Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?

[Mac User #330250]

--  Original message  --
Subject: Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?
Date:Freitag 22 Januar 2010N
From:Dan 
To:  g3-5-list@googlegroups.com

> At 9:08 PM +0100 1/21/2010, Mac User #330250 wrote:
> >I've just made an old G3 B&W working again (it was wasting space and
> >picking up dust for about two years or more) and it is now in my
> >office. I've installed Tiger and it is just okay working
> >with it, in other words: it is slow.
> 
> Why?  What did you do to it?  My 300-MHz Smurf handles files just as
> fast as my 1.5 GHz PB G4, and my housemate's x GHz AMD Windoze
> machine.  Safari displays pages almost as fast as they do too.  Iffa
> your Smurf is slow, then you messed something up.

Might well be. I installed Tiger using my G4. I did all the updates and 
installed everything System Update was offering (including iTunes 9.0.2).
I've then put the HDD into the G3 B&W and it booted fine and as far as I can 
see it runs all the software (I haven't tried iTunes yet and maybe I never 
will) without any errors or system hangs.

Additional software is:
  Microsoft Office:Mac 2004
  GIMP 2.6.6
  OpenOffice.org 3.1.1
  Scribus 1.3.5.1

and some additional (system) tools:
  Stuffit Expander 13.0.3
  7zX 0.7.1
  VLC 0.9.10 (the newer 1.0.3 requires Leopard...)
  Open XML File Format Converter 1.1.3 (for Office:Mac 2004)
  OnyX 1.8.5
  muCommander 0.8.4
  Carbon Copy Cloner 3.2.1
  Adobe Reader 9.2 (I yet have to update to 9.3!)
  Bean 2.4.2
  Smultron 3.1.2 (newest requires Leopard)
  0xED 1.0.7
  DOSBox 0.7.3
  Burn 2.3 (the G3 build)

the (mandatory) internet stuff:
  Mozilla Firefox 3.5.2 (as I'm writing this 3.6 is out)
  Camino 2.0.1
  Flash Player 10.0.42.34
  Shockwave Player 11.5.2.602
  Little Snitch 2.1.4 (THIS may slow things down)
  Transmission 1.54 (newest requires Leopard or even Snow Leopard)
  TeamViewer 4.1.6886 (I'm occationally helping out friends)

I'm also using some 3rd party drivers (kext, kernel extensions):
  ATIcellerator II 1.0.6b
  NTFS-3G 2004.04.04 with MacFUSE
  HPIJS 3.9.2 (updated HP printer drivers for CUPS, by the Linux Foundation)
  and the Wester Digital external HDD software for My Passport.

I've skipped Windows Media Components for Quicktime 2.3.0.14, since the 350 
MHz G3 won't be able to play WMV files anyway.


Any hint on that? What should or should I not do to make it *feel* faster?


When I say that it's slow I'm comparing it to my G4 Dual-800 which is feeling 
responsive. The G3 B&W 350 MHz lets me wait a lot, e.g. when I start typing I 
can see the letters on the screen one or two seconds later until it finished 
loading (the HDD is working a lot), thereafter it starts acting "normal" i.e. 
without delay. This is even so when it already finished loading = sitting 
there for some time waiting for me doing something with it.

This starts right after boot-up when the login screen (for the password) is 
displayed. I type the password, and the stars "*" are displayed a second 
later, sometimes it also doesn't take my "Enter" key for confirmation and 
keeps me waiting to hit enter again.


Don't get me wrong on this -- I'm very happy with my B&W. I love the idea that 
it is older than a decade and still being useful for me. I use it for writing 
texts and spreadsheets mainly, and for that it suffices for me. I have to say 
though that Word and Excel 2004 are a little bit faster than OpenOffice.org 
3.1.1 (the latest) is. OpenOffice is just too big and slow, takes a minute or 
two to even start.

Internet browsing feels a lot slower too compared to the Dual-QS. But that was 
expected. The speed is okay for what I do. Watching YouTube videos isn't a 
good idea though, as almost 23 out of 24 frames are skipped (subjective 
feeling, don't let me quote a reliable source on this!).

> >Apparently Apple has finally dropped all support for Tiger.
> 
> cite?
> 
> All my Macs, that run System 7, Mac OS 8, Mac OS 9, Panther, and
> Tiger, are still running.  They didn't suddenly gak the other day.

It's not that they would have stopped working. Why should an old system 
suddenly stop working? No. I meant that Tiger users don't get any more 
updates, especially security updates. And most newer software (take Smultron 
for example, a simple editor) doesn't support Tiger anymore. You may think 
"what's wrong using the older version?" You've got a point here. Actually, 
nothings wrong with that. It is just a fact.

The only thing I don't feel comfortable with is using older browsers or older 
versions of Java and JavaScript, but also Adobe Reader and off course Flash 
Player. I'd also add Quicktime-like software like the VLC Video Player to this 
list.

They've just fixed some serious bugs in Adobe Reader that did affect the Mac 
OS X version as well as the Windows and UNIX version. I don't recall reading, 
that possible exploints will be Windows-only.
http://www.adobe.com/support/security/bulletins/apsb10-02.html

I highly recommend using the 

Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?

[Geke]

One more angle:
I like to type stuff in silence. Now where do you find a silent
computer these days, and a notebook at that?

My 15-y old Powerbook 1400 (with G3 processor upgrade) has a 1GB
compact flash card for a hard drive, and it doesn’t have a fan. It
runs on Mac OS 8.6, just enough for simple browsing, so I can use
google mail (in simple html mode) and e.g. type this reply.

-- 
You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for 
those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs.
The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette 
guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml
To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list

Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?

[Len Gerstel]

On Jan 23, 2010, at 1:06 AM, Fabian Fang wrote:


On Jan 22, 2010, at 1:37 PM, Len Gerstel wrote:


On Jan 22, 2010, at 4:18 PM, Dan wrote:


At 12:51 PM -0800 1/21/2010, Jonas Ulrich wrote:


Yes, Apple is dropping support for PPC machines and Tiger in  
general.


I've seen information about Apple no longer providing parts for  
PowerPC-based Mac repairs, in some cases.  But as for no longer  
supporting Tiger?   Please provide specific citations.  I'm  
thinking that's just general rumour or something.


Some Apple software requires 10.5 or better, iWork for example.



This is not a good example.

iWork '09 does not "require 10.5 or better":


It works just fine on my PowerMac G4 under OS 10.4.11


OOPS, bad reading on my part. Sorry.

Len

--
You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for 
those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs.
The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette 
guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml
To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list

Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?

[Mac User #330250]

--  Original message  --
Subject: Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?
Date:Samstag 23 Januar 2010N
From:Geke 
To:  "G-Group" 

> One more angle:
> I like to type stuff in silence. Now where do you find a silent
> computer these days, and a notebook at that?
> 
> My 15-y old Powerbook 1400 (with G3 processor upgrade) has a 1GB
> compact flash card for a hard drive, and it doesn’t have a fan. It
> runs on Mac OS 8.6, just enough for simple browsing, so I can use
> google mail (in simple html mode) and e.g. type this reply.

My experience is different, since all the Macs I have make a lot of noise. The 
most silent Power Mac I own is the G5 "Late 2005" which has liquid cooling 
(even though it is the 2.0 GHz single processor (Dual Core) model -- I've read 
contrary information at everymac.com about the cooling system).

The most silent computer I have is the IBM ThinkPad R51 from 2004.

Cheers,
Andreas  aka  Mac User #330250

-- 
You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for 
those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs.
The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette 
guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml
To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list

Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?

[Mac User #330250]

--  Original message  --
Subject: Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?
Date:Freitag 22 Januar 2010N
From:Dan 
To:  g3-5-list@googlegroups.com

> >>OpenSSL
> >>CVE-ID: CVE-2009-3555
> >>Available for: Mac OS X v10.5.8, Mac OS X Server v10.5.8, Mac OS X
> >>v10.6.2, Mac OS X Server v10.6.2
> >>Impact: An attacker with a privileged network position may capture
> >>data or change the operations performed in sessions protected by SSL
> 
> While this is applicable to all implementations of SSL (it's a direct
> protocol failure), I'm not finding or hearing of any code that takes
> advantage of it on a Mac.

I don't think that this is at all architecture specific. Every secure page 
(https://...) could be affected by it, and it doesn't matter if you're sitting 
in front of a PowerPC-based Mac, an ALPHA-based DEC, or an x86 (Intel/AMD)-
based PC, as long as you direct your browser to an SSL encrypted page, and 
this very browser utilizes the operating systems capabilities to manage SSL. 
Mac OS X and almost all UNIXes use OpenSSL for this job. All are affected. On 
every architecture.

That is how I understand it. But maybe I'm wrong again.


Cheers,
Andreas  aka  Mac User #330250

-- 
You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for 
those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs.
The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette 
guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml
To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list

Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?

[Lawrence David Eden]

For me, the answer is simple:  My G4 PPC works perfectly and runs the 
software that I need at an acceptable speed.  An added advantage is 
that my G4 can still boot into OS 9 when needed and I can connect my 
old SCSI hard drives easily too.


I have several friends that insist on buying "the latest and the 
greatest" from Apple or various software vendors.  I, on the other 
hand, am happy with what I have.  My only complaint with my G4 is 
that it is a little "jerky" when I watch videos on the 
internet...voice and video are a little out of sync.


My wife has a G5 iMac, and I have an Intel based laptop that one of 
my schools issued meboth are very fast and very slickbut 
neither Mac  makes me envious.  So, in short, I will upgrade when I 
have to but probably not before.




Larry

--
You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for 
those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs.
The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette 
guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml
To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list

Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?

[Dan]

At 2:45 PM -0800 1/22/2010, John Niven wrote:

Like all good rumor there is truth in some of this.

Semiconductor line widths have become so small that the operating 
voltage has had to be reduced constantly to combat leakage and NBTI 
effects. Having a overvoltage condition is VERY hazardous to a cpu's 
life. We in the semiconductor industry [...]


Are smart enough to put diodes and such in there to protect the chips 
from such conditions.  And besides, the power managers in products 
such as Macintosh are designed so they just can't crank out so much 
power as to fry the chips etc.


My experience is that today's cpu degrade very noticeably through 
stress. I would not expect today's cpu's to have the same longevity 
as in the past. Good enough for the market? Maybe.


If by "today's cpu's" [sic] you mean Intel's products (processors, 
and other chips), then I agree.  They're simply not designed for long 
life, and then there are quality control issues...


However, I would have expected that these systems were designed to 
be fail-safe i.e. the default condition is the voltages start at a 
"safe" maximum and the fans are full on.


Exactly.

- Dan.
--
- Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth.

--
You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for 
those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs.
The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette 
guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml
To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list

Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?

[Dan]

At 11:59 AM +0100 1/23/2010, Mac User #330250 wrote:

 > Why?  What did you do to it?  My 300-MHz Smurf handles files just as

 fast as my 1.5 GHz PB G4, and my housemate's x GHz AMD Windoze
 machine.  Safari displays pages almost as fast as they do too.  Iffa
 your Smurf is slow, then you messed something up.


Might well be. I installed Tiger using my G4. I did all the updates and
installed everything System Update was offering


Do you use Dashboard?  If not, disable it (with OnyX). It's chewing 
up 40 MB real memory.


Check to see how much cpu time Spotlight's indexing is chewing (md* 
processes).  You may find your system is much more responsive if you 
disable the indexing.  (Search this LEM list for the details of using 
the mdutil commands to do it).



(including iTunes 9.0.2).


iTunes performance is pretty much a total embarrassment to Apple. 
That being said, while 9 is required to talk to much of the iTunes 
Store now, the offical version for G3 systems is 8.2.1.



GIMP 2.6.6


GIMP is nice.  I prefer GraphicConverter 5.9.5 on the Smurf.


OpenOffice.org 3.1.1


Slow on any sub-GHz system.  AppleWorks kicks its butt.


Stuffit Expander 13.0.3


Known to clobber Finder's performance, and cause so many other 
problems...  StuffIt is pretty much crapware these days.  Make it go 
away.



Carbon Copy Cloner 3.2.1


Update this.


Adobe Reader 9.2 (I yet have to update to 9.3!)


If you don't need Reader for something specific, use Preview instead. 
Reader is typical Adobe crapware - it's full of security holes etc.



Burn 2.3 (the G3 build)


Nice build of ffmpeg therein; I use it often (t'was easier than 
building my own copy).  But then I use Sizzle to create the DVD 
itself - much better control etc.


...Performance tip:  Transcoding is very cpu intensive, which can 
really slow your system's response time.  So I get the process going, 
then renice it to +10.  This essentially lowers its priority, so the 
system will kick it to the curb faster when I start using the Mac for 
other things.  When I walk away from my Mac, I'm careful to sleep the 
display or at least put the mouse in the "screen saver off" corner. 
I'd rather the cpu time was given to ffmpeg or Sizzle than the screen 
saver.

  sudo renice +10 pid


Mozilla Firefox 3.5.2 (as I'm writing this 3.6 is out)
Camino 2.0.1
Flash Player 10.0.42.34
Shockwave Player 11.5.2.602


Be sure to install a Flash blocker in your browsers.  Amazing how 
fast the web becomes when Flash is put under tight control!!!



Little Snitch 2.1.4 (THIS may slow things down)


Yea, it does.


I've skipped Windows Media Components for Quicktime 2.3.0.14, since the 350
MHz G3 won't be able to play WMV files anyway.


Flip4Mac does pretty well, actually.  I've got a lot of wmv files 
that play fine on my Smurf.  And having it installed lets you 
transcode them with ffmpeg.



When I say that it's slow I'm comparing it to my G4 Dual-800 which is feeling
responsive. The G3 B&W 350 MHz lets me wait a lot, e.g. when I start typing I
can see the letters on the screen one or two seconds later until it finished
loading (the HDD is working a lot), thereafter it starts acting "normal" i.e.
without delay. This is even so when it already finished loading = sitting
there for some time waiting for me doing something with it.


You should NOT be experiencing any typeahead delays.

It's possible that Spotlight's indexing is dragging you down.

How much memory does the system have?


Internet browsing feels a lot slower too compared to the Dual-QS. But that was
expected. The speed is okay for what I do. Watching YouTube videos isn't a
good idea though, as almost 23 out of 24 frames are skipped (subjective
feeling, don't let me quote a reliable source on this!).


Firefox is noticeably slower than Safari 4.  And both can be dragged 
to their knees by Flash.


WRT YouTube... Videos are either Flash or H.264.  Flash is a slow 
pig.  And Apple's H.264 codec is horrible.  It really needs a G4 or 
better.



 > >I read so many postings here about people buying or working with

 >Power Macs and G3/G4-Laptops. [...] But why? (Why Power Macs _and_
 >why Mac OS X?)

 PowerPC based Macs, both desktop and laptop *RUN*.  With few
 exceptions, they are VERY reliable.  You give them a task and they DO
 it.  Almost forever.


I am very certain that this is true. The PowerPC architecture was more robust
than the newer Intel design is. Intels have a lot of legacy "features" to
carry along, which doesn't make the design overall better.


Nothing to do with the processor architecture.  This is about 
manufacturing quality -- Intel parts are cheap for a reason.


- Dan.
--
- Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth.

--
You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for 
those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs.
The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette 
guide is at http://www.lowendmac.co

Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?

[John Niven]

--- On Sat, 1/23/10, Dan  wrote:

> From: Dan 
> Subject: Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?
> To: g3-5-list@googlegroups.com
> Date: Saturday, January 23, 2010, 9:30 AM
> At 2:45 PM -0800 1/22/2010, John
> Niven wrote:
> > Like all good rumor there is truth in some of this.
> > 
> > Semiconductor line widths have become so small that
> the operating voltage has had to be reduced constantly to
> combat leakage and NBTI effects. Having a overvoltage
> condition is VERY hazardous to a cpu's life. We in the
> semiconductor industry [...]
> 
> Are smart enough to put diodes and such in there to protect
> the chips from such conditions.  And besides, the power
> managers in products such as Macintosh are designed so they
> just can't crank out so much power as to fry the chips etc.

http://www.semiconductor.net/article/205454-NBTI_A_Growing_Threat_to_Device_Reliability.phphttp://www.semiconductor.net/article/205454-NBTI_A_Growing_Threat_to_Device_Reliability.php

We DO have circuits to protect against ESD, but I'm talking about much subtler 
conditions that lead to performance degredation of the transistors themselves. 
The practical upshot is the speed of the parts degrades, so since thats fixed 
by the clock, the cpu will eventually malfunction, happening first when it is 
hot.

We have to sell the parts at a lower rated speed to allow a "Useful life" 
before the speed is no longer met.


-- 
You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for 
those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs.
The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette 
guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml
To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list

Re: .cdr .dmg. .img ?

[Cliff Rediger]

On Jan 22, 10:49 am, Bruce Johnson 
wrote:

>
> Disk Utility can work with and produce all three, which you use is
> determined by your eventual output needs.
>

Thank you Bruce and all others for your clarification.
Sounds like for my needs it makes little difference
I like the sound of the Master .cdr though
Cliff

-- 
You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for 
those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs.
The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette 
guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml
To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list

Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?

[Da'Birdman]

On Jan 22, 2:46 pm, "Mac User #330250"  wrote:
> --  Original message  --
> Subject: Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?
> Date:    Freitag 22 Januar 2010N
> From:    "Da'Birdman" 
> To:      "G-Group" 
>
> > I've seen a lot of good, well thought-out replies on this: "They work
> > well for my needs," "It's what I can afford," or even, perhaps,
> > "They're fun to upgrade and play with." (Obviously, I'm paraphrasing
> > here.)  But, no one has asked the obvious question, "Why would anyone
> > join a group dedicated to Power PC G machines and ask why you are
> > still using them?"  Duh!  If you didn't have a reason, wouldn't you
> > just move on to a Mac Mini (I own two, but still love my Power PC's)
> > or an iMac and leave this group?  I'm not trying to flame on here, but
> > I just think it's odd that a G-List member would question the reasons
> > for owning and working on the very kinds of machines the list is
> > dedicated to.  I mean, I wonder why there are people still working
> > with System 6, but obviously they have their own reasons.  I wouldn't
> > join the group and then question why they are doing it.  It just seems
> > a bit odd to me.  Does it seem strange to anyone else?
>
> Would it have made sense to ask this question in another group?
> Would, for example, the Intel-Group have answers to such a question?

Perhaps so, but apparently nobody else thought that this was odd other
than me, so I'm guessing this was the right place to pose your
questions.

> To explain myself:
> 1) I am not a native speaker, so the language barrier may be an issue.

I don't think so.  Your English is better than a lot of Americans! :-)

> 2) I started using Macs of any kind about two years ago. So my knowledge of
> Macs is very new to me, but "old" (in lack of a better word I cannot cum up
> with right now) to others.
>
> 3) I recently got some older Power Macs, got infected by their design and them
> being different, e.g. NOT Windows and NOT Intel.

You're beginning to answer your own questions, then!

> 4) I come from a Linux background. Updates come regularly and Linux can be
> used on old machines as well as on new machines. But the point is, as long as
> you go with supported distros and supported open source software projects,
> you'll always recieve updates and security fixes.

But no Linux distros come from the manufacturer of the hardware.
Apple has a financial incentive to move people up to new hardware.
The Linux distros don't.

> 5) I've just finished installing Mac OS X and I'm working with it a little bit
> now. I like Mac OS X and in my oppinion starting with Mac OS X 10.3 Panther it
> is really a great and reliably operating system.

I think Tiger is the ultimate OS for Power PC G Machines, but it does
love ram.  Is your Blue & White maxed out at 1024 megs of ram?  It
makes a noticeable difference in performance, and even though it is
not intuitive, I find Tiger performs noticeably faster than Panther.

> 6) Now I'm looking at it -- with the Linux background -- and come to see that
> Panther really isn't safe anymore. And that is not the worst. If I use
> Panther, I cannot use a lot of free software that I would like to use (like
> Firefox, VLC, OpenOffice, and so on). What good is an operating system without
> applications?

That's like buying the "I'm a PC (and I'm cheap!)" But, of course,
then you have to buy a bunch of programs to run on your new, stripped
PC.  These would have been included in the more expensive Mac.
Where's the value now?  As for as the inability to run the free
software on the older G Machines, I think you just have to bite the
bullet and go with Tiger and load the computers up with lots o' ram.

> 7) A lot of people replied that they are using old software that runs quite
> happily on their Power Macs (and not at all on Intel-Macs). Well, my situation
> is different since I don't have and never had older Mac software.

But, this does explain why they are using the older G machines.  You
asked - they answered.

> 8) And last but not least -- I wanted to ask you G-users what you are using
> your Power Macs for. And if you don't experience the same difficulties
> regarding software as I do.
>
> No? Then I'm sorry. Maybe it is the language, or I'm just crazy.

If you run Tiger, I think you'll find fewer issues, at least for the
time being.  Of course, it'll just be a matter of time before a lot of
the freeware out there will require Intel and Leopard, Snow Leopard or
OS 10.7 (Garfield?).

> Either way I want to thank you all for your participation and your time. I
> really appreciate it. I've read a lot about people using Macs since decades
> and running their old but still functional software on them. I've read that
> people would like newer Macs but the money issue stand between wanting and
> getting. And I've read that I shouldn't tell people what the are gonna do or
> not do (for which I still feel responsible and I'd like to apologise).

N

Re: .cdr .dmg. .img ?

[Cliff Rediger]

On Jan 22, 10:49 am, Bruce Johnson 
wrote:

>
> Disk Utility can work with and produce all three, which you use is
> determined by your eventual output needs.
>

Thank you Bruce and all others for your clarification.
Sounds like for my needs it makes little difference
I like the sound of the Master .cdr though
Cliff

-- 
You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for 
those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs.
The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette 
guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml
To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list

Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?

[mlitwin3797]

The used Apples I bought had the classic programs taken off. I tried to 
add them again but couldn't . They only worked partially. Apple works was 
great though when it worked.

--
From: "Lawrence David Eden" 
Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 7:37 AM
To: 
Subject: Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?

For me, the answer is simple:  My G4 PPC works perfectly and runs the 
software that I need at an acceptable speed.  An added advantage is that 
my G4 can still boot into OS 9 when needed and I can connect my old SCSI 
hard drives easily too.


I have several friends that insist on buying "the latest and the greatest" 
from Apple or various software vendors.  I, on the other hand, am happy 
with what I have.  My only complaint with my G4 is that it is a little 
"jerky" when I watch videos on the internet...voice and video are a little 
out of sync.


My wife has a G5 iMac, and I have an Intel based laptop that one of my 
schools issued meboth are very fast and very slickbut neither Mac 
makes me envious.  So, in short, I will upgrade when I have to but 
probably not before.




Larry

--
You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for 
those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power 
Macs.
The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our 
netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml

To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list 


--
You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for 
those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs.
The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette 
guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml
To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list

Upgrade question for my Dual 533 G4

[Mark]

Hi everyone,

I'd like to upgrade by adding Tiger (replacing Panther) & CS 2.
(replacing photoshop 6)  I want to run an updated browser & web design
software compatible w/ tiger.  I know little about computers except
creating art in Photoshop,so would appreciate any suggestions.  I'm
considering a newer Mac if this isn't possible. Below are the
specs:

Dual 533 MHz Mac G4, 1.12 GB SRAM, L2 Cache: 1 MB (per cpu) - Bus
speed: 133 MHz. Memory: up to 1.5 GB Max;+ 128 SRAM
This computer is partitioned - 1. OS 9.2.2, 57.26 GB capacity; 35.14
GB available.
   2. OSX 10.3.9 Panther

Thank you!

Mark

-- 
You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for 
those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs.
The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette 
guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml
To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list

Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?

[Arnel Tuazon]

It's was the same when people asked, "Why don't you just throw away that
IIsi?"  The IIsi can still run MS Word 4, boots up quicker than any PPC and
Intel Mac I know of and if you can still find a use for the thing then it
ain't dead.  Surfing the web with it is tricky, but it was my main computer
up until 1999 when I bought a B&W.  I use it with my special needs students
running old edu software that is simple and way better (IMO) than what's
currently out there for the newer systems.  Also with 64MB, playing Marathon
is still a hoot.

As for the G's, as stated above and others have mentioned they are not dead
until people can't find any use for them.  With all these newer versions of
the same apps, what other bells and whistles do you need to write a letter
or a novel or make a card?  E-mail is still text based and never needed any
fancy graphics (although Jobs would like you to think otherwise).  JPEG's
and Gif's and PNGs can still be viewed by older PPC's.  I can still view
most web sites (unless they're frickin' IE specific! DAMN Winbloze IT at
work) and "surfing the internet will become more dangerous"?  For PPC
Macs?  Since when? 

Anyway if you want your B&W to run faster simply upgrade the processor (o/c
it if you want to 600 max.) and max out the RAM.  Mine runs Tiger quite
efficiently and it's used more for entertainment and storage.
 


-- 
You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for 
those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs.
The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette 
guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml
To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list

Re: Upgrade question for my Dual 533 G4

[Bruce Johnson]

On Jan 23, 2010, at 9:54 AM, Mark  wrote:


I'd like to upgrade by adding Tiger (replacing Panther) & CS 2.


Go right ahead...your system will run Tiger just fine!


--
Bruce

--
You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for 
those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs.
The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette 
guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml
To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list

Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?

[Mac User #330250]

--  Original message  --
Subject: Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?
Date:Samstag 23 Januar 2010N
From:Dan 
To:  g3-5-list@googlegroups.com

> At 11:59 AM +0100 1/23/2010, Mac User #330250 wrote:
> >  > Why?  What did you do to it?  My 300-MHz Smurf handles files just as
> >>
> >>  fast as my 1.5 GHz PB G4, and my housemate's x GHz AMD Windoze
> >>  machine.  Safari displays pages almost as fast as they do too.  Iffa
> >>  your Smurf is slow, then you messed something up.
> >
> >Might well be. I installed Tiger using my G4. I did all the updates and
> >installed everything System Update was offering
> 
> Do you use Dashboard?  If not, disable it (with OnyX). It's chewing
> up 40 MB real memory.

Yes, Dashboard is disabled. I don't use it so I have it disabled on all my 
Macs (except the G5 -- it really doesn't matter there).

> Check to see how much cpu time Spotlight's indexing is chewing (md*
> processes).  You may find your system is much more responsive if you
> disable the indexing.  (Search this LEM list for the details of using
> the mdutil commands to do it).

I'll do so as soon as I'm in the office again next week. Thanks for the hint.

> >(including iTunes 9.0.2).
> 
> iTunes performance is pretty much a total embarrassment to Apple.
> That being said, while 9 is required to talk to much of the iTunes
> Store now, the offical version for G3 systems is 8.2.1.

I knew that iTunes 9 is no longer officially for the G3s, but I didn't care at 
the time of installation as I thought I'll not be using it much anyway. I 
prefer much slimmer applications for listening to music, but the real reason 
is that in the office it is not really possible for me to have music on 
anyway.

> >GIMP 2.6.6
> 
> GIMP is nice.  I prefer GraphicConverter 5.9.5 on the Smurf.

I'll check it out. But I'm guessing that GraphicConverter isn't free... I 
won't be buying additional software. I'm using graphics software so rarely 
that it wouldn't be worth the investment.

> >OpenOffice.org 3.1.1
> 
> Slow on any sub-GHz system.  AppleWorks kicks its butt.

All my documents are OpenDocument now. Besides OpenOffice I don't know which 
other applications truely supports this. I'm willing to wait for the 
application to start just to get compatible documents. The same is true for 
Microsoft Office:Mac 2004 -- which is by the way the only software I bought 
(second hand) for the Mac.

> >Stuffit Expander 13.0.3
> 
> Known to clobber Finder's performance, and cause so many other
> problems...  StuffIt is pretty much crapware these days.  Make it go
> away.

Thanks. But how? Do I just drag it to the pin?

> >Carbon Copy Cloner 3.2.1
> 
> Update this.

I thought it was the newest version. I'll check.

> >Adobe Reader 9.2 (I yet have to update to 9.3!)
> 
> If you don't need Reader for something specific, use Preview instead.
> Reader is typical Adobe crapware - it's full of security holes etc.

I read somewhere that Preview is using xpdf code, which has security issues 
for its own too. (Meaning that some issues affect xpdf only, while others 
affect Acrobat only.)

Anyway, Preview is slimmer, true. I'm having Adobe Reader installed for 
compatibility reasons though. I sometimes have to work with PDFs, including 
PDF forms and I'm not sure wether Preview supports it all.

> >Burn 2.3 (the G3 build)
> 
> Nice build of ffmpeg therein; I use it often (t'was easier than
> building my own copy).  But then I use Sizzle to create the DVD
> itself - much better control etc.

I'll check out Sizzle. I've Burn only for this one time when I really need to 
burn an optical media (propably a CD)...

> ...Performance tip:  Transcoding is very cpu intensive, which can
> really slow your system's response time.  So I get the process going,
> then renice it to +10.  This essentially lowers its priority, so the
> system will kick it to the curb faster when I start using the Mac for
> other things.  When I walk away from my Mac, I'm careful to sleep the
> display or at least put the mouse in the "screen saver off" corner.
> I'd rather the cpu time was given to ffmpeg or Sizzle than the screen
> saver.
>sudo renice +10 pid

I'll keep that in mind, but it's not applicable to me. I always shut my B&W 
down completely.

I noticed that when putting it to sleep, part of the fans keep working (the 
power supply?) and this is a no-go situation. I don't know if the power supply 
is original or not. (You remember I got this G3 B&W as a present and it was 
not working at all at first, so I'm happy with it anyway.)

> >Mozilla Firefox 3.5.2 (as I'm writing this 3.6 is out)
> >Camino 2.0.1
> >Flash Player 10.0.42.34
> >Shockwave Player 11.5.2.602
> 
> Be sure to install a Flash blocker in your browsers.  Amazing how
> fast the web becomes when Flash is put under tight control!!!

I'm using NoScript in Firefox. But Flash is not the friction here: I also 
installed AdBlock Plus with some filters -- Firefox takes over 3 minutes

Re: Upgrade question for my Dual 533 G4

[Bill Christensen]

At 11:58 AM -0700 1/23/10, Kasey Smith wrote:

On Jan 23, 2010, at 9:54 AM, Mark wrote:


Hi everyone,

I'd like to upgrade by adding Tiger (replacing Panther) & CS 2.
(replacing photoshop 6)  I want to run an updated browser & web design
software compatible w/ tiger.  I know little about computers except
creating art in Photoshop,so would appreciate any suggestions.  I'm
considering a newer Mac if this isn't possible. Below are the
specs:

Dual 533 MHz Mac G4, 1.12 GB SRAM, L2 Cache: 1 MB (per cpu) - Bus
speed: 133 MHz. Memory: up to 1.5 GB Max;+ 128 SRAM
This computer is partitioned - 1. OS 9.2.2, 57.26 GB capacity; 35.14
GB available.
   2. OSX 10.3.9 Panther

Thank you!

Mark


You could even do a little poking around and install Leo on there 
and it would run fine. :D


(Leo takes a workaround for under 876MHz G4's, but dual 533MHz might 
even be faster then an 876MHz...)


Tiger will likely run faster for you than Panther on that machine.

I have a near identical DA.

Leopard should work as well, but it may be a little slower than Tiger.



--
Bill Christensen


Green Building Professionals Directory: 
Sustainable Building Calendar: 
Green Real Estate: 
Straw Bale Registry: 
Books/videos/software: 

--
You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for 
those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs.
The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette 
guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml
To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list

Re: Thinking about a new CPU for a Sawtooth 500 MHz G4

[Dana Collins]

(Quote)


On 1/23/10 4:03 PM, Mac User #330250 of macuser330...@gmx.net sent


> Full ACK. Consider the QS option for you (buying a used one for around 100
> Dollars with no HDDs and no RAM makes your upgrade easy -- you'd just go for
> the CPU speed).
> 
> Please correct me if I'm wrong, but the QS can take the PC100 DIMMs also,
> right?
> 
> 
> Cheers,
> Andreas  aka  Mac User #330250

(end Quote)

Hi Andreas,
No, the QS (and the DA before it) need PC 133 RAM - 512Mb sticks x3 for a
max RAM capacity of 1.5 Gig (it is the only downgrade of the QS/DA to the
Sawtooth - the Sawtooth has 4 Ram slots so you could actually max at 2 Gig
RAM in it).
Best regards,
Dana


-- 
You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for 
those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs.
The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette 
guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml
To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list

Re: Thinking about a new CPU for a Sawtooth 500 mhz G4

[A.McCullough]

On 1/23/2010 4:03 PM, Mac User #330250 wrote:

If you want to reuse parts like memory, you're much better off with the Dual-1
GHz Quicksilver, or even a Dual-800 (like mine!). Beware that the Quicksilver
2002 is the first to support large hard drives>  128 GB (system board Rev. B).
   


Full ACK. Consider the QS option for you (buying a used one for around 100
Dollars with no HDDs and no RAM makes your upgrade easy -- you'd just go for
the CPU speed).

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but the QS can take the PC100 DIMMs also,
right?
   


Okay, this brings up another question... let's say I did that: would the 
HD from my current Sawtooth (with all the apps that came with it, many 
of which do not have any physical media for reinstalling) work as-is in 
a faster QS? In a Windows world,  this doesn't normally work - a pulled 
hard drive from an older machine would (usually!) require a wiped drive 
and a full reinstall of the OS and any applications because the OS 
generally doesn't natively recognize a major hardware change without 
tossing its cookies, and once you've got this fresh OS now all the apps 
need put back in.  I'd hate to lose half the stuff in this pleasantly 
reliable old Sawtooth in the changeover (I know the DRIVE would function 
- it's the software I'm concerned with). Does this work differently in Macs?


Anna

--
You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for 
those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs.
The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette 
guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml
To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list

How can I import a Powerpoint/Keynote file into iDVD & Make a slide show?

[Michael B. in Cincinnati]

Is there a way to do this while keeping the text comments added to the
slides without simply starting over with an entire new set of
pictures? I can't find a way in iPhoto to add text to the pictures,
and feel forced back to Windows...~(8^{)=

Any and all suggestions are welcome.
- Michael B. in Cincinnati

-- 
You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for 
those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs.
The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette 
guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml
To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list

Re: Thinking about a new CPU for a Sawtooth 500 mhz G4

[JOHN CARMONNE]

On Jan 23, 2010, at 4:47 PM, A.McCullough wrote:


On 1/23/2010 4:03 PM, Mac User #330250 wrote:
If you want to reuse parts like memory, you're much better off  
with the Dual-1
GHz Quicksilver, or even a Dual-800 (like mine!). Beware that the  
Quicksilver
2002 is the first to support large hard drives>  128 GB (system  
board Rev. B).


Full ACK. Consider the QS option for you (buying a used one for  
around 100
Dollars with no HDDs and no RAM makes your upgrade easy -- you'd  
just go for

the CPU speed).

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but the QS can take the PC100  
DIMMs also,

right?



Okay, this brings up another question... let's say I did that:  
would the HD from my current Sawtooth (with all the apps that came  
with it, many of which do not have any physical media for  
reinstalling) work as-is in a faster QS? In a Windows world,  this  
doesn't normally work - a pulled hard drive from an older machine  
would (usually!) require a wiped drive and a full reinstall of the  
OS and any applications because the OS generally doesn't natively  
recognize a major hardware change without tossing its cookies, and  
once you've got this fresh OS now all the apps need put back in.   
I'd hate to lose half the stuff in this pleasantly reliable old  
Sawtooth in the changeover (I know the DRIVE would function - it's  
the software I'm concerned with). Does this work differently in Macs?


Anna
Just install the hard drive and boot it up most items will be  
noticeably faster. There is no stumbling because of the upgraded CPU  
that I've ever seen.


John Carmonnewtmm
Yorba Linda USA

--
You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for 
those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs.
The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette 
guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml
To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list

Re: Thinking about a new CPU for a Sawtooth 500 mhz G4

[Kris Tilford]

On Jan 23, 2010, at 6:47 PM, A.McCullough wrote:

Okay, this brings up another question... let's say I did that: would  
the HD from my current Sawtooth (with all the apps that came with  
it, many of which do not have any physical media for reinstalling)  
work as-is in a faster QS? In a Windows world,  this doesn't  
normally work - a pulled hard drive from an older machine would  
(usually!) require a wiped drive and a full reinstall of the OS and  
any applications because the OS generally doesn't natively recognize  
a major hardware change without tossing its cookies, and once you've  
got this fresh OS now all the apps need put back in.  I'd hate to  
lose half the stuff in this pleasantly reliable old Sawtooth in the  
changeover (I know the DRIVE would function - it's the software I'm  
concerned with). Does this work differently in Macs?


Yes, this does work differently in a Mac. Windows installs a custom  
system for each computer, and generally it can't be moved from one  
computer to another unless the two computers are physically identical.  
Macs install a unitary system that normally is bootable on all Macs.  
There are some exceptions, but these normally only involve specific  
hardware extensions, and your Sawtooth is NOT a model that would have  
a restricted set of extensions. You should be able to move your  
Sawtooth HD into a QS or any other Mac that can take it without issues.


You can easily clone (a special type of copy) an old HD onto a new HD.  
Or, if you have installer discs you can install a clean system on a  
new HD and then use the application "Migration Assistant" to migrate  
over all the extra programs from the old HD.


If your Mac only has one HD, you could probably add a 2nd without  
removing the original.


There are many options on a Mac, many more than on a Windows PC. The  
two are very different, with the Mac being more user friendly. If you  
don't have any install discs, cloning your old HD onto a new one would  
be your best option, and you'd do this with a program such as Carbon  
Copy Cloner or SuperDuper!.


If you don't have installer discs, I'd strongly recommend keeping two  
bootable HDs so that if you need to run a disk repair program you can  
boot the alternate HD and repair the other one using Disk Utility.


--
You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for 
those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs.
The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette 
guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml
To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list

Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?

[captarne]

Well I use them mostly as a hobby, I just was given a pre imac all in
one G3 266 and it works great! I can put all my old OS 9 games on it
Arne

-- 
You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for 
those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs.
The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette 
guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml
To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list

Re: Thinking about a new CPU for a Sawtooth 500 mhz G4

[A.McCullough]

On 1/23/2010 8:03 PM, Kris Tilford wrote:
Yes, this does work differently in a Mac. Windows installs a custom 
system for each computer, and generally it can't be moved from one 
computer to another unless the two computers are physically identical. 
Macs install a unitary system that normally is bootable on all Macs. 
There are some exceptions, but these normally only involve specific 
hardware extensions, and your Sawtooth is NOT a model that would have 
a restricted set of extensions. You should be able to move your 
Sawtooth HD into a QS or any other Mac that can take it without issues.


You can easily clone (a special type of copy) an old HD onto a new HD. 
Or, if you have installer discs you can install a clean system on a 
new HD and then use the application "Migration Assistant" to migrate 
over all the extra programs from the old HD.


If your Mac only has one HD, you could probably add a 2nd without 
removing the original.


There are many options on a Mac, many more than on a Windows PC. The 
two are very different, with the Mac being more user friendly. If you 
don't have any install discs, cloning your old HD onto a new one would 
be your best option, and you'd do this with a program such as Carbon 
Copy Cloner or SuperDuper!.
This is excellent news, thank you! I am familiar with SuperDuper 
already, having cloned the Sawtooth's original 20-gig drive onto the 40 
gig that resides in it at the moment (I did keep the original 20 gig as 
a backup) - I found it to be a most painless process :)  I DO have the 
OS Tiger install discs ( bought those a while ago), and in fact, I 
chipped in on the purchase of a set of Leopard discs - a friend and I 
bought a five-license set when Leopard first came out) so that if I 
could update the Sawtooth enough to run it, I already have a legal way 
to go that route as well. However, as is being made clear to me, perhaps 
just replacing the Sawtooth itself might be better than upgrading its 
processor.


You've just brought up an option with which I am not familiar - 
"Migration Assistant"?? Hm, something else to look into :)


I am still curious, though (always!!) - what upgrade paths DO exist for 
the Sawtooth by way of processor speed (apart from the monetary 
considerations, I'm still interested in learning about it)?


Thanks very much for your very helpful response!!

Anna McCullough

--
You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for 
those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs.
The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette 
guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml
To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list

Lost hd space - where did it go?

[Jonas Lopez]

Lost hd space - where did it go?
Cleaning up no longer needed stuff, emptied 8 Gb partition - all gone - yet 
info shows 2.6 Gb, trash has been emptied. At a loss for where and what is 
still using 2.6 Gb? 

Any ideas will be helpful.


G4 450 MHz box with OS 8.1-9.2, X 10.2.8. AGP Graphics on a card. Both are 
connected by 4 port LinkSys BEFSR41. 20 Gb hd in 8Gb and 12Gb partitions, 470 
Mb, Zip, fd, DVD/cd Drive, all are Apple branded.
===


  

-- 
You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for 
those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs.
The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette 
guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml
To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list

Re: Lost hd space - where did it go?

[Jeffrey Engle]

Jonas, try erasing the "free space" there's a button for that in the  
"erase" tab of disk utility. Jeff

Jeffrey Engle
Kamiah, Idaho 83536
macgu...@gmail.com



On Jan 23, 2010, at 4:36 PM, Jonas Lopez wrote:


Lost hd space - where did it go?
Cleaning up no longer needed stuff, emptied 8 Gb partition - all  
gone - yet info shows 2.6 Gb, trash has been emptied. At a loss for  
where and what is still using 2.6 Gb?


Any ideas will be helpful.


G4 450 MHz box with OS 8.1-9.2, X 10.2.8. AGP Graphics on a card.  
Both are connected by 4 port LinkSys BEFSR41. 20 Gb hd in 8Gb and  
12Gb partitions, 470 Mb, Zip, fd, DVD/cd Drive, all are Apple branded.
== 
=





--
You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a  
group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a  
particular focus on Power Macs.
The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our  
netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml

To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/ 
group/g3-5-list


--
You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for 
those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs.
The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette 
guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml
To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list

Re: Lost hd space - where did it go?

[Kris Tilford]

On Jan 23, 2010, at 7:32 PM, Jeffrey Engle wrote:

Jonas, try erasing the "free space" there's a button for that in the  
"erase" tab of disk utility.


I think the term "free space" in the Disk Utility/partition world  
means unused space that isn't formatted or partitioned. Once a HD has  
been partitioned "free space" changes meaning, it means the part of  
the partition that isn't in use. In this case, I think you meant that  
he should "erase" the "partition", which would release any hidden  
files that are eating up the 2.6 GB he's missing.


If you can't erase the entire partition, the program "Disk Inventory  
X" gives a graphical representation of the contents of a HD or  
partition with the area of each file proportional to its size so that  
you can quickly glance at it and see which files are eating up all the  
space.


--
You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for 
those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs.
The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette 
guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml
To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list

Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?

[Stephen Conrad]

On Sat, Jan 23, 2010 at 7:23 PM, captarne wrote:

> Well I use them mostly as a hobby, I just was given a pre imac all in
> one G3 266 and it works great! I can put all my old OS 9 games on it
> Arne
>
>
I mainly use my 8600/200 as storage but every once in a blue moon I play a
game on it.
My Smurf sees the same usage (I really gotta get my iTunes stuff off of it)
My only other PMs (5400/180 and 5260/100) both have issues I have yet to
fix. Neither seems to want to show me anything (on one the message says it
cannot find a boot volume and the other has some problem I cannot recall).
If I get them working they'll be for games most likely


-- 
Steve Conrad
Henrietta, MO 64036

"The time has come for mankind to grow up and leave its cradle behind; to go
forth and claim our place in outer space."
  - Capt. Henry Gloval


(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")
Help Bunny Take Over The World!

-- 
You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for 
those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs.
The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette 
guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml
To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list

Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?Winblowz connection

[Wallace Adrian D'Alessio]

Every Winter we see one or more topics like this make 100 or more posts.

Luckily this one is on topic and there is no Nanny whiplash or shutdown
needed.

Best of all everyone is in a comfort zone.


Way ta go Listers !

-- 
You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for 
those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs.
The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette 
guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml
To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list

g5 question

[roger d]

what powermacs where liquid cooled? where all late 05 powermac g5s  
liquid cooled?


thanks
 roger

--
You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for 
those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs.
The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette 
guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml
To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list

Re: g5 question

[Bill Connelly]

On Jan 23, 2010, at 11:47 PM, roger d wrote:

what powermacs where liquid cooled? where all late 05 powermac g5s  
liquid cooled?


thanks
roger

--


You might find info here:
http://www.mactracker.ca/

Free download.

--
You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for 
those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs.
The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette 
guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml
To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list

Re: g5 question

[John Carmonne]

On Jan 23, 2010, at 8:47 PM, roger d wrote:

> what powermacs where liquid cooled? where all late 05 powermac g5s liquid 
> cooled?
> 
> thanks
> roger
> 

I'm a proud owner of a PM G5 2.7 Dual Liquid cooled machine my box has a 
Panasonic radiator with two pumps it is a real piece of engineering 
accomplishment. I
Yorba Linda USA



-- 
You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for 
those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs.
The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette 
guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml
To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list

Re: Thinking about a new CPU for a Sawtooth 500 MHz G4

[Mac User #330250]

--  Original message  --
Subject: Re: Thinking about a new CPU for a Sawtooth 500 MHz G4
Date:Sonntag 24 Januar 2010N
From:Dana Collins 
To:  g3-5-list@googlegroups.com

> On 1/23/10 4:03 PM, Mac User #330250 of macuser330...@gmx.net sent
> 
> > Please correct me if I'm wrong, but the QS can take the PC100 DIMMs also,
> > right?
> >
> 
> Hi Andreas,
> No, the QS (and the DA before it) need PC 133 RAM - 512Mb sticks x3 for a
> max RAM capacity of 1.5 Gig (it is the only downgrade of the QS/DA to the
> Sawtooth - the Sawtooth has 4 Ram slots so you could actually max at 2 Gig
> RAM in it).

I knew that. But doesn't the QS *take* PC100 RAM as well? While this will 
include a slight speed decreese it will make the purchase of RAM-DIMMs 
optional. Right?

I've used PC100 DIMMs _and_ PC133 DIMMs in my Quicksilver 2001 733 MHz without 
a problem. System Profiler shows which type of DIMM you're using.

Saying that I have to include that the very same Quicksilver didn't take an 
identical DIMM -- it just ignored it and showed the memory bank as being empty 
-- while the other DIMM was recognized normally. That was PC133 RAM by the way 
and the DIMMs has serial numbers in sequenze. It was and is a mystory to me.

Cheers,
Andreas  aka  Mac User #330250

-- 
You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for 
those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs.
The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette 
guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml
To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list

Re: g5 question

[Mac User #330250]

--  Original message  --
Subject: g5 question
Date:Sonntag 24 Januar 2010N
From:roger d 
To:  g3-5-list@googlegroups.com

> what powermacs where liquid cooled? where all late 05 powermac g5s
> liquid cooled?

You may also look at everymac.com:

I have a "Late 2005" 2.0 GHz Dual-Core model Power Mac G5 that is liquid 
cooled. At least it seems so to me. (There is the sticker inside it that warns 
about visible fluid leaks... Also it is very silent conpared to my G4s.)

According to everymac.com this very model should be having fans only:
http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/powermac_g5/stats/powermac_g5_dual_2.0.html
 ...it is divided into four different thermal zones with nine computer-
controlled fans for optimum cooling. 
(end of 4th paragraph)

About the "Early 2005" 2.7 GHz Dual G5:
http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/powermac_g5/stats/powermac_g5_2.7_dp.html
  ...this model adds a liquid cooling system that replaces the 
traditional heat sink. 

And the "Late 2005" Quad (Dual-2.5 GHz Dual Core):
http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/powermac_g5/stats/powermac_g5_quad_2.5.html
 ...this model adds a liquid cooling system that replaces the 
traditional heat sink. 


Cheers,
Andreas  aka  Mac User #330250

-- 
You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for 
those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs.
The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette 
guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml
To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list

Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?

[Mac User #330250]

--  Original message  --
Subject: Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?
Date:Samstag 23 Januar 2010N
From:kimtoufectis 
To:  "G-Group" 

> This questions has plainly drawn a great deal of interest and
> discussion...I commented once already, but looking over more recent
> posts here's another reason:  the G4 "lamp base" iMac is one of the
> really elegant designs for a desktop computer, astonishing when
> introduced and still remarkable in its elegance.  I liken it to the
> Philco tube television of another generation...

How true... Some of these older Macs are just beautifully designed. I've been 
thinking about getting a Cube myself lately, but they are too expensive to me 
for what they deliver in performance. And then I think about it -- that I 
don't really need it -- so I don't buy one.

I've still got the G3 B&W which I like a lot so my needs are fulfilled.

Cheers,
Andreas  aka  Mac User #330250

-- 
You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for 
those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs.
The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette 
guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml
To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list

Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?

[Mac User #330250]

--  Original message  --
Subject: Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?
Date:Sonntag 24 Januar 2010N
From:Stephen Conrad 
To:  g3-5-list@googlegroups.com

> On Sat, Jan 23, 2010 at 7:23 PM, captarne wrote:
> > Well I use them mostly as a hobby, I just was given a pre imac all in
> > one G3 266 and it works great! I can put all my old OS 9 games on it
> > Arne
> 
> I mainly use my 8600/200 as storage but every once in a blue moon I play a
> game on it.
> My Smurf sees the same usage (I really gotta get my iTunes stuff off of it)
> My only other PMs (5400/180 and 5260/100) both have issues I have yet to
> fix. Neither seems to want to show me anything (on one the message says it
> cannot find a boot volume and the other has some problem I cannot recall).
> If I get them working they'll be for games most likely

What games are you playing?

Due to my background I don't have even one single Mac game. I have a dozen DOS 
games though, and I was wondering if I could play one of those on my "new" G4 
B&W with 350 MHz.
So I installed DOSBox and launched my favorite game Ultima Underworld, but it 
is unplayable on the G3 B&W due to its performace. Works well on the 
Quicksilver and on the G5.

So I'm wondering: I _really don't_ wont to inverst any more money on this. I 
already did too much for what I do with my older Macs.

Are there any free Mac games out there that will play nicely on my G3 B&W? I'm 
running Mac OS X 10.4.11 Tiger if that matters.

Cheers,
Andreas  aka  Mac User #330250

-- 
You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for 
those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs.
The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette 
guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml
To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list