Re: [VOTE] Release Apache Wave 0.4 based on RC3

[David Nalley]

On Thu, Jun 20, 2013 at 8:14 PM, Michael MacFadden
 wrote:
> Joe,
>
> Thanks for your comments. Can you clarify for us the PPMC comment. I think we 
> are a bit confused between the concepts of a top level project PMC, the 
> incubator IPMC, the PPMC you have mentioned, and piddling mentors. I don't 
> think we had ever discussed nominating a PPMC assuming that first p stands 
> for podling.
>
> I think we were under the inkers soon that the mentors were the management 
> committe for the podling. Is there a good document on this somewhere?
>
> ~Michael

See http://incubator.apache.org/guides/ppmc.html for more.

--David

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Re: [VOTE] Release Apache Wave 0.4 based on RC3

[Upayavira]

Committer = can change the code
PMC = project management committee
iPMC = incubator project management committee
PPMC = podlings project management committee

Only PMC members votes are binding. In the case of a podling, only
incubator PMC votes are binding. However, as you can consider the PPMC
as a PMC in training, their votes are considered important.

In Wave so far, all committers are also PPMC members, so Ali could have
just labelled folks 'PPMC' instead of 'committer' and Joe's concern
would have been addressed.

Upayavira


On Fri, Jun 21, 2013, at 01:14 AM, Michael MacFadden wrote:
> Joe,
> 
> Thanks for your comments. Can you clarify for us the PPMC comment. I
> think we are a bit confused between the concepts of a top level project
> PMC, the incubator IPMC, the PPMC you have mentioned, and piddling
> mentors. I don't think we had ever discussed nominating a PPMC assuming
> that first p stands for podling. 
> 
> I think we were under the inkers soon that the mentors were the
> management committe for the podling. Is there a good document on this
> somewhere?
> 
> ~Michael
> 
> On Jun 20, 2013, at 5:01 PM, Joe Brockmeier  wrote:
> 
> > I should have added: please do address the problems here and re-roll and
> > I will be sure to examine that release in a timely fashion. Don't let a
> > -1 discourage you, as most incubating projects have to go through a
> > learning curve. 
> > 
> > On Thu, Jun 20, 2013, at 06:59 PM, Joe Brockmeier wrote:
> >> Hi Ali, 
> >> 
> >> Comments inline. 
> >> 
> >> On Sat, Jun 15, 2013, at 05:24 PM, Ali Lown wrote:
> >> 
> >>> The result from the wave-dev vote can be found at:
> >>> https://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-wave-dev/201306.mbox/%3CCABRGrVfPOwN3E8N-uScruYbxdezpfZzAJHMp8dN%2BUfpF6s%2BDGw%40mail.gmail.com%3E
> >> 
> >> I find this slightly confusing as I expected at least 3 PPMC votes, but
> >> I guess Wave has opted for the committer == PPMC model? 
> >> 
> >>> Wave 0.4 RC3 artefacts are available at:
> >>> https://people.apache.org/~al/wave_rc/0.4-rc3/
> >>> Note: The checksums are SHA-512's
> >> 
> >> A couple of things:
> >> 
> >> - Preferably, you'd only include *one* set of artifacts to vote on. Am I
> >> voting on the zip, the bz2? I'm uncomfortable voting without checking
> >> out all the source releases as I have no way of knowing that the zip ==
> >> the bz2 release without inspecting both.
> >> 
> >> - Preferably, there'd be no binary release in the artifacts you're
> >> asking to have voted on. Convenience binaries are fine, but they're not
> >> an official release, so it'd be better not to include them with the
> >> files we're meant to be voting on. 
> >> 
> >> - I have to -1 this as there are several binary (.jar) files included in
> >> the release that don't belong in a source release. (under
> >> third_party/codegen/*) 
> >> 
> >> Best,
> >> 
> >> jzb
> >> -- 
> >> Joe Brockmeier
> >> j...@zonker.net
> >> Twitter: @jzb
> >> http://www.dissociatedpress.net/
> > 
> > 
> > Best,
> > 
> > jzb
> > -- 
> > Joe Brockmeier
> > j...@zonker.net
> > Twitter: @jzb
> > http://www.dissociatedpress.net/
> > 
> > -
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
> > 
> 
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Re: please follow through to publish doc changes

[David Crossley]

Mattmann, Chris A (398J) wrote:
> Hi David,
> 
> That's my bad. Having not published the site using the CMS since we
> switched over, I knew I had to read the docs again but hadn't. I
> fully intended to though.

Not only you. It is a common holdup.

There are various routes for editing, as explained at [1].
I take the quick way. With an SVN checkout, i edit the source and
commit, then wait a little, then
https://cms.apache.org/incubator/publish
look at the "diff" (reload if necessary until CMS catches up)
then publish.

I only build locally (via e.g. './build.sh') if i am doing
major edits/additions, or if the CMS is wedged which usually
means that someone has an xml error with their source edits.

The [1] does need some clarifications in that regard.

[1] http://incubator.apache.org/guides/website.html

Anyway, i did just now publish the backlog.

-David

> Anyways, sorry.
> 
> Cheers,
> Chris
> 
> ++
> Chris Mattmann, Ph.D.
> Senior Computer Scientist
> NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA
> Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246
> Email: chris.a.mattm...@nasa.gov
> WWW:  http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/
> ++
> Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department
> University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA
> ++
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: David Crossley 
> Reply-To: "general@incubator.apache.org" 
> Date: Thursday, June 20, 2013 7:11 PM
> To: "general@incubator.apache.org" 
> Subject: please follow through to publish doc changes
> 
> >The problem seems to be getting worse. Some people make
> >source changes to docs, but then do not follow through
> >to publish those changes via the CMS. Then other changes
> >bank up behind the logjam.
> >
> >http://incubator.apache.org/guides/website.html
> >
> >-David

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Re: please follow through to publish doc changes

[Mattmann, Chris A (398J)]

Hi David,

That's my bad. Having not published the site using the CMS since we
switched over, I knew I had to read the docs again but hadn't. I
fully intended to though.

Anyways, sorry.

Cheers,
Chris

++
Chris Mattmann, Ph.D.
Senior Computer Scientist
NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA
Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246
Email: chris.a.mattm...@nasa.gov
WWW:  http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/
++
Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department
University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA
++






-Original Message-
From: David Crossley 
Reply-To: "general@incubator.apache.org" 
Date: Thursday, June 20, 2013 7:11 PM
To: "general@incubator.apache.org" 
Subject: please follow through to publish doc changes

>The problem seems to be getting worse. Some people make
>source changes to docs, but then do not follow through
>to publish those changes via the CMS. Then other changes
>bank up behind the logjam.
>
>http://incubator.apache.org/guides/website.html
>
>-David
>
>-
>To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
>For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
>


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please follow through to publish doc changes

[David Crossley]

The problem seems to be getting worse. Some people make
source changes to docs, but then do not follow through
to publish those changes via the CMS. Then other changes
bank up behind the logjam.

http://incubator.apache.org/guides/website.html

-David

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Re: [MENTOR] Re: Missing Release Distribution in Clutch Status?

[David Crossley]

Mattmann, Chris A (398J) wrote:
> Hey Guys,
> 
> Sorry I missed this.
> 
> Real quick CC to general@i.a.o. I'm not an expert in the Clutch.
> IPMC peeps that know the clutch, Knox has a release in the dist
> area:
> 
> http://www.apache.org/dyn/closer.cgi/incubator/knox/
> 
> 
> (^^ for example the 0.2.0 release)
> 
> Can someone give us some insight as to why the clutch indicates
> we don't have a release in the distro area?

See the Knox entry in the "Other issues" section:
http://incubator.apache.org/clutch.html#other

It is because Knox is missing the required file naming convention:
http://incubator.apache.org/clutch.html#h-hasRelease
So the cron job that scans for releases does not find it.

-David

> Thank you!
> 
> Cheers,
> Chris
> 
> ++
> Chris Mattmann, Ph.D.
> Senior Computer Scientist
> NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA
> Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246
> Email: chris.a.mattm...@nasa.gov
> WWW:  http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/
> ++
> Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department
> University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA
> ++
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: larry mccay 
> Reply-To: "d...@knox.incubator.apache.org" 
> Date: Thursday, June 20, 2013 11:46 AM
> To: "d...@knox.incubator.apache.org" 
> Subject: [MENTOR] Re: Missing Release Distribution in Clutch Status?
> 
> >adding mentor prefix...
> >
> >
> >On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 3:40 PM, larry mccay 
> >wrote:
> >
> >> Touching this to bring it back to the top...
> >>
> >> @Chris - do you have any insight into this status indicator for us?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Thu, Jun 13, 2013 at 2:51 PM, larry mccay
> >>wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>> Here is the location of ambari - who has a true for release bits
> >>>column -
> >>> of course this is just one mirror - not sure how to map the mirrors:
> >>>
> >>> http://www.us.apache.org/dist/incubator/ambari/ambari-0.9-incubating/
> >>>
> >>> relative path seems to map correctly to me...
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Thu, Jun 13, 2013 at 2:32 PM, Kevin Minder <
> >>> kevin.min...@hortonworks.com> wrote:
> >>>
>  We do have release bits in
>  
> http://www.apache.org/dist/**incubator/knox/0.2.0/ g/dist/incubator/knox/0.2.0/>
> 
>  I wonder if they need to be in the root?
> 
> 
>  On 6/13/13 1:29 PM, larry mccay wrote:
> 
> > All -
> >
> > This page shows the "status of clutch currently in incubation".
> >
> > It indicates that we don't have a release in our distribution area.
> > Does this mean that we don't have our release in the right place?
> >
> > 
> >http://incubator.apache.org/**clutch.html >clutch.html>
> >
> > thanks,
> >
> > --larry
> >
> >
> 
> >>>
> >>
> 
> 
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Re: [VOTE] Release Apache Wave 0.4 based on RC3

[sebb]

On 21 June 2013 00:59, Joe Brockmeier  wrote:
> Hi Ali,
>
> Comments inline.
>
> On Sat, Jun 15, 2013, at 05:24 PM, Ali Lown wrote:
>
>> The result from the wave-dev vote can be found at:
>> https://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-wave-dev/201306.mbox/%3CCABRGrVfPOwN3E8N-uScruYbxdezpfZzAJHMp8dN%2BUfpF6s%2BDGw%40mail.gmail.com%3E
>
> I find this slightly confusing as I expected at least 3 PPMC votes, but
> I guess Wave has opted for the committer == PPMC model?
>
>> Wave 0.4 RC3 artefacts are available at:
>> https://people.apache.org/~al/wave_rc/0.4-rc3/
>> Note: The checksums are SHA-512's
>
> A couple of things:
>
> - Preferably, you'd only include *one* set of artifacts to vote on.
> Am I voting on the zip, the bz2?

If the source is to be release in multiple archive formats, then they
must all be voted on.
Only source that has passed the vote may be released.

> I'm uncomfortable voting without checking
> out all the source releases as I have no way of knowing that the zip ==
> the bz2 release without inspecting both.

That is part of the release checking process, tedious though it is.

There is a Perl script that can be used to compare directory structures:

https://svn.apache.org/repos/private/committers/tools/releases/compare_dirs.pl

> - Preferably, there'd be no binary release in the artifacts you're
> asking to have voted on. Convenience binaries are fine, but they're not
> an official release, so it'd be better not to include them with the
> files we're meant to be voting on.

I disagree here - if a project releases binaries, it's important that
these are reviewed to check that the contents look OK.
For example, LICENSE and NOTICE files appropriate to the contents,
DISCLAIMER file for Incubator releases etc.

> - I have to -1 this as there are several binary (.jar) files included in
> the release that don't belong in a source release. (under
> third_party/codegen/*)

I agree here.

> Best,
>
> jzb
> --
> Joe Brockmeier
> j...@zonker.net
> Twitter: @jzb
> http://www.dissociatedpress.net/
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
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Re: [VOTE] Release Apache Wave 0.4 based on RC3

[Craig L Russell]

Just one quick question. I notice that you include the bouncy-castle jar in the 
distribution. 

Have you looked into the need to file an ECCN for crypto?

Regards,

Craig

On Jun 20, 2013, at 5:00 PM, David Nalley wrote:

> On Sat, Jun 15, 2013 at 6:24 PM, Ali Lown  wrote:
>> The Wave community has voted on and approved the proposal to release
>> Apache Wave 0.4 (incubating) based on RC3.
>> 
>> This will be the initial incubator release for Wave.
>> 
>> The proposal for release can be found at:
>> https://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-wave-dev/201306.mbox/%3ccabrgrvd6n5_llwuufaeky4kzldumd-txyadkmqwkmtfbwtg...@mail.gmail.com%3E
>> 
>> The result from the wave-dev vote can be found at:
>> https://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-wave-dev/201306.mbox/%3CCABRGrVfPOwN3E8N-uScruYbxdezpfZzAJHMp8dN%2BUfpF6s%2BDGw%40mail.gmail.com%3E
>> 
>> Wave 0.4 RC3 artefacts are available at:
>> https://people.apache.org/~al/wave_rc/0.4-rc3/
>> Note: The checksums are SHA-512's
>> 
>> This is a build from the subversion tag wave-0.4-rc3 at:
>> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/wave/tags/
>> 
>> A summary about the project and other information can be found in the
>> RELEASE-NOTES at:
>> https://people.apache.org/~al/wave_rc/0.4-rc3/RELEASE-NOTES
>> and is included in the tarballs.
>> 
>> Votes, please. This vote will close at  GMT 19-June 2013.
>> 
>> [  ] +1   Release these artefacts
>> [  ] +0   OK, but...
>> [  ] -0OK, but really should fix...
>> [  ] -1I oppose this release because...
>> 
>> Thanks.
>> Ali
>> 
>> -
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
>> 
> 
> So I spent a little bit of time looking through this, and am confused.
> 
> There are a ton of jar files (read that as binaries) in the source
> release. Specifically:
> ./third_party/codegen/antlr/antlr-3.2.jar
> ./third_party/codegen/gwt/gwt-dev.jar
> ./third_party/codegen/gwt/gwt-user.jar
> ./third_party/codegen/socketio/socketio-gwt-0.1-SNAPSHOT-sources.jar
> ./third_party/codegen/socketio/socketio-gwt-0.1-SNAPSHOT.jar
> ./third_party/codegen/velocity/velocity-1.6.3-dep.jar
> ./third_party/codegen/velocity/velocity-1.6.3.jar
> ./third_party/runtime/aopalliance/aopalliance.jar
> ./third_party/runtime/bouncycastle/bcprov-jdk16-145.jar
> ./third_party/runtime/commons-fileupload/commons-fileupload.jar
> ./third_party/runtime/commons_cli/commons-cli-1.2.jar
> ./third_party/runtime/commons_codec/commons-codec-1.4-sources.jar
> ./third_party/runtime/commons_codec/commons-codec-1.4.jar
> ./third_party/runtime/commons_collections/commons-collections-3.2.1.jar
> ./third_party/runtime/commons_configuration/commons-configuration-1.6.jar
> ./third_party/runtime/commons_httpclient/commons-httpclient-3.1.jar
> ./third_party/runtime/commons_lang/commons-lang-2.5.jar
> ./third_party/runtime/commons_logging/commons-logging-1.1.1-sources.jar
> ./third_party/runtime/commons_logging/commons-logging-1.1.1.jar
> ./third_party/runtime/commons_logging/commons-logging-adapters-1.1.1.jar
> ./third_party/runtime/commons_logging/commons-logging-api-1.1.1.jar
> ./third_party/runtime/dom4j/dom4j-1.6.1.jar
> ./third_party/runtime/gson/gson-1.4.jar
> ./third_party/runtime/guava/guava-r09-gwt.jar
> ./third_party/runtime/guava/guava-r09.jar
> ./third_party/runtime/guice/guice-3.0.jar
> ./third_party/runtime/guice/guice-assistedinject-3.0.jar
> ./third_party/runtime/guice/guice-servlet-3.0.jar
> ./third_party/runtime/guice/javax.inject.jar
> ./third_party/runtime/gxp/gxp-0.2.4-beta.jar
> ./third_party/runtime/jackson/jackson-core-asl-1.5.2.jar
> ./third_party/runtime/jdo/jdo2-api-2.2.jar
> ./third_party/runtime/jdom/jdom.jar
> ./third_party/runtime/jetty/jetty-client-8.1.1.v20120215.jar
> ./third_party/runtime/jetty/jetty-continuation-8.1.1.v20120215.jar
> ./third_party/runtime/jetty/jetty-http-8.1.1.v20120215.jar
> ./third_party/runtime/jetty/jetty-io-8.1.1.v20120215.jar
> ./third_party/runtime/jetty/jetty-security-8.1.1.v20120215.jar
> ./third_party/runtime/jetty/jetty-server-8.1.1.v20120215.jar
> ./third_party/runtime/jetty/jetty-servlet-8.1.1.v20120215.jar
> ./third_party/runtime/jetty/jetty-servlets-8.1.1.v20120215.jar
> ./third_party/runtime/jetty/jetty-util-8.1.1.v20120215.jar
> ./third_party/runtime/jetty/jetty-webapp-8.1.1.v20120215.jar
> ./third_party/runtime/jetty/jetty-websocket-8.1.1.v20120215.jar
> ./third_party/runtime/jetty/jetty-xml-8.1.1.v20120215.jar
> ./third_party/runtime/jetty/servlet-api-3.0.jar
> ./third_party/runtime/jline/jline-0.9.94.jar
> ./third_party/runtime/joda_time/joda-time-1.6.jar
> ./third_party/runtime/jsr305/jsr305-src.jar
> ./third_party/runtime/jsr305/jsr305.jar
> ./third_party/runtime/libidn/libidn-1.15.jar
> ./third_party/runtime/libidn/libidn-1.26.jar
> ./third_party/runtime/lucene/lucene-core-3.5.0-javadoc.jar
> ./third_party/runtime/lucene/l

Re: [VOTE] Release Apache Wave 0.4 based on RC3

[Michael MacFadden]

Joe,

Thanks for your comments. Can you clarify for us the PPMC comment. I think we 
are a bit confused between the concepts of a top level project PMC, the 
incubator IPMC, the PPMC you have mentioned, and piddling mentors. I don't 
think we had ever discussed nominating a PPMC assuming that first p stands for 
podling. 

I think we were under the inkers soon that the mentors were the management 
committe for the podling. Is there a good document on this somewhere?

~Michael

On Jun 20, 2013, at 5:01 PM, Joe Brockmeier  wrote:

> I should have added: please do address the problems here and re-roll and
> I will be sure to examine that release in a timely fashion. Don't let a
> -1 discourage you, as most incubating projects have to go through a
> learning curve. 
> 
> On Thu, Jun 20, 2013, at 06:59 PM, Joe Brockmeier wrote:
>> Hi Ali, 
>> 
>> Comments inline. 
>> 
>> On Sat, Jun 15, 2013, at 05:24 PM, Ali Lown wrote:
>> 
>>> The result from the wave-dev vote can be found at:
>>> https://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-wave-dev/201306.mbox/%3CCABRGrVfPOwN3E8N-uScruYbxdezpfZzAJHMp8dN%2BUfpF6s%2BDGw%40mail.gmail.com%3E
>> 
>> I find this slightly confusing as I expected at least 3 PPMC votes, but
>> I guess Wave has opted for the committer == PPMC model? 
>> 
>>> Wave 0.4 RC3 artefacts are available at:
>>> https://people.apache.org/~al/wave_rc/0.4-rc3/
>>> Note: The checksums are SHA-512's
>> 
>> A couple of things:
>> 
>> - Preferably, you'd only include *one* set of artifacts to vote on. Am I
>> voting on the zip, the bz2? I'm uncomfortable voting without checking
>> out all the source releases as I have no way of knowing that the zip ==
>> the bz2 release without inspecting both.
>> 
>> - Preferably, there'd be no binary release in the artifacts you're
>> asking to have voted on. Convenience binaries are fine, but they're not
>> an official release, so it'd be better not to include them with the
>> files we're meant to be voting on. 
>> 
>> - I have to -1 this as there are several binary (.jar) files included in
>> the release that don't belong in a source release. (under
>> third_party/codegen/*) 
>> 
>> Best,
>> 
>> jzb
>> -- 
>> Joe Brockmeier
>> j...@zonker.net
>> Twitter: @jzb
>> http://www.dissociatedpress.net/
> 
> 
> Best,
> 
> jzb
> -- 
> Joe Brockmeier
> j...@zonker.net
> Twitter: @jzb
> http://www.dissociatedpress.net/
> 
> -
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Re: [VOTE] Release Apache Wave 0.4 based on RC3

[Joe Brockmeier]

I should have added: please do address the problems here and re-roll and
I will be sure to examine that release in a timely fashion. Don't let a
-1 discourage you, as most incubating projects have to go through a
learning curve. 

On Thu, Jun 20, 2013, at 06:59 PM, Joe Brockmeier wrote:
> Hi Ali, 
> 
> Comments inline. 
> 
> On Sat, Jun 15, 2013, at 05:24 PM, Ali Lown wrote:
> 
> > The result from the wave-dev vote can be found at:
> > https://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-wave-dev/201306.mbox/%3CCABRGrVfPOwN3E8N-uScruYbxdezpfZzAJHMp8dN%2BUfpF6s%2BDGw%40mail.gmail.com%3E
> 
> I find this slightly confusing as I expected at least 3 PPMC votes, but
> I guess Wave has opted for the committer == PPMC model? 
> 
> > Wave 0.4 RC3 artefacts are available at:
> > https://people.apache.org/~al/wave_rc/0.4-rc3/
> > Note: The checksums are SHA-512's
> 
> A couple of things:
> 
> - Preferably, you'd only include *one* set of artifacts to vote on. Am I
> voting on the zip, the bz2? I'm uncomfortable voting without checking
> out all the source releases as I have no way of knowing that the zip ==
> the bz2 release without inspecting both.
> 
> - Preferably, there'd be no binary release in the artifacts you're
> asking to have voted on. Convenience binaries are fine, but they're not
> an official release, so it'd be better not to include them with the
> files we're meant to be voting on. 
> 
> - I have to -1 this as there are several binary (.jar) files included in
> the release that don't belong in a source release. (under
> third_party/codegen/*) 
> 
> Best,
> 
> jzb
> -- 
> Joe Brockmeier
> j...@zonker.net
> Twitter: @jzb
> http://www.dissociatedpress.net/


Best,

jzb
-- 
Joe Brockmeier
j...@zonker.net
Twitter: @jzb
http://www.dissociatedpress.net/

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Re: [VOTE] Release Apache Wave 0.4 based on RC3

[David Nalley]

On Sat, Jun 15, 2013 at 6:24 PM, Ali Lown  wrote:
> The Wave community has voted on and approved the proposal to release
> Apache Wave 0.4 (incubating) based on RC3.
>
> This will be the initial incubator release for Wave.
>
> The proposal for release can be found at:
> https://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-wave-dev/201306.mbox/%3ccabrgrvd6n5_llwuufaeky4kzldumd-txyadkmqwkmtfbwtg...@mail.gmail.com%3E
>
> The result from the wave-dev vote can be found at:
> https://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-wave-dev/201306.mbox/%3CCABRGrVfPOwN3E8N-uScruYbxdezpfZzAJHMp8dN%2BUfpF6s%2BDGw%40mail.gmail.com%3E
>
> Wave 0.4 RC3 artefacts are available at:
> https://people.apache.org/~al/wave_rc/0.4-rc3/
> Note: The checksums are SHA-512's
>
> This is a build from the subversion tag wave-0.4-rc3 at:
> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/wave/tags/
>
> A summary about the project and other information can be found in the
> RELEASE-NOTES at:
> https://people.apache.org/~al/wave_rc/0.4-rc3/RELEASE-NOTES
> and is included in the tarballs.
>
> Votes, please. This vote will close at  GMT 19-June 2013.
>
> [  ] +1   Release these artefacts
> [  ] +0   OK, but...
> [  ] -0OK, but really should fix...
> [  ] -1I oppose this release because...
>
> Thanks.
> Ali
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
>

So I spent a little bit of time looking through this, and am confused.

There are a ton of jar files (read that as binaries) in the source
release. Specifically:
./third_party/codegen/antlr/antlr-3.2.jar
./third_party/codegen/gwt/gwt-dev.jar
./third_party/codegen/gwt/gwt-user.jar
./third_party/codegen/socketio/socketio-gwt-0.1-SNAPSHOT-sources.jar
./third_party/codegen/socketio/socketio-gwt-0.1-SNAPSHOT.jar
./third_party/codegen/velocity/velocity-1.6.3-dep.jar
./third_party/codegen/velocity/velocity-1.6.3.jar
./third_party/runtime/aopalliance/aopalliance.jar
./third_party/runtime/bouncycastle/bcprov-jdk16-145.jar
./third_party/runtime/commons-fileupload/commons-fileupload.jar
./third_party/runtime/commons_cli/commons-cli-1.2.jar
./third_party/runtime/commons_codec/commons-codec-1.4-sources.jar
./third_party/runtime/commons_codec/commons-codec-1.4.jar
./third_party/runtime/commons_collections/commons-collections-3.2.1.jar
./third_party/runtime/commons_configuration/commons-configuration-1.6.jar
./third_party/runtime/commons_httpclient/commons-httpclient-3.1.jar
./third_party/runtime/commons_lang/commons-lang-2.5.jar
./third_party/runtime/commons_logging/commons-logging-1.1.1-sources.jar
./third_party/runtime/commons_logging/commons-logging-1.1.1.jar
./third_party/runtime/commons_logging/commons-logging-adapters-1.1.1.jar
./third_party/runtime/commons_logging/commons-logging-api-1.1.1.jar
./third_party/runtime/dom4j/dom4j-1.6.1.jar
./third_party/runtime/gson/gson-1.4.jar
./third_party/runtime/guava/guava-r09-gwt.jar
./third_party/runtime/guava/guava-r09.jar
./third_party/runtime/guice/guice-3.0.jar
./third_party/runtime/guice/guice-assistedinject-3.0.jar
./third_party/runtime/guice/guice-servlet-3.0.jar
./third_party/runtime/guice/javax.inject.jar
./third_party/runtime/gxp/gxp-0.2.4-beta.jar
./third_party/runtime/jackson/jackson-core-asl-1.5.2.jar
./third_party/runtime/jdo/jdo2-api-2.2.jar
./third_party/runtime/jdom/jdom.jar
./third_party/runtime/jetty/jetty-client-8.1.1.v20120215.jar
./third_party/runtime/jetty/jetty-continuation-8.1.1.v20120215.jar
./third_party/runtime/jetty/jetty-http-8.1.1.v20120215.jar
./third_party/runtime/jetty/jetty-io-8.1.1.v20120215.jar
./third_party/runtime/jetty/jetty-security-8.1.1.v20120215.jar
./third_party/runtime/jetty/jetty-server-8.1.1.v20120215.jar
./third_party/runtime/jetty/jetty-servlet-8.1.1.v20120215.jar
./third_party/runtime/jetty/jetty-servlets-8.1.1.v20120215.jar
./third_party/runtime/jetty/jetty-util-8.1.1.v20120215.jar
./third_party/runtime/jetty/jetty-webapp-8.1.1.v20120215.jar
./third_party/runtime/jetty/jetty-websocket-8.1.1.v20120215.jar
./third_party/runtime/jetty/jetty-xml-8.1.1.v20120215.jar
./third_party/runtime/jetty/servlet-api-3.0.jar
./third_party/runtime/jline/jline-0.9.94.jar
./third_party/runtime/joda_time/joda-time-1.6.jar
./third_party/runtime/jsr305/jsr305-src.jar
./third_party/runtime/jsr305/jsr305.jar
./third_party/runtime/libidn/libidn-1.15.jar
./third_party/runtime/libidn/libidn-1.26.jar
./third_party/runtime/lucene/lucene-core-3.5.0-javadoc.jar
./third_party/runtime/lucene/lucene-core-3.5.0.jar
./third_party/runtime/mongo-driver/mongo-2.1.jar
./third_party/runtime/oauth/oauth-common-src.jar
./third_party/runtime/oauth/oauth-common.jar
./third_party/runtime/oauth/oauth-consumer-src.jar
./third_party/runtime/oauth/oauth-consumer.jar
./third_party/runtime/oauth/oauth-provider-src.jar
./third_party/runtime/oauth/oauth-provider.jar
./third_party/runtime/protobuf/

Re: [VOTE] Release Apache Wave 0.4 based on RC3

[Joe Brockmeier]

Hi Ali, 

Comments inline. 

On Sat, Jun 15, 2013, at 05:24 PM, Ali Lown wrote:

> The result from the wave-dev vote can be found at:
> https://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-wave-dev/201306.mbox/%3CCABRGrVfPOwN3E8N-uScruYbxdezpfZzAJHMp8dN%2BUfpF6s%2BDGw%40mail.gmail.com%3E

I find this slightly confusing as I expected at least 3 PPMC votes, but
I guess Wave has opted for the committer == PPMC model? 

> Wave 0.4 RC3 artefacts are available at:
> https://people.apache.org/~al/wave_rc/0.4-rc3/
> Note: The checksums are SHA-512's

A couple of things:

- Preferably, you'd only include *one* set of artifacts to vote on. Am I
voting on the zip, the bz2? I'm uncomfortable voting without checking
out all the source releases as I have no way of knowing that the zip ==
the bz2 release without inspecting both.

- Preferably, there'd be no binary release in the artifacts you're
asking to have voted on. Convenience binaries are fine, but they're not
an official release, so it'd be better not to include them with the
files we're meant to be voting on. 

- I have to -1 this as there are several binary (.jar) files included in
the release that don't belong in a source release. (under
third_party/codegen/*) 

Best,

jzb
-- 
Joe Brockmeier
j...@zonker.net
Twitter: @jzb
http://www.dissociatedpress.net/

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Re: Instead of a Bill how about a Booklet? (was Re: [DISCUSS] PodlingBillOfRights)

[Upayavira]

To distinguish between these two documents, they have different
flavours. One sets the expectations of podlings members, the other tells
mentors what is expected of them. This latter one should not be
forgotten. It is easy to sign up as a mentor, but not so easy to follow
through.

Having something you can be judged against is useful.

Upayavira

On Thu, Jun 20, 2013, at 10:37 PM, Rob Vesse wrote:
> I have written up the suggestions so far into a wiki page
> 
> https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/WhatToExpect
> 
> The content is pretty much what has been included in this thread
> reorganized with a few minor grammar tweaks here and there.
> 
> If people like this notion feel free to edit the page or continue
> discussing here
> 
> Rob
> 
> 
> On 6/20/13 12:22 PM, "Upayavira"  wrote:
> 
> >11. In certain circumstances, there are specific people charged with
> >certain responsibilities. Over time you can expect to learn who they
> >are, and where they hang out. Your mentor should be able to guide you
> >while you do learn. If, for whatever reason, they are unable or
> >unwilling to, you can ask on the incubator general list. If the optic is
> >too sensitive to discuss in public (eg a potential committer) you may
> >contact the incubator ombudsman at x...@apache.org.
> >
> >Upayavira
> >
> >On Thu, Jun 20, 2013, at 05:40 PM, Rob Vesse wrote:
> >> +1
> >> 
> >> Having also come to Apache by joining a now graduated podling (Apache
> >> Jena) I like the idea of a "What to expect" document and agree with
> >> pretty
> >> much everything that you lay out here.  I think people outside of Apache
> >> often don't appreciate how a volunteer organization operates and many of
> >> your points describe this in terms new folks can understand, as you
> >> highlight Apache is not that different from many other organizations in
> >> many respects.
> >> 
> >> 
> >> I would suggest maybe adding a further point emphasizing the time aspect
> >> you raised in your previous email
> >> 
> >> 4A) Don't forget that people here are geographically distributed and may
> >> be in very different timezones.  There may be a significant lag between
> >> sending a communication and the intended recipient(s) even reading it,
> >> yet
> >> alone having the time to actually act upon it.  A communication sent
> >> first
> >> thing in the morning in your timezone may arrive in the middle of the
> >> night for the recipient(s) so be prepared to wait for a response.
> >> 
> >> I think those of us who work in the US or for multi-national companies
> >> get
> >> used to dealing with timezones and tend to forget that a lot of people
> >> come from countries where there is only one timezone.
> >> 
> >> Rob
> >> 
> >> On 6/20/13 9:22 AM, "Alex Harui"  wrote:
> >> 
> >> >Hi,  As a newbie, I've generally quietly watched from the sidelines,
> >>but
> >> >now I'm jumping in.
> >> >
> >> >+1 about "expectations" vs "rights".  In fact, it occurred to me that a
> >> >booklet or pamphlet more like the "What to expect whenŠ" book would be
> >> >better.  IMO, correctly set expectations make for happier people.
> >>Here is
> >> >my draft of  "What to expect when you enter the Apache Incubator".
> >> >
> >> >1)  Apache is staffed by volunteers, and a few paid, but overworked IT
> >> >folks known as Infra.  As such, there is a very good chance that you
> >>will
> >> >get different answers from different respondents, and responses may be
> >> >delayed.  This is not like your paid corporate job where there is
> >> >administration and infrastructure whose mind-share is fully dedicated
> >>to
> >> >serving you.
> >> >2) Apache has been around long enough and is large enough to have its
> >>own
> >> >culture, with its own societal rules and tribal history.   Lots of it
> >>is
> >> >written down, but it is hard to find.  Try to remember the last time
> >>you
> >> >started at a new company or team or club and how, even though there
> >>were
> >> >documents to read, there was always important stuff that you had to
> >>learn
> >> >some other way.  Apache is no different, but with volunteers, even
> >>less is
> >> >written down, and people's recollections of history can vary widely and
> >> >nobody is paid to serve your needs except Infra which is overloaded.
> >> >3) Some folks are quiet, some are noisy, some complain, some are
> >> >optimistic.  If you've worked on a large team, you've probably found
> >>this
> >> >to be true on that team as well.  Success usually comes from finding
> >>out
> >> >which folks you deal with are of which personality type, and how best
> >>to
> >> >work with those people.
> >> >4) Often you just have to be patient.  Pick your battles.  Prioritize
> >>your
> >> >needs.  Ask politely once for really important things, then plead
> >>again a
> >> >few days later.
> >> >5) Learn how to use an internet search engine.  Try to find information
> >> >before you ask.  The results may be hard to understand or confusing
> >>and be
> >> >careful about reading 

Re: Instead of a Bill how about a Booklet? (was Re: [DISCUSS] PodlingBillOfRights)

[Rob Vesse]

I have written up the suggestions so far into a wiki page

https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/WhatToExpect

The content is pretty much what has been included in this thread
reorganized with a few minor grammar tweaks here and there.

If people like this notion feel free to edit the page or continue
discussing here

Rob


On 6/20/13 12:22 PM, "Upayavira"  wrote:

>11. In certain circumstances, there are specific people charged with
>certain responsibilities. Over time you can expect to learn who they
>are, and where they hang out. Your mentor should be able to guide you
>while you do learn. If, for whatever reason, they are unable or
>unwilling to, you can ask on the incubator general list. If the optic is
>too sensitive to discuss in public (eg a potential committer) you may
>contact the incubator ombudsman at x...@apache.org.
>
>Upayavira
>
>On Thu, Jun 20, 2013, at 05:40 PM, Rob Vesse wrote:
>> +1
>> 
>> Having also come to Apache by joining a now graduated podling (Apache
>> Jena) I like the idea of a "What to expect" document and agree with
>> pretty
>> much everything that you lay out here.  I think people outside of Apache
>> often don't appreciate how a volunteer organization operates and many of
>> your points describe this in terms new folks can understand, as you
>> highlight Apache is not that different from many other organizations in
>> many respects.
>> 
>> 
>> I would suggest maybe adding a further point emphasizing the time aspect
>> you raised in your previous email
>> 
>> 4A) Don't forget that people here are geographically distributed and may
>> be in very different timezones.  There may be a significant lag between
>> sending a communication and the intended recipient(s) even reading it,
>> yet
>> alone having the time to actually act upon it.  A communication sent
>> first
>> thing in the morning in your timezone may arrive in the middle of the
>> night for the recipient(s) so be prepared to wait for a response.
>> 
>> I think those of us who work in the US or for multi-national companies
>> get
>> used to dealing with timezones and tend to forget that a lot of people
>> come from countries where there is only one timezone.
>> 
>> Rob
>> 
>> On 6/20/13 9:22 AM, "Alex Harui"  wrote:
>> 
>> >Hi,  As a newbie, I've generally quietly watched from the sidelines,
>>but
>> >now I'm jumping in.
>> >
>> >+1 about "expectations" vs "rights".  In fact, it occurred to me that a
>> >booklet or pamphlet more like the "What to expect whenŠ" book would be
>> >better.  IMO, correctly set expectations make for happier people.
>>Here is
>> >my draft of  "What to expect when you enter the Apache Incubator".
>> >
>> >1)  Apache is staffed by volunteers, and a few paid, but overworked IT
>> >folks known as Infra.  As such, there is a very good chance that you
>>will
>> >get different answers from different respondents, and responses may be
>> >delayed.  This is not like your paid corporate job where there is
>> >administration and infrastructure whose mind-share is fully dedicated
>>to
>> >serving you.
>> >2) Apache has been around long enough and is large enough to have its
>>own
>> >culture, with its own societal rules and tribal history.   Lots of it
>>is
>> >written down, but it is hard to find.  Try to remember the last time
>>you
>> >started at a new company or team or club and how, even though there
>>were
>> >documents to read, there was always important stuff that you had to
>>learn
>> >some other way.  Apache is no different, but with volunteers, even
>>less is
>> >written down, and people's recollections of history can vary widely and
>> >nobody is paid to serve your needs except Infra which is overloaded.
>> >3) Some folks are quiet, some are noisy, some complain, some are
>> >optimistic.  If you've worked on a large team, you've probably found
>>this
>> >to be true on that team as well.  Success usually comes from finding
>>out
>> >which folks you deal with are of which personality type, and how best
>>to
>> >work with those people.
>> >4) Often you just have to be patient.  Pick your battles.  Prioritize
>>your
>> >needs.  Ask politely once for really important things, then plead
>>again a
>> >few days later.
>> >5) Learn how to use an internet search engine.  Try to find information
>> >before you ask.  The results may be hard to understand or confusing
>>and be
>> >careful about reading snippets without taking in some of the larger
>> >context.  But then your question will be better defined.  Bonus if you
>>can
>> >quote a web page as part of your question.
>> >6) Some folks want there to be a "bill of rights", but you don't have
>>any
>> >"rights" because there are no authority figures at Apache to enforce
>>those
>> >rights.  Any "violations" have to be dealt with "socially".  You can
>>seek
>> >help from the IPMC or even the board, but even they are volunteers and
>> >will try to address the problem socially as well.  You can expect and
>> >demand respectful discourse, but sometimes temper

Re: Incubator Write Access

[Marvin Humphrey]

On Thu, Jun 20, 2013 at 1:24 PM, Rob Vesse  wrote:
> Could someone please grant me write access to the Incubator wiki
>
> My username is RobVesse

Done.

Marvin Humphrey

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Incubator Write Access

[Rob Vesse]

Could someone please grant me write access to the Incubator wiki

My username is RobVesse

Thanks,

Rob

Re: Instead of a Bill how about a Booklet? (was Re: [DISCUSS] PodlingBillOfRights)

[Upayavira]

11. In certain circumstances, there are specific people charged with
certain responsibilities. Over time you can expect to learn who they
are, and where they hang out. Your mentor should be able to guide you
while you do learn. If, for whatever reason, they are unable or
unwilling to, you can ask on the incubator general list. If the optic is
too sensitive to discuss in public (eg a potential committer) you may
contact the incubator ombudsman at x...@apache.org.

Upayavira

On Thu, Jun 20, 2013, at 05:40 PM, Rob Vesse wrote:
> +1
> 
> Having also come to Apache by joining a now graduated podling (Apache
> Jena) I like the idea of a "What to expect" document and agree with
> pretty
> much everything that you lay out here.  I think people outside of Apache
> often don't appreciate how a volunteer organization operates and many of
> your points describe this in terms new folks can understand, as you
> highlight Apache is not that different from many other organizations in
> many respects.
> 
> 
> I would suggest maybe adding a further point emphasizing the time aspect
> you raised in your previous email
> 
> 4A) Don't forget that people here are geographically distributed and may
> be in very different timezones.  There may be a significant lag between
> sending a communication and the intended recipient(s) even reading it,
> yet
> alone having the time to actually act upon it.  A communication sent
> first
> thing in the morning in your timezone may arrive in the middle of the
> night for the recipient(s) so be prepared to wait for a response.
> 
> I think those of us who work in the US or for multi-national companies
> get
> used to dealing with timezones and tend to forget that a lot of people
> come from countries where there is only one timezone.
> 
> Rob
> 
> On 6/20/13 9:22 AM, "Alex Harui"  wrote:
> 
> >Hi,  As a newbie, I've generally quietly watched from the sidelines, but
> >now I'm jumping in.
> >
> >+1 about "expectations" vs "rights".  In fact, it occurred to me that a
> >booklet or pamphlet more like the "What to expect whenŠ" book would be
> >better.  IMO, correctly set expectations make for happier people.  Here is
> >my draft of  "What to expect when you enter the Apache Incubator".
> >
> >1)  Apache is staffed by volunteers, and a few paid, but overworked IT
> >folks known as Infra.  As such, there is a very good chance that you will
> >get different answers from different respondents, and responses may be
> >delayed.  This is not like your paid corporate job where there is
> >administration and infrastructure whose mind-share is fully dedicated to
> >serving you.
> >2) Apache has been around long enough and is large enough to have its own
> >culture, with its own societal rules and tribal history.   Lots of it is
> >written down, but it is hard to find.  Try to remember the last time you
> >started at a new company or team or club and how, even though there were
> >documents to read, there was always important stuff that you had to learn
> >some other way.  Apache is no different, but with volunteers, even less is
> >written down, and people's recollections of history can vary widely and
> >nobody is paid to serve your needs except Infra which is overloaded.
> >3) Some folks are quiet, some are noisy, some complain, some are
> >optimistic.  If you've worked on a large team, you've probably found this
> >to be true on that team as well.  Success usually comes from finding out
> >which folks you deal with are of which personality type, and how best to
> >work with those people.
> >4) Often you just have to be patient.  Pick your battles.  Prioritize your
> >needs.  Ask politely once for really important things, then plead again a
> >few days later.
> >5) Learn how to use an internet search engine.  Try to find information
> >before you ask.  The results may be hard to understand or confusing and be
> >careful about reading snippets without taking in some of the larger
> >context.  But then your question will be better defined.  Bonus if you can
> >quote a web page as part of your question.
> >6) Some folks want there to be a "bill of rights", but you don't have any
> >"rights" because there are no authority figures at Apache to enforce those
> >rights.  Any "violations" have to be dealt with "socially".  You can seek
> >help from the IPMC or even the board, but even they are volunteers and
> >will try to address the problem socially as well.  You can expect and
> >demand respectful discourse, but sometimes tempers will boil over.  That
> >happens in many workplaces, homes and other gatherings of people.  Expect
> >it here as well, even more so sometimes, as there are relatively few
> >face-to-face encounters to encourage civility and limit chances of
> >mis-interpretation.
> >7) Your mentors may get too busy to follow the details of activity in your
> >podling.  Use the [MENTOR] tag in the subject to try to catch their
> >attention.  Escalate to the Incubator IPMC if they still don't have ti

Re: [MENTOR] Re: Missing Release Distribution in Clutch Status?

[Mattmann, Chris A (398J)]

Hey Guys,

Sorry I missed this.

Real quick CC to general@i.a.o. I'm not an expert in the Clutch.
IPMC peeps that know the clutch, Knox has a release in the dist
area:

http://www.apache.org/dyn/closer.cgi/incubator/knox/


(^^ for example the 0.2.0 release)

Can someone give us some insight as to why the clutch indicates
we don't have a release in the distro area?

Thank you!

Cheers,
Chris

++
Chris Mattmann, Ph.D.
Senior Computer Scientist
NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA
Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246
Email: chris.a.mattm...@nasa.gov
WWW:  http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/
++
Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department
University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA
++






-Original Message-
From: larry mccay 
Reply-To: "d...@knox.incubator.apache.org" 
Date: Thursday, June 20, 2013 11:46 AM
To: "d...@knox.incubator.apache.org" 
Subject: [MENTOR] Re: Missing Release Distribution in Clutch Status?

>adding mentor prefix...
>
>
>On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 3:40 PM, larry mccay 
>wrote:
>
>> Touching this to bring it back to the top...
>>
>> @Chris - do you have any insight into this status indicator for us?
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 13, 2013 at 2:51 PM, larry mccay
>>wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Here is the location of ambari - who has a true for release bits
>>>column -
>>> of course this is just one mirror - not sure how to map the mirrors:
>>>
>>> http://www.us.apache.org/dist/incubator/ambari/ambari-0.9-incubating/
>>>
>>> relative path seems to map correctly to me...
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jun 13, 2013 at 2:32 PM, Kevin Minder <
>>> kevin.min...@hortonworks.com> wrote:
>>>
 We do have release bits in
 
http://www.apache.org/dist/**incubator/knox/0.2.0/

 I wonder if they need to be in the root?


 On 6/13/13 1:29 PM, larry mccay wrote:

> All -
>
> This page shows the "status of clutch currently in incubation".
>
> It indicates that we don't have a release in our distribution area.
> Does this mean that we don't have our release in the right place?
>
> 
>http://incubator.apache.org/**clutch.htmlclutch.html>
>
> thanks,
>
> --larry
>
>

>>>
>>


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[RESULT] [VOTE] Release Apache Mesos 0.12.0-incubating (RC1)

[Benjamin Mahler]

The vote to release mesos-0.12.0-incubating has passed with 3 IPMC binding
+1s and 5 non-binding +1s.

IPMC Binding Votes:

Alex Karasulu
Chris Mattman
Tom White

Non-Binding Votes:

Vinod Kone
Deepal Jayasinghe
Brenden Matthews
Yan Xu
Andy Konwinski

Thanks all!

-- Forwarded message --
From: Mattmann, Chris A (398J) 
Date: Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 6:04 PM
Subject: Re: [VOTE] Release Apache Mesos 0.12.0-incubating (RC1)
To: Benjamin Mahler , "
mesos-...@incubator.apache.org" , "
general@incubator.apache.org" 


Hey Ben,

Looks like we got a 3rd +1 from Tom W -- woot -- so we can proceed :)

Way to put a cherry on top since we're pushing on graduating now too!

Great work guys.

Cheers,
Chris

++
Chris Mattmann, Ph.D.
Senior Computer Scientist
NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA
Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246
Email: chris.a.mattm...@nasa.gov
WWW:  http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/
++
Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department
University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA
++






-Original Message-
From: Benjamin Mahler 
Date: Monday, June 17, 2013 12:12 PM
To: "mesos-...@incubator.apache.org" ,
"general@incubator.apache.org" , jpluser

Subject: Re: [VOTE] Release Apache Mesos 0.12.0-incubating (RC1)

>+chris
>
>
>Hey Chris, looks like we're stalled on releasing again. What are the
>rules for a lack of IPMC participation in the 72 hour window? Can we
>proceed?
>
>
>On Fri, Jun 14, 2013 at 11:09 AM, Benjamin Mahler
> wrote:
>
>Unfortunately 0.12.0 was at a point where we had flaky tests, we're in
>much better shape these days! (0.13.0 and later)
>
>
>Alright, just one additional binding vote needed!! Hopefully we can get
>that quickly and start preparing to release 0.13.0.
>
>
>
>On Thu, Jun 13, 2013 at 11:27 PM, Andy Konwinski
> wrote:
>
>Yeah, after running the tests a few more times I saw a couple different
>tests fail and eventually in one run of `make check` they all passed.
>
>Here's the play-by-play:
>
>I ran the tests again and they hung here for at least 10 min:
>
>MacbookAir:build andyk$ make check
>Making check in .
>make[1]: Nothing to be done for `check-am'.
>Making check in third_party
>make  check-recursive
>Making check in libprocess
>Making check in third_party
>make  check-am
>make  libgmock.la 
>make[6]: `libgmock.la ' is up to date.
>Making check in .
>make  tests
>make[5]: `tests' is up to date.
>make  check-TESTS
>
>Then again, and a different test failed in libprocess after a few seconds:
>
>MacbookAir:build andyk$ cat third_party/libprocess/test-suite.log
>
>...
>
>[ RUN  ] Statistics.truncate
>../../../third_party/libprocess/src/tests/statistics_tests.cpp:58: Failure
>Expected: (Clock::now()) >= (values.get().begin()->first.secs()), actual:
>1.37119e+09 vs 1.37119e+09
>../../../third_party/libprocess/src/tests/statistics_tests.cpp:71: Failure
>Expected: (Clock::now()) >= (values.get().begin()->first.secs()), actual:
>1.37128e+09 vs 1.37128e+09
>[  FAILED  ] Statistics.truncate (1 ms)
>
>
>Then they all passed!
>
>Glad to know the flakey tests are known issues and being worked on in a
>future release.
>
>+1 (non-binding) from me on this release.
>
>Andy
>
>
>On Thu, Jun 13, 2013 at 10:38 PM, Vinod Kone  wrote:
>
>> is this test always failing or just flaky? we've fixed a bunch of our
>>flaky
>> tests in 0.13.0.
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 13, 2013 at 10:13 PM, Andy Konwinski
>>> >wrote:
>>
>> > I downloaded the tarball and it builds fine for me but `make check`
>> > doesn't succeed on OS X 10.8.3. Is this a known issue?
>> >
>> > I'll attach the test suite output and paste the output from the
>>failing
>> > test below.
>> >
>> > Andy
>> >
>> > --
>> >
>> > [ RUN  ] ZooKeeperTest.MasterDetectorExpireSlaveZKSessionNewMaster
>> > 2013-06-13
>> 22:07:44,372:5033(0x11747b000):ZOO_ERROR@handle_socket_error_msg@1603:
>> > Socket [127.0.0.1:51504 ] zk retcode=-4,
>>errno=64(Host is down): failed
>> > while receiving a server response
>> > 2013-06-13
>> 22:07:44,375:5033(0x11726f000):ZOO_ERROR@handle_socket_error_msg@1603:
>> > Socket [127.0.0.1:51504 ] zk retcode=-4,
>>errno=64(Host is down): failed
>> > while receiving a server response
>> > 2013-06-13
>> 22:07:44,377:5033(0x11726f000):ZOO_ERROR@handle_socket_error_msg@1621:
>> > Socket [127.0.0.1:51504 ] zk retcode=-112,
>>errno=70(Stale NFS file
>> > handle): sessionId=0x13f41150633 has expired.
>> > E0613 22:07:44.377506 220274688 detector.cpp:477] Master detector
>>((755)@
>> > 192.168.1.104:51358 )  failed to get
>>masters: session expired
>> > ../../src/tests/zookeeper_tests.cpp:441: Failure
>> > Mock function called more times than e

Re: Instead of a Bill how about a Booklet? (was Re: [DISCUSS] PodlingBillOfRights)

[Rob Vesse]

+1

Having also come to Apache by joining a now graduated podling (Apache
Jena) I like the idea of a "What to expect" document and agree with pretty
much everything that you lay out here.  I think people outside of Apache
often don't appreciate how a volunteer organization operates and many of
your points describe this in terms new folks can understand, as you
highlight Apache is not that different from many other organizations in
many respects.


I would suggest maybe adding a further point emphasizing the time aspect
you raised in your previous email

4A) Don't forget that people here are geographically distributed and may
be in very different timezones.  There may be a significant lag between
sending a communication and the intended recipient(s) even reading it, yet
alone having the time to actually act upon it.  A communication sent first
thing in the morning in your timezone may arrive in the middle of the
night for the recipient(s) so be prepared to wait for a response.

I think those of us who work in the US or for multi-national companies get
used to dealing with timezones and tend to forget that a lot of people
come from countries where there is only one timezone.

Rob

On 6/20/13 9:22 AM, "Alex Harui"  wrote:

>Hi,  As a newbie, I've generally quietly watched from the sidelines, but
>now I'm jumping in.
>
>+1 about "expectations" vs "rights".  In fact, it occurred to me that a
>booklet or pamphlet more like the "What to expect whenŠ" book would be
>better.  IMO, correctly set expectations make for happier people.  Here is
>my draft of  "What to expect when you enter the Apache Incubator".
>
>1)  Apache is staffed by volunteers, and a few paid, but overworked IT
>folks known as Infra.  As such, there is a very good chance that you will
>get different answers from different respondents, and responses may be
>delayed.  This is not like your paid corporate job where there is
>administration and infrastructure whose mind-share is fully dedicated to
>serving you.
>2) Apache has been around long enough and is large enough to have its own
>culture, with its own societal rules and tribal history.   Lots of it is
>written down, but it is hard to find.  Try to remember the last time you
>started at a new company or team or club and how, even though there were
>documents to read, there was always important stuff that you had to learn
>some other way.  Apache is no different, but with volunteers, even less is
>written down, and people's recollections of history can vary widely and
>nobody is paid to serve your needs except Infra which is overloaded.
>3) Some folks are quiet, some are noisy, some complain, some are
>optimistic.  If you've worked on a large team, you've probably found this
>to be true on that team as well.  Success usually comes from finding out
>which folks you deal with are of which personality type, and how best to
>work with those people.
>4) Often you just have to be patient.  Pick your battles.  Prioritize your
>needs.  Ask politely once for really important things, then plead again a
>few days later.
>5) Learn how to use an internet search engine.  Try to find information
>before you ask.  The results may be hard to understand or confusing and be
>careful about reading snippets without taking in some of the larger
>context.  But then your question will be better defined.  Bonus if you can
>quote a web page as part of your question.
>6) Some folks want there to be a "bill of rights", but you don't have any
>"rights" because there are no authority figures at Apache to enforce those
>rights.  Any "violations" have to be dealt with "socially".  You can seek
>help from the IPMC or even the board, but even they are volunteers and
>will try to address the problem socially as well.  You can expect and
>demand respectful discourse, but sometimes tempers will boil over.  That
>happens in many workplaces, homes and other gatherings of people.  Expect
>it here as well, even more so sometimes, as there are relatively few
>face-to-face encounters to encourage civility and limit chances of
>mis-interpretation.
>7) Your mentors may get too busy to follow the details of activity in your
>podling.  Use the [MENTOR] tag in the subject to try to catch their
>attention.  Escalate to the Incubator IPMC if they still don't have time
>to respond.
>8) Embrace diversity.  Every podling is a little bit different and your
>new podling may not exactly match up against existing documentation or
>prior history.  Ask for guidance, keep in mind that answers may vary, and
>make your decision keeping these things in mind.
>A) The primary goal is to cover your and Apache's butt legally.  This may
>require you to change build scripts and release packages in  a way that is
>painful for you and your customers.
>B) Apache only officially releases source code.  This may be a pain point
>for any existing customers used to downloading binary packages.
>C) At Apache, open source isn't just about making released source code
>availa

Re: [PROPOSAL] Creation of the Incubator Ombudsman

[Alex Harui]

FWIW, my concerns about an Ombudsman are:

1) I had no idea what an Ombudsman was.  I'd heard of it, but never had to
work with one before.  I had to go look it up.  If I had a complaint, I'm
not sure I would know to look up that word to find the email address to
complain to.
2) If you create a role like this, what happens when the folks who take it
on run out of time and energy (see my comments about time in my 'exit
interview' draft) and we can't find anybody else who wants to take that on
for all of Apache?

Roles like 'ombudsman' imply at least some sort of authority or the
ability to get the authorities to act, but with all-volunteers, the person
who is being complained about probably just ran out of time and there is
no way to enforce that.

We think of Apache as a community, and I'd prefer a community without a
police station where the neighbors just have to work things out among
themselves. An ombudsman implies a sort of anonymous tip line and some
sort of resolution by enforcement.

I'd rather go with what Jim referenced, that those of you who have the
time and energy take on the role of community welcomers (you don't have to
be an 'elder' which implies 'old'), visit a new podling and say "Hey, I
live five houses down (meaning, I'm not on following your podling on
email), lived in this neighborhood for many years, and you have great
neighbors (meaning mentors), but if you ever need anything, come knock on
my door day or night."  Then no individual is committed to have to visit
'every' podling.  There isn't some email address that you don't know who
will answer.

My 2 cents,
-Alex

On 6/20/13 5:01 AM, "Bertrand Delacretaz"  wrote:

>On Sun, Jun 16, 2013 at 7:42 PM, Alan Cabrera 
>wrote:
>> ...I think that it would be a great idea to have an ASF wide ombudsman
>>instead...
>
>We don't have that, and I don't think we need it - people should feel
>free to contact people that they trust (officers, board members, ASF
>members) privately if there's a need, and not having someone elected
>in the ombudsman role means people are free to talk to whoever they
>think will help.
>
>-Bertrand
>
>-
>To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
>For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
>


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Re: Instead of a Bill how about a Booklet? (was Re: [DISCUSS] PodlingBillOfRights)

[Donald Whytock]

On Thu, Jun 20, 2013 at 12:22 PM, Alex Harui  wrote:

> 2) Apache has been around long enough and is large enough to have its own
> culture, with its own societal rules and tribal history.   Lots of it is
> written down, but it is hard to find.


I never thought of that...Apache policy is the written equivalent of oral
history.

Don

Instead of a Bill how about a Booklet? (was Re: [DISCUSS] PodlingBillOfRights)

[Alex Harui]

Hi,  As a newbie, I've generally quietly watched from the sidelines, but
now I'm jumping in.

+1 about "expectations" vs "rights".  In fact, it occurred to me that a
booklet or pamphlet more like the "What to expect whenŠ" book would be
better.  IMO, correctly set expectations make for happier people.  Here is
my draft of  "What to expect when you enter the Apache Incubator".

1)  Apache is staffed by volunteers, and a few paid, but overworked IT
folks known as Infra.  As such, there is a very good chance that you will
get different answers from different respondents, and responses may be
delayed.  This is not like your paid corporate job where there is
administration and infrastructure whose mind-share is fully dedicated to
serving you.
2) Apache has been around long enough and is large enough to have its own
culture, with its own societal rules and tribal history.   Lots of it is
written down, but it is hard to find.  Try to remember the last time you
started at a new company or team or club and how, even though there were
documents to read, there was always important stuff that you had to learn
some other way.  Apache is no different, but with volunteers, even less is
written down, and people's recollections of history can vary widely and
nobody is paid to serve your needs except Infra which is overloaded.
3) Some folks are quiet, some are noisy, some complain, some are
optimistic.  If you've worked on a large team, you've probably found this
to be true on that team as well.  Success usually comes from finding out
which folks you deal with are of which personality type, and how best to
work with those people.
4) Often you just have to be patient.  Pick your battles.  Prioritize your
needs.  Ask politely once for really important things, then plead again a
few days later.
5) Learn how to use an internet search engine.  Try to find information
before you ask.  The results may be hard to understand or confusing and be
careful about reading snippets without taking in some of the larger
context.  But then your question will be better defined.  Bonus if you can
quote a web page as part of your question.
6) Some folks want there to be a "bill of rights", but you don't have any
"rights" because there are no authority figures at Apache to enforce those
rights.  Any "violations" have to be dealt with "socially".  You can seek
help from the IPMC or even the board, but even they are volunteers and
will try to address the problem socially as well.  You can expect and
demand respectful discourse, but sometimes tempers will boil over.  That
happens in many workplaces, homes and other gatherings of people.  Expect
it here as well, even more so sometimes, as there are relatively few
face-to-face encounters to encourage civility and limit chances of
mis-interpretation.
7) Your mentors may get too busy to follow the details of activity in your
podling.  Use the [MENTOR] tag in the subject to try to catch their
attention.  Escalate to the Incubator IPMC if they still don't have time
to respond.
8) Embrace diversity.  Every podling is a little bit different and your
new podling may not exactly match up against existing documentation or
prior history.  Ask for guidance, keep in mind that answers may vary, and
make your decision keeping these things in mind.
A) The primary goal is to cover your and Apache's butt legally.  This may
require you to change build scripts and release packages in  a way that is
painful for you and your customers.
B) Apache only officially releases source code.  This may be a pain point
for any existing customers used to downloading binary packages.
C) At Apache, open source isn't just about making released source code
available.  It is about trying to get the community involved early and
often before the source code is "release-ready".
9) Expect the unexpected.  Sometimes, a document you find may be
out-of-date, and/or mention things that don't apply to you and when you
ask about it, you'll get a totally surprising answer.
10) Expect a ton of email.  The temptation will be to unsubscribe from
some of the lists you are told to subscribe to, but it is important to
learn how to filter out stuff and skim other stuff as it helps you learn
about the people and personalities you will be dealing with
post-graduation on occasion, and if you end up on your project's PMC, you
will be responsible for mining important information from that email
stream.

Now this may seem like it should make you run away screaming, but it all
adds up to one thing:  This is the "cost" of getting a group of volunteers
to provide free software to a community of developers and users. You are
doing a good deed by coming to Apache.  You could just go to GitHub, but
Apache provides some legal and logistical processes that should make your
customers feel more secure that the code you want to work on will be
available to the customer "forever" without fear that some individual can
disappear and sink the whole ship, or some legal issue wi

[DRAFT] Apache Flex Podling Exit Interview (if there was such a thing) (was Re: [PROPOSAL] Mandatory podling exit interviews)

[Alex Harui]

First, a disclaimer.  This is just my personal take on things and no one
else on the Apache Flex PMC was involved in writing this.

As the PMC chair of a relatively recently graduated podling, I would like
to suggest that if you choose to implement "exit interviews" they should
probably be optional, and I would argue that they should be requested at
least 3 months after graduation, after the transition from podling to
project is hopefully complete.  First, there are potential nightmares in
the transition, and second, after that dust settles, there is hopefully
time to reflect.  Regarding anonymity, I would suggest that any naming of
names should happen outside the interview and on private@.

Anyway, the exit interview for Apache Flex would be short.  It would say:
"We started with four mentors, one dropped out, the other three were
great, two remain on the project PMC.  When you have enough active
mentors, the Incubator works just fine.  Yes, documentation could be
better, but we figured it out and graduated and are off an running as a
TLP."

Now if the interview contained an open comments section, I would say the
following:

I've been scanning what must be hundreds of emails in at least 3 threads
trying to fix the Incubator.  Personally, I think the Incubator is working
as well as should be expected.  Can it be better?  Maybe.  Because I think
there really is only one "problem", and that is simply "time".

In fact, "time" is the root cause of all "problems" at Apache, especially
at the other main source, which is Infra, and it amazes me that it doesn't
really get mentioned explicitly in these discussions.  To me, it is par
for the course when you have a group of volunteers running things.   I
haven't done much volunteering, but are there other organizations as large
as Apache that is administered by volunteers?  Big charities seem to have
paid administrators.

Infra has some paid folks, and I haven't checked Apache history, but I
would imagine Infra was once all-volunteer until it was decided it was not
going to scale and donation money was diverted to fund fully-dedicated
people to it.  And still, they are underfunded as lots of minor requests
slip through the cracks.

It may simply be time to try to get more donation money diverted to pay
one or two folks to serve on the IPMC.  You can try every new idea you
want, but they will all fail if folks simply don't have the time and
energy to execute them.


-Alex


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Re: [PROPOSAL] Creation of the Incubator Ombudsman

[Marvin Humphrey]

On Thu, Jun 20, 2013 at 6:03 AM, Ross Gardler
 wrote:
> +10.99

+Inf

Good grief, could there be a better candidate, in terms of either substance or
symbolism?

> (the .9 is for Marvins amusement ;-)

"It worked!"

Marvin Humphrey

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Re: [VOTE] Release Apache Wave 0.4 based on RC3

[Joe Brockmeier]

Hi Ali, 

On Wed, Jun 19, 2013, at 03:06 PM, Ali Lown wrote:
> The voting period has now passed, and we have received no votes from
> anyone
> here :(

Sorry, folks are too busy debating the problems of the Incubator to take
time to review Incubator releases. ;-) 

I'll try to take a look tonight and nudge a few other IPMC folks do to
the same. 

Best,

jzb
-- 
Joe Brockmeier
j...@zonker.net
Twitter: @jzb
http://www.dissociatedpress.net/

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Re: [VOTE] Accept Stratos proposal as an incubating project

[Afkham Azeez]

Thanks Ross for seeing this through.

Azeez

On Thu, Jun 20, 2013 at 4:56 PM, Ross Gardler wrote:

> This vote is now closed. The Vote passed.
>
> Podling committers can start the process of setting up the project [1]
> (note some actions require the support of your mentors).
>
> There are no -1 votes and plenty of both binding and non-binding +1 votes.
> It is not my intention to tally the votes. I realise it has become habitual
> to tally the votes formally, but when there are no -1s and enough binding
> +1s there is little need for this time consuming task.
>
> Of course, if the IPMC want to insist on a tally I will take it upon myself
> to count some beans whilst cursing under my breath about my volunteer time
> being squandered.
>
> Regardless the podling creation process can start - good luck all.
>
> Ross
>
> [1]
>
> http://incubator.apache.org/incubation/Incubation_Policy.html#Setting+Up+a+New+Podling
>
>
> On 14 June 2013 22:49, Ross Gardler  wrote:
>
> > I would like to invite the IPMC vote to accept the Stratos proposal [1].
> >
> > I want to clarify that this vote is for the Stratos project to enter
> > the incubator as a standard podling under the existing incubation
> > policy. The acceptance or otherwise of the probationary TLP idea is a
> > separate issue that will be explored during the first month of
> > incubation, potentially resulting in a further IPMC vote.
> >
> > This vote is *only* for accepting the Stratos project as a podling.
> >
> > [ ] +1 Accept the Stratos project as an incubating project
> > [ ] +0
> > [ ] -1 Do not accept the Stratos project as an incubating project
> > because... (provide reason)
> >
> > It's late on Friday evening here in the UK. I'll let this vote run
> > well into next week to allow for the weekend.
> >
> > Thank you for your votes.
> > Ross
> >
>



-- 
*Afkham Azeez*
Director of Architecture; WSO2, Inc.; http://wso2.com,
*Member; Apache Software Foundation;
**http://www.apache.org/*
*
*
*email: **az...@wso2.com* * cell: +94 77 3320919
blog: **http://blog.afkham.org* *
twitter: **http://twitter.com/afkham_azeez*
*
linked-in: **http://lk.linkedin.com/in/afkhamazeez*
*
*
*Lean . Enterprise . Middleware*
*
*

Re: [RESULT] Re: [VOTE] Accept Stratos proposal as an incubating project

[Paul Fremantle]

Ross - huge thanks. Great champion-ing.

Paul


On Thu, Jun 20, 2013 at 12:36 PM, Ross Gardler
wrote:

> Resending with [RESULT] tag as  (reasonably) requested off list - sorry
>
>
> On 20 June 2013 12:26, Ross Gardler  wrote:
>
> > This vote is now closed. The Vote passed.
> >
> > Podling committers can start the process of setting up the project [1]
> > (note some actions require the support of your mentors).
> >
> > There are no -1 votes and plenty of both binding and non-binding +1
> votes.
> > It is not my intention to tally the votes. I realise it has become
> habitual
> > to tally the votes formally, but when there are no -1s and enough binding
> > +1s there is little need for this time consuming task.
> >
> > Of course, if the IPMC want to insist on a tally I will take it upon
> > myself to count some beans whilst cursing under my breath about my
> > volunteer time being squandered.
> >
> > Regardless the podling creation process can start - good luck all.
> >
> > Ross
> >
> > [1]
> >
> http://incubator.apache.org/incubation/Incubation_Policy.html#Setting+Up+a+New+Podling
> >
> >
> > On 14 June 2013 22:49, Ross Gardler  wrote:
> >
> >> I would like to invite the IPMC vote to accept the Stratos proposal [1].
> >>
> >> I want to clarify that this vote is for the Stratos project to enter
> >> the incubator as a standard podling under the existing incubation
> >> policy. The acceptance or otherwise of the probationary TLP idea is a
> >> separate issue that will be explored during the first month of
> >> incubation, potentially resulting in a further IPMC vote.
> >>
> >> This vote is *only* for accepting the Stratos project as a podling.
> >>
> >> [ ] +1 Accept the Stratos project as an incubating project
> >> [ ] +0
> >> [ ] -1 Do not accept the Stratos project as an incubating project
> >> because... (provide reason)
> >>
> >> It's late on Friday evening here in the UK. I'll let this vote run
> >> well into next week to allow for the weekend.
> >>
> >> Thank you for your votes.
> >> Ross
> >>
> >
> >
>



-- 
Paul Fremantle
Co-Founder and CTO, WSO2
Apache Synapse PMC Chair
OASIS WS-RX TC Co-chair

blog: http://pzf.fremantle.org
p...@wso2.com

"Oxygenating the Web Service Platform", www.wso2.com

Re: [RESULT] Re: [VOTE] Accept Stratos proposal as an incubating project

[Sanjiva Weerawarana]

Very cool :-). Thanks Ross and everyone!

Sanjiva.


On Thu, Jun 20, 2013 at 5:06 PM, Ross Gardler wrote:

> Resending with [RESULT] tag as  (reasonably) requested off list - sorry
>
>
> On 20 June 2013 12:26, Ross Gardler  wrote:
>
> > This vote is now closed. The Vote passed.
> >
> > Podling committers can start the process of setting up the project [1]
> > (note some actions require the support of your mentors).
> >
> > There are no -1 votes and plenty of both binding and non-binding +1
> votes.
> > It is not my intention to tally the votes. I realise it has become
> habitual
> > to tally the votes formally, but when there are no -1s and enough binding
> > +1s there is little need for this time consuming task.
> >
> > Of course, if the IPMC want to insist on a tally I will take it upon
> > myself to count some beans whilst cursing under my breath about my
> > volunteer time being squandered.
> >
> > Regardless the podling creation process can start - good luck all.
> >
> > Ross
> >
> > [1]
> >
> http://incubator.apache.org/incubation/Incubation_Policy.html#Setting+Up+a+New+Podling
> >
> >
> > On 14 June 2013 22:49, Ross Gardler  wrote:
> >
> >> I would like to invite the IPMC vote to accept the Stratos proposal [1].
> >>
> >> I want to clarify that this vote is for the Stratos project to enter
> >> the incubator as a standard podling under the existing incubation
> >> policy. The acceptance or otherwise of the probationary TLP idea is a
> >> separate issue that will be explored during the first month of
> >> incubation, potentially resulting in a further IPMC vote.
> >>
> >> This vote is *only* for accepting the Stratos project as a podling.
> >>
> >> [ ] +1 Accept the Stratos project as an incubating project
> >> [ ] +0
> >> [ ] -1 Do not accept the Stratos project as an incubating project
> >> because... (provide reason)
> >>
> >> It's late on Friday evening here in the UK. I'll let this vote run
> >> well into next week to allow for the weekend.
> >>
> >> Thank you for your votes.
> >> Ross
> >>
> >
> >
>



-- 
Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D.
Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.;  http://wso2.com/
email: sanj...@wso2.com; phone: +94 11 763 9614; cell: +94 77 787 6880 | +1
650 265 8311
blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/

Lean . Enterprise . Middleware

Re: [PROPOSAL] Creation of the Incubator Ombudsman

[Ross Gardler]

+10.99

(the .9 is for Marvins amusement ;-)

Ross


On 20 June 2013 14:00, Jim Jagielski  wrote:

> If the idea of the 'Ombudsman' is sort of like an 'elder
> Statesman' role as well, then I may be interested...
>
> On Jun 20, 2013, at 4:29 AM, Daniel Shahaf  wrote:
>
> > On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 01:44:14PM -0700, Dave Fisher wrote:
> >>
> >> On Jun 19, 2013, at 9:41 AM, Alan Cabrera wrote:
> >>
> >>> I would prefer to use well known names for well known roles.
>  Ombudsman is a roll that's been around for quite a while and the person
> filling that role for the ASF will be doing roughly the same thing as
> ombudsman in other organizations.
> >>>
> >>> With that said, I will agree that if everything is running fine, the
> ombudsman is pretty much watching Oprah re-runs.  Hopefully we will all
> work hard so this person will have the time to catch up.  ;)
> >>>
> >>> However, I will point out that my proposal has come about from
> concrete personal experience and the experiences that others have
> personally related to me.  I will also point out that it seems to me that
> those who are opposed or, at best, lukewarm to the idea are well
> established and well connected individuals in the ASF sphere.
> >>
> >> +1.
> >>
> >> How should we "bless" our Ombudsmen? On private@? Do we have more than
> one?
> >> If so what is the limit?
> >
> > I don't think you have that problem yet -- I don't see a mob banging on
> the
> > doors of this thread crying, "Me! Me!".
> >
> > Personally I suggest KISS.  Set up the alias, have it target 2 people,
> > advertise it on the web site, move on.  This email took me 200% as long
> to type
> > than it would have taken me to set up the actual alias...
> >
> > ssh -t hermes.apache.org sudo -u apmail tee
> \~apmail/.qmail-incubator-ombudsm\{a,e\}n <<< $'w...@apache.org\
> ndanie...@apache.org\n'
> >
> >
> > -
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
> >
>
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
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>
>

Re: [PROPOSAL] Creation of the Incubator Ombudsman

[Jim Jagielski]

If the idea of the 'Ombudsman' is sort of like an 'elder
Statesman' role as well, then I may be interested...

On Jun 20, 2013, at 4:29 AM, Daniel Shahaf  wrote:

> On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 01:44:14PM -0700, Dave Fisher wrote:
>> 
>> On Jun 19, 2013, at 9:41 AM, Alan Cabrera wrote:
>> 
>>> I would prefer to use well known names for well known roles.  Ombudsman is 
>>> a roll that's been around for quite a while and the person filling that 
>>> role for the ASF will be doing roughly the same thing as ombudsman in other 
>>> organizations.
>>> 
>>> With that said, I will agree that if everything is running fine, the 
>>> ombudsman is pretty much watching Oprah re-runs.  Hopefully we will all 
>>> work hard so this person will have the time to catch up.  ;)
>>> 
>>> However, I will point out that my proposal has come about from concrete 
>>> personal experience and the experiences that others have personally related 
>>> to me.  I will also point out that it seems to me that those who are 
>>> opposed or, at best, lukewarm to the idea are well established and well 
>>> connected individuals in the ASF sphere.
>> 
>> +1.
>> 
>> How should we "bless" our Ombudsmen? On private@? Do we have more than one?
>> If so what is the limit?
> 
> I don't think you have that problem yet -- I don't see a mob banging on the
> doors of this thread crying, "Me! Me!".
> 
> Personally I suggest KISS.  Set up the alias, have it target 2 people,
> advertise it on the web site, move on.  This email took me 200% as long to 
> type
> than it would have taken me to set up the actual alias...
> 
> ssh -t hermes.apache.org sudo -u apmail tee 
> \~apmail/.qmail-incubator-ombudsm\{a,e\}n <<< 
> $'w...@apache.org\ndanie...@apache.org\n'
> 
> 
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
> 


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Re: [PROPOSAL] Creation of the Incubator Ombudsman

[Bertrand Delacretaz]

On Sun, Jun 16, 2013 at 7:42 PM, Alan Cabrera  wrote:
> ...I think that it would be a great idea to have an ASF wide ombudsman 
> instead...

We don't have that, and I don't think we need it - people should feel
free to contact people that they trust (officers, board members, ASF
members) privately if there's a need, and not having someone elected
in the ombudsman role means people are free to talk to whoever they
think will help.

-Bertrand

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[RESULT] Re: [VOTE] Accept Stratos proposal as an incubating project

[Ross Gardler]

Resending with [RESULT] tag as  (reasonably) requested off list - sorry


On 20 June 2013 12:26, Ross Gardler  wrote:

> This vote is now closed. The Vote passed.
>
> Podling committers can start the process of setting up the project [1]
> (note some actions require the support of your mentors).
>
> There are no -1 votes and plenty of both binding and non-binding +1 votes.
> It is not my intention to tally the votes. I realise it has become habitual
> to tally the votes formally, but when there are no -1s and enough binding
> +1s there is little need for this time consuming task.
>
> Of course, if the IPMC want to insist on a tally I will take it upon
> myself to count some beans whilst cursing under my breath about my
> volunteer time being squandered.
>
> Regardless the podling creation process can start - good luck all.
>
> Ross
>
> [1]
> http://incubator.apache.org/incubation/Incubation_Policy.html#Setting+Up+a+New+Podling
>
>
> On 14 June 2013 22:49, Ross Gardler  wrote:
>
>> I would like to invite the IPMC vote to accept the Stratos proposal [1].
>>
>> I want to clarify that this vote is for the Stratos project to enter
>> the incubator as a standard podling under the existing incubation
>> policy. The acceptance or otherwise of the probationary TLP idea is a
>> separate issue that will be explored during the first month of
>> incubation, potentially resulting in a further IPMC vote.
>>
>> This vote is *only* for accepting the Stratos project as a podling.
>>
>> [ ] +1 Accept the Stratos project as an incubating project
>> [ ] +0
>> [ ] -1 Do not accept the Stratos project as an incubating project
>> because... (provide reason)
>>
>> It's late on Friday evening here in the UK. I'll let this vote run
>> well into next week to allow for the weekend.
>>
>> Thank you for your votes.
>> Ross
>>
>
>

Re: [VOTE] Accept Stratos proposal as an incubating project

[Noah Slater]

Woot. Thanks Ross!


On 20 June 2013 12:26, Ross Gardler  wrote:

> This vote is now closed. The Vote passed.
>
> Podling committers can start the process of setting up the project [1]
> (note some actions require the support of your mentors).
>
> There are no -1 votes and plenty of both binding and non-binding +1 votes.
> It is not my intention to tally the votes. I realise it has become habitual
> to tally the votes formally, but when there are no -1s and enough binding
> +1s there is little need for this time consuming task.
>
> Of course, if the IPMC want to insist on a tally I will take it upon myself
> to count some beans whilst cursing under my breath about my volunteer time
> being squandered.
>
> Regardless the podling creation process can start - good luck all.
>
> Ross
>
> [1]
>
> http://incubator.apache.org/incubation/Incubation_Policy.html#Setting+Up+a+New+Podling
>
>
> On 14 June 2013 22:49, Ross Gardler  wrote:
>
> > I would like to invite the IPMC vote to accept the Stratos proposal [1].
> >
> > I want to clarify that this vote is for the Stratos project to enter
> > the incubator as a standard podling under the existing incubation
> > policy. The acceptance or otherwise of the probationary TLP idea is a
> > separate issue that will be explored during the first month of
> > incubation, potentially resulting in a further IPMC vote.
> >
> > This vote is *only* for accepting the Stratos project as a podling.
> >
> > [ ] +1 Accept the Stratos project as an incubating project
> > [ ] +0
> > [ ] -1 Do not accept the Stratos project as an incubating project
> > because... (provide reason)
> >
> > It's late on Friday evening here in the UK. I'll let this vote run
> > well into next week to allow for the weekend.
> >
> > Thank you for your votes.
> > Ross
> >
>



-- 
NS

Re: [VOTE] Accept Stratos proposal as an incubating project

[Ross Gardler]

This vote is now closed. The Vote passed.

Podling committers can start the process of setting up the project [1]
(note some actions require the support of your mentors).

There are no -1 votes and plenty of both binding and non-binding +1 votes.
It is not my intention to tally the votes. I realise it has become habitual
to tally the votes formally, but when there are no -1s and enough binding
+1s there is little need for this time consuming task.

Of course, if the IPMC want to insist on a tally I will take it upon myself
to count some beans whilst cursing under my breath about my volunteer time
being squandered.

Regardless the podling creation process can start - good luck all.

Ross

[1]
http://incubator.apache.org/incubation/Incubation_Policy.html#Setting+Up+a+New+Podling


On 14 June 2013 22:49, Ross Gardler  wrote:

> I would like to invite the IPMC vote to accept the Stratos proposal [1].
>
> I want to clarify that this vote is for the Stratos project to enter
> the incubator as a standard podling under the existing incubation
> policy. The acceptance or otherwise of the probationary TLP idea is a
> separate issue that will be explored during the first month of
> incubation, potentially resulting in a further IPMC vote.
>
> This vote is *only* for accepting the Stratos project as a podling.
>
> [ ] +1 Accept the Stratos project as an incubating project
> [ ] +0
> [ ] -1 Do not accept the Stratos project as an incubating project
> because... (provide reason)
>
> It's late on Friday evening here in the UK. I'll let this vote run
> well into next week to allow for the weekend.
>
> Thank you for your votes.
> Ross
>

Re: [VOTE] Release Apache Wave 0.4 based on RC3

[Christian Grobmeier]

Hi Ali,

unfortunately i have not seen the IPMC reviewing the release within
the three days voting period.
Please leave the vote open and write a reminder from time to time.

here is some more information on the voting status:
http://people.apache.org/~brane/incubator/votes.html

Cheers

On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 10:06 PM, Ali Lown  wrote:
> The voting period has now passed, and we have received no votes from anyone
> here :(
>
> Could some IPMC please look at this (we need at least 2 more +1)? Being an
> initial release, it is very important for it to be 'accepted', since it
> will dictate how Wave's releases look in the future.
>
> Thanks,
> Ali
> On 15 Jun 2013 23:24, "Ali Lown"  wrote:
>
>> The Wave community has voted on and approved the proposal to release
>> Apache Wave 0.4 (incubating) based on RC3.
>>
>> This will be the initial incubator release for Wave.
>>
>> The proposal for release can be found at:
>>
>> https://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-wave-dev/201306.mbox/%3ccabrgrvd6n5_llwuufaeky4kzldumd-txyadkmqwkmtfbwtg...@mail.gmail.com%3E
>>
>> The result from the wave-dev vote can be found at:
>>
>> https://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-wave-dev/201306.mbox/%3CCABRGrVfPOwN3E8N-uScruYbxdezpfZzAJHMp8dN%2BUfpF6s%2BDGw%40mail.gmail.com%3E
>>
>> Wave 0.4 RC3 artefacts are available at:
>> https://people.apache.org/~al/wave_rc/0.4-rc3/
>> Note: The checksums are SHA-512's
>>
>> This is a build from the subversion tag wave-0.4-rc3 at:
>> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/wave/tags/
>>
>> A summary about the project and other information can be found in the
>> RELEASE-NOTES at:
>> https://people.apache.org/~al/wave_rc/0.4-rc3/RELEASE-NOTES
>> and is included in the tarballs.
>>
>> Votes, please. This vote will close at  GMT 19-June 2013.
>>
>> [  ] +1   Release these artefacts
>> [  ] +0   OK, but...
>> [  ] -0OK, but really should fix...
>> [  ] -1I oppose this release because...
>>
>> Thanks.
>> Ali
>>



-- 
http://www.grobmeier.de
https://www.timeandbill.de

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Re: [PROPOSAL] Mandatory podling exit interviews

[Upayavira]

Anomnity of the individual not the project. I can say "my mentor was
crap" without stating my name - I could be any one of the PPMC.

Upayavira

On Thu, Jun 20, 2013, at 10:32 AM, Daniel Shahaf wrote:
> On Thu, Jun 20, 2013 at 10:18:16AM +0100, Upayavira wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > On Thu, Jun 20, 2013, at 03:54 AM, Marvin Humphrey wrote:
> > > On Sat, Jun 15, 2013 at 8:47 AM, Alan Cabrera 
> > > wrote:
> > > > Solution: require all podlings to submit anonymous exit interviews as 
> > > > part
> > > > of the graduation requirements.  These exit interviews will be suitably
> > > > scrubbed and organized by the Incubator Ombudsman; see next proposal.
> > > 
> > > A few sample questions:
> > > 
> > > *   What aspect of incubation benefitted your podling the most?
> > > *   What advice would you give to future podlings?
> > > *   What was the most useful thing you learned?
> > > *   What could we have done differently?
> > > 
> > > I think we should accept the survey in private but publish the results on
> > > general@ after scrubbing sections marked  and anything else
> > > sensitive
> > > at the ombud's discretion.  Author identity should be preserved, because
> > > any
> > > attempt at anonymization will be dangerously futile.
> > 
> > As in any such survey, author identity should be optional. Sometimes it
> > can be deduced, but not always, and if someone would rather not mention
> > their name, we should give them that opportunity.
> 
> Only one podling graduated in the last two months.  At this rate, if you
> really
> want anonymity, you'll have to publish the results once per quarter at
> most.
> 
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> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
> 

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Re: [RESULT] [VOTE] Apache Spark for the Incubator

[Matei Zaharia]

Thanks Chris! We'll get started on all the required steps.

Matei

On Jun 20, 2013, at 4:35 AM, "Mattmann, Chris A (398J)" 
 wrote:

> Hi Folks,
> 
> This VOTE has passed with the following tallies:
> 
> +1
> Chris Mattmann*
> Konstantin Boudnik
> Henry Saputra*
> Reynold Xin
> Pei Chen
> Roman Shaposhnik*
> Suresh Marru*
> Scott Deboy
> Ted Dunning*
> Hitesh Shah
> Paul Ramirez*
> Ralph Goers*
> Alan Cabrera*
> Thilina Gunarathne
> Marcel Offermans*
> Alex Karasulu*
> Chris Douglas*
> Andrew Hart*
> Deepal jayasinghe 
> Ashish
> Joe Brockmeier*
> Mohammad Nour El-Din*
> Arun C Murthy*
> Tim Williams*
> Arvind Prabhakar*
> Matt Franklin*
> Matei Zaharia
> Andy Konwinski
> 
> +0.9
> 
> 
> Marvin Humphrey
> 
> * -indicates IPMC
> 
> 
> I'll go ahead and get the JIRA tickets filed for email/issue tracking/Git,
> and then work with the community to get them moving on' over. Thanks for
> VOTE'ing!
> 
> Cheers,
> Chris
> 
> 
> ++
> Chris Mattmann, Ph.D.
> Senior Computer Scientist
> NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA
> Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246
> Email: chris.a.mattm...@nasa.gov
> WWW:  http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/
> ++
> Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department
> University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA
> ++
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: , jpluser 
> Reply-To: "general@incubator.apache.org" 
> Date: Friday, June 7, 2013 10:34 PM
> To: "general@incubator.apache.org" 
> Subject: [VOTE] Apache Spark for the Incubator
> 
>> Hi Folks,
>> 
>> OK discussion has died down, time to VOTE to accept Spark into the
>> Apache Incubator. I'll let the VOTE run for at least a week.
>> 
>> So far I've heard +1s from the following folks, so no need for them
>> to VOTE again unless they want to change their VOTE:
>> 
>> +1
>> 
>> Chris Mattmann*
>> Konstantin Boudnik
>> Henry Saputra*
>> Reynold Xin
>> Pei Chen
>> Roman Shaposhnik*
>> Suresh Marru*
>> 
>> * -indicates IPMC
>> 
>> [ ] +1 Accept Spark into the Apache Incubator.
>> [ ] +0 Don't care.
>> [ ] -1 Don't accept Spark into the Apache Incubator because..
>> 
>> Proposal text is below.
>> 
>> === Abstract ===
>> Spark is an open source system for large-scale data analysis on clusters.
>> 
>> === Proposal ===
>> Spark is an open source system for fast and flexible large-scale data
>> analysis. Spark provides a general purpose runtime that supports
>> low-latency execution in several forms. These include interactive
>> exploration of very large datasets, near real-time stream processing, and
>> ad-hoc SQL analytics (through higher layer extensions). Spark interfaces
>> with HDFS, HBase, Cassandra and several other storage storage layers, and
>> exposes APIs in Scala, Java and Python.
>> Background
>> Spark started as U.C. Berkeley research project, designed to efficiently
>> run machine learning algorithms on large datasets. Over time, it has
>> evolved into a general computing engine as outlined above. Spark¹s
>> developer community has also grown to include additional institutions,
>> such as universities, research labs, and corporations. Funding has been
>> provided by various institutions including the U.S. National Science
>> Foundation, DARPA, and a number of industry sponsors. See:
>> https://amplab.cs.berkeley.edu/sponsors/ for full details.
>> 
>> === Rationale ===
>> As the number of contributors to Spark has grown, we have sought for a
>> long-term home for the project, and we believe the Apache foundation would
>> be a great fit. Spark is a natural fit for the Apache foundation: Spark
>> already interoperates with several existing Apache projects (HDFS, HBase,
>> Hive, Cassandra, Avro and Flume to name a few). The Spark team is familiar
>> with the Apache process and and subscribes to the Apache mission - the
>> team includes multiple Apache committers already. Finally, joining Apache
>> will help coordinate the development effort of the growing number of
>> organizations which contribute to Spark.
>> 
>> == Initial Goals ==
>> The initial goals will most likely be to move the existing codebase to
>> Apache and integrate with the Apache development process. Furthermore, we
>> plan for incremental development, and releases along with the Apache
>> guidelines.
>> 
>> === Current Status ===
>> == Meritocracy ==
>> The Spark project already operates on meritocratic principles. Today,
>> Spark has several developers and has accepted multiple major patches from
>> outside of U.C. Berkeley. While this process has remained mostly informal
>> (we do not have an official committer list), an implicit organization
>> exists in which individuals who contribute major components act as
>> maintainers for those modules. If accepted, the Spark project would
>> include several of these participants

Re: [PROPOSAL] Mandatory podling exit interviews

[Daniel Shahaf]

On Thu, Jun 20, 2013 at 10:18:16AM +0100, Upayavira wrote:
> 
> 
> On Thu, Jun 20, 2013, at 03:54 AM, Marvin Humphrey wrote:
> > On Sat, Jun 15, 2013 at 8:47 AM, Alan Cabrera 
> > wrote:
> > > Solution: require all podlings to submit anonymous exit interviews as part
> > > of the graduation requirements.  These exit interviews will be suitably
> > > scrubbed and organized by the Incubator Ombudsman; see next proposal.
> > 
> > A few sample questions:
> > 
> > *   What aspect of incubation benefitted your podling the most?
> > *   What advice would you give to future podlings?
> > *   What was the most useful thing you learned?
> > *   What could we have done differently?
> > 
> > I think we should accept the survey in private but publish the results on
> > general@ after scrubbing sections marked  and anything else
> > sensitive
> > at the ombud's discretion.  Author identity should be preserved, because
> > any
> > attempt at anonymization will be dangerously futile.
> 
> As in any such survey, author identity should be optional. Sometimes it
> can be deduced, but not always, and if someone would rather not mention
> their name, we should give them that opportunity.

Only one podling graduated in the last two months.  At this rate, if you really
want anonymity, you'll have to publish the results once per quarter at most.

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Re: [PROPOSAL] Creation of the Incubator Ombudsman

[Daniel Shahaf]

On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 01:44:14PM -0700, Dave Fisher wrote:
> 
> On Jun 19, 2013, at 9:41 AM, Alan Cabrera wrote:
> 
> > I would prefer to use well known names for well known roles.  Ombudsman is 
> > a roll that's been around for quite a while and the person filling that 
> > role for the ASF will be doing roughly the same thing as ombudsman in other 
> > organizations.
> > 
> > With that said, I will agree that if everything is running fine, the 
> > ombudsman is pretty much watching Oprah re-runs.  Hopefully we will all 
> > work hard so this person will have the time to catch up.  ;)
> > 
> > However, I will point out that my proposal has come about from concrete 
> > personal experience and the experiences that others have personally related 
> > to me.  I will also point out that it seems to me that those who are 
> > opposed or, at best, lukewarm to the idea are well established and well 
> > connected individuals in the ASF sphere.
> 
> +1.
> 
> How should we "bless" our Ombudsmen? On private@? Do we have more than one?
> If so what is the limit?

I don't think you have that problem yet -- I don't see a mob banging on the
doors of this thread crying, "Me! Me!".

Personally I suggest KISS.  Set up the alias, have it target 2 people,
advertise it on the web site, move on.  This email took me 200% as long to type
than it would have taken me to set up the actual alias...

ssh -t hermes.apache.org sudo -u apmail tee 
\~apmail/.qmail-incubator-ombudsm\{a,e\}n <<< 
$'w...@apache.org\ndanie...@apache.org\n'


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Re: Stratos proposal: is it possible to add another initial committer?

[Daniel Shahaf]

On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 08:49:55PM -0700, Marvin Humphrey wrote:
> On Tue, Jun 18, 2013 at 4:01 PM, Daniel Shahaf  wrote:
> > On Tue, Jun 18, 2013 at 11:49:51PM +0100, Ross Gardler wrote:
> >> +Once the vote has been called the proposal should be considered fixed.
> >> +  No further changes are accepted.
> >
> > Can I suggest that you make explicit the option to cancel the vote, amend 
> > the
> > proposal, and re-start the vote?  This document is facing "new" people who
> > might otherwise get the false impression that once a vote is started, 
> > that's it
> > --- "sink or swim", based on whatever the proposal was at that point in 
> > time.
> 
> Hi Daniel, I'll volunteer to take point on documenting this issue.
> 

Thanks.

> Therefore, unless there are objections, I plan to strike the material on the
> "Process Description" page, leaving the only copy at the canonical location of
> the proposal guide.

+1 to the idea that policy should exist only at one, canonical location.

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Re: [VOTE] Release Apache Wave 0.4 based on RC3

[Ali Lown]

The voting period has now passed, and we have received no votes from anyone
here :(

Could some IPMC please look at this (we need at least 2 more +1)? Being an
initial release, it is very important for it to be 'accepted', since it
will dictate how Wave's releases look in the future.

Thanks,
Ali
On 15 Jun 2013 23:24, "Ali Lown"  wrote:

> The Wave community has voted on and approved the proposal to release
> Apache Wave 0.4 (incubating) based on RC3.
>
> This will be the initial incubator release for Wave.
>
> The proposal for release can be found at:
>
> https://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-wave-dev/201306.mbox/%3ccabrgrvd6n5_llwuufaeky4kzldumd-txyadkmqwkmtfbwtg...@mail.gmail.com%3E
>
> The result from the wave-dev vote can be found at:
>
> https://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-wave-dev/201306.mbox/%3CCABRGrVfPOwN3E8N-uScruYbxdezpfZzAJHMp8dN%2BUfpF6s%2BDGw%40mail.gmail.com%3E
>
> Wave 0.4 RC3 artefacts are available at:
> https://people.apache.org/~al/wave_rc/0.4-rc3/
> Note: The checksums are SHA-512's
>
> This is a build from the subversion tag wave-0.4-rc3 at:
> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/wave/tags/
>
> A summary about the project and other information can be found in the
> RELEASE-NOTES at:
> https://people.apache.org/~al/wave_rc/0.4-rc3/RELEASE-NOTES
> and is included in the tarballs.
>
> Votes, please. This vote will close at  GMT 19-June 2013.
>
> [  ] +1   Release these artefacts
> [  ] +0   OK, but...
> [  ] -0OK, but really should fix...
> [  ] -1I oppose this release because...
>
> Thanks.
> Ali
>

Re: [PROPOSAL] Mandatory podling exit interviews

[Upayavira]

On Thu, Jun 20, 2013, at 03:54 AM, Marvin Humphrey wrote:
> On Sat, Jun 15, 2013 at 8:47 AM, Alan Cabrera 
> wrote:
> > Solution: require all podlings to submit anonymous exit interviews as part
> > of the graduation requirements.  These exit interviews will be suitably
> > scrubbed and organized by the Incubator Ombudsman; see next proposal.
> 
> A few sample questions:
> 
> *   What aspect of incubation benefitted your podling the most?
> *   What advice would you give to future podlings?
> *   What was the most useful thing you learned?
> *   What could we have done differently?
> 
> I think we should accept the survey in private but publish the results on
> general@ after scrubbing sections marked  and anything else
> sensitive
> at the ombud's discretion.  Author identity should be preserved, because
> any
> attempt at anonymization will be dangerously futile.

As in any such survey, author identity should be optional. Sometimes it
can be deduced, but not always, and if someone would rather not mention
their name, we should give them that opportunity.

Upayavira

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