Re: daisy-chaining back up drive?
On Oct 8, 2011, at 4:40 PM, t...@nehaia.dk wrote: > I have a lacie back up drive with 3 firewire ports on the back - 1 400 and > 2 800 > > it's connected to my old g3 tower running 9.2.2 on the 400 port, turns off > and on with it, does a back up automatically on shut down - s nice > > well, over the years the house got populated with some more macs all > running either 10.4 or 10.5, and at least two of them could do with more > frequent back up too - and I'm wondering if I could just hook those two up > to the drive as well? > > the manual for the drive mentions daisy-chaining and explains that I can > attach "a device" to both 800 ports as well - small pics shows me how to, > but the devices aren't other computers, and the manual doesn't really > suggest that it's something to be done - doesn't advice against it either > though > Attaching 2 or more computers to one drive won't physically hurt the firewire interface but it may corrupt the drive. Each computer will mount the drive and there is nothing to keep them from writing contradictory directory information to the disk. So don't do it. Clark Martin Redwood City, CA, USA Macintosh / Internet Consulting "I'm a designated driver on the Information Super Highway" -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: daisy-chaining back up drive?
> Attaching 2 or more computers to one drive won't physically hurt the > firewire interface but it may corrupt the drive. Each computer will mount > the drive and there is nothing to keep them from writing contradictory > directory information to the disk. So don't do it. The IBM System/360 and its follow-ons could attach a single drive to up to eight independent CPUs, but this was supported by special software within each OS and with special commands within the drives. Basically, one processor would issue a "reserve" command to the drive, thereby preventing any other processor from accessing that drive. After all operations by the reserving processor had completed, that processor would issue a "release" command to the drive and other processors could then access the drive. Once "reserved", all other processors would see "busy" status on the drive until it was "released". Later, it became possible to lock-out data on a track-by-track basis, or on a range of tracks. This technique facilitated making "live" backups of drives which were also undergoing updates, whereby the drive would indeed be updated in real-time, but the tape backup would always contain the most recent snap-shot of the entire drive. Much later, this backup concept was extended to backups which were made to remote data centers, located perhaps thousands or even tens of thousands of miles remotely from the primary site. Micros (and minis) are nowhere near as smart in their data management and data protection schemes as are mainframes, which is probably why mainframes continue to process most "enterprise" data. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: daisy-chaining back up drive?
Den Søndag, 9/10 2011, 01:55, Clark Martin skrev: > > > Attaching 2 or more computers to one drive won't physically hurt the > firewire interface but it may corrupt the drive. Each computer will mount > the drive and there is nothing to keep them from writing contradictory > directory information to the disk. So don't do it. > > Clark Martin > Redwood City, CA, USA > Macintosh / Internet Consulting > > "I'm a designated driver on the Information Super Highway" > too bad, sounded like such an exellent idea :-( well, what other ways to use the same back up drive for two puters exists then? tia /tina -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: daisy-chaining back up drive?
Attaching 2 or more computers to one drive won't physically hurt the firewire interface but it may corrupt the drive. Each computer will mount the drive and there is nothing to keep them from writing contradictory directory information to the disk. So don't do it. too bad, sounded like such an exellent idea :-( well, what other ways to use the same back up drive for two puters exists then? just a thought - would partitioning the firewire drive work? Then mount only partition1 on mac1 and partition2 on mac2. The way I do it here is to have a NAS attached to my network, with usernames for each potential user and shares for each mac we back up. So on our NAS, there are users (named as our day-to-day mac login names) and associated passwords (for ease, and because this NAS can't talk to the internet, so it doesn't need to be madly secure, these are the same as our day-to-day mac login passwords). There are also shares (better than partitions because they're not fixed sizes) for me and for my better half, Eleanor. User 'Eleanor' has permission to write to and read from only with 'Eleanors_share' and her mac's TimeMachine backs up to this share. User 'Bruce' has permission to write to and read 'Bruce_share': my mac's TimeMachine backs up to that share. There is also a user called 'admin' which can create and delete shares, as well as read and write all of them. This was the first user set up, in the factory. I used it to create the other users and the shares and to set permissions. Of course, I changed admin's password from the factory setting. The NAS I use is a LaCie d2 2TB - it cost a little over £200 from a specialist mac reseller in Edinburgh, Scotland. You can get cheaper NASes but they are slower and the interfaces are poorer. The LaCie isn't a speed-demon but it's worked well for the past year, and LaCie's customer support was great when there was a wee issue. However, following on from Clark's advice, I'd ask 'would there be anything wrong with backing up two or more macs, using TimeMachine, to the same share? I'm sure they'd write to different sparsebundles (just as if I was using a TimeCapsule), so could there still be bad effects if both try to write at the same time? Thanks muchly Bruce -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: daisy-chaining back up drive?
At 1:40 AM +0200 10/9/2011, t...@nehaia.dk wrote: lacie back up drive with 3 firewire ports on the back [snip] wondering if I could just hook those two up to the drive as well? No. Multiple computer devices on an i/o bus (scsi, firewire, usb, etc), are not supported by OS X or the HFS+ file system. While things might seem to work if you've only got the device mounted on one computer at a time, there will be trouble. When the OS does a bus scan -- either at boot or wake or triggered (by seeing a drive spin up) or periodic, it will suddenly see the drive and try to mount the volumes. Then you'll have things mounted r/w from multiple computer with NO coordination between them. It WILL corrupt both the files systems and data. Note please that mounting the volumes r/w from one computer and r/o from the others is NOT a solution either - as there are still parts of the file system accessed r/w. Apple had a choice: Develop a distributed file system (difficult) or keep a single point of access (no brainer). They choose the latter. The "official" way to connect a drive (volume) to multiple computers is to use a NAS box (an intelligent drive that hangs off your LAN) or with sharing (a drive that connects to a single computer and that computer coordinates all access across your LAN). At 5:19 PM -0700 10/8/2011, peterh...@cruzio.com wrote: The IBM System/360 and its follow-ons could attach a single drive to up to eight independent CPUs, but this was supported by special software within each OS and with special commands within the drives. Basically, one processor would issue a "reserve" command to the drive, thereby preventing any other processor from accessing that drive. [etc] Digital did a full file system distribution in VAX/VMS, back in the mid-80s. They took IBM's techniques and distributed 'em even further as part of their VAXcluster concept. Full r/w access across multiple CPUs, with automagic failover and recovery mechanisms. Initially the CPUs had to be tied together with DEC's fast Computer Interconnect (CI) bus (dual 70 Mbps star), but later via normal ethernet. Locking was done at the record, block, and file level. Very cool. Very disappointing that this type of high reliability file system went the way of the dodo, except for enterprise Unix solutions. It's something that I think OS X should have had built-in since 10.1. sigh. Defeat from the jaws of victory. sigh. At 5:59 PM +0200 10/9/2011, t...@nehaia.dk wrote: what other ways to use the same back up drive for two puters exists then? CarbonCopyCloner will back up to afp shared volumes, be they NAS or on another computer. At 5:31 PM +0100 10/9/2011, Bruce Ryan wrote: would partitioning the firewire drive work? Then mount only partition1 on mac1 and partition2 on mac2. No. The partition map itself would be clobbered. HFS does NOT support that type of distribution. (see above). The way I do it here is to have a NAS attached to my network, with usernames for each potential user and shares for each mac we back up. [snip] The LaCie isn't a speed-demon Yea, well, that's a basic limitation of a NAS box. Unless you've coughed the Big Bucks for multiple 10 Gbps NICs, your LAN is limited. 100 Mbps to 1 Gbps is a far far cry from SATA speeds (up to 6 Gbps). Shouldn't really matter tho -- backups are usually a background operation. Who cares how fast they run?! :) FWIW, - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: daisy-chaining back up drive?
Den Søndag, 9/10 2011, 10:49, Dan skrev: > At 5:59 PM +0200 10/9/2011, t...@nehaia.dk wrote: >>what other ways to use the same back up drive for two puters exists then? > > CarbonCopyCloner will back up to afp shared volumes, be they NAS or > on another computer. > hey, lots of interesting info and history turning up here :-) well, will it then be possible to get the 10.4 or 10.5 macs to see the drive, when it's still hooked up to the old g3? maybe a stupid question, but I never succeded in accessing the old g3 from 10.4 or 10.5 - I can only do it the other way around - i.e., I can access the 10.x macs from 9.2.2, but not the 9.2.2 from 10.x and no, speed is not really an issue, and lacie is nice because they now about macs and haven't quite forgotten the old 9.x days tia /tina -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: daisy-chaining back up drive?
On Oct 9, 2011, at 1:49 PM, Dan wrote: > Locking was done at the record, block, and file level. Very cool. Very > disappointing that this type of high reliability file system went the way of > the dodo, except for enterprise Unix solutions. It's something that I think > OS X should have had built-in since 10.1. sigh. Defeat from the jaws of > victory. sigh. Not really. It took a while but a SAN does all of that and more CPUs don't ever have to know anything about available storage, it's like they're automagically growing hard drives. Why build somethingnto the OS you don't need to, when you just connect to the storage appliance like it was another hard drive. The DEC solution above restricts you to all systems runnig the same OS. A SAN doesn't care what the front end OS is. And the thing is, OS X DID have high-reliability file systems built in since 10.1: NFS. NFS is high speed, high reliablity and only a moderate pain in the ass to manage. -- Bruce Johnson University of Arizona College of Pharmacy Information Technology Group Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: daisy-chaining back up drive?
On Oct 9, 2011, at 2:09 PM, t...@nehaia.dk wrote: maybe a stupid question, but I never succeded in accessing the old g3 from 10.4 or 10.5 - I can only do it the other way around - i.e., I can access the 10.x macs from 9.2.2, but not the 9.2.2 from 10.x Sometimes I use HTTP to transfer files from an OS 9 system to an OS X one. I wrote my own httpd for this purpose. Josh -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: daisy-chaining back up drive?
On Oct 9, 2011, at 9:31 AM, Bruce Ryan wrote: >>> Attaching 2 or more computers to one drive won't physically hurt the >>> firewire interface but it may corrupt the drive. Each computer will mount >>> the drive and there is nothing to keep them from writing contradictory >>> directory information to the disk. So don't do it. >> >> too bad, sounded like such an exellent idea :-( >> >> well, what other ways to use the same back up drive for two puters exists >> then? > > just a thought - would partitioning the firewire drive work? Then mount only > partition1 on mac1 and partition2 on mac2. In theory this might work. But I don't know of a way of preventing the computer from mounting a partition. And dismounting the partition after it's already mounted would still open the door to disk corruption. In general this idea is asking for trouble. Clark Martin Redwood City, CA, USA Macintosh / Internet Consulting "I'm a designated driver on the Information Super Highway" -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: daisy-chaining back up drive?
At 3:14 PM -0700 10/9/2011, Bruce Johnson wrote: On Oct 9, 2011, at 1:49 PM, Dan wrote: Locking was done at the record, block, and file level. Very cool. Very disappointing that this type of high reliability file system went the way of the dodo, except for enterprise Unix solutions. It's something that I think OS X should have had built-in since 10.1. sigh. Defeat from the jaws of victory. sigh. [snip] And the thing is, OS X DID have high-reliability file systems built in since 10.1: NFS. NFS is high speed, high reliablity and only a moderate pain in the ass to manage. ROFLMAO - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: daisy-chaining back up drive?
another thing about this... so why would I like to daisy-chain some other devices to the drive on the other fw ports? the manual says I can, but I just can't find a reason to do so what devices and why - anyone? tia /tina -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: daisy-chaining back up drive?
I am using FreeNas 8 on a Pentium 4 computer that was no longer in use and I can store files from Windows, Mac, Linux and Unix if I want and it is easy to connect to from any computer. Running for 3 months and has been great so far. I plan on getting an ATOM board in the future for lower power usage. Todd On Sun, Oct 9, 2011 at 9:59 AM, wrote: > Den Søndag, 9/10 2011, 01:55, Clark Martin skrev: > > > > > > Attaching 2 or more computers to one drive won't physically hurt the > > firewire interface but it may corrupt the drive. Each computer will > mount > > the drive and there is nothing to keep them from writing contradictory > > directory information to the disk. So don't do it. > > > > Clark Martin > > Redwood City, CA, USA > > Macintosh / Internet Consulting > > > > "I'm a designated driver on the Information Super Highway" > > > > too bad, sounded like such an exellent idea :-( > > well, what other ways to use the same back up drive for two puters exists > then? > > tia > > /tina > > -- > You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for > those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power > Macs. > The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our > netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml > To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list > -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: daisy-chaining back up drive?
On Oct 9, 2011, at 11:59 AM, t...@nehaia.dk wrote: well, what other ways to use the same back up drive for two puters exists then? tia /tina How about the obvious Network the two computers and make the attached drive a 'network resource? Chuck D. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: daisy-chaining back up drive?
Il giorno 10-10-2011 2:39, t...@nehaia.dk ha scritto: > so why would I like to daisy-chain some other devices to the drive on the > other fw ports? > > the manual says I can, but I just can't find a reason to do so What if you have several FW devices and, say, just one available FW port on the computer? AFAIK, that's the scope of daisy-chaining: creating a "chain" of devices attached to a single port. This eliminates the need for an hub or many ports. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: daisy-chaining back up drive?
While things might seem to work if you've only got the device mounted on one computer at a time, there will be trouble. When the OS does a bus scan -- either at boot or wake or triggered (by seeing a drive spin up) or periodic, it will suddenly see the drive and try to mount the volumes. Then you'll have things mounted r/w from multiple computer with NO coordination between them. It WILL corrupt both the files systems and data. Note please that mounting the volumes r/w from one computer and r/o from the others is NOT a solution either - as there are still parts of the file system accessed r/w. Apple had a choice: Develop a distributed file system (difficult) or keep a single point of access (no brainer). They choose the latter. The "official" way to connect a drive (volume) to multiple computers is to use a NAS box (an intelligent drive that hangs off your LAN) or with sharing (a drive that connects to a single computer and that computer coordinates all access across your LAN). would partitioning the firewire drive work? Then mount only partition1 on mac1 and partition2 on mac2. No. The partition map itself would be clobbered. HFS does NOT support that type of distribution. (see above). Just curious - how does a TimeCapsule (or other drive used for TimeMachine) work? TCs aren't partitioned, and and it's quite possible for two or more macs to want to back up to them at the same time. I guess that part of the answer is that each mac has its own sparsebundle, so should only ever be accessing this single file that's specific to it. That would keep lumps of data 'protected' but what keeps the entire filesystem safe? -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: daisy-chaining back up drive?
Den Søndag, 9/10 2011, 06:35, Charles Davis skrev: > > On Oct 9, 2011, at 11:59 AM, t...@nehaia.dk wrote: > >> >> >> well, what other ways to use the same back up drive for two puters >> exists >> then? >> >> tia >> >> /tina > How about the obvious Network the two computers and make the > attached drive a 'network resource? > > Chuck D. it's just that the obvious doesn't work, because the drive is attached to the os 9 mac, and when I try to connect to that form the 10.x macs, I always get this "wrong afp version message" works fine the other way around, by going to the appleshare control panel and type in the ip of the 10.x mac I want to connect to and of course I can do manual back ups that way, it's just not as handy and thus doesn't happen as often as I'd like it to /tina -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: daisy-chaining back up drive?
On Oct 10, 4:39 am, Bruce Ryan wrote: > > Just curious - how does a TimeCapsule (or other drive used for > TimeMachine) work? TCs aren't partitioned, and and it's quite possible > for two or more macs to want to back up to them at the same time. I > guess that part of the answer is that each mac has its own > sparsebundle, so should only ever be accessing this single file that's > specific to it. That would keep lumps of data 'protected' but what > keeps the entire filesystem safe? Not exactly answering the question. I've been using Time Capsule with four Macs over ethernet or WiFi for more than two years. No problems whatever with file integrity. BTW, for CCC to my other external drive, I take Dan's advice and keep it off line except for the backup operations themselves. Al Poulin -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: daisy-chaining back up drive?
At 9:39 AM +0100 10/10/2011, Bruce Ryan wrote: how does a TimeCapsule (or other drive used for TimeMachine) work? TCs aren't partitioned, and and it's quite possible for two or more macs to want to back up to them at the same time. I guess that part of the answer is that each mac has its own sparsebundle, so should only ever be accessing this single file that's specific to it. That would keep lumps of data 'protected' but what keeps the entire filesystem safe? NAS boxes such as Time Capsule are actually complete computers, essentially mini servers, with file sharing etc, tuned for network / disk performance. Since they only have to do server type things, and not drive a GUI, their processors aren't the latest/greatest. Many boxes use PowerPC or older Intel processors, 500 to 800 MHz or so, sometimes a bit faster. I believe Apple's new TC has switched or is going to switch to an A4 or A5 -- Apple's implementation of an ARM Cortex, as used in iPad/iPhone. - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: daisy-chaining back up drive?
To not confuse you further, I’ll try and focus on the main topics ;-) Firewire was designed for connection to one computer only: it is not a network. Daisy-chaining means that you can connect a second harddisk, a scanner, camera, or other device (not computers) to the first one, for example if the computer has only one Firewire port, or simply for nicer cabling. If the harddisk should serve multiple computers, you need to use a network setup. Either the harddisk should have a LAN connection and the necessary logic built in, or you can connect the harddisk to one computer, then set up that computer to "share" the harddisk. That is something you can do with your Firewire drive: Connect it to the 10.4 Mac and set it up for sharing. Then you can connect to the harddisk over the network from the Mac running 9.2.2 by logging in to the 10.4 Mac. Why you can’t connect the other way around could have something to do with the different versions of Appletalk software in different OSes, but I don’t really know. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: daisy-chaining back up drive?
At 5:09 AM -0700 10/11/2011, Geke wrote: To not confuse you further, I'll try and focus on the main topics ;-) Firewire was designed for connection to one computer only: it is not a network. Incorrect. Firewire was designed to interconnect n devices. Said devices can be computers or peripherals or even network adapters. *Apple's SOFTWARE in the OS* does not support chains containing more than one computer, UNLESS you've enabled IP over Firewire, in which case it can be used as a computer to computer network interconnect with no other peripherals directly involved. Daisy-chaining means that you can connect a second harddisk, a scanner, camera, or other device (not computers) to the first one, for example if the computer has only one Firewire port, or simply for nicer cabling. Not just a "second". IEEE 1394, aka iLink, aka Firewire, actually a form of SCSI-3, supports up to 63 hot-pluggable devices per bus. And the cables can be up to 14' long. Why you can't connect the other way around could have something to do with the different versions of Appletalk software in different OSes, Not AppleTalk. AT is moot; it's just the transport layer, replaced by IP. The difficulty is the support for the older versions of AFP (Apple Filing Protocol) that Apple dropped as each new OS was released. This creates a very annoying incompatibility between Macs, that Apple never bothered to fix. - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: daisy-chaining back up drive?
On Oct 11, 2011, at 5:09 AM, Geke wrote: > To not confuse you further, I’ll try and focus on the main topics ;-) > > Firewire was designed for connection to one computer only: it is not a > network. Daisy-chaining means that you can connect a second harddisk, > a scanner, camera, or other device (not computers) to the first one, > for example if the computer has only one Firewire port, or simply for > nicer cabling. Incorrect. Firewire WAS designed for connection to many devices, including multiple computers, simultaneously. FW is used extensively in video work where many devices all share the connection. The Mac OS is NOT designed to share disks via a local peripheral interface. You can in fact connect multiple Macs together via FW as an IP network (I've done it). It's useful in cases where the Ethernet interfaces are limited to 100MBPS and you want to transfer data faster than that. But in this case you shouldn't have any drives connected to the FW connection. > > > That is something you can do with your Firewire drive: Connect it to > the 10.4 Mac and set it up for sharing. Then you can connect to the > harddisk over the network from the Mac running 9.2.2 by logging in to > the 10.4 Mac. > > Why you can’t connect the other way around could have something to do > with the different versions of Appletalk software in different OSes, > but I don’t really know. It's because OS 9.2.2 has an AppleShare over IP client but not server and OS 10.4 only supports AppleShare over IP, client and server. > Clark Martin Redwood City, CA, USA Macintosh / Internet Consulting "I'm a designated driver on the Information Super Highway" -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: daisy-chaining back up drive?
All right, guys, interesting! I didn't know all that! Still, for the original poster it's not relevant, and probably confusing. The bottom line for him doesn't change: he shouldn't be connecting two computers to one HD, and the best solution to use the drive from two computers is to connect it to the 10.4 one and share it, so the 9.2.2 one can mount it over the network. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: daisy-chaining back up drive?
Den Onsdag, 12/10 2011, 11:34, Geke skrev: > All right, guys, interesting! I didn't know all that! > > Still, for the original poster it's not relevant, and probably > confusing. > The bottom line for him doesn't change: he shouldn't be connecting two > computers to one HD, and the best solution to use the drive from two > computers is to connect it to the 10.4 one and share it, so the 9.2.2 > one can mount it over the network. > it was interesting I did get the point I'm a she I don't want to connect the drive to the 10.4 one - it does a fantastic job on the 9.2.2 one, with auto backup of all that's changed at shut down - with the software that came with the drive and, the 9.2.2 one is where the serious work is done and all my emails gets downloaded to the 10.4/5 ones is just for webmailing, casual gaming, playing music, banking and that sorts going to buy another one for the 10.4/5 ones, whenever I can afford one, and until then, try to be more efficient with the manual backups but thanks anyway - to all of you :-) /tina -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: daisy-chaining back up drive?
Il giorno 13-10-2011 3:26, t...@nehaia.dk ha scritto: > going to buy another one for the 10.4/5 ones, whenever I can afford one, > and until then, try to be more efficient with the manual backups Well, it's an external drive, so moving that for backing up the 10.4 Mac shouldn't be a big deal. Better yet, you could keep a Firewire cable connected to the 10.4 Mac (on one end) and close (but not connected) to the external HD. Then, when you need to backup the 10.4 system, you just switch off the OS9 Mac (or unmount+disconnect the HD), connect the cable coming from 10.4, and there you are. :-) It's a bit of juggling, bit it's almost like having it connected to both. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: daisy-chaining back up drive? Use Ethernet LAN
Maybe I don't know enough to recognize the problem, but I use one drive for multiple G4 computers running Mac OS 9.2.2 all the time. One G4 computer is used as a Server to which the drive is physically connected by firewire or USB. Then several G4 computers and multiple LaserWriter 16/600 printers are connected through Ethernet to the Server. The Server's File Sharing is turned on so all the other computers can communicate with the server and they use TCP/IP to communicate. All the computers can select whichever printer they want to use too. Thus not only can the Server access and use the drive on the server but the other computers can access and use that drive at the same time, they just can't access the same document at the same time but CAN access the same file folder at the same time so long as each opens different documents in the folder. Each computer has its own applications folder, but by keeping data files on the drive attached to the server whether they are generated by the server or one of the remote G4 computers, only that drive needs to be backed up to assure all the data from all the computers are backed up at the same time. You can even have the server's internal drive partitioned, which makes each partition function like a totally distinct drive. Thus one partition can be the one containing the server's system folder and the other partition can be used as a data drive. Then set the server to allow access to that partition being used as a data drive and all the other computers can access it to read and write documents to it. I seem to recall even using my MacBook Pro running OS 10.5.8 on the network to share the drive too. Mike Bauchan On Oct 9, 2011, at 11:59 AM, t...@nehaia.dk wrote: Den Søndag, 9/10 2011, 01:55, Clark Martin skrev: Attaching 2 or more computers to one drive won't physically hurt the firewire interface but it may corrupt the drive. Each computer will mount the drive and there is nothing to keep them from writing contradictory directory information to the disk. So don't do it. Clark Martin Redwood City, CA, USA Macintosh / Internet Consulting "I'm a designated driver on the Information Super Highway" too bad, sounded like such an exellent idea :-( well, what other ways to use the same back up drive for two puters exists then? tia /tina -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
