Re: Multiple HDs in Sawtooth
You didn't say, but putting in 3 drives I'm guessing you are thinking of a RAID setup? I have a single 15K/15MB cache SCSI hard drive in a Sawtooth. Using a fast drive with a big cache gives a very nice R/W speed without going to multiple RAID drives. The big advantages are: 1) Less heat- fast SCSI drives get really hot and the case design of the Sawtooth isn't that great for venting heat from the OEM hard drive sleds. I put my drive on a cooler and mounted it on top of the optical drive, where the PSU fan can pull the heat straight out. You don't need Apple OEM gear, just buy a good quality LVD SCSI cable with an active terminator. 2) In a RAID 0 setup if you lose any one of your drives you lose the whole system. And if you try to cram 3 or 4 hard drives into a Sawtooth the odds are good that the heat will kill one of them. I had two 15K drives running as RAID 0 in a Digital Audio and, despite each have an additional fan, one went bad. I think it was still running too hot. Now with just a single SCSI drive it's been running reliably and I barely notice any real-world performance difference in the R/W speed. If you want to run 3 fast SCSI drives it might be better to use a card with good external ports, like a UL3D or UL4D, and put them in an external housing. The drives and the Sawtooth will run a lot cooler. On Mar 24, 6:08 pm, nestamicky nestami...@gmail.com wrote: Hurray...I'm going SCSI's on my Sawtooth...well, as soon as I get the help I need. I'm trying to figure out how to safely install more than a single HD in the Sawtooth. Ideas...someone here must have done it. This is a physical issue, of course I know how to hook them up...but where would I physically place 3 SCSIs and maybe an ATA as well. Is this possible? Thanks a lot! --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Multiple HDs in Sawtooth
Precisely as regards putting those SCSI drives in their own external case, with their own power supply. You can daisy chain them with a terminal at the end of the chain and the original connection to the UL3D or UL4D or maybe a UL2D which should also work. Mel --- On Wed, 3/25/09, dc dbc...@verizon.net wrote: From: dc dbc...@verizon.net Subject: Re: Multiple HDs in Sawtooth To: G3-5 List g3-5-list@googlegroups.com Date: Wednesday, March 25, 2009, 4:53 AM You didn't say, but putting in 3 drives I'm guessing you are thinking of a RAID setup? I have a single 15K/15MB cache SCSI hard drive in a Sawtooth. Using a fast drive with a big cache gives a very nice R/W speed without going to multiple RAID drives. The big advantages are: 1) Less heat- fast SCSI drives get really hot and the case design of the Sawtooth isn't that great for venting heat from the OEM hard drive sleds. I put my drive on a cooler and mounted it on top of the optical drive, where the PSU fan can pull the heat straight out. You don't need Apple OEM gear, just buy a good quality LVD SCSI cable with an active terminator. 2) In a RAID 0 setup if you lose any one of your drives you lose the whole system. And if you try to cram 3 or 4 hard drives into a Sawtooth the odds are good that the heat will kill one of them. I had two 15K drives running as RAID 0 in a Digital Audio and, despite each have an additional fan, one went bad. I think it was still running too hot. Now with just a single SCSI drive it's been running reliably and I barely notice any real-world performance difference in the R/W speed. If you want to run 3 fast SCSI drives it might be better to use a card with good external ports, like a UL3D or UL4D, and put them in an external housing. The drives and the Sawtooth will run a lot cooler. On Mar 24, 6:08 pm, nestamicky nestami...@gmail.com wrote: Hurray...I'm going SCSI's on my Sawtooth...well, as soon as I get the help I need. I'm trying to figure out how to safely install more than a single HD in the Sawtooth. Ideas...someone here must have done it. This is a physical issue, of course I know how to hook them up...but where would I physically place 3 SCSIs and maybe an ATA as well. Is this possible? Thanks a lot! --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Cover Flow
At 11:05 PM -0700 3/24/2009, Kyle Hansen wrote: Ok. I am stumped. Using 10.5 I frequently use the cover flow feature that lets you flip through pictures in a folder. Occasionally those pictures show up as generic JPEG icons and not thumbnails. Anyone got an idea on why this is happening? Cover flow does its thing by generating thumbnails on the fly, then caching them. From what I can tell, especially on older/slower Macs, it falls behind itself then gets lost in cache management overhead. Might be worth trying to clear its cache... - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Multiple HDs in Sawtooth
Mel wrote: Precisely as regards putting those SCSI drives in their own external case, with their own power supply. You can daisy chain them with a terminal at the end of the chain and the original connection to the UL3D or UL4D or maybe a UL2D which should also work. Mel --- On *Wed, 3/25/09, dc /dbc...@verizon.net/* wrote: From: dc dbc...@verizon.net Subject: Re: Multiple HDs in Sawtooth To: G3-5 List g3-5-list@googlegroups.com Date: Wednesday, March 25, 2009, 4:53 AM You didn't say, but putting in 3 drives I'm guessing you are thinking of a RAID setup? I have a single 15K/15MB cache SCSI hard drive in a Sawtooth. Using a fast drive with a big cache gives a very nice R/W speed without going to multiple RAID drives. The big advantages are: 1) Less heat- fast SCSI drives get really hot and the case design of the Sawtooth isn't that great for venting heat from the OEM hard drive sleds. I put my drive on a cooler and mounted it on top of the optical drive, where the PSU fan can pull the heat straight out. You don't need Apple OEM gear, just buy a good quality LVD SCSI cable with an active terminator. 2) In a RAID 0 setup if you lose any one of your drives you lose the whole system. And if you try to cram 3 or 4 hard drives into a Sawtooth the odds are good that the heat will kill one of them. I had two 15K drives running as RAID 0 in a Digital Audio and, despite each have an additional fan, one went bad. I think it was still running too hot. Now with just a single SCSI drive it's been running reliably and I barely notice any real-world performance difference in the R/W speed. If you want to run 3 fast SCSI drives it might be better to use a card with good external ports, like a UL3D or UL4D, and put them in an external housing. The drives and the Sawtooth will run a lot cooler. On Mar 24, 6:08 pm, nestamicky nestami...@gmail.com /mc/compose?to=nestami...@gmail.com wrote: Hurray...I'm going SCSI's on my Sawtooth...well, as soon as I get the help I need. I'm trying to figure out how to safely install more than a single HD in the Sawtooth. Ideas...someone here must have done it. This is a physical issue, of course I know how to hook them up...but where would I physically place 3 SCSIs and maybe an ATA as well. Is this possible? Thanks a lot! I had not thought about putting the HDs into an external case, but would have to now. I was not thinking of a RAID setup, but may do so. I have the SCSI card and cable bought together from someone who had the lot in a Sawtooth, along with the same drive. I was not thinking about HDs getting hot, but that's a real concern. I'd hate for these SCSI HDs to go bad. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Slightly OT: The weirdest computer cleaning question ever
I'm pretty sure they work simply by using a very fine grit, so they're like sand paper. I've never seen any warnings on the box, so I think whoever told you that may be mistaken. Maybe there are some brands that do use chemicals... I think the Scotch ones are best, they have a blue side for wiping off the grit left by the white sanding side. Cyrus Griffin Hobbittech.com Mac Specialist - Low Cost Mac Services in AZ On Mar 24, 2009, at 2:55 PM, Jonas Ulrich wrote: We buy cleaning supplies at a place here in town and they told us that there are harsh chemicals in the foam erasers that give them their cleaning power. It really isn't good for you hands. -Jonas On Mon, Mar 23, 2009 at 9:46 PM, Cyrus Griffin callmemrp...@gmail.com wrote: It's true! They also are great for taking scuff marks off Macs. (But not with smooth plastics, like the iMacs) I use them all the time, never use gloves not sure why you would need to. It might not work very well on cement, however, which is what I believe he was trying to remove the stain from... You could sure try, however! Cyrus Griffin Hobbittech.com Mac Specialist - Low Cost Mac Services in AZ On Mar 23, 2009, at 1:53 PM, Jonas Ulrich wrote: Try Mr. Clean Magic Foam Erasers. Those things clean everything up. Just make sure you use rubber gloves. -Jonas On Mon, Mar 23, 2009 at 10:13 AM, Steve R mailing.lists.2...@gmail.com wrote: At 7:49 AM -0700 3/23/09, Mel posted: Is this product sold in the states (USA)? The link shows only Canadian stores. Mel solution with australian tea tree oil in it -- Home Hardware's Natura spray cleaner -- and discovered that the day old coffee stain wasn't the only thing it wiped from the desk. The set-in ink stain disappeared too. http://www.homehardware.ca/Products/index/show/product/I4580929/name/cleaner_a_p_natura_650ml http://www.homehardware.ca/Products/index/show/product/I4580929/name/cleaner_a_p_natura_650ml I'm sure the reason the cleaner works is because of the main ingredient, australian tee tree oil, so I'd imagine similar products are being sold in the US. (I've also found it works great on shower enclosures and glass, lime scale and removing coffee stains from a rug. It 'almost' removed black marker and probably will next time around or if I can find someone who hasn't torn both rotator cuffs to do the scrubbing.) My sister's friend turned me on to it because the strokes have lessened my strength and I needed a stronger cleaner. Steve R --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Cover Flow
On Mar 24, 2009, at 11:05 PM, Kyle Hansen wrote: Occasionally those pictures show up as generic JPEG icons and not thumbnails. Anyone got an idea on why this is happening? Let it catch up to generating the thumbnails. This will happen when you flip though too fast on a slower machine. -- Bruce Johnson University of Arizona College of Pharmacy Information Technology Group Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Help! I've lost one harddrive and now the main harddrive won't boot!
On Mar 23, 4:10 pm, Dan dantear...@gmail.com wrote: At 3:04 PM -0400 3/23/2009, insightinmind wrote: The answer then seemed to be yes ... zeroing a partition would cause the controller to map out any bad sectors. Not seems - is. Yes. The controller ALWAYS maps out bad blocks whenever they're found, during any type of read or write operation. If I may summarize the discussion about bad sectors. Bad sectors (blocks) get mapped out on the fly during normal read/ write operations. Bad sectors (blocks) get mapped out within a volume/partition when you zero the volume/partition in Disk Utility or some other tool. Bad sectors (blocks) get mapped out on the hard drive when you zero the entire hard drive in Disk Utility or some other tool. Secure Erase (also Secure Empty Trash) zeros whatever sectors had been previously written to and therefore maps out any bad sectors previously written to, and only those. Zeroing does not equal mapping out. Check? Al Poulin --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Help! I've lost one harddrive and now the main harddrive won't boot!
At 9:17 AM -0700 3/25/2009, Al Poulin wrote: If I may summarize the discussion about bad sectors. Bad sectors (blocks) get mapped out on the fly during normal read/write operations. Bad sectors (blocks) get mapped out within a volume/partition when you zero the volume/partition in Disk Utility or some other tool. Bad sectors (blocks) get mapped out on the hard drive when you zero the entire hard drive in Disk Utility or some other tool. Correct. Secure Erase (also Secure Empty Trash) zeros whatever sectors had been previously written to and therefore maps out any bad sectors previously written to, and only those. The secure erase features use a varying bit pattern, not all zeros. Same effect tho, wrt triggering bad block mapping. Zeroing does not equal mapping out. Mapping out bad blocks is handled by the controller. Zeroing is a higher level function, done by the app (Disk Utility, etc). - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Installing 3rd Party Drivers under OS X 10.5.6
At 4:58 PM -0400 3/19/2009, insightinmind wrote: Running AppleJack may have solved the problem. Well a big part was resolved with a clean system provided by AppleJack. At 8:58 AM -0400 3/20/2009, Bill Connelly wrote: I had another Blue Screen freeze this AM. May be not related to the M-Audio drivers? I may have restarted too quickly one time, and its possible Spotlight was still running? or actually, I was trying to access the Dock too quickly, before everything had finished loading ... seemed to remember having a kp at that point this time ... Half the panic logs point to the M-Audio driver. The other half point to the VIDEO card! Not good. Try pulling that card and making sure all the contacts are clean, etc. If you have a diff video card you can try, that might be helpful. The other half ... goodness. I only thought when I changed video cards (from a new ATI Radeon 9800 Pro ME back to the Geforce 4MX) did I get a kp ... which seemed to straighten itself out with several restarts. After AppleJack, I'm back to using the ATI Radeon 9800 Pro ME, along with a replacement M-Audio 2496, my Rosewill NIC and Sonnet USB/FW with no Startup issues. I think both my video cards are ok. Another kp yesterday morning, amongst Spotlight Indexing (Sibelius things?) indicated the video card again ... so, I removed it and cleaned the contacts, removing a small amount of something with alcohol and hard cotton swab. Also cleaned out the AGP slot with a vacuum cleaner and long plastic low-flow attachment (carefully). So far it seems to be running again, but since I am close to end of Warranty, I went on and put in for an RMA. Know of any way to test such a thing other than watch it with repeated startups? Several of the crash logs show mdworker failed. It is part of Spotlight's indexing system. The importer being used at the time of the crash was com.sibelius.MDImporter.score. That suggests either a) Sibelius' importer is buggy OR b) your disk needs repairing, and perhaps there are some corrupted files of the type that importer is accessing. I may need to re-install some Sibelius Save fixes ... they are OS X 10.5 specific. I switched back from 10.5 to 10.4.11 to try to escape my audio card woes ... and noticed Sibelius went bazzerk in the logs ... While indexing yesterday, I got a kp. Sibelius suggested removing SibeliusScore.mdimporter from its app package. Simple enough. Now no kps due to that, but could feel loss of capability of Spotlight along with this solution. Thanks again for helping clean up this mess: M-Audio, Sibelius, ATI ... is this an OS X 10.5.6 test of 3rd party folks? I may be partially to blame for trying to use Tiger and Leopard off the same application installations ... well same for the app package; separate, for whatever each put on the OS X partitions. Bill Connelly artsite: http://mysite.verizon.net/moonstoneartstudio myspace: http://www.myspace.com/moonstoneartstudio --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Installing 3rd Party Drivers under OS X 10.5.6
At 12:18 PM -0400 3/25/2009, insightinmind wrote: Another kp yesterday morning, amongst Spotlight Indexing (Sibelius things?) indicated the video card again ... so, I removed it and cleaned the contacts, removing a small amount of something with alcohol and hard cotton swab. Also cleaned out the AGP slot with a vacuum cleaner and long plastic low-flow attachment (carefully). So far it seems to be running again, but since I am close to end of Warranty, I went on and put in for an RMA. Good plan! Know of any way to test such a thing other than watch it with repeated startups? I'm sure the vendors involved have low-level diagnostics, but they won't be letting us mere mortals have 'em. Several of the crash logs show mdworker failed. It is part of Spotlight's indexing system. The importer being used at the time of the crash was com.sibelius.MDImporter.score. That suggests either a) Sibelius' importer is buggy OR b) your disk needs repairing, and perhaps there are some corrupted files of the type that importer is accessing. I may need to re-install some Sibelius Save fixes ... they are OS X 10.5 specific. I switched back from 10.5 to 10.4.11 to try to escape my audio card woes ... and noticed Sibelius went bazzerk in the logs ... While indexing yesterday, I got a kp. Sibelius suggested removing SibeliusScore.mdimporter from its app package. Simple enough. Now no kps due to that, but could feel loss of capability of Spotlight along with this solution. The kernel panics were not caused by that importer. Those were simple spotlight indexing crashes. Two separate issues. Now that you've pulled that importer, it might be worth erasing your spotlight index, and letting it rebuild cleanly. Just be sure that while your Mac is rebuilding the index, don't logout or let it sleep. heh. Actually, might be better to just not use it - so you don't kp from a video or m-audio problem. - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Installing 3rd Party Drivers under OS X 10.5.6
On Mar 25, 2009, at 1:12 PM, Dan wrote: While indexing yesterday, I got a kp. Sibelius suggested removing SibeliusScore.mdimporter from its app package. Simple enough. Now no kps due to that, but could feel loss of capability of Spotlight along with this solution. The kernel panics were not caused by that importer. Those were simple spotlight indexing crashes. Two separate issues. Now that you've pulled that importer, it might be worth erasing your spotlight index, and letting it rebuild cleanly. Just be sure that while your Mac is rebuilding the index, don't logout or let it sleep. heh. Actually, might be better to just not use it - so you don't kp from a video or m-audio problem. Maybe replace the Sibelius importer, and run CocktailLE for Leopard to erase the index files, and see if new ones solve the problems? Cocktail in demo mode? Or Add / Remove volume names from the Spotlight Privacy List (supposedly causes Spotlight to re-index the volumes)? I found these references while googling Spotlight: Discussion for (Tiger) Spotlight http://www.thexlab.com/faqs/stopspotlightindex.html CocktailLE demo http://www.maintain.se/cocktail/download.php I was/am hoping to just let Spotlight run, but at times I may have done (probably) a Restart before it had finished. I think I want to let it run, and run to completion, so I can use my OS and apps as normal ... whatever that is. According to Cocktail developers, looks like 10.5.7 is en route ... Bill Connelly artsite: http://mysite.verizon.net/moonstoneartstudio myspace: http://www.myspace.com/moonstoneartstudio --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Help! I've lost one harddrive and now the main harddrive won't boot!
On Mar 25, 12:51 pm, Dan dantear...@gmail.com wrote: At 9:17 AM -0700 3/25/2009, Al Poulin wrote: Bad sectors (blocks) get mapped out on the fly during normal read/write operations. Correct. So, unlike the advice of 5 -10 years ago, we no longer need to map out bad blocks in an entire hard drive every two or three years just to reduce risk of problems. Many thanks, Al Poulin --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Help! I've lost one harddrive and now the main harddrive won't boot!
At 10:47 AM -0700 3/25/2009, Al Poulin wrote: On Mar 25, 12:51 pm, Dan dantear...@gmail.com wrote: At 9:17 AM -0700 3/25/2009, Al Poulin wrote: Bad sectors (blocks) get mapped out on the fly during normal read/write operations. Correct. So, unlike the advice of 5 -10 years ago Drives were very different back then. The controllers were much less intelligent, so the work was done up in the OS (driver and other layers). And today's media is supposed to last longer and have better data retention. \\although this is belied by the manufacturers' posting absurdly high MTBF numbers then cutting their warranty periods from 5 to 3 or even 1 year. You'd think if the drives were really better, they'd be willing to stand behind them - at least as a marketing thing.\\ heh. YMMV. Trust No One. , we no longer need to map out bad blocks in an entire hard drive every two or three years just to reduce risk of problems. Depends on a lot of factors... Entropy and Murphy guarantee that all media degrades. If you don't access a particular piece of data, then nothing will trigger the bad block replacement mechanism. That means you could have bad blocks - and corrupted data - sitting around, and not even know it. Personally, I still like fully exercise my HDs every few years. I use a major OS upgrade as the excuse to zero the drive and reload it. Just a quick clone backup, zero, clone restore... - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Installing 3rd Party Drivers under OS X 10.5.6
At 2:00 PM -0400 3/25/2009, insightinmind wrote: On Mar 25, 2009, at 1:12 PM, Dan wrote: While indexing yesterday, I got a kp. Sibelius suggested removing SibeliusScore.mdimporter from its app package. Simple enough. Now no kps due to that, but could feel loss of capability of Spotlight along with this solution. The kernel panics were not caused by that importer. Those were simple spotlight indexing crashes. Two separate issues. Now that you've pulled that importer, it might be worth erasing your spotlight index, and letting it rebuild cleanly. Just be sure that while your Mac is rebuilding the index, don't logout or let it sleep. heh. Actually, might be better to just not use it - so you don't kp from a video or m-audio problem. Maybe replace the Sibelius importer, and run CocktailLE for Leopard to erase the index files, and see if new ones solve the problems? Joke the fancy tools. Just issue the mdutil commands yourself. sudo mdutil -i off /Volumes/fred sudo mdutil -E /Volumes/fred sudo mdutil -i on /Volumes/fred I was/am hoping to just let Spotlight run, but at times I may have done (probably) a Restart before it had finished. I think I want to let it run, and run to completion, so I can use my OS and apps as normal ... whatever that is. Absolutely let Spotlight finish its indexing before interrupting it in any way. Spotlight is *known* to corrupt indices when interrupted. You can tell it's finished because all the md* processes have idled or ended. - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Multiple HDs in Sawtooth
could someone explain to me what exactly a raid setup is?-Jonas On 3/25/09, nestamicky nestami...@gmail.com wrote: Mel wrote: Precisely as regards putting those SCSI drives in their own external case, with their own power supply. You can daisy chain them with a terminal at the end of the chain and the original connection to the UL3D or UL4D or maybe a UL2D which should also work. Mel --- On *Wed, 3/25/09, dc dbc...@verizon.net dbc...@verizon.net* wrote: From: dc dbc...@verizon.net dbc...@verizon.net Subject: Re: Multiple HDs in Sawtooth To: G3-5 List g3-5-list@googlegroups.com g3-5-list@googlegroups.com Date: Wednesday, March 25, 2009, 4:53 AM You didn't say, but putting in 3 drives I'm guessing you are thinking of a RAID setup? I have a single 15K/15MB cache SCSI hard drive in a Sawtooth. Using a fast drive with a big cache gives a very nice R/W speed without going to multiple RAID drives. The big advantages are: 1) Less heat- fast SCSI drives get really hot and the case design of the Sawtooth isn't that great for venting heat from the OEM hard drive sleds. I put my drive on a cooler and mounted it on top of the optical drive, where the PSU fan can pull the heat straight out. You don't need Apple OEM gear, just buy a good quality LVD SCSI cable with an active terminator. 2) In a RAID 0 setup if you lose any one of your drives you lose the whole system. And if you try to cram 3 or 4 hard drives into a Sawtooth the odds are good that the heat will kill one of them. I had two 15K drives running as RAID 0 in a Digital Audio and, despite each have an additional fan, one went bad. I think it was still running too hot. Now with just a single SCSI drive it's been running reliably and I barely notice any real-world performance difference in the R/W speed. If you want to run 3 fast SCSI drives it might be better to use a card with good external ports, like a UL3D or UL4D, and put them in an external housing. The drives and the Sawtooth will run a lot cooler. On Mar 24, 6:08 pm, nestamicky nestami...@gmail.comhttp://mc/compose?to=nestami...@gmail.com wrote: Hurray...I'm going SCSI's on my Sawtooth...well, as soon as I get the help I need. I'm trying to figure out how to safely install more than a single HD in the Sawtooth. Ideas...someone here must have done it. This is a physical issue, of course I know how to hook them up...but where would I physically place 3 SCSIs and maybe an ATA as well. Is this possible? Thanks a lot! I had not thought about putting the HDs into an external case, but would have to now. I was not thinking of a RAID setup, but may do so. I have the SCSI card and cable bought together from someone who had the lot in a Sawtooth, along with the same drive. I was not thinking about HDs getting hot, but that's a real concern. I'd hate for these SCSI HDs to go bad. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Upgrade to Leopard leaves mailboxes empty
I just upgraded from Tiger 10.4.11 to Leopard 10.5.6, and everything seems to be normal in Leopard, except for Mail. When I open Mail, although all my mailboxes are there, they're empty. How do I get all my stored messages back into those mailboxes? Tom --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Multiple HDs in Sawtooth
On Mar 24, 2009, at 6:59 PM, Jonas Ulrich wrote: If the sawtooth setup is pretty much like the gigabit ethernet set up... you should already have three places to mound hd's in the bottem of the case although you may have to get another hd sled, and if you take out the zip drive you have another place. -Jonas Yes. there are three bays in the bottom of the case. Plus you can get a double-decker bracket for putting two drives in one bay (at least in the first bay--the one toward the back of the case). There's also the spot underneath the optical drive. You can put another drive there, though it would probably be difficult to use any other cable but the second IDE bus (the one the optical drive is on) routed to that spot. == Joe the Juggler 4148 Wyoming St. St. Louis, MO 63116 (314) 771-3243 http://joethejuggler.com == --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
dvd to dvd is there a simple way?
I have a homemade dvd of camp-out movies that my folks took years ago and put them on a dvd. I need to make copies for my brother and sisters. I've tried dragging the video-ts folder to the blank disk and burning it, but it won't play in a standard dvd player? I used to do it in toast but sold the program months ago. Is there a way to do this in the finder using disk utility? Thanks in advance. Jeff Jeff Engle kamiah idaho 83536 --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: dvd to dvd is there a simple way?
I have a homemade dvd of camp-out movies that my folks took years ago and put them on a dvd. I need to make copies for my brother and sisters. I've tried dragging the video-ts folder to the blank disk and burning it, but it won't play in a standard dvd player? I used to do it in toast but sold the program months ago. Is there a way to do this in the finder using disk utility? Thanks in advance. Jeff Jeff Engle kamiah idaho 83536 Yes, there is, and it's pretty easy. First, you need to open up Disk Utility. On the left sidebar, you'll see your devices list. Select the DVD you want to make a copy of, and then go to File New... Disk Image from your device name. Change Image Format to DVD/CD Master, and leave Encryption on none. Pick an appropriate location to save. Once you've done that and it finishes creating your disk image, you can right-click it or control-click it in Finder and open it up in Disk Utility, or go to File Open Disk Image. This may mount it, but it will also place it in the left sidebar of Disk Utility. Once it's there, you can select it, and click Burn on the top of the Disk Utility window. Then burn as many copies as you want. I hope that helps! Isaac --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: dvd to dvd is there a simple way?
THANKS ISAAC!! On Mar 25, 2009, at 2:44 PM, Isaac Smith wrote: I have a homemade dvd of camp-out movies that my folks took years ago and put them on a dvd. I need to make copies for my brother and sisters. I've tried dragging the video-ts folder to the blank disk and burning it, but it won't play in a standard dvd player? I used to do it in toast but sold the program months ago. Is there a way to do this in the finder using disk utility? Thanks in advance. Jeff Jeff Engle kamiah idaho 83536 Yes, there is, and it's pretty easy. First, you need to open up Disk Utility. On the left sidebar, you'll see your devices list. Select the DVD you want to make a copy of, and then go to File New... Disk Image from your device name. Change Image Format to DVD/CD Master, and leave Encryption on none. Pick an appropriate location to save. Once you've done that and it finishes creating your disk image, you can right-click it or control-click it in Finder and open it up in Disk Utility, or go to File Open Disk Image. This may mount it, but it will also place it in the left sidebar of Disk Utility. Once it's there, you can select it, and click Burn on the top of the Disk Utility window. Then burn as many copies as you want. I hope that helps! Isaac --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: dvd to dvd is there a simple way?
On Mar 25, 2009, at 4:44 PM, Isaac Smith wrote: Yes, there is, and it's pretty easy. First, you need to open up Disk Utility. On the left sidebar, you'll see your devices list. Select the DVD you want to make a copy of, and then go to File New... Disk Image from your device name. Change Image Format to DVD/CD Master, and leave Encryption on none. Pick an appropriate location to save. Once you've done that and it finishes creating your disk image, you can right-click it or control-click it in Finder and open it up in Disk Utility, or go to File Open Disk Image. This may mount it, but it will also place it in the left sidebar of Disk Utility. Once it's there, you can select it, and click Burn on the top of the Disk Utility window. Then burn as many copies as you want. Can't he just highlight the mounted DVD and press the Burn button without making the Image file? --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: dvd to dvd is there a simple way?
On Mar 25, 2009, at 3:15 PM, Kris Tilford wrote: On Mar 25, 2009, at 4:44 PM, Isaac Smith wrote: Yes, there is, and it's pretty easy. First, you need to open up Disk Utility. On the left sidebar, you'll see your devices list. Select the DVD you want to make a copy of, and then go to File New... Disk Image from your device name. Change Image Format to DVD/CD Master, and leave Encryption on none. Pick an appropriate location to save. Once you've done that and it finishes creating your disk image, you can right-click it or control-click it in Finder and open it up in Disk Utility, or go to File Open Disk Image. This may mount it, but it will also place it in the left sidebar of Disk Utility. Once it's there, you can select it, and click Burn on the top of the Disk Utility window. Then burn as many copies as you want. Can't he just highlight the mounted DVD and press the Burn button without making the Image file? I think you need two optical drives (one being a superdrive) to do it that way? hmm.. Jeff --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: dvd to dvd is there a simple way?
Yes, there is, and it's pretty easy. First, you need to open up Disk Utility. On the left sidebar, you'll see your devices list. Select the DVD you want to make a copy of, and then go to File New... Disk Image from your device name. Change Image Format to DVD/CD Master, and leave Encryption on none. Pick an appropriate location to save. Once you've done that and it finishes creating your disk image, you can right-click it or control-click it in Finder and open it up in Disk Utility, or go to File Open Disk Image. This may mount it, but it will also place it in the left sidebar of Disk Utility. Once it's there, you can select it, and click Burn on the top of the Disk Utility window. Then burn as many copies as you want. Can't he just highlight the mounted DVD and press the Burn button without making the Image file? Only if he has two drives. Otherwise, I think you need the image file. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
RSPlug Trojan horse for Mac OS X
http://www.sophos.com/blogs/gc/g/2009/03/25/apple-mac-malware-caught-camera/ --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Upgrade to Leopard leaves mailboxes empty
I'm working on it. Nobody here seems to have any ideas. Looks like I might have to delete my e-mail account, set it up all over again, and then try to import my old mailboxes from a backup copy of Mail from the Library. So this is the great Leopard, is it? What a mess, so far, with Mail thoroughly screwed up by the upgrade. It was working fine in Tiger. I wonder what else in Leopard is all fouled up, when I go to use it? Before moving on to other bad surprises I'll try to fix Mail. I only upgraded to Leopard because I wanted Time Machine for automatic backups, otherwise I wouldn't have done it. I regret it now. Tom --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Upgrade to Leopard leaves mailboxes empty
On Mar 25, 2009, at 6:13 PM, Tom wrote: So this is the great Leopard, is it? What a mess, so far, with Mail thoroughly screwed up by the upgrade. I've been silent because, you are the first person I've run into with this issue. I've updated about 20 systems with no problems other than having to re-install networked printers (and this is only because I usually do ArchiveInstall instead of update. The one person who did an update said his printers worked just fine.) Are the files there in ~/Library/Mail? What kind of mail account is it? POP or IMAP? Have you tried rebuilding your mailboxes? -- Bruce Johnson Wherever you go, there you are B. Banzai, PhD --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Upgrade to Leopard leaves mailboxes empty
On Mar 25, 2009, at 8:13 PM, Tom wrote: I'm working on it. Nobody here seems to have any ideas. Looks like I might have to delete my e-mail account, set it up all over again, and then try to import my old mailboxes from a backup copy of Mail from the Library. So this is the great Leopard, is it? What a mess, so far, with Mail thoroughly screwed up by the upgrade. It was working fine in Tiger. I wonder what else in Leopard is all fouled up, when I go to use it? Before moving on to other bad surprises I'll try to fix Mail. I only upgraded to Leopard because I wanted Time Machine for automatic backups, otherwise I wouldn't have done it. I regret it now. Tom Admittedly, once I got my working preferences restored - re- establishing the mail account from step one- every thing that had been in a folder was returned to its folder. Every thing that was merely sitting in my inbox was gone. It may exist somewhere on the hard drive- but haven't found it yet.. I upgraded because the last Quicktime upgrade killed off my daughters Sims game, and my Civilization, (Aspyr) and the only known fix was 10.5 jbeque...@tconl.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: dvd to dvd is there a simple way?
On Mar 25, 2009, at 5:23 PM, Isaac Smith wrote: Can't he just highlight the mounted DVD and press the Burn button without making the Image file? Only if he has two drives. Otherwise, I think you need the image file. Duh. I knew I forgot something! I'm glad I have external DVD-R units and have never had to do this rigmarole for a copy. Copies with a single drive would be a pain. An alternate solution would be fire up another Mac in Target Disk mode and use the Firewire cable to use the other Macs drive for dual drive direct copies. By the way, whenever I've needed an image of any disk, I've always been skeptical of Disk Utility and other programs because they used to screw up images of bootable Mac installer CDs and DVDs so that copies made from these images were not bootable. I guess they may be better now, but I always used Terminal command line to create perfect, bootable .iso images of virtually anything. It's a bit-for-bit copy, with any DRM, or hidden anti-copy stuff still present. See: http://www.slashdotdash.net/2006/08/14/create-iso-cd-dvd-image-with-mac-os-x-tiger-10-4/ --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: RSPlug Trojan horse for Mac OS X
At 7:08 PM -0400 3/25/2009, Steve R wrote: http://www.sophos.com/blogs/gc/g/2009/03/25/apple-mac-malware-caught-camera/ Yet-another lame-a** piece of software that hops up'n'down like a snotty kid begging for you to install it. sigh. Accidentally discovered Oakie (our ancient cat) loves pumpkin cake. Haven't seen her in such a feeding frenzy in a while. sigh. Didn't know she was spry enough to get to that table... - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Slightly OT: The weirdest computer cleaning question ever
No, this I do know. I've used the Magic Eraser product repeatedly, and it definitely works solely through solvent action -- not abrasion. On Mar 25, 11:09 am, Cyrus Griffin callmemrp...@gmail.com wrote: I'm pretty sure they work simply by using a very fine grit, so they're like sand paper. I've never seen any warnings on the box, so I think whoever told you that may be mistaken. Maybe there are some brands that do use chemicals... I think the Scotch ones are best, they have a blue side for wiping off the grit left by the white sanding side. Cyrus Griffin Hobbittech.com Mac Specialist - Low Cost Mac Services in AZ On Mar 24, 2009, at 2:55 PM, Jonas Ulrich wrote: We buy cleaning supplies at a place here in town and they told us that there are harsh chemicals in the foam erasers that give them their cleaning power. It really isn't good for you hands. -Jonas On Mon, Mar 23, 2009 at 9:46 PM, Cyrus Griffin callmemrp...@gmail.com wrote: It's true! They also are great for taking scuff marks off Macs. (But not with smooth plastics, like the iMacs) I use them all the time, never use gloves not sure why you would need to. It might not work very well on cement, however, which is what I believe he was trying to remove the stain from... You could sure try, however! Cyrus Griffin Hobbittech.com Mac Specialist - Low Cost Mac Services in AZ On Mar 23, 2009, at 1:53 PM, Jonas Ulrich wrote: Try Mr. Clean Magic Foam Erasers. Those things clean everything up. Just make sure you use rubber gloves. -Jonas On Mon, Mar 23, 2009 at 10:13 AM, Steve R mailing.lists.2...@gmail.com wrote: At 7:49 AM -0700 3/23/09, Mel posted: Is this product sold in the states (USA)? The link shows only Canadian stores. Mel solution with australian tea tree oil in it -- Home Hardware's Natura spray cleaner -- and discovered that the day old coffee stain wasn't the only thing it wiped from the desk. The set-in ink stain disappeared too. http://www.homehardware.ca/Products/index/show/product/I4580929/name/... http://www.homehardware.ca/Products/index/show/product/I4580929/name/... I'm sure the reason the cleaner works is because of the main ingredient, australian tee tree oil, so I'd imagine similar products are being sold in the US. (I've also found it works great on shower enclosures and glass, lime scale and removing coffee stains from a rug. It 'almost' removed black marker and probably will next time around or if I can find someone who hasn't torn both rotator cuffs to do the scrubbing.) My sister's friend turned me on to it because the strokes have lessened my strength and I needed a stronger cleaner. Steve R --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: dvd to dvd is there a simple way?
On Mar 25, 2009, at 7:33 PM, Kris Tilford wrote: On Mar 25, 2009, at 5:23 PM, Isaac Smith wrote: Can't he just highlight the mounted DVD and press the Burn button without making the Image file? Only if he has two drives. Otherwise, I think you need the image file. Duh. I knew I forgot something! I'm glad I have external DVD-R units and have never had to do this rigmarole for a copy. Copies with a single drive would be a pain. An alternate solution would be fire up another Mac in Target Disk mode and use the Firewire cable to use the other Macs drive for dual drive direct copies. By the way, whenever I've needed an image of any disk, I've always been skeptical of Disk Utility and other programs because they used to screw up images of bootable Mac installer CDs and DVDs so that copies made from these images were not bootable. I guess they may be better now, but I always used Terminal command line to create perfect, bootable .iso images of virtually anything. It's a bit-for-bit copy, with any DRM, or hidden anti-copy stuff still present. See: http://www.slashdotdash.net/2006/08/14/create-iso-cd-dvd-image-with-mac-os-x-tiger-10-4/ Kris, will the directions on the website work in Leopard too? Jeff --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: dvd to dvd is there a simple way?
On Mar 25, 2009, at 10:11 PM, MacGuy wrote: See: http://www.slashdotdash.net/2006/08/14/create-iso-cd-dvd-image-with-mac-os-x-tiger-10-4/ Kris, will the directions on the website work in Leopard too? Jeff Yes. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Upgrade to Leopard leaves mailboxes empty
I didn't have any problems when I upgraded... I still have emails from 3 years ago when I first got my email account. You could just import the mail messages from your backup, I believe it's stored in your UsersLibraryMail (Folders with emails in them) That would be the only thing I could think of. Not sure why it did that. Cyrus Griffin Hobbittech.com Mac Specialist - Low Cost Mac Services in AZ On Mar 25, 2009, at 7:01 PM, Bequette Jeff wrote: On Mar 25, 2009, at 8:13 PM, Tom wrote: I'm working on it. Nobody here seems to have any ideas. Looks like I might have to delete my e-mail account, set it up all over again, and then try to import my old mailboxes from a backup copy of Mail from the Library. So this is the great Leopard, is it? What a mess, so far, with Mail thoroughly screwed up by the upgrade. It was working fine in Tiger. I wonder what else in Leopard is all fouled up, when I go to use it? Before moving on to other bad surprises I'll try to fix Mail. I only upgraded to Leopard because I wanted Time Machine for automatic backups, otherwise I wouldn't have done it. I regret it now. Tom Admittedly, once I got my working preferences restored - re- establishing the mail account from step one- every thing that had been in a folder was returned to its folder. Every thing that was merely sitting in my inbox was gone. It may exist somewhere on the hard drive- but haven't found it yet.. I upgraded because the last Quicktime upgrade killed off my daughters Sims game, and my Civilization, (Aspyr) and the only known fix was 10.5 jbeque...@tconl.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Multiple HDs in Sawtooth
On Mar 24, 3:08 pm, nestamicky nestami...@gmail.com wrote: Hurray...I'm going SCSI's on my Sawtooth...well, as soon as I get the help I need. I'm trying to figure out how to safely install more than a single HD in the Sawtooth. Ideas...someone here must have done it. This is a physical issue, of course I know how to hook them up...but where would I physically place 3 SCSIs and maybe an ATA as well. Is this possible? Thanks a lot! you should be aware that the sawtooth will not sleep with either adaptec u2w or u160 cards. (at least mine wouldn't and neither will my DA) also scsi drives need proper cooling. the double height carriers only work in the first bay and the scsi drives should not be stacked in one of those. certain brands are more noisy (IBM) and others are more heaty (Seagate). I love scsi drives. Sort of like macs they are percieved as more expensive. they are more pricy however much much more reliable. I have a half dozen macs in service and an ide drive fails annually, I have not had a scsi fail in 6 year, and the scsi drive in my powerbook 540c is 15 years old (and I still use it two evenings a week). If putting a drive above the dvd a round cable keeps ventilation more open. I have seen this in a dual 1.25Ghz MDD. I have put old ide drive below the dvd but I would not do that with a modern scsi drive (50 pin maybe ok, I have a zip like that in my B+W case (w/ overclocked g4 450 and fan. be careful also putting too many drives not to overload the powersupply ... yeah some newish 15k drives can put through 120MB/s... my 2 10ks range from 25-50MB depending on the age. The stock ide drives in these machines get about 20, a recent ide drive can get up to about 50 - 60 (max out about 10-20% under the rating of 66 depending on the brand). I just put them on the regular holders, right now in DA there is ide in the middle one. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: xserve question
Dude, it says right at the bottom no Xserve g4s ! On Mar 24, 8:23 pm, Bill Christensen billc_li...@greenbuilder.com wrote: At 5:11 PM -0700 3/24/09, Jonas Ulrich wrote: I just bought two Xserve G4's. They are on there way and i had some questions. I know you can get the apple drive modules and boot off one of those right? I don't have any adm's but would still like to use the internal ata 100/133. Is there a way to do that without using an adm? I don't care if there is a way to mount the hard drive. Xserve G4 DP1GHZ Xserve DP1.33GHZ -Jonas You might be in luck. Someone on LEMSwap just posted this the other day (apologies for the cross-post). Perhaps he can do what's needed for xserve G4s too: From: Donald Hall lems...@ninjaproduction.com To: lems...@googlegroups.com Subject: FS: Xserve G5 Custom SATA Power Wiring Harness (No Trays Required!) I'm offering the service of custom built hard drive power cables for use in Xserve G5s. These cables plug directly into the motherboard and take the place of the normal hot-swap backplane in the Xserve. With the backplane removed, you're free to insert any SATA hard drive without the need for an Apple Drive Tray, saving several hundred dollars. All you'll need will be SATA cables to connect your hard drives to the motherboard or to a PCI card, whichever you prefer. These power cables also allow you to install 3 or more hard drives in a Cluster Node Xserve. So far I've built two of these cables, one for my own Xserve and another for a friend. My Xserve Cluster Node has three 1.5TB 3.5 hard drives in the drive bays connected to a Highpoint Tech RocketRAID card as well as a 2.5 SATA hard drive in the PCI bay that is connected to the motherboard as a boot drive. I'm able to build a cable to power any number of drives, from one to three in the drive bays and there's room for up to two 2.5 drives in the PCI bay. Since needs will vary, I'll offer 'build to order' pricing. $30 - Single Drive Power Harness $20 - Each Additional Drive Serious Inquiries Only Please When considering the prices, keep in mind that I am building the cables completely from scratch. Each connector and contact has to be bought, every wire cut, every crimp has to be done. There are no ugly splices, no electrical tape, no soldering. If you'd like to see other work I've done, please check outhttp://atxg4.com where I sell adapters that allow the use of ATX power supplies as replacement parts in G4 towers. I cannot build cables for Xserve G4s or Intel Xserves as they rely on their backplanes for other functions. - Paypal strongly preferred. Ypsilanti, MI 48198 Ebay: the_grim_ninja (950+, 100% positive) -Donald Hall -- Bill Christensen http://greenbuilder.com/contact/ Green Building Professionals Directory: http://directory.greenbuilder.com Sustainable Building Calendar: http://www.greenbuilder.com/calendar/ Green Real Estate: http://www.greenbuilder.com/realestate/ Straw Bale Registry: http://sbregistry.greenbuilder.com/ Books/videos/software: http://bookstore.greenbuilder.com/ --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Upgrade to Leopard leaves mailboxes empty
Thanks for the attempts to help, but I've now gotten finally got Mail working, although all my incoming e-mail messages that were not archived on the server are gone (because they erase old messages from their server after a couple of weeks). Here's what I did to get Mail working again: I called my ISP's help number, got a Mac user there, and told him I'd upgraded to Leopard and it broke Mail, and he said that was getting to be an old story; they've gotten numerous calls for help for the same reason. What he did was have me set up my mail accounts all over again, from scratch, talking me through all the settings. Even after that, we sent a lot of test e-mails that failed to get through, either to him or back to me. After all else failed, he told me to just reboot the machine and see if that did any good. It did. After rebooting. Mail was able to send and receive mail. I wonder now whether I should have just rebooted the machine immediately after the upgrade, before trying to launch anything. If I had, maybe Mail might have worked. Hindsight . . . . Anyway, I have still lost several mailboxes that I tried to import into Mail from the Library Mail folder earlier, before I called the ISP for help. That was when I had two copies of each mailbox, an empty one that was there when Leopard's Mail first appeared, and a second one that did have messages in it. All the full mailboxes were in a mailbox/folder labeled Imported. In trying to get rid of the empty mailboxes and replace them with the full ones, I did something wrong and lost some of the full ones. Sadly, for me, I had no recent backups of those mailboxes. My backups, on another computer, are a few months old, but they're better than nothing I guess. I lost any recent messages in them. I also asked for help with this problem in the Apple Discussion Forum for OS Leopard Mail, and got a reply from another person who had the same trouble after the upgrade, and who had this to say about it: I had the same problem and called apple support. Here is what we did. Logged in as a guest and opened mail, new messages started coming in. Logged out of the guest account and logged in as myself. In the Library, we moved the entire Mail folder to the desktop. Opened Mail program and new messages started coming in. Then went to Import mailboxes and choose the Mail folder that I moved to desktop. After mailboxes imported, mail worked perfectly. Deleted the Mail folder on my desktop. Voila!!! Hope this solves the problem for you. You have 90 Days of phone support when you buy Leopard. Well, that fix wouldn't have worked for me, because I couldn't have logged in as a guest--your Mac has to be on a network to do that, doesn't it? At least in Pogue's OS-X book, the topic of logging in as a guest is in the networking chapter. I couldn't figure out any way to do it on my Mac, which is not on a network. Anyway, trying to look on the bright side, I guess all's well that ends without complete destruction of all your data. This was only partial destruction of my mailbox collection. Now to play around with Leopard and find out what else might be broken. This is a disappointing upgrade, to say the least. Tom --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Cover Flow
On 3/25/09 7:51 AM, Dan dantear...@gmail.com Broadcast into the ether: Cover flow does its thing by generating thumbnails on the fly, then caching them. From what I can tell, especially on older/slower Macs, it falls behind itself then gets lost in cache management overhead. Might be worth trying to clear its cache... This is a Unibody Macbook Pro 2.66GHz 4gb RAM. I doubt it's the machine. It's 2 weeks old. Kyle Hansen -- This is the way the world ends...not with a bang, but a twitter. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Cover Flow
On 3/25/09 9:14 AM, Bruce Johnson john...@pharmacy.arizona.edu Broadcast into the ether: Let it catch up to generating the thumbnails. This will happen when you flip though too fast on a slower machine. Yeah. I know. But even slowly letting it catch up with my 2 week old 2.66 unibody Macbook Pro with 4gb RAM and dual video, they all just show a generic JPEG icon. Other times it works fine. But when you have hundreds of photos to search it is a bummer. Kyle Hansen -- This is the way the world ends...not with a bang, but a twitter. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Upgrade to Leopard leaves mailboxes empty
Now to play around with Leopard and find out what else might be broken. This is a disappointing upgrade, to say the least. I'm sorry you had such a bad experience. After all this, I'm still not clear on stuff that should have been in the original posting. I don't know the model, HD, RAM of Mac you were upgrading? I'm assuming this was a standard upgrade installation, but that's probably NOT the optimal way to upgrade your OS. A better way would be to clone a backup of your old OS to another HD, then wipe the original HD and do a clean installation of the new OS, and use the Migration Assistant to transfer your user accounts and data onto the clean installation from the cloned backup. I did something wrong and lost some of the full ones mailboxes This seems so unlikely. Anything should have been moved into the trash first. Then you'd need to Empty Trash before it was deleted. Even if you did Empty Trash, if you haven't used the OS very much you can probably salvage these files with Data Rescue II, I believe there's a demo mode to look and grab a small number of files for free? I lost any recent messages in them the lost mailboxes. Shouldn't recent messages still be on your ISP's mail server? --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Cover Flow
On Mar 26, 2009, at 12:38 AM, Kyle Hansen wrote: Yeah. I know. But even slowly letting it catch up with my 2 week old 2.66 unibody Macbook Pro with 4gb RAM and dual video, they all just show a generic JPEG icon. Other times it works fine. But when you have hundreds of photos to search it is a bummer. Humm. This sounds frustrating. Perhaps using a batch thumbnail icon application could help? I've used ThumbsUp 4.4 before, it's a drag drop batch thumbnail and/or custom icon maker. If you only need the custom icons, select that in preferences and then drag drop your entire photo folder onto the ThumbsUp icon and it should create the custom icons for every photo within whatever folder you choose. See: http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/19673 Now, if anyone knows how to add custom icons for .flv movies that would really be helpful? --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
