Re: I am forced to go Intel? Common rant, I guess.
On 10/05/11 12:50 PM, Bruce Johnson john...@pharmacy.arizona.edu wrote: Go to these sources: http://www.tonymacx86.com/ http://groups.google.com/group/hq-a?hl=en For a wealth of information on building a Hack that DOES NOT REQUIRE altering the OS X installer; you install from the standard OS X disk. And at this point we're S far off topic, I expect the Nanny will close the thread. Woo hoo! I just built my first Custo-mac/Hackintosh! Thanks to the tonymacx86 site I was able to build a Mac Pro model 4,1 for under $1000 and it works great. I even used the upgrade disc (legit bought from Apple itself) and even though there was some hair pulling and cursing at times it is now working smoothly and I haven't seen OS X run this fast before. Core i5 4GB Ram 2TB HDD Sony Optiarc DVD-RW Gigabyte AMD/ATI 1GB Radeon HD 5770 Still my heart is with my PM G5, a model whose time was cut too short. =( -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: I am forced to go Intel? Common rant, I guess.
On Fri, 2011-05-13 at 15:15 -0700, Bruce Johnson wrote: On May 13, 2011, at 1:50 PM, Ralph Green wrote: On Fri, 2011-05-13 at 09:46 -0700, Bruce Johnson wrote: On May 12, 2011, at 7:33 PM, Ralph Green wrote: I called Apple hardware treacherous. I did not come up with that term. It is widely used, No it isn't because you're the only person I've ever read or heard making that claim. I think it is interesting that because you have not heard it, that you can assert it is not widely used. Here is a 5 year old reference to it. http://www.linux.com/archive/feed/55765 Read one of the original documents about treacherous computing http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/can-you-trust.html Richard Stallman is one of the giants of computer science, but he's also pretty much an extremist. Unless you are like RMS and closely examine every line of the source code for every bit of software running on your computer, at some point you have to trust the creators of the hardware and software that they are on the up-and-up. Simply asserting a worst-case-scenario and comparing it to Franklin's beloved quote about security and liberty, is engaging in deceptive hyperbole, FUD in other words. It's like arguing that roads are an intolerable infringement on your right to drive anywhere your vehicle could travel, and a tyrannical imposition on personal liberty by the treacherous state. You sure seem to like straw dog arguments. I don't assert a worst case scenario. I just avoid one. If I have 2 choices, where one leaves me in control and one gives some other person arbitrary control over my property, I pick the one where I have control. That is just rational, not extreme. I don't know what the odds of Apple trying to shut things down are. I think they are probably low, but His Steveness is such a control freak that it is naive not to consider the possibility. I have met Richard Stallman and spent time talking to him one on one. He is clearly an extremist and I disagree with him about a lot. His extremism has also benefited society quite a bit and I am grateful that he has been here. I referred to him as just one example that I did not invent the terms you acted like I did. Do you at least see that I did not coin the phrase treacherous computing and I am not alone in using the terminology? You said I was the only person you had heard or read making that claim and I pointed you to evidence. I work mostly within the open source community and I do hear the phrase fairly often. If you doubt that Apple uses TPM, read about it: http://osxbook.com/book/bonus/chapter10/tpm/ Yes. Also read where it says, and I quote: No TPM for You! Next! At the time of this writing (October 2006), the newest Apple computer models, such as the MacPro and possibly the revised MacBook Pro and the revised iMac, do not contain an onboard Infineon TPM. Apple could bring the TPM back, perhaps, if there were enough interest (after all, it is increasingly common to find TPMs in current notebook computers), but that's another story. Perhaps Apple has removed TPM. It is in their interest to say so. Apple often acts like control freaks, but they are generally honest. I already said I plan to look for confirmation of this. I'll find someone with boards I can examine, but that will take a while. I really hope that Apple has reversed their early x86 decision to use TPM and then I'll consider Apple x86 hardware. I would still say that hardware with TPM is of zero value to me, as a rule. because Apple sells hardware that obeys Apple and not the person who owns the computer. That is complete paranoid BS based on a total misunderstanding of what EFI and TPM actually are. This is so silly, I will just ignore it. It is about whether some third party can trust that you can only run software they approve of. TPM is about control and is a rather nasty thing. It has some positive aspects, but not nearly enough to balance the negatives. Only if you assume the worst case scenario all the time. I don't assume it. I just avoid it. Your arguments are, if I may drag recent politics into it, akin to the One percent doctrine Ron Suskind describes in the book of the same name, about the Bush administrations response to 9/11 and the aftermath. It is derived from a quote by vice president Cheney: if there's a 1% chance that Pakistani scientists are helping al-Qaeda build or develop a nuclear weapon, we have to treat it as a certainty in terms of our response. It's not about our analysis ... It's about our response. More straw dogs. I am probably more like the elder Bush here. It would not be prudent at this juncture. I will say if there is a 1% chance of catastrophe, it would be wrong to ignore it. RMS and your arguments about TPM are engaging in the very same fearmongering. If there is any chance that
Re: I am forced to go Intel? Common rant, I guess.
On 10/05/11 12:50 PM, Bruce Johnson john...@pharmacy.arizona.edu wrote: On May 10, 2011, at 9:27 AM, Jack Countryman wrote: IPC 10.5.6?? What's IPC mean here, or where do I find that version of 10.5.6? Yeah, I know...you know what you mean, but I'm not that much up to speed on this stuff anymore, and must have missed the post somewhere that talks about what IPC is in this context?(Last one I built that really worked was with the Kalyway distro...several years ago...if that gives you an idea of how far out of sync I am.) I'd really like to get a 10.6 machine going one of these times...just to show it can be done... Thanks. We are veering off into dealing with illegal torrents of altered OS X'es, which really isn't necessary. Go to these sources: http://www.tonymacx86.com/ http://groups.google.com/group/hq-a?hl=en For a wealth of information on building a Hack that DOES NOT REQUIRE altering the OS X installer; you install from the standard OS X disk. And at this point we're S far off topic, I expect the Nanny will close the thread. Thanks for the links Bruce! I looked at the tonyx86 site and I've just ordered my parts. Wish me luck! I was planning on saving up for a Mac Pro, but if this gets me to the promised land on the cheap then I'm a happy camper =). -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: I am forced to go Intel? Common rant, I guess.
On May 14, 2011, at 1:25 AM, Ralph Green wrote: I insist on no such thing. I just steer clear of it. No fear mongering is involved. Just rational analysis. Hence the use of rational, non-emotional words like 'treacherous' and 'His Steveness' and 'control freak'. 8-/ The *hardware* cannot be set to do what you claim, because the control of TPM is done by SOFTWARE. (and in software I'm including any firmware or EFI code to enable it because both EFI and firmware are re-writeable.) RMS has problems with proprietary* OS'es and TPM because they could be used to implement such controls as you describe, but the presence of a TPM chip alone can not do that. The link to the Amit Singh article with accompanying source code proves that. You can make the TPM module accept an arbitrary key pair for verification. Indeed, it should be possible to write a TPM driver that ensures that only truly GPL'ed and open code can run. It would involve some seriously gnarly (gnu-rly?) key management and verification stuff and require servers to do that (akin to PGP key exchanges and trust relationships) but it could be done. GPL violations could be handled by revocation of the key. Boom! Violating code no longer runs. It's like turning the Empire's strength against it. So to speak. 8-P *well,aside from his problems with proprietary software, full stop. -- Bruce Johnson Wherever you go, there you are B. Banzai, PhD -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: I am forced to go Intel? Common rant, I guess.
What is going on here is the long known fact that Microsoft is a SOFTWARE company not a hardware company and Apple is BOTH SOFTWARE AND HARDWARE company. You sure can be sure that Apple has NO INTENTION of letting ANY of its software run on all this hardware that IS NOT APPLE and that Apple did not make a profit selling it. Put another way: Money, Money, Money, fool. Now would you really blame them? I sure would. But they got the codes we do not. And Bruce points out, that is complete paranoid BS based on a total misunderstanding of what EFI and TPM actually are. As Apple moves into bigger market share, soon you will find Apple programs that are far superior to Microsoft and the public will start migrating toward Apple to replace Microsoft. The only sad part here is we are talking years and years and prices that people will pay to keep the virus problem out and the ease of use in. It is just a matter of money. JML --- On Fri, 5/13/11, Bruce Johnson john...@pharmacy.arizona.edu wrote: From: Bruce Johnson john...@pharmacy.arizona.edu Subject: Re: I am forced to go Intel? Common rant, I guess. To: g3-5-list@googlegroups.com Date: Friday, May 13, 2011, 9:46 AM On May 12, 2011, at 7:33 PM, Ralph Green wrote: I called Apple hardware treacherous. I did not come up with that term. It is widely used, No it isn't because you're the only person I've ever read or heard making that claim. because Apple sells hardware that obeys Apple and not the person who owns the computer. That is complete paranoid BS based on a total misunderstanding of what EFI and TPM actually are. If what you say is true, it should be trivial for you to point to me the place on Apple's website where they have the 'Linux Enablers' available for download. Bruce Johnson University of Arizona College of Pharmacy Information Technology Group Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: I am forced to go Intel? Common rant, I guess.
On May 13, 2011, at 9:29 AM, Bruce Johnson wrote: If you believe that EFI is some great conspiracy to prevent you from running another OS on a Mac it is YOU who doesn't understand what EFI is. I believe he's referring to TPM, not EFI. My understanding of TPM is that it's a set of cryptographic keys that prevents software from running on any untrusted system (meaning, unapproved hardware). If Apple controls the keys, then the argument is that Apple owns the computer they sold you. In labor relations, there's something known as a lock out, which the NFL is on the cusp of having now. I know it's highly unlikely, but from a theoretical standpoint Apple could lockout the owners of Intel Macs. PPC Macs would still be playing ball because our playing field has no locks or keys. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: I am forced to go Intel? Common rant, I guess.
Bruce, EFI is fine. BIOS had major problems, since it runs in real mode. It is TPM that is the problem. Apple certainly used TPM on their early x86 hardware. If they have removed it, that is a good thing. I will have to search for some real evidence on that matter. Ralph On Fri, 2011-05-13 at 07:29 -0700, Bruce Johnson wrote: On May 12, 2011, at 6:48 PM, Ralph Green wrote: but the fact that Apple releases enablers to allow other operating systems to run seems to indicate that the TPM is really there and implemented. Apple releases Windows drivers for it's hardware, not 'enablers for other operating systems'; BootCamp is just a bootloader. There is no 'enabler for Linux'...you can take ANY Linux distro for X86 and install it on a Mac; you need nothing from Apple. Some hardware may not work well, pending driver issues, but that's true of lots of hardware. If you believe that EFI is some great conspiracy to prevent you from running another OS on a Mac it is YOU who doesn't understand what EFI is. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: I am forced to go Intel? Common rant, I guess.
Sorry Alex, I was refering to the fact that MS has some 90+% of the business and military market based upon the programs running that are owned as the creator by MS. So as to have been a fly on the wall in Apples core meetings, it was clear that the way to increase market is to change chip sets and at the same time gain speed. You got to give these CORE meetings much, much, more respect, they ARE LOOKING 10 20 and more years ahead and sure have planned a course that will allow take over of most of them 90% you see now, because Apple has a better product. It is clearly a business decision, money goes where the best return is gained and in the computer world that will soon be with Apple as the non apple (MS) users are learning cheap gets you in, but the costs kill you and as they look at Apple and see the quality built in with no costs, hey, they will come, they will come. JML --- On Fri, 5/13/11, Alex Barnes kab...@gmail.com wrote: From: Alex Barnes kab...@gmail.com Subject: Re: I am forced to go Intel? Common rant, I guess. To: g3-5-list@googlegroups.com Date: Friday, May 13, 2011, 12:25 PM That already happened. I have found that iMovie is superior to WMM and iWork is far, far superior to M$ Office (even AppleWorks is better). On May 13, 2011, at 12:29 PM, Jonas Lopez wrote: As Apple moves into bigger market share, soon you will find Apple programs that are far superior to Microsoft and the public will start migrating toward Apple to replace Microsoft. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: I am forced to go Intel? Common rant, I guess.
Linux with it's open-source concepts can't make changes to the proprietary code that is Flash. If Adobe doesn't compile it for Power PC there's really nothing the open-source world can do about it. There are a few Free Software tools to play Flash files but all are lacking in some way - whether it's lack of new features, or lack of DRM support (not a bad thing), or something else... I've been Flash- free for years and with the rise in popularity of IOS, I suddenly have peers. In the Intel world there is considerable hesitation to support Flash but it is available and the likes of Firefox will link to it when it's installed by a user. You won't find Flash code in the distribution of a Linux OS, be it Yellow Dog, ubuntu, of others who subscribe to open-source philosophy. Some distributions make it relatively painless to install; some install it by default. Some just don't care and you're on your own. I don't have it installed, and I told Firefox friends to stop asking me to install it. The web is much quieter. Minitube plays most Youtube videos, but only the Linux binaries are gratis - you have to pay for the Mac binaries. (The source is Free.) As for the future of Flash, check out the features of HTML5, especially its new video tag. There are open-source options like oog. HTML5 video will never include support for DRM, so I don't think Flash or other proprietary plugins will ever really die. I just don't give companies that use that stuff my money, and everything works out. I'm actually switching from this 1100MHz Intel box to a G5, once I figure out this last little question. But that goes in another thread. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: I am forced to go Intel? Common rant, I guess.
On May 12, 2011, at 3:59 PM, Ralph Green wrote: I used an Ubuntu box, since Firefox 4 doesn't run on any of my macs. The 1.2 GHz G4 I am eying should be fast enough, if FF4 gets recompiled for PPC. Already been done, FF4 for PPC: http://www.floodgap.com/software/tenfourfox/ -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: I am forced to go Intel? Common rant, I guess.
On Thu, 2011-05-12 at 15:14 -0700, Bruce Johnson wrote: On May 12, 2011, at 1:59 PM, Ralph Green wrote: Apple's hardware is worthless to me, since I won't buy treacherous hardware. Whaaa??? Apple's x86 hardware uses Intel TPM. There are some at Apple who deny this, but the fact that Apple releases enablers to allow other operating systems to run seems to indicate that the TPM is really there and implemented. Now, I could turn out to be wrong about this, and I would be happy to be proven wrong about this. Absent sufficient evidence on the lack of TPM, I have no interest whatsoever in Apple x86 hardware. I have the quaint belief that when I buy a computer, I get to decide what runs on it. I am accused of being insufficiently deferential to his Steveness, and I accept that as true. I won't use a computer where someone else can turn it off at will and decide what I can and cannot run. OSX is quite nice, but the hardware decisions of his Steveness have been pretty bad lately, anyway. For just one complaint of many, what kind of idiot would design a laptop or media player where you can't replace the battery? Have a good day, Ralph -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: I am forced to go Intel? Common rant, I guess.
The reason why the battery can't be replaced is because it is so large, lasts 10, 7 or 8 hours depending on your model and can take up to 1000 cycles. How does Steve Jobs decide what runs on Mac OS X??? An iMac with a Radeon 6970 coupled to a Sandy Bridge Core i7 is a bad hardware decision??? Apple's x86 hardware uses Intel TPM. There are some at Apple who deny this, but the fact that Apple releases enablers to allow other operating systems to run seems to indicate that the TPM is really there and implemented. Now, I could turn out to be wrong about this, and I would be happy to be proven wrong about this. Absent sufficient evidence on the lack of TPM, I have no interest whatsoever in Apple x86 hardware. I have the quaint belief that when I buy a computer, I get to decide what runs on it. I am accused of being insufficiently deferential to his Steveness, and I accept that as true. I won't use a computer where someone else can turn it off at will and decide what I can and cannot run. OSX is quite nice, but the hardware decisions of his Steveness have been pretty bad lately, anyway. For just one complaint of many, what kind of idiot would design a laptop or media player where you can't replace the battery? Have a good day, Ralph -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: I am forced to go Intel? Common rant, I guess.
On 5/10/11 1:51 PM, Alex Barnes wrote: You can also go with Linux Mint 10. I prefer it to Ubuntu. You can build a cheap quad core system for under $500. Just get your parts form CompUSA. Oh sure, drive from OKC to where ever there is a CompUSA to buy parts from a store that laid me off in 2001. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: I am forced to go Intel? Common rant, I guess.
On Thu, 2011-05-12 at 20:33 -0600, Alex Barnes wrote: Just because you have an issue with a store doesn't mean everyone else does. My CompUSA is 1 mile from my house. On May 12, 2011, at 8:20 PM, Charles Lenington wrote: On 5/10/11 1:51 PM, Alex Barnes wrote: You can also go with Linux Mint 10. I prefer it to Ubuntu. You can build a cheap quad core system for under $500. Just get your parts form CompUSA. Oh sure, drive from OKC to where ever there is a CompUSA to buy parts from a store that laid me off in 2001. Howdy, Maybe this will make you feel better. The current CompUSA has very little relation to the company that laid you off. That company went bankrupt and sold off the name. The new company is really just the retail store division of Tiger Direct. And, don't use Mint. Mint looks nice, but it includes Adobe Flash. Flash is bad for many reason. and should be avoided. Dancing baloney is not worth the rights you give up per the license, nor the insecurity it causes on your system, nor the instability. Good day, Ralph -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: I am forced to go Intel? Common rant, I guess.
On Thu, 2011-05-12 at 20:03 -0600, Alex Barnes wrote: The reason why the battery can't be replaced is because it is so large, lasts 10, 7 or 8 hours depending on your model and can take up to 1000 cycles. How does Steve Jobs decide what runs on Mac OS X??? An iMac with a Radeon 6970 coupled to a Sandy Bridge Core i7 is a bad hardware decision??? Alex, Other manufacturers manage to have user replaceable batteries with similar form factors. It is not the i7 and Sandy Bridge that are the problems. I said they made a lot of bad hardware decisions, but keeping up with the latest CPUs is not among them. You ought to read up on the EFI and TPM, since you don't seem to understand them. Apple picked versions of Intel's motherboards that only allow code that has been properly signed to run. The issue is who decides on properly. Apple allows OSX to run, and releases enablers to allow Linux to run. But, with a firmware update, and those do come down from time to time, they could change the signatures needed and lock out all the old enablers. All it takes is for someone at Apple to decide they don't want Linux or whatever running on Apple hardware. I am not saying Apple has done this yet. I am not saying I want to run Linux on Apple x86 hardware right now. I am saying I don't want to put myself in a position where I have this uncertainty. If I buy a computer, I will buy one where I decide what runs on it, not Apple. I called Apple hardware treacherous. I did not come up with that term. It is widely used, because Apple sells hardware that obeys Apple and not the person who owns the computer. Good day, Ralph -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: I am forced to go Intel? Common rant, I guess.
What happened to Yellow Dog Linux PPC? At least at some point in the past when Apple was still on PPC, that was the Linux to run, if you needed to run it on Apple hw. Jerry On 05/10/11 15:58, Alex Barnes wrote: PPC linux has terrible 3rd party support. Most versions of software say linux but don't specify that it's x86 or x64 only. You can pull it off though. You'll need Debian Linux as it has the best PPC support. On May 10, 2011, at 2:08 PM, imrazor wrote: On May 10, 1:46 pm, Doug McNutt dougl...@macnauchtan.com wrote: Give some serious consideration to using ubuntu Linux on a used or otherwise cheap Intel machine. If the OP wants Flash, Linux PPC is not the way to go. Last time I tried Ubuntu on a G5, Flash support was horrible. Had a lot of trouble with Bluetooth as well, though my Radeon 9700 was surprisingly functional. Eric -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: I am forced to go Intel? Common rant, I guess.
At 19:18 -0500 5/10/11, Jerry Kemp wrote: What happened to Yellow Dog Linux PPC? At least at some point in the past when Apple was still on PPC, that was the Linux to run, if you needed to run it on Apple hw. I think the OP's original problem was the fact that Adobe Flash and other byproducts of the World Wide Web were not being updated on Motorola/IBM/Apple Power PC hardware. Linux with it's open-source concepts can't make changes to the proprietary code that is Flash. If Adobe doesn't compile it for Power PC there's really nothing the open-source world can do about it. In the Intel world there is considerable hesitation to support Flash but it is available and the likes of Firefox will link to it when it's installed by a user. You won't find Flash code in the distribution of a Linux OS, be it Yellow Dog, ubuntu, of others who subscribe to open-source philosophy. As for the future of Flash, check out the features of HTML5, especially its new video tag. There are open-source options like oog. -- -- From the U S of A, the only socialist country that refuses to admit it. -- -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: I am forced to go Intel? Common rant, I guess.
I tried it. And hated it. I don't know why though... On May 10, 2011, at 6:18 PM, Jerry Kemp wrote: What happened to Yellow Dog Linux PPC? At least at some point in the past when Apple was still on PPC, that was the Linux to run, if you needed to run it on Apple hw. Jerry On 05/10/11 15:58, Alex Barnes wrote: PPC linux has terrible 3rd party support. Most versions of software say linux but don't specify that it's x86 or x64 only. You can pull it off though. You'll need Debian Linux as it has the best PPC support. On May 10, 2011, at 2:08 PM, imrazor wrote: On May 10, 1:46 pm, Doug McNutt dougl...@macnauchtan.com wrote: Give some serious consideration to using ubuntu Linux on a used or otherwise cheap Intel machine. If the OP wants Flash, Linux PPC is not the way to go. Last time I tried Ubuntu on a G5, Flash support was horrible. Had a lot of trouble with Bluetooth as well, though my Radeon 9700 was surprisingly functional. Eric -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: I am forced to go Intel? Common rant, I guess.
On May 10, 2011, at 9:27 AM, Jack Countryman wrote: IPC 10.5.6?? What's IPC mean here, or where do I find that version of 10.5.6? Yeah, I know...you know what you mean, but I'm not that much up to speed on this stuff anymore, and must have missed the post somewhere that talks about what IPC is in this context?(Last one I built that really worked was with the Kalyway distro...several years ago...if that gives you an idea of how far out of sync I am.) I'd really like to get a 10.6 machine going one of these times...just to show it can be done... Thanks. We are veering off into dealing with illegal torrents of altered OS X'es, which really isn't necessary. Go to these sources: http://www.tonymacx86.com/ http://groups.google.com/group/hq-a?hl=en For a wealth of information on building a Hack that DOES NOT REQUIRE altering the OS X installer; you install from the standard OS X disk. And at this point we're S far off topic, I expect the Nanny will close the thread. -- Bruce Johnson University of Arizona College of Pharmacy Information Technology Group Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: I am forced to go Intel? Common rant, I guess.
Well, if you know Kalyway, then you know that any hack disc image is going to have a name. IPC 10.5.6 Final was just one that worked for this poster. Google it, you'll see downloads available. On May 10, 12:27 pm, Jack Countryman jcoun...@mac.com wrote: IPC 10.5.6?? What's IPC mean here, or where do I find that version of 10.5.6? -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: I am forced to go Intel? Common rant, I guess.
IPC is the distro of 10.5.6 that I used. I recommend it, out of all the ones I've tried, it's the best. It has all the drivers and patches needed for the two systems I mentioned before. -Jonas -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: I am forced to go Intel? Common rant, I guess.
On Mon, May 9, 2011 at 10:45 PM, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio fluxstrin...@gmail.com wrote: A hand me down PC laptop and a copy of Leopard might even be cheaper. In my experience, Leopard is only inexpensive if you happen to already own a retail copy of it which you can re-purpose. Otherwise Snow Leopard is IMO a better way to go with Intel. OTOH, if you know of a retail copy of Leopard I can pick up for ~$30 (or less ;-), please let me know. In the eBay auctions I've lookoed at, Leopard goes for $90 or more IIRC. FWIW, -irrational John -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: I am forced to go Intel? Common rant, I guess.
At 22:36 -0400 5/9/11, admin wrote: Adobe Flash 10.2 Intel only, I believe. Web sites are starting not to work under Leopard and Firefox Camino 2.0.7, Firefox 3.6.17, Safari 5.0.5. I can do everything I need to and still use Classic Programs with my G4 computers. I'd rather invest in redundancy with machines and external drives, but it seems the handwriting is on the wall ... I don't even have an LCD monitor. Any suggestions on a Mini that will navigate the latest browsers and web sites? Thanks. Give some serious consideration to using ubuntu Linux on a used or otherwise cheap Intel machine. I used UNIX long before 1984 and I'm likely biased but I find I can communicate quite easily between my G4 running OS 10.3.9 and my HP box running ubuntu where Firefox runs fine with the latest web nonsense. -- -- A fair tax is one that you pay but I don't -- -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: I am forced to go Intel? Common rant, I guess.
You can also go with Linux Mint 10. I prefer it to Ubuntu. You can build a cheap quad core system for under $500. Just get your parts form CompUSA. On May 10, 2011, at 12:46 PM, Doug McNutt wrote: At 22:36 -0400 5/9/11, admin wrote: Adobe Flash 10.2 Intel only, I believe. Web sites are starting not to work under Leopard and Firefox Camino 2.0.7, Firefox 3.6.17, Safari 5.0.5. I can do everything I need to and still use Classic Programs with my G4 computers. I'd rather invest in redundancy with machines and external drives, but it seems the handwriting is on the wall ... I don't even have an LCD monitor. Any suggestions on a Mini that will navigate the latest browsers and web sites? Thanks. Give some serious consideration to using ubuntu Linux on a used or otherwise cheap Intel machine. I used UNIX long before 1984 and I'm likely biased but I find I can communicate quite easily between my G4 running OS 10.3.9 and my HP box running ubuntu where Firefox runs fine with the latest web nonsense. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: I am forced to go Intel? Common rant, I guess.
For web browsing, movie watching, and word processing, you wouldn't even need a quad core. You could easily use a P4 system. I'm using a P4 3.2GHZ machine and it runs pretty fast. You could get a descent P4 system for $100-$150 easy. -Jonas -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: I am forced to go Intel? Common rant, I guess.
On May 10, 1:46 pm, Doug McNutt dougl...@macnauchtan.com wrote: Give some serious consideration to using ubuntu Linux on a used or otherwise cheap Intel machine. If the OP wants Flash, Linux PPC is not the way to go. Last time I tried Ubuntu on a G5, Flash support was horrible. Had a lot of trouble with Bluetooth as well, though my Radeon 9700 was surprisingly functional. Eric -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: I am forced to go Intel? Common rant, I guess.
PPC linux has terrible 3rd party support. Most versions of software say linux but don't specify that it's x86 or x64 only. You can pull it off though. You'll need Debian Linux as it has the best PPC support. On May 10, 2011, at 2:08 PM, imrazor wrote: On May 10, 1:46 pm, Doug McNutt dougl...@macnauchtan.com wrote: Give some serious consideration to using ubuntu Linux on a used or otherwise cheap Intel machine. If the OP wants Flash, Linux PPC is not the way to go. Last time I tried Ubuntu on a G5, Flash support was horrible. Had a lot of trouble with Bluetooth as well, though my Radeon 9700 was surprisingly functional. Eric -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: I am forced to go Intel? Common rant, I guess.
At 10:21 PM -0500 5/9/2011, Kris Tilford wrote: On May 9, 2011, at 9:36 PM, admin wrote: [with more context] Adobe Flash 10.2 Intel only, I believe. Web sites are starting not to work under Leopard and Firefox Camino 2.0.7, Firefox 3.6.17, Safari 5.0.5. I haven't encountered any problems with the final PPC Adobe Flash 10.1.102.64. What problems have you encountered? Web sites are starting not to work under Leopard and Firefox Camino 2.0.7, Firefox 3.6.17, Safari 5.0.5. Example? Yea, specifics please. This sounds more like an anti-intel complaint than anything productive. - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
I am forced to go Intel? Common rant, I guess.
Adobe Flash 10.2 Intel only, I believe. Web sites are starting not to work under Leopard and Firefox Camino 2.0.7, Firefox 3.6.17, Safari 5.0.5. I can do everything I need to and still use Classic Programs with my G4 computers. I'd rather invest in redundancy with machines and external drives, but it seems the handwriting is on the wall ... I don't even have an LCD monitor. Any suggestions on a Mini that will navigate the latest browsers and web sites? Thanks. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: I am forced to go Intel? Common rant, I guess.
On Tue, May 10, 2011 at 2:36 AM, admin oneluc...@mac.com wrote: Adobe Flash 10.2 Intel only, I believe. Web sites are starting not to work under Leopard and Firefox Camino 2.0.7, Firefox 3.6.17, Safari 5.0.5. I can do everything I need to and still use Classic Programs with my G4 computers. I'd rather invest in redundancy with machines and external drives, but it seems the handwriting is on the wall ... I don't even have an LCD monitor. Any suggestions on a Mini that will navigate the latest browsers and web sites? Thanks. Or grab a PC with some power and run a later Mac OS on it. Even cheap Intel macs are not that cheap. A hand me down PC laptop and a copy of Leopard might even be cheaper. -- Adrian D'Alessio aka; Fluxstringer fluxstrin...@gmail.com http://www.flickr.com/photos/fluxstreamcommunication/ http://www.facebook.com/FluxStringer http://www.linkedin.com/in/fluxstreamcommunications http://flux-influx.blogspot.com/ http://fluxdreams.designbinder.com/ -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: I am forced to go Intel? Common rant, I guess.
I moved to Intel, but there is no way I'm ever going to pay Apple prices. You can pick up a PC for under $100 and run Leopard on it. That is the cheapest way to go Intel. -Jonas -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: I am forced to go Intel? Common rant, I guess.
On May 9, 2011, at 9:36 PM, admin wrote: Adobe Flash 10.2 Intel only, I believe. I haven't encountered any problems with the final PPC Adobe Flash 10.1.102.64. What problems have you encountered? Web sites are starting not to work under Leopard and Firefox Camino 2.0.7, Firefox 3.6.17, Safari 5.0.5. Example? I am unaware of any websites or flash sites that don't work with PPC Macs and do work with Intel Macs. There are websites that work best with Windows Internet Explorer and don't play well with ANY Macs, but I'm unaware of any that work with Intel Macs but not PPC Macs. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: I am forced to go Intel? Common rant, I guess.
I haven't encountered any problems with the final PPC Adobe Flash 10.1.102.64. What problems have you encountered? Didn't document but an online mainstream newspaper asked for 10.2. I did just install 10.1.102.64, so will see how that does. Web sites are starting not to work under Leopard and Firefox Camino 2.0.7, Firefox 3.6.17, Safari 5.0.5. don't play well with ANY Macs Could be that. It was an online retail merchant, couldn't get to the Shopping Cart. Thanks. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: I am forced to go Intel? Common rant, I guess.
On 2011/05/09 20:36, admin so eloquently wrote: Adobe Flash 10.2 Intel only, I believe. Web sites are starting not to work under Leopard and Firefox Camino 2.0.7, Firefox 3.6.17, Safari 5.0.5. I can do everything I need to and still use Classic Programs with my G4 computers. I'd rather invest in redundancy with machines and external drives, but it seems the handwriting is on the wall ... I don't even have an LCD monitor. Any suggestions on a Mini that will navigate the latest browsers and web sites? Thanks. Could we please start new threads instead of hijacking existing threads??? Tina -- iMac 20 USB 2 1.25GHz G4 2GB RAM GeForceFX5200 Ultra 64MB VRAM 10.4.11 PB G4 15 HR-DLSD 1.67GHz G4 2GB RAM Radeon 9700 128MB VRAM 10.4.11 Mac Pro Mid-2010 2.8 GHz QC 6 GB RAM Radeon HD 5770 1GB VRAM 10.6.7 -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: I am forced to go Intel? Common rant, I guess.
I'm using a machine with an Intel D915GAG board. Fully supported, though I'm only running Leopard. I installed with IPC 10.5.6. Here is the guide I posted on my blog. I posted guides for a few other cheap Hackintosh machines. If you want to buy a complete machine that will work, I suggest the Dell Optiplex GX280. The only hardware you will need is an OSX supported ethernet card. http://www.jonasulrich.com/ -Jonas -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
