Re: gEDA-user: How do I change initial window size on gschem and pcb?
Hi, 2010/4/7 Dave N6NZ n...@arrl.net: This may be an X-windows-on-Mac question, not a gEDA question, but... When gschem or pcb open on my macbook, the window is too tall, and the resize grabber is off the screen on the bottom and I can't reach it to resize the window. Normally, not an issue since I immediately move the window over to a nice big second monitor... but... when I am on the road, this sucks hugely. So... is this an X-windows setting someplace? Or is there some place in the source code where it asks for the screen size and opens over the whole works? -- I'm building both gschem and pcb from sources so I can easily tweak if that is the case. When gschem starts up, it show: ... Read system config file [/usr/share/gEDA/system-gafrc] Read system config file [/usr/share/gEDA/system-gschemrc] Read user config file [/home/atommann/.gEDA/gschemrc] Read init scm file [/usr/share/gEDA/scheme/gschem.scm] ... So, you can open /usr/share/gEDA/system-gschemrc and search for keyword window, read it and you will find how to change the initial size of the gschem window :) You can also add the following line to the file ~/.gEDA/gschemrc to override the settings in system-gschemrc (window-size 950 712) ; Good size for 1152x864 Hope this helps. -- Best regards, Atommann ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: paid help?
On Tue, 6 Apr 2010 21:36:33 -0700 Dave N6NZ n...@arrl.net wrote: Of course, you are asking about something different it seems, not a generator, but a parametric tweaker all masks shall now have offset X -- which is suppose could be handy, but I just regenerate the footprint with different parameters. Yes. There are however a few footprints which can not be generated by a generator. I use the footgen script for SMTs. Regeneration works, but when a complicated footprint is needed, I do it by hand. Tweeking the offsets with PCB or with an editor is ... hard. And a script can be automated by Makefile or other scripts. So I'll write some script if I can find the time. Levente -- Kovacs Levente leventel...@gmail.com Voice: +36705071002 ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: How do I change initial window size on gschem and pcb?
On Wed, 2010-04-07 at 14:23 +0800, Atommann wrote: Hi, 2010/4/7 Dave N6NZ n...@arrl.net: This may be an X-windows-on-Mac question, not a gEDA question, but... When gschem or pcb open on my macbook, the window is too tall, and the resize grabber is off the screen on the bottom and I can't reach it to resize the window. Normally, not an issue since I immediately move the window over to a nice big second monitor... but... when I am on the road, this sucks hugely. So... is this an X-windows setting someplace? Or is there some place in the source code where it asks for the screen size and opens over the whole works? -- I'm building both gschem and pcb from sources so I can easily tweak if that is the case. When gschem starts up, it show: ... Read system config file [/usr/share/gEDA/system-gafrc] Read system config file [/usr/share/gEDA/system-gschemrc] Read user config file [/home/atommann/.gEDA/gschemrc] Read init scm file [/usr/share/gEDA/scheme/gschem.scm] ... So, you can open /usr/share/gEDA/system-gschemrc and search for keyword window, read it and you will find how to change the initial size of the gschem window :) You can also add the following line to the file ~/.gEDA/gschemrc to override the settings in system-gschemrc (window-size 950 712) ; Good size for 1152x864 Looking at the code, I'm not sure that will actually do anything.. let me know if it works. We now have a file which remembers location and size of various windows, but not the main window - the window manager is in charge of that kind of thing. Regards, -- Peter Clifton Electrical Engineering Division, Engineering Department, University of Cambridge, 9, JJ Thomson Avenue, Cambridge CB3 0FA Tel: +44 (0)7729 980173 - (No signal in the lab!) Tel: +44 (0)1223 748328 - (Shared lab phone, ask for me) ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: How do I change initial window size on gschem and pcb?
On Apr 7, 2010, at 5:38 AM, Peter Clifton wrote: On Wed, 2010-04-07 at 14:23 +0800, Atommann wrote: Hi, 2010/4/7 Dave N6NZ n...@arrl.net: This may be an X-windows-on-Mac question, not a gEDA question, but... When gschem or pcb open on my macbook, the window is too tall, and the resize grabber is off the screen on the bottom and I can't reach it to resize the window. Normally, not an issue since I immediately move the window over to a nice big second monitor... but... when I am on the road, this sucks hugely. So... is this an X-windows setting someplace? Or is there some place in the source code where it asks for the screen size and opens over the whole works? -- I'm building both gschem and pcb from sources so I can easily tweak if that is the case. When gschem starts up, it show: ... Read system config file [/usr/share/gEDA/system-gafrc] Read system config file [/usr/share/gEDA/system-gschemrc] Read user config file [/home/atommann/.gEDA/gschemrc] Read init scm file [/usr/share/gEDA/scheme/gschem.scm] ... So, you can open /usr/share/gEDA/system-gschemrc and search for keyword window, read it and you will find how to change the initial size of the gschem window :) You can also add the following line to the file ~/.gEDA/gschemrc to override the settings in system-gschemrc (window-size 950 712) ; Good size for 1152x864 Looking at the code, I'm not sure that will actually do anything.. let me know if it works. OK, great. I will try that and report back. That will be convenient if it does work. Of course, someone reminded me that the green button on a Mac window will do a full-screen resize, which has the effect of reshaping an oversize window to something useable. Another face-palm moment for me. We now have a file which remembers location and size of various windows, but not the main window - the window manager is in charge of that kind of thing. Yes, which is an annoyance for me but not something it seems we can do anything about. When at my desk, I run my Mac laptop with a 24 external monitor, which is of course the natural place for gschem, pcb, and any other CAD program. But the Mac X Windows system always opens windows on the first monitor, which is the laptop screen, so I'm constantly dragging them over. The native Mac applications using the Quartz window manager open where they were when the program last shutdown, assuming the monitor is still available. For whatever reason, the Mac X Windows subsystem doesn't do that. Thanks, Dave ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: paid help?
On Wed, 2010-04-07 at 13:43 +0900, timecop wrote: I would never trust pre-made symbols for any project, it takes very Similar for me, and I do not trust my own symbols also! And I have to admit that I do not really trust the linux kernel, my web browser and email client, ... Maybe I should try to write all of this myself, when I am finished with building my own car and CPU. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: paid help?
On Wed, 2010-04-07 at 01:21 +0200, Levente Kovacs wrote: Is there any non-interactive footprint editor around? Like a perl script which I do not know an editor, but there are non interactive generators like footgen and my sfg -- for sfg you can set mask offset and clearance very easy, and if you modify the input data file it generates your desired spaces in seconds. This was why I wrote it. For modifying clearance and mask offset of existing footprints: I think both properties are bound to the whole PCB board and manufacturer, so we may set it for the whole board, maybe with exceptions for single devices. I think this is possible, see my question on this list, I will try that when my next board is finished: http://archives.seul.org/geda/user/Oct-2008/msg00085.html ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: paid help?
On Apr 7, 2010, at 9:25 AM, Stefan Salewski wrote: On Wed, 2010-04-07 at 13:43 +0900, timecop wrote: I would never trust pre-made symbols for any project, it takes very Similar for me, and I do not trust my own symbols also! True enough. The only time I have been badly burned is when using a downloaded footprint without checking it. OK, not true. The *other* time I was badly burned was when I expected that the footprint in a Freescale data sheet would actually be somewhat close to the actual part -- I do admit it had the same number of pins... And then I've made goofs that were my fault, but mostly of the silkscreen polarity backwards variety. And I have to admit that I do not really trust the linux kernel, my web browser and email client, ... Maybe I should try to write all of this myself, when I am finished with building my own car and CPU. I've got a friend like you. He doesn't like C, so he wrote his own compiler. He won't pay for SolidWorks or similar, so he wrote his own 3D CAD package. He's now working on his own CAM package -- someday he may make a part, but last week he did a spindle-off rapid plunge into a piece of 1/2 aluminum plate on the HAAS at San Jose City College. HAAS rapids are pretty fast :) It's interesting working on CNC and robotics... the phrase software crash takes on a whole new meaning. -dave ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: hydraulic symbols and schematics
Hi, Obviously gschem is intended for electric circuits, but has anyone used it for hydraulic schematics? The hydraulics industry has defined a fairly rich schematic language [1][2] for describing hydraulic and pneumatic systems. I didn't find a gschem hydraulic symbol library, so I'm attempting to build one. My first stumbling block is the use of filled and non-filled triangles, which differentiate hydraulic pumps from pneumatic compressors. Is it possible to draw filled triangles or polygons with gschem? Do you foresee any other difficulties? ... aside from simulating a hydraulic circuit with spice or generating a layout. (BTW at Eaton, we have a history of bending EDA tools for our purposes. We used GTKWave to view and analyze vehicle data in realtime.) Thanks. -Tom [1] http://www.hydraulicspneumatics.com/200/eBooks/Article/True/32028/ [2] http://www.airlinehyd.com/KnowledgeCenter/Symbols.asp ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: hydraulic symbols and schematics
Hi -- Obviously gschem is intended for electric circuits, but has anyone used it for hydraulic schematics? The hydraulics industry has defined a fairly rich schematic language [1][2] for describing hydraulic and pneumatic systems. I didn't find a gschem hydraulic symbol library, so I'm attempting to build one. My first stumbling block is the use of filled and non-filled triangles, which differentiate hydraulic pumps from pneumatic compressors. Is it possible to draw filled triangles or polygons with gschem? I don't think vanilla gschem currently supports filled regions. But this is a frequently requested feature, and the folks in Cambridge may have coded up a solution based upon the whizzy graphic work they have done. Do you foresee any other difficulties? ... aside from simulating a hydraulic circuit with spice or generating a layout. Actually, my first thought was: What kinds of simulations (if any) does one do in hydraulics? Are there any standard simulators? If so, generating a netlist to feed to such a simulator might be an interesting hobby project. (BTW at Eaton, we have a history of bending EDA tools for our purposes. We used GTKWave to view and analyze vehicle data in realtime.) Awesome! How did you get the real time info into GTKWave? IIRC, it only reads .vsd (and other simulation) files. Stuart ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: hydraulic symbols and schematics
On Wed, Apr 7, 2010 at 12:02 PM, Stuart Brorson s...@cloud9.net wrote: Hi -- Obviously gschem is intended for electric circuits, but has anyone used it for hydraulic schematics? The hydraulics industry has defined a fairly rich schematic language [1][2] for describing hydraulic and pneumatic systems. I didn't find a gschem hydraulic symbol library, so I'm attempting to build one. My first stumbling block is the use of filled and non-filled triangles, which differentiate hydraulic pumps from pneumatic compressors. Is it possible to draw filled triangles or polygons with gschem? I don't think vanilla gschem currently supports filled regions. But this is a frequently requested feature, and the folks in Cambridge may have coded up a solution based upon the whizzy graphic work they have done. Well it appears to fill circles and boxes just fine. Maybe it just needs the ability to handle arbitrary polygons. Do you foresee any other difficulties? ... aside from simulating a hydraulic circuit with spice or generating a layout. Actually, my first thought was: What kinds of simulations (if any) does one do in hydraulics? Are there any standard simulators? If so, generating a netlist to feed to such a simulator might be an interesting hobby project. We use Easy5 and Simulink. But Easy5 doesn't run on Linux and both tools are very clunky and neither have a standard format. This year I plan to build some tools in this space. It would be cool to netlist a hydraulic design out of gschem and simulate it with other stuff like embedded software and vehicle dynamics. If you look at some hydraulic schematics, you'll see a rich duality between electric and hydraulic circuits. For example, the pressure drop across an orifice is analogous to the voltage drop across a resistor. Hydraulic power is pressure * flow (i.e. V * I). (BTW at Eaton, we have a history of bending EDA tools for our purposes. We used GTKWave to view and analyze vehicle data in realtime.) Awesome! How did you get the real time info into GTKWave? IIRC, it only reads .vsd (and other simulation) files. We extract vehicle data via. a CAN bus. We then convert the streaming CSV data into VCD and pipe this into GTKWave. The command line reads: $ readCAN | tovcd - | shmidcat | gtkwave -v -I my.sav We put a laptop in the passenger seat when we take our test vehicles out for a drive. With the analog features of GTKWave, you can see all the vehicle data varying in realtime. It's really cool. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: How do I reference a shell variable from guile script?
Suppose I want to build a path like: $HOME/path/gedasymbols to pick up component libraries, without unrolling $HOME into a hard path in a (define..) -- how do I get guile to pick up the value of $HOME from the shell, and then get it pasted into the rest of the stuff? I'm aiming for: (define gedasymbols path built off $HOME) (component-library (build-path gedasymbols foo)) TIA -dave ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: hydraulic symbols and schematics
On Wednesday 07 April 2010, Stuart Brorson wrote: Do you foresee any other difficulties? ... aside from simulating a hydraulic circuit with spice or generating a layout. Actually, my first thought was: What kinds of simulations (if any) does one do in hydraulics? Are there any standard simulators? If so, generating a netlist to feed to such a simulator might be an interesting hobby project. If simulation means Spice to you, you are 20 years behind. Looking to the past ... Simulations of things like this were (and are) often done on a proprietary commercial simulator Saber, using a proprietary modeling language Mast. Matlab/Simulink is also popular (and proprietary). Looking forward ... Things like this can be done very well in Verilog-AMS, which has a published standard, cleaner syntax, and several commercial implementations. Many users of Saber and Mast are switching over. Gnucap provides partial support for Verilog-AMS, and is working on more complete support. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: How do I reference a shell variable from guile script?
On Apr 7, 2010, at 11:49 AM, Dave N6NZ wrote:
Suppose I want to build a path like: $HOME/path/gedasymbols to pick up
component libraries, without unrolling $HOME into a hard path in a (define..)
-- how do I get guile to pick up the value of $HOME from the shell, and then
get it pasted into the rest of the stuff?
Use ${HOME}. Here's a related (working) example from one of my projects:
(component-library ${EDCCD_DEV}/hardware/symbols/EDCCD)
EDCCD_DEV is an environment variable.
I'm aiming for:
(define gedasymbols path built off $HOME)
(component-library (build-path gedasymbols foo))
I'm not sure where the expansion occurs. It may be necessary to put the
variable into the string arg for component-library.
John Doty Noqsi Aerospace, Ltd.
http://www.noqsi.com/
j...@noqsi.com
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Re: gEDA-user: hydraulic symbols and schematics
If you look at some hydraulic schematics, you'll see a rich duality between electric and hydraulic circuits. For example, the pressure drop across an orifice is analogous to the voltage drop across a resistor. Hydraulic power is pressure * flow (i.e. V * I). http://www.unusualresearch.com/Pump/bellocq.htm US Patent: 1,941,593 01/02/1934 PUMPING [This patent is interesting in that it shows the plumbing equivalent to resonance circuits, high pass, low pass, and band pass filters.] http://v3.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOCadjacent=truelocale=en_EPFT=Ddate=19340102CC=USNR=1941593AKC=A ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: hydraulic symbols and schematics
On Apr 7, 2010, at 11:54 AM, al davis wrote: On Wednesday 07 April 2010, Stuart Brorson wrote: Do you foresee any other difficulties? ... aside from simulating a hydraulic circuit with spice or generating a layout. Actually, my first thought was: What kinds of simulations (if any) does one do in hydraulics? Are there any standard simulators? If so, generating a netlist to feed to such a simulator might be an interesting hobby project. If simulation means Spice to you, you are 20 years behind. Unless you have deep pockets (and even for some who do), SPICE is today's simulator. I know you don't like this, but it's the truth. Looking to the past ... Simulations of things like this were (and are) often done on a proprietary commercial simulator Saber, using a proprietary modeling language Mast. Matlab/Simulink is also popular (and proprietary). Looking forward ... Things like this can be done very well in Verilog-AMS, which has a published standard, cleaner syntax, and several commercial implementations. Many users of Saber and Mast are switching over. Gnucap provides partial support for Verilog-AMS, and is working on more complete support. But that's tomorrow. Another approach you'll hate is to use the symbolic capabilities of a computer algebra system to analyze a design. See http://www.noqsi.com/images/pareg.nb.pdf for an example hot off the press. Unfortunately, the free software offerings don't seem to be up to this yet. Fortunately, Mathematica isn't as pricey as fancy EDA tools, and gEDA can feed it just fine. John Doty Noqsi Aerospace, Ltd. http://www.noqsi.com/ j...@noqsi.com ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: How do I reference a shell variable from guile script?
On Apr 7, 2010, at 11:05 AM, John Doty wrote:
On Apr 7, 2010, at 11:49 AM, Dave N6NZ wrote:
Suppose I want to build a path like: $HOME/path/gedasymbols to pick up
component libraries, without unrolling $HOME into a hard path in a
(define..) -- how do I get guile to pick up the value of $HOME from the
shell, and then get it pasted into the rest of the stuff?
Use ${HOME}. Here's a related (working) example from one of my projects:
(component-library ${EDCCD_DEV}/hardware/symbols/EDCCD)
Perfect! No amount of googling brought up a simple syntax example like that.
Thanks,
-dave
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Re: gEDA-user: hydraulic symbols and schematics
Hi Bob, Do not discuss patents here please ! This is highly contageous and attracts law suits. Without the mentioning of patents the general idea would have come across as well. Kind regards, Bert Timmerman. -Original Message- From: geda-user-boun...@moria.seul.org [mailto:geda-user-boun...@moria.seul.org] On Behalf Of Bob Paddock Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2010 8:10 PM To: gEDA user mailing list Subject: Re: gEDA-user: hydraulic symbols and schematics If you look at some hydraulic schematics, you'll see a rich duality between electric and hydraulic circuits. For example, the pressure drop across an orifice is analogous to the voltage drop across a resistor. Hydraulic power is pressure * flow (i.e. V * I). http://www.unusualresearch.com/Pump/bellocq.htm US Patent: 1,941,593 01/02/1934 PUMPING [This patent is interesting in that it shows the plumbing equivalent to resonance circuits, high pass, low pass, and band pass filters.] http://v3.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOCad jacent=truelocale=en_EPFT=Ddate=19340102CC=USNR=1941593AKC=A ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: hydraulic symbols and schematics
On Apr 7, 2010, at 2:46 PM, Bert Timmerman wrote: Do not discuss patents here please ! This is highly contageous and attracts law suits. Without the mentioning of patents the general idea would have come across as well. Oh good heavens. Mentioning the existence of a patent, and suggesting it as good reading because it contains interesting and geeky science stuff, attracts LAWSUITS? Not enough coffee this morning Bert? -Dave -- Dave McGuire Port Charlotte, FL ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: hydraulic symbols and schematics
Oh good heavens. Mentioning the existence of a patent, and suggesting it as good reading because it contains interesting and geeky science stuff, attracts LAWSUITS? Regardless, I would also say do not discuss patents here, for various (legal and otherwise) reasons. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: hydraulic symbols and schematics
On Wednesday 07 April 2010, Bert Timmerman wrote: Do not discuss patents here please ! Did you notice the date? (1934) ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: hydraulic symbols and schematics
On Wed, Apr 7, 2010 at 2:49 PM, Dave McGuire mcgu...@neurotica.com wrote: On Apr 7, 2010, at 2:46 PM, Bert Timmerman wrote: Do not discuss patents here please ! This is highly contageous and attracts law suits. Without the mentioning of patents the general idea would have come across as well. Oh good heavens. Mentioning the existence of a patent, and suggesting it as good reading because it contains interesting and geeky science stuff, attracts LAWSUITS? No really. Please do not post or discuss patents on any gEDA mailing list. -Ales -- Ales Hvezda ahve...@computer.org ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: hydraulic symbols and schematics
On Apr 7, 2010, at 2:51 PM, Ales Hvezda wrote: Do not discuss patents here please ! This is highly contageous and attracts law suits. Without the mentioning of patents the general idea would have come across as well. Oh good heavens. Mentioning the existence of a patent, and suggesting it as good reading because it contains interesting and geeky science stuff, attracts LAWSUITS? No really. Please do not post or discuss patents on any gEDA mailing list. Ok, that's fine by me, as it's your list. But could you explain how it could be dangerous? That suggestion sounds quite ludicrous to me. -Dave -- Dave McGuire Port Charlotte, FL ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: hydraulic symbols and schematics
Ok, that's fine by me, as it's your list. But could you explain how it could be dangerous? That suggestion sounds quite ludicrous to me. For starters, archived proof that you knew of the existence of a patent automatically triples any damages you may have to pay. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: hydraulic symbols and schematics
On Apr 7, 2010, at 2:58 PM, DJ Delorie wrote: Ok, that's fine by me, as it's your list. But could you explain how it could be dangerous? That suggestion sounds quite ludicrous to me. For starters, archived proof that you knew of the existence of a patent automatically triples any damages you may have to pay. Ahh. I tend to at least *try* to avoid patent infringement myself, so I never thought of that. Thanks for the example. -Dave -- Dave McGuire Port Charlotte, FL ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: hydraulic symbols and schematics
Tom, I didn't find a gschem hydraulic symbol library, so I'm attempting to build one. My first stumbling block is the use of filled and non-filled triangles, which differentiate hydraulic pumps from pneumatic compressors. Is it possible to draw filled triangles or polygons with gschem? See this: http://geda.seul.org/wiki/geda:file_format_spec?s=svg#path Currently only available when using your favourite text editor _and_ a recent gschem for printing. Please first try to print the given example symbols, using the component dialog see under Basic Device for these symbols: npn-1.sym, npn-2.sym, etc. Bas -- ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: hydraulic symbols and schematics
On Wednesday 07 April 2010, Dave McGuire wrote: Ok, that's fine by me, as it's your list. But could you explain how it could be dangerous? That suggestion sounds quite ludicrous to me. In general, it really does present a huge legal risk, so I agree with the policy. In this case, the patent is so old that it has gone into the public domain long ago. A long time ago, all this stuff we consider to be so basic was new. The concept of duality between different types of circuits is well known, and taught in undergraduate engineering courses. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: hydraulic symbols and schematics
Hi Tom, I'm a mechanical engineer (BSc) with an electrical background (Technical College). I have thought of and made a small start for non-electrical symbols for Piping Instrumentation Diagrams, with hydraulics and pneumatical symbols to follow (http://github.com/bert/gschem-symbols/tree/master/piping/). Another use for gschem, netlist and friends could be the simulation of distribution networks of natural gas or tap water, maybe even simulation of drainage systems: ditches, canals and/or large water ways. It's just a matter entering a schematic representation for connectivity (nets), adding the right attributes and invoking a scheme backend with netlist to do your preprocessing and solver stuff (this is the real challenge, not the schematics). Just my EUR 0.02 Kind regards, Bert Timmerman. -Original Message- From: geda-user-boun...@moria.seul.org [mailto:geda-user-boun...@moria.seul.org] On Behalf Of Tom Hawkins Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2010 7:41 PM To: gEDA user mailing list Subject: Re: gEDA-user: hydraulic symbols and schematics On Wed, Apr 7, 2010 at 12:02 PM, Stuart Brorson s...@cloud9.net wrote: Hi -- Obviously gschem is intended for electric circuits, but has anyone used it for hydraulic schematics? The hydraulics industry has defined a fairly rich schematic language [1][2] for describing hydraulic and pneumatic systems. I didn't find a gschem hydraulic symbol library, so I'm attempting to build one. My first stumbling block is the use of filled and non-filled triangles, which differentiate hydraulic pumps from pneumatic compressors. Is it possible to draw filled triangles or polygons with gschem? I don't think vanilla gschem currently supports filled regions. But this is a frequently requested feature, and the folks in Cambridge may have coded up a solution based upon the whizzy graphic work they have done. Well it appears to fill circles and boxes just fine. Maybe it just needs the ability to handle arbitrary polygons. Do you foresee any other difficulties? ... aside from simulating a hydraulic circuit with spice or generating a layout. Actually, my first thought was: What kinds of simulations (if any) does one do in hydraulics? Are there any standard simulators? If so, generating a netlist to feed to such a simulator might be an interesting hobby project. We use Easy5 and Simulink. But Easy5 doesn't run on Linux and both tools are very clunky and neither have a standard format. This year I plan to build some tools in this space. It would be cool to netlist a hydraulic design out of gschem and simulate it with other stuff like embedded software and vehicle dynamics. If you look at some hydraulic schematics, you'll see a rich duality between electric and hydraulic circuits. For example, the pressure drop across an orifice is analogous to the voltage drop across a resistor. Hydraulic power is pressure * flow (i.e. V * I). (BTW at Eaton, we have a history of bending EDA tools for our purposes. We used GTKWave to view and analyze vehicle data in realtime.) Awesome! How did you get the real time info into GTKWave? IIRC, it only reads .vsd (and other simulation) files. We extract vehicle data via. a CAN bus. We then convert the streaming CSV data into VCD and pipe this into GTKWave. The command line reads: $ readCAN | tovcd - | shmidcat | gtkwave -v -I my.sav We put a laptop in the passenger seat when we take our test vehicles out for a drive. With the analog features of GTKWave, you can see all the vehicle data varying in realtime. It's really cool. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: hydraulic symbols and schematics
You might find University of South Carolina 's VTB (Virtual Test Bench) software useful. It is free to download (but seems to be closed source -- I couldn't find any details on the license). [1]http://vtb.engr.sc.edu/vtbwebsite/#/Overview It's intended for doing multidisciplinary simulations involving fluid flow, electronics, logic, microcontrollers and so on, with different solvers being used for different types of components in the simulation. You can add your own solver, or write your own device primitives using existing solvers. It includes components representing pumps, valves, digital logic, motors, space vector modulation algorithms, vehicles, math functions, etc. The interface is quite nice to use, too. As for the gschem / spice route - It occurs to me that if you want to simulate hydraulic systems, you'll have to keep track of both pressure and temperature of the fluid in the lines. If each hydraulic line is represented by a single line in gschem, the netlister should convert it into two different nets in the spice simulation - one for pressure and one for temperature in that line. Also, take a good look at gnucap; it also has the flexibility of adding your own device primitives, which could be very useful for fluid systems. I haven't tried it, but a simple primitive of the form pressure drop = 0.5 * Cv * flow^2 is probably much easier to implement in gnucap than in spice. __ Looking for the perfect gift?[2] Give the gift of Flickr! References 1. http://vtb.engr.sc.edu/vtbwebsite/#/Overview 2. http://www.flickr.com/gift/ ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: hydraulic symbols and schematics
On Apr 7, 2010, at 3:14 PM, al davis wrote: Ok, that's fine by me, as it's your list. But could you explain how it could be dangerous? That suggestion sounds quite ludicrous to me. In general, it really does present a huge legal risk, so I agree with the policy. I will respect the policy and I apologize for my comment to Bert. I'm still having a really hard time with the notion of mentioning the existence of a patent constituting a legal risk. -Dave -- Dave McGuire Port Charlotte, FL ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: Filled / unfilled paths [WAS: Re: hydraulic symbols and schematics]
On Wed, 2010-04-07 at 13:02 -0400, Stuart Brorson wrote: I don't think vanilla gschem currently supports filled regions. But this is a frequently requested feature, and the folks in Cambridge may have coded up a solution based upon the whizzy graphic work they have done. No, it does (since 1.6.0)... (kindof). You will have to work a little to get them though, as there is no built in GUI way to create them yet. You can code them into your symbols from a text editor though.. (not as hard as it sounds. Look up the PATH object syntax and you can seed some objects to copy +paste into your symbols. http://www.geda.seul.org/wiki/geda:file_format_spec#path http://www.geda.seul.org/wiki/geda:file_format_spec#path_data For example, you could open up one of our existing NPN / PNP transistor symbols (which use a quadrilateral filled path to make the arrow on the transistor). You can copy+paste that element into your own symbols.. One you can recognise the path object in the file, you can add / remove vertices (don't forget to update the line-count on the path header line). Once you have the number / order of line segments and curves you want, you can edit the exact node / control point positions within gschem the same way as for any line. Regards, -- Peter Clifton Electrical Engineering Division, Engineering Department, University of Cambridge, 9, JJ Thomson Avenue, Cambridge CB3 0FA Tel: +44 (0)7729 980173 - (No signal in the lab!) Tel: +44 (0)1223 748328 - (Shared lab phone, ask for me) ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: symbol edit-translate working strangely
I've created some symbols with non-zero width outlines using line elements of width 40. edit-translate(0) seems to get confused, and offsets the symbol so the pins don't line up on 100 unit grid. edit-translate with independent x,y values seems to by broken. How can I fix this, short of writing a script to translate the X/Y coordinates? (And no, I'm not going back to zero-width boxes. Wide lines are too pretty.) -dave ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: hydraulic symbols and schematics
Thanks for all the input. Here's the little hydraulic symbol library I started: http://tomahawkins.org/gschem-hydraulics.png http://github.com/tomahawkins/hydraulics A bit later I'll looking into path fills, and after that, netlisting this into something that can be simulated. Thanks for your help. -Tom ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: How do I change initial window size on gschem and pcb?
Hi, 2010/4/7 Peter Clifton pc...@cam.ac.uk On Wed, 2010-04-07 at 14:23 +0800, Atommann wrote: Hi, 2010/4/7 Dave N6NZ n...@arrl.net: This may be an X-windows-on-Mac question, not a gEDA question, but... When gschem or pcb open on my macbook, the window is too tall, and the resize grabber is off the screen on the bottom and I can't reach it to resize the window. Normally, not an issue since I immediately move the window over to a nice big second monitor... but... when I am on the road, this sucks hugely. So... is this an X-windows setting someplace? Or is there some place in the source code where it asks for the screen size and opens over the whole works? -- I'm building both gschem and pcb from sources so I can easily tweak if that is the case. When gschem starts up, it show: ... Read system config file [/usr/share/gEDA/system-gafrc] Read system config file [/usr/share/gEDA/system-gschemrc] Read user config file [/home/atommann/.gEDA/gschemrc] Read init scm file [/usr/share/gEDA/scheme/gschem.scm] ... So, you can open /usr/share/gEDA/system-gschemrc and search for keyword window, read it and you will find how to change the initial size of the gschem window :) You can also add the following line to the file ~/.gEDA/gschemrc to override the settings in system-gschemrc (window-size 950 712) ; Good size for 1152x864 Looking at the code, I'm not sure that will actually do anything.. let me know if it works. I tested this method, it works. If there is no ~/.gEDA/gschemrc, just create it. We now have a file which remembers location and size of various windows, but not the main window - the window manager is in charge of that kind of thing. -- Best regards, Atommann ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
