gEDA-user: board's setup and output
Hello guys, I've finished a board I've been working on, though I have a question about both, it's proper setup and output. Since I'm doing a one side board, I've just left the solder layer (where my routes live), and the ground layer, which is where I have the ground plane, both of them on the same group (layout's solder side). Then, I haven't got nothing on the component side (not even a compoment layer as such), still I can see the layout as I guess I should by using the tab key (the solder and ground plane in one, and just the components' silkscreen on the other). And so at output time I'd expect to see a mirrored solder layer (one side), and the mirrored component layer (just the silkscreen) but I never get to see the mirrored silkscreen on my ps output so tonner transfer would leave things as I'd like to. While I can achieve this by tweaking ps output options, I'd appreciate if someone could tell me what I'm doing wrong, or missunderstanding in here. I used to have the compoment layer, but since it was empty I just deleted it. Now in the layers' group window I have solder and ground on group one (solder side), and nothing on group two (component side). Many thanks. Eduardo, ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: board's setup and output
I used to have the compoment layer, but since it was empty I just deleted it. Now in the layers' group window I have solder and ground on group one (solder side), and nothing on group two (component side). It's usually better to leave the component layer there, but just disable (not delete) it if you need to use the autorouter. Your physical board *has* a component side, you just don't put copper on it. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: pcb, howto partition power planes?
On Tue, 2008-10-28 at 20:47 -0400, DJ Delorie wrote: Joerg [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: By now I'd say Prehistoric Digital Assistant. The only guy I know who actually still uses one is our pastor. I have one I use every day, but it's in my watch. So that watch isn't on a wrist band it is on an adjustable crane hook. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: pcb, howto partition power planes?
I have one I use every day, but it's in my watch. So that watch isn't on a wrist band it is on an adjustable crane hook. Heh, I suppose. FYI it's a Timex Ironman USB. Very useful watch. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: pcb, howto partition power planes?
DJ Delorie wrote: I have one I use every day, but it's in my watch. So that watch isn't on a wrist band it is on an adjustable crane hook. Heh, I suppose. FYI it's a Timex Ironman USB. Very useful watch. But can you talk to it with Linux? Eric (who still uses a VR3 - mostly to play DJ's Ace of Penguins Freecell) ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: pcb, howto partition power planes?
But can you talk to it with Linux? I don't, but I think you can. There's an SDK and emulator from the timex yahoo group folks. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: Size of symbols
Hello! I have created some symbols with the djboxsym tool and everything seems fine except that when I add the symbols to a schematic their size relative the title-B.sym is way too big. Should I adjust the size of the symbols or the size of title-B.sym? What is the correct way and how do I do that? Best regards, Peter Carlsson ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Size of symbols
On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 4:56 PM, Peter Carlsson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Should I adjust the size of the symbols or the size of title-B.sym? What is the correct way and how do I do that? I would adjust the size of the symbols. The standard symbols seem a bit too big for me as well. (* jcl *) -- http://www.luciani.org ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Size of symbols
On Oct 29, 2008, at 5:02 PM, John Luciani wrote: Should I adjust the size of the symbols or the size of title-B.sym? What is the correct way and how do I do that? I would adjust the size of the symbols. The standard symbols seem a bit too big for me as well. Same here. Is there any way to do this en masse? -Dave -- Dave McGuire Port Charlotte, FL ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Size of symbols
I have created some symbols with the djboxsym tool and everything seems fine except that when I add the symbols to a schematic their size relative the title-B.sym is way too big. Sometimes, grouping pins into busses in djboxsym helps (don't put blank lines between them, and put .bus on a line before the group). Sometimes you need more compact symbols, though. It depends on the symbols. See also: http://www.delorie.com/pcb/cs8900a.html ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Size of symbols
On Oct 29, 2008, at 3:04 PM, Dave McGuire wrote: On Oct 29, 2008, at 5:02 PM, John Luciani wrote: Should I adjust the size of the symbols or the size of title-B.sym? What is the correct way and how do I do that? I would adjust the size of the symbols. The standard symbols seem a bit too big for me as well. That's not the paradigm. The way gEDA works is that you keep the symbol size constant in gEDA's arbitrary units, and make the extent of your page what you want to shrink them to the size you want. I personally find title-B about right for letter or A4 paper with the existing symbols. I like modules I can comprehend, not spaghetti going all over the place. I also don't want to give the bifocals too much of a workout ;-) Note that you don't have to use a titleblock at all. Some of my collaborators just put in cvstitleblock-1.sym with no frame, so the schematic just fills whatever page it's printed on. John Doty Noqsi Aerospace, Ltd. http://www.noqsi.com/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Size of symbols
I personally find title-B about right for letter or A4 paper with the existing symbols. I have a set of my own titleblocks that are multiples of letter size, designed for extents without margins prints. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: pcb, howto partition power planes?
I went looking to see if the Analog Device book was available electronically. Here are the links. Steve Meier High Speed System Applications Table of Contents High Speed System Applications Section 1: High Speed Data Conversion Overview High Speed System Applications Section 2: Optimizing Data Converter Interfaces High Speed System Applications Section 3: DAC, DDS, PLL's, and Clock Distribution High Speed System Applications Section 4: PC Board Layout and Design Tools On Tue, 2008-10-28 at 13:44 -0700, Steve Meier wrote: I won't argue this point. I will refer every one to an Analog Device publication High Speed System Applications copyright 2006 ISBN-10: 1-56619-909-3 or ISBN-13: 978-1-56619-909-4 In particular if you get a copy of this book (and they gave me mine) look at pages 4.15 and 4.16 There AD recommends connecting both of the A/D grounds digital and analog to the analog ground plane this is because it causes less problems for the relatively small amount of digital return current to be returned through the analog ground than it would to connect the converter to the much noisy digital ground. There is a lot more talked about then just that one blurb. Steve Meier On Tue, 2008-10-28 at 11:22 -0700, Joerg wrote: Stefan Salewski wrote: Sometimes it is necessary/recommended to partition (separate) power or ground planes, i.e. for ADC or DC/DC-Converters, see page 16 and 17 in http://focus.ti.com/lit/ug/slwu028c/slwu028c.pdf We can do this in pcb program with (adjoining) polygons. Disadvantage is, that if we change the size of one of the polygons we have to manually adjust the other sizes. A other method may be so divide a large polygon by copper clearing traces (with trace width zero). This is related to my question from http://archives.seul.org/geda/user/Sep-2008/msg00387.html but not identical. What is the best way to handle this? I can't speak to that but just one word of caution: In my 20+ years in engineering I have yet to see one case where splitting a ground plane under high-speed ADCs has worked. Regardless of what application notes say. Usually it didn't work, lots of noise. Or it kind of worked but fell apart the instant somebody whipped out a GSM cell phone or BlackBerry. Myself, I never spilt a ground place. OTOH the industry practice of splitting planes is providing part of my income :-) The only time I split is where required for safety, for example patient isolation per 60601 (ECG, ultrasound etc.). ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Size of symbols
On Oct 29, 2008, at 5:33 PM, John Doty wrote: Should I adjust the size of the symbols or the size of title-B.sym? What is the correct way and how do I do that? I would adjust the size of the symbols. The standard symbols seem a bit too big for me as well. That's not the paradigm. The way gEDA works is that you keep the symbol size constant in gEDA's arbitrary units, and make the extent of your page what you want to shrink them to the size you want. I personally find title-B about right for letter or A4 paper with the existing symbols. I like modules I can comprehend, not spaghetti going all over the place. I also don't want to give the bifocals too much of a workout ;-) Note that you don't have to use a titleblock at all. Some of my collaborators just put in cvstitleblock-1.sym with no frame, so the schematic just fills whatever page it's printed on. I rather despise the new-fangled plop a component down and attach netnames to each of the pins, with no lines going anywhere methodology, if that's what you meant by your spaghetti reference. ;) What I like to do is have large schematics with small symbols, with a title block, and I print them usually at 11x17. Would it be reasonable to simply use a LARGE title block (say, E size) and scale it to fit the page on the way out to the printer? -Dave -- Dave McGuire Port Charlotte, FL ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Size of symbols
On Oct 29, 2008, at 4:22 PM, Dave McGuire wrote: On Oct 29, 2008, at 5:33 PM, John Doty wrote: Should I adjust the size of the symbols or the size of title- B.sym? What is the correct way and how do I do that? I would adjust the size of the symbols. The standard symbols seem a bit too big for me as well. That's not the paradigm. The way gEDA works is that you keep the symbol size constant in gEDA's arbitrary units, and make the extent of your page what you want to shrink them to the size you want. I personally find title-B about right for letter or A4 paper with the existing symbols. I like modules I can comprehend, not spaghetti going all over the place. I also don't want to give the bifocals too much of a workout ;-) Note that you don't have to use a titleblock at all. Some of my collaborators just put in cvstitleblock-1.sym with no frame, so the schematic just fills whatever page it's printed on. I rather despise the new-fangled plop a component down and attach netnames to each of the pins, with no lines going anywhere methodology, if that's what you meant by your spaghetti reference. ;) No, I meant the opposite, where you have hundreds of long lines on the page, requiring extremely careful tracing to figure out where the one you're interested goes. I like named nets. For the CCD focal plane electronics on the Suzaku satellite, I dispensed with drawings for the backplane altogether. I just had a database of net-connector pin associations and ground it into the netlist form the layout software wanted with an AWK script. Very easy to understand and edit. But then I turned it over real engineers (I'm just a physicist faking it), and they just *had* to have a drawing. To my eyes, it's incomprehensible... But to each his own. What I like to do is have large schematics with small symbols, with a title block, and I print them usually at 11x17. Would it be reasonable to simply use a LARGE title block (say, E size) and scale it to fit the page on the way out to the printer? Yes. That's the approach gschem supports: the paper size you give in the print dialog determines the scale of the PS output. I typically print a B titleblock on A paper. Some prefer C (screen) to A (paper). The only unreasonable thing here is that I suspect you'll find that people will need a magnifier to read E to B. But maybe your readers' eyes are better than mine. John Doty Noqsi Aerospace, Ltd. http://www.noqsi.com/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Size of symbols
I like a hierarchical schematic where I have a top.sch which has symbols for each of the major subsections and I use buses for most digital signal paths and nets for the analog paths to interconnect these symbols. When you have designs with a thousand components on it I don't care how small your symbols are or how big your printer is it ain't readable. Steve Meier On Wed, 2008-10-29 at 18:22 -0400, Dave McGuire wrote: On Oct 29, 2008, at 5:33 PM, John Doty wrote: Should I adjust the size of the symbols or the size of title-B.sym? What is the correct way and how do I do that? I would adjust the size of the symbols. The standard symbols seem a bit too big for me as well. That's not the paradigm. The way gEDA works is that you keep the symbol size constant in gEDA's arbitrary units, and make the extent of your page what you want to shrink them to the size you want. I personally find title-B about right for letter or A4 paper with the existing symbols. I like modules I can comprehend, not spaghetti going all over the place. I also don't want to give the bifocals too much of a workout ;-) Note that you don't have to use a titleblock at all. Some of my collaborators just put in cvstitleblock-1.sym with no frame, so the schematic just fills whatever page it's printed on. I rather despise the new-fangled plop a component down and attach netnames to each of the pins, with no lines going anywhere methodology, if that's what you meant by your spaghetti reference. ;) What I like to do is have large schematics with small symbols, with a title block, and I print them usually at 11x17. Would it be reasonable to simply use a LARGE title block (say, E size) and scale it to fit the page on the way out to the printer? -Dave ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
