gEDA-user: logic analyzers, verilog, and gtkwave...
Update... I'm still working on my SDRAM interface board: http://www.delorie.com/electronics/sdram/ I've been working on getting the sdram chip running at full speed (half speed works fine), so it's down to timing issues. I decided to remove the logic analyzer connector from the SDRAM side to clean up the signals (we've discussed this issue before), but I still need to debug the signals on that side. Plus, I need to check the relative timing of the read clock and the read data - i.e. the signals *inside* the chip. So, I decided to put a logic anaylzer *inside* the FPGA. It can watch the key signals at the right points, won't mess up the signal integrity, and I can get the data out on the MCU side anyway. The LA module I wrote is a DDR dual-bank capture, so it runs at 640 Ms/s (~1.5nS resolution), each sample 36 bits wide (this is limited by the small FPGA I chose), up to 1024 samples between the two banks. The MCU on the board reads the samples out through the mcu addr/data bus it already has with the FPGA and feeds the samples out over the USB. The console app I'm using on the PC to talk to the board sees the samples come across, and saves them to disk. A perl script turns them into a VCD file that gtkwave can read :-) Question: Can gtkwave be told to break up a bus into its component signals? My hardware LA can do this, it's really handy when you're trying to debug glitches relating to edge timing. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: logic analyzers, verilog, and gtkwave...
DJ - On Sun, Aug 09, 2009 at 05:51:40AM -0400, DJ Delorie wrote: The LA module I wrote is a DDR dual-bank capture, [chop] A perl script turns them into a VCD file that gtkwave can read :-) Awesome. I hope you'll write this up more, and publish code. Question: Can gtkwave be told to break up a bus into its component signals? It's in the Edit menu, called Expand (F3). - Larry ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: logic analyzers, verilog, and gtkwave...
Have you heard of the free logic analyzer? http://www.sump.org/projects/analyzer/ . It uses a xilinx dev board and java control software. It has also been ported to several other FPGA boards. The serial interface might be simple enough for you to use with your project. At my last job, I used this board for debugging SPI and I2C interfaces. Unfortunately, the author seems to have stopped maintaining it. The last release was 2.5 years ago and I never heard back regarding a patch I submitted. -Alan On Sun, Aug 9, 2009 at 6:51 AM, Larry Doolittleldool...@recycle.lbl.gov wrote: DJ - On Sun, Aug 09, 2009 at 05:51:40AM -0400, DJ Delorie wrote: The LA module I wrote is a DDR dual-bank capture, [chop] A perl script turns them into a VCD file that gtkwave can read :-) Awesome. I hope you'll write this up more, and publish code. Question: Can gtkwave be told to break up a bus into its component signals? It's in the Edit menu, called Expand (F3). - Larry ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: gEDA just hit SlashDotOrg
On Saturday 01 August 2009, Bob Paddock wrote: http://tech.slashdot.org/story/09/08/01/2114210/Cheap-Cross-P latform-Electronic-Circuit-Simulation-Software?from=rss Cheap, Cross-Platform Electronic Circuit Simulation Software? dv82 writes I teach circuits and electronics at the undergraduate level, and have been using the free student demo version of OrCad for schematic capture and simulation because (a) it comes with the textbook and (b) it's powerful enough for the job. Unfortunately OrCad runs only under Windows, and students increasingly are switching to Mac (and some Linux netbooks). Wine and its variants will not run OrCad, and I don't wish to require students to purchase Windows and run with a VM. The only production-quality cross-platform CAD tool I have found so far is McCad, but its demo version is so limited in total allowed nets that it can't even run a basic opamp circuit with a realistic 741 opamp model. gEDA is friendly to everything BUT Windows, and is nowhere near as refined as OrCad. I would like students to be able to run the software on their laptops without a network connection, which eliminates more options. Any suggestions? I was out of town when this hit (which was probably fortunate). What are we going to do about it? If we want people to use our tools .. 1. They need to be the best. 2. We need to provide a migration path -- in and out. Gnucap works fine, but there is a problem with the geda interface. Does anyone want to help? ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: gEDA just hit SlashDotOrg
On Aug 9, 2009, at 9:56 AM, al davis wrote: On Saturday 01 August 2009, Bob Paddock wrote: http://tech.slashdot.org/story/09/08/01/2114210/Cheap-Cross-P latform-Electronic-Circuit-Simulation-Software?from=rss Cheap, Cross-Platform Electronic Circuit Simulation Software? dv82 writes I teach circuits and electronics at the undergraduate level, and have been using the free student demo version of OrCad for schematic capture and simulation because (a) it comes with the textbook and (b) it's powerful enough for the job. Unfortunately OrCad runs only under Windows, and students increasingly are switching to Mac (and some Linux netbooks). Wine and its variants will not run OrCad, and I don't wish to require students to purchase Windows and run with a VM. The only production-quality cross-platform CAD tool I have found so far is McCad, but its demo version is so limited in total allowed nets that it can't even run a basic opamp circuit with a realistic 741 opamp model. gEDA is friendly to everything BUT Windows, and is nowhere near as refined as OrCad. I would like students to be able to run the software on their laptops without a network connection, which eliminates more options. Any suggestions? I was out of town when this hit (which was probably fortunate). What are we going to do about it? If we want people to use our tools .. 1. They need to be the best. 2. We need to provide a migration path -- in and out. Gnucap works fine, but there is a problem with the geda interface. Does anyone want to help? What's the problem you perceive? The author seems primarily concerned with the lack of a Windows binary. The other common complaint that comes from that direction is that gEDA is a toolkit, not an integrated tool (but I say Hurray!). ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user John Doty Noqsi Aerospace, Ltd. http://www.noqsi.com/ j...@noqsi.com ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: gEDA just hit SlashDotOrg
On Sun, 9 Aug 2009 11:56:22 -0400, al davis ad...@freeelectron.net wrote: [snip] gEDA is friendly to everything BUT Windows, [snip] I was out of town when this hit (which was probably fortunate). What are we going to do about it? [snip] ... there is a problem with the geda interface. Does anyone want to help? Let's be more specific. Does anyone want to help getting a Windows port working (reasonably) smoothly? Has anyone tested a Windows build recently? Peter -- Peter Brett pe...@peter-b.co.uk Remote Sensing Research Group Surrey Space Centre ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Progress with unified build
On Aug 8, 2009, at 10:15 AM, Dan McMahill wrote: - you may want to have a set of symbols which include the footprint name already (search for heavy symbol in the archives or wiki). Others may not want this. It is a personal preference thing and people tend to have strong opinions over which way is best. I think it's a little more than personal preference. Adding attributes piecemeal to library symbols is quick and easy for small projects, but scales poorly to related collections of big projects. It's like software: a very simple C program is sensibly a single file, but bigger codes benefit from being split into reusable modules and header files. The analogy *.c - *.sch and *.h - *.sym is a way to understand this. John Doty Noqsi Aerospace, Ltd. http://www.noqsi.com/ j...@noqsi.com ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: gEDA just hit SlashDotOrg
2009/8/9 Peter TB Brett pe...@peter-b.co.uk: Does anyone want to help getting a Windows port working (reasonably) smoothly? Has anyone tested a Windows build recently? I could pitch in on that. Good place to start? Cheers Gareth ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: gEDA just hit SlashDotOrg
On Sun, 09 Aug 2009 10:01:30 -0600, John Doty wrote: 2. We need to provide a migration path -- in and out. Gnucap works fine, but there is a problem with the geda interface. Does anyone want to help? What's the problem you perceive? The most obvious obstacle in the migration path is the lack of conversion tools. There is no way to go to and from other EDA suites that play in the same league (eagle, kicad, protel98). In the context of the slashdot article: Gschem does not interface very well with gnucap. There is no student-proof to just simulate a section of a schematic. Instead, it takes a rather tedious procedure just to get the response of a LC filter. The other common complaint that comes from that direction is that gEDA is a toolkit, not an integrated tool (but I say Hurray!). Carthaginem esse delendam? ---(kaimartin)--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Öffentlicher PGP-Schlüssel: http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0x6C0B9F53 ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: logic analyzers, verilog, and gtkwave...
Awesome. I hope you'll write this up more, and publish code. Yup, I plan on it. It's in the Edit menu, called Expand (F3). Sweet. Hmmm... Expand again on one of those individual lines should re-combine them. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: gEDA just hit SlashDotOrg
On Sun, 9 Aug 2009 17:17:17 +0100, Gareth Edwards gar...@edwardsfamily.org.uk wrote: 2009/8/9 Peter TB Brett pe...@peter-b.co.uk: Does anyone want to help getting a Windows port working (reasonably) smoothly? Has anyone tested a Windows build recently? I could pitch in on that. Good place to start? If I remember correctly... *searches mail archives* http://www.geda.seul.org/mailinglist/geda-dev126/msg00029.html That's probably a good place to start. I suggest the following algorithm: 1. Try something. 2. If it doesn't work, Google for a solution 3. If Google doesn't have answers, ask the list. 4. If the list doesn't have answers, file a bug and wait for someone to fix it or find a workaround. 5. Goto 1. Cheers, Peter ;-) ( who knows literally nothing about building GTK apps on Windows) -- Peter Brett pe...@peter-b.co.uk Remote Sensing Research Group Surrey Space Centre ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: logic analyzers, verilog, and gtkwave...
Have you heard of the free logic analyzer? http://www.sump.org/projects/analyzer/ Looks like an external analyzer, I have one of those. I did look at a number of other chipscope-like projects, too. None of them really did what I wanted, and mine was trivial enough to write in a few hours anyway. Plus, I need to get *more* samples per second :-) I think I can get it up to about 2Gs/s if I can figure out how to get a three-phase clock. The fact that I use an old-school memory bus for the external I/O makes pretty much any other project not as useful as it could be. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: gEDA just hit SlashDotOrg
Does anyone want to help getting a Windows port working (reasonably) smoothly? I would. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: gEDA just hit SlashDotOrg
2009/8/9 Peter TB Brett pe...@peter-b.co.uk: If I remember correctly... *searches mail archives* http://www.geda.seul.org/mailinglist/geda-dev126/msg00029.html That's probably a good place to start. OK, I'll have a play. Cheers Gareth ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: gEDA just hit SlashDotOrg
On Aug 9, 2009, at 11:09 AM, Kai-Martin Knaak wrote: On Sun, 09 Aug 2009 10:01:30 -0600, John Doty wrote: 2. We need to provide a migration path -- in and out. Gnucap works fine, but there is a problem with the geda interface. Does anyone want to help? What's the problem you perceive? The most obvious obstacle in the migration path is the lack of conversion tools. With the exception of the flow from gschem to layout in another suite, which works radically well. How to generalize? Well, if you want to export schematics instead of just netlists and BOM's, a gnetlist back end needs access to all the schematic data, not just a subset. The barrier here is all of the unnecessarily hard-wired behavior in the gnetlist front end. I'd still like to collaborate with you here: you seem to have penetrated the front end logic, while the back end is much simpler. Let's start to refactor gnetlist to make it even more flexible. There is no way to go to and from other EDA suites that play in the same league (eagle, kicad, protel98). Foreign schematic to gEDA schematic requires either some new framework or a collection of individual tools. However, you can merge in a foreign netlist by parsing it, outputting a .tsv version, and using pins2gsch. In the context of the slashdot article: Gschem does not interface very well with gnucap. There is no student-proof to just simulate a section of a schematic. Instead, it takes a rather tedious procedure just to get the response of a LC filter. The tools that do what you want are fritterware that doesn't scale well. While with gEDA I can check a project out from CVS, type something like make ChainTest.out, have all the subcircuit netlists and stimulus files built, data reduction programs compiled, SPICE run, data reduced, output generated... Now *that's* how you eliminate *real* tedious, productivity-sapping procedure. I don't even remember how all these machinations work, but I can read the Makefiles if I need to know. The other common complaint that comes from that direction is that gEDA is a toolkit, not an integrated tool (but I say Hurray!). Carthaginem esse delendam? Got the job done, didn't it? Does every EDA tool have to turn into fritterware for the computer illiterate? I'm grateful there's one that hasn't. John Doty Noqsi Aerospace, Ltd. http://www.noqsi.com/ j...@noqsi.com ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: gEDA just hit SlashDotOrg
On Sun, 9 Aug 2009 12:09:01 -0600, John Doty j...@noqsi.com wrote: With the exception of the flow from gschem to layout in another suite, which works radically well. How to generalize? Well, if you want to export schematics instead of just netlists and BOM's, a gnetlist back end needs access to all the schematic data, not just a subset. The barrier here is all of the unnecessarily hard-wired behavior in the gnetlist front end. One project I've had in mind for a while is to write a geda-netlist program in (almost) pure Scheme, which when run as gnetlist behaves the same as the current C gnetlist, but when run as geda-netlist uses new backends which have a lot more access to the netlist internals in order to get full control over the way that the schematics and symbols are processed. This is one of those things that I will do Soon (tm). Peter ;-) -- Peter Brett pe...@peter-b.co.uk Remote Sensing Research Group Surrey Space Centre ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: gEDA just hit SlashDotOrg
On Aug 9, 2009, at 12:45 PM, Peter TB Brett wrote: On Sun, 9 Aug 2009 12:09:01 -0600, John Doty j...@noqsi.com wrote: With the exception of the flow from gschem to layout in another suite, which works radically well. How to generalize? Well, if you want to export schematics instead of just netlists and BOM's, a gnetlist back end needs access to all the schematic data, not just a subset. The barrier here is all of the unnecessarily hard-wired behavior in the gnetlist front end. One project I've had in mind for a while is to write a geda-netlist program in (almost) pure Scheme, Would you parse the schems/symbols with libgeda? which when run as gnetlist behaves the same as the current C gnetlist, but when run as geda-netlist Not clear to me that you need that. Backends that limit themselves to the old API could get the old behavior. uses new backends which have a lot more access to the netlist internals in order to get full control over the way that the schematics and symbols are processed. The longer I think about this, the more useful applications I see. This is one of those things that I will do Soon (tm). If you want help... Peter ;-) -- Peter Brett pe...@peter-b.co.uk Remote Sensing Research Group Surrey Space Centre ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user John Doty Noqsi Aerospace, Ltd. http://www.noqsi.com/ j...@noqsi.com ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: build-system branch merged
Peter TB Brett wrote: Hi everybody, The build-system branch has now been merged. Please report any problems to the usual places. Hello! Nice work! I download gaf once in a fortnight and try to build it. I tried now. As always I stumbled into problem building _docs_, always this docs things. In this case it was gsymcheck's doc: make[3]: Entering directory `/home/spe/projects/geda/git-src/gaf/gsymcheck/docs' LC_NUMERIC=C groff -man -T html gsymcheck.1 gsymcheck.html.tmp \ mv -f gsymcheck.html.tmp gsymcheck.html groff: can't find `DESC' file groff:fatal error: invalid device `html' make[3]: *** [gsymcheck.html] Error 3 What I did on my Ubuntu system was to install the package groff. I already had the package groff-base installed. Then the build proceeded without complaining. I tried to Google it, but find nil. Now this is at least a reference for future generations. ;) Anyhow, a way to disable documentation generation would be nice, since it always seems to bite someones behind. Thanks and regards, /Stefan ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: gEDA just hit SlashDotOrg
On Sun, 09 Aug 2009 19:45:34 +0100, Peter TB Brett wrote: One project I've had in mind for a while is to write a geda-netlist And thus increment the number of netlisters associated with the geda project by one ;-) How will you make sure, that the new netlister exactly replicates the old behavior? Does this include the areas with room for improvement? Is there some comprehensive white-paper that specifies how gnetlist should behave when given arbitrary, syntactical valid *.sch data? program in (almost) pure Scheme, What is the share of users/developers that feel comfortable with scheme? Probably, the choice of programming language is less an issue than the quantity and quality of documentation. ---(kaimartin)--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Öffentlicher PGP-Schlüssel: http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0x6C0B9F53 ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Yet another netlister
On Sat, 01 Aug 2009 10:16:07 -0600, John Doty wrote: Just about any language works naturally on Unix these days, Not quite. C can draw on a host of system functions and libs that no other environtment variables, inter process communication via dbus and the various ways to interact with the system logs are just some of them. This infrastructure is one of the reasons why there are special obstacles when building geda/pcb for windows. For me that's not the issue: the issue is that you're putting yet another gnetlist behavior out of reach of back end control. You mean, the behavior of a netlister should depend on the order of components in the *.sch file? Please give an example if you seriously think so. ---(kaimartin)--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Öffentlicher PGP-Schlüssel: http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0x6C0B9F53 ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: gEDA just hit SlashDotOrg
On Sun, 09 Aug 2009 12:09:01 -0600, John Doty wrote: The most obvious obstacle in the migration path is the lack of conversion tools. With the exception of the flow from gschem to layout in another suite, which works radically well. This is not conversion, but a work flow partially in geda, partially in some other suite. As nice as it is, it does not make the switch to and from geda any easier. The missing feature is the ability to import and export symbols, schematics, footprints and layouts to and from other suites. ---(kaimartin)--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Öffentlicher PGP-Schlüssel: http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0x6C0B9F53 ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: logic analyzers, verilog, and gtkwave...
DJ - On Sun, Aug 09, 2009 at 01:22:20PM -0400, DJ Delorie wrote: It's in the Edit menu, called Expand (F3). Sweet. Hmmm... Expand again on one of those individual lines should re-combine them. No, you have to select a bunch of individual signals (they need not be the full set of the original bus, or even all related) and then Combine Up (or Combine Down). That step is smart enough to label continuous bits as you'd expect. Non-related bits get an artificial tag. - Larry ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Yet another netlister
On Aug 9, 2009, at 3:19 PM, Kai-Martin Knaak wrote: For me that's not the issue: the issue is that you're putting yet another gnetlist behavior out of reach of back end control. You mean, the behavior of a netlister should depend on the order of components in the *.sch file? Please give an example if you seriously think so. No. The order isn't the issue. The issue is that the front end should not arbitrarily restrict which attributes the back end gets to see. In this case the arbitrary selection is based on order, but it's the arbitrariness that's the problem. not the order. A back end that processes hierarchy on its own should see all of the source= attributes. A more sophisticated BOM than we have might usefully choose from multiple manufacturers' part numbers. But remember that neither you nor I can anticipate what information a future back end might need. Don't focus narrowly on specific scenarios. Let the back ends decide what they need to see. Don't hard wire decisions in the front end code. In this case, remove the arbitrary selection from the hard wired code and put it in the middle layer, where the back end can bypass it as needed. This kind of flexibility is gEDA's greatest strength. DO NOT DAMAGE IT. Don't hard wire anything new. Instead, let's improve it, move the decisions to the middle layer and back ends. John Doty Noqsi Aerospace, Ltd. http://www.noqsi.com/ j...@noqsi.com ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: logic analyzers, verilog, and gtkwave...
No, you have to select a bunch of individual signals (they need not be the full set of the original bus, or even all related) and then Combine Up (or Combine Down). Yup, I figured that out quickly enough. I just thought automatic un-expand would be an obvious thing, but it didn't work when I tried it. I.e. the fact that it wasn't a toggle was surprising. What my logic analyzer does... well, download it if you have windows or wine: http://www.pctestinstruments.com/downloads.htm (it runs in demo mode if you don't have the hardware). Anyway... if you have a bus (they call them groups) and expand it, it expands like a tree view - it shows the bus line *and* the component wires under it: http://www.delorie.com/pcb/tmp/logicport-bus.png Here, the RAMP DATA bus is expanded into Counter5 through Counter10, but you can see both the wire signals and the numerical combined value in the display. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: gEDA just hit SlashDotOrg
On Aug 9, 2009, at 3:37 PM, Kai-Martin Knaak wrote: On Sun, 09 Aug 2009 12:09:01 -0600, John Doty wrote: The most obvious obstacle in the migration path is the lack of conversion tools. With the exception of the flow from gschem to layout in another suite, which works radically well. This is not conversion, but a work flow partially in geda, partially in some other suite. As nice as it is, Name another tool that can do this as easily and flexibly as gEDA. If we take gEDA's strengths for granted, we will lose them. it does not make the switch to and from geda any easier. The missing feature is the ability to import and export symbols, schematics, footprints and layouts to and from other suites. So we need even greater flexibility. Less hard-wired, fewer barriers to arbitrary transformations. John Doty Noqsi Aerospace, Ltd. http://www.noqsi.com/ j...@noqsi.com ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Yet another netlister
John, Do you mean that one day source= attribute is reference to schematic, another day it is something else? We have to stick to some reasonable meaning of all attributes, at list to be able to exchange libraries and collect our work over the years, isn't it? Talking about ynetlist: it has exactly front, inner, and backend. I call it component/net collection, symbol elaboration, output netlist. By modifying only output I may create any netlist. But yet I do not see a reason why user should mangle with programming It is programmer responsibility to cover all needs. Alex. On 08/09/2009 04:43 PM, John Doty wrote: On Aug 9, 2009, at 3:19 PM, Kai-Martin Knaak wrote: For me that's not the issue: the issue is that you're putting yet another gnetlist behavior out of reach of back end control. You mean, the behavior of a netlister should depend on the order of components in the *.sch file? Please give an example if you seriously think so. No. The order isn't the issue. The issue is that the front end should not arbitrarily restrict which attributes the back end gets to see. In this case the arbitrary selection is based on order, but it's the arbitrariness that's the problem. not the order. A back end that processes hierarchy on its own should see all of the source= attributes. A more sophisticated BOM than we have might usefully choose from multiple manufacturers' part numbers. But remember that neither you nor I can anticipate what information a future back end might need. Don't focus narrowly on specific scenarios. Let the back ends decide what they need to see. Don't hard wire decisions in the front end code. In this case, remove the arbitrary selection from the hard wired code and put it in the middle layer, where the back end can bypass it as needed. This kind of flexibility is gEDA's greatest strength. DO NOT DAMAGE IT. Don't hard wire anything new. Instead, let's improve it, move the decisions to the middle layer and back ends. John Doty Noqsi Aerospace, Ltd. http://www.noqsi.com/ j...@noqsi.com ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user -- Alexander Burinskiy IC design San Jose, CA, 95129 (408)230-3458 (cell) ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
