Re: [Gendergap] Kill thread dead - Re: Larry Sanger's blog post: Should there be a Wikipedia boycott over the lack of an image filter?

[Michelle Gallaway]

Hear hear!

On Mon, Jun 4, 2012 at 1:41 PM, Carol Moore DC wrote:

>  Sounds good... go for it...
> On 6/3/2012 12:50 PM, Sarah Stierch wrote:
>
> Hi everyone,
>
> I think we're on the "Beating a dead horse" again situation with this
> subject.[1]  We will be going in circles about it - most of us seem to not
> care as much as others, and no one seems to be taking any direct action at
> this point. *I'm evening proposing this: someone can create a mailing
> list or an on-wiki space (even better!) to continue the discussion and
> those folks interested in examining pornography, sex related, whatnot
> images on Wikimedia projects can discuss it until their hearts content and
> think about ways to take action, etc.*
>
> After request from a few participants off list and my own personal
> interest, I'm declaring that we kill this thread and move on.
>
> Participants in this thread may now under go moderator regarding this
> specific thread.
>
> And what's more interesting, is that the majority of women who are
> participating in this conversation seem to be the one's with the least
> concern about it, go figure.
>
> Thanks everyone,
>
> Sarah
>
> [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flogging_a_dead_horse
>
>
>
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[Gendergap] Guns, Girls and Games

[Tom Morris]

The BBC broadcast a half hour documentary on Saturday called 'Guns, Girls and 
Games' which deals with sexual harassment in video games.  



Two of the women interviewed in the programme run websites which try to 
highlight harassment and misogyny in online games:




They also briefly discussed the homophobia and racism present in some gaming 
communities.

Incidentally, Xbox Live's response to homophobia is a perfect example of how to 
not solve these kinds of problems. They simply made it so users couldn't 
express their sexual orientation on their profiles. 'Cos, you know, the best 
way to make gay users feel like comfortable and welcome members of a community 
is to force them back in the closet for their own protection…

--  
Tom Morris




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Re: [Gendergap] Kill thread dead - Re: Larry Sanger's blog post: Should there be a Wikipedia boycott over the lack of an image filter?

[Joseph Reagle]

On 06/03/2012 12:50 PM, Sarah Stierch wrote:

I think we're on the "Beating a dead horse" again situation with this
subject.[1] We will be going in circles about it - most of us seem to
not care as much as others, and no one seems to be taking any direct
action at this point. *I'm evening proposing this: someone can create a
mailing list or an on-wiki space (even better!) to continue the
discussion and those folks interested in examining pornography, sex
related, whatnot images on Wikimedia projects can discuss it until their
hearts content and think about ways to take action, etc.*


I suggested the same thing to Andreas, but I doubt he'll let it go 
easily on this list...


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[Gendergap] it seems to me... Re: Guns, Girls and Games

[koltzenburg]

hi @all, 

it seems to me the WP needs a mailingslist or other outlet for sex issues of 
all shades
since there seem to be quite a few who think it belongs in the gendergap list - 
exclusively...?

best,
Claudia

On Mon, 4 Jun 2012 12:13:42 +0100, Tom Morris wrote
> The BBC broadcast a half hour documentary on Saturday called 'Guns, Girls 
> and Games' which deals with sexual harassment in video games.
> 
> 
> 
> Two of the women interviewed in the programme run websites which try to 
> highlight harassment and misogyny in online games:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They also briefly discussed the homophobia and racism present in some 
> gaming communities.
> 
> Incidentally, Xbox Live's response to homophobia is a perfect example of 
> how to not solve these kinds of problems. They simply made it so users 
> couldn't express their sexual orientation on their profiles. 'Cos, you 
> know, the best way to make gay users feel like comfortable and welcome 
> members of a community is to force them back in the closet for their own 
> protection…
> 
> --  
> Tom Morris
> 
> 
> ___
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> Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap


thanks & cheers,
Claudia
koltzenb...@w4w.net


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[Gendergap] New WikiProject Feminism Articles from WSG students

[Kissling, Elizabeth]

Now that there's room in the discussion for a new topic :-), I'd like to ask 
for help from some of you experienced Wikipedians in bringing a new group of 
women to the project. 

I'm a professor of Women's & Gender Studies, and for their senior capstone 
project, I've had a group of WSG majors students working on WP articles for the 
WikiProject Feminism. They've selected articles from the list of requested 
articles and stubs from WP:Feminism 
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Feminism), and have been 
researching, writing, and revising in their sandbox pages for the last few 
weeks. We're planning to post the articles in class today (a few make take a 
little longer, but this week for sure -- it's the last week of the term). 

It's been a wonderful experience for them, learning about how to present 
research for the Wikipedia audience compared to an academic audience, and to 
make feminist ideas accessible to larger audience, and more. It's given them a 
new appreciation of Wikipedia -- most of their professors tell them not to use 
it, so it was a big shock the first day of class when I announced we'd spend 
the quarter working on it. It's also been very challenging for many, especially 
the technical aspects of working with wiki markup and Wikipedia. 

Will those of you who volunteer in this area help shepherd them into the fold? 
I'm not expecting my students to be treated with kid gloves, but we've watched 
a few edit wars, and they're nervous. As with any group of students, some are 
stronger writers than others, and some of these pieces will need more help than 
others. Here's the list of articles that will soon be added/updated:


American women's firsts
Feminism in Thailand
Feminism & BDSM
Metaformic theory
Women's shelters
Genderfuck
Feminist pedagogy

Thank you for the work that you, and for any help you can provide to my 
students. 
-- 
Elizabeth A. Kissling, Ph.D.  
Professor 
Department of Communication Studies
Women's and Gender Studies Program
Eastern Washington University
Cheney, WA  99004-2409
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Re: [Gendergap] New WikiProject Feminism Articles from WSG students

[Caroline Becker]

This is an awesome project :) I would be really interested in reading your
feedback on the experiment, both from you and your students. I'm especially
interested in knowing how you dealt with NPOV.

I think it is a nice idea to make them start on their sandbox pages,
because it allows them to be familiar with Wiki syntax before dealing with
the community. It is also nice to have them work on separate articles.

Good luck with your project and if you think one of the article is good
enough, maybe I'll find time to translate it in French :)

Caroline


2012/6/4 Kissling, Elizabeth 

> Now that there's room in the discussion for a new topic :-), I'd like to
> ask for help from some of you experienced Wikipedians in bringing a new
> group of women to the project.
>
> I'm a professor of Women's & Gender Studies, and for their senior capstone
> project, I've had a group of WSG majors students working on WP articles for
> the WikiProject Feminism. They've selected articles from the list of
> requested articles and stubs from WP:Feminism (
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Feminism), and have
> been researching, writing, and revising in their sandbox pages for the last
> few weeks. We're planning to post the articles in class today (a few make
> take a little longer, but this week for sure -- it's the last week of the
> term).
>
> It's been a wonderful experience for them, learning about how to present
> research for the Wikipedia audience compared to an academic audience, and
> to make feminist ideas accessible to larger audience, and more. It's given
> them a new appreciation of Wikipedia -- most of their professors tell them
> not to use it, so it was a big shock the first day of class when I
> announced we'd spend the quarter working on it. It's also been very
> challenging for many, especially the technical aspects of working with wiki
> markup and Wikipedia.
>
> Will those of you who volunteer in this area help shepherd them into the
> fold? I'm not expecting my students to be treated with kid gloves, but
> we've watched a few edit wars, and they're nervous. As with any group of
> students, some are stronger writers than others, and some of these pieces
> will need more help than others. Here's the list of articles that will soon
> be added/updated:
>
>
> American women's firsts
> Feminism in Thailand
> Feminism & BDSM
> Metaformic theory
> Women's shelters
> Genderfuck
> Feminist pedagogy
>
> Thank you for the work that you, and for any help you can provide to my
> students.
> --
> Elizabeth A. Kissling, Ph.D.  
> Professor
> Department of Communication Studies
> Women's and Gender Studies Program
> Eastern Washington University
> Cheney, WA  99004-2409
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Re: [Gendergap] New WikiProject Feminism Articles from WSG students

[Gobonobo]

This is excellent.  I look forward to seeing these articles go live and 
would be happy to help.  Did you know about the Wikipedia Education 
Program 
?  It 
might be a little late in this course, but for future reference the 
United States Education Program 
 connects US universities 
with Wikipedia editors that can assist with class projects.


Cheers,
Gobonobo

On 06/04/2012 08:29 AM, Kissling, Elizabeth wrote:

Now that there's room in the discussion for a new topic :-), I'd like to ask 
for help from some of you experienced Wikipedians in bringing a new group of 
women to the project.

I'm a professor of Women's&  Gender Studies, and for their senior capstone 
project, I've had a group of WSG majors students working on WP articles for the 
WikiProject Feminism. They've selected articles from the list of requested articles 
and stubs from WP:Feminism 
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Feminism), and have been 
researching, writing, and revising in their sandbox pages for the last few weeks. 
We're planning to post the articles in class today (a few make take a little 
longer, but this week for sure -- it's the last week of the term).

It's been a wonderful experience for them, learning about how to present 
research for the Wikipedia audience compared to an academic audience, and to 
make feminist ideas accessible to larger audience, and more. It's given them a 
new appreciation of Wikipedia -- most of their professors tell them not to use 
it, so it was a big shock the first day of class when I announced we'd spend 
the quarter working on it. It's also been very challenging for many, especially 
the technical aspects of working with wiki markup and Wikipedia.

Will those of you who volunteer in this area help shepherd them into the fold? 
I'm not expecting my students to be treated with kid gloves, but we've watched 
a few edit wars, and they're nervous. As with any group of students, some are 
stronger writers than others, and some of these pieces will need more help than 
others. Here's the list of articles that will soon be added/updated:


American women's firsts
Feminism in Thailand
Feminism&  BDSM
Metaformic theory
Women's shelters
Genderfuck
Feminist pedagogy

Thank you for the work that you, and for any help you can provide to my 
students.


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Re: [Gendergap] it seems to me... Re: Guns, Girls and Games

[Sarah Stierch]

On 6/4/12 5:29 AM, koltzenb...@w4w.net wrote:

hi @all,

it seems to me the WP needs a mailingslist or other outlet for sex issues of 
all shades
since there seem to be quite a few who think it belongs in the gendergap list - 
exclusively...?


I do believe that sexual harassment directed towards women does effect 
the gender gap - perhaps not so much, but, after my Women and Wikimedia 
Survey almost half of women did state that they were assaulted or 
harassed on Wikipedia in some context and almost half said no, that's 
more than women said a sexualized environment was impacting them. For 
me, this is more deterimental then the accidental stumbling upon of porn 
on Wikipedia. There have been moments in my Wikipedia-existence that I 
have wanted to leave the community due to harassment, and I know I'm 
surely not the only woman on this list who feels that way. I always like 
reading about how people are handling situations like this on the 
internet, as I can only learn from them.


So, whether it's deterring current or future editors, I do think it's 
more relevant than pornography at this time.


But, perhaps I'm wrong!

-Sarah

Claudia On Mon, 4 Jun 2012 12:13:42 +0100, Tom Morris wrote




The BBC broadcast a half hour documentary on Saturday called 'Guns, Girls
and Games' which deals with sexual harassment in video games.



Two of the women interviewed in the programme run websites which try to
highlight harassment and misogyny in online games:




They also briefly discussed the homophobia and racism present in some
gaming communities.

Incidentally, Xbox Live's response to homophobia is a perfect example of
how to not solve these kinds of problems. They simply made it so users
couldn't express their sexual orientation on their profiles. 'Cos, you
know, the best way to make gay users feel like comfortable and welcome
members of a community is to force them back in the closet for their own 
protection…

--
Tom Morris


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thanks&  cheers,
Claudia
koltzenb...@w4w.net


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*/Wikimedia Foundation Community Fellow/*
>>Mind the gap! Support Wikipedia women's outreach: donate today 
<<
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Re: [Gendergap] it seems to me... Re: Guns, Girls and Games

[Nathan]

On Mon, Jun 4, 2012 at 1:30 PM, Sarah Stierch wrote:

>
> I do believe that sexual harassment directed towards women does effect the
> gender gap - perhaps not so much, but, after my Women and Wikimedia Survey
> almost half of women did state that they were assaulted or harassed on
> Wikipedia in some context and almost half said no, that's more than women
> said a sexualized environment was impacting them. For me, this is more
> deterimental then the accidental stumbling upon of porn on Wikipedia. There
> have been moments in my Wikipedia-existence that I have wanted to leave the
> community due to harassment, and I know I'm surely not the only woman on
> this list who feels that way. I always like reading about how people are
> handling situations like this on the internet, as I can only learn from
> them.
>
> So, whether it's deterring current or future editors, I do think it's more
> relevant than pornography at this time.
>
> But, perhaps I'm wrong!
>
> -Sarah
>
>
>
In the context of Wikipedia editing, what does it mean to have been
"assaulted"?

~Nathan
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Re: [Gendergap] Nuremberg: lesbian wikipedia edit-a-thon workshop Re: So what have you been working on lately article wise as a woman or about women?

[Sarah Stierch]

On 5/31/12 11:45 PM, koltzenb...@w4w.net wrote:

Hi Sarah, hi @all,

thank you, Sarah, for this new thread
and thank you for sharing your activitities with us, I particularly like the 
teahouse :-)


Yeah! Glad you like the Teahouse. I can't wait to share the data with 
people and explore more ways to get it in the hands of women who need 
help editing!



at the annual meeting that picks up a 1920s Berlin tradition of lesbians who 
meet over the extended
weekend of Whitsuntide, we met in Nuremberg (city of human rights) this year 
for another fabulous self-
organized non-commercial bunch of worshops, plenary sessions, cultural 
programme and a manifestation in
downtown Nuremberg - and all of this in 90% barrier-free arrangements, one of 
the acknowledged hallmarks
of this meeting, called "LFT" (Lesben-Fruehlings-Treffen, lesbian spring 
meetings)


I love how you always share information about these gatherings. I do 
think that German lesbians surely must be the most active when it comes 
to intellectual gatherings, merely based on all the activities you share 
with us.



for the first time, a Wikipedia workshop was held (initiated by me and 
spontaneously co-moderated by a
visually-impaired translesbian colleague), with 8 participants


Wow. I'd love to learn more about how a visually impaired translesbian 
participated and what she shared about editing Wikipedia.




for a short round-up of what "Lesbenfruehling" meetings are doing to promote 
transparency
and openness also in other respects:
the meeting also included a panel discussion on the current situation for 
lesbians in neighbouring countries
like Croatia (to be joining the EU in July 2013), Poland (EU member since 
2004), Hungary (EU member since
2007) and Russia (member country of the Council of Europe http://www.coe.int/ 
that is human rights-
related), with Poland clearly on the upside, Croatia almost, and Russia and 
Hungary on servere downsides,
with Russian regional parliaments having introduced explicitly homo- and 
transphobic bills that we are
fighting against in international solidarity. By way of an example, our panel 
speakers from Croatia belong to
the team who form the lesbian feminist mixed choir "Le Zbor" (www.lezbor.com) 
and the last song of their
evening programme was from Russia and sung in Russian. We also had workshops 
dedicated more
specifically to the situation in Russia and Hungary and in Germany, e.g. on an 
initiative to finally put up a
specifically lesbian memorial stone on the site of the former concentration 
camp Ravensbrueck that was
women only. At the downtown rally we read out the names of known lesbian 
individuals that died because
of persecution during the Nazi regime (i.e. those who could not or did not want 
to leave the country early
enough in those years).


Wow, sounds really moving and powerful the work that people are aiming 
towards. The unification of these womyn is pretty amazing!




this is just to give you an example of how LFT meetings work on a culture of 
openness that I think is close to
what Wikipedia is aiming at, too,


Really great stuff. Thanks for sharing as always Claudia!

-Sarah

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[Gendergap] Awards/Merit badges/Barnstars in your language Wikipedia?

[Sarah Stierch]

Hi everyone,

As many of you know, Wikipedians often award each other 
barnstars/awards/medals for a job well done. We have a few that we 
developed over the year for contributions related to the gender gap and 
women's subjects:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Feminism/Resources#Awards

I often want to award women who edit other language Wikipedias similar 
awards, but, due to my own language barrier I have a hard time finding 
if those types of awards exist.


Does your home Wikipedia have similar awards?

-Sarah

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Re: [Gendergap] Thanks for support for WGS students

[Kissling, Elizabeth]

On 6/4/12 10:18 AM, "gendergap-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org"
 wrote:
>Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2012 15:44:06 +0200
>From: Caroline Becker 
>To: Increasing female participation in Wikimedia projects
>   
>Subject: Re: [Gendergap] New WikiProject Feminism Articles from WSG
>   students
>This is an awesome project :) I would be really interested in reading your
>feedback on the experiment, both from you and your students. I'm
>especially
>interested in knowing how you dealt with NPOV.

Thank you, Caroline. That proved to be a really stimulating part of the
course for all of us. Since our small WGS program doesn't have a feminist
methodology course, I decided to incorporate that into the capstone, and
assigned Joey Sprague's _Feminist Methodologies for Critical Researchers_
along side relevant Wikipedia policy and instruction pages about NPOV, no
original research, etc. It lead to many productive class discussions about
epistemology, the nature of research, etc. I think I'll eventually prepare
a conference presentation (maybe an article?) about it.

-EAK

>Message: 4
>Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2012 10:15:01 -0500
>From: Gobonobo 
>To: Increasing female participation in Wikimedia projects
>   
>Subject: Re: [Gendergap] New WikiProject Feminism Articles from WSG
>   students
>
>This is excellent.  I look forward to seeing these articles go live and
>would be happy to help.  Did you know about the Wikipedia Education
>Program 
>?  It
>might be a little late in this course, but for future reference the
>United States Education Program
> connects US universities
>with Wikipedia editors that can assist with class projects.

Thank you, Gobonobo. I did make contact with the Education Program before
the term started, but between our location and timing -- my school is one
of the few U.S. holdouts on  the quarter system (three ten-week terms,
from late September to mid-June) -- it wasn't possible to find an
ambassador available to work with us. Possibly next year -- I'm scheduled
to teach this course again in the spring term of 2013, and even though
we're not *quite* finished, the Wikipedia project feels like a success.

-EAK


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Re: [Gendergap] Nuremberg: lesbian wikipedia edit-a-thon workshop Re: So what have you been working on lately article wise as a woman or about women?

[Sarah Stierch]

On 5/31/12 11:45 PM, koltzenb...@w4w.net wrote:

Hi Sarah, hi @all,

thank you, Sarah, for this new thread
and thank you for sharing your activitities with us, I particularly like the 
teahouse :-)


Yeah! Glad you like the Teahouse. I can't wait to share the data with 
people and explore more ways to get it in the hands of women who need 
help editing!



at the annual meeting that picks up a 1920s Berlin tradition of lesbians who 
meet over the extended
weekend of Whitsuntide, we met in Nuremberg (city of human rights) this year 
for another fabulous self-
organized non-commercial bunch of worshops, plenary sessions, cultural 
programme and a manifestation in
downtown Nuremberg - and all of this in 90% barrier-free arrangements, one of 
the acknowledged hallmarks
of this meeting, called "LFT" (Lesben-Fruehlings-Treffen, lesbian spring 
meetings)


I love how you always share information about these gatherings. I do 
think that German lesbians surely must be the most active when it comes 
to intellectual gatherings, merely based on all the activities you share 
with us.



for the first time, a Wikipedia workshop was held (initiated by me and 
spontaneously co-moderated by a
visually-impaired translesbian colleague), with 8 participants


Wow. I'd love to learn more about how a visually impaired translesbian 
participated and what she shared about editing Wikipedia.




for a short round-up of what "Lesbenfruehling" meetings are doing to promote 
transparency
and openness also in other respects:
the meeting also included a panel discussion on the current situation for 
lesbians in neighbouring countries
like Croatia (to be joining the EU in July 2013), Poland (EU member since 
2004), Hungary (EU member since
2007) and Russia (member country of the Council of Europe http://www.coe.int/ 
that is human rights-
related), with Poland clearly on the upside, Croatia almost, and Russia and 
Hungary on servere downsides,
with Russian regional parliaments having introduced explicitly homo- and 
transphobic bills that we are
fighting against in international solidarity. By way of an example, our panel 
speakers from Croatia belong to
the team who form the lesbian feminist mixed choir "Le Zbor" (www.lezbor.com) 
and the last song of their
evening programme was from Russia and sung in Russian. We also had workshops 
dedicated more
specifically to the situation in Russia and Hungary and in Germany, e.g. on an 
initiative to finally put up a
specifically lesbian memorial stone on the site of the former concentration 
camp Ravensbrueck that was
women only. At the downtown rally we read out the names of known lesbian 
individuals that died because
of persecution during the Nazi regime (i.e. those who could not or did not want 
to leave the country early
enough in those years).


Wow, sounds really moving and powerful the work that people are aiming 
towards. The unification of these womyn is pretty amazing!




this is just to give you an example of how LFT meetings work on a culture of 
openness that I think is close to
what Wikipedia is aiming at, too,


Really great stuff. Thanks for sharing as always Claudia!

-Sarah

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>>Mind the gap! Support Wikipedia women's outreach: donate today 
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Re: [Gendergap] Nuremberg: lesbian wikipedia edit-a-thon workshop Re: So what have you been working on lately article wise as a woman or about women?

[Sarah Stierch]

On 5/31/12 11:45 PM, koltzenb...@w4w.net wrote:

Hi Sarah, hi @all,

thank you, Sarah, for this new thread
and thank you for sharing your activitities with us, I particularly like the 
teahouse :-)


Yeah! Glad you like the Teahouse. I can't wait to share the data with 
people and explore more ways to get it in the hands of women who need 
help editing!



at the annual meeting that picks up a 1920s Berlin tradition of lesbians who 
meet over the extended
weekend of Whitsuntide, we met in Nuremberg (city of human rights) this year 
for another fabulous self-
organized non-commercial bunch of worshops, plenary sessions, cultural 
programme and a manifestation in
downtown Nuremberg - and all of this in 90% barrier-free arrangements, one of 
the acknowledged hallmarks
of this meeting, called "LFT" (Lesben-Fruehlings-Treffen, lesbian spring 
meetings)


I love how you always share information about these gatherings. I do 
think that German lesbians surely must be the most active when it comes 
to intellectual gatherings, merely based on all the activities you share 
with us.



for the first time, a Wikipedia workshop was held (initiated by me and 
spontaneously co-moderated by a
visually-impaired translesbian colleague), with 8 participants


Wow. I'd love to learn more about how a visually impaired translesbian 
participated and what she shared about editing Wikipedia.



specifically to the situation in Russia and Hungary and in Germany, e.g. on an 
initiative to finally put up a
specifically lesbian memorial stone on the site of the former concentration 
camp Ravensbrueck that was
women only. At the downtown rally we read out the names of known lesbian 
individuals that died because
of persecution during the Nazi regime (i.e. those who could not or did not want 
to leave the country early
enough in those years).


Wow, sounds really moving and powerful the work that people are aiming 
towards. The unification of these womyn is pretty amazing!




this is just to give you an example of how LFT meetings work on a culture of 
openness that I think is close to
what Wikipedia is aiming at, too,


Really great stuff. Thanks for sharing as always Claudia!

-Sarah

--
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*/Wikimedia Foundation Community Fellow/*
>>Mind the gap! Support Wikipedia women's outreach: donate today 
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Re: [Gendergap] New WikiProject Feminism Articles from WSG students

[Sarah Stierch]

Thank you for sharing your work with the mailing list Elizabeth.

Do you have any sense, from your students, on if they will "stick 
around" as future editors? We often see a drop off with students from 
education programs, and I'd love to know if your students have interest 
in continuing their contributions, if there is anything that they think 
/would/ make them want to continue or what would deter them from 
continuous contributions.


I'm adding all of these articles to my watch list!

-Sarah



On 6/4/12 6:29 AM, Kissling, Elizabeth wrote:

Now that there's room in the discussion for a new topic :-), I'd like to ask 
for help from some of you experienced Wikipedians in bringing a new group of 
women to the project.

I'm a professor of Women's&  Gender Studies, and for their senior capstone 
project, I've had a group of WSG majors students working on WP articles for the 
WikiProject Feminism. They've selected articles from the list of requested articles 
and stubs from WP:Feminism 
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Feminism), and have been 
researching, writing, and revising in their sandbox pages for the last few weeks. 
We're planning to post the articles in class today (a few make take a little 
longer, but this week for sure -- it's the last week of the term).

It's been a wonderful experience for them, learning about how to present 
research for the Wikipedia audience compared to an academic audience, and to 
make feminist ideas accessible to larger audience, and more. It's given them a 
new appreciation of Wikipedia -- most of their professors tell them not to use 
it, so it was a big shock the first day of class when I announced we'd spend 
the quarter working on it. It's also been very challenging for many, especially 
the technical aspects of working with wiki markup and Wikipedia.

Will those of you who volunteer in this area help shepherd them into the fold? 
I'm not expecting my students to be treated with kid gloves, but we've watched 
a few edit wars, and they're nervous. As with any group of students, some are 
stronger writers than others, and some of these pieces will need more help than 
others. Here's the list of articles that will soon be added/updated:


American women's firsts
Feminism in Thailand
Feminism&  BDSM
Metaformic theory
Women's shelters
Genderfuck
Feminist pedagogy

Thank you for the work that you, and for any help you can provide to my 
students.



--
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*/Wikimedia Foundation Community Fellow/*
>>Mind the gap! Support Wikipedia women's outreach: donate today 
<<
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Re: [Gendergap] it seems to me... Re: Guns, Girls and Games

[Risker]

On 4 June 2012 13:34, Nathan  wrote:

>
>
> On Mon, Jun 4, 2012 at 1:30 PM, Sarah Stierch wrote:
>
>>
>> I do believe that sexual harassment directed towards women does effect
>> the gender gap - perhaps not so much, but, after my Women and Wikimedia
>> Survey almost half of women did state that they were assaulted or harassed
>> on Wikipedia in some context and almost half said no, that's more than
>> women said a sexualized environment was impacting them. For me, this is
>> more deterimental then the accidental stumbling upon of porn on Wikipedia.
>> There have been moments in my Wikipedia-existence that I have wanted to
>> leave the community due to harassment, and I know I'm surely not the only
>> woman on this list who feels that way. I always like reading about how
>> people are handling situations like this on the internet, as I can only
>> learn from them.
>>
>> So, whether it's deterring current or future editors, I do think it's
>> more relevant than pornography at this time.
>>
>> But, perhaps I'm wrong!
>>
>> -Sarah
>>
>>
>>
> In the context of Wikipedia editing, what does it mean to have been
> "assaulted"?
>
>
That's a good question, Nathan.  In my workplace, we classify assaults as
physical and verbal; I suppose from the WMF-project perspective, we'd be
looking at (mainly) verbal assaults, either onwiki or via email.

There have been some genuine, documented stalking situations (in the true
sense of the word, with off-wiki contacts that include phone calls and
sometimes even a physical presence), but they are presumably quite rare.

I'd also say that neither are limited to being directed at female users;
however, particularly given the small number of women editing on the
projects, I suspect that they are disproportionately at the receiving end
of such behaviour.  I have no evidence that this is the case, though.

Risker/Anne
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Re: [Gendergap] New WikiProject Feminism Articles from WSG students

[Kevin Gorman]

Thanks for sharing this - it sounds like the exact type of thing that
has most excited me about the education program.  I just finished a
miniature wikibreak, but now that I am back, I have watchlisted the
relevant articles and will try to guide any problems that come up to
productive resolution :).

I don't know what ambassador-type people we have up there, but I'd
also encourage you to participate in the official education program in
future terms.


User:Kevin Gorman

On Mon, Jun 4, 2012 at 12:53 PM, Sarah Stierch  wrote:
> Thank you for sharing your work with the mailing list Elizabeth.
>
> Do you have any sense, from your students, on if they will "stick around" as
> future editors? We often see a drop off with students from education
> programs, and I'd love to know if your students have interest in continuing
> their contributions, if there is anything that they think would make them
> want to continue or what would deter them from continuous contributions.
>
> I'm adding all of these articles to my watch list!
>
> -Sarah
>
>
>
>
> On 6/4/12 6:29 AM, Kissling, Elizabeth wrote:
>
> Now that there's room in the discussion for a new topic :-), I'd like to ask
> for help from some of you experienced Wikipedians in bringing a new group of
> women to the project.
>
> I'm a professor of Women's & Gender Studies, and for their senior capstone
> project, I've had a group of WSG majors students working on WP articles for
> the WikiProject Feminism. They've selected articles from the list of
> requested articles and stubs from WP:Feminism
> (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Feminism), and have been
> researching, writing, and revising in their sandbox pages for the last few
> weeks. We're planning to post the articles in class today (a few make take a
> little longer, but this week for sure -- it's the last week of the term).
>
> It's been a wonderful experience for them, learning about how to present
> research for the Wikipedia audience compared to an academic audience, and to
> make feminist ideas accessible to larger audience, and more. It's given them
> a new appreciation of Wikipedia -- most of their professors tell them not to
> use it, so it was a big shock the first day of class when I announced we'd
> spend the quarter working on it. It's also been very challenging for many,
> especially the technical aspects of working with wiki markup and Wikipedia.
>
> Will those of you who volunteer in this area help shepherd them into the
> fold? I'm not expecting my students to be treated with kid gloves, but we've
> watched a few edit wars, and they're nervous. As with any group of students,
> some are stronger writers than others, and some of these pieces will need
> more help than others. Here's the list of articles that will soon be
> added/updated:
>
>
> American women's firsts
> Feminism in Thailand
> Feminism & BDSM
> Metaformic theory
> Women's shelters
> Genderfuck
> Feminist pedagogy
>
> Thank you for the work that you, and for any help you can provide to my
> students.
>
>
>
> --
> Sarah Stierch
> Wikimedia Foundation Community Fellow
>>>Mind the gap! Support Wikipedia women's outreach: donate today<<
>
> ___
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>

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Re: [Gendergap] it seems to me... Re: Guns, Girls and Games

[Nathan]

On Mon, Jun 4, 2012 at 3:59 PM, Risker  wrote:

>
>
> On 4 June 2012 13:34, Nathan  wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 4, 2012 at 1:30 PM, Sarah Stierch wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I do believe that sexual harassment directed towards women does effect
>>> the gender gap - perhaps not so much, but, after my Women and Wikimedia
>>> Survey almost half of women did state that they were assaulted or harassed
>>> on Wikipedia in some context and almost half said no, that's more than
>>> women said a sexualized environment was impacting them. For me, this is
>>> more deterimental then the accidental stumbling upon of porn on Wikipedia.
>>> There have been moments in my Wikipedia-existence that I have wanted to
>>> leave the community due to harassment, and I know I'm surely not the only
>>> woman on this list who feels that way. I always like reading about how
>>> people are handling situations like this on the internet, as I can only
>>> learn from them.
>>>
>>> So, whether it's deterring current or future editors, I do think it's
>>> more relevant than pornography at this time.
>>>
>>> But, perhaps I'm wrong!
>>>
>>> -Sarah
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> In the context of Wikipedia editing, what does it mean to have been
>> "assaulted"?
>>
>>
> That's a good question, Nathan.  In my workplace, we classify assaults as
> physical and verbal; I suppose from the WMF-project perspective, we'd be
> looking at (mainly) verbal assaults, either onwiki or via email.
>
> There have been some genuine, documented stalking situations (in the true
> sense of the word, with off-wiki contacts that include phone calls and
> sometimes even a physical presence), but they are presumably quite rare.
>
> I'd also say that neither are limited to being directed at female users;
> however, particularly given the small number of women editing on the
> projects, I suspect that they are disproportionately at the receiving end
> of such behaviour.  I have no evidence that this is the case, though.
>
> Risker/Anne
>
>
Ok. To ask a follow-up, and I'm sorry if this is a dense question but I
genuinely don't have the answer, what is an example of a verbal assault? I
understand the wiki-parameters of harassment, and can recognize insults and
rude behavior etc., but I'm just not sure what I would classify as an
assault among purely text-based exchanges.

~Nathan
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Re: [Gendergap] it seems to me... Re: Guns, Girls and Games

[Risker]

On 4 June 2012 16:11, Nathan  wrote:

>
>
> On Mon, Jun 4, 2012 at 3:59 PM, Risker  wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On 4 June 2012 13:34, Nathan  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jun 4, 2012 at 1:30 PM, Sarah Stierch 
>>> wrote:
>>>

 I do believe that sexual harassment directed towards women does effect
 the gender gap - perhaps not so much, but, after my Women and Wikimedia
 Survey almost half of women did state that they were assaulted or harassed
 on Wikipedia in some context and almost half said no, that's more than
 women said a sexualized environment was impacting them. For me, this is
 more deterimental then the accidental stumbling upon of porn on Wikipedia.
 There have been moments in my Wikipedia-existence that I have wanted to
 leave the community due to harassment, and I know I'm surely not the only
 woman on this list who feels that way. I always like reading about how
 people are handling situations like this on the internet, as I can only
 learn from them.

 So, whether it's deterring current or future editors, I do think it's
 more relevant than pornography at this time.

 But, perhaps I'm wrong!

 -Sarah



>>> In the context of Wikipedia editing, what does it mean to have been
>>> "assaulted"?
>>>
>>>
>> That's a good question, Nathan.  In my workplace, we classify assaults as
>> physical and verbal; I suppose from the WMF-project perspective, we'd be
>> looking at (mainly) verbal assaults, either onwiki or via email.
>>
>> There have been some genuine, documented stalking situations (in the true
>> sense of the word, with off-wiki contacts that include phone calls and
>> sometimes even a physical presence), but they are presumably quite rare.
>>
>> I'd also say that neither are limited to being directed at female users;
>> however, particularly given the small number of women editing on the
>> projects, I suspect that they are disproportionately at the receiving end
>> of such behaviour.  I have no evidence that this is the case, though.
>>
>> Risker/Anne
>>
>>
> Ok. To ask a follow-up, and I'm sorry if this is a dense question but I
> genuinely don't have the answer, what is an example of a verbal assault? I
> understand the wiki-parameters of harassment, and can recognize insults and
> rude behavior etc., but I'm just not sure what I would classify as an
> assault among purely text-based exchanges.
>
>

I'd suggest it would be blatant personal attacks as opposed to the lower
level harassment.  I can remember once reading "You're so useless, I
wouldn't even clean the toilet with you", and was only sad that another
admin beat me to the block button for that one.  I remember when we were
taking our "safe workplace training", the educators said that verbal
assaults left the victim feeling essentially the same as if they had been
physically attacked, except for the physical injury: that is, humiliated,
powerless, shocked and "beaten".  They described it as "the way you'd feel
if someone slapped your face, except that your cheek doesn't hurt".

Maybe others could give some examples of where they'd say verbal aggression
went beyond annoying into what they might feel is verbal assault?

Risker/Anne
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Re: [Gendergap] it seems to me... Re: Guns, Girls and Games

[Alison Cassidy]

On Jun 4, 2012, at 1:11 PM, Nathan wrote:

> On Mon, Jun 4, 2012 at 3:59 PM, Risker  wrote:
> 
> 
> On 4 June 2012 13:34, Nathan  wrote:
> 
> In the context of Wikipedia editing, what does it mean to have been 
> "assaulted"?
> 
> 
> That's a good question, Nathan.  In my workplace, we classify assaults as 
> physical and verbal; I suppose from the WMF-project perspective, we'd be 
> looking at (mainly) verbal assaults, either onwiki or via email.  
> 
> There have been some genuine, documented stalking situations (in the true 
> sense of the word, with off-wiki contacts that include phone calls and 
> sometimes even a physical presence), but they are presumably quite rare. 
> 
> I'd also say that neither are limited to being directed at female users; 
> however, particularly given the small number of women editing on the 
> projects, I suspect that they are disproportionately at the receiving end of 
> such behaviour.  I have no evidence that this is the case, though.
> 
> Risker/Anne
> 
> 
> Ok. To ask a follow-up, and I'm sorry if this is a dense question but I 
> genuinely don't have the answer, what is an example of a verbal assault? I 
> understand the wiki-parameters of harassment, and can recognize insults and 
> rude behavior etc., but I'm just not sure what I would classify as an assault 
> among purely text-based exchanges.

Hi Nathan,

Here's a somewhat extreme example of what could be called a 'verbal 
assault' based on one's gender;


http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AWondergay&diff=401000993&oldid=400968745

I kept this one bookmarked because of the 'wow' factor, but there are 
dozens and dozens of others.

-- Allie (User:Alison)
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Re: [Gendergap] New WikiProject Feminism Articles from WSG students

[Ryan Kaldari]

Just a quick word of warning... you should expect interference at the " 
Women's shelter" article from the highly active "men's rights" activists 
on Wikipedia. They have been pushing the point of view that women's 
shelters are discriminatory against men, that the women's shelter 
movement is part of a conspiracy to hide the "true statistics" about 
male victims of domestic violence, and that women's shelters are just 
scams to get government money, etc. If the students run into problems, 
just have them drop a message on the WikiProject Feminism talk page.


Ryan Kaldari


On 6/4/12 6:29 AM, Kissling, Elizabeth wrote:

Now that there's room in the discussion for a new topic :-), I'd like to ask 
for help from some of you experienced Wikipedians in bringing a new group of 
women to the project.

I'm a professor of Women's&  Gender Studies, and for their senior capstone 
project, I've had a group of WSG majors students working on WP articles for the 
WikiProject Feminism. They've selected articles from the list of requested articles 
and stubs from WP:Feminism 
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Feminism), and have been 
researching, writing, and revising in their sandbox pages for the last few weeks. 
We're planning to post the articles in class today (a few make take a little 
longer, but this week for sure -- it's the last week of the term).

It's been a wonderful experience for them, learning about how to present 
research for the Wikipedia audience compared to an academic audience, and to 
make feminist ideas accessible to larger audience, and more. It's given them a 
new appreciation of Wikipedia -- most of their professors tell them not to use 
it, so it was a big shock the first day of class when I announced we'd spend 
the quarter working on it. It's also been very challenging for many, especially 
the technical aspects of working with wiki markup and Wikipedia.

Will those of you who volunteer in this area help shepherd them into the fold? 
I'm not expecting my students to be treated with kid gloves, but we've watched 
a few edit wars, and they're nervous. As with any group of students, some are 
stronger writers than others, and some of these pieces will need more help than 
others. Here's the list of articles that will soon be added/updated:


American women's firsts
Feminism in Thailand
Feminism&  BDSM
Metaformic theory
Women's shelters
Genderfuck
Feminist pedagogy

Thank you for the work that you, and for any help you can provide to my 
students.
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Re: [Gendergap] it seems to me... Re: Guns, Girls and Games

[Emily Monroe]

I think, in this context, "verbal" means "using words to communicate", not
"using speech to communicate". So, verbal assault would be "assault with
words", not "assault with speech".

From,
Emily


On Mon, Jun 4, 2012 at 3:27 PM, Alison Cassidy  wrote:

> On Jun 4, 2012, at 1:11 PM, Nathan wrote:
>
> On Mon, Jun 4, 2012 at 3:59 PM, Risker  wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On 4 June 2012 13:34, Nathan  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> In the context of Wikipedia editing, what does it mean to have been
>>> "assaulted"?
>>>
>>>
>> That's a good question, Nathan.  In my workplace, we classify assaults as
>> physical and verbal; I suppose from the WMF-project perspective, we'd be
>> looking at (mainly) verbal assaults, either onwiki or via email.
>>
>> There have been some genuine, documented stalking situations (in the true
>> sense of the word, with off-wiki contacts that include phone calls and
>> sometimes even a physical presence), but they are presumably quite rare.
>>
>> I'd also say that neither are limited to being directed at female users;
>> however, particularly given the small number of women editing on the
>> projects, I suspect that they are disproportionately at the receiving end
>> of such behaviour.  I have no evidence that this is the case, though.
>>
>> Risker/Anne
>>
>>
> Ok. To ask a follow-up, and I'm sorry if this is a dense question but I
> genuinely don't have the answer, what is an example of a verbal assault? I
> understand the wiki-parameters of harassment, and can recognize insults and
> rude behavior etc., but I'm just not sure what I would classify as an
> assault among purely text-based exchanges.
>
>
> Hi Nathan,
>
> Here's a somewhat extreme example of what could be called a 'verbal
> assault' based on one's gender;
>
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AWondergay&diff=401000993&oldid=400968745
>
> I kept this one bookmarked because of the 'wow' factor, but there are
> dozens and dozens of others.
>
> -- Allie (User:Alison)
>
> ___
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[Gendergap] Men's_shelter Re: New WikiProject Feminism Articles from WSG students

[koltzenburg]

Hi Ryan

thank you for your message explaining how you see the situation that might be 
coming

what does everyone think about opening an article about "Men's shelter"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Men's_shelter ("Wikipedia does not have an article 
with this exact name. Please 
search for Men's shelter in Wikipedia to check for alternative titles or 
spellings.")

and use a few "male" user names to work on it seriously (there is quite a lot 
of facts to make known, I 
think), then see what happens

my2cents is that this would cost us not even three Guineas

any opinions?
cheers
Claudia

On Mon, 04 Jun 2012 14:12:46 -0700, Ryan Kaldari wrote
> Just a quick word of warning... you should expect interference at the " 
> Women's shelter" article from the highly active "men's rights" activists 
> on Wikipedia. They have been pushing the point of view that women's 
> shelters are discriminatory against men, that the women's shelter 
> movement is part of a conspiracy to hide the "true statistics" about 
> male victims of domestic violence, and that women's shelters are just 
> scams to get government money, etc. If the students run into problems, 
> just have them drop a message on the WikiProject Feminism talk page.
> 
> Ryan Kaldari
> 
> On 6/4/12 6:29 AM, Kissling, Elizabeth wrote:
> > Now that there's room in the discussion for a new topic :-), I'd like to 
> > ask for help from some of you 
experienced Wikipedians in bringing a new group of women to the project.
> >
> > I'm a professor of Women's&  Gender Studies, and for their senior capstone 
> > project, I've had a group of 
WSG majors students working on WP articles for the WikiProject Feminism. 
They've selected articles from 
the list of requested articles and stubs from WP:Feminism 
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Feminism), and have been 
researching, writing, and 
revising in their sandbox pages for the last few weeks. We're planning to post 
the articles in class today (a 
few make take a little longer, but this week for sure -- it's the last week of 
the term).
> >
> > It's been a wonderful experience for them, learning about how to present 
> > research for the Wikipedia 
audience compared to an academic audience, and to make feminist ideas 
accessible to larger audience, and 
more. It's given them a new appreciation of Wikipedia -- most of their 
professors tell them not to use it, so it 
was a big shock the first day of class when I announced we'd spend the quarter 
working on it. It's also been 
very challenging for many, especially the technical aspects of working with 
wiki markup and Wikipedia.
> >
> > Will those of you who volunteer in this area help shepherd them into the 
> > fold? I'm not expecting my 
students to be treated with kid gloves, but we've watched a few edit wars, and 
they're nervous. As with any 
group of students, some are stronger writers than others, and some of these 
pieces will need more help than 
others. Here's the list of articles that will soon be added/updated:
> >
> >
> > American women's firsts
> > Feminism in Thailand
> > Feminism&  BDSM
> > Metaformic theory
> > Women's shelters
> > Genderfuck
> > Feminist pedagogy
> >
> > Thank you for the work that you, and for any help you can provide to my 
> > students.


thanks & cheers,
Claudia
koltzenb...@w4w.net


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