Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS
Although any other creator could create one, are they? --- In God we trust! - Original Message - From: "Yohandy" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 12:47 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS but why would the opportunity be lost? You do know thomas isn't the only audiogame developer. Any other dev could create a sidescroller. I'd be happy either way thomas wishes to go. I think it's about time he got a say in this and actually create something he'll enjoy. I was one of those who preordered Montezuma, and I'd be appreciative with a rock-tossing game if that's what thomas wished to make. He's certainly been through enough already. you guys gotta realize that everyone makes mistakes. Thomas made a huge mistake accepting responsibility for Montezuma. he knows it and we all know it. so just let the man do what he wants with the game and be happy with the results. - Original Message - From: "dark" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 6:35 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS > As I said in my post to Tom Bryan, I stil fail to see the connection > betwene complex features and ditching the side scrolling genre. > > personally, whild i'd enjoy an fps game as much as anyone, --- I'd be > sorry to see this oppertunity lost. > > Beware the grue! > > dark. > - Original Message - > From: "Bryan Peterson" > To: "Gamers Discussion list" > Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 9:29 PM > Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS > > >> Personally, while I do like the idea of more side scrollers in the AG >> market I like the direction MOTA has taken so far. If keeping that means >> converting it to an FPS I personally would say go for that. The way I see >> it it's everybody's fault for requesting all these non-80s feature >> additions so they should have to live with the consequences. Someone else >> can develop their classic 80s style side scroller at a later time since I >> daresay you've become more than a little burnt out on the genre yourself. >> Homer: Hey, uh, could you go across the street and get me a slice of >> pizza? >> Vender: No pizza. Only Khlav Kalash. >> - Original Message - >> From: "Thomas Ward" >> To: >> Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 4:03 PM >> Subject: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS >> >> >>> Hi everyone, >>> This has been something I've wanted to say for quite a while now, and I >>> think now is the time I need to say it. To get this out of the way as >>> your opinions, responses, etc will completely determine the future of >>> the game from here on out. This is extremely important, and I hope all >>> of you take this message very seriously. I hope you think about your >>> responses very carefully before responding as your input is very >>> important to me right now. >>> As most of you know James North was planning on releasing a remake of >>> the classic side-scroller "Montezuma's Revenge." He took several orders >>> for that game in December of 2004, but do to a variety of personal >>> issues he was unable to complete the game within the time specified. >>> Eventually, I took over development of the game in early 2006, and I >>> decided to rewrite the game in C# .NET. I was nearly finished with the >>> game in January of 2008, had already taken orders for the game myself, >>> when I was contacted privately regarding the game's copyright >>> infringement. As neither James or I had legally applied for permission >>> to make a modern remake of the game I was officially ordered to cease >>> and desist all development of the game. Rather than fight the cease and >>> desist order I complied, and began my own side-scroller called Mysteries >>> of the Ancients. It was initially intended to be a classic >>> side-scroller along the lines of Pitfall, Montezuma's Revenge, Mario >>> Brothers, and similar games. >>> The thing to keep in mind here is that those games lacked many of the >>> features modern FPS games have today. There was no such thing as >>> randomly placed items and monsters, you couldn't save your game and pick >>> up where you left off later, when you punched an enemy you didn't miss >>> unless you were too far away, etc. The main object of the game was to >>> beat the game and earn the highest score possible. For some of you >>> younger gamers it would b
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS
I hope I am not to late in responding to this topic as I just checked my email for the first time in several days. However, I would like to say that I personally would like a more modern type game. I hust like the modern style better and that is nothing against a side scroller since I remember playing Mario when I was younger and was a high enough partial to do so. I just like the chance to have a modern game, those are the ones that I want to play now and can't. Kellie and my lovable Lady J. Resident Adviser, Guide Dogs for the Blind Oregon campus www.guidedogs.com - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 3:03 PM Subject: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS Hi everyone, This has been something I've wanted to say for quite a while now, and I think now is the time I need to say it. To get this out of the way as your opinions, responses, etc will completely determine the future of the game from here on out. This is extremely important, and I hope all of you take this message very seriously. I hope you think about your responses very carefully before responding as your input is very important to me right now. As most of you know James North was planning on releasing a remake of the classic side-scroller "Montezuma's Revenge." He took several orders for that game in December of 2004, but do to a variety of personal issues he was unable to complete the game within the time specified. Eventually, I took over development of the game in early 2006, and I decided to rewrite the game in C# .NET. I was nearly finished with the game in January of 2008, had already taken orders for the game myself, when I was contacted privately regarding the game's copyright infringement. As neither James or I had legally applied for permission to make a modern remake of the game I was officially ordered to cease and desist all development of the game. Rather than fight the cease and desist order I complied, and began my own side-scroller called Mysteries of the Ancients. It was initially intended to be a classic side-scroller along the lines of Pitfall, Montezuma's Revenge, Mario Brothers, and similar games. The thing to keep in mind here is that those games lacked many of the features modern FPS games have today. There was no such thing as randomly placed items and monsters, you couldn't save your game and pick up where you left off later, when you punched an enemy you didn't miss unless you were too far away, etc. The main object of the game was to beat the game and earn the highest score possible. For some of you younger gamers it would be quite primitive compared to the Play Station and XBox games you are use too. It was a completely different generation of gaming. I realized back then that many of you may not be happy with a 1980's type of side-scroller. I asked many of you if you would be happy with a more modern FPS game instead. The answer i got back was a resounding "no!" A couple of you wrote me very passionate letters about how much you would like to be able to play a classic side-scroller like those that were out in the 1980's that you were never able to play. So I set out to do just that. However, what I had feared all along began to come true. Many of you began making requests that were completely contrary to the type of game that was being developed. You asked for random items and monsters. After some debate I decided to add that feature, and removed the scoring feature since it was no longer needed. Those of you who wanted the feature were happy to get it, but those who didn't began asking me for a way to turn it off. They wanted a classic side-scroller, and asked me to stop adding features like that. Since it was too much work to have it both ways I had to decide to leave the random items and monsters in since most of the people liked it that way. The thing is the suggestions and requests didn't stop there. Over the passed year I've been consistently asked to add features like you would typically find on more modern FPS type games. It isn't so much I am a posed to adding these kinds of features, but it is inconsistent with an 80's type side-scroller. As the game currently is it is neither a classic side-scroller, and it isn't a fully modern FPS game either. For that reason some people, including myself, are unhappy with the way the game is turning out. I would much prefer either a straight out classic side-scroller or a modern FPS game. At this point the game is neither one, and is a bit of a mix of both styles. That might not be bad, but over the passed few months I've grown to completely hate the game because it isn't the game I wanted to create. It is nothing like it. So here is the question. Do you guys want me to go back and make this game as a classic side-scroller, as was intended initially, without randomized monsters and items, no save game features, no modern FPS influences of any kind,
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS
Yohandi, you say "any developer could create a side scroller" as though there are a bunch of willing people ready to do just that. the truth is, games programming is time consuming and hard, and we have few people who can do it. this is why I'd hate to see the oppertunity Tom's created with his groundbreaking work on Mota be lost, sinse it's unlikely we'll see another one any time soon. I completely agree that Thomas is the ultimate authority to this, and what he says goes, however as I said in a previous E-mail, I don't want the recognition of what he's already done to be steamrollered by mobs of rabid people clammering for one change or another. If tom himself decides to change the game either way, - fair enough, and I'll be glad to play whatever appears, but before he goes to such drastic lengths, I'd just like to remind everyone of what a great game, and fantastic oppertunity we have here already, even when no changes are made. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS
Hi, Yes, but I really wouldn't like such a mod. Mysteries of the Ancients really isn't like Mario, and you would be hard pressed to come up with a soundpack that sounds as good as the game does now. shaun everiss wrote: well maybe after you have got that sorted with the standard game or whatever as an optional pack you could have an extra item to add that in. I think in 3d mode it would be quite a challenge, especially since all the arcade modes were quite nondescript. I actually at one stage planned to make the game like supermario since i have the nes file would require loads of work from my part but it would be interesting. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS
but why would the opportunity be lost? You do know thomas isn't the only audiogame developer. Any other dev could create a sidescroller. I'd be happy either way thomas wishes to go. I think it's about time he got a say in this and actually create something he'll enjoy. I was one of those who preordered Montezuma, and I'd be appreciative with a rock-tossing game if that's what thomas wished to make. He's certainly been through enough already. you guys gotta realize that everyone makes mistakes. Thomas made a huge mistake accepting responsibility for Montezuma. he knows it and we all know it. so just let the man do what he wants with the game and be happy with the results. - Original Message - From: "dark" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 6:35 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS As I said in my post to Tom Bryan, I stil fail to see the connection betwene complex features and ditching the side scrolling genre. personally, whild i'd enjoy an fps game as much as anyone, --- I'd be sorry to see this oppertunity lost. Beware the grue! dark. - Original Message - From: "Bryan Peterson" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 9:29 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS Personally, while I do like the idea of more side scrollers in the AG market I like the direction MOTA has taken so far. If keeping that means converting it to an FPS I personally would say go for that. The way I see it it's everybody's fault for requesting all these non-80s feature additions so they should have to live with the consequences. Someone else can develop their classic 80s style side scroller at a later time since I daresay you've become more than a little burnt out on the genre yourself. Homer: Hey, uh, could you go across the street and get me a slice of pizza? Vender: No pizza. Only Khlav Kalash. - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 4:03 PM Subject: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS Hi everyone, This has been something I've wanted to say for quite a while now, and I think now is the time I need to say it. To get this out of the way as your opinions, responses, etc will completely determine the future of the game from here on out. This is extremely important, and I hope all of you take this message very seriously. I hope you think about your responses very carefully before responding as your input is very important to me right now. As most of you know James North was planning on releasing a remake of the classic side-scroller "Montezuma's Revenge." He took several orders for that game in December of 2004, but do to a variety of personal issues he was unable to complete the game within the time specified. Eventually, I took over development of the game in early 2006, and I decided to rewrite the game in C# .NET. I was nearly finished with the game in January of 2008, had already taken orders for the game myself, when I was contacted privately regarding the game's copyright infringement. As neither James or I had legally applied for permission to make a modern remake of the game I was officially ordered to cease and desist all development of the game. Rather than fight the cease and desist order I complied, and began my own side-scroller called Mysteries of the Ancients. It was initially intended to be a classic side-scroller along the lines of Pitfall, Montezuma's Revenge, Mario Brothers, and similar games. The thing to keep in mind here is that those games lacked many of the features modern FPS games have today. There was no such thing as randomly placed items and monsters, you couldn't save your game and pick up where you left off later, when you punched an enemy you didn't miss unless you were too far away, etc. The main object of the game was to beat the game and earn the highest score possible. For some of you younger gamers it would be quite primitive compared to the Play Station and XBox games you are use too. It was a completely different generation of gaming. I realized back then that many of you may not be happy with a 1980's type of side-scroller. I asked many of you if you would be happy with a more modern FPS game instead. The answer i got back was a resounding "no!" A couple of you wrote me very passionate letters about how much you would like to be able to play a classic side-scroller like those that were out in the 1980's that you were never able to play. So I set out to do just that. However, what I had feared all along began to come true. Many of you began making requests that were completely contrary to the type of game that was being developed. You asked for random items and monsters. After some deba
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS
Well personally, speaking as someone who paid for the game, I paid for a side scroller. while I wouldn't be hugely upset to get an fps game with all the features, - I would be sad to lose the oppertunity to have the 2d genre explored in audio, also I'd be sad to see Tom's work on this project fail in a sense. Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: "Bryan Peterson" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 10:15 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS I think the issue here is that when most people who paid for the game did so, they were expecting to get a classic side scroller, no random monsters or items, no saving games, no nothing really, since classic side scrollers didn't feature all that. Thomas posed approximately this same question in January of 2008 and let's just say the response wasn't pretty. People kept demanding exactly what they paid for and criticizing Thomas for trying to exercise his own creativity to keep from burning out on the project, so much in fact that Thomas seemed on the verge of cobbling together James North's original code or as close to it as possible, releasing it and then ceasing development altogether. But he felt he had to give people something, even if it wasn't exactly what they were promised. I could of course be totally wrong about all this but this is my interpretation from all that I've observed. Homer: Hey, uh, could you go across the street and get me a slice of pizza? Vender: No pizza. Only Khlav Kalash. - Original Message - From: "Milos Przic" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 4:09 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS Hi Tom. I am not a programmer, at least I don't know much about making audio and video games. I say this because that can be a part of the answer to my question. Still, there is a thing that I don't understand in this situation. Why it would be the problem to make a game that is not a classic side-scroller but still make it modern way? Why you don't want it? What's the problem with it? Ok, you say requests, but you will always get a lot of requests no matter how the game is constructed. So why wouldn't you mix up things and make something original, something that is not neither a classic true side-scroller nor the fps? Regards, Milos Przic msn: milos.pr...@gmail.com skype: Milosh-hs - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 11:03 PM Subject: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS Hi everyone, This has been something I've wanted to say for quite a while now, and I think now is the time I need to say it. To get this out of the way as your opinions, responses, etc will completely determine the future of the game from here on out. This is extremely important, and I hope all of you take this message very seriously. I hope you think about your responses very carefully before responding as your input is very important to me right now. As most of you know James North was planning on releasing a remake of the classic side-scroller "Montezuma's Revenge." He took several orders for that game in December of 2004, but do to a variety of personal issues he was unable to complete the game within the time specified. Eventually, I took over development of the game in early 2006, and I decided to rewrite the game in C# .NET. I was nearly finished with the game in January of 2008, had already taken orders for the game myself, when I was contacted privately regarding the game's copyright infringement. As neither James or I had legally applied for permission to make a modern remake of the game I was officially ordered to cease and desist all development of the game. Rather than fight the cease and desist order I complied, and began my own side-scroller called Mysteries of the Ancients. It was initially intended to be a classic side-scroller along the lines of Pitfall, Montezuma's Revenge, Mario Brothers, and similar games. The thing to keep in mind here is that those games lacked many of the features modern FPS games have today. There was no such thing as randomly placed items and monsters, you couldn't save your game and pick up where you left off later, when you punched an enemy you didn't miss unless you were too far away, etc. The main object of the game was to beat the game and earn the highest score possible. For some of you younger gamers it would be quite primitive compared to the Play Station and XBox games you are use too. It was a completely different generation of gaming. I realized back then that many of you may not be happy with a 1980's type of side-scroller. I asked many of you if you would be happy with a more modern FPS game instead. The
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS
I'm pretty sure the question is one or the other. I don't think Thomas is willing to keep mixing things up like this anymore. I have a hunch that if we want challenge we're going to have to accept an FPS game. I for one am more than happy to do just that. This is the first game to actually challenge me practically since I discovered audio games and I'd hate to lose that because of a few people thinking FPS games are too hard. Homer: Hey, uh, could you go across the street and get me a slice of pizza? Vender: No pizza. Only Khlav Kalash. - Original Message - From: "peter Mahach" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 4:09 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS now this is an interesting idea! perhasps you could leave the walking as is but add aiming to make it more fps like? - Original Message - From: "Milos Przic" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 11:09 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS Hi Tom. I am not a programmer, at least I don't know much about making audio and video games. I say this because that can be a part of the answer to my question. Still, there is a thing that I don't understand in this situation. Why it would be the problem to make a game that is not a classic side-scroller but still make it modern way? Why you don't want it? What's the problem with it? Ok, you say requests, but you will always get a lot of requests no matter how the game is constructed. So why wouldn't you mix up things and make something original, something that is not neither a classic true side-scroller nor the fps? Regards, Milos Przic msn: milos.pr...@gmail.com skype: Milosh-hs - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 11:03 PM Subject: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS Hi everyone, This has been something I've wanted to say for quite a while now, and I think now is the time I need to say it. To get this out of the way as your opinions, responses, etc will completely determine the future of the game from here on out. This is extremely important, and I hope all of you take this message very seriously. I hope you think about your responses very carefully before responding as your input is very important to me right now. As most of you know James North was planning on releasing a remake of the classic side-scroller "Montezuma's Revenge." He took several orders for that game in December of 2004, but do to a variety of personal issues he was unable to complete the game within the time specified. Eventually, I took over development of the game in early 2006, and I decided to rewrite the game in C# .NET. I was nearly finished with the game in January of 2008, had already taken orders for the game myself, when I was contacted privately regarding the game's copyright infringement. As neither James or I had legally applied for permission to make a modern remake of the game I was officially ordered to cease and desist all development of the game. Rather than fight the cease and desist order I complied, and began my own side-scroller called Mysteries of the Ancients. It was initially intended to be a classic side-scroller along the lines of Pitfall, Montezuma's Revenge, Mario Brothers, and similar games. The thing to keep in mind here is that those games lacked many of the features modern FPS games have today. There was no such thing as randomly placed items and monsters, you couldn't save your game and pick up where you left off later, when you punched an enemy you didn't miss unless you were too far away, etc. The main object of the game was to beat the game and earn the highest score possible. For some of you younger gamers it would be quite primitive compared to the Play Station and XBox games you are use too. It was a completely different generation of gaming. I realized back then that many of you may not be happy with a 1980's type of side-scroller. I asked many of you if you would be happy with a more modern FPS game instead. The answer i got back was a resounding "no!" A couple of you wrote me very passionate letters about how much you would like to be able to play a classic side-scroller like those that were out in the 1980's that you were never able to play. So I set out to do just that. However, what I had feared all along began to come true. Many of you began making requests that were completely contrary to the type of game that was being developed. You asked for random items and monsters. After some debate I decided to add that feature, and removed the scoring feature since it was no longer needed. Those of you who wanted the feature were happy to get it, but those who didn't began asking me for a way to turn it off. The
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS
Hi Tom. Fair enough. my position is very similar regarding modern 3rd person or fps games, though in my case it was the games which became too complex for my sight to handle rather than my sight changing. Stil, I very much grew up playing modern side scrollers, in fact it's a style of games I stil! very much enjoy today, with remakes of Turrican and the like being produced for windows, and the evolving Mega man series on the Gba. It is rather sad though that these games are purely graphical and not accessible to anyone without at least a small amount of useable vision, this is why I'm so keen on something similar appearing in audio. Beware the grue! Drk. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS
well maybe after you have got that sorted with the standard game or whatever as an optional pack you could have an extra item to add that in. I think in 3d mode it would be quite a challenge, especially since all the arcade modes were quite nondescript. I actually at one stage planned to make the game like supermario since i have the nes file would require loads of work from my part but it would be interesting. At 03:12 p.m. 29/10/2009, you wrote: >Hi Shaun, >Oh, that would be a hoot. I don't think the people asking for a side-scroller >want to go to that extreme, but it would definitely be a blast from the past. > >shaun everiss wrote: >>hear is a semi wacky idea, have fps but have an optional sound pack to make >>it sound like one of those 80s arcade machines. >> > > >--- >Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org >If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. >You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at >http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. >All messages are archived and can be searched and read at >http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. >If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, >please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS
Hi, Scott said: Of course, I don't know whether refunds for the few who're too stubborn to embrace a good product are financially viable for you. My responce: It really is not a viable option for me. My wife and I are on a very tight budget right now, and to add to that we do plan to go on vacation this winter. So every penny we can save towards that end will be helpful. Refunding a handful of people their money isn't something I really want to do, nor could I do it if I wanted to. Scot said: As someone who's now feeling a tad guilty for harping on about realism and the like, I don't actually think I can vote, because I don't think this is our decision. My response: As it happens I am a huge fan of realism myself so I am certainly not blaming you for suggesting something that is of special interest to me personally. So there is no need to feel guilty for that. I do like realism and it never hurts to have it pointed out where that area can be improved. truthfully I'm on the side of an FPS game for that reason. The 2d level layout is a bit unrealistic, and I'd be in favor of 3d movement rather than only being able to move left, right, up, and down. It is a bit annoying to know the engine does have built in realistic 3d movement, but only being able to create this particular game with 2d movement only. For me it is kind of like owning an extremely fast sports car, but only being allowed to drive it in first gear. You lose out on the thrill of putting the hammer down and driving it at top speed. Sure some people would enjoy driving that car at any speed, but for the guy who owns it he at least wants to see what that car can really do. You know what I mean? In terms of gaming I've invested a lot of time and energy developing the Genesis Engine. there is a lot of features in this engine, but like the sports car I'm not really able to put them to use. Oh, it has created an exceptionally decent side-scroller, no doubt about that, but I know it could do better. Especially, if I could design more complex levels with all of the engines features instead of just some of them. Scott said: In all honesty, I think the best thing you can do right now is read what Dark is saying, take a step back from fixing hand to hand stuff and sleep on it for a day or two. The chap seriously has a point when he says that no other game exists with this old-school simple method of navigation, this amount of replay value, combined with these modern killer sounds and music. My responce: Thanks, Scott. I'm glad to hear it. Yu andDark have both given me a lot to think about. I really really appreciate your support and advice. I really do. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS
Hi Dark, Hmmm...I didn't know that. I never played any of the Turrican games, and it was around that time my vision was starting to get really bad. So after the early to mid 90's I pretty much stopped playing games. I played a few PC games like Tomb Raider, Jedi Knight, etc but my sight was so bad they were really difficult to play very well. Anyway, the point is I don't have much experience with the more modern side-scrollers so that is in part to blame for why I am saying side-scrollers didn' have this or that feature. Back when I still had full sight they didn't, and when they did support those features my vision was too bad to really enjoy those games. So I didn't really play them any more. dark wrote: Hello Tom. Once more, this is something which changed entirely as side scrollers evolved. the first turrican game for instance produced in 1990, had five worlds. While certain enemy types were recycled for the levels of one world, each level also had unique features as well, and of course each world had a completely unique enemy and trap set. The second turrican game released in 1991 had an even more unique set of settings for levels and their enemies. while some enemies, such as the generic walkers, would appear in multiple stages, others, right up until the last level, would be completely unique. Again, this was an evolution of the side scrolling genre from the days of the 80's onwards. Beware the Grue! dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS
Simply put...amen. -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Scott Chesworth Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 8:08 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS Hey Tom, The only way I can relate to your situation is to compare it to music, seeing as games are the thing you create and music is the thing I slave away for. I know all too well how it feels to have to wrap up a project that's turning out far different than you expected because of financial and sanity deadlines, not good. I also know what it feels like to have that slightly mixed up type product out there on sale that you're not happy with. I wasn't on the list or even playing accessible games much to see the drama unfold the last time this question was posed, and I also don't know enough about your financial situation to know whether this is viable, but the part where you said you'd grown to resent the game made me think "dude, turn this back into a game you're a fan of as a developer and a player. If it's truely fun to play, for every person who whinges that they want their money back someone else will surely try it like it and buy it". Of course, I don't know whether refunds for the few who're too stubborn to embrace a good product are financially viable for you. As someone who's now feeling a tad guilty for harping on about realism and the like, I don't actually think I can vote, because I don't think this is our decision. Even if you convert this into an FPS, there will still be the whingers who say it's too hard now, the winers who think it's too easy, blah blah blah. I can tell you that so long as the final product is satisfying to play in some way, I'll buy it, regardless of whether it's a side-scroller or an FPS, because I'm in the fortunate position of being able to get my head round both methods of navigation, and that's as deep as the divide goes in my mind, it's just a method of navigation. In all honesty, I think the best thing you can do right now is read what Dark is saying, take a step back from fixing hand to hand stuff and sleep on it for a day or two. The chap seriously has a point when he says that no other game exists with this old-school simple method of navigation, this amount of replay value, combined with these modern killer sounds and music. If you can take enough of a step back, hopefully you'll see that you have a unique and easily accessible product that in one way or another will appeal to many gamers across the board, and if games are anything like music then mass-appeal will sell no matter the genre. MOTA in it's current form would be the go-too game for those who are new to accessible gaming, those who've just lost their usable vision, those who want a quick blast of a game to play on the train that doesn't rely on intensive accurate listening as much as most FPS's would, all this is because of the side-scroller navigation. Similarly, the expert mode is ridiculously hard enough to grip the hardcore gamers for at least one full run through, the quality of sound and music won't disappoint that group, and sooner or later most of those newbies from the previous sentence will get to the point where they're playing on expert which gives the game a new lease of life for them. My point, though rather long, is that in it's current form it's a very cool and original product. Surely, that's something that you can be proud of as a developer, something you can remember how to enjoy as a player, and something that you won't have a problem selling. If Dark and myself and whoever else has jumped onboard with this train of thought while I've been typing this can get that across to you and you can actually manage to see the merits of MOTA in it's current form and put the frustrations of user feedback aside, then that'd be a better outcome than any vote. Youzer, bit longer than I intended... Scott On 10/29/09, matheus wrote: > thomas, > you're never going to make everyone happy with a game, and you are not > forced to add a feature just bekause someone requested it. the game is > really awesome now man, but you know what to do,you're the developer, so > you decide > if i were you, i whould continue with the game how it is, create the > other levels, and finish the product. if you're allays going to listen > to all the user comments, you'll never get a game finished bekause one > way or another. > > > -Mensagem original- > De: Thomas Ward > Para: Gamers Discussion list > Data: Quarta, 28 de Outubro de 2009 20:10 > Assunto: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS > > Hi Milos, > The problem is that I took orders for Montezuma's Revenge in Decem
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS
Hi Shaun, Oh, that would be a hoot. I don't think the people asking for a side-scroller want to go to that extreme, but it would definitely be a blast from the past. shaun everiss wrote: hear is a semi wacky idea, have fps but have an optional sound pack to make it sound like one of those 80s arcade machines. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS
Hey Tom, The only way I can relate to your situation is to compare it to music, seeing as games are the thing you create and music is the thing I slave away for. I know all too well how it feels to have to wrap up a project that's turning out far different than you expected because of financial and sanity deadlines, not good. I also know what it feels like to have that slightly mixed up type product out there on sale that you're not happy with. I wasn't on the list or even playing accessible games much to see the drama unfold the last time this question was posed, and I also don't know enough about your financial situation to know whether this is viable, but the part where you said you'd grown to resent the game made me think "dude, turn this back into a game you're a fan of as a developer and a player. If it's truely fun to play, for every person who whinges that they want their money back someone else will surely try it like it and buy it". Of course, I don't know whether refunds for the few who're too stubborn to embrace a good product are financially viable for you. As someone who's now feeling a tad guilty for harping on about realism and the like, I don't actually think I can vote, because I don't think this is our decision. Even if you convert this into an FPS, there will still be the whingers who say it's too hard now, the winers who think it's too easy, blah blah blah. I can tell you that so long as the final product is satisfying to play in some way, I'll buy it, regardless of whether it's a side-scroller or an FPS, because I'm in the fortunate position of being able to get my head round both methods of navigation, and that's as deep as the divide goes in my mind, it's just a method of navigation. In all honesty, I think the best thing you can do right now is read what Dark is saying, take a step back from fixing hand to hand stuff and sleep on it for a day or two. The chap seriously has a point when he says that no other game exists with this old-school simple method of navigation, this amount of replay value, combined with these modern killer sounds and music. If you can take enough of a step back, hopefully you'll see that you have a unique and easily accessible product that in one way or another will appeal to many gamers across the board, and if games are anything like music then mass-appeal will sell no matter the genre. MOTA in it's current form would be the go-too game for those who are new to accessible gaming, those who've just lost their usable vision, those who want a quick blast of a game to play on the train that doesn't rely on intensive accurate listening as much as most FPS's would, all this is because of the side-scroller navigation. Similarly, the expert mode is ridiculously hard enough to grip the hardcore gamers for at least one full run through, the quality of sound and music won't disappoint that group, and sooner or later most of those newbies from the previous sentence will get to the point where they're playing on expert which gives the game a new lease of life for them. My point, though rather long, is that in it's current form it's a very cool and original product. Surely, that's something that you can be proud of as a developer, something you can remember how to enjoy as a player, and something that you won't have a problem selling. If Dark and myself and whoever else has jumped onboard with this train of thought while I've been typing this can get that across to you and you can actually manage to see the merits of MOTA in it's current form and put the frustrations of user feedback aside, then that'd be a better outcome than any vote. Youzer, bit longer than I intended... Scott On 10/29/09, matheus wrote: > thomas, > you're never going to make everyone happy with a game, and you are not > forced to add a feature just bekause someone requested it. the game is > really awesome now man, but you know what to do,you're the developer, so > you decide > if i were you, i whould continue with the game how it is, create the > other levels, and finish the product. if you're allays going to listen > to all the user comments, you'll never get a game finished bekause one > way or another. > > > -Mensagem original- > De: Thomas Ward > Para: Gamers Discussion list > Data: Quarta, 28 de Outubro de 2009 20:10 > Assunto: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS > > Hi Milos, > The problem is that I took orders for Montezuma's Revenge in December of > 2007, and shortly afterwards I was ordered to stop developing and > selling the game by the game's copyright holders. Since that is the law > in the USA I had no choice but to comply with that court order, or I'd > have to get a lawyer a
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS
thomas, you're never going to make everyone happy with a game, and you are not forced to add a feature just bekause someone requested it. the game is really awesome now man, but you know what to do,you're the developer, so you decide if i were you, i whould continue with the game how it is, create the other levels, and finish the product. if you're allays going to listen to all the user comments, you'll never get a game finished bekause one way or another. -Mensagem original- De: Thomas Ward Para: Gamers Discussion list Data: Quarta, 28 de Outubro de 2009 20:10 Assunto: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS Hi Milos, The problem is that I took orders for Montezuma's Revenge in December of 2007, and shortly afterwards I was ordered to stop developing and selling the game by the game's copyright holders. Since that is the law in the USA I had no choice but to comply with that court order, or I'd have to get a lawyer and fight it out in court. Since I wasn't about to fight it out in court I complied. Now, I started work on Mysteries of the Ancients. In order to satisfy those customers who purchased the game I promised to deliver on a classic side-scroller, but that isn't what happened. I have dug myself into a hole by listening to people who want modern features So some people who purchased the game want their money back, because they aren't getting a classic side-scroller. Still others won't buy the game if I don't add some of these features. So I'm pretty much damned if I do and damned if I don't. As a result I no longer want anything to do with this game, because there is no unified group of customers. I basically have two groups each asking for two different styles of games. The best I could do was is sort of merge the two types together and come up with something that is a little of both. Still even that doesn't make everyone happy. So I'm trying to figure out if there is a consensus one way or another. Then, there is my own opinion and feelings to think about as well. Generally when I work on a personal project I like to create it the way I want to create it, but since I took orders for this game I feel I owe them the game they paid for. Yet since I can't give them Montezuma's Revenge exactly I've been trying to come up with a similar product with people nagging my heals that they don't want that kind of game. If it were totally up to me I'd do an FPS, but I have customers to listen to, and so I don't feel the decision is completely mine to make. So that's the problem. HTH --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS
Hi, Thanks, Bryan. That's almost exactly what happened. The outspoken group who wanted the classic side-scroller gave me considerable grief for exorsizing any kind of modern variation or modern style of game, and a few of them are still at it. The people who wanted a more modern game said so, but they got shouted down by some of the customers who wanted something like Monte. In the end I went with the side-scroller, but many people began coming forward that they want this or that. Features that are relatively modern, and were not present in the 1980's. Weather any of them knew it or not I got stuck right in the middle of these two groups, and I still don't know which is the larger group. Bryan Peterson wrote: I think the issue here is that when most people who paid for the game did so, they were expecting to get a classic side scroller, no random monsters or items, no saving games, no nothing really, since classic side scrollers didn't feature all that. Thomas posed approximately this same question in January of 2008 and let's just say the response wasn't pretty. People kept demanding exactly what they paid for and criticizing Thomas for trying to exercise his own creativity to keep from burning out on the project, so much in fact that Thomas seemed on the verge of cobbling together James North's original code or as close to it as possible, releasing it and then ceasing development altogether. But he felt he had to give people something, even if it wasn't exactly what they were promised. I could of course be totally wrong about all this but this is my interpretation from all that I've observed. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS
Hi Milos, The problem is that I took orders for Montezuma's Revenge in December of 2007, and shortly afterwards I was ordered to stop developing and selling the game by the game's copyright holders. Since that is the law in the USA I had no choice but to comply with that court order, or I'd have to get a lawyer and fight it out in court. Since I wasn't about to fight it out in court I complied. Now, I started work on Mysteries of the Ancients. In order to satisfy those customers who purchased the game I promised to deliver on a classic side-scroller, but that isn't what happened. I have dug myself into a hole by listening to people who want modern features So some people who purchased the game want their money back, because they aren't getting a classic side-scroller. Still others won't buy the game if I don't add some of these features. So I'm pretty much damned if I do and damned if I don't. As a result I no longer want anything to do with this game, because there is no unified group of customers. I basically have two groups each asking for two different styles of games. The best I could do was is sort of merge the two types together and come up with something that is a little of both. Still even that doesn't make everyone happy. So I'm trying to figure out if there is a consensus one way or another. Then, there is my own opinion and feelings to think about as well. Generally when I work on a personal project I like to create it the way I want to create it, but since I took orders for this game I feel I owe them the game they paid for. Yet since I can't give them Montezuma's Revenge exactly I've been trying to come up with a similar product with people nagging my heals that they don't want that kind of game. If it were totally up to me I'd do an FPS, but I have customers to listen to, and so I don't feel the decision is completely mine to make. So that's the problem. HTH --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS
Speaking as someone else who bought the game in 2007, while I wanted a side scroller, this was more because I wanted a side scroller than I wanted an 80's game. to me more complexity is just icing on the cake. Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: "Bryan Peterson" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 12:06 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS I'd rather not. I actually paid for the game in '07 when Thomas thought he'd be releasing it a few weeks later. Let someone else do the simple side scroller as far as I'm concerned. Might sound calous I know but I'm not entirely sure I care. It's our own fault Thomas is in this pickle now so we should live with it, whatever he ultimately decides. Homer: Hey, uh, could you go across the street and get me a slice of pizza? Vender: No pizza. Only Khlav Kalash. - Original Message - From: "shaun everiss" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 5:18 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS well you could always make the simple scroler for those that asked for one I don't mind waiting another 4 years for my fps game. At 12:54 p.m. 29/10/2009, you wrote: Hi Peter and all, I understand your problem/frustration with FPS style games. There are a lot of blind gamers that have no sense of direction when it comes to accessible FPS games. Though, there aren't that many truly accessible FPS games other than Sarah, Monkey Business, Shades of Doom, and a couple of others. However, most of the features you and others like about Mysteries of the Ancients like random monsters, random items, the ability to save games, etc aren't side-scroller features. Those kinds of features were introduced when the FPS games like Doom, Quake, Jedi Knight, Tomb Raider, etc started coming out for the sighted market. Before that most games were simple arcade games. So what I am asking you and is others is not for Mysteries of the Ancients as it is now, but to be written as it was intended to be. That is designed like a 1980's style side-scroller without all of the modern influences, or to design it like a modern FPS game similar to Tomb Raider and other more modern games. I am not sure if you were one of the people who preordered the game or not, but it might be helpful to see things from my perspective for a moment. When James North and I took preorders for Montezuma's Revenge it was with the understanding we would create and sell a classic side-scroller. Now, I have many people who want to hold me to that plan. However, there is this other group who demand modern features like the ability to save the game, randomize everything, include a targeting beep, whatever. As a result Mysteries of the Ancients is becoming more and more like an FPS game, and less and less like the game I actually sold to my original customers. So neither side is really getting what they wanted, and many of the customers feel they aren't getting what they paid for. So as a developer do i take out all the modern features, make it like the game I was going to sell, or do I just make something totally modern and different? As you can see it is a very big problem. The stress from this game is beginning to drive me crazy, because I don't really know which side to listen to. It is not a simple decision for me. peter Mahach wrote: hi thomas, here is my point of view. I have enough of fps games. with little to no navigation skill I mostly bump into walls, walk in circles... and get frustrated. I'm a big fan of side scrollers as that's something I can play... and I enjoyed mota how it is now. I'd not want to see another stupid game that I'll suck at... please, no! no wall bumping, no compass... please leave it as it is! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS
I'd rather not. I actually paid for the game in '07 when Thomas thought he'd be releasing it a few weeks later. Let someone else do the simple side scroller as far as I'm concerned. Might sound calous I know but I'm not entirely sure I care. It's our own fault Thomas is in this pickle now so we should live with it, whatever he ultimately decides. Homer: Hey, uh, could you go across the street and get me a slice of pizza? Vender: No pizza. Only Khlav Kalash. - Original Message - From: "shaun everiss" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 5:18 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS well you could always make the simple scroler for those that asked for one I don't mind waiting another 4 years for my fps game. At 12:54 p.m. 29/10/2009, you wrote: Hi Peter and all, I understand your problem/frustration with FPS style games. There are a lot of blind gamers that have no sense of direction when it comes to accessible FPS games. Though, there aren't that many truly accessible FPS games other than Sarah, Monkey Business, Shades of Doom, and a couple of others. However, most of the features you and others like about Mysteries of the Ancients like random monsters, random items, the ability to save games, etc aren't side-scroller features. Those kinds of features were introduced when the FPS games like Doom, Quake, Jedi Knight, Tomb Raider, etc started coming out for the sighted market. Before that most games were simple arcade games. So what I am asking you and is others is not for Mysteries of the Ancients as it is now, but to be written as it was intended to be. That is designed like a 1980's style side-scroller without all of the modern influences, or to design it like a modern FPS game similar to Tomb Raider and other more modern games. I am not sure if you were one of the people who preordered the game or not, but it might be helpful to see things from my perspective for a moment. When James North and I took preorders for Montezuma's Revenge it was with the understanding we would create and sell a classic side-scroller. Now, I have many people who want to hold me to that plan. However, there is this other group who demand modern features like the ability to save the game, randomize everything, include a targeting beep, whatever. As a result Mysteries of the Ancients is becoming more and more like an FPS game, and less and less like the game I actually sold to my original customers. So neither side is really getting what they wanted, and many of the customers feel they aren't getting what they paid for. So as a developer do i take out all the modern features, make it like the game I was going to sell, or do I just make something totally modern and different? As you can see it is a very big problem. The stress from this game is beginning to drive me crazy, because I don't really know which side to listen to. It is not a simple decision for me. peter Mahach wrote: hi thomas, here is my point of view. I have enough of fps games. with little to no navigation skill I mostly bump into walls, walk in circles... and get frustrated. I'm a big fan of side scrollers as that's something I can play... and I enjoyed mota how it is now. I'd not want to see another stupid game that I'll suck at... please, no! no wall bumping, no compass... please leave it as it is! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS
Hello Tom. Oncemore, this is something which changed entirely as side scrollers evolved. the first turrican game for instance produced in 1990, had five worlds. While certain enemy types were recycled for the levels of one world, each level also had unique features as well, and of course each world had a completely unique enemy and trap set. The second turrican game released in 1991 had an even more unique set of settings for levels and their enemies. while some enemies, such as the generic walkers, would appear in multiple stages, others, right up until the last level, would be completely unique. Again, this was an evolution of the side scrolling genre from the days of the 80's onwards. Beware the Grue! dark. - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 12:50 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS Hi Bryan and all, Another point most proponents of a side-scroller don't realize is that the majority of side-scrollers don't have much variation from level to level. In the classic Super Mario Brothers you had an overworld level, underworld level, a waterworld level, and the castle level. After a while the game just looped through variations of these levels with very miner changes thrown in here and there, but were basically the same levels over and over again. Montezuma's Revenge had the same problem. After a few levels you would get to play the same level again only with some variation like a burning rope instead of a regular rope, skulls were invincible, the rooms were darker, enemies were faster, whatever. Back then it didn't seam like a big deal if the game kept giving you the same levels over and over again because that is what we all were use to. Ok, now I am writing this side-scroller. I don't want to reuse the same levels over again so I have been trying to come up with 12 unique game levels. That's harder said than done since most side-scrollers start at the bottom lefthand corner and you must work your way to the righthand corner of the level. There are some exceptions to that rule, but let's not forget we are working with a 2d flat serfice which limits the number of rooms, secret areas, whatever we can add to that level. Bryan Peterson wrote: I'd say the same Sean. It doesn't sound as though leaving it as is and just finishing it that way if I read Thomas' message right. I like the more challenging game that MOTA has become, so if keeping that means we need to go FPS I'm all for it. One thing Side Scroller pushers aren't considering is that any one of our devs could, if they so chose, create the classic, true 80s style side scroller anytime. And since Thomas has spent three years and more on a project that wasn't really even his to begin with I feel he deserves some say in the matter. And since FPS style games are more to his taste I think that if enough people agree with him we should all live with the consequences. I for one don't want to see the classic side scroller if it means it'll go back to being static. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS
Hi Bryan and all, Another point most proponents of a side-scroller don't realize is that the majority of side-scrollers don't have much variation from level to level. In the classic Super Mario Brothers you had an overworld level, underworld level, a waterworld level, and the castle level. After a while the game just looped through variations of these levels with very miner changes thrown in here and there, but were basically the same levels over and over again. Montezuma's Revenge had the same problem. After a few levels you would get to play the same level again only with some variation like a burning rope instead of a regular rope, skulls were invincible, the rooms were darker, enemies were faster, whatever. Back then it didn't seam like a big deal if the game kept giving you the same levels over and over again because that is what we all were use to. Ok, now I am writing this side-scroller. I don't want to reuse the same levels over again so I have been trying to come up with 12 unique game levels. That's harder said than done since most side-scrollers start at the bottom lefthand corner and you must work your way to the righthand corner of the level. There are some exceptions to that rule, but let's not forget we are working with a 2d flat serfice which limits the number of rooms, secret areas, whatever we can add to that level. Bryan Peterson wrote: I'd say the same Sean. It doesn't sound as though leaving it as is and just finishing it that way if I read Thomas' message right. I like the more challenging game that MOTA has become, so if keeping that means we need to go FPS I'm all for it. One thing Side Scroller pushers aren't considering is that any one of our devs could, if they so chose, create the classic, true 80s style side scroller anytime. And since Thomas has spent three years and more on a project that wasn't really even his to begin with I feel he deserves some say in the matter. And since FPS style games are more to his taste I think that if enough people agree with him we should all live with the consequences. I for one don't want to see the classic side scroller if it means it'll go back to being static. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS
Hi Phil, Actually, the combat in Montezuma's Revenge was a bit strange even for games of that era. When you picked up a sword as soon as you got near to a skull or spider Panama Joe would automatically swing it. after the monster was killed the sword vanished from your inventory, and of course you had to find another one. If you didn't have a sword you had to jump over the monster. However, as best I can recall in games like Double Dragon, Legend of Kage, as long as you were close enough to an enemy you hit it. There are some exceptions like the bosses in Megaman that would evade attacks, and they were even invonerable to certain attacks. So having Angela miss isn't completely out of line, and nor was I upset by that feature request. It is more to do with I am getting requests both on and off list dealing with all kinds of features that aren't typical for a side-scroller. Features that would be better suited for an FPS game. If I don't add those feature requests it is completely possible those people may not buy the game. It dosn't have the features they want and so on. If I do add them I get nagged from the other side saying they baught Montezuma's Revenge, a classic side-scroller at least, and I'm not delivering the type of game I promised etc, etc, etc. All those nifty features most people like, would be willing to pay for, aren't what a few other people want. Phil Vlasak wrote: Hi Thomas, My opinion is that the game is great the way it is and there is no need to make drastic changes in it. There was never a blind friendly side scroller so I think having a swoosh sound when you miss, is consistent with the idea of making a pure visual game accessible. I didn't know that when you were in range of a creature in a side scroller that you hit 100 percent of the time. I am satisfied that if that is what happened in the original MR, then keep MOTA doing that. sincerely, Phil --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS
well you could always make the simple scroler for those that asked for one I don't mind waiting another 4 years for my fps game. At 12:54 p.m. 29/10/2009, you wrote: >Hi Peter and all, >I understand your problem/frustration with FPS style games. There are a lot of >blind gamers that have no sense of direction when it comes to accessible FPS >games. Though, there aren't that many truly accessible FPS games other than >Sarah, Monkey Business, Shades of Doom, and a couple of others. >However, most of the features you and others like about Mysteries of the >Ancients like random monsters, random items, the ability to save games, etc >aren't side-scroller features. Those kinds of features were introduced when >the FPS games like Doom, Quake, Jedi Knight, Tomb Raider, etc started coming >out for the sighted market. Before that most games were simple arcade games. >So what I am asking you and is others is not for Mysteries of the Ancients as >it is now, but to be written as it was intended to be. That is designed like a >1980's style side-scroller without all of the modern influences, or to design >it like a modern FPS game similar to Tomb Raider and other more modern games. >I am not sure if you were one of the people who preordered the game or not, >but it might be helpful to see things from my perspective for a moment. >When James North and I took preorders for Montezuma's Revenge it was with the >understanding we would create and sell a classic side-scroller. Now, I have >many people who want to hold me to that plan. However, there is this other >group who demand modern features like the ability to save the game, randomize >everything, include a targeting beep, whatever. As a result Mysteries of the >Ancients is becoming more and more like an FPS game, and less and less like >the game I actually sold to my original customers. So neither side is really >getting what they wanted, and many of the customers feel they aren't getting >what they paid for. So as a developer do i take out all the modern features, >make it like the game I was going to sell, or do I just make something totally >modern and different? >As you can see it is a very big problem. The stress from this game is >beginning to drive me crazy, because I don't really know which side to listen >to. It is not a simple decision for me. > >peter Mahach wrote: >>hi thomas, >>here is my point of view. >>I have enough of fps games. with little to no navigation skill I mostly bump >>into walls, walk in circles... and get frustrated. I'm a big fan of side >>scrollers as that's something I can play... and I enjoyed mota how it is now. >>I'd not want to see another stupid game that I'll suck at... please, no! no >>wall bumping, no compass... please leave it as it is! > > >--- >Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org >If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. >You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at >http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. >All messages are archived and can be searched and read at >http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. >If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, >please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS
Hi Casey, The Genesis Engine currently does not have a network play option, and nor am I going to take several weeks/months to research and design one from scratch. The Genesis Engine is fairly stable now, and it is primarily an FPS engine. Converting Mysteries of the Ancients to an FPS game is easy enough to do since the engine is designed that way, but adding network play is a major upgrade and undertaking. So any converting or upgrading I do will primarily be based on existing features and abilities of the engine. Smile. Casey Mathews wrote: I say Bring on the Modern FPS! I for one am tired of classic games. I want a modern game, that really rocks! Randomize everything, and I'd love a network play option! Modernize it all the way! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS
hear is a semi wacky idea, have fps but have an optional sound pack to make it sound like one of those 80s arcade machines. At 12:30 p.m. 29/10/2009, you wrote: >Hi Bryan, >I'd say burned out isn't the word for it. I've been working on Mysteries of >the Ancients for going on a year with no clear direction. I've been getting >suggestions from people who wanted a more classic game, like Montezuma's >Revenge, and then I've got all these gamers who grew up with FPS games and so >on that want more modern features. As a result I really have no idea what they >really want any more, and I don't think they do either. Weather they knew it >or not the game has gotten so close to an FPS game already it is easier to >just make one than it would be to go back and make a classic side-scroller. To >make a side-scroller, a classic one, I would basically have to start over from >scratch. > >Bryan Peterson wrote: >>Personally, while I do like the idea of more side scrollers in the AG market >>I like the direction MOTA has taken so far. If keeping that means converting >>it to an FPS I personally would say go for that. The way I see it it's >>everybody's fault for requesting all these non-80s feature additions so they >>should have to live with the consequences. Someone else can develop their >>classic 80s style side scroller at a later time since I daresay you've become >>more than a little burnt out on the genre yourself. > > >--- >Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org >If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. >You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at >http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. >All messages are archived and can be searched and read at >http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. >If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, >please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS
To be honest I'm not sure what the issue is here. In my experience a side scroller's main feature dealt with the placement of the camera. Certainly there were no save features for side scrollers in the eighties, but that's because we had wonderful things called passwords. Remember Mega Man and the silly placement of red and blue dots? Or American Gladiators and the random, easily hacked sequence of A's and B's? Let's not forget all the majorly complicated strings of letters and numbers like those found in Metroid or River City Ransom. Justin Bailey anyone? And random placement? Not every candle/torch/camp fire in Castlevania always had the same contents when you broke it open, and enemies were always dropping different items in Mega Man based on random chance. So what's the issue here? A true side scroller? You already have that. You press left to move left and right to move right. Beyond that everything else is just design. It could be never ending like pit fall. It could be fast-paced and criminally difficult like Contra. It could be all about scoring points, saving the princess, or taking down the Shredder. Personally I don't care about the money anymore. I bought the game five years ago along with Max Shrapnel and a three month subscription to the ESP server. Since then I haven't seen anything, and I've given up my $100.77 as water under the bridge and a lesson well learned. So for what it's worth, my comments aren't predicated on a need to feel vindicated. With that in mind, I just don't see what the issue is. So the game isn't Russian Attack. It's not Double Dragon either. Who cares? You have the major engine concepts in place and enough technical know-how to finish the project and write it off as an experience never to repeat. Do what you want with the game, get it off your desk, and stop trying to please everyone; you won't be able to. Ryan -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 6:30 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS Hi Bryan, I'd say burned out isn't the word for it. I've been working on Mysteries of the Ancients for going on a year with no clear direction. I've been getting suggestions from people who wanted a more classic game, like Montezuma's Revenge, and then I've got all these gamers who grew up with FPS games and so on that want more modern features. As a result I really have no idea what they really want any more, and I don't think they do either. Weather they knew it or not the game has gotten so close to an FPS game already it is easier to just make one than it would be to go back and make a classic side-scroller. To make a side-scroller, a classic one, I would basically have to start over from scratch. Bryan Peterson wrote: > Personally, while I do like the idea of more side scrollers in the AG > market I like the direction MOTA has taken so far. If keeping that > means converting it to an FPS I personally would say go for that. The > way I see it it's everybody's fault for requesting all these non-80s > feature additions so they should have to live with the consequences. > Someone else can develop their classic 80s style side scroller at a > later time since I daresay you've become more than a little burnt out > on the genre yourself. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS
Hi Shaun, And that is really the problem. As I just said to Peter I took preorders with the understanding I would be selling a classic side-scroller. Over time though do to endless user suggestions, requests, etc I have not stayed true to that plan. Mysteries of the Ancients sstarted out as a classic side-scroller, but has had many modern influences, additions, so that some of my customers are starting to complain it isn't the game they paid for. I know if I listen to them and take out the random items, random monsters, save game feature, put back the scoring feature, etc the game may not sell well. Far too many people want these features, but there is still the group who don't. So I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place. I am stuck between two completely different groups who want two very different games. The only way I can see to solve this problem is to force the users to vote on which way they want it. Do those who paid for the game really and truly want to stick with a classic side-scroller, or should I just ditch the entire side-scroller idea and swich to a true FPS game. Do I try and do the middle man thing by writing a side-scroller with lots of modern features? It isn't the sort of decision I can make on my own since I have several people waiting on this game on preorder status. HTH shaun everiss wrote: to be honest tom at first I loathed the side scroler idea mainly because of not winning in pipe2 and superliam. Now though I like it. I also like the modernised mixed element never really liked the standard side scroler, if you can have it the way it is now fine. If I was pushed into a decition I'd say fps style. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS
Actually Tom, Saving has been around for years! Even original Metroid and the Mega man series on the Nes had password systems which allowed saving of the games. Later, as battery backup was developed, actual saving occurred on the Snes, features prominantly in games like the later marrio or kirby offerings and Super Metroid. Similarly with random monsters and items. Mega man x6 featured fully random generating levels, and even ice climber on the nes (a classic side scroller if ever there was one), featured randomly appearing monsters who's frequency and speed varied according to level. Items were frequently randomized in series like Turrican as well so as to offer the player different weapons etc to deal with. Beware the grue! dark. - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 11:54 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS Hi Peter and all, I understand your problem/frustration with FPS style games. There are a lot of blind gamers that have no sense of direction when it comes to accessible FPS games. Though, there aren't that many truly accessible FPS games other than Sarah, Monkey Business, Shades of Doom, and a couple of others. However, most of the features you and others like about Mysteries of the Ancients like random monsters, random items, the ability to save games, etc aren't side-scroller features. Those kinds of features were introduced when the FPS games like Doom, Quake, Jedi Knight, Tomb Raider, etc started coming out for the sighted market. Before that most games were simple arcade games. So what I am asking you and is others is not for Mysteries of the Ancients as it is now, but to be written as it was intended to be. That is designed like a 1980's style side-scroller without all of the modern influences, or to design it like a modern FPS game similar to Tomb Raider and other more modern games. I am not sure if you were one of the people who preordered the game or not, but it might be helpful to see things from my perspective for a moment. When James North and I took preorders for Montezuma's Revenge it was with the understanding we would create and sell a classic side-scroller. Now, I have many people who want to hold me to that plan. However, there is this other group who demand modern features like the ability to save the game, randomize everything, include a targeting beep, whatever. As a result Mysteries of the Ancients is becoming more and more like an FPS game, and less and less like the game I actually sold to my original customers. So neither side is really getting what they wanted, and many of the customers feel they aren't getting what they paid for. So as a developer do i take out all the modern features, make it like the game I was going to sell, or do I just make something totally modern and different? As you can see it is a very big problem. The stress from this game is beginning to drive me crazy, because I don't really know which side to listen to. It is not a simple decision for me. peter Mahach wrote: hi thomas, here is my point of view. I have enough of fps games. with little to no navigation skill I mostly bump into walls, walk in circles... and get frustrated. I'm a big fan of side scrollers as that's something I can play... and I enjoyed mota how it is now. I'd not want to see another stupid game that I'll suck at... please, no! no wall bumping, no compass... please leave it as it is! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS
Exactly clement, i missed both the game series you mention too ;D. to take a basic and simple example of features, --- - there's aiming. In many 80's games there wasn't an aiming option, in fact in original montizumas return there weren't even useabnle weapons, just items which would instantly kill an enemy when you touched them rather like packman's power pills. As side scrollers evolved however, more aiming options came in. Super metroid for instance featured an eigh way aiming system, thus to kill things above you instead of jumping and firing you could aim at an upward angle, or even stand undernieth them and shoot skywards. the turrican games featured a surround laser which you could whirl around your character in 360 degrees, taking enemeis out at all angles. Super castlevania featured a whip, which you could swing or flick in eight directions, quickly or slowly, and flail around to hit things in betwene. There are just as many aiming options in side scrollers as in fps games. Thus, we can have a side scroller, and! have complex combat with aiming too. this is just one example, there are many more I could think of to cover hosts of in game features. Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: "clement chou" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 11:50 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS Hi Tom. Came in a bit late here, and I really don't know what my opinion is going to mean. But here it is. I'm young. I'm 17, and the first console I ever touched was a super nintendo.I haven't had the true xperience of playing sidescrollers from the 80s. The few I do play are mostly emulated. However, this is short so I'l make it that. I admire what you're doing, and I think the game s turning out to be a great one, despite the fact that you and some of s on the list might not like the direction. However, as Dark said, there are a lot of shoters that are also side-scrollers. Bionic Cmando, metal slug to name a couple. Bionic commando is similar o mota, at least it oked it wen I thought back. As to what I think, I personally like the bit of mix between hte tw styles. - Original Message - --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS
Hi Peter and all, I understand your problem/frustration with FPS style games. There are a lot of blind gamers that have no sense of direction when it comes to accessible FPS games. Though, there aren't that many truly accessible FPS games other than Sarah, Monkey Business, Shades of Doom, and a couple of others. However, most of the features you and others like about Mysteries of the Ancients like random monsters, random items, the ability to save games, etc aren't side-scroller features. Those kinds of features were introduced when the FPS games like Doom, Quake, Jedi Knight, Tomb Raider, etc started coming out for the sighted market. Before that most games were simple arcade games. So what I am asking you and is others is not for Mysteries of the Ancients as it is now, but to be written as it was intended to be. That is designed like a 1980's style side-scroller without all of the modern influences, or to design it like a modern FPS game similar to Tomb Raider and other more modern games. I am not sure if you were one of the people who preordered the game or not, but it might be helpful to see things from my perspective for a moment. When James North and I took preorders for Montezuma's Revenge it was with the understanding we would create and sell a classic side-scroller. Now, I have many people who want to hold me to that plan. However, there is this other group who demand modern features like the ability to save the game, randomize everything, include a targeting beep, whatever. As a result Mysteries of the Ancients is becoming more and more like an FPS game, and less and less like the game I actually sold to my original customers. So neither side is really getting what they wanted, and many of the customers feel they aren't getting what they paid for. So as a developer do i take out all the modern features, make it like the game I was going to sell, or do I just make something totally modern and different? As you can see it is a very big problem. The stress from this game is beginning to drive me crazy, because I don't really know which side to listen to. It is not a simple decision for me. peter Mahach wrote: hi thomas, here is my point of view. I have enough of fps games. with little to no navigation skill I mostly bump into walls, walk in circles... and get frustrated. I'm a big fan of side scrollers as that's something I can play... and I enjoyed mota how it is now. I'd not want to see another stupid game that I'll suck at... please, no! no wall bumping, no compass... please leave it as it is! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS
Hi Tom. Came in a bit late here, and I really don't know what my opinion is going to mean. But here it is. I'm young. I'm 17, and the first console I ever touched was a super nintendo.I haven't had the true xperience of playing sidescrollers from the 80s. The few I do play are mostly emulated. However, this is short so I'l make it that. I admire what you're doing, and I think the game s turning out to be a great one, despite the fact that you and some of s on the list might not like the direction. However, as Dark said, there are a lot of shoters that are also side-scrollers. Bionic Cmando, metal slug to name a couple. Bionic commando is similar o mota, at least it oked it wen I thought back. As to what I think, I personally like the bit of mix between hte tw styles. - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 2:03 PM Subject: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS Hi everyone, This has been something I've wanted to say for quite a while now, and I think now is the time I need to say it. To get this out of the way as your opinions, responses, etc will completely determine the future of the game from here on out. This is extremely important, and I hope all of you take this message very seriously. I hope you think about your responses very carefully before responding as your input is very important to me right now. As most of you know James North was planning on releasing a remake of the classic side-scroller "Montezuma's Revenge." He took several orders for that game in December of 2004, but do to a variety of personal issues he was unable to complete the game within the time specified. Eventually, I took over development of the game in early 2006, and I decided to rewrite the game in C# .NET. I was nearly finished with the game in January of 2008, had already taken orders for the game myself, when I was contacted privately regarding the game's copyright infringement. As neither James or I had legally applied for permission to make a modern remake of the game I was officially ordered to cease and desist all development of the game. Rather than fight the cease and desist order I complied, and began my own side-scroller called Mysteries of the Ancients. It was initially intended to be a classic side-scroller along the lines of Pitfall, Montezuma's Revenge, Mario Brothers, and similar games. The thing to keep in mind here is that those games lacked many of the features modern FPS games have today. There was no such thing as randomly placed items and monsters, you couldn't save your game and pick up where you left off later, when you punched an enemy you didn't miss unless you were too far away, etc. The main object of the game was to beat the game and earn the highest score possible. For some of you younger gamers it would be quite primitive compared to the Play Station and XBox games you are use too. It was a completely different generation of gaming. I realized back then that many of you may not be happy with a 1980's type of side-scroller. I asked many of you if you would be happy with a more modern FPS game instead. The answer i got back was a resounding "no!" A couple of you wrote me very passionate letters about how much you would like to be able to play a classic side-scroller like those that were out in the 1980's that you were never able to play. So I set out to do just that. However, what I had feared all along began to come true. Many of you began making requests that were completely contrary to the type of game that was being developed. You asked for random items and monsters. After some debate I decided to add that feature, and removed the scoring feature since it was no longer needed. Those of you who wanted the feature were happy to get it, but those who didn't began asking me for a way to turn it off. They wanted a classic side-scroller, and asked me to stop adding features like that. Since it was too much work to have it both ways I had to decide to leave the random items and monsters in since most of the people liked it that way. The thing is the suggestions and requests didn't stop there. Over the passed year I've been consistently asked to add features like you would typically find on more modern FPS type games. It isn't so much I am a posed to adding these kinds of features, but it is inconsistent with an 80's type side-scroller. As the game currently is it is neither a classic side-scroller, and it isn't a fully modern FPS game either. For that reason some people, including myself, are unhappy with the way the game is turning out. I would much prefer either a straight out classic side-scroller or a modern FPS game. At this point the game is neither one, and is a bit of a mix of both styles. That might not be bad, but over the passed few months I've grown to completely hate the game because it isn't the game I wanted to create. It is nothing like it. So here is the question.
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS
As I said in my post to Tom Bryan, I stil fail to see the connection betwene complex features and ditching the side scrolling genre. personally, whild i'd enjoy an fps game as much as anyone, --- I'd be sorry to see this oppertunity lost. Beware the grue! dark. - Original Message - From: "Bryan Peterson" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 9:29 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS Personally, while I do like the idea of more side scrollers in the AG market I like the direction MOTA has taken so far. If keeping that means converting it to an FPS I personally would say go for that. The way I see it it's everybody's fault for requesting all these non-80s feature additions so they should have to live with the consequences. Someone else can develop their classic 80s style side scroller at a later time since I daresay you've become more than a little burnt out on the genre yourself. Homer: Hey, uh, could you go across the street and get me a slice of pizza? Vender: No pizza. Only Khlav Kalash. - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 4:03 PM Subject: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS Hi everyone, This has been something I've wanted to say for quite a while now, and I think now is the time I need to say it. To get this out of the way as your opinions, responses, etc will completely determine the future of the game from here on out. This is extremely important, and I hope all of you take this message very seriously. I hope you think about your responses very carefully before responding as your input is very important to me right now. As most of you know James North was planning on releasing a remake of the classic side-scroller "Montezuma's Revenge." He took several orders for that game in December of 2004, but do to a variety of personal issues he was unable to complete the game within the time specified. Eventually, I took over development of the game in early 2006, and I decided to rewrite the game in C# .NET. I was nearly finished with the game in January of 2008, had already taken orders for the game myself, when I was contacted privately regarding the game's copyright infringement. As neither James or I had legally applied for permission to make a modern remake of the game I was officially ordered to cease and desist all development of the game. Rather than fight the cease and desist order I complied, and began my own side-scroller called Mysteries of the Ancients. It was initially intended to be a classic side-scroller along the lines of Pitfall, Montezuma's Revenge, Mario Brothers, and similar games. The thing to keep in mind here is that those games lacked many of the features modern FPS games have today. There was no such thing as randomly placed items and monsters, you couldn't save your game and pick up where you left off later, when you punched an enemy you didn't miss unless you were too far away, etc. The main object of the game was to beat the game and earn the highest score possible. For some of you younger gamers it would be quite primitive compared to the Play Station and XBox games you are use too. It was a completely different generation of gaming. I realized back then that many of you may not be happy with a 1980's type of side-scroller. I asked many of you if you would be happy with a more modern FPS game instead. The answer i got back was a resounding "no!" A couple of you wrote me very passionate letters about how much you would like to be able to play a classic side-scroller like those that were out in the 1980's that you were never able to play. So I set out to do just that. However, what I had feared all along began to come true. Many of you began making requests that were completely contrary to the type of game that was being developed. You asked for random items and monsters. After some debate I decided to add that feature, and removed the scoring feature since it was no longer needed. Those of you who wanted the feature were happy to get it, but those who didn't began asking me for a way to turn it off. They wanted a classic side-scroller, and asked me to stop adding features like that. Since it was too much work to have it both ways I had to decide to leave the random items and monsters in since most of the people liked it that way. The thing is the suggestions and requests didn't stop there. Over the passed year I've been consistently asked to add features like you would typically find on more modern FPS type games. It isn't so much I am a posed to adding these kinds of features, but it is inconsistent with an 80's type side-scroller. As the game currently is it is neither a classic side-scroller, and it isn't a fully modern FPS game either. For that
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS
Hi Thomas, Here is my opinion regarding this issue. As you well know, you cannot please everyone. So having said that, go for what you want. Take everyone's opinions, and form the best game you want. it is your blood, sweat, and tears bringing this game to life. it should be pleasurable, not unbearable. Whichever way you go, make it a labor of love, not agony. I am pretty sure that the end result will be very good, and to most gamers likings. Personally, I like the avenue the current version is going. Having had sight before, I like playing both side scrollers, and first person shooter games. The one thing none of them had was randomness. The best feature your game has. It immensely adds to the replay value of the game. This makes your game unique. it is not a standard side scroller, nor a 3-d first person shooter, but something different. Different is what most gamers on this list have been asking for. If I had to choose, go for the first person shooter style. 3-d if possible. Good luck on whatever you decide. Rich --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS
Hi Bryan, I'd say burned out isn't the word for it. I've been working on Mysteries of the Ancients for going on a year with no clear direction. I've been getting suggestions from people who wanted a more classic game, like Montezuma's Revenge, and then I've got all these gamers who grew up with FPS games and so on that want more modern features. As a result I really have no idea what they really want any more, and I don't think they do either. Weather they knew it or not the game has gotten so close to an FPS game already it is easier to just make one than it would be to go back and make a classic side-scroller. To make a side-scroller, a classic one, I would basically have to start over from scratch. Bryan Peterson wrote: Personally, while I do like the idea of more side scrollers in the AG market I like the direction MOTA has taken so far. If keeping that means converting it to an FPS I personally would say go for that. The way I see it it's everybody's fault for requesting all these non-80s feature additions so they should have to live with the consequences. Someone else can develop their classic 80s style side scroller at a later time since I daresay you've become more than a little burnt out on the genre yourself. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS
agree with you 100%! - Original Message - From: "Bryan Peterson" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 6:07 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS I'd say the same Sean. It doesn't sound as though leaving it as is and just finishing it that way if I read Thomas' message right. I like the more challenging game that MOTA has become, so if keeping that means we need to go FPS I'm all for it. One thing Side Scroller pushers aren't considering is that any one of our devs could, if they so chose, create the classic, true 80s style side scroller anytime. And since Thomas has spent three years and more on a project that wasn't really even his to begin with I feel he deserves some say in the matter. And since FPS style games are more to his taste I think that if enough people agree with him we should all live with the consequences. I for one don't want to see the classic side scroller if it means it'll go back to being static. Homer: Hey, uh, could you go across the street and get me a slice of pizza? Vender: No pizza. Only Khlav Kalash. - Original Message - From: "shaun everiss" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 3:43 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS to be honest tom at first I loathed the side scroler idea mainly because of not winning in pipe2 and superliam. Now though I like it. I also like the modernised mixed element never really liked the standard side scroler, if you can have it the way it is now fine. If I was pushed into a decition I'd say fps style. At 11:03 a.m. 29/10/2009, you wrote: Hi everyone, This has been something I've wanted to say for quite a while now, and I think now is the time I need to say it. To get this out of the way as your opinions, responses, etc will completely determine the future of the game from here on out. This is extremely important, and I hope all of you take this message very seriously. I hope you think about your responses very carefully before responding as your input is very important to me right now. As most of you know James North was planning on releasing a remake of the classic side-scroller "Montezuma's Revenge." He took several orders for that game in December of 2004, but do to a variety of personal issues he was unable to complete the game within the time specified. Eventually, I took over development of the game in early 2006, and I decided to rewrite the game in C# .NET. I was nearly finished with the game in January of 2008, had already taken orders for the game myself, when I was contacted privately regarding the game's copyright infringement. As neither James or I had legally applied for permission to make a modern remake of the game I was officially ordered to cease and desist all development of the game. Rather than fight the cease and desist order I complied, and began my own side-scroller called Mysteries of the Ancients. It was initially intended to be a classic side-scroller along the lines of Pitfall, Montezuma's Revenge, Mario Brothers, and similar games. The thing to keep in mind here is that those games lacked many of the features modern FPS games have today. There was no such thing as randomly placed items and monsters, you couldn't save your game and pick up where you left off later, when you punched an enemy you didn't miss unless you were too far away, etc. The main object of the game was to beat the game and earn the highest score possible. For some of you younger gamers it would be quite primitive compared to the Play Station and XBox games you are use too. It was a completely different generation of gaming. I realized back then that many of you may not be happy with a 1980's type of side-scroller. I asked many of you if you would be happy with a more modern FPS game instead. The answer i got back was a resounding "no!" A couple of you wrote me very passionate letters about how much you would like to be able to play a classic side-scroller like those that were out in the 1980's that you were never able to play. So I set out to do just that. However, what I had feared all along began to come true. Many of you began making requests that were completely contrary to the type of game that was being developed. You asked for random items and monsters. After some debate I decided to add that feature, and removed the scoring feature since it was no longer needed. Those of you who wanted the feature were happy to get it, but those who didn't began asking me for a way to turn it off. They wanted a classic side-scroller, and asked me to stop adding features like that. Since it was too much work to have it both ways I had to decide to leave the random items and monsters in since most of the people liked it that way. The thing is the
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS
now this is an interesting idea! perhasps you could leave the walking as is but add aiming to make it more fps like? - Original Message - From: "Milos Przic" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 11:09 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS Hi Tom. I am not a programmer, at least I don't know much about making audio and video games. I say this because that can be a part of the answer to my question. Still, there is a thing that I don't understand in this situation. Why it would be the problem to make a game that is not a classic side-scroller but still make it modern way? Why you don't want it? What's the problem with it? Ok, you say requests, but you will always get a lot of requests no matter how the game is constructed. So why wouldn't you mix up things and make something original, something that is not neither a classic true side-scroller nor the fps? Regards, Milos Przic msn: milos.pr...@gmail.com skype: Milosh-hs - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 11:03 PM Subject: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS Hi everyone, This has been something I've wanted to say for quite a while now, and I think now is the time I need to say it. To get this out of the way as your opinions, responses, etc will completely determine the future of the game from here on out. This is extremely important, and I hope all of you take this message very seriously. I hope you think about your responses very carefully before responding as your input is very important to me right now. As most of you know James North was planning on releasing a remake of the classic side-scroller "Montezuma's Revenge." He took several orders for that game in December of 2004, but do to a variety of personal issues he was unable to complete the game within the time specified. Eventually, I took over development of the game in early 2006, and I decided to rewrite the game in C# .NET. I was nearly finished with the game in January of 2008, had already taken orders for the game myself, when I was contacted privately regarding the game's copyright infringement. As neither James or I had legally applied for permission to make a modern remake of the game I was officially ordered to cease and desist all development of the game. Rather than fight the cease and desist order I complied, and began my own side-scroller called Mysteries of the Ancients. It was initially intended to be a classic side-scroller along the lines of Pitfall, Montezuma's Revenge, Mario Brothers, and similar games. The thing to keep in mind here is that those games lacked many of the features modern FPS games have today. There was no such thing as randomly placed items and monsters, you couldn't save your game and pick up where you left off later, when you punched an enemy you didn't miss unless you were too far away, etc. The main object of the game was to beat the game and earn the highest score possible. For some of you younger gamers it would be quite primitive compared to the Play Station and XBox games you are use too. It was a completely different generation of gaming. I realized back then that many of you may not be happy with a 1980's type of side-scroller. I asked many of you if you would be happy with a more modern FPS game instead. The answer i got back was a resounding "no!" A couple of you wrote me very passionate letters about how much you would like to be able to play a classic side-scroller like those that were out in the 1980's that you were never able to play. So I set out to do just that. However, what I had feared all along began to come true. Many of you began making requests that were completely contrary to the type of game that was being developed. You asked for random items and monsters. After some debate I decided to add that feature, and removed the scoring feature since it was no longer needed. Those of you who wanted the feature were happy to get it, but those who didn't began asking me for a way to turn it off. They wanted a classic side-scroller, and asked me to stop adding features like that. Since it was too much work to have it both ways I had to decide to leave the random items and monsters in since most of the people liked it that way. The thing is the suggestions and requests didn't stop there. Over the passed year I've been consistently asked to add features like you would typically find on more modern FPS type games. It isn't so much I am a posed to adding these kinds of features, but it is inconsistent with an 80's type side-scroller. As the game currently is it is neither a classic side-scroller, and it isn't a fully modern FPS game either. For that reason some people, including myself, are unhappy with the way the game is
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS
I think the issue here is that when most people who paid for the game did so, they were expecting to get a classic side scroller, no random monsters or items, no saving games, no nothing really, since classic side scrollers didn't feature all that. Thomas posed approximately this same question in January of 2008 and let's just say the response wasn't pretty. People kept demanding exactly what they paid for and criticizing Thomas for trying to exercise his own creativity to keep from burning out on the project, so much in fact that Thomas seemed on the verge of cobbling together James North's original code or as close to it as possible, releasing it and then ceasing development altogether. But he felt he had to give people something, even if it wasn't exactly what they were promised. I could of course be totally wrong about all this but this is my interpretation from all that I've observed. Homer: Hey, uh, could you go across the street and get me a slice of pizza? Vender: No pizza. Only Khlav Kalash. - Original Message - From: "Milos Przic" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 4:09 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS Hi Tom. I am not a programmer, at least I don't know much about making audio and video games. I say this because that can be a part of the answer to my question. Still, there is a thing that I don't understand in this situation. Why it would be the problem to make a game that is not a classic side-scroller but still make it modern way? Why you don't want it? What's the problem with it? Ok, you say requests, but you will always get a lot of requests no matter how the game is constructed. So why wouldn't you mix up things and make something original, something that is not neither a classic true side-scroller nor the fps? Regards, Milos Przic msn: milos.pr...@gmail.com skype: Milosh-hs - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 11:03 PM Subject: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS Hi everyone, This has been something I've wanted to say for quite a while now, and I think now is the time I need to say it. To get this out of the way as your opinions, responses, etc will completely determine the future of the game from here on out. This is extremely important, and I hope all of you take this message very seriously. I hope you think about your responses very carefully before responding as your input is very important to me right now. As most of you know James North was planning on releasing a remake of the classic side-scroller "Montezuma's Revenge." He took several orders for that game in December of 2004, but do to a variety of personal issues he was unable to complete the game within the time specified. Eventually, I took over development of the game in early 2006, and I decided to rewrite the game in C# .NET. I was nearly finished with the game in January of 2008, had already taken orders for the game myself, when I was contacted privately regarding the game's copyright infringement. As neither James or I had legally applied for permission to make a modern remake of the game I was officially ordered to cease and desist all development of the game. Rather than fight the cease and desist order I complied, and began my own side-scroller called Mysteries of the Ancients. It was initially intended to be a classic side-scroller along the lines of Pitfall, Montezuma's Revenge, Mario Brothers, and similar games. The thing to keep in mind here is that those games lacked many of the features modern FPS games have today. There was no such thing as randomly placed items and monsters, you couldn't save your game and pick up where you left off later, when you punched an enemy you didn't miss unless you were too far away, etc. The main object of the game was to beat the game and earn the highest score possible. For some of you younger gamers it would be quite primitive compared to the Play Station and XBox games you are use too. It was a completely different generation of gaming. I realized back then that many of you may not be happy with a 1980's type of side-scroller. I asked many of you if you would be happy with a more modern FPS game instead. The answer i got back was a resounding "no!" A couple of you wrote me very passionate letters about how much you would like to be able to play a classic side-scroller like those that were out in the 1980's that you were never able to play. So I set out to do just that. However, what I had feared all along began to come true. Many of you began making requests that were completely contrary to the type of game that was being developed. You asked for random items and monsters. After some debate I decided to add that feature, and removed the scoring
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS
Hi Tom. I am not a programmer, at least I don't know much about making audio and video games. I say this because that can be a part of the answer to my question. Still, there is a thing that I don't understand in this situation. Why it would be the problem to make a game that is not a classic side-scroller but still make it modern way? Why you don't want it? What's the problem with it? Ok, you say requests, but you will always get a lot of requests no matter how the game is constructed. So why wouldn't you mix up things and make something original, something that is not neither a classic true side-scroller nor the fps? Regards, Milos Przic msn: milos.pr...@gmail.com skype: Milosh-hs - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 11:03 PM Subject: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS Hi everyone, This has been something I've wanted to say for quite a while now, and I think now is the time I need to say it. To get this out of the way as your opinions, responses, etc will completely determine the future of the game from here on out. This is extremely important, and I hope all of you take this message very seriously. I hope you think about your responses very carefully before responding as your input is very important to me right now. As most of you know James North was planning on releasing a remake of the classic side-scroller "Montezuma's Revenge." He took several orders for that game in December of 2004, but do to a variety of personal issues he was unable to complete the game within the time specified. Eventually, I took over development of the game in early 2006, and I decided to rewrite the game in C# .NET. I was nearly finished with the game in January of 2008, had already taken orders for the game myself, when I was contacted privately regarding the game's copyright infringement. As neither James or I had legally applied for permission to make a modern remake of the game I was officially ordered to cease and desist all development of the game. Rather than fight the cease and desist order I complied, and began my own side-scroller called Mysteries of the Ancients. It was initially intended to be a classic side-scroller along the lines of Pitfall, Montezuma's Revenge, Mario Brothers, and similar games. The thing to keep in mind here is that those games lacked many of the features modern FPS games have today. There was no such thing as randomly placed items and monsters, you couldn't save your game and pick up where you left off later, when you punched an enemy you didn't miss unless you were too far away, etc. The main object of the game was to beat the game and earn the highest score possible. For some of you younger gamers it would be quite primitive compared to the Play Station and XBox games you are use too. It was a completely different generation of gaming. I realized back then that many of you may not be happy with a 1980's type of side-scroller. I asked many of you if you would be happy with a more modern FPS game instead. The answer i got back was a resounding "no!" A couple of you wrote me very passionate letters about how much you would like to be able to play a classic side-scroller like those that were out in the 1980's that you were never able to play. So I set out to do just that. However, what I had feared all along began to come true. Many of you began making requests that were completely contrary to the type of game that was being developed. You asked for random items and monsters. After some debate I decided to add that feature, and removed the scoring feature since it was no longer needed. Those of you who wanted the feature were happy to get it, but those who didn't began asking me for a way to turn it off. They wanted a classic side-scroller, and asked me to stop adding features like that. Since it was too much work to have it both ways I had to decide to leave the random items and monsters in since most of the people liked it that way. The thing is the suggestions and requests didn't stop there. Over the passed year I've been consistently asked to add features like you would typically find on more modern FPS type games. It isn't so much I am a posed to adding these kinds of features, but it is inconsistent with an 80's type side-scroller. As the game currently is it is neither a classic side-scroller, and it isn't a fully modern FPS game either. For that reason some people, including myself, are unhappy with the way the game is turning out. I would much prefer either a straight out classic side-scroller or a modern FPS game. At this point the game is neither one, and is a bit of a mix of both styles. That might not be bad, but over the passed few months I've grown to completely hate the game because it isn't the game I wanted to create. It is nothing like it. So here is the question. Do you guys want me to go back and make this game as a classic side-scroll
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS
I'd say the same Sean. It doesn't sound as though leaving it as is and just finishing it that way if I read Thomas' message right. I like the more challenging game that MOTA has become, so if keeping that means we need to go FPS I'm all for it. One thing Side Scroller pushers aren't considering is that any one of our devs could, if they so chose, create the classic, true 80s style side scroller anytime. And since Thomas has spent three years and more on a project that wasn't really even his to begin with I feel he deserves some say in the matter. And since FPS style games are more to his taste I think that if enough people agree with him we should all live with the consequences. I for one don't want to see the classic side scroller if it means it'll go back to being static. Homer: Hey, uh, could you go across the street and get me a slice of pizza? Vender: No pizza. Only Khlav Kalash. - Original Message - From: "shaun everiss" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 3:43 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS to be honest tom at first I loathed the side scroler idea mainly because of not winning in pipe2 and superliam. Now though I like it. I also like the modernised mixed element never really liked the standard side scroler, if you can have it the way it is now fine. If I was pushed into a decition I'd say fps style. At 11:03 a.m. 29/10/2009, you wrote: Hi everyone, This has been something I've wanted to say for quite a while now, and I think now is the time I need to say it. To get this out of the way as your opinions, responses, etc will completely determine the future of the game from here on out. This is extremely important, and I hope all of you take this message very seriously. I hope you think about your responses very carefully before responding as your input is very important to me right now. As most of you know James North was planning on releasing a remake of the classic side-scroller "Montezuma's Revenge." He took several orders for that game in December of 2004, but do to a variety of personal issues he was unable to complete the game within the time specified. Eventually, I took over development of the game in early 2006, and I decided to rewrite the game in C# .NET. I was nearly finished with the game in January of 2008, had already taken orders for the game myself, when I was contacted privately regarding the game's copyright infringement. As neither James or I had legally applied for permission to make a modern remake of the game I was officially ordered to cease and desist all development of the game. Rather than fight the cease and desist order I complied, and began my own side-scroller called Mysteries of the Ancients. It was initially intended to be a classic side-scroller along the lines of Pitfall, Montezuma's Revenge, Mario Brothers, and similar games. The thing to keep in mind here is that those games lacked many of the features modern FPS games have today. There was no such thing as randomly placed items and monsters, you couldn't save your game and pick up where you left off later, when you punched an enemy you didn't miss unless you were too far away, etc. The main object of the game was to beat the game and earn the highest score possible. For some of you younger gamers it would be quite primitive compared to the Play Station and XBox games you are use too. It was a completely different generation of gaming. I realized back then that many of you may not be happy with a 1980's type of side-scroller. I asked many of you if you would be happy with a more modern FPS game instead. The answer i got back was a resounding "no!" A couple of you wrote me very passionate letters about how much you would like to be able to play a classic side-scroller like those that were out in the 1980's that you were never able to play. So I set out to do just that. However, what I had feared all along began to come true. Many of you began making requests that were completely contrary to the type of game that was being developed. You asked for random items and monsters. After some debate I decided to add that feature, and removed the scoring feature since it was no longer needed. Those of you who wanted the feature were happy to get it, but those who didn't began asking me for a way to turn it off. They wanted a classic side-scroller, and asked me to stop adding features like that. Since it was too much work to have it both ways I had to decide to leave the random items and monsters in since most of the people liked it that way. The thing is the suggestions and requests didn't stop there. Over the passed year I've been consistently asked to add features like you would typically find on more modern FPS type games. It isn't so much I am a posed t
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS
Well it's pretty much a given that we won't get network play in the first release even if, as I hope he does Thomas decides to modernize the game. I agree. I'd love to see accessible versions of some of my favorite classic games, but that's where you learn a programming language and code it yourself. Thomas wants the game OUT OF HIS HANDS as soon as possible and I don't blame him one bit. We should be thankful he's doing this at all since he's had to sacrifice a great deal of time he could have devoted to his wife, son and outside interests. Since adding an option in the menus or doing the classic side scroller later aren't options I say FPS. We need to start accepting the consequences of our actions here. We requested all these features, so if that means we get an FPS instead of a side scroler we need to live with that. Homer: Hey, uh, could you go across the street and get me a slice of pizza? Vender: No pizza. Only Khlav Kalash. - Original Message - From: "Casey Mathews" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 3:52 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS I say Bring on the Modern FPS! I for one am tired of classic games. I want a modern game, that really rocks! Randomize everything, and I'd love a network play option! Modernize it all the way! -- From: "Thomas Ward" Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 6:03 PM To: Subject: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS Hi everyone, This has been something I've wanted to say for quite a while now, and I think now is the time I need to say it. To get this out of the way as your opinions, responses, etc will completely determine the future of the game from here on out. This is extremely important, and I hope all of you take this message very seriously. I hope you think about your responses very carefully before responding as your input is very important to me right now. As most of you know James North was planning on releasing a remake of the classic side-scroller "Montezuma's Revenge." He took several orders for that game in December of 2004, but do to a variety of personal issues he was unable to complete the game within the time specified. Eventually, I took over development of the game in early 2006, and I decided to rewrite the game in C# .NET. I was nearly finished with the game in January of 2008, had already taken orders for the game myself, when I was contacted privately regarding the game's copyright infringement. As neither James or I had legally applied for permission to make a modern remake of the game I was officially ordered to cease and desist all development of the game. Rather than fight the cease and desist order I complied, and began my own side-scroller called Mysteries of the Ancients. It was initially intended to be a classic side-scroller along the lines of Pitfall, Montezuma's Revenge, Mario Brothers, and similar games. The thing to keep in mind here is that those games lacked many of the features modern FPS games have today. There was no such thing as randomly placed items and monsters, you couldn't save your game and pick up where you left off later, when you punched an enemy you didn't miss unless you were too far away, etc. The main object of the game was to beat the game and earn the highest score possible. For some of you younger gamers it would be quite primitive compared to the Play Station and XBox games you are use too. It was a completely different generation of gaming. I realized back then that many of you may not be happy with a 1980's type of side-scroller. I asked many of you if you would be happy with a more modern FPS game instead. The answer i got back was a resounding "no!" A couple of you wrote me very passionate letters about how much you would like to be able to play a classic side-scroller like those that were out in the 1980's that you were never able to play. So I set out to do just that. However, what I had feared all along began to come true. Many of you began making requests that were completely contrary to the type of game that was being developed. You asked for random items and monsters. After some debate I decided to add that feature, and removed the scoring feature since it was no longer needed. Those of you who wanted the feature were happy to get it, but those who didn't began asking me for a way to turn it off. They wanted a classic side-scroller, and asked me to stop adding features like that. Since it was too much work to have it both ways I had to decide to leave the random items and monsters in since most of the people liked it that way. The thing is the suggestions and requests didn't stop there. Over the passed year I've been consistently asked to add features like you would typically find on
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS
Hi Thomas, My opinion is that the game is great the way it is and there is no need to make drastic changes in it. There was never a blind friendly side scroller so I think having a swoosh sound when you miss, is consistent with the idea of making a pure visual game accessible. I didn't know that when you were in range of a creature in a side scroller that you hit 100 percent of the time. I am satisfied that if that is what happened in the original MR, then keep MOTA doing that. sincerely, Phil --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS
The point is that if he sticks with the side scroller it sounds like we'll lose all the features that most people begged him to include since they're not standard to a true side scroller. And then people will start complaining that it's too easy again. And as I said in my first message I like the direction MOTA's taken. If keeping all that means converting it to an FPS I say go for it. The sooner we all make up our minds and stick to our decisions the sooner Thomas can get this game out the door and the sooner he can take the well-earned break he's been needing for some time now. The way I see it is it's everybody's fault we're in this situation now since people kept requesting nonstandard features as far as 80s side scrollers. So if Thomas were to decide to scrap the side scroller and go with the FPS, which in any case is the style he's more interested in making, we should just have to live with the decision. Nobody asked Thomas to take over the project after all, and nobody necessarily expected him to get slapped with a cease and desist right before he was about to release the game. I agree that side scrollers are a genre pretty much overlooked by most of the AG community and I'd love to see more, but I also agree that they have the potential to be too easy. Homer: Hey, uh, could you go across the street and get me a slice of pizza? Vender: No pizza. Only Khlav Kalash. - Original Message - From: "Mich" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 3:41 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS Hi Tom. As some one who grew up in the late 80's I was born in 1983. I remember playing the Nintendo with my sister and playing the Mario Brothers games with her along with duck hunt witch I could still play after I lost my sight. With that said I think it would be nice to have a side scroller game like you had planned from the get go. I like the idea of pozzing the game and then being able to go back to it later on. Well those are my thoughts regarding this. from Mich Verrier from New Liskeard Ontario Canada. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS
I say Bring on the Modern FPS! I for one am tired of classic games. I want a modern game, that really rocks! Randomize everything, and I'd love a network play option! Modernize it all the way! -- From: "Thomas Ward" Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 6:03 PM To: Subject: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS Hi everyone, This has been something I've wanted to say for quite a while now, and I think now is the time I need to say it. To get this out of the way as your opinions, responses, etc will completely determine the future of the game from here on out. This is extremely important, and I hope all of you take this message very seriously. I hope you think about your responses very carefully before responding as your input is very important to me right now. As most of you know James North was planning on releasing a remake of the classic side-scroller "Montezuma's Revenge." He took several orders for that game in December of 2004, but do to a variety of personal issues he was unable to complete the game within the time specified. Eventually, I took over development of the game in early 2006, and I decided to rewrite the game in C# .NET. I was nearly finished with the game in January of 2008, had already taken orders for the game myself, when I was contacted privately regarding the game's copyright infringement. As neither James or I had legally applied for permission to make a modern remake of the game I was officially ordered to cease and desist all development of the game. Rather than fight the cease and desist order I complied, and began my own side-scroller called Mysteries of the Ancients. It was initially intended to be a classic side-scroller along the lines of Pitfall, Montezuma's Revenge, Mario Brothers, and similar games. The thing to keep in mind here is that those games lacked many of the features modern FPS games have today. There was no such thing as randomly placed items and monsters, you couldn't save your game and pick up where you left off later, when you punched an enemy you didn't miss unless you were too far away, etc. The main object of the game was to beat the game and earn the highest score possible. For some of you younger gamers it would be quite primitive compared to the Play Station and XBox games you are use too. It was a completely different generation of gaming. I realized back then that many of you may not be happy with a 1980's type of side-scroller. I asked many of you if you would be happy with a more modern FPS game instead. The answer i got back was a resounding "no!" A couple of you wrote me very passionate letters about how much you would like to be able to play a classic side-scroller like those that were out in the 1980's that you were never able to play. So I set out to do just that. However, what I had feared all along began to come true. Many of you began making requests that were completely contrary to the type of game that was being developed. You asked for random items and monsters. After some debate I decided to add that feature, and removed the scoring feature since it was no longer needed. Those of you who wanted the feature were happy to get it, but those who didn't began asking me for a way to turn it off. They wanted a classic side-scroller, and asked me to stop adding features like that. Since it was too much work to have it both ways I had to decide to leave the random items and monsters in since most of the people liked it that way. The thing is the suggestions and requests didn't stop there. Over the passed year I've been consistently asked to add features like you would typically find on more modern FPS type games. It isn't so much I am a posed to adding these kinds of features, but it is inconsistent with an 80's type side-scroller. As the game currently is it is neither a classic side-scroller, and it isn't a fully modern FPS game either. For that reason some people, including myself, are unhappy with the way the game is turning out. I would much prefer either a straight out classic side-scroller or a modern FPS game. At this point the game is neither one, and is a bit of a mix of both styles. That might not be bad, but over the passed few months I've grown to completely hate the game because it isn't the game I wanted to create. It is nothing like it. So here is the question. Do you guys want me to go back and make this game as a classic side-scroller, as was intended initially, without randomized monsters and items, no save game features, no modern FPS influences of any kind, or would you rather I just completely ditch the entire classic side-scroller idea and create an actual modern FPS game with all the requests, suggestions, and modern features you want?Personally, as many of you consistently request more and more modern features from mainstream games you play I think the majority of you would be much happier with a straight ou
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS
well then, we're oposit sides here - Original Message - From: "shaun everiss" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 10:46 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS Hmmm piter I am the same way you are except its the traditional side scroler I suck at. At 10:30 a.m. 29/10/2009, you wrote: hi thomas, here is my point of view. I have enough of fps games. with little to no navigation skill I mostly bump into walls, walk in circles... and get frustrated. I'm a big fan of side scrollers as that's something I can play... and I enjoyed mota how it is now. I'd not want to see another stupid game that I'll suck at... please, no! no wall bumping, no compass... please leave it as it is! - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 11:03 PM Subject: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS Hi everyone, This has been something I've wanted to say for quite a while now, and I think now is the time I need to say it. To get this out of the way as your opinions, responses, etc will completely determine the future of the game from here on out. This is extremely important, and I hope all of you take this message very seriously. I hope you think about your responses very carefully before responding as your input is very important to me right now. As most of you know James North was planning on releasing a remake of the classic side-scroller "Montezuma's Revenge." He took several orders for that game in December of 2004, but do to a variety of personal issues he was unable to complete the game within the time specified. Eventually, I took over development of the game in early 2006, and I decided to rewrite the game in C# .NET. I was nearly finished with the game in January of 2008, had already taken orders for the game myself, when I was contacted privately regarding the game's copyright infringement. As neither James or I had legally applied for permission to make a modern remake of the game I was officially ordered to cease and desist all development of the game. Rather than fight the cease and desist order I complied, and began my own side-scroller called Mysteries of the Ancients. It was initially intended to be a classic side-scroller along the lines of Pitfall, Montezuma's Revenge, Mario Brothers, and similar game s. The thing to keep in mind here is that those games lacked many of the features modern FPS games have today. There was no such thing as randomly placed items and monsters, you couldn't save your game and pick up where you left off later, when you punched an enemy you didn't miss unless you were too far away, etc. The main object of the game was to beat the game and earn the highest score possible. For some of you younger gamers it would be quite primitive compared to the Play Station and XBox games you are use too. It was a completely different generation of gaming. I realized back then that many of you may not be happy with a 1980's type of side-scroller. I asked many of you if you would be happy with a more modern FPS game instead. The answer i got back was a resounding "no!" A couple of you wrote me very passionate letters about how much you would like to be able to play a classic side-scroller like those that were out in the 1980's that you were never able to play. So I set out to do just that. However, what I had feared all along began to come true. Many of you began making requests that were completely contrary to the type of game that was being developed. You asked for random items and monsters. After some debate I decided to add that feature, and removed the scoring feature since it was no longer needed. Those of you who wanted the feature were happy to get it, but those who didn't began asking me for a way to turn it off. They wanted a classic side-scroller, and asked me to stop adding features like that. Since it was too much work to have it both ways I had to decide to leave the random items and monsters in since most of the people liked it that way. The thing is the suggestions and requests didn't stop there. Over the passed year I've been consistently asked to add features like you would typically find on more modern FPS type games. It isn't so much I am a posed to adding these kinds of features, but it is inconsistent with an 80's type side-scroller. As the game currently is it is neither a classic side-scroller, and it isn't a fully modern FPS game either. For that reason some people, including myself, are unhappy with the way the game is turning out. I would much prefer either a straight out classic side-scroller or a modern FPS game. At this point the game is neither one, and is a bit of a mix of both styles. That might not be bad, but over the passed few months I've grown to completel
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS
fps games can be paused to. At 10:41 a.m. 29/10/2009, you wrote: >Hi Tom. As some one who grew up in the late 80's I was born in 1983. I >remember playing the Nintendo with my sister and playing the Mario >Brothers games with her along with duck hunt witch I could still play after I >lost my sight. With that said I think it would be nice to have a side scroller >game like you had planned from the get go. I like the idea of pozzing the game >and then being able to go back to it later on. Well those are my thoughts >regarding this. from Mich Verrier from New Liskeard Ontario Canada. > >--- >Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org >If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. >You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at >http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. >All messages are archived and can be searched and read at >http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. >If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, >please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS
Hmmm piter I am the same way you are except its the traditional side scroler I suck at. At 10:30 a.m. 29/10/2009, you wrote: >hi thomas, >here is my point of view. >I have enough of fps games. with little to no navigation skill I mostly bump >into walls, walk in circles... and get frustrated. I'm a big fan of side >scrollers as that's something I can play... and I enjoyed mota how it is now. >I'd not want to see another stupid game that I'll suck at... please, no! no >wall bumping, no compass... please leave it as it is! >- Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" >To: >Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 11:03 PM >Subject: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS > > >>Hi everyone, >>This has been something I've wanted to say for quite a while now, and I think >>now is the time I need to say it. To get this out of the way as your >>opinions, responses, etc will completely determine the future of the game >>from here on out. This is extremely important, and I hope all of you take >>this message very seriously. I hope you think about your responses very >>carefully before responding as your input is very important to me right now. >>As most of you know James North was planning on releasing a remake of the >>classic side-scroller "Montezuma's Revenge." He took several orders for that >>game in December of 2004, but do to a variety of personal issues he was >>unable to complete the game within the time specified. Eventually, I took >>over development of the game in early 2006, and I decided to rewrite the game >>in C# .NET. I was nearly finished with the game in January of 2008, had >>already taken orders for the game myself, when I was contacted privately >>regarding the game's copyright infringement. As neither James or I had >>legally applied for permission to make a modern remake of the game I was >>officially ordered to cease and desist all development of the game. Rather >>than fight the cease and desist order I complied, and began my own >>side-scroller called Mysteries of the Ancients. It was initially intended to >>be a classic side-scroller along the lines of Pitfall, Montezuma's Revenge, >>Mario Brothers, and similar game s. >>The thing to keep in mind here is that those games lacked many of the >>features modern FPS games have today. There was no such thing as randomly >>placed items and monsters, you couldn't save your game and pick up where you >>left off later, when you punched an enemy you didn't miss unless you were too >>far away, etc. The main object of the game was to beat the game and earn the >>highest score possible. For some of you younger gamers it would be quite >>primitive compared to the Play Station and XBox games you are use too. It was >>a completely different generation of gaming. >>I realized back then that many of you may not be happy with a 1980's type of >>side-scroller. I asked many of you if you would be happy with a more modern >>FPS game instead. The answer i got back was a resounding "no!" A couple of >>you wrote me very passionate letters about how much you would like to be able >>to play a classic side-scroller like those that were out in the 1980's that >>you were never able to play. So I set out to do just that. >>However, what I had feared all along began to come true. Many of you began >>making requests that were completely contrary to the type of game that was >>being developed. You asked for random items and monsters. After some debate I >>decided to add that feature, and removed the scoring feature since it was no >>longer needed. Those of you who wanted the feature were happy to get it, but >>those who didn't began asking me for a way to turn it off. They wanted a >>classic side-scroller, and asked me to stop adding features like that. Since >>it was too much work to have it both ways I had to decide to leave the random >>items and monsters in since most of the people liked it that way. >>The thing is the suggestions and requests didn't stop there. Over the passed >>year I've been consistently asked to add features like you would typically >>find on more modern FPS type games. It isn't so much I am a posed to adding >>these kinds of features, but it is inconsistent with an 80's type >>side-scroller. As the game currently is it is neither a classic >>side-scroller, and it isn't a fully modern FPS game either. For that reason >>some people, including myself, are unhappy with the way the game is turning >>out. I would much prefer either a straight out classic side-scroller or a >>modern FPS game. At this point the game is neither one, and is a bit of a mix >>of both styles. That might not be bad, but over the passed few months I've >>grown to completely hate the game because it isn't the game I wanted to >>create. It is nothing like it. >>So here is the question. Do you guys want me to go back and make this game as >>a classic side-scroller, as was intended initially, without randomized >>monsters and
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS
to be honest tom at first I loathed the side scroler idea mainly because of not winning in pipe2 and superliam. Now though I like it. I also like the modernised mixed element never really liked the standard side scroler, if you can have it the way it is now fine. If I was pushed into a decition I'd say fps style. At 11:03 a.m. 29/10/2009, you wrote: >Hi everyone, >This has been something I've wanted to say for quite a while now, and I think >now is the time I need to say it. To get this out of the way as your opinions, >responses, etc will completely determine the future of the game from here on >out. This is extremely important, and I hope all of you take this message very >seriously. I hope you think about your responses very carefully before >responding as your input is very important to me right now. >As most of you know James North was planning on releasing a remake of the >classic side-scroller "Montezuma's Revenge." He took several orders for that >game in December of 2004, but do to a variety of personal issues he was unable >to complete the game within the time specified. Eventually, I took over >development of the game in early 2006, and I decided to rewrite the game in C# >.NET. I was nearly finished with the game in January of 2008, had already >taken orders for the game myself, >when I was contacted privately regarding the game's copyright infringement. As >neither James or I had legally applied for permission to make a modern remake >of the game I was officially ordered to cease and desist all development of >the game. Rather than fight the cease and desist order I complied, and began >my own side-scroller called Mysteries of the Ancients. It was initially >intended to be a classic side-scroller along the lines of Pitfall, Montezuma's >Revenge, Mario Brothers, and similar games. >The thing to keep in mind here is that those games lacked many of the features >modern FPS games have today. There was no such thing as randomly placed items >and monsters, you couldn't save your game and pick up where you left off >later, when you punched an enemy you didn't miss unless you were too far away, >etc. The main object of the game was to beat the game and earn the highest >score possible. For some of you younger gamers it would be quite primitive >compared to the Play Station and XBox games you are use too. It was a >completely different generation of gaming. >I realized back then that many of you may not be happy with a 1980's type of >side-scroller. I asked many of you if you would be happy with a more modern >FPS game instead. The answer i got back was a resounding "no!" A couple of you >wrote me very passionate letters about how much you would like to be able to >play a classic side-scroller like those that were out in the 1980's that you >were never able to play. So I set out to do just that. >However, what I had feared all along began to come true. Many of you began >making requests that were completely contrary to the type of game that was >being developed. You asked for random items and monsters. After some debate I >decided to add that feature, and removed the scoring feature since it was no >longer needed. Those of you who wanted the feature were happy to get it, but >those who didn't began asking me for a way to turn it off. They wanted a >classic side-scroller, and asked me to stop adding features like that. Since >it was too much work to have it both ways I had to decide to leave the random >items and monsters in since most of the people liked it that way. >The thing is the suggestions and requests didn't stop there. Over the passed >year I've been consistently asked to add features like you would typically >find on more modern FPS type games. It isn't so much I am a posed to adding >these kinds of features, but it is inconsistent with an 80's type >side-scroller. As the game currently is it is neither a classic side-scroller, >and it isn't a fully modern FPS game either. For that reason some people, >including myself, are unhappy with the way the game is turning out. I would >much prefer either a straight out classic side-scroller or a modern FPS game. >At this point the game is neither one, and is a bit of a mix of both styles. >That might not be bad, but over the passed few months I've grown to completely >hate the game because it isn't the game I wanted to create. It is nothing like >it. >So here is the question. Do you guys want me to go back and make this game as >a classic side-scroller, as was intended initially, without randomized >monsters and items, no save game features, no modern FPS influences of any >kind, or would you rather I just completely ditch the entire classic >side-scroller idea and create an actual modern FPS game with all the requests, >suggestions, and modern features you want?Personally, as many of you >consistently request more and more modern features from mainstream games you >play I think the majori
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS
Hi Tom. As some one who grew up in the late 80's I was born in 1983. I remember playing the Nintendo with my sister and playing the Mario Brothers games with her along with duck hunt witch I could still play after I lost my sight. With that said I think it would be nice to have a side scroller game like you had planned from the get go. I like the idea of pozzing the game and then being able to go back to it later on. Well those are my thoughts regarding this. from Mich Verrier from New Liskeard Ontario Canada. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS
hi thomas, here is my point of view. I have enough of fps games. with little to no navigation skill I mostly bump into walls, walk in circles... and get frustrated. I'm a big fan of side scrollers as that's something I can play... and I enjoyed mota how it is now. I'd not want to see another stupid game that I'll suck at... please, no! no wall bumping, no compass... please leave it as it is! - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 11:03 PM Subject: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS Hi everyone, This has been something I've wanted to say for quite a while now, and I think now is the time I need to say it. To get this out of the way as your opinions, responses, etc will completely determine the future of the game from here on out. This is extremely important, and I hope all of you take this message very seriously. I hope you think about your responses very carefully before responding as your input is very important to me right now. As most of you know James North was planning on releasing a remake of the classic side-scroller "Montezuma's Revenge." He took several orders for that game in December of 2004, but do to a variety of personal issues he was unable to complete the game within the time specified. Eventually, I took over development of the game in early 2006, and I decided to rewrite the game in C# .NET. I was nearly finished with the game in January of 2008, had already taken orders for the game myself, when I was contacted privately regarding the game's copyright infringement. As neither James or I had legally applied for permission to make a modern remake of the game I was officially ordered to cease and desist all development of the game. Rather than fight the cease and desist order I complied, and began my own side-scroller called Mysteries of the Ancients. It was initially intended to be a classic side-scroller along the lines of Pitfall, Montezuma's Revenge, Mario Brothers, and similar games. The thing to keep in mind here is that those games lacked many of the features modern FPS games have today. There was no such thing as randomly placed items and monsters, you couldn't save your game and pick up where you left off later, when you punched an enemy you didn't miss unless you were too far away, etc. The main object of the game was to beat the game and earn the highest score possible. For some of you younger gamers it would be quite primitive compared to the Play Station and XBox games you are use too. It was a completely different generation of gaming. I realized back then that many of you may not be happy with a 1980's type of side-scroller. I asked many of you if you would be happy with a more modern FPS game instead. The answer i got back was a resounding "no!" A couple of you wrote me very passionate letters about how much you would like to be able to play a classic side-scroller like those that were out in the 1980's that you were never able to play. So I set out to do just that. However, what I had feared all along began to come true. Many of you began making requests that were completely contrary to the type of game that was being developed. You asked for random items and monsters. After some debate I decided to add that feature, and removed the scoring feature since it was no longer needed. Those of you who wanted the feature were happy to get it, but those who didn't began asking me for a way to turn it off. They wanted a classic side-scroller, and asked me to stop adding features like that. Since it was too much work to have it both ways I had to decide to leave the random items and monsters in since most of the people liked it that way. The thing is the suggestions and requests didn't stop there. Over the passed year I've been consistently asked to add features like you would typically find on more modern FPS type games. It isn't so much I am a posed to adding these kinds of features, but it is inconsistent with an 80's type side-scroller. As the game currently is it is neither a classic side-scroller, and it isn't a fully modern FPS game either. For that reason some people, including myself, are unhappy with the way the game is turning out. I would much prefer either a straight out classic side-scroller or a modern FPS game. At this point the game is neither one, and is a bit of a mix of both styles. That might not be bad, but over the passed few months I've grown to completely hate the game because it isn't the game I wanted to create. It is nothing like it. So here is the question. Do you guys want me to go back and make this game as a classic side-scroller, as was intended initially, without randomized monsters and items, no save game features, no modern FPS influences of any kind, or would you rather I just completely ditch the entire classic side-scroller idea and create an actual modern FPS game with all the requests, suggestions, and modern features you
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS
Personally, while I do like the idea of more side scrollers in the AG market I like the direction MOTA has taken so far. If keeping that means converting it to an FPS I personally would say go for that. The way I see it it's everybody's fault for requesting all these non-80s feature additions so they should have to live with the consequences. Someone else can develop their classic 80s style side scroller at a later time since I daresay you've become more than a little burnt out on the genre yourself. Homer: Hey, uh, could you go across the street and get me a slice of pizza? Vender: No pizza. Only Khlav Kalash. - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 4:03 PM Subject: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS Hi everyone, This has been something I've wanted to say for quite a while now, and I think now is the time I need to say it. To get this out of the way as your opinions, responses, etc will completely determine the future of the game from here on out. This is extremely important, and I hope all of you take this message very seriously. I hope you think about your responses very carefully before responding as your input is very important to me right now. As most of you know James North was planning on releasing a remake of the classic side-scroller "Montezuma's Revenge." He took several orders for that game in December of 2004, but do to a variety of personal issues he was unable to complete the game within the time specified. Eventually, I took over development of the game in early 2006, and I decided to rewrite the game in C# .NET. I was nearly finished with the game in January of 2008, had already taken orders for the game myself, when I was contacted privately regarding the game's copyright infringement. As neither James or I had legally applied for permission to make a modern remake of the game I was officially ordered to cease and desist all development of the game. Rather than fight the cease and desist order I complied, and began my own side-scroller called Mysteries of the Ancients. It was initially intended to be a classic side-scroller along the lines of Pitfall, Montezuma's Revenge, Mario Brothers, and similar games. The thing to keep in mind here is that those games lacked many of the features modern FPS games have today. There was no such thing as randomly placed items and monsters, you couldn't save your game and pick up where you left off later, when you punched an enemy you didn't miss unless you were too far away, etc. The main object of the game was to beat the game and earn the highest score possible. For some of you younger gamers it would be quite primitive compared to the Play Station and XBox games you are use too. It was a completely different generation of gaming. I realized back then that many of you may not be happy with a 1980's type of side-scroller. I asked many of you if you would be happy with a more modern FPS game instead. The answer i got back was a resounding "no!" A couple of you wrote me very passionate letters about how much you would like to be able to play a classic side-scroller like those that were out in the 1980's that you were never able to play. So I set out to do just that. However, what I had feared all along began to come true. Many of you began making requests that were completely contrary to the type of game that was being developed. You asked for random items and monsters. After some debate I decided to add that feature, and removed the scoring feature since it was no longer needed. Those of you who wanted the feature were happy to get it, but those who didn't began asking me for a way to turn it off. They wanted a classic side-scroller, and asked me to stop adding features like that. Since it was too much work to have it both ways I had to decide to leave the random items and monsters in since most of the people liked it that way. The thing is the suggestions and requests didn't stop there. Over the passed year I've been consistently asked to add features like you would typically find on more modern FPS type games. It isn't so much I am a posed to adding these kinds of features, but it is inconsistent with an 80's type side-scroller. As the game currently is it is neither a classic side-scroller, and it isn't a fully modern FPS game either. For that reason some people, including myself, are unhappy with the way the game is turning out. I would much prefer either a straight out classic side-scroller or a modern FPS game. At this point the game is neither one, and is a bit of a mix of both styles. That might not be bad, but over the passed few months I've grown to completely hate the game because it isn't the game I wanted to create. It is nothing like it. So here is the question. Do you guys want me to go back and make this game as a classic side-scroller, as was intended initially, without randomized monsters and items, no save game featu
