Re: powerbook opinion

[Jon Glass]

on 11/26/02 3:40 PM, Laurent Daudelin at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

>> Does the G4 upgrade for the Pismo offer these speed benefits of the AltiVec
>> and Quartz Extreme?
> 
> AltiVec yes, Quartz Extreme no.

Thanks!
-- 
-Jon Glass
Krakow, Poland
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

"Our Constitution was made
only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the
government of any other." --John Adams


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Re: powerbook opinion

[Laurent Daudelin]

on 26/11/02 04:19, Jon Glass at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
[snip!]
> Does the G4 upgrade for the Pismo offer these speed benefits of the AltiVec
> and Quartz Extreme?

AltiVec yes, Quartz Extreme no.

-Laurent.
-- 

Laurent Daudelin   AIM/iChat: LaurentDaudelin
Logiciels Nemesys Software   mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

bug-compatible adj.: [common] Said of a design or revision that has been
badly compromised by a requirement to be compatible with fossils or
misfeatures in other programs or (esp.) previous releases of itself. "MS-DOS
2.0 used \ as apath separator to be bug-compatible with some cretin's choice
of / as an option character in 1.0." 


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Re: powerbook opinion

[wappling]

RE;yes a crystal ball would be helpful,Im presantly on my second mac,haveing
worn the first one(9500) into a smoldering heap in two years,and now this
one in a little over three,I think expansion when I purchase,but I havent
really done very much, as I have learned the more I try to add the more the
machine becomes problematic,to nearly unuseable in the presant situation.the
presant I-book comes better equiped than the G4 350 sawtooth with the the
add-ons.so my thinking is this machine OS9.2.2 as is for existing
peripherals,and the I-book for OS X.then maybe next time move up to a more
expensive machine when I have some better Idea just what to get,because
right now Im more confused than usual. except that its comes out cheaper to
replace this machine than to repair and upgrade it for OSX,just my
opinion,and thankyou for the help


> 
>> But the big change came with Mac OS X, the first Mac OS to use the
>> "velocity engine" by default. At this point, I would hesitate to
>> recommend buying a new G3 model if you ever plan to run OS X. AltiVec
>> makes that much difference with Aqua -- or at least it did before Quartz
>> Extreme.
> 
> This is the sort of thing I wish I had a crystal ball to tell when I bought
> my Pismo. When I bought mine, the G4 had just come out, and none of the
> information I could find anywhere showed that the G4 offered any real speed
> benefits over the Pismo, and that the Pismo offered much better expansion
> options, as well as a proven track record. I went for the Pismo. I can't say
> I've regretted my decision, but then again, I'm still running 9.2.2. I don't
> feel any pressure to go to X, but might, were I to have a G4 Powerbook.
> 
> Does the G4 upgrade for the Pismo offer these speed benefits of the AltiVec
> and Quartz Extreme?


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Re: powerbook opinion

[Jon Glass]

on 11/25/02 6:10 PM, Dan Knight at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> But the big change came with Mac OS X, the first Mac OS to use the
> "velocity engine" by default. At this point, I would hesitate to
> recommend buying a new G3 model if you ever plan to run OS X. AltiVec
> makes that much difference with Aqua -- or at least it did before Quartz
> Extreme.

This is the sort of thing I wish I had a crystal ball to tell when I bought
my Pismo. When I bought mine, the G4 had just come out, and none of the
information I could find anywhere showed that the G4 offered any real speed
benefits over the Pismo, and that the Pismo offered much better expansion
options, as well as a proven track record. I went for the Pismo. I can't say
I've regretted my decision, but then again, I'm still running 9.2.2. I don't
feel any pressure to go to X, but might, were I to have a G4 Powerbook.

Does the G4 upgrade for the Pismo offer these speed benefits of the AltiVec
and Quartz Extreme?
-- 
-Jon Glass
Krakow, Poland


"[T]he law . . . dictated by God Himself is, of course, superior in
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Re: powerbook opinion

[Laurent Daudelin]

On 25/11/02 12:10, "Dan Knight" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
[snip!]
> Count me among them. Best solution: I now use a wireless mouse and
> keyboard at home.
> 

I'd like to know which one you're using (the mouse). I've tried the
Intellimouse wireless for some time, but was not able to get used to the
delay that was happening every time the mouse was going to sleep...

-Laurent.
-- 
===
Laurent DaudelinDeveloper, Multifamily, ESO, Fannie Mae
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]   Washington, DC, USA
* Usual disclaimers apply *



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Re: powerbook opinion

[Dan Knight]

Jeremy Derr writes:

>> 1) G3 Processor as opposed to the G4 Processor - not really much of a
>> difference at this stage, as many applications do not take advantage 
>> of the Altivec instruction set in the G4.
>
>Altivec is not the only difference between the G4 and G3. Generally 
>speaking, a G4 is a faster processor at the same clock speed ... not by 
>much, but the difference is there. The G4 system also has a faster 
>system bus than the iBook, IIRC, and supports more memory (max 640MB in 
>iBook, max 1GB in G4).

Let's not get confused comparing apples and oranges, CPUs and the 
computers they go in.

When the G4 was first introduced, benchmark after benchmark found it was 
no faster than the G3 -- until they created benchmarks that used the 
AltiVec version of Photoshop, etc. In that era, unless you used Photoshop 
or did video editing, the G4 had no advantage over the G3.

Both processors have evolved since then. Today they each have an on-chip 
level 2 cache that runs at full CPU speed. They support faster bus 
speeds. And there have been other minor tweaks as well. Todays G3 and G4 
performance can not be directly equated with the differences back when 
the G4 first shipped.

But the big change came with Mac OS X, the first Mac OS to use the 
"velocity engine" by default. At this point, I would hesitate to 
recommend buying a new G3 model if you ever plan to run OS X. AltiVec 
makes that much difference with Aqua -- or at least it did before Quartz 
Extreme.

Looking at the computers themselves, if you would benefit from the 
additional screen real estate, the ability to have a second monitor, or 
Mac OS X, seriously consider the PowerBook G4.

If 1024x768 is fine, you don't need screen spanning, and you don't intend 
to migrate to OS X (or do, but don't need the best performance), the 
iBook is a stunning value.

Issues such as system bus pale in comparison to things like video chips, 
drive speed, screen resolution, etc. Those are the real world differences 
that impact your ongoing use of the computer far more than a 25% 
difference in bus speed.

>this has nothing to do with US-vs-Non-US... some people even here in 
>the states have reported static on the case - just gander over at 
>MacInTouch.

Count me among them. Best solution: I now use a wireless mouse and 
keyboard at home.


-- 
Dan Knight, president, Cobweb Publishing, Inc.
  
  
   

Bill Gates was so impressed by the iMac that they were going
to offer the blue-screen-of-death in a choice of colours. ;-)


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Re: Powerbook opinion

[Lorri Carr]

On Monday, November 25, 2002, Matthew B. Dwyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:

> I use a Powerbook G4 550, and my fiancee uses an iBook, so I've 
> compared
> them quite a bit. The newer Powerbooks do not have an irda port, but 
> mine
> does, and I love it, especially for synching to my handheld while on 
> the
> road, no need to drag around extra cradles and cords. I also cannot
> overstate the usefulness of the cardbus slot, which gives great
> expandability to the Powerbook. The iBook has neither irda nor cardbus.

The iBook also has but one slot for RAM, and you cannot even put in a 
new hard drive yourself. Its A/V capabilities are limited, too, but it 
is designed as a hyperportable / low end item.

I don't find the cardbus as useful as it once was. Certain cardbus 
items (ex. peripheral hard drive shuttle) cannot be read in OS X. It is 
convenient to transfer digital camera pictures via PCMCIA Compact Flash 
adapter rather than dragging my EasyShare dock on the road. Infrared 
has its uses now, but it will soon be going the way of the Dodo with 
the ascendance of Bluetooth for digicams, camcorders, printers, and 
cell phone/PDA's.

Lor



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Powerbook opinion

[Matthew B. Dwyer]

Hello,

I use a Powerbook G4 550, and my fiancee uses an iBook, so I've compared
them quite a bit. The newer Powerbooks do not have an irda port, but mine
does, and I love it, especially for synching to my handheld while on the
road, no need to drag around extra cradles and cords. I also cannot
overstate the usefulness of the cardbus slot, which gives great
expandability to the Powerbook. The iBook has neither irda nor cardbus.

-Matthew


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Re: powerbook opinion

[wappling]

RE; wow!! thankyou very much,you really covered everything well enough to
help me a great deal.I'll go with an I-book this purchase,by the time (about
three years) or a little less I'll think about a powerbook next
time.thankyou again  best wishes


on 11/24/02 11:15 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] at [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

> 
> As someone who has used both a PowerBook G4 (667MHz) and an iBook (or
> iceBook), I would base the choice on the following observations about the
> machines:
> 
>


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Re: powerbook opinion

[Jeremy Derr]

On Sunday, November 24, 2002, at 10:15  PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

> As someone who has used both a PowerBook G4 (667MHz) and an iBook (or
> iceBook), I would base the choice on the following observations about 
> the
> machines:
>
> *iBook 800
>  [ ... snip ... ]
> Cons:-
> 1) G3 Processor as opposed to the G4 Processor - not really much of a
> difference at this stage, as many applications do not take advantage 
> of the
> Altivec instruction set in the G4.

Altivec is not the only difference between the G4 and G3. Generally 
speaking, a G4 is a faster processor at the same clock speed ... not by 
much, but the difference is there. The G4 system also has a faster 
system bus than the iBook, IIRC, and supports more memory (max 640MB in 
iBook, max 1GB in G4).

> *PowerBook G4 (New)
>  [ ... snip ... ]
> Cons:
> 4) Metal case susceptable to static (zap) when used outside the USA 
> due to
> different AC voltage levels overseas. I've encountered many cases of 
> this
> here in Asia.

this has nothing to do with US-vs-Non-US... some people even here in 
the states have reported static on the case - just gander over at 
MacInTouch.

> 6) Slot load optical drives are rather fragile and more susceptable to
> damage than the iBook's tray loading ones.

i've dealt with FAR more people who've physically broken the tray off 
their drive (not just iBook, older G3's and various PCs) than have had 
problems with slot-loading drives.


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Re: powerbook opinion

[Mark_PHILIP]

As someone who has used both a PowerBook G4 (667MHz) and an iBook (or
iceBook), I would base the choice on the following observations about the
machines:

*iBook 800
Pros:-
1) Very sturdy and strong polycarbonate case
2) G3 processor runs much cooler than the PowerBook G4 case
3) Smaller form factor (12.1" LCD model) makes it more flexible when it
comes to travelling.
4) Will run most applications (if not all) as well as the PowerBook G4 -
you'll need to up the RAM to handle more applications.
5) Better airport reception than PowerBook.

Cons:-
1) G3 Processor as opposed to the G4 Processor - not really much of a
difference at this stage, as many applications do not take advantage of the
Altivec instruction set in the G4.
2) No audio-in jack.
3) No PCMCIA slot.
4) White polycarbonate case tends to show highlight scratches.
5) Horrible to disassemble and upgrade hard drive.

*PowerBook G4 (New)
Pros:-
1) Large hi-res screen - useful if you are into serious graphics
manipulation and video editing
2) Superdrive - why not?
3) Thin form factor & very light
4) PCMCIA slot
5) Audio-in jack
6) Gigabit Ethernet - handy to have, especially since more switches are
going Gigabit. Provides for increased network speeds.
7) Looks professional
8) Excellent internal design means it's very easy to upgrade RAM and hard
drives.

Cons:
1) Titanium enclosure tends to dent easily - especially at the top lid.
Ouuch!
2) Titanium coloured metal around the keyboard susceptable to fading and
peeling. I'm not sure if this has been changed on the 800s, but this was
certainly the case on many 400/500s.
3) Poorer Airport reception than iBook.
4) Metal case susceptable to static (zap) when used outside the USA due to
different AC voltage levels overseas. I've encountered many cases of this
here in Asia.
5) G4 processor runs rather warm and this can be felt throughout the metal
casing.
6) Slot load optical drives are rather fragile and more susceptable to
damage than the iBook's tray loading ones.

For me, I would rather go for the iBook if my needs are not very high-end.
I've met numerous PowerBook G4 owners who tell me that they have regretted
their decision to purchase the PowerBook based on the quality problems that
they had (paint peeling/bubbling, static issues etc). Of course, if you
take good care of the machine, the paint issue would not be much of a
problem. I prefer the plastic feel of the iBook as opposed to the metal
case of the PowerBook G4.

It's really based on your needs at this point in time. An extra US$800 is a
lot and you will need to justify it with your needs. I'm using the older
black PowerBook (Pismo 400MHz - also referred to as PowerBook 2000) and it
works well with OSX 10.2.1. Your iBook should outperform this Pismo in
leaps and bounds. I personally prefer the Pismo in terms of durability.


Hope that helps,


Mark.





 

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<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
(G-Books)
Sent by:  cc:  
     
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: powerbook opinion   
 
aunch.com> 
 
(G-Books)  
 
   
 
   
 
24/11/2002 0743 AM 
 
Please respond to  

Re: powerbook opinion

[Donald Keenan]

I have picked up several G3 machines since my love affair with Apple 
began this year:
Pismo
iBook 466 SE
2 G3 iMacs 600 mhz
I'm tempted to pick up a G3 450 mhz Ruby for my "collection" but I'm 
also learning to use web development apps and PhotoShop. It's clear to 
me now that a G4 with the biggest possible screen should be my next 
investment.
You might want to consider the ability to take advantage of QE and 
AltiVec that a nice PowerBook provides. If you want to have the option 
of using any program out there for the mac platform, consider the 
PowerBook. I want a G4 myself. The $800 difference is a lot of cash, 
however.
On another note: PowerBooks are way cooler than any other machine out 
there, practical matters aside :)
Getting a new mac is fun, whatever it is! Next time I get one, I'm going 
to have one of those "unwrapping" ceremonies.
Donald

On Saturday, November 23, 2002, at 06:43 PM, Eugene Lee wrote:

> : Hi all,Im seriously looking at a new laptop,my most logical choice is 
> a new
> : I-book 800 12in screen at about 11:00 to 12:00 hundred range,howver 
> the
> : powerbook at 2000 is I think beutiful,besides the larger screen and 
> made of
> : metal,is there any other real advantages to it over the I-book?,I 
> mean 8:00
> : hundred dollars worth? thankyou for opinions helping me decide,though
> : finances will probaly rule.
>
> PowerBooks have their advantages.  Many apps (including parts of OS X)
> will use the G4 processor and thus provide even more speed benefits.
> Its bus speed is 133 MHz (iBook is 100 MHz).  The wider LCD screen is
> also helpful if you need the real estate, and it's driven by the ATI
> Mobility Radeon 9000 chip (iBook is ATI Mobility Radeon 7500).  Also,
> importantly, the PowerBook has multiple monitor spanning, whereas the
> iBook can only do video mirroring.  And for external LCD monitors, the
> PowerBook has DVI output.  On the audio side, it has an audio line in
> minijack (iBook doesn't have one, so you'll have to use some kind of
> external USB solution).  It also has Gigabit Ethernet (iBook is only
> 10/100Base-T), can go up to 1 GB of RAM (iBook maxes at 640 MB), and
> still has a PCMCIA slot for expandability (iBook does *not* have one).
> And with the flagship Titanium, you get a DVD-R SuperDrive (which I'm
> guessing iBooks will not get for several years until prices drop).


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Re: powerbook opinion

[Eugene Lee]

On Sat, Nov 23, 2002 at 02:08:24AM -0500, wappling wrote:
: 
: Hi all,Im seriously looking at a new laptop,my most logical choice is a new
: I-book 800 12in screen at about 11:00 to 12:00 hundred range,howver the
: powerbook at 2000 is I think beutiful,besides the larger screen and made of
: metal,is there any other real advantages to it over the I-book?,I mean 8:00
: hundred dollars worth? thankyou for opinions helping me decide,though
: finances will probaly rule.

PowerBooks have their advantages.  Many apps (including parts of OS X)
will use the G4 processor and thus provide even more speed benefits.  
Its bus speed is 133 MHz (iBook is 100 MHz).  The wider LCD screen is
also helpful if you need the real estate, and it's driven by the ATI
Mobility Radeon 9000 chip (iBook is ATI Mobility Radeon 7500).  Also,
importantly, the PowerBook has multiple monitor spanning, whereas the
iBook can only do video mirroring.  And for external LCD monitors, the
PowerBook has DVI output.  On the audio side, it has an audio line in
minijack (iBook doesn't have one, so you'll have to use some kind of
external USB solution).  It also has Gigabit Ethernet (iBook is only
10/100Base-T), can go up to 1 GB of RAM (iBook maxes at 640 MB), and
still has a PCMCIA slot for expandability (iBook does *not* have one).
And with the flagship Titanium, you get a DVD-R SuperDrive (which I'm
guessing iBooks will not get for several years until prices drop).

The iBook does have its advantages.  It's far cheaper (price matters).
Its plastic shell seems to make it more durable, less susceptible to
scratches and paint chipping issues, and more Airport friendly with
better range.  Also, because its CD-ROM drive is tray-loading, you can
play CD-Singles, business-card mini-CDs, and anything that doesn't fit
the standard 5" disc (whereas you can jam or destroy your slot-loading
drive on a PowerBook).


-- 
Eugene Lee
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: powerbook opinion

[Jeremy Derr]

On Saturday, November 23, 2002, at 10:40 AM, Laurent Daudelin wrote:

> on 23/11/02 02:08, wappling at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
>> Hi all,Im seriously looking at a new laptop,my most logical choice is 
>> a new
>> I-book 800 12in screen at about 11:00 to 12:00 hundred range,howver 
>> the
>> powerbook at 2000 is I think beutiful,besides the larger screen and 
>> made of
>> metal,is there any other real advantages to it over the I-book?,I 
>> mean 8:00
>> hundred dollars worth? thankyou for opinions helping me decide,though
>> finances will probaly rule.
>
> I love my PowerBook 2000. It has style. However, I don't know what you 
> mean
> with "made of metal". I mean, the case is all made of plastic. I don't 
> know
> which kind of plastic, but plastic anyway. The is definitely a frame 
> inside
> that is probably made of some metal (magnesium?), but I don't think 
> that the
> PowerBook 2000 has more metal than the iBook. Now, does it feel 
> sturdier
> than the iBook? I don't know, I never had the latest iBook in my 
> hands...

i think he was talking about the price :)

IMHO, it all depends on what you're doing with it, as to whether the 
extra cost is worth it.

if you're playing a few games, browsing the web, and checking email 
mostly, with small smatterings of iMovie thrown in for good measure, 
the iBook is a great option at a great value.

if you're spending most of your time in content creation apps 
(PhotoShop, iMovie, Quark, Final Cut Pro), then the PowerBook G4 is the 
way to go.


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Re: powerbook opinion

[Bruce Johnson]

On Saturday, November 23, 2002, at 12:08  AM, wappling wrote:

> Hi all,Im seriously looking at a new laptop,my most logical choice is 
> a new
> I-book 800 12in screen at about 11:00 to 12:00 hundred range,howver the
> powerbook at 2000 is I think beutiful,besides the larger screen and 
> made of
> metal,is there any other real advantages to it over the I-book?,I mean 
> 8:00
> hundred dollars worth? thankyou for opinions helping me decide,though
> finances will probaly rule.

The Powerbook has a larger screen, an 867 MHz G4 instead of a G3, and 
allows an attached monitor to span your desktop instead of just mirror 
the screen. It comes with twice the memory and faster video. and a 
third again larger hard drive (40gb vs 30), and gigabit ethernet vs 
10/100 in the iBook.

The iBook is cheaper, sturdier,(imo, this is just from handling some of 
each), slightly lighter, and nearly as fast. (though the Altivec in the 
G4 does speed up OSX somewhat, and certainly will make a difference in 
apps that use it, like iTunes and Photoshop)

The iBook has all of it's connections off the side of the system, 
instead of in back. This is both good and bad...it's a big pain if 
youre connected to a bunch of stuff, when the space where you put books 
and papers is taken up by cables, but it's more of a hassle to get at 
them in the Powerbook.

Since I'd personally consider the 14" iBook, that would narrow the gap 
considerably, and make it a much harder choice.

> --
Wherever you go, there you are.

Bruce Johnson



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Re: powerbook opinion

[Laurent Daudelin]

on 23/11/02 02:08, wappling at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> Hi all,Im seriously looking at a new laptop,my most logical choice is a new
> I-book 800 12in screen at about 11:00 to 12:00 hundred range,howver the
> powerbook at 2000 is I think beutiful,besides the larger screen and made of
> metal,is there any other real advantages to it over the I-book?,I mean 8:00
> hundred dollars worth? thankyou for opinions helping me decide,though
> finances will probaly rule.

I love my PowerBook 2000. It has style. However, I don't know what you mean
with "made of metal". I mean, the case is all made of plastic. I don't know
which kind of plastic, but plastic anyway. The is definitely a frame inside
that is probably made of some metal (magnesium?), but I don't think that the
PowerBook 2000 has more metal than the iBook. Now, does it feel sturdier
than the iBook? I don't know, I never had the latest iBook in my hands...

-Laurent.
-- 

Laurent Daudelin   AIM/iChat: LaurentDaudelin
Logiciels Nemesys Software   mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

field servoid [play on `android'] /fee'ld ser'voyd/ n.: Representative of a
field service organization (see field circus). This has many of the
implications of droid.


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powerbook opinion

[wappling]

Hi all,Im seriously looking at a new laptop,my most logical choice is a new
I-book 800 12in screen at about 11:00 to 12:00 hundred range,howver the
powerbook at 2000 is I think beutiful,besides the larger screen and made of
metal,is there any other real advantages to it over the I-book?,I mean 8:00
hundred dollars worth? thankyou for opinions helping me decide,though
finances will probaly rule.


-- 
G-Books is sponsored by  and...

 Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com  | Refurbished Drives |
 -- Check our web site for refurbished PowerBooks  |  & CDRWs on Sale!  |

  Support Low End Mac 

G-Books list info:  
  --> AOL users, remove "mailto:";
Send list messages to:  
To unsubscribe, email:  
For digest mode, email: 
Subscription questions: 
Archive: 



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>The Think Different Store
http://www.ThinkDifferentStore.com
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