OmniWeb, always a similar problem.  There's a few sites I'm forced to
> use Camino for, like Gmail, so it's irritating.  In all of these
> browsers, I almost always have to stop-reload-stop-reload-stop-reload a
> zillion times before any page will load, though for some like Safari
> and OmniWeb, the first page or two will load, and then nothing else
> period (for Safari) or nothing else without the stop-reload thing
> frequently (OmniWeb).  iCab works very slightly better than OmniWeb,
> loads and doesn't load in fits and spurts, though it's lack of a bar at
> the top window and no preferences place that I can find.
> 
> The rest, you're lucky to even load the start page!
> 
> This occurs with all Macs connected to this network, wired or wireless,
> Jaguar or Panther.  It does not happen when the same machines are moved
> to another network using different providers and routers.  Changing
> ISPs is not an option.
> 
> Anyone else have this problem?  If so, what kind of router/ISP do you
> use?  Is there any sort of setting I have to change that's on by
> default for all these browsers?
> 

No problem here with Safari...

-Laurent.
-- 

Laurent Daudelin   AIM/iChat: LaurentDaudelin
Logiciels Nemesys Software   mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

careware /keir'weir/ n.: A variety of shareware for which either the author
suggests that some payment be made to a nominated charity or a levy directed
to charity is included on top of the distribution charge. Syn. charityware;
compare crippleware, sense 2. 



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Safari/Camino/non-IE browser problems?

[- drive - drift - dream -]

Does anyone else have problems using any browser other than IE, or is 
it just  me/my router/my ISP?  I've gotten along reasonably well with 
just IE until I installed Panther, where it seems to crash more, and 
until more sites started not working in IE...

I've tried Netscape, Opera, Camino, Mozilla, Firefox, Safari, iCab, and 
OmniWeb, always a similar problem.  There's a few sites I'm forced to 
use Camino for, like Gmail, so it's irritating.  In all of these 
browsers, I almost always have to stop-reload-stop-reload-stop-reload a 
zillion times before any page will load, though for some like Safari 
and OmniWeb, the first page or two will load, and then nothing else 
period (for Safari) or nothing else without the stop-reload thing 
frequently (OmniWeb).  iCab works very slightly better than OmniWeb, 
loads and doesn't load in fits and spurts, though it's lack of a bar at 
the top window and no preferences place that I can find.

The rest, you're lucky to even load the start page!
This occurs with all Macs connected to this network, wired or wireless, 
Jaguar or Panther.  It does not happen when the same machines are moved 
to another network using different providers and routers.  Changing 
ISPs is not an option.

Anyone else have this problem?  If so, what kind of router/ISP do you 
use?  Is there any sort of setting I have to change that's on by 
default for all these browsers?

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