Re: Cache Failure?

[Kasey Smith]

So, did you try at all to figure out why the DA logic board won't  
turn on?

On Jan 24, 2010, at 11:35 PM, Jonas Ulrich wrote:

SOLVED: The computer refused to turn on at all. It occurred to me  
then, that the people who gave it to me never mentioned if it  
worked or not. So, I swapped in a Quicksilver Motherboard and Power  
supply and the overclocked 800MHZ processor. I had to build the  
forth mounting post for the processor out of nuts and bolts because  
the DA case had not place for it. Everything works perfectly, and  
OS 9 doesn't mention anything about cache failure! Thanks for the  
help!


-Jonas

On Fri, Jan 22, 2010 at 10:04 PM, Kris Tilford   
wrote:

On Jan 22, 2010, at 11:01 AM, Jonas Ulrich wrote:

So someone gave me a single 533 digital audio g4 yesterday. I  
successfully put a 733 quicksilver processor in it, and then  
decided to overclock it to 800MHZ. I "successfully" did this,  
except that when OS 9 starts up it says that the built-in memory  
test detected a problem with the cache memory and to contact apple  
support. I zapped the PRAM, reinstalled OS 9. Nothing worked, I can  
still use the computer though and it recognizes it as an 800MHZ G4  
with 256kb level 2 cache. Thanks in advance!


This is a little out of my area of expertise, I've never had much  
experience with G4 PowerMacs, but I thought that both the 533 DA &  
733 QS were considered "road apples" because of their miniscule L2  
cache? The "normal" size of a 733 QS L2 cache IS 256 KB, so if  
that's what you're seeing, it IS correct. It would seem advisable  
to get a different CPU with a larger L2, irrespective of whether  
this L2 is functional or not.


Also, I've seen that message in OS 9 before on Macs that would also  
boot OS X, for example, I've got an old PowerBook 3400 with both OS  
9 and OS 10.3.9 installed. In OS 9 I see the message, but in OS X,  
System Profiler shows the L2 cache and says it's functional. I  
decided that the warning in OS 9 was likely wrong, but I'm not 100%  
sure. There is an old utility from NewerTech called "Gage Pro 1.1"  
which if I remember right will show your L2 functionality in OS 9.



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Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?

[Michael G.M.]

Ah, the iMac. I remember the time I was disassembling one, and upon
struggling to pull the belly plate off (It must have been jammed) It
popped off and I punched myself in the nose! I was in pain for a month
or more.

I've been wondering what will be the next 'Pro' case too. It is
getting quite old/stale.

As for games, I wouldn't invest anything in Mac games, unless you can
get them for next to nothing, play web games, Free ones, or ebay
cheepies. The PS2 is a way better investment, as it plays new games
and all the older ones. Although I invested in Mac games, in
retrospect, I should have gotten a PS2. I have a GC though! MYST was
interesting, but it finally put me to sleep. I like the TRs. Angel of
Darkness was the best Mac OS X PPC game, imo. I hardly have the time
to drain my brain on games much anymore though.

Anyway, I still use Mac OS 9, 10.3, 10.5, and 10.4, and I'm in the
process of getting ready to install YDL 6.2 on a G4 400 AGP! I think I
still like 10.3 the best and it's support was way too short for such a
capable OS X. G4's are totally fun and pretty easy to upgrade. I still
wanted a G5 only untill recently. I'm probably going to make the leap
after 10.5 support is done (To what I don't know yet, for sure) likely
a mini, or I'm thinking in a couple years there may (finally) be some
actual options and something with some actual expandability, besides
one  FW 800 port and monitor/LCD TV options on the mini. I think Apple
needs to move on to other models besides the more than a decade old
iMac and limited mini. Blu-Ray player would be nice too!

-Mike


On Jan 24, 10:55 am, Dan  wrote:
> I thought it was funny to see how the other companies jumped on
> copying the iMac.
>
> Not crazy about the iMac G4 design (too many with limp necks).  But I
> really like the rest of the iMac designs over the years.  Very cool.
> sigh.  Now if only they were easier to repair.  Good industrial
> design should, IMO, include easy-open / access features.  Yea, I know
> - Jobs is anti-user upgrade.  But geeze - 90% of the bench time
> should NOT be taken up by just opening and closing a machine!
>
> The Power Mac G5 / Mac Pro box... love it.  But it's a bit stale now,
> so I've been wondering where Apple will go with it.
>
> - Dan.
> --
> - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth.

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Re: Cache Failure?

[Jonas Ulrich]

SOLVED: The computer refused to turn on at all. It occurred to me then, that
the people who gave it to me never mentioned if it worked or not. So, I
swapped in a Quicksilver Motherboard and Power supply and the overclocked
800MHZ processor. I had to build the forth mounting post for the processor
out of nuts and bolts because the DA case had not place for it. Everything
works perfectly, and OS 9 doesn't mention anything about cache failure!
Thanks for the help!

-Jonas

On Fri, Jan 22, 2010 at 10:04 PM, Kris Tilford  wrote:

> On Jan 22, 2010, at 11:01 AM, Jonas Ulrich wrote:
>
>  So someone gave me a single 533 digital audio g4 yesterday. I successfully
>> put a 733 quicksilver processor in it, and then decided to overclock it to
>> 800MHZ. I "successfully" did this, except that when OS 9 starts up it says
>> that the built-in memory test detected a problem with the cache memory and
>> to contact apple support. I zapped the PRAM, reinstalled OS 9. Nothing
>> worked, I can still use the computer though and it recognizes it as an
>> 800MHZ G4 with 256kb level 2 cache. Thanks in advance!
>>
>
> This is a little out of my area of expertise, I've never had much
> experience with G4 PowerMacs, but I thought that both the 533 DA & 733 QS
> were considered "road apples" because of their miniscule L2 cache? The
> "normal" size of a 733 QS L2 cache IS 256 KB, so if that's what you're
> seeing, it IS correct. It would seem advisable to get a different CPU with a
> larger L2, irrespective of whether this L2 is functional or not.
>
> Also, I've seen that message in OS 9 before on Macs that would also boot OS
> X, for example, I've got an old PowerBook 3400 with both OS 9 and OS 10.3.9
> installed. In OS 9 I see the message, but in OS X, System Profiler shows the
> L2 cache and says it's functional. I decided that the warning in OS 9 was
> likely wrong, but I'm not 100% sure. There is an old utility from NewerTech
> called "Gage Pro 1.1" which if I remember right will show your L2
> functionality in OS 9.
>
>
> --
> You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for
> those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power
> Macs.
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> netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml
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Re: Thinking about a new CPU for a Sawtooth 500 MHz G4

[Kris Tilford]

On Jan 24, 2010, at 11:21 PM, Dana Collins wrote:

If you have used PC-100 in a unit designed for faster RAM, I would  
say that

is an anomaly, or you have the darned luckiest Mac on the planet!


I've noticed that sometimes RAM sold as slower RAM is actually a  
faster variety. You need to inspect the individual chips on each  
module to determine how fast they are. When faster RAM is sold as  
slower, it will normally be labeled as the slower RAM, and will  
sometimes identify to the system as slower RAM, but an inspection of  
the individual chips in the sure way to know the speed. I believe this  
occurs because it's simply cheaper to produce newer faster chips on  
smaller dies than the older slower chips. Also, larger modules can be  
made with less total chips. Thus, new RAM labeled as PC66 or PC100  
might in fact be PC133 modules simply labeled as PC66 or PC100.


The same holds true with video cards, sometimes video cards have  
faster VRAM chips than the card's firmware specifies, and these cards  
are normally able to be safely overclocked to whatever speed the  
individual VRAM chips support. When older slower chips run out of  
stock they simply continue production using newer faster chips.


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Re: G4 dual 500 Panther to Leopard upgrade

[Kris Tilford]

On Jan 24, 2010, at 10:52 PM, Chance Reecher wrote:


Yes, you can use the MacBook's installer just fine. It's only locked
as to the Mac it will install from, not the drive it will install to.
Start the G4 up in Target Disk Mode, boot the MacBook from the
installer, and choose the G4's HD to install to. I've done it before,
it works fine. No need for XPostFacto or Open Firmware modifications.


Agreed. This is the correct method to install Leopard using the  
Macbook to the G4.


Also, "XPostFacto" is NOT for installing Leopard, you probably meant  
"Leopard Assist".


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Re: Thinking about a new CPU for a Sawtooth 500 MHz G4

[Dana Collins]

On 1/24/10 1:45 AM, Mac User #330250 of macuser330...@gmx.net sent

> --  Original message  --
> Subject: Re: Thinking about a new CPU for a Sawtooth 500 MHz G4
> Date:Sonntag 24 Januar 2010N
> From:Dana Collins 
> To:  g3-5-list@googlegroups.com
> 
>> On 1/23/10 4:03 PM, Mac User #330250 of macuser330...@gmx.net sent
>> 
>>> Please correct me if I'm wrong, but the QS can take the PC100 DIMMs also,
>>> right?
>>> 
>> 
>> Hi Andreas,
>> No, the QS (and the DA before it) need PC 133 RAM - 512Mb sticks x3 for a
>> max RAM capacity of 1.5 Gig (it is the only downgrade of the QS/DA to the
>> Sawtooth - the Sawtooth has 4 Ram slots so you could actually max at 2 Gig
>> RAM in it).
> 
> I knew that. But doesn't the QS *take* PC100 RAM as well? While this will
> include a slight speed decreese it will make the purchase of RAM-DIMMs
> optional. Right?
> 
> I've used PC100 DIMMs _and_ PC133 DIMMs in my Quicksilver 2001 733 MHz without
> a problem. System Profiler shows which type of DIMM you're using.
> 
> Saying that I have to include that the very same Quicksilver didn't take an
> identical DIMM -- it just ignored it and showed the memory bank as being empty
> -- while the other DIMM was recognized normally. That was PC133 RAM by the way
> and the DIMMs has serial numbers in sequenze. It was and is a mystory to me.
> 
> Cheers,
> Andreas  aka  Mac User #330250

HI Andreas,

If you have used PC-100 in a unit designed for faster RAM, I would say that
is an anomaly, or you have the darned luckiest Mac on the planet! :-). It is
my understanding, supported by both advice and experience, that units
needing PC-100 are forward compatible (i.e. You can use PC-133 in a Sawtooth
requiring PC-100), but not the opposite. I remember having a beige G3 and I
had a mix of PC-66 (the native requirement), PC-100 and PC-133 in it, but I
could not use any of the PC-66 in my B+W G3. My Sawtooth G4 was loaded with
PC-133 when I got it, which I was able to migrate to my DA, and eventually a
QS; I accidently put a PC-100 in my DA, and it beeped and chirped angrily at
me (so sorry!). I suppose a DA or QS could use PC-166, if it existed, but by
then the 2100 and beyond was upon us (different socket altogether).
Best regards,
Dana


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Re: G4 dual 500 Panther to Leopard upgrade

[Chance Reecher]

Yes, you can use the MacBook's installer just fine. It's only locked
as to the Mac it will install from, not the drive it will install to.
Start the G4 up in Target Disk Mode, boot the MacBook from the
installer, and choose the G4's HD to install to. I've done it before,
it works fine. No need for XPostFacto or Open Firmware modifications.

On Sun, Jan 24, 2010 at 11:39 PM, Kasey Smith  wrote:
>

> You cant use the MacBook's installer, it is model locked. Also, you will
> need to do some trickery to get Leo to install, but i think you can use
> XPostFacto4 to make it work. Also, look on ebay for Leo DVDs. I would get a
> full install DVD, but thats just me.
>
>

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Re: G4 dual 500 Panther to Leopard upgrade

[Kasey Smith]

On Jan 24, 2010, at 9:32 PM, Peterafterthought wrote:


I'm reading alot here and elsewhere about upgrading my G4 dual 500
from Panther to Leopard and looking for more info. From what I read
it's doable. A couple of stupid questions. I have a Macbook Pro with
Leopard. Can I use that installation dvd to install Leopard on my G4 ?
My Panther on the G4 was an upgrade, can I get an legitimate upgrade
to Leopard somewhere ?  Any advice/suggestions will be appreciated.


You cant use the MacBook's installer, it is model locked. Also, you  
will need to do some trickery to get Leo to install, but i think you  
can use XPostFacto4 to make it work. Also, look on ebay for Leo DVDs.  
I would get a full install DVD, but thats just me.


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Re: USB/FW/other Panel Replacement

[Fabian Fang]

On Jan 24, 2010, at 8:17 PM, Bill Connelly wrote:


On Jan 24, 2010, at 10:52 PM, Chance Reecher wrote:


Halfway down the page:

http://stn2.headgap.com/resale/FMPro?-token=13531991&-db=ProductsC.fp3&-lay=WEB&-format=items.htm&-sortfield=SortID&-Max=40&category=acces&-find



Thats what I remember. Don't seem to be many around (out of stock),  
and I ran across this "not working under 10.5" article:

http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/feedback/sweet_multiport_reviews.html

They look really nice: USB2, FW, other, Front Panel including the   
PCI card for connectivity. Kits for QS and one for MDD.


Still searching ... any experience using one? or similar?



I replaced the ZIP drive in a PowerMac G4 with a GeeThree Sweet  
Multiport years ago.  It has worked flawlessly (up to OS 10.4.11).


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G4 dual 500 Panther to Leopard upgrade

[Peterafterthought]

I'm reading alot here and elsewhere about upgrading my G4 dual 500
from Panther to Leopard and looking for more info. From what I read
it's doable. A couple of stupid questions. I have a Macbook Pro with
Leopard. Can I use that installation dvd to install Leopard on my G4 ?
My Panther on the G4 was an upgrade, can I get an legitimate upgrade
to Leopard somewhere ?  Any advice/suggestions will be appreciated.

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Re: MDD "bad RAM" 3 beeps: I'm feeling even dumber than usual

[Bill Christensen]

At 1:19 PM -0800 1/24/10, tonycd wrote:

I loaded all the 512s from the two 867 machines into one of them,
chosen pretty much at random, since I needed one machine more urgently
than two. Eventually, after some stumbling around, this turned out to
be a sweet-running (if somewhat noisy) Mac that's now being enjoyed by
my son.


Ok, let me get this straight:

Of the three machines, the 1.25 was working other than the DVD drive, 
plus you got one 867 working for your son.  The third one is 
comatose?  Or is the 1.25 also not booting? Or you somehow managed to 
fubar both 867s?


In short, what works?


The other two, though, are another matter. Eventually, I punted and
started swapping around both RAM cards and CPUs. I had two old and
small RAM cards, four newer 2700-speed 512 RAM cards, one older/slower
CPU card, and one newer/faster CPU card.

In the course of ineptly testing the slower machine, I ran it for
about 30 seconds without the heat sink on the 867 card. Bye-bye 867
card. (Yes, I know. Dumb.)

Now I have the faster CPU, both chassis, both machines' hard drives
with Tiger on them after the previous owner wiped them and reinstalled
the OS, a CD drive, a DVD drive of unknown condition, and the
aforementioned proven-good RAM cards.

Current state: Both machines, when fitted with the remaining CPU and
either hard drive, give the interrupted chime and 3 beeps that is
supposed to mean all the RAM is bad. I did the "pencil eraser and
shove 'em in real good" drill. Makes no difference whatsover.

I'm just about the point of recycling the whole mess.


I'll be happy to provide recycling service for you.  I won't even 
charge you for shipping ;-)


What I'd do is to take the RAM out of your son's working 867 and, one 
at a time, put the "bad" RAM in and see if it boots.


If they're all testing good there, then you can start putting them in 
the non-working 867 (one at a time) to see if you can get it to boot. 
Don't forget to hit the CUDA switch.  Or whatever it's called these 
days.


If they all work in your son's 867 and not in the other, there's a 
possibility that you have a problem with the RAM slots.


You might also try swapping the "bad" 867 processor into the working 
machine to see if you *really did* cook it.  It seems to me that it 
could have survived 30 seconds without smoking, but then again I 
wasn't there - use your own judgement on whether it's worth testing.



--
Bill Christensen


Green Building Professionals Directory: 
Sustainable Building Calendar: 
Green Real Estate: 
Straw Bale Registry: 
Books/videos/software: 

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Re: USB/FW/other Panel Replacement

[Bill Connelly]

On Jan 24, 2010, at 10:52 PM, Chance Reecher wrote:


Halfway down the page:

http://stn2.headgap.com/resale/FMPro?-token=13531991&-db=ProductsC.fp3&-lay=WEB&-format=items.htm&-sortfield=SortID&-Max=40&category=acces&-find



Thats what I remember. Don't seem to be many around (out of stock),  
and I ran across this "not working under 10.5" article:

http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/feedback/sweet_multiport_reviews.html

They look really nice: USB2, FW, other, Front Panel including the  PCI  
card for connectivity. Kits for QS and one for MDD.


Still searching ... any experience using one? or similar?

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Re: USB/FW/other Panel Replacement

[Chance Reecher]

Halfway down the page:

http://stn2.headgap.com/resale/FMPro?-token=13531991&-db=ProductsC.fp3&-lay=WEB&-format=items.htm&-sortfield=SortID&-Max=40&category=acces&-find

On Sun, Jan 24, 2010 at 10:43 PM, Kasey Smith  wrote:
>
>
>
> I have seen thing like this over at theheadgapstore.com , I kinda want to
> get one for my Mac here (G3 B&W)
>

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Re: USB/FW/other Panel Replacement

[Kasey Smith]

On Jan 24, 2010, at 8:38 PM, Bill Connelly wrote:

Anyone remember where a USB / FW / other port panel that can be  
used to replace a Zip drive, and give front panel access to USB /  
FW / other can be found?


Want one for my Digital Audio Dual 533 G4 running OS X 10.5.8.

Thanks


I have seen thing like this over at theheadgapstore.com , I kinda  
want to get one for my Mac here (G3 B&W)


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Re: g5 question

[Jack Countryman]

I've seen dual 1.8 and dual 2.3 that were also liquid cooled...don't know if
that was typical or not.
Single 1.6, single 1.8, dual 2.0 seem to have been air cooled.

On 1/24/10 4:20 PM, "J.M.P.Hissel"  wrote:

> On 24-01-2010 05:47, roger d, stink...@ptd.net, wrote:
> 
>> what powermacs where liquid cooled? where all late 05 powermac g5s
>> liquid cooled?
> 
> No. Only the early and the late dual 2.5 GHz and the 2.7 GHz are liquid
> cooled.
> 
> Jo Hissel
> 


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USB/FW/other Panel Replacement

[Bill Connelly]

Anyone remember where a USB / FW / other port panel that can be used  
to replace a Zip drive, and give front panel access to USB / FW /  
other can be found?


Want one for my Digital Audio Dual 533 G4 running OS X 10.5.8.

Thanks

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Re: Safe mode startup and Terminal commands

[Dan]

At 6:10 PM -0800 1/24/2010, Jonas Lopez wrote:
Starting up in Safe mode using the Shift key and starting in 
 single user mode you can issue the command to


Note please that Safe Mode and Single User Mode are VERY different.

test the hd partition thusly:  the test will proceed 
on the system and partition your in, BUT is it possible to command 
that the test be done on a different partition (other than the one 
your starting up in) and or on a different hd? What would the 
command be for this?


The command
  man fsck
will provide you with full details.


Disk Utility's Verify Disk and Repair Disk functions are a GUI for 
fsck.  There is no need to use any non-normal boot to verify any 
volume.  There is no need to use any non-normal boot to repair any 
non-boot volume.


To repair your boot volume, you need to either boot on a different 
volume (an OS X DVD or a clone) OR use Single User Mode.  If you 
choose to do that latter, then the safest way to do things is to run 
AppleJack.  Let it handle everything - starting the required 
ancillary services and running fsck.


- Dan.
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Safe mode startup and Terminal commands

[Jonas Lopez]

Safe mode startup and Terminal commands

Starting up in Safe mode using the Shift key and starting in  single 
user mode you can issue the command to test the hd partition thusly: 
 the test will proceed on the system and partition your in, BUT 
is it possible to command that the test be done on a different partition (other 
than the one your starting up in) and or on a different hd? What would the 
command be for this?

G4 450 MHz box with OS 10.4.11 X 10.2.8. AGP Graphics on a card. Both are 
connected by 4 port LinkSys BEFSR41. 12 Gb hd in 4Gb and 8Gb partitions. 470 
Mb, Zip, fd, DVD/cd Drive, all are Apple branded.
===


  

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Re: g5 question

[J.M.P.Hissel]

On 24-01-2010 05:47, roger d, stink...@ptd.net, wrote:

> what powermacs where liquid cooled? where all late 05 powermac g5s
> liquid cooled?

No. Only the early and the late dual 2.5 GHz and the 2.7 GHz are liquid
cooled.

Jo Hissel


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MDD "bad RAM" 3 beeps: I'm feeling even dumber than usual

[tonycd]

Recently came into a trio of known-good MDD's: two dual 867s and one
dual 1.25.  I had personally witnessed that all three machines were
capable of booting up and running.

The 1.25 is the first one I received. It turned out to have a disabled
DVD drive, for whatever reason. After seeking the advice of the kindly
people on this board, I replaced the DVD drive (twice, because of
physical door fit, but that's another story). The new one still didn't
work.

I then came into possession of the two dual-867 machines. Both had
some one or two 512 RAM cards and one or two smaller ones, but seemed
identical in all respects.

I loaded all the 512s from the two 867 machines into one of them,
chosen pretty much at random, since I needed one machine more urgently
than two. Eventually, after some stumbling around, this turned out to
be a sweet-running (if somewhat noisy) Mac that's now being enjoyed by
my son.

The other two, though, are another matter. Eventually, I punted and
started swapping around both RAM cards and CPUs. I had two old and
small RAM cards, four newer 2700-speed 512 RAM cards, one older/slower
CPU card, and one newer/faster CPU card.

In the course of ineptly testing the slower machine, I ran it for
about 30 seconds without the heat sink on the 867 card. Bye-bye 867
card. (Yes, I know. Dumb.)

Now I have the faster CPU, both chassis, both machines' hard drives
with Tiger on them after the previous owner wiped them and reinstalled
the OS, a CD drive, a DVD drive of unknown condition, and the
aforementioned proven-good RAM cards.

Current state: Both machines, when fitted with the remaining CPU and
either hard drive, give the interrupted chime and 3 beeps that is
supposed to mean all the RAM is bad. I did the "pencil eraser and
shove 'em in real good" drill. Makes no difference whatsover.

I'm just about the point of recycling the whole mess. I'm sure this
reaction would be just about as ignorant as all my other moves up to
this point. Suggestions?

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Re: Lost hd space - where did it go?

[Kasey Smith]

On Jan 23, 2010, at 5:36 PM, Jonas Lopez wrote:


Lost hd space - where did it go?
Cleaning up no longer needed stuff, emptied 8 Gb partition - all  
gone - yet info shows 2.6 Gb, trash has been emptied. At a loss for  
where and what is still using 2.6 Gb?


Any ideas will be helpful.


G4 450 MHz box with OS 8.1-9.2, X 10.2.8. AGP Graphics on a card.  
Both are connected by 4 port LinkSys BEFSR41. 20 Gb hd in 8Gb and  
12Gb partitions, 470 Mb, Zip, fd, DVD/cd Drive, all are Apple branded.
== 
=


If you are looking at the free space number on the desktop, that  
number isn't refreshed. Open a finder window from the hard druve and  
look at the bottoom


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Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?

[Gorka Martinez Mezo]

> Every B&W G3 and G4 was a breeze to work on, except for the nasty  
> sharp bits pulling the optical drive cable and after a while you  
> develop sufficient scar tissue across your knuckles that you don't  
> notice.

Having work in both the beige G3 desktop and G4 GE, as well as inside many 
generic PC boxes, the Macs are much easier to work with.

The same for the Performa 630 series, although more disassembly in needed. My 
similar vintage Siemens-Nixdorf 486/100 desktop is much easier to work with, 
altough the case in much higher. And has lots of slots.

Gorka from Spain

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Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?

[Bruce Johnson]

On Jan 24, 2010, at 8:55 AM, Dan wrote:

Not crazy about the iMac G4 design (too many with limp necks).  But  
I really like the rest of the iMac designs over the years.  Very  
cool. sigh. Now if only they were easier to repair.  Good industrial  
design should, IMO, include easy-open / access features.  Yea, I  
know - Jobs is anti-user upgrade.  But geeze - 90% of the bench time  
should NOT be taken up by just opening and closing a machine!


Only iMacs, really, and then just some, the G4 iMac in particular. The  
G5 iMac was remarkably easy to get into. If only we didn't have to on  
such a regular basis...it's as if they knew that one was going to be  
the problem child.


But then I still have my 11" long torx screwdriver and case cracker in  
the toolbox. :-)


Every B&W G3 and G4 was a breeze to work on, except for the nasty  
sharp bits pulling the optical drive cable and after a while you  
develop sufficient scar tissue across your knuckles that you don't  
notice.


Of the earlier PowerPC macs only the tower models were a PITA, the  
desktops were easy to work on; and the PC's of the same era were just  
as bad, if not worse. There has been more than one old Dell design  
that I've been unable to figure out how to even open the case without  
resorting to research.  I swear, sometimes that Dell employed the guy  
who designed this  .


:-)

IMO the worst single design decision Apple ever made (after the puck  
mouse, which is an entire 'sucky design decision' magnitude greater)  
was the placement of the power switch on the Centris 610. 


Back in the bad old days, when there were only three Macs in the  
entire college, in one prof's lab, mac newbies would constantly  
complain to me that every time they tried to eject a disk the computer  
shut down :-)


--
Bruce Johnson

"Wherever you go, there you are" B. Banzai,  PhD

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Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?

[Bruce Johnson]

On Jan 24, 2010, at 12:05 AM, Mac User #330250 wrote:



Are there any free Mac games out there that will play nicely on my  
G3 B&W? I'm

running Mac OS X 10.4.11 Tiger if that matters.


Glider Pro:



A very very classic Mac game.

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Re: How can I import a Powerpoint/Keynote file into iDVD & Make a slide show?

[Bruce Johnson]

On Jan 23, 2010, at 5:55 PM, Michael B. in Cincinnati wrote:


Is there a way to do this while keeping the text comments added to the
slides without simply starting over with an entire new set of
pictures? I can't find a way in iPhoto to add text to the pictures,
and feel forced back to Windows...~(8^{)=


Export the presentation as a jpeg, with 'save every slide as a series  
of graphics files' selected in options.


Drag all into iPhoto, make a slide show out of them there with the  
desired transitions, soundtrack, etc, then export that to iDVD.


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Re: Dual 867 to Dual 1.25 MDD G4... worth it?

[Digital Bill]

> > I have a chance to pick up a Dual 1.25Ghz MDD G4 at a good price. I
> > currently have a dual 867 MDD  and I would shuffle the machines so the
> > new one would be the workhorse and the old one would be a file server
> > and backup. In the process, I'd max out the RAM in the 1.25 and move

I've received some good suggestions on- and off-list, so thanks for
that. Just to be clear, however, I'm not looking to upgrade the dual
867 as much as I am looking to add a faster G4 machine to my mix,
sliding the dual 867 down to "backup" and "file server" status. So as
much as I'm tempted to bump up the 867 to a faster clock speed, I'd
much prefer adding a newer, faster machine to my network and
relegating the 867 to lighter duty.

--Bill

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Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?

[Kasey Smith]

On Jan 24, 2010, at 8:55 AM, Dan wrote:


At 3:16 AM -0500 1/24/2010, Miguel Garcia Gell wrote:
Every body talk about what's is inside of a PPC's family  
BUT!...What about OUTSIDE?...I'm a industrial designer and let me  
tell you... Apple's Power PC are the most beautiful, equilibrating  
and gorgeous design of this century... PLUS all the good's and bad  
stuff of you can say...FOR ME, this classics are like a necessary  
furniture at home(I have 3PPC already from iMac,Digital A. to  
MDD800). Thank you Steve Job and he's TEAM...they are artist!!!


I thought it was funny to see how the other companies jumped on  
copying the iMac.


Not crazy about the iMac G4 design (too many with limp necks).  But  
I really like the rest of the iMac designs over the years.  Very  
cool. sigh.  Now if only they were easier to repair.  Good  
industrial design should, IMO, include easy-open / access  
features.  Yea, I know - Jobs is anti-user upgrade.  But geeze -  
90% of the bench time should NOT be taken up by just opening and  
closing a machine!


The Power Mac G5 / Mac Pro box... love it.  But it's a bit stale  
now, so I've been wondering where Apple will go with it.


- Dan.
--
- Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth.


err, for the easy opening

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Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?

[Kasey Smith]

On Jan 24, 2010, at 8:55 AM, Dan wrote:


At 3:16 AM -0500 1/24/2010, Miguel Garcia Gell wrote:
Every body talk about what's is inside of a PPC's family  
BUT!...What about OUTSIDE?...I'm a industrial designer and let me  
tell you... Apple's Power PC are the most beautiful, equilibrating  
and gorgeous design of this century... PLUS all the good's and bad  
stuff of you can say...FOR ME, this classics are like a necessary  
furniture at home(I have 3PPC already from iMac,Digital A. to  
MDD800). Thank you Steve Job and he's TEAM...they are artist!!!


I thought it was funny to see how the other companies jumped on  
copying the iMac.


Not crazy about the iMac G4 design (too many with limp necks).  But  
I really like the rest of the iMac designs over the years.  Very  
cool. sigh.  Now if only they were easier to repair.  Good  
industrial design should, IMO, include easy-open / access  
features.  Yea, I know - Jobs is anti-user upgrade.  But geeze -  
90% of the bench time should NOT be taken up by just opening and  
closing a machine!


The Power Mac G5 / Mac Pro box... love it.  But it's a bit stale  
now, so I've been wondering where Apple will go with it.


- Dan.
--
- Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth.


It's called the Slot-Loading iMacs ;)

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Re: MDD hangs on Startup

[Dan]

At 3:00 AM -0800 1/24/2010, Gary D. wrote:

I'm having an annoying problem with my MDD (2003) running 10.4.11 that
I haven't been able to solve. It almost always hangs during the first
attempt to start but nearly always starts on the second attempt.


Does the hang occur if you boot into Safe Mode (shift key held down)?


Jan 23 15:53:22 localhost mDNSResponder: Couldn't read user-specified
Computer Name; using default "Macintosh-" instead

When it starts, it looks like this:

Jan 23 15:55:20 GDearths-Power-Mac-G4-MDD configd[39]: setting
hostname to "GDearths-Power-Mac-G4-MDD.local"

and then runs normally.


The system name is stored in
/Library/Preferences/SystemConfiguration/preferences.plist

I'm reluctant to suggest trashing that file tho, because there's a 
lot of other stuff in there and it's used in conjunction with other 
prefs.


Try changing your system name in the Sharing system preferences pane. 
Make sure there are no special characters in it - no apostrophes etc.


Install AppleJack and use it to do a deep cleaning.  Perhaps it's 
plist check will find something.


- Dan.
--
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Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?

[Dan]

At 8:05 AM +0100 1/24/2010, Mac User #330250 wrote:


What games are you playing?


I don't game much.  But in the past, I've enjoyed the ones from 
Ambrosia.  Maelstrom, Chiral, Barrack, Bubble Trouble, Aki (Mah 
Jong), etc.


Been a while since I perused their site, but as I recall they still 
have their older games available, that run quite well on older 
machines and OSes.




Also check the game category on MacUpdate.

- Dan.
--
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Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?

[Dan]

At 3:16 AM -0500 1/24/2010, Miguel Garcia Gell wrote:
Every body talk about what's is inside of a PPC's family BUT!...What 
about OUTSIDE?...I'm a industrial designer and let me tell you... 
Apple's Power PC are the most beautiful, equilibrating and gorgeous 
design of this century... PLUS all the good's and bad stuff of you 
can say...FOR ME, this classics are like a necessary furniture at 
home(I have 3PPC already from iMac,Digital A. to MDD800). Thank you 
Steve Job and he's TEAM...they are artist!!!


I thought it was funny to see how the other companies jumped on 
copying the iMac.


Not crazy about the iMac G4 design (too many with limp necks).  But I 
really like the rest of the iMac designs over the years.  Very cool. 
sigh.  Now if only they were easier to repair.  Good industrial 
design should, IMO, include easy-open / access features.  Yea, I know 
- Jobs is anti-user upgrade.  But geeze - 90% of the bench time 
should NOT be taken up by just opening and closing a machine!


The Power Mac G5 / Mac Pro box... love it.  But it's a bit stale now, 
so I've been wondering where Apple will go with it.


- Dan.
--
- Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth.

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Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?

[Wallace Adrian D'Alessio]

On Sun, Jan 24, 2010 at 3:16 AM, Miguel Garcia Gell wrote:

> *Every body talk about what's is inside of a PPC's family BUT!...What
> about OUTSIDE?...I'm a industrial designer and let me tell you... Apple's
> Power PC are the most beautiful, equilibrating and gorgeous design of this
> century... PLUS all the good's and bad stuff of you can say...FOR ME, this
> classics are like a necessary furniture at home(I have 3PPC already from
> iMac,Digital A. to MDD800). Thank you Steve Job and he's TEAM...they are
> artist!!!*
>
>  __


But Miguel !  Do you LIKE them ?  ;-)



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MDD hangs on Startup

[Gary D.]

Hi all,

I'm having an annoying problem with my MDD (2003) running 10.4.11 that
I haven't been able to solve. It almost always hangs during the first
attempt to start but nearly always starts on the second attempt. I've
replaced the battery and cloned the software to another drive for
startup as well as run the usual utilities but to no avail. Suspicious
is that, when it doesn't start, this is in the System Log:

Jan 23 15:53:22 localhost mDNSResponder: Couldn't read user-specified
Computer Name; using default “Macintosh-” instead

When it starts, it looks like this:

Jan 23 15:55:20 GDearths-Power-Mac-G4-MDD configd[39]: setting
hostname to "GDearths-Power-Mac-G4-MDD.local"

and then runs normally.

Any ideas? Thanks in advance.

Gary

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Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?

[Stephen Conrad]

On Sun, Jan 24, 2010 at 1:05 AM, Mac User #330250 wrote:

> --  Original message  --
> Subject: Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?
> Date:Sonntag 24 Januar 2010N
> From:Stephen Conrad 
> To:  g3-5-list@googlegroups.com
>
> > On Sat, Jan 23, 2010 at 7:23 PM, captarne  >wrote:
> > > Well I use them mostly as a hobby, I just was given a pre imac all in
> > > one G3 266 and it works great! I can put all my old OS 9 games on it
> > > Arne
> >
> > I mainly use my 8600/200 as storage but every once in a blue moon I play
> a
> > game on it.
> > My Smurf sees the same usage (I really gotta get my iTunes stuff off of
> it)
> > My only other PMs (5400/180 and 5260/100) both have issues I have yet to
> > fix. Neither seems to want to show me anything (on one the message says
> it
> > cannot find a boot volume and the other has some problem I cannot
> recall).
> > If I get them working they'll be for games most likely
>
> What games are you playing?
>

Right now? I play two on Tagged.com (Mafia Wars and Sorority Wars) and two
on Facebook (Vampire Wars and Zombie Wars). I also play games on Pogo.com
(mostly Word Whomp!). But these I play using my Quicksilver.
When the older ones were being used I played Tetris, Despaire, Solitaire,
etc.
I have some on my older machines (SE FDHD, SE, Plus, IIsi, IIci) but they
are not being used right now.
I also play games on my ][e and //c

>
> Due to my background I don't have even one single Mac game. I have a dozen
> DOS
> games though, and I was wondering if I could play one of those on my "new"
> G4
> B&W with 350 MHz.
> So I installed DOSBox and launched my favorite game Ultima Underworld, but
> it
> is unplayable on the G3 B&W due to its performace. Works well on the
> Quicksilver and on the G5.
>
> So I'm wondering: I _really don't_ wont to inverst any more money on this.
> I
> already did too much for what I do with my older Macs.
>
> Are there any free Mac games out there that will play nicely on my G3 B&W?
> I'm
> running Mac OS X 10.4.11 Tiger if that matters.
>
> There are several Mac FTP sites out there.
Find any FTP program or do a Google search for Mac FTP sites



-- 
Steve Conrad
Henrietta, MO 64036

"The time has come for mankind to grow up and leave its cradle behind; to go
forth and claim our place in outer space."
  - Capt. Henry Gloval


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Help Bunny Take Over The World!

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Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?

[Miguel Garcia Gell]

*Every body talk about what's is inside of a PPC's family BUT!...What about
OUTSIDE?...I'm a industrial designer and let me tell you... Apple's Power PC
are the most beautiful, equilibrating and gorgeous design of this century...
PLUS all the good's and bad stuff of you can say...FOR ME, this classics are
like a necessary furniture at home(I have 3PPC already from iMac,Digital A.
to MDD800). Thank you Steve Job and he's TEAM...they are artist!!!*

-- 
You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for 
those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs.
The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette 
guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml
To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list