Re: Write Access to submit Podling Report

[Lars Francke]

Hi Mirko,

as Justin mentioned last time: Only PPMC members can submit the report.

I'm on holiday right now but I'll ping Chris if he can help move it over.

Cheers,
Lars


On Wed, Aug 2, 2023 at 11:34 AM Mirko Kämpf  wrote:

> Hello ASF Admins,
>
> I try another attempt to submit a podling report for the ASF Training
> Incubator project.
>
> Unfortunately, I am still not able to edit the report submission page:
>
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/incubator/August2023#training
>
> I am using this account:
>
> [image: image.png]
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Dear Admin, please give me the write permission to add the podling reports
> for the ASF Training project.
>
> In order to speed up the process I have attached the report to this email.
>
> Many thanks and best regards,
> Mirko
>
>
> --
>
> Dr. rer. nat. Mirko Kämpf
> Müchelner Str. 23
> 06259 Frankleben
>
>
> -
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Re: Access to Incubator Wiki - Submission of Podling report - Apache Training

[Lars Francke]

eport. We again failed to
> provide the report on time, but this will change soon.Two persons joined
> our conversation on the dev-list (Eric and Rich).*
>
>
> *How has the project developed since the last report?*
> <https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/TRAINING/Podling+Reports#how-has-the-project-developed-since-the-last-report>
>
> An pro-active request for a content / tool donation has been placed - but
> it was rejected. The person I asked has no longer access to the tool I had
> in mind.
>
> Creation of a ASF onboarding training module has been announced.
>
> A tool for inspecting documentation in Github repositories (ASF projects)
> which will lead towards automatic training related content extraction has
> been started.
>
> PR activity continuous on a low level since the last report.
>
>
> *How would you assess the podling's maturity?*
> <https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/TRAINING/Podling+Reports#how-would-you-assess-the-podlings-maturity>
>
> There are currently some issues with this podling that we are working to
> address, we believe that the issues are not yet critical and can be turned
> around from within the community but want to make the board aware of this
> early on.
>
>-  Initial setup oft he project’s structure: *Goals and strategy needs
>refinement.*
>-  Working towards first release: *What type of artefacts to release is
>not clear, due to unclear goals and strategy.*
>-  Community building: *The community exists of a very small number of
>people but is more or less invisible, as of today (April 2023).*
>-  Nearing graduation: *Currently, we are far away from graduation.*
>
>
> *When were the last committers or PPMC members elected?*
> <https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/TRAINING/Podling+Reports#when-were-the-last-committers-or-ppmc-members-elected>
>
> November 2020
>
>
> *Have your mentors been helpful and responsive?*
> <https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/TRAINING/Podling+Reports#have-your-mentors-been-helpful-and-responsive>
>
> Mentors have been responsive and helpful when reached out to.
>
>
> *Is the PPMC managing the podling's brand / trademarks?*
> <https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/TRAINING/Podling+Reports#is-the-ppmc-managing-the-podlings-brand--trademarks>
>
> The name search process has not yet been started, as there is still time to
> do that if and when graduation draws nearer.
>
> The PPMC is actively monitoring usage of the Podlings current name on other
> sites.
>
> The Podling is not directly affiliating with any sponsors donating content
> and presenting an independent image on the webpage.
>
>
> *Signed-off-by:*
> <https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/TRAINING/Podling+Reports#signed-off-by>
>
>-  (training) Craig Russell
>Comments:
>
>-  (training) Christofer Dutz
>Comments:
>
>-  (training) Justin Mclean
>Comments:
>
>-  (training) Lars Francke
>Comments:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Dr. rer. nat. Mirko Kämpf
> Müchelner Str. 23
> 06259 Frankleben

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Re: [MENTORS] Late podling reports

[Lars Francke]

Hi Calvin,

I'm really sorry about the missing training report.
We did submit one for April. It's been so long for me but I thought
once per quarter was enough?
Can you remind me again please.

Cheers,
Lars


On Fri, Jun 9, 2023 at 1:33 PM Calvin Kirs  wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> We are missing reports from:
> - Toree
> - Training
> Toree and Traning also didn't submit their reports last month. Would
> it be possible for the mentor or PPMC to remind them about it?
>
> --
> Best wishes！
> CalvinKirs
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
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>

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Re: [VOTE] Graduate Apache StreamPieps to a TLP

[Lars Francke]

+1 (binding)

On Sun, Nov 6, 2022 at 10:32 PM Dominik Riemer  wrote:

> Hi everyone,
>
> following the [DISCUSS] thread at [0], I'd like to call a vote to graduate
> StreamPipes to a TLP.
>
> Please vote accordingly:
>
> [ ] +1 Apache StreamPipes (incubating) is ready to graduate from the
> Apache Incubator to a TLP.
>
> [ ] +0 No opinion.
>
> [ ] -1 Apache StreamPipes (Incubating) is not ready to graduate (please
> state reasons)
>
> Thank you for participating in the vote!
>
> Cheers
> Dominik
>
>
> ---
> Project highlights
> ---
>
> * Incubating since 2019-11-11
> * 5 releases (0.66.0, 0.67.0, 0.68.0, 0.69.0, 0.70.0)
> * 3 different release managers
> * 13 PPMC members (almost all from different organizations), including 5
> mentors
> * 8 additional committers
> * active community with all discussions happening on the mailing list and
> dedicated user mailing list as support channel
> * community building & talks at ACNA19, 20, 21, 22 + Asia, SF Big Data
> Analytics and many other webinars
> * over 9.000 commits
> * 52 subscribers on the dev list, 57 subscribers on the users list
> * Articles about StreamPipes in the US Linux Magazine [4], and StreamPipes
> was named one of the
> top 5 open source tools for IoT Analytics by OpenSourceForU [5]
> * Number of Github stars has increased to currently 350
> * Website [6], extensive documentation [7] and a developer wiki [8]
> * Strong connection and integration with other projects in the Apache IoT
> space (e.g., PLC4X)
> * Completed maturity self-assessment [9]
>
>
> ---
> Draft resolution
> ---
>
> Establish the Apache StreamPipes Project
>
> WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems it to be in the best interests of
> the Foundation and consistent with the Foundation's purpose to establish
> a Project Management Committee charged with the creation and maintenance
> of open-source software, for distribution at no charge to the public,
> related to a self-service Industrial IoT toolbox which enables
> non-technical users to connect, analyze and explore IoT
> data streams.
>
> NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that a Project Management Committee
> (PMC), to be known as the "Apache StreamPipes Project", be and hereby is
> established pursuant to Bylaws of the Foundation; and be it further
>
> RESOLVED, that the Apache StreamPipes Project be and hereby is
> responsible for the creation and maintenance of software related to a
> self-service Industrial IoT toolbox which enables non-technical users to
> connect, analyze and explore IoT data streams; and be it
> further
>
> RESOLVED, that the office of "Vice President, Apache StreamPipes" be and
> hereby is created, the person holding such office to serve at the
> direction of the Board of Directors as the chair of the Apache
> StreamPipes Project, and to have primary responsibility for management
> of the projects within the scope of responsibility of the Apache
> StreamPipes Project; and be it further
>
> RESOLVED, that the persons listed immediately below be and hereby are
> appointed to serve as the initial members of the Apache StreamPipes
> Project:
>
> * Christofer Dutz 
> * Dominik Riemer 
> * Grainier Perera 
> * Jean-Baptiste Onofré 
> * Johannes Tex 
> * Julian Feinauer 
> * Justin Mclean 
> * Kenneth Knowles 
> * Marco Heyden 
> * Patrick Wiener 
> * Philipp Zehnder 
> * Stefan Obermeier 
> * Tim Bossenmaier 
>
> NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that Philipp Zehnder be
> appointed to the office of Vice President, Apache StreamPipes, to serve
> in accordance with and subject to the direction of the Board of
> Directors and the Bylaws of the Foundation until death, resignation,
> retirement, removal or disqualification, or until a successor is
> appointed; and be it further
>
> RESOLVED, that the Apache StreamPipes Project be and hereby is tasked
> with the migration and rationalization of the Apache Incubator
> StreamPipes podling; and be it further
>
> RESOLVED, that all responsibilities pertaining to the Apache Incubator
> StreamPipes podling encumbered upon the Apache Incubator PMC are
> hereafter discharged.
>
> ---
>
> [0] https://lists.apache.org/thread/dg3z175h2szcg3wgz9tmq770krvscvp8
>
> [1] https://lists.apache.org/thread/18vgpw0jq93rwh9mj9bb27nj7gjhmldg
>
> [2] https://lists.apache.org/thread/q6n11kfmmj1vgo6vq19nq1km5p1vow28
>
> [3] https://lists.apache.org/thread/5ybqmx8z768ksdymz2h2gjsx91p1drpp
>
> [4] https://www.linux-magazine.com/Issues/2021/244/Apache-StreamPipes
>
> [5]
> https://www.opensourceforu.com/2020/12/top-5-open-source-tools-for-iot-analytics/
>
> [6] https://streampipes.apache.org/
>
> [7] https://streampipes.apache.org/docs/docs/user-guide-introduction.html
>
> [8]
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/STREAMPIPES/Apache+StreamPipes+%28incubating%29+Developer+Wiki
>
> [9]
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/STREAMPIPES/StreamPipes+Maturity+Checklist
>
> 

Re: Donation of subproject for PLC4X

[Lars Francke]

Hi,

while a name search is not necessary I'm sure you're aware that there's
already an Apache Crunch project which _might_ confuse people even though
this is supposed to become a subproject. I don't know anything about the
project but some subprojects are later spun out as TLPs.
I'm not sure if Crunch is still actively being worked on or moving to the
Attic soon but I just wanted to point it out.

Cheers,
Lars

On Wed, Oct 2, 2019 at 3:19 PM Julian Feinauer 
wrote:

> Thanks Bertrand,
>
> I will start editing the IP Clearance Form then!
>
> Julian
>
> Am 02.10.19, 14:36 schrieb "Bertrand Delacretaz" <
> bdelacre...@codeconsult.ch>:
>
> Hi,
>
> On Wed, Oct 2, 2019 at 1:59 PM Julian Feinauer
>  wrote:
> > my company decided to donate our project CRUNCH [1] that has been
> developed internally to the ASF
>
> > ...We need to find a name and go through namesearch, or?...
>
> No, that's only for Apache PMCs which need to have a suitable name.
>
> IOW if your module is called "Apache PLC4X Foo" you don't need to do a
> name search on "Foo".
>
> > And also we need to do IP Clearance, or?
>
> Yes, see https://incubator.apache.org/ip-clearance/
>
> -Bertrand
>
>
>

Re: overzealous bureaucracy (was: [VOTE] Zipkin leave incubator, return back to OpenZipkin)

[Lars Francke]

Honestly, I don't know. I agree that Github++ might not have been the best
term but as I said: I didn't think this through to the end.

I guess (all of this is a bunch of unfinished ideas) what it boils down to
is that we can do the incubation outside of the ASF.

I didn't even think about what you read into my statements, to be honest
but only as a "path" into the ASF. This is getting philosophical.

On Thu, Jun 20, 2019 at 11:44 AM Greg Stein  wrote:

> On Thu, Jun 20, 2019 at 4:33 AM Ted Dunning  wrote:
>
> > On Thu, Jun 20, 2019 at 1:59 AM Greg Stein  wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > > On Thu, Jun 20, 2019 at 9:38 AM Lars Francke  >
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > This is very much not thought through to the end. One question
> raised
> > > for
> > > > > example is whether projects would even want to become a TLP.
> > > > > The mission states: "We do this by providing services and support
> for
> > > > many
> > > > > like-minded software project communities consisting of individuals
> > who
> > > > > choose to participate in ASF activities."
> > > > > I don't see anything in there requiring anyone to "join" (I
> remember
> > > the
> > > > > recent discussions about that). If you sign up to Github you're not
> > all
> > > > of
> > > > > a sudden a "Github project" but still benefit from its services.
> > > > >
> > > > > We could do something similar.
> > > >
> > > > Do I understand correctly that you're proposing a sort of "indefinite
> > > > incubation" for projects which want to benefit from our infra but
> don't
> > > > want to follow one or more of the principles we have deemed important
> > to
> > > > producing open source software?
> > > >
> > > ...
> > > I don't see Lars suggesting allowing such projects. There would still
> be
> > a
> > > Proposal, and retirement is still an option.
> >
> >
> > Actually, I think that he quite literally did suggest what he called
> > github++ where projects would be free to make releases based on whatever
> > rules that they chose and to not all themselves apache projects for as
> long
> > as they like.
> >
> > I am with Myrle. That isn't what we want. There has to be some ooomph
> > toward becoming an Apache project.
> >
>
> I totally agree. Just saying I didn't read Lars that way.  *shrug*
>

Re: overzealous bureaucracy (was: [VOTE] Zipkin leave incubator, return back to OpenZipkin)

[Lars Francke]

This was also discussed on the ASF slack during which I suggested (this is
not fully thought through) to change the Incubator model to focus on its
core tenets of providing services to projects wanting to join the ASF.
For this cause, the projects itself don't need to be ASF projects (not even
Apache Foo but just Foo). They don't have to use the ASF infrastructure but
they can if they want but probably under a different domain/name.

This is like Github++, you can still use everything there (or Gitlab or
whatever) but you also get the community, people to help you out, mailing
lists, etc.
But you wouldn't need to do any voting on releases, no reports for the
board, no NOTICE or DISCLAIMER files etc.

Projects wishing to join the ASF as a TLP would then at some point need to
abide by the rules (some of which probably also don't make sense but that's
a different discussion) but until then Mentors could just provide hints
instead of -1 or strongly worded mails. "Hey, I see you're doing releases
like this, if you'd like to join as a TLP you need a vote on releases and
it works like this, wanna try next time?"

This is very much not thought through to the end. One question raised for
example is whether projects would even want to become a TLP.
The mission states: "We do this by providing services and support for many
like-minded software project communities consisting of individuals who
choose to participate in ASF activities."
I don't see anything in there requiring anyone to "join" (I remember the
recent discussions about that). If you sign up to Github you're not all of
a sudden a "Github project" but still benefit from its services.

We could do something similar.

On Thu, Jun 20, 2019 at 3:48 AM Olivier Lamy  wrote:

> Good effort Bertrand that's definitely some discussions we should have and
> ease incubation!
> To be honest I'm mentoring some projects but sometimes I'm out of
> motivation due to the huge number of nitpicking tasks/requests.
> I perfectly understand people reactions when they try to go trough the
> incubation process.. (disclaimer it's an email from the peanut gallery)
>
> So yes let's make Apache incubation great again..
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, 20 Jun 2019 at 03:28, Bertrand Delacretaz <
> bdelacre...@codeconsult.ch> wrote:
>
> > On Wed, Jun 19, 2019 at 7:14 PM Ted Dunning 
> wrote:
> > > ...This vote is *confirming* that
> > > nobody has objections (of any form) to Zipkin leaving and control of
> the
> > > git repos being transferred...
> >
> > I agree and this means that in this case a [LAZY] vote would have been
> > sufficient.
> >
> > -Bertrand
> >
> > -
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
> >
> >
>
> --
> Olivier Lamy
> http://twitter.com/olamy | http://linkedin.com/in/olamy
>

Re: [VOTE] Zipkin leave incubator, return back to OpenZipkin

[Lars Francke]

+1 (binding)

On Tue, Jun 18, 2019 at 3:22 AM Sheng Wu  wrote:

> Hi
>
> This is a call for official vote of Zipkin leave from incubator, and
> return back to OpenZipkin.
>
> PPMC have voted.[1], carried two IPMC +1 vote from Sheng Wu and Willem
> Jiang
>
> There is no trademark, logo transfer, so, Zipkin community is OK to still
> use the name(io.zipkin or zipkin + xxx) and logo.
> `org.apache.zipkin` is not allowed or going to be used.
> All 9 repositories(GitHub repo) will be transferred back to OpenZipkin
> org(GitHub).
> incubator-zipkin --> https://github.com/openzipkin/zipkin
> ncubator-zipkin-dependencies -->
> https://github.com/openzipkin/zipkin-dependencies
> incubator-zipkin-api --> https://github.com/openzipkin/zipkin-api
> incubator-zipkin-b3-propagation -->
> https://github.com/openzipkin/b3-propagation
> incubator-zipkin-reporter-java -->
> https://github.com/openzipkin/zipkin-reporter-java
> incubator-zipkin-brave --> https://github.com/openzipkin/brave
> incubator-zipkin-brave-cassandra -->
> https://github.com/openzipkin/brave-cassandra
> incubator-zipkin-brave-karaf --> https://github.com/openzipkin/brave-karaf
> incubator-zipkin-layout-factory -->
> https://github.com/openzipkin/zipkin-layout-factory
>
> Voting will start now (2019-6-18 9:20 UTC+8) and will remain open 72 hours
> only for consensus, Request all IPMC members to give their vote.
> [ ] +1 Agree
> [ ] +0 No opinion.
> [ ] -1 Do not agree because
>
> [1]
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/fbeb254f569d9852e9740d55532ee338580287ec384e26c7d9107964@%3Cdev.zipkin.apache.org%3E
> <
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/fbeb254f569d9852e9740d55532ee338580287ec384e26c7d9107964@%3Cdev.zipkin.apache.org%3E
> >
>
>
>
> Sheng Wu
> Apache Skywalking, ShardingSphere, Zipkin
>
>
>
>

Re: Podling report due

[Lars Francke]

I just added Training. We had it prepared and I just forgot to copy it
over, sorry.

On Fri, May 3, 2019 at 3:46 AM Justin Mclean 
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> We’re still missing:
> Milagro
> Toree
>
> Mentors please remind your podlings that it needs to be in today. Milagro
> missed reporting last month as well.
>
> Several others have not been submitted but I know they are being worked
> on, so please get them in today.
>
> Thanks,
> Justin
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>
>

Re: List of Projects that went straight to Top Level Projects

[Lars Francke]

>
>
> Straight to TLP:
>   Bahir, DRAT, Kibble, Orc, Serf, STeVe, Whimsy, Zest
>

ORC was spun out of Hive as far as I remember.

Re: [VOTE] introduce "[DISCUSS]" threads for podling releases

[Lars Francke]

+1 (binding)

Just one question: Where/how do you plan on documenting this?

On Wed, Mar 13, 2019 at 9:53 AM Furkan KAMACI 
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> +1 from me too!
>
> Kind Regards,
> Furkan KAMACI
>
> On Wed, Mar 13, 2019 at 11:50 AM 吴晟 Sheng Wu  wrote:
>
> > > Amendment:
> > > "A non-ASF release
> > > * May or may not be staged on ASF infrastructure for the purposes of a
> > > vote, but it is distributed via non-ASF infrastructure, AND
> > > * Is either not linked from a podling's website, or is linked but
> clearly
> > > marked as a non-ASF release.”
> >
> >
> > +1 (binding) from me. Make sense.
> >
> >
> > --
> > Sheng Wu
> > Apache SkyWalking, ShardingSphere, Zipkin
> > Twitter, wusheng1108
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -- Original --
> > From:  "justin";
> > Date:  Wed, Mar 13, 2019 04:41 PM
> > To:  "general";
> >
> > Subject:  Re: [VOTE] introduce "[DISCUSS]" threads for podling releases
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > +1 (binding)
> >
> > > Amendment:
> > > "A non-ASF release
> > > * May or may not be staged on ASF infrastructure for the purposes of a
> > > vote, but it is distributed via non-ASF infrastructure, AND
> > > * Is either not linked from a podling's website, or is linked but
> clearly
> > > marked as a non-ASF release.”
> >
> > Sounds reasonable to me, thanks for updating it.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Justin
> > -
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
>

Re: March Board report

[Lars Francke]

Hi Justin,

not sure if you want us to edit typos etc. directly or whether you want
them listed here?

Cheers,
Lars

On Thu, Mar 7, 2019 at 11:06 PM Justin Mclean 
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> While I'm yet to fill in some of the mechanical items (releases and the
> like) some feedback on the report would be appreciated. [1]
>
> Just keep in mind that it covers what happened in February and doesn’t
> need to include the most recent events as those go in the next report.
>
> Thanks,
> Justin
>
> 1. https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/March2019
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>
>

Re: Whimsy general@ subs check (was: [DISCUSS] introduce "[DISCUSS]" threads for podling non-ASF release candidates)

[Lars Francke]

Greg,

thank you for taking the time to elaborate. I'm afraid I still don't
understand.

I understand that this is how it's currently set up. But these are our
rules, we can change them. There's no law involved here, right?

The way I see it: One problem we're trying to solve is too many people in
the Incubator IPMC, and if there are lots of ASF members in the IPMC just
so they can vote on new podlings let's make a new rule that members are
allowed to vote on it without joining the IPMC. Joining is just an
administrative process the way it is set up now. There's no merit involved
(other than the merit that needs to be proven to become a member in the
first place).

But there's a good chance I still misunderstand.

Cheers,
Lars

On Fri, Mar 1, 2019 at 4:20 PM Greg Stein  wrote:

> On Fri, Mar 1, 2019 at 9:04 AM Lars Francke 
> wrote:
>
> > On Fri, Mar 1, 2019 at 3:05 PM Greg Stein  wrote:
> >
> > > On Fri, Mar 1, 2019 at 7:00 AM Lars Francke 
> > > wrote:
> > > >...
> > >
> > > > As far as I know every member can become IPMC member. So if we change
> > the
> > > > rules that every member vote is binding (whether or not they are in
> the
> > > > IPMC) people wouldn't need to join the club.
> > > >
> > >
> > > The legal structure passes through the IPMC. Members are irrelevant in
> > this
> > > scenario.
> > >
> >
> > I'm not sure I understand. But either way I don't believe members are
> > irrelevant. Looking at the Incubator site[1] it says "Foundation members
> > may willingly join the IPMC at any time, [...]" and if they do only to
> vote
> > but not to participate in any other way then that would be one way to
> > reduce membership (by allowing them to vote without being IPMC members)
> >
> > Maybe you can rephrase your comment for me? I may misunderstand.
> >
>
> The legal structure of the Foundation is built upon oversight from the
> Board, to the PMCs, to the communities. The individuals who reside within
> the IPMC are ... individuals.
>
> If Members happen to be individuals that are participating within the IPMC,
> that is wholly orthogonal to everything constructed. Yes, the IPMC gives
> them preferential treatment to *join* the IPMC, but they are peers, just
> like every other person in the community.
>
> The legal structure is built upon a PMC providing (3) +1 votes on a
> release. To be clear: PMC Members. Those with responsibility around the
> community producing the release.
>
> Foundation Members have zero say in any of the technical communities. None.
> They must earn their merit, and join a PMC to get a binding vote. Their
> Membership in the Foundation does not give them any privilege. So, no... a
> Foundation Member should not get a privileged vote within the Incubator
> PMC.
>
> Expand it more broadly: the Board is the representative group of the
> Members. They completely and actively shun any attempt to direct/vote in
> the technical communities. There are two very distinct groups: those in the
> technical communities, and those assisting with the Foundation's
> administrative side. Members are in the latter, and they should not get a
> vote in Incubator/podling releases. They must *join* the technical
> community, via merit, to be afforded that right.
>
> Cheers,
> -g
>

Re: Whimsy general@ subs check (was: [DISCUSS] introduce "[DISCUSS]" threads for podling non-ASF release candidates)

[Lars Francke]

On Fri, Mar 1, 2019 at 3:05 PM Greg Stein  wrote:

> On Fri, Mar 1, 2019 at 7:00 AM Lars Francke 
> wrote:
> >...
>
> > As far as I know every member can become IPMC member. So if we change the
> > rules that every member vote is binding (whether or not they are in the
> > IPMC) people wouldn't need to join the club.
> >
>
> The legal structure passes through the IPMC. Members are irrelevant in this
> scenario.
>

I'm not sure I understand. But either way I don't believe members are
irrelevant. Looking at the Incubator site[1] it says "Foundation members
may willingly join the IPMC at any time, [...]" and if they do only to vote
but not to participate in any other way then that would be one way to
reduce membership (by allowing them to vote without being IPMC members)

Maybe you can rephrase your comment for me? I may misunderstand.


>
> Cheers,
> -g
>

Re: Whimsy general@ subs check (was: [DISCUSS] introduce "[DISCUSS]" threads for podling non-ASF release candidates)

[Lars Francke]

If only some people are like me they joined to support a specific podling
by giving their +1 on a vote. I did the same, then went silent for a year
or so and am only now starting to get interested in the Incubator workings
again.

Maybe if we could change the requirements on binding votes for podling
proposals we wouldn't need as many people in the IPMC?
As far as I know every member can become IPMC member. So if we change the
rules that every member vote is binding (whether or not they are in the
IPMC) people wouldn't need to join the club.

On Fri, Mar 1, 2019 at 1:50 PM Myrle Krantz  wrote:

> On Fri, Mar 1, 2019 at 12:33 AM Justin Mclean 
> wrote:
>
> >
> > And most probably do not participate. Would asking for those 100 odd
> > people to be removed come across as friendly?
> >
>
> I'd be +1 on removing them.  a.) While kindness towards our fellow PMC
> members is important, the role of the Incubator is to be friendly to
> incoming projects. b.) It's not unkind to our fellow PMC members.  They are
> welcome to come back when they're ready.
>
> But I also don't think it's going to solve anything.  Those people aren't
> contributing to solutions *or* problems.
>
> Best,
> Myrle
>

Re: Changes to Website and Marking As Obsolete SVN Version of Incubator Website

[Lars Francke]

Yes please, thank you!

I asked about this a few weeks ago as this had me very confused!
<
https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/42cd652f4621d55d5de51c5e84b39c1677ef92310e6f626a3b794574@%3Cgeneral.incubator.apache.org%3E
>

On Thu, Feb 28, 2019 at 7:37 PM Dave Fisher  wrote:

> Hi -
>
> I’ve been reviewing the incubator’s svn repository. In order to avoid
> confusion I am going to add README.txt files to directories (eg. [1]) which
> are now obsolete, but not obviously so.
>
> I’ve been doing so since there is no documentation on maintaining the
> content/podling/${podling}.yml files which are used by Whimsy to display
> licensing progress. I see now that in the git repos [2] that mentor.ad
> and website.ad will need to be updated.
>
> I’m planning to look at this next week and am giving the community a heads
> up. If there are suggestions for these and other changes to these pages
> then let me know.
>
> Regards,
> Dave
>
> [1] https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/public/trunk/content/guides
> 
> [2] https://gitbox.apache.org/repos/asf?p=incubator.git;a=summary <
> https://gitbox.apache.org/repos/asf?p=incubator.git;a=summary>
>
>

Re: [VOTE] Accept Training into the Apache Incubator

[Lars Francke]

The mailing lists have been created and we're good to go. Please send a
mail to dev-subscr...@training.apache.org if you want to subscribe and
would like to join the discussion.

On Fri, Feb 22, 2019 at 1:10 AM Greg Stein  wrote:

> On Wed, Feb 13, 2019 at 4:45 AM Gosling Von  wrote:
>
> > +1 binding,
> >
> > It seems to be some overlapping duty with Apache Infra.
>
>
> If there is any overlap, then Infra is MORE than happy to turn it over to
> Training. We keep systems alive and running; content development is not our
> focus.
>
> Cheers,
> Greg Stein
> Infrastructure Administrator, ASF
>

Re: [VOTE] Accept Training into the Apache Incubator

[Lars Francke]

No more comments.

So: The vote is closed. Thank you everyone.

We now have a "Training (incubating)" project at the ASF!

Justin seems to have gone ahead and started the process of getting
resources created already.

On Wed, Feb 20, 2019 at 8:57 AM Lars Francke  wrote:

> The vote for accepting "Training" into the Apache Incubator passes* with
> 21 binding +1 votes, 6 non-binding +1 votes and no other votes.
> * Because of the late addition of Jim to the Proposal I'll leave everyone
> another 24h to object (we are in no rush) before I'll go and make this
> official.
>
> Thanks for voting!
>
> 21 binding +1 votes:
> Bernd Fondermann
> Bertrand Delacretaz
> Christofer Dutz
> Felix Cheung
> Furkan Kamaci
> .
> Henry Saputra
> Jim Jagielski
> Justin Mclean
> Kenneth Knowles
> Kevin A. McGrail
> .
> Lars Francke
> Liang Chen
> Matt Sicker
> Mohammad Asif Siddiqui
> Myrle Krantz
> .
> Paul King
> Sharan Foga
> Thomas Weise
> Vinayakumar B
> Von Gosling
> .
> Woonsan Ko
>
>
> 6 non-binding +1 votes:
> Brahma Reddy Battula
> Ciprian Borodescu
> Dmitriy Pavlov
> Hans-Peter Zorn
> Julian Feinauer
> .
> Sönke Liebau
>
>
> Thank you everyone,
> Lars
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 13, 2019 at 8:57 AM Lars Francke 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi everyone,
>>
>> we've discussed the proposal for the Training project in [1] and [2]. The
>> proposal itself can be found on the wiki[3].
>>
>> According to the Incubator rules[4] I'd like to call a vote to accept the
>> new "Training" project as a podling in the Apache Incubator.
>>
>> A vote for accepting a new Apache Incubator podling is a majority vote.
>> Everyone is welcome to vote, only Incubator PMC member votes are
>> binding. It would be helpful (but not required) if you could add a comment
>> stating whether your vote is binding or non-binding.
>>
>> This vote will run for at least 72 hours (but I expect to keep it open
>> for longer). Please VOTE as follows:
>>
>> [ ] +1 Accept Training into the Apache Incubator
>> [ ] +0 Abstain
>> [ ] -1 Do not accept Training into the Apache Incubator because ...
>>
>> Thank you for everyone who decided to join in in the past discussions!
>> Lars
>>
>> [1] <
>> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/5c00016b769135cc302bb2ce4e5f6bbfeeda933a07e9c38b5017d651@%3Cgeneral.incubator.apache.org%3E
>> >
>>
>> [2] <
>> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/9cb4d7eef73e0d526e0124944c3d37325aa892675351a1eed0a25de3@%3Cgeneral.incubator.apache.org%3E
>> >
>>
>> [3] <https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/TrainingProposal#preview>
>>
>> [4] <
>> https://incubator.apache.org/policy/incubation.html#approval_of_proposal_by_sponsor
>> >
>>
>

Re: [VOTE] Accept Training into the Apache Incubator

[Lars Francke]

The vote for accepting "Training" into the Apache Incubator passes* with 21
binding +1 votes, 6 non-binding +1 votes and no other votes.
* Because of the late addition of Jim to the Proposal I'll leave everyone
another 24h to object (we are in no rush) before I'll go and make this
official.

Thanks for voting!

21 binding +1 votes:
Bernd Fondermann
Bertrand Delacretaz
Christofer Dutz
Felix Cheung
Furkan Kamaci
.
Henry Saputra
Jim Jagielski
Justin Mclean
Kenneth Knowles
Kevin A. McGrail
.
Lars Francke
Liang Chen
Matt Sicker
Mohammad Asif Siddiqui
Myrle Krantz
.
Paul King
Sharan Foga
Thomas Weise
Vinayakumar B
Von Gosling
.
Woonsan Ko


6 non-binding +1 votes:
Brahma Reddy Battula
Ciprian Borodescu
Dmitriy Pavlov
Hans-Peter Zorn
Julian Feinauer
.
Sönke Liebau


Thank you everyone,
Lars


On Wed, Feb 13, 2019 at 8:57 AM Lars Francke  wrote:

> Hi everyone,
>
> we've discussed the proposal for the Training project in [1] and [2]. The
> proposal itself can be found on the wiki[3].
>
> According to the Incubator rules[4] I'd like to call a vote to accept the
> new "Training" project as a podling in the Apache Incubator.
>
> A vote for accepting a new Apache Incubator podling is a majority vote.
> Everyone is welcome to vote, only Incubator PMC member votes are binding.
> It would be helpful (but not required) if you could add a comment stating
> whether your vote is binding or non-binding.
>
> This vote will run for at least 72 hours (but I expect to keep it open
> for longer). Please VOTE as follows:
>
> [ ] +1 Accept Training into the Apache Incubator
> [ ] +0 Abstain
> [ ] -1 Do not accept Training into the Apache Incubator because ...
>
> Thank you for everyone who decided to join in in the past discussions!
> Lars
>
> [1] <
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/5c00016b769135cc302bb2ce4e5f6bbfeeda933a07e9c38b5017d651@%3Cgeneral.incubator.apache.org%3E
> >
>
> [2] <
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/9cb4d7eef73e0d526e0124944c3d37325aa892675351a1eed0a25de3@%3Cgeneral.incubator.apache.org%3E
> >
>
> [3] <https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/TrainingProposal#preview>
>
> [4] <
> https://incubator.apache.org/policy/incubation.html#approval_of_proposal_by_sponsor
> >
>

Re: [VOTE] Accept Training into the Apache Incubator

[Lars Francke]

I have added Jim.

If there are any objections to this please let me know. I'm now going to
count the votes.

On Tue, Feb 19, 2019 at 10:29 PM Henry Saputra 
wrote:

> +1 (binding)
>
> Good luck guys
>
> On Tue, Feb 12, 2019 at 11:58 PM Lars Francke 
> wrote:
>
> > Hi everyone,
> >
> > we've discussed the proposal for the Training project in [1] and [2]. The
> > proposal itself can be found on the wiki[3].
> >
> > According to the Incubator rules[4] I'd like to call a vote to accept the
> > new "Training" project as a podling in the Apache Incubator.
> >
> > A vote for accepting a new Apache Incubator podling is a majority vote.
> > Everyone is welcome to vote, only Incubator PMC member votes are binding.
> > It would be helpful (but not required) if you could add a comment stating
> > whether your vote is binding or non-binding.
> >
> > This vote will run for at least 72 hours (but I expect to keep it open
> for
> > longer). Please VOTE as follows:
> >
> > [ ] +1 Accept Training into the Apache Incubator
> > [ ] +0 Abstain
> > [ ] -1 Do not accept Training into the Apache Incubator because ...
> >
> > Thank you for everyone who decided to join in in the past discussions!
> > Lars
> >
> > [1] <
> >
> >
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/5c00016b769135cc302bb2ce4e5f6bbfeeda933a07e9c38b5017d651@%3Cgeneral.incubator.apache.org%3E
> > >
> >
> > [2] <
> >
> >
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/9cb4d7eef73e0d526e0124944c3d37325aa892675351a1eed0a25de3@%3Cgeneral.incubator.apache.org%3E
> > >
> >
> > [3] <https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/TrainingProposal#preview>
> >
> > [4] <
> >
> >
> https://incubator.apache.org/policy/incubation.html#approval_of_proposal_by_sponsor
> > >
> >
>

Re: [VOTE] Accept Training into the Apache Incubator

[Lars Francke]

I'd be happy to add you but I have honestly no idea what the rules say
about changing a proposal after the vote has already started?

On Tue, Feb 19, 2019 at 2:59 PM Jim Jagielski  wrote:

> PS: I'd also like to be added to the initial Contributor's list, if
> possible.
>
> > On Feb 19, 2019, at 8:51 AM, Jim Jagielski  wrote:
> >
> > +1 (binding)
> >
> >> On Feb 13, 2019, at 2:57 AM, Lars Francke 
> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi everyone,
> >>
> >> we've discussed the proposal for the Training project in [1] and [2].
> The
> >> proposal itself can be found on the wiki[3].
> >>
> >> According to the Incubator rules[4] I'd like to call a vote to accept
> the
> >> new "Training" project as a podling in the Apache Incubator.
> >>
> >> A vote for accepting a new Apache Incubator podling is a majority vote.
> >> Everyone is welcome to vote, only Incubator PMC member votes are
> binding.
> >> It would be helpful (but not required) if you could add a comment
> stating
> >> whether your vote is binding or non-binding.
> >>
> >> This vote will run for at least 72 hours (but I expect to keep it open
> for
> >> longer). Please VOTE as follows:
> >>
> >> [ ] +1 Accept Training into the Apache Incubator
> >> [ ] +0 Abstain
> >> [ ] -1 Do not accept Training into the Apache Incubator because ...
> >>
> >> Thank you for everyone who decided to join in in the past discussions!
> >> Lars
> >>
> >> [1] <
> >>
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/5c00016b769135cc302bb2ce4e5f6bbfeeda933a07e9c38b5017d651@%3Cgeneral.incubator.apache.org%3E
> >>>
> >>
> >> [2] <
> >>
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/9cb4d7eef73e0d526e0124944c3d37325aa892675351a1eed0a25de3@%3Cgeneral.incubator.apache.org%3E
> >>>
> >>
> >> [3] <https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/TrainingProposal#preview>
> >>
> >> [4] <
> >>
> https://incubator.apache.org/policy/incubation.html#approval_of_proposal_by_sponsor
> >>>
> >
>
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
>
>

Incubator Git vs SVN

[Lars Francke]

I'm trying to read up as much as I can on the Incubator (podling startup)
processes and it took me surprisingly long to find the podlings.xml file
that's referred to in some places.

This lead me to dig into the SVN structure and I found that the Incubator
also has a Git repository.

Can someone clarify whether the content in SVN is still being used for the
website?

I find it confusing to find information about the Incubator source control
in "PMC Guides -> Updating the top-level Incubator website" as it contains
more information than just website related stuff.

In my opinion the Incubator should follow the model of most/lots of
projects which have a "Community", "Development", "General Information"
etc. menu which lists all the information for a project in a single place:
Issue tracking, version control, mailing lists, etc.

If other agree I can try to change this when I have time.

Thanks,
Lars

Re: [VOTE] Accept Training into the Apache Incubator

[Lars Francke]

Would you mind bringing this up either in the DISCUSS thread or after we've
started (it looks like we're good to go) on the mailing lists there. I
touched on this in the proposal and received no comments during the
discussion phase.

On Fri, Feb 15, 2019 at 6:07 AM Brahma Reddy Battula 
wrote:

> +1 (non-Binding).
>
> Gone through discussion thread, it will greatly help in knowing the
> ecosystem.
> May we can extend to certification also..?
>
> On Fri, Feb 15, 2019 at 1:08 AM Kenneth Knowles  wrote:
>
> > +1 (binding)
> >
> > Looking forward to this.
> >
> > On Thu, Feb 14, 2019 at 11:11 AM Woonsan Ko  wrote:
> >
> > > +1 (binding)
> > >
> > > Cool!
> > >
> > > Woonsan
> > >
> > > On Wed, Feb 13, 2019 at 2:58 AM Lars Francke 
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi everyone,
> > > >
> > > > we've discussed the proposal for the Training project in [1] and [2].
> > The
> > > > proposal itself can be found on the wiki[3].
> > > >
> > > > According to the Incubator rules[4] I'd like to call a vote to accept
> > the
> > > > new "Training" project as a podling in the Apache Incubator.
> > > >
> > > > A vote for accepting a new Apache Incubator podling is a majority
> vote.
> > > > Everyone is welcome to vote, only Incubator PMC member votes are
> > binding.
> > > > It would be helpful (but not required) if you could add a comment
> > stating
> > > > whether your vote is binding or non-binding.
> > > >
> > > > This vote will run for at least 72 hours (but I expect to keep it
> open
> > > for
> > > > longer). Please VOTE as follows:
> > > >
> > > > [ ] +1 Accept Training into the Apache Incubator
> > > > [ ] +0 Abstain
> > > > [ ] -1 Do not accept Training into the Apache Incubator because ...
> > > >
> > > > Thank you for everyone who decided to join in in the past
> discussions!
> > > > Lars
> > > >
> > > > [1] <
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/5c00016b769135cc302bb2ce4e5f6bbfeeda933a07e9c38b5017d651@%3Cgeneral.incubator.apache.org%3E
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > [2] <
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/9cb4d7eef73e0d526e0124944c3d37325aa892675351a1eed0a25de3@%3Cgeneral.incubator.apache.org%3E
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > [3] <https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/TrainingProposal#preview>
> > > >
> > > > [4] <
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://incubator.apache.org/policy/incubation.html#approval_of_proposal_by_sponsor
> > > > >
> > >
> > > -
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
> --
> --Brahma Reddy Battula
>

Re: [VOTE] Accept Training into the Apache Incubator

[Lars Francke]

Hello everyone,

thank you for voting so far. We have already had more than the 72 hours but
I won't get around to do much until Wednesday this week so it doesn't hurt
to leave this open for two more days.

That said we already have more than enough vote for a successful outcome.

Thank you,
Lars

On Wed, Feb 13, 2019 at 8:57 AM Lars Francke  wrote:

> Hi everyone,
>
> we've discussed the proposal for the Training project in [1] and [2]. The
> proposal itself can be found on the wiki[3].
>
> According to the Incubator rules[4] I'd like to call a vote to accept the
> new "Training" project as a podling in the Apache Incubator.
>
> A vote for accepting a new Apache Incubator podling is a majority vote.
> Everyone is welcome to vote, only Incubator PMC member votes are binding.
> It would be helpful (but not required) if you could add a comment stating
> whether your vote is binding or non-binding.
>
> This vote will run for at least 72 hours (but I expect to keep it open
> for longer). Please VOTE as follows:
>
> [ ] +1 Accept Training into the Apache Incubator
> [ ] +0 Abstain
> [ ] -1 Do not accept Training into the Apache Incubator because ...
>
> Thank you for everyone who decided to join in in the past discussions!
> Lars
>
> [1] <
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/5c00016b769135cc302bb2ce4e5f6bbfeeda933a07e9c38b5017d651@%3Cgeneral.incubator.apache.org%3E
> >
>
> [2] <
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/9cb4d7eef73e0d526e0124944c3d37325aa892675351a1eed0a25de3@%3Cgeneral.incubator.apache.org%3E
> >
>
> [3] <https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/TrainingProposal#preview>
>
> [4] <
> https://incubator.apache.org/policy/incubation.html#approval_of_proposal_by_sponsor
> >
>

Re: [VOTE] Accept Training into the Apache Incubator

[Lars Francke]

>
> Would be interesting if this project includes training for developing
> Apache projects in any way, or would that make more sense under ComDev
> or some other project?
>

I'm not sure if I understand the question. Could you rephrase?
Do you mean training on "The Apache Way"?
And maybe also bring it up in the DISCUSS thread?


> On Wed, 13 Feb 2019 at 09:09, Dmitriy Pavlov  wrote:
> >
> > +1 (non-binding)
> >
> > ср, 13 февр. 2019 г. в 18:05, Ciprian Borodescu <
> ciprian.borode...@gmail.com
> > >:
> >
> > > +1
> > >
> > > On Wed, Feb 13, 2019 at 4:52 PM Thomas Weise  wrote:
> > >
> > > > +1 (binding)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, Feb 13, 2019, 6:40 AM Mohammad Asif Siddiqui <
> > > > asifdxtr...@apache.org>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > +1 (binding)
> > > > >
> > > > > Regards
> > > > > Asif
> > > > >
> > > > > On Wed, Feb 13, 2019 at 8:09 PM Julian Feinauer <
> > > > > j.feina...@pragmaticminds.de> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > +1 (non-binding)
> > > > > > I really liked the idea from the start and probably will find
> some
> > > time
> > > > > to
> > > > > > contribute!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Julian
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Am 13.02.19, 15:18 schrieb "Kevin A. McGrail" <
> kmcgr...@apache.org
> > > >:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > +1 Binding.  I'll also try again to get  Udacity, Udemy,
> > > Coursera,
> > > > > > Pluralsight involved now that this is going to a formal
> incubator
> > > > > > podling.
> > > > > > I am hoping once a domino falls, more will help.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Regards,
> > > > > > KAM
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > Kevin A. McGrail
> > > > > > Member, Apache Software Foundation
> > > > > > Chair Emeritus Apache SpamAssassin Project
> > > > > >     https://www.linkedin.com/in/kmcgrail - 703.798.0171
> > > <(703)%20798-0171>
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Wed, Feb 13, 2019 at 7:00 AM Vinayakumar B <
> > > > > vinayakum...@apache.org
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > +1 (binding)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > -Vinay
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Wed, Feb 13, 2019 at 4:58 PM Hans-Peter Zorn <
> > > hz...@inovex.de
> > > > >
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > +1 (non-binding)
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Looking forward to work on this!
> > > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > > > Hans-Peter
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Am 13.02.2019 um 08:57 schrieb Lars Francke <
> > > > > > lars.fran...@gmail.com>:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Hi everyone,
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > we've discussed the proposal for the Training project
> in
> > > [1]
> > > > > and
> > > > > > [2].
> > > > > > > The
> > > > > > > > > proposal itself can be found on the wiki[3].
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > According to the Incubator rules[4] I'd like to call a
> vote
> > > > to
> > > > > > accept
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > new "Training" project as a podling in the Apache
> > > Incubator.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > A vote for accepting a new Apache Incubator podling is
> a
> > > > > > maj

Re: [VOTE] Accept Training into the Apache Incubator

[Lars Francke]

I'll also add my +1 (binding)

On Wed, Feb 13, 2019 at 9:25 AM Sönke Liebau
 wrote:

> +1 (non-binding) excited about moving this forward! :)
>
> On Wed, Feb 13, 2019 at 9:20 AM Justin Mclean 
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > +1 (binding) woking forward to being involved.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Justin
> >
> > -
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
> >
>
>
> --
> Sönke Liebau
> Partner
> Tel. +49 179 7940878
> OpenCore GmbH & Co. KG - Thomas-Mann-Straße 8 - 22880 Wedel - Germany
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
>
>

[VOTE] Accept Training into the Apache Incubator

[Lars Francke]

Hi everyone,

we've discussed the proposal for the Training project in [1] and [2]. The
proposal itself can be found on the wiki[3].

According to the Incubator rules[4] I'd like to call a vote to accept the
new "Training" project as a podling in the Apache Incubator.

A vote for accepting a new Apache Incubator podling is a majority vote.
Everyone is welcome to vote, only Incubator PMC member votes are binding.
It would be helpful (but not required) if you could add a comment stating
whether your vote is binding or non-binding.

This vote will run for at least 72 hours (but I expect to keep it open for
longer). Please VOTE as follows:

[ ] +1 Accept Training into the Apache Incubator
[ ] +0 Abstain
[ ] -1 Do not accept Training into the Apache Incubator because ...

Thank you for everyone who decided to join in in the past discussions!
Lars

[1] <
https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/5c00016b769135cc302bb2ce4e5f6bbfeeda933a07e9c38b5017d651@%3Cgeneral.incubator.apache.org%3E
>

[2] <
https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/9cb4d7eef73e0d526e0124944c3d37325aa892675351a1eed0a25de3@%3Cgeneral.incubator.apache.org%3E
>

[3] 

[4] <
https://incubator.apache.org/policy/incubation.html#approval_of_proposal_by_sponsor
>

Re: [DISCUSS] Training (incubating) Proposal

[Lars Francke]

One more thing: We've got three mentors. If anyone else would like to
volunteer we won't say no :)

I've used the E-Mail addresses from your mails in the proposal. Feel free
to update to an @apache.org address if you want to.

On Fri, Feb 8, 2019 at 11:05 AM Lars Francke  wrote:

> Thanks to the three of you.
>
> Those arguments make sense to me and we indeed have a few "newcomers" with
> us (that includes me in a non-committer role) so I've changed my opinion
> and think the Incubator way would be the best.
>
> I'll edit the Wiki proposal (and add Christofer whom I've forgotten,
> sorry!) to indicate this.
>
> If there are no other comments or concerns about anything we've written in
> the proposal I would "close" this discussion soon and start a vote early
> next week.
>
> Cheers,
> Lars
>
> (as a heads up: I might be slow to respond next week due to limited
> connectivity but we're in no rush as far as I'm concerned)
>
> On Fri, Feb 8, 2019 at 10:53 AM Myrle Krantz  wrote:
>
>> My initial thought was: this should go straight to TLP: Training should be
>> done by people who know what they're training about: whether it be the
>> Apache Way or a specific project.  All the committers will likely be
>> people
>> who've at least reached committer status in a project, and most of them
>> will probably be ASF members.
>>
>> But then I thought again: developing effective materials will require
>> contact to the users of those materials.  What better place to find people
>> to QA training materials and approaches than in the incubator?  I think a
>> training project would benefit from incubator participation in a different
>> manner than most projects do, but I do think starting in the incubator
>> (and
>> possibly, after discussion, even staying there) might be a good approach
>> for this project.
>>
>> Best Regards,
>> Myrle
>>
>> On Fri, Feb 8, 2019 at 10:34 AM Sönke Liebau
>>  wrote:
>>
>> > Hi,
>> >
>> > after spending some time thinking about this I also tend towards the
>> > Incubator route as I am sure this will help build and grow an active
>> > community and processes.
>> >
>> > Best regards,
>> > Sönke
>> >
>> > On Fri, Feb 8, 2019 at 6:38 AM Justin Mclean 
>> > wrote:
>> > >
>> > > Hi,
>> > >
>> > > > discussion seems to have died down. Before moving on I'd really
>> like to
>> > > > hear the opinions of the interested contributors on which direction
>> to
>> > go.
>> > > > Otherwise we might have to put it to a vote?
>> > >
>> > > Perhaps I biased, but I think going via the incubator is alway
>> helpful.
>> > :-) The big question is would the board support the project going
>> straight
>> > to TLP? I really don’t know, it’s approved them in the past and not
>> > rejected any that I know of. What could the project do to show the board
>> > that going straight to TLP is justifiable? Perhaps start by list out how
>> > many ASF members you have on the project and and give an idea of how
>> long
>> > they been around, how many projects they gone through incubation with
>> and
>> > how active they are in the incubator and may help you decide which path
>> to
>> > go and give the board some reassurance.
>> > >
>> > > Thanks,
>> > > Justin
>> > > -
>> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
>> > > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Sönke Liebau
>> > Partner
>> > Tel. +49 179 7940878
>> > OpenCore GmbH & Co. KG - Thomas-Mann-Straße 8 - 22880 Wedel - Germany
>> >
>> > -
>> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
>> > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
>> >
>> >
>>
>

Re: [DISCUSS] Training (incubating) Proposal

[Lars Francke]

Thanks to the three of you.

Those arguments make sense to me and we indeed have a few "newcomers" with
us (that includes me in a non-committer role) so I've changed my opinion
and think the Incubator way would be the best.

I'll edit the Wiki proposal (and add Christofer whom I've forgotten,
sorry!) to indicate this.

If there are no other comments or concerns about anything we've written in
the proposal I would "close" this discussion soon and start a vote early
next week.

Cheers,
Lars

(as a heads up: I might be slow to respond next week due to limited
connectivity but we're in no rush as far as I'm concerned)

On Fri, Feb 8, 2019 at 10:53 AM Myrle Krantz  wrote:

> My initial thought was: this should go straight to TLP: Training should be
> done by people who know what they're training about: whether it be the
> Apache Way or a specific project.  All the committers will likely be people
> who've at least reached committer status in a project, and most of them
> will probably be ASF members.
>
> But then I thought again: developing effective materials will require
> contact to the users of those materials.  What better place to find people
> to QA training materials and approaches than in the incubator?  I think a
> training project would benefit from incubator participation in a different
> manner than most projects do, but I do think starting in the incubator (and
> possibly, after discussion, even staying there) might be a good approach
> for this project.
>
> Best Regards,
> Myrle
>
> On Fri, Feb 8, 2019 at 10:34 AM Sönke Liebau
>  wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > after spending some time thinking about this I also tend towards the
> > Incubator route as I am sure this will help build and grow an active
> > community and processes.
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Sönke
> >
> > On Fri, Feb 8, 2019 at 6:38 AM Justin Mclean 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > > discussion seems to have died down. Before moving on I'd really like
> to
> > > > hear the opinions of the interested contributors on which direction
> to
> > go.
> > > > Otherwise we might have to put it to a vote?
> > >
> > > Perhaps I biased, but I think going via the incubator is alway helpful.
> > :-) The big question is would the board support the project going
> straight
> > to TLP? I really don’t know, it’s approved them in the past and not
> > rejected any that I know of. What could the project do to show the board
> > that going straight to TLP is justifiable? Perhaps start by list out how
> > many ASF members you have on the project and and give an idea of how long
> > they been around, how many projects they gone through incubation with and
> > how active they are in the incubator and may help you decide which path
> to
> > go and give the board some reassurance.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Justin
> > > -
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Sönke Liebau
> > Partner
> > Tel. +49 179 7940878
> > OpenCore GmbH & Co. KG - Thomas-Mann-Straße 8 - 22880 Wedel - Germany
> >
> > -
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
> >
> >
>

Re: [DISCUSS] Training (incubating) Proposal

[Lars Francke]

Hello everyone,

discussion seems to have died down. Before moving on I'd really like to
hear the opinions of the interested contributors on which direction to go.
Otherwise we might have to put it to a vote?

Cheers,
Lars

On Mon, Feb 4, 2019 at 11:52 AM Lars Francke  wrote:

> Dmitry,
>
> I agree that there are lots of technical things to discuss and I won't
> stop anyone doing that but I'd like to keep this thread about the proposal
> and the project itself knowing that technical stuff is what most of us do
> and like to do and it's also more interesting but let's get the "boring"
> part out of the way :)
>
> I assume (that's actually part of the proposal text) that the first few
> weeks/months of the new project will be spent discussing (and probably
> testing) a lot of these technical issues.
>
> Cheers,
> Lars
>
> On Mon, Feb 4, 2019 at 11:47 AM Dmitriy Pavlov  wrote:
>
>> Hi Lars,
>>
>> About the project: I've got only one thing to say here: Apache Incubator
>> is
>> intended to be a place where a community is build up and everybody (mostly
>> newcomers) learn guides and policies. So straight-to-TLP is also a
>> possible
>> option, but some incubation process isn't bad at all. But still, it is up
>> to board to decide if we go to TLP without incubation.
>>
>> I'm now interested in more technical aspects of contributing to Apache
>> Training: source code for labs, presentations.
>>
>> For example, I can start working on Apache Ignite training, so I will need
>> to contribute 2 types of presentations (source and prepared for students),
>> project code for labs, solved labs, publish it using some website or wiki.
>> Are there any VCS compatible presentation development tools? Can we use,
>> for example, Google Docs for presentations?
>>
>> Sincerely,
>> Dmitriy Pavlov
>>
>> пн, 4 февр. 2019 г. в 12:56, Hans-Peter Zorn :
>>
>> > Hi all,
>> >
>> > I have been creating training material for various big data apache
>> > projects (mostly Apache Spark) for the last five years and we would
>> like to
>> > contribute those. I for myself have not been directly involved with the
>> ASF
>> > directly, however I have been contributing to some open source projects
>> in
>> > the past.  We have been in discussion about this with Lars Francke and
>> > Sören Liebau the last weeks.  Currently most of the material we have is
>> > powerpoint and zeppelin notebooks at the moment but learning on how to
>> make
>> > this more collaboration friendly format-wise would be one thing we would
>> > like to see in this project.
>> >
>> >
>> > Kind regards,
>> > Hans-Peter
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > > Am 25.01.2019 um 13:49 schrieb Lars Francke :
>> > >
>> > > Hello everyone,
>> > >
>> > > this is the result of the discussion I started in December 2018[1].
>> > >
>> > > I would like to start this thread to get feedback on a proposal we've
>> > been
>> > > working on for a project focused on developing training material for
>> > Apache
>> > > & 3rd party projects.
>> > >
>> > > The full proposal can be found here <
>> > > https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/TrainingProposal>
>> > >
>> > > Disclaimer: It is a bit different than most other proposals as it
>> > basically
>> > > starts at zero.
>> > >
>> > > Our main goals for this discussion are:
>> > > * Finding mentors and interested contributors
>> > > * Discuss whether this should be a Incubator project, straight to TLP
>> or
>> > a
>> > > Central Service
>> > > * Sharpen the scope of the project
>> > >
>> > > While I personally have a relatively long history as a contributor,
>> > > committer etc. at Apache I've never been a mentor before so we would
>> love
>> > > for some experienced people to help us out.
>> > >
>> > > We're looking forward to all kinds of feedback.
>> > >
>> > > Cheers,
>> > > Lars
>> > >
>> > > [1] <
>> > >
>> >
>> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/9cb4d7eef73e0d526e0124944c3d37325aa892675351a1eed0a25de3@%3Cgeneral.incubator.apache.org%3E
>> > >>
>> >
>> >
>> > -
>> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
>> > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
>> >
>> >
>>
>

Re: [DISCUSS] Training (incubating) Proposal

[Lars Francke]

Dmitry,

I agree that there are lots of technical things to discuss and I won't stop
anyone doing that but I'd like to keep this thread about the proposal and
the project itself knowing that technical stuff is what most of us do and
like to do and it's also more interesting but let's get the "boring" part
out of the way :)

I assume (that's actually part of the proposal text) that the first few
weeks/months of the new project will be spent discussing (and probably
testing) a lot of these technical issues.

Cheers,
Lars

On Mon, Feb 4, 2019 at 11:47 AM Dmitriy Pavlov  wrote:

> Hi Lars,
>
> About the project: I've got only one thing to say here: Apache Incubator is
> intended to be a place where a community is build up and everybody (mostly
> newcomers) learn guides and policies. So straight-to-TLP is also a possible
> option, but some incubation process isn't bad at all. But still, it is up
> to board to decide if we go to TLP without incubation.
>
> I'm now interested in more technical aspects of contributing to Apache
> Training: source code for labs, presentations.
>
> For example, I can start working on Apache Ignite training, so I will need
> to contribute 2 types of presentations (source and prepared for students),
> project code for labs, solved labs, publish it using some website or wiki.
> Are there any VCS compatible presentation development tools? Can we use,
> for example, Google Docs for presentations?
>
> Sincerely,
> Dmitriy Pavlov
>
> пн, 4 февр. 2019 г. в 12:56, Hans-Peter Zorn :
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I have been creating training material for various big data apache
> > projects (mostly Apache Spark) for the last five years and we would like
> to
> > contribute those. I for myself have not been directly involved with the
> ASF
> > directly, however I have been contributing to some open source projects
> in
> > the past.  We have been in discussion about this with Lars Francke and
> > Sören Liebau the last weeks.  Currently most of the material we have is
> > powerpoint and zeppelin notebooks at the moment but learning on how to
> make
> > this more collaboration friendly format-wise would be one thing we would
> > like to see in this project.
> >
> >
> > Kind regards,
> > Hans-Peter
> >
> >
> >
> > > Am 25.01.2019 um 13:49 schrieb Lars Francke :
> > >
> > > Hello everyone,
> > >
> > > this is the result of the discussion I started in December 2018[1].
> > >
> > > I would like to start this thread to get feedback on a proposal we've
> > been
> > > working on for a project focused on developing training material for
> > Apache
> > > & 3rd party projects.
> > >
> > > The full proposal can be found here <
> > > https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/TrainingProposal>
> > >
> > > Disclaimer: It is a bit different than most other proposals as it
> > basically
> > > starts at zero.
> > >
> > > Our main goals for this discussion are:
> > > * Finding mentors and interested contributors
> > > * Discuss whether this should be a Incubator project, straight to TLP
> or
> > a
> > > Central Service
> > > * Sharpen the scope of the project
> > >
> > > While I personally have a relatively long history as a contributor,
> > > committer etc. at Apache I've never been a mentor before so we would
> love
> > > for some experienced people to help us out.
> > >
> > > We're looking forward to all kinds of feedback.
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > > Lars
> > >
> > > [1] <
> > >
> >
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/9cb4d7eef73e0d526e0124944c3d37325aa892675351a1eed0a25de3@%3Cgeneral.incubator.apache.org%3E
> > >>
> >
> >
> > -
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
> >
> >
>

Re: [DISCUSS] Training (incubating) Proposal

[Lars Francke]

Oh and one more thing that I at least want to mention is the name. I know
that podlings can do a name search after the incubation has started.

We thought about using "Training" as the proper name though. It's very
descriptive and easy to understand/recognize in multiple languages.
https://training.apache.org etc.

Are there any issues with that?


On Mon, Feb 4, 2019 at 10:20 AM Lars Francke  wrote:

> Dmitry, Kenneth,
>
> sorry for the slow replies. I was offline on vacation for a few days. I'll
> add both of you to the Wiki (if you haven't already done so).
>
> I love that we have gathered quite a few interested people to participate
> already but I'd love to hear more (or any really) opinions on the proposal
> itself as well as the route it should go.
>
> I'm now leaning in favor of straight-to-TLP. I know we don't have any
> fixed duration for DISCUSS threads and discussion has died down but I don't
> really want to close it yet so I'll wait at least until the end of the week
> before starting any potential next steps.
>
> > I'm not a professional teacher or trainer, but I have been a part of
> preparing and delivering a number of trainings and talks  (also the usual
> teaching, tutoring, talking in grad school FWIW) and I love it.
>
> I assume (haven't checked) that this is the background of most of us. It
> certainly is mine as well. So that should not be a problem at all!
>
> Cheers,
> Lars
>
> On Wed, Jan 30, 2019 at 9:22 PM Kenneth Knowles  wrote:
>
>> Hi Lars,
>>
>> I would like to be a part of this too, according to your & the others'
>> best
>> judgment. I'm PMC at Beam & incubator.
>
> One of my favorite things about Beam that keeps
>> me working on it is that it is a natural integration point of lots of
>> different Apache projects both as data processing engines (Spark, Flink,
>> Apex, Samza, Tez, Storm, incubating Nemo, ex-incubating Gearpump, ...)
>> used
>> by Beam users and also data stores (Cassandra, HBase, Hadoop, Tika, Hive,
>> ...) they want to read/write from. So our trainings are already basically
>> cross-project Apache-focused material and it would be great
>> cross-pollination. We often have to help users configure their Spark &
>> Flink clusters, etc.
>>
>> Kenn
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 30, 2019 at 2:04 AM Dmitriy Pavlov 
>> wrote:
>>
>> > Hi Lars,
>> >
>> > I'd like to be a part of this. I'm PMC at Apache Ignite. Sometimes I
>> need
>> > to give individual feedback to developers related to both Apache
>> policies
>> > and spirit of developing software in a community way. Why not invest
>> effort
>> > into training and education materials instead?
>> >
>> > I gave several talks in Russia related to The Apache Software Foundation
>> > and
>> > blog about The Apache Way. I also assist newcomers joining Apache
>> Ignite.
>> > So count on my support, and I definitely would like to became committer
>> at
>> > Training.
>> >
>> > Sincerely,
>> > Dmitriy Pavlov
>> >
>> > ср, 30 янв. 2019 г. в 01:25, Lars Francke :
>> >
>> > > Craig,
>> > >
>> > > that's great news. Thank you for volunteering. I've added you to the
>> > Wiki.
>> > >
>> > > Cheers,
>> > > Lars
>> > >
>> > > On Tue, Jan 29, 2019 at 11:01 PM Craig Russell 
>> > > wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > Hi Lars,
>> > > >
>> > > > I'll volunteer to mentor the project if it ends up incubating. And
>> I'd
>> > > > like to join the discussion as a member of the (P)PMC. The idea of
>> an
>> > > open
>> > > > source project to help rationalize training materials is very
>> > appealing.
>> > > >
>> > > > I'm also very interested in the ecosystem of not-for-profit
>> education
>> > and
>> > > > I think this project would be a great fit.
>> > > >
>> > > > Craig
>> > > >
>> > > > > On Jan 28, 2019, at 5:49 AM, Lars Francke > >
>> > > > wrote:
>> > > > >
>> > > > > I've been going back and forth on the topic of TLP vs. Incubator
>> > > podling.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > I don't really have a strong opinion but I'm leaning slightly in
>> > favor
>> > > of
>> > > > > "straight to TLP" and the past discussion (linked in previous
>> mail)

Re: [DISCUSS] Training (incubating) Proposal

[Lars Francke]

Dmitry, Kenneth,

sorry for the slow replies. I was offline on vacation for a few days. I'll
add both of you to the Wiki (if you haven't already done so).

I love that we have gathered quite a few interested people to participate
already but I'd love to hear more (or any really) opinions on the proposal
itself as well as the route it should go.

I'm now leaning in favor of straight-to-TLP. I know we don't have any fixed
duration for DISCUSS threads and discussion has died down but I don't
really want to close it yet so I'll wait at least until the end of the week
before starting any potential next steps.

> I'm not a professional teacher or trainer, but I have been a part of
preparing and delivering a number of trainings and talks  (also the usual
teaching, tutoring, talking in grad school FWIW) and I love it.

I assume (haven't checked) that this is the background of most of us. It
certainly is mine as well. So that should not be a problem at all!

Cheers,
Lars

On Wed, Jan 30, 2019 at 9:22 PM Kenneth Knowles  wrote:

> Hi Lars,
>
> I would like to be a part of this too, according to your & the others' best
> judgment. I'm PMC at Beam & incubator.

One of my favorite things about Beam that keeps
> me working on it is that it is a natural integration point of lots of
> different Apache projects both as data processing engines (Spark, Flink,
> Apex, Samza, Tez, Storm, incubating Nemo, ex-incubating Gearpump, ...) used
> by Beam users and also data stores (Cassandra, HBase, Hadoop, Tika, Hive,
> ...) they want to read/write from. So our trainings are already basically
> cross-project Apache-focused material and it would be great
> cross-pollination. We often have to help users configure their Spark &
> Flink clusters, etc.
>
> Kenn
>
> On Wed, Jan 30, 2019 at 2:04 AM Dmitriy Pavlov  wrote:
>
> > Hi Lars,
> >
> > I'd like to be a part of this. I'm PMC at Apache Ignite. Sometimes I need
> > to give individual feedback to developers related to both Apache policies
> > and spirit of developing software in a community way. Why not invest
> effort
> > into training and education materials instead?
> >
> > I gave several talks in Russia related to The Apache Software Foundation
> > and
> > blog about The Apache Way. I also assist newcomers joining Apache Ignite.
> > So count on my support, and I definitely would like to became committer
> at
> > Training.
> >
> > Sincerely,
> > Dmitriy Pavlov
> >
> > ср, 30 янв. 2019 г. в 01:25, Lars Francke :
> >
> > > Craig,
> > >
> > > that's great news. Thank you for volunteering. I've added you to the
> > Wiki.
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > > Lars
> > >
> > > On Tue, Jan 29, 2019 at 11:01 PM Craig Russell 
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi Lars,
> > > >
> > > > I'll volunteer to mentor the project if it ends up incubating. And
> I'd
> > > > like to join the discussion as a member of the (P)PMC. The idea of an
> > > open
> > > > source project to help rationalize training materials is very
> > appealing.
> > > >
> > > > I'm also very interested in the ecosystem of not-for-profit education
> > and
> > > > I think this project would be a great fit.
> > > >
> > > > Craig
> > > >
> > > > > On Jan 28, 2019, at 5:49 AM, Lars Francke 
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > I've been going back and forth on the topic of TLP vs. Incubator
> > > podling.
> > > > >
> > > > > I don't really have a strong opinion but I'm leaning slightly in
> > favor
> > > of
> > > > > "straight to TLP" and the past discussion (linked in previous mail)
> > did
> > > > > also have more voices in favor of TLP. But of course there are
> > > arguments
> > > > to
> > > > > be made for both sides.
> > > > >
> > > > > I've been wondering if anyone here has opinions on this part of the
> > > > > proposal?
> > > > >
> > > > > In a related thread I asked about how to proceed in terms of
> choosing
> > > > > members for a PMC and one suggestion was to make it depend on the
> > > route:
> > > > >
> > > > > * Incubator: On graduation ask and assess current PMC members and
> see
> > > if
> > > > > everyone has proven their merit and is willing to continue
> > > > > * TLP: Start with a PMC consisting of only ASF members (plus
> > additional
&g

Re: [DISCUSS] Training (incubating) Proposal

[Lars Francke]

Craig,

that's great news. Thank you for volunteering. I've added you to the Wiki.

Cheers,
Lars

On Tue, Jan 29, 2019 at 11:01 PM Craig Russell  wrote:

> Hi Lars,
>
> I'll volunteer to mentor the project if it ends up incubating. And I'd
> like to join the discussion as a member of the (P)PMC. The idea of an open
> source project to help rationalize training materials is very appealing.
>
> I'm also very interested in the ecosystem of not-for-profit education and
> I think this project would be a great fit.
>
> Craig
>
> > On Jan 28, 2019, at 5:49 AM, Lars Francke 
> wrote:
> >
> > I've been going back and forth on the topic of TLP vs. Incubator podling.
> >
> > I don't really have a strong opinion but I'm leaning slightly in favor of
> > "straight to TLP" and the past discussion (linked in previous mail) did
> > also have more voices in favor of TLP. But of course there are arguments
> to
> > be made for both sides.
> >
> > I've been wondering if anyone here has opinions on this part of the
> > proposal?
> >
> > In a related thread I asked about how to proceed in terms of choosing
> > members for a PMC and one suggestion was to make it depend on the route:
> >
> > * Incubator: On graduation ask and assess current PMC members and see if
> > everyone has proven their merit and is willing to continue
> > * TLP: Start with a PMC consisting of only ASF members (plus additional
> > committers) and then accept additional members for the PMC on a "normal"
> > basis
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Lars
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Jan 25, 2019 at 1:49 PM Lars Francke 
> wrote:
> >
> >> Hello everyone,
> >>
> >> this is the result of the discussion I started in December 2018[1].
> >>
> >> I would like to start this thread to get feedback on a proposal we've
> been
> >> working on for a project focused on developing training material for
> Apache
> >> & 3rd party projects.
> >>
> >> The full proposal can be found here <
> >> https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/TrainingProposal>
> >>
> >> Disclaimer: It is a bit different than most other proposals as it
> >> basically starts at zero.
> >>
> >> Our main goals for this discussion are:
> >> * Finding mentors and interested contributors
> >> * Discuss whether this should be a Incubator project, straight to TLP
> or a
> >> Central Service
> >> * Sharpen the scope of the project
> >>
> >> While I personally have a relatively long history as a contributor,
> >> committer etc. at Apache I've never been a mentor before so we would
> love
> >> for some experienced people to help us out.
> >>
> >> We're looking forward to all kinds of feedback.
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >> Lars
> >>
> >> [1] <
> >>
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/9cb4d7eef73e0d526e0124944c3d37325aa892675351a1eed0a25de3@%3Cgeneral.incubator.apache.org%3E
> >>>
> >>
>
> Craig L Russell
> c...@apache.org
>
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
>
>

Re: [DISCUSS] Training (incubating) Proposal

[Lars Francke]

I've been going back and forth on the topic of TLP vs. Incubator podling.

I don't really have a strong opinion but I'm leaning slightly in favor of
"straight to TLP" and the past discussion (linked in previous mail) did
also have more voices in favor of TLP. But of course there are arguments to
be made for both sides.

I've been wondering if anyone here has opinions on this part of the
proposal?

In a related thread I asked about how to proceed in terms of choosing
members for a PMC and one suggestion was to make it depend on the route:

* Incubator: On graduation ask and assess current PMC members and see if
everyone has proven their merit and is willing to continue
* TLP: Start with a PMC consisting of only ASF members (plus additional
committers) and then accept additional members for the PMC on a "normal"
basis

Cheers,
Lars


On Fri, Jan 25, 2019 at 1:49 PM Lars Francke  wrote:

> Hello everyone,
>
> this is the result of the discussion I started in December 2018[1].
>
> I would like to start this thread to get feedback on a proposal we've been
> working on for a project focused on developing training material for Apache
> & 3rd party projects.
>
> The full proposal can be found here <
> https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/TrainingProposal>
>
> Disclaimer: It is a bit different than most other proposals as it
> basically starts at zero.
>
> Our main goals for this discussion are:
> * Finding mentors and interested contributors
> * Discuss whether this should be a Incubator project, straight to TLP or a
> Central Service
> * Sharpen the scope of the project
>
> While I personally have a relatively long history as a contributor,
> committer etc. at Apache I've never been a mentor before so we would love
> for some experienced people to help us out.
>
> We're looking forward to all kinds of feedback.
>
> Cheers,
> Lars
>
> [1] <
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/9cb4d7eef73e0d526e0124944c3d37325aa892675351a1eed0a25de3@%3Cgeneral.incubator.apache.org%3E
> >
>

Re: Meritocracy, initial contributors and (Incubator) Proposals

[Lars Francke]

Thanks for the feedback everyone.

The general outline makes sense to me and it is reassuring that I didn't
miss anything too obvious.

I'll wait to see if a discussion is going to develop on the exact form this
is going to happen in.

Cheers,
Lars

On Mon, Jan 28, 2019 at 11:14 AM Bertrand Delacretaz <
bdelacre...@codeconsult.ch> wrote:

> Hi Lars,
>
> On Sat, Jan 26, 2019 at 5:35 PM Lars Francke 
> wrote:
> > ...Proposals (and this especially) are a way to be granted something
> that you
> > usually have to work for (prove merit)
>
> I agree that being listed as an initial committer on podling proposals
> is a way to get committership without necessarily demonstrating merit
> in the ASF.
>
> And that might lead people to becoming PMC members once their podling
> graduate.
>
> In podlings what I've been mentoring I have often asked for the list
> of PMC members to be reviewed before graduation, to verify that those
> people have earned their role by providing value to the podling. I
> think that's a good filter to avoid the problem the you mention.
>
> For straight-to-TLP projects, like your Training proposal, I think the
> initial PMC should consist only of Apache Members. We haven't had many
> of those so far so I don't think we have a rule for that but that
> seems reasonable, as there's no guidance outside of the PMC for a
> straight-toTLP project.
>
> Once the project is created the PMC can elect committers as quickly as
> it wants, and decide who can also join the PMC.
>
> I think saying "The initial PMC of a straight-to-TLP project consists
> of Apache Members only" gives you a simple rule to accept candidates,
> is reassuring for the Board when it accepts creating the project and
> doesn't block quick project growth in any way. I recommend using that
> rule for your Training project if it aims to go straight to TLP.
>
> Interested people can still be listed somewhere but the best way for
> them to demonstrate interest is to join the project's lists once
> created.
>
> -Bertrand
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
>
>

Re: [DISCUSS] Training (incubating) Proposal

[Lars Francke]

Sharan,

great! I've added you to the Wiki.

Cheers,
Lars

On Sun, Jan 27, 2019 at 10:51 PM Sharan Foga  wrote:

> Hi Lars
>
> I'd like to be a part of this, not only from a ComDev perspective, as this
> project and its resources would be a great asset for the community
> development effort (internally and externally), but also because I have an
> real interest in developing documentation and training material.
>
> So I'd be happy to be involved.
>
> Thanks
> Sharan
>
> On 2019/01/25 12:49:01, Lars Francke  wrote:
> > Hello everyone,
> >
> > this is the result of the discussion I started in December 2018[1].
> >
> > I would like to start this thread to get feedback on a proposal we've
> been
> > working on for a project focused on developing training material for
> Apache
> > & 3rd party projects.
> >
> > The full proposal can be found here <
> > https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/TrainingProposal>
> >
> > Disclaimer: It is a bit different than most other proposals as it
> basically
> > starts at zero.
> >
> > Our main goals for this discussion are:
> > * Finding mentors and interested contributors
> > * Discuss whether this should be a Incubator project, straight to TLP or
> a
> > Central Service
> > * Sharpen the scope of the project
> >
> > While I personally have a relatively long history as a contributor,
> > committer etc. at Apache I've never been a mentor before so we would love
> > for some experienced people to help us out.
> >
> > We're looking forward to all kinds of feedback.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Lars
> >
> > [1] <
> >
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/9cb4d7eef73e0d526e0124944c3d37325aa892675351a1eed0a25de3@%3Cgeneral.incubator.apache.org%3E
> > >
> >
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
>
>

Re: [DISCUSS] Training (incubating) Proposal

[Lars Francke]

>
> thank you! I'm not at home right now and can't edit the Wiki now but I'll
> do so later (or you'll do it yourself)?
>

I have added you to the Wiki now.


> Your mail actually sparked a thought. I'm not sure about the "limits" to
> an initial contributor/committer list and how to go about selecting those.
> I'm in no position to judge anyone on this list but do I even need to just
> because I've written the proposal? I guess usually it's easier when you
> start with an existing codebase because you can just pick past contributors
> and new ones have to prove themselves in the normal ways. Here it's a bit
> different.
>
> I'll start a separate thread about this.
>
> Cheers,
> Lars
>
> On Sat, Jan 26, 2019 at 4:17 PM Furkan KAMACI 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> I'm a member of The Apache Software Foundation, PMC member of Apache
>> Incubator, Committer and PMC member of Apache Gora, Committer and PMC
>> member of Apache Nutch, Committer and PMC member of Apache Clerezza,
>> Committer of Apache ManifoldCF, Committer of Apache Stanbol and mail list
>> moderator of Apache Solr. I'm also a member of W3C (World Wide Web
>> Consortium).
>>
>> I have a work experience +10 years including companies as like
>> Alcatel-Lucent/Nokia and has an academical background. Currently, I have a
>> company named as LAGOM which works on Big Data and Machine Learning and
>> contributes to open source projects.
>>
>> I am a blogger and public speaker about Open Source Development. I would
>> like to share my experiences and be on the (P)PMC/initial committer list
>> too.
>>
>> Kind Regards,
>> Furkan KAMACI
>>
>> On Sat, Jan 26, 2019 at 6:04 PM Lars Francke 
>> wrote:
>>
>> > Justin,
>> >
>> > that's great to hear. And yes please. I'll add you to the Wiki.
>> >
>> > Cheers,
>> > Lars
>> >
>> > On Sat, Jan 26, 2019 at 12:35 AM Justin Mclean <
>> jus...@classsoftware.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> > > Hi,
>> > >
>> > > I’ll comment on the other parts of the proposal once I’ve thought
>> about
>> > it
>> > > a bit, but I’m also have a decent amount of training and course
>> creation
>> > > experience and would like to be on the (P)PMC / initial committer
>> list if
>> > > you'll have me. Assuming you go down the IPMC I’d also happy to be a
>> > > mentor. I also have some material I can donate around the Apache Way
>> and
>> > > the Incubator.
>> > >
>> > > JFYI I’m currently teaching at a university (on computational design)
>> and
>> > > teaching/assessing at an online collage 2 1/2 days a week on
>> > programming. I
>> > > finished a qualification in teaching last year and starting another
>> one
>> > in
>> > > a month time.
>> > >
>> > > Thanks,
>> > > Justin
>> > > -
>> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
>> > > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>>
>

Meritocracy, initial contributors and (Incubator) Proposals

[Lars Francke]

Hello everyone,

I should have thought of this before, but I didn't. I also did some
research in the mailing list archives, but the search terms are so common,
I didn't come up with anything.

Meritocracy is valued strongly at the ASF. Usually it is granted post-fact
when someone has proven her- or himself. There are lots of problems with
that too, but this is not about that.

This is related to the Training proposal on this list that I started
yesterday.

Proposals (and this especially) are a way to be granted something that you
usually have to work for (prove merit). I'm wondering what has been done in
the past in these situations? Is everyone just added to the list of
contributors/PMC members? There is no real limit to the number of people
that can be part of the initial team as far as I know.

Now, I know some of the people who have contacted me, and I am honored that
they chose to work with me/us on this project. Most people on here I have
never met though and even though I may have read some names on the mailing
list I have no way of assessing whether they are a good fit for a project.
I would usually just trust implicitly (by being on this list, contributor
to other projects etc.) and would say "the more the merrier". In this case
I happen to be the one who's written the proposal but it could have been
anyone really. Should it really be me judging who's a good fit? When do
we/I say "stop, we have enough"?

On the other hand, it would be a pity to have a PMC/initial contributors
list with inactive people and no way to "prune" it. This can be problematic
depending on bylaws (which I've been bitten by already in another project)
and for other reasons.

I'm looking for any advice and past experiences.

Cheers,
Lars

Re: [DISCUSS] Training (incubating) Proposal

[Lars Francke]

Furkan,

thank you! I'm not at home right now and can't edit the Wiki now but I'll
do so later (or you'll do it yourself)?

Your mail actually sparked a thought. I'm not sure about the "limits" to an
initial contributor/committer list and how to go about selecting those. I'm
in no position to judge anyone on this list but do I even need to just
because I've written the proposal? I guess usually it's easier when you
start with an existing codebase because you can just pick past contributors
and new ones have to prove themselves in the normal ways. Here it's a bit
different.

I'll start a separate thread about this.

Cheers,
Lars

On Sat, Jan 26, 2019 at 4:17 PM Furkan KAMACI 
wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> I'm a member of The Apache Software Foundation, PMC member of Apache
> Incubator, Committer and PMC member of Apache Gora, Committer and PMC
> member of Apache Nutch, Committer and PMC member of Apache Clerezza,
> Committer of Apache ManifoldCF, Committer of Apache Stanbol and mail list
> moderator of Apache Solr. I'm also a member of W3C (World Wide Web
> Consortium).
>
> I have a work experience +10 years including companies as like
> Alcatel-Lucent/Nokia and has an academical background. Currently, I have a
> company named as LAGOM which works on Big Data and Machine Learning and
> contributes to open source projects.
>
> I am a blogger and public speaker about Open Source Development. I would
> like to share my experiences and be on the (P)PMC/initial committer list
> too.
>
> Kind Regards,
> Furkan KAMACI
>
> On Sat, Jan 26, 2019 at 6:04 PM Lars Francke 
> wrote:
>
> > Justin,
> >
> > that's great to hear. And yes please. I'll add you to the Wiki.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Lars
> >
> > On Sat, Jan 26, 2019 at 12:35 AM Justin Mclean  >
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I’ll comment on the other parts of the proposal once I’ve thought about
> > it
> > > a bit, but I’m also have a decent amount of training and course
> creation
> > > experience and would like to be on the (P)PMC / initial committer list
> if
> > > you'll have me. Assuming you go down the IPMC I’d also happy to be a
> > > mentor. I also have some material I can donate around the Apache Way
> and
> > > the Incubator.
> > >
> > > JFYI I’m currently teaching at a university (on computational design)
> and
> > > teaching/assessing at an online collage 2 1/2 days a week on
> > programming. I
> > > finished a qualification in teaching last year and starting another one
> > in
> > > a month time.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Justin
> > > -
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
> > >
> > >
> >
>

Re: [DISCUSS] Training (incubating) Proposal

[Lars Francke]

Justin,

that's great to hear. And yes please. I'll add you to the Wiki.

Cheers,
Lars

On Sat, Jan 26, 2019 at 12:35 AM Justin Mclean 
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I’ll comment on the other parts of the proposal once I’ve thought about it
> a bit, but I’m also have a decent amount of training and course creation
> experience and would like to be on the (P)PMC / initial committer list if
> you'll have me. Assuming you go down the IPMC I’d also happy to be a
> mentor. I also have some material I can donate around the Apache Way and
> the Incubator.
>
> JFYI I’m currently teaching at a university (on computational design) and
> teaching/assessing at an online collage 2 1/2 days a week on programming. I
> finished a qualification in teaching last year and starting another one in
> a month time.
>
> Thanks,
> Justin
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
>
>

[DISCUSS] Training (incubating) Proposal

[Lars Francke]

Hello everyone,

this is the result of the discussion I started in December 2018[1].

I would like to start this thread to get feedback on a proposal we've been
working on for a project focused on developing training material for Apache
& 3rd party projects.

The full proposal can be found here <
https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/TrainingProposal>

Disclaimer: It is a bit different than most other proposals as it basically
starts at zero.

Our main goals for this discussion are:
* Finding mentors and interested contributors
* Discuss whether this should be a Incubator project, straight to TLP or a
Central Service
* Sharpen the scope of the project

While I personally have a relatively long history as a contributor,
committer etc. at Apache I've never been a mentor before so we would love
for some experienced people to help us out.

We're looking forward to all kinds of feedback.

Cheers,
Lars

[1] <
https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/9cb4d7eef73e0d526e0124944c3d37325aa892675351a1eed0a25de3@%3Cgeneral.incubator.apache.org%3E
>

Re: Edit Permissions for Incubator Wiki

[Lars Francke]

Thank you very much for the prompt response. It works.

I'll add the proposal this week.

On Mon, Jan 14, 2019 at 12:04 PM Bertrand Delacretaz <
bdelacre...@codeconsult.ch> wrote:

> On Mon, Jan 14, 2019 at 9:54 AM Lars Francke 
> wrote:
> > ...The user name is "LarsFrancke"..
>
> you should now have access to https://wiki.apache.org/incubator
>
> -Bertrand
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
>
>

Edit Permissions for Incubator Wiki

[Lars Francke]

Hi,

I'd like to add the proposal for the Apache Training project.

Could you please grant me edit permissions for the Incubator Wiki?

The user name is "LarsFrancke".

Thank you,
Lars

Re: Establishing an ASF project for training

[Lars Francke]

Gris,

sorry for the late reply. I'm only now catching up on emails after the
holidays. Thanks for your support!

The next steps are for me (in the next two weeks) to write an official
proposal. I'll then start a [DISCUSS] Thread and will gather interested
parties. We can take it from there. I believe that for the moment there's
nothing to do.

Regarding the technical discussion: I've intentionally avoided that for now
as I wanted to focus on the topic itself before hopefully diving into
details later. No matter which technology we chose someone will be unhappy
with it but I believe this to be no different than any other "technical"
project.

Cheers,
Lars

>
> > I really like the idea!
> > We, from time to time, also do trainings and workshops with Apache
> projects and it would really help to have a better basis.
> > And I agree for you that you don’t get payed for *having* slides but for
> the show as well as for the insights you get from a good instructor or a
> person with background knowledge, so I also see no big concerns in sharing.
> >
> > One thing that came to my mind was to use some kind of "code based"
> generation for the slides, notebooks, brochures like Latex, Markdown,
> Asciidoc or else...
>
> I would strongly advise against using code base generators as the only way
> to consume these materials. The reason why is that this is a entry barrier
> for folks wanting to contribute to community and project management and who
> are not technical. This will also put a huge adoption barrier since we'd
> need to assume people using this materials are versed in this technology.
> That been said. We could use the code based generator for folks wanting to
> do more with what's produced but also publishing official brochures and
> content that people can just "grab and go".
>
> This is in alignment with having a more active attitude towards
> recognizing non-code contributions.
>
> > I would not like to force users to use proprietary tools (PPT) to use
> the material.
> > And furthermore, this would allow us to have some kind of style files
> which could be personalized for corps and which they could keep for each
> release.
> > Another aspect is that it makes the whole versioning way easier as it is
> code and one can see all changes and stuff which is impossible for "binary"
> formats.
> > I also think we have enough people here that would be able to easily do
> an automated resources documentation, so that we could always offer
> "compiled" material in pdf in default style or the possibility to do a
> custom build with custom styles.
> >
> > And I think that the incubator would be a good place to start to see if
> here, as in all ASF projects, a community can be established and continuous
> effort is spend on the project. This would reduce the risk of a "zombie"
> project which is probably only really powered by one organization and lives
> and dies on their will.
> >
> > Julian
> >
> > Am 17.12.18, 14:37 schrieb "Rich Bowen" :
> >
> > It's worth mentioning that there's a conversation going right now
> over on
> > the members@ list about creating a "central services" kind of
> entity. That
> > discussion is primarily focused on design/graphic kind of stuff, but
> > training/documentation/presentations are similar in concept, if not
> in
> > content, and I'm definitely in favor of such an entity existing.
> >
> > Your anticipated question "Isn't the ASF all about code, now you
> want to do
> > PPT!" is very insightful. The ASF exists to provide services to
> projects,
> > and this is an unfilled need that many/most of our projects have.
> There is
> > precedent - we have an infrastructure organization, a conferences
> entity, a
> > marketing group, legal, brand, and so on, that provide non-code
> services to
> > projects. Recognizing contributors for non-code contributions is
> *critical*
> > for the survival of our projects, and of the Foundation as a whole,
> and we
> > tend to be very poor at it.
> >
> > So, suffice it to say, a huge +1 to this concept, although I'm not
> sure
> > where it should live - whether under ComDev (as you suggest) or as a
> > top-level entity. I think the latter makes a little more sense.
> While this
> > is indeed a function of community development/growth/education, it's
> also
> > sufficiently different that it may need to be independent.
> >
> > What are next steps? I don't *think* this is something that should go
> > through the In

Re: Establishing an ASF project for training

[Lars Francke]

Great, thanks for the feedback.

I'll work on that in the next few days!

Happy holidays everyone,
Lars

On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 10:37 AM Bertrand Delacretaz <
bdelacre...@codeconsult.ch> wrote:

> On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 9:00 AM Justin Mclean 
> wrote:
> > ...Even with direct to TLP it might be good to put a proposal together
> like an incubating project
>
> +1, doing the proposal here is also better for visibility, and many
> steps are common between incubation and straight to TLP.
>
> -Bertrand
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
>
>

Re: Establishing an ASF project for training

[Lars Francke]

I've waited two days to see if there is more feedback.
Seems as if the discussion has died down. I've only heard positive feedback
so far.

Thanks Kevin for the suggestion. I'm a bit unsure on how to proceed. The
consensus seemed to lean more towards the direct-to-TLP route. Would I have
to propose this on members@ as Sally just did in the thread that Rich
referred to earlier?

On Tue, Dec 18, 2018 at 5:47 PM Kevin A. McGrail 
wrote:

> On 12/18/2018 11:43 AM, Lars Francke wrote:
> > You, Rich and KAM talk about a TLP/Central Service so let's start
> > discussing that. I'm fairly well informed about the Incubator but I have
> no
> > ideas about the direct-to-TLP/Central Services path. Any pointers/mentors
> > would be great. If no one objects I'd like to start the process of
> DISCUSS
> > and potentially VOTE in the right place then. Would that be members@ or
> > board@ or something else entirely? All documentation I can find is about
> > new Incubator projects.
>
> Lars, I would recommend you create a proposal to become a podling in the
> incubator with you as the champion.  See
> https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/ and perhaps an example proposal like
> https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/IoTDBProposal
>
> Regards,
> KAM
>
> --
> Kevin A. McGrail
> VP Fundraising, Apache Software Foundation
> Chair Emeritus Apache SpamAssassin Project
> https://www.linkedin.com/in/kmcgrail - 703.798.0171
>
>

Re: Establishing an ASF project for training

[Lars Francke]

On Tue, Dec 18, 2018 at 10:09 AM Bertrand Delacretaz <
bdelacre...@codeconsult.ch> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> On Mon, Dec 17, 2018 at 2:23 PM Lars Francke 
> wrote:
>  ...we do not believe that a slide-deck is worth
>  that much on its own...
>
> I agree but I think the course outline has a lot of value: if I know
> the topic and have a good course plan, I can walk in and deliver a
> valuable course without much preparation.
>

True.


> But you are right that the instructor is the real added value and
> sharing course plans, exercises etc. makes a lot of sense and should
> help make *all* instructors more valuable by sharing that "course
> infrastructure".
>
> Neutral formats work well for that - creating nice slides out of of
> them might also be added value that people can provide, outside of the
> project. We all know how hard it is to agree on the look of shiny
> things in Open Source projects ;-)
>
> I agree with Rich that this can overlap with other Central Services
> that have been discussed recently, so the starting point might just be
> to create such a Central Services PMC and take it from there.
>
> If there are enough ASF Members on board I also agree with Rich that
> straight-to-TLP makes sense. I might not be able to provide much
> concrete help but I am *very* supportive of the idea.
>

Great, thank you for the input and the support.

You, Rich and KAM talk about a TLP/Central Service so let's start
discussing that. I'm fairly well informed about the Incubator but I have no
ideas about the direct-to-TLP/Central Services path. Any pointers/mentors
would be great. If no one objects I'd like to start the process of DISCUSS
and potentially VOTE in the right place then. Would that be members@ or
board@ or something else entirely? All documentation I can find is about
new Incubator projects.


> -Bertrand
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
>
>

Re: Establishing an ASF project for training

[Lars Francke]

Kevin,

thanks for the heads up and for the support. I'd love for those companies
to contribute but I think there's no need to wait for them, no?

I understand that a meeting can be useful but if you have one it'd be great
if it could be an online meetup/call so I (from Germany) can also
participate. That said: I believe we can probably hash out most details on
the list as well?

Cheers,
Lars


On Mon, Dec 17, 2018 at 7:41 PM Kevin A. McGrail 
wrote:

> Hi Lars,
>
> Just a note that this might tie in nicely to the proposal I sent to a
> number of online companies: Coursera, Pluralsight, Udemy, & Udacity re:
> setting up a PMC for Training.  I got only one response which so far
> hasn't materialized with much.  However, I think the idea has a lot of
> merit and thought I would share what I wrote back in October.
>
> Regards,
> KAM
>
> Invitation to a Discussion Panel re: the Apache Way and a PMC Proposal
> for Online Training
>
> Kevin A. McGrail 
> Tue, Oct 16, 12:46 PM
>
> Hello All,
>
> Over the past few years, the ASF has been approached a number of times
> regarding online training/certification and working with several players
> in the industry.  To date, we haven't had much luck finding a way that
> works but just recently, we had another firm reach out to us.
>
> With this additional firm and combining it with recent ASF discussions
> about "central service" projects at the ASF to embrace things that are
> non-code related like graphics and documentation, we might have a way
> forward.
>
> In broad strokes, the idea of creating training material presents itself
> as an interesting idea for a project in the Apache Incubator.  The
> Incubator is where we grow and cultivate interesting ideas towards being
> top level projects.
>
> The plan at this stage is to get interested parties to discuss the
> idea.  What is needed is for a team of people to create a proposal for a
> project management committee to produce this training material just like
> how we produce OSS software in a vendor neutral, collaborative manner
> using the Apache Way.
>
> It's important to note that the ASF wouldn't drive this ship.  We'd help
> steer it with tugboats but we have a lot of experience with successful
> projects involving lots of different vendors that create value through
> open source.
>
> If the companies you represent might be able to help in doing that, I'd
> like to see if it's feasible and guide you.  The first step is to setup
> a meeting with interested parties to discuss things further.  Please let
> me know if you would be interested and if you recommend anyone else is
> invited for the meeting.
>
> Thanks for your time.
>
> Regards,
>
> KAM
> On 12/17/2018 8:22 AM, Lars Francke wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I'd like to start a discussion around establishing a project (or Central
> > Service) at the ASF to host and develop training and related materials
> for
> > ASF (and possibly others, where it makes sense) projects.
> >
> > I'm a committer and contributor to a few projects and make money doing
> > consulting work. Naturally people do contact us for training, and we have
> > developed our own slideware etc. but we find it incredibly hard work to
> > keep those up-to-date.
> >
> > We also work with lots of other companies and they all face the same
> > challenges. At the same time, we do not believe that a slide-deck is
> worth
> > that much on its own (others disagree, as we used to). We believe the
> > instructor is the real selling-point and especially when that person is
> > deeply embedded in the projects itself as a committer or PMC.
> >
> > So, we as a company[0] would like to donate our slide decks and other
> > resources we have and establish an ASF wide training project in the hopes
> > that we as a community can collaborate on those resources. We are
> currently
> > talking to partners to assess whether they are interested in joining us
> in
> > open sourcing their material.
> >
> > I'm not sure if this is a "Central Services" kind of thing or if it
> should
> > be an Incubator project to begin with. I'm posting this here because I
> > think there are good arguments for it being a project (e.g. it appears
> as a
> > “project” in all lists that others can contribute to, it follows a
> familiar
> > structure etc.). It might be a bit different than other projects though
> > (e.g. maybe there are no real releases?).
> >
> > This is also not limited to just slides obviously but also accompanying
> > code and potentially other media forms.
> >
> > One concern I have is that the material s

Re: Establishing an ASF project for training

[Lars Francke]

Julian,

One thing that came to my mind was to use some kind of "code based"
> generation for the slides, notebooks, brochures like Latex, Markdown,
> Asciidoc or else...
> I would not like to force users to use proprietary tools (PPT) to use the
> material.
> And furthermore, this would allow us to have some kind of style files
> which could be personalized for corps and which they could keep for each
> release.
> Another aspect is that it makes the whole versioning way easier as it is
> code and one can see all changes and stuff which is impossible for "binary"
> formats.
> I also think we have enough people here that would be able to easily do an
> automated resources documentation, so that we could always offer "compiled"
> material in pdf in default style or the possibility to do a custom build
> with custom styles.
>

That would be nice. And I've tried a whole bunch of systems and none of
them worked really well. Either you can't position elements nicely/easily
or you can't have a consistent CI etc. I think this is definitely a
discussion to be had when/if this "project" is established.


> And I think that the incubator would be a good place to start to see if
> here, as in all ASF projects, a community can be established and continuous
> effort is spend on the project. This would reduce the risk of a "zombie"
> project which is probably only really powered by one organization and lives
> and dies on their will.
>
> Julian
>
> Am 17.12.18, 14:37 schrieb "Rich Bowen" :
>
> It's worth mentioning that there's a conversation going right now over
> on
> the members@ list about creating a "central services" kind of entity.
> That
> discussion is primarily focused on design/graphic kind of stuff, but
> training/documentation/presentations are similar in concept, if not in
> content, and I'm definitely in favor of such an entity existing.
>
> Your anticipated question "Isn't the ASF all about code, now you want
> to do
> PPT!" is very insightful. The ASF exists to provide services to
> projects,
> and this is an unfilled need that many/most of our projects have.
> There is
> precedent - we have an infrastructure organization, a conferences
> entity, a
> marketing group, legal, brand, and so on, that provide non-code
> services to
> projects. Recognizing contributors for non-code contributions is
> *critical*
> for the survival of our projects, and of the Foundation as a whole,
> and we
> tend to be very poor at it.
>
> So, suffice it to say, a huge +1 to this concept, although I'm not sure
> where it should live - whether under ComDev (as you suggest) or as a
> top-level entity. I think the latter makes a little more sense. While
> this
> is indeed a function of community development/growth/education, it's
> also
> sufficiently different that it may need to be independent.
>
> What are next steps? I don't *think* this is something that should go
> through the Incubator. It's not a Thing Like That. Perhaps a proposal
> to
>     the Board to create a top-level thing? I'll put a pointer to this
> thread
> into that other thread (referenced above), and apologies to those of
> you
> who are not ASF Members and cannot see that thread.
>
>
> On Mon, Dec 17, 2018 at 8:23 AM Lars Francke 
> wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > I'd like to start a discussion around establishing a project (or
> Central
> > Service) at the ASF to host and develop training and related
> materials for
> > ASF (and possibly others, where it makes sense) projects.
> >
> > I'm a committer and contributor to a few projects and make money
> doing
> > consulting work. Naturally people do contact us for training, and we
> have
> > developed our own slideware etc. but we find it incredibly hard work
> to
> > keep those up-to-date.
> >
> > We also work with lots of other companies and they all face the same
> > challenges. At the same time, we do not believe that a slide-deck is
> worth
> > that much on its own (others disagree, as we used to). We believe the
> > instructor is the real selling-point and especially when that person
> is
> > deeply embedded in the projects itself as a committer or PMC.
> >
> > So, we as a company[0] would like to donate our slide decks and other
> > resources we have and establish an ASF wide training project in the
> hopes
> > that we as a community can collaborate on those resources. We are
> currently
> > talk

Re: Establishing an ASF project for training

[Lars Francke]

Thanks for your quick response, your comments and your support.

On Mon, Dec 17, 2018 at 2:37 PM Rich Bowen  wrote:

> It's worth mentioning that there's a conversation going right now over on
> the members@ list about creating a "central services" kind of entity. That
> discussion is primarily focused on design/graphic kind of stuff, but
> training/documentation/presentations are similar in concept, if not in
> content, and I'm definitely in favor of such an entity existing.
>

I managed to miss that thread but I'll go over it later today. Thanks for
pointing that out.


> Your anticipated question "Isn't the ASF all about code, now you want to do
> PPT!" is very insightful. The ASF exists to provide services to projects,
> and this is an unfilled need that many/most of our projects have. There is
> precedent - we have an infrastructure organization, a conferences entity, a
> marketing group, legal, brand, and so on, that provide non-code services to
> projects. Recognizing contributors for non-code contributions is *critical*
> for the survival of our projects, and of the Foundation as a whole, and we
> tend to be very poor at it.
>
> So, suffice it to say, a huge +1 to this concept, although I'm not sure
> where it should live - whether under ComDev (as you suggest) or as a
> top-level entity. I think the latter makes a little more sense. While this
> is indeed a function of community development/growth/education, it's also
> sufficiently different that it may need to be independent.
>

I agree. It feels more like its own project but if others feel strongly I
don't have a super strong preference either.


> What are next steps? I don't *think* this is something that should go
> through the Incubator. It's not a Thing Like That. Perhaps a proposal to
> the Board to create a top-level thing? I'll put a pointer to this thread
> into that other thread (referenced above), and apologies to those of you
> who are not ASF Members and cannot see that thread.
>

I have to admit that I don't know either. But I thought that this mailing
list would at least be a good place to discuss this as lots of projects
start here and people have experience with it. And I assume that lots of
members and some board people are reading here as well. I'm not opposed to
start it as a top-level project. I'll defer to people with a longer ASF
history. I'm not sure about the precedent but I know that it sometimes
happens.


> On Mon, Dec 17, 2018 at 8:23 AM Lars Francke 
> wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > I'd like to start a discussion around establishing a project (or Central
> > Service) at the ASF to host and develop training and related materials
> for
> > ASF (and possibly others, where it makes sense) projects.
> >
> > I'm a committer and contributor to a few projects and make money doing
> > consulting work. Naturally people do contact us for training, and we have
> > developed our own slideware etc. but we find it incredibly hard work to
> > keep those up-to-date.
> >
> > We also work with lots of other companies and they all face the same
> > challenges. At the same time, we do not believe that a slide-deck is
> worth
> > that much on its own (others disagree, as we used to). We believe the
> > instructor is the real selling-point and especially when that person is
> > deeply embedded in the projects itself as a committer or PMC.
> >
> > So, we as a company[0] would like to donate our slide decks and other
> > resources we have and establish an ASF wide training project in the hopes
> > that we as a community can collaborate on those resources. We are
> currently
> > talking to partners to assess whether they are interested in joining us
> in
> > open sourcing their material.
> >
> > I'm not sure if this is a "Central Services" kind of thing or if it
> should
> > be an Incubator project to begin with. I'm posting this here because I
> > think there are good arguments for it being a project (e.g. it appears
> as a
> > “project” in all lists that others can contribute to, it follows a
> familiar
> > structure etc.). It might be a bit different than other projects though
> > (e.g. maybe there are no real releases?).
> >
> > This is also not limited to just slides obviously but also accompanying
> > code and potentially other media forms.
> >
> > One concern I have is that the material should be as objective as
> possible,
> > but our clients especially value our (often subjective) input on the
> > matureness of tools (third-party as well as ASF), processes and
> > communities. So, we usually include that in our slides. I guess anyone
> > using this material 

Establishing an ASF project for training

[Lars Francke]

Hi,

I'd like to start a discussion around establishing a project (or Central
Service) at the ASF to host and develop training and related materials for
ASF (and possibly others, where it makes sense) projects.

I'm a committer and contributor to a few projects and make money doing
consulting work. Naturally people do contact us for training, and we have
developed our own slideware etc. but we find it incredibly hard work to
keep those up-to-date.

We also work with lots of other companies and they all face the same
challenges. At the same time, we do not believe that a slide-deck is worth
that much on its own (others disagree, as we used to). We believe the
instructor is the real selling-point and especially when that person is
deeply embedded in the projects itself as a committer or PMC.

So, we as a company[0] would like to donate our slide decks and other
resources we have and establish an ASF wide training project in the hopes
that we as a community can collaborate on those resources. We are currently
talking to partners to assess whether they are interested in joining us in
open sourcing their material.

I'm not sure if this is a "Central Services" kind of thing or if it should
be an Incubator project to begin with. I'm posting this here because I
think there are good arguments for it being a project (e.g. it appears as a
“project” in all lists that others can contribute to, it follows a familiar
structure etc.). It might be a bit different than other projects though
(e.g. maybe there are no real releases?).

This is also not limited to just slides obviously but also accompanying
code and potentially other media forms.

One concern I have is that the material should be as objective as possible,
but our clients especially value our (often subjective) input on the
matureness of tools (third-party as well as ASF), processes and
communities. So, we usually include that in our slides. I guess anyone
using this material would need to customize it.

This is how I see it but I'm happy to change based on feedback.
In scope:
* Develop shared material that can be used for trainings
* Develop “labs” or “hands-on” exercises
* Develop or document an infrastructure that can be used for those labs
* Potentially develop tools to manage the material (e.g. ideally a slide
repository that contains “modules” that can be easily reused and combined)

Out of scope (for now at least)
* Something like what the CNCF has with their “Kubernetes Training
Program”[1] with certified training partners
* Project documentation

I wasn’t sure whether to start this discussion in members@ and/or here or
somewhere else entirely. But as we believe it should be a “project” I think
this is the best place for it. I’m happy to cross-post if you think it
worthwhile.

I'm looking forward to any and all feedback you might have on this. I would
be happy to draw up a formal Incubator Proposal once we agree on a result
and shape.

Anticipated FAQs:

Q: Shouldn’t each project take care of its own training?
A: Yes and no. Ideally a project should be well documented but developing
material for professional “training” is quite different from writing
documentation in my experience. I think it's better to have a single
central project doing this than having this as part of every project
itself. One reason being that it makes sense to have cross-project
trainings (e.g. no one is interested in an “Apache Hadoop” training. They
all want to learn about the ecosystem).

Q: Isn't the ASF all about code, now you want to do PPT!
A: We’ve had committers for documentation for a long time and I’d actually
like to see much more of that in the future. I think it’s not about the
code but about merit. We have a lot of Apache Way presentations now (which
could be part of this project) that go into depth on this one.

Q: We have the Community project[2], should this not be part of that
project?
A: I honestly don’t know. There is definitely some overlap or alignment but
from all I’ve seen and read I think these could very well be two distinct
projects but “we” could follow a very similar structure and probably reuse
some content and tools.

Q: I don't like PPT/keynote/Apache OpenOffice/HTML slides/... everyone
should do PechaKucha at all times.
A: We are not set on any format for the content, finding a suitable format
will be part of this project’s mission. To me this is a technical
discussion like it happens a hundred times a day on the Apache Jira and
Mailing Lists. There will be disagreement and some people will be
disappointed by some of the choices made but that’s no different than any
other project.

Q: How can I integrate slides from this project to match my corporate
design? I'm not allowed to not use CD.
A: Another technical question (plus probably one that involves legal@) to
which I do not yet have an answer.

Thank you Bernd Fondermann, Sönke Liebau and Tim Robertson for the review
of this mail.

Cheers,
Lars

[0] 
[1] 

Re: [VOTE] Accept the Iceberg project for incubation

[Lars Francke]

+1 (binding)

On Wed, Nov 14, 2018 at 7:48 AM Uwe L. Korn  wrote:

> +1 (non-binding)
>
> Great to see this here!
>
> > Am 14.11.2018 um 04:07 schrieb James Taylor :
> >
> > +1 (binding)
> >
> >> On Tue, Nov 13, 2018 at 4:15 PM Willem Jiang 
> wrote:
> >>
> >> +1 (binding)
> >>
> >> Willem Jiang
> >>
> >> Twitter: willemjiang
> >> Weibo: 姜宁willem
> >>
> >>> On Wed, Nov 14, 2018 at 1:07 AM Ryan Blue  wrote:
> >>>
> >>> The discuss thread seems to have reached consensus, so I propose
> >> accepting
> >>> the Iceberg project for incubation.
> >>>
> >>> The proposal is copied below and in the wiki:
> >>> https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/IcebergProposal
> >>>
> >>> Please vote on whether to accept Iceberg in the next 72 hours:
> >>>
> >>> [ ] +1, accept Iceberg for incubation
> >>> [ ] -1, reject the Iceberg proposal because . . .
> >>>
> >>> Thank you for reviewing the proposal and voting,
> >>>
> >>> rb
> >>> --
> >>> Iceberg Proposal Abstract
> >>>
> >>> Iceberg is a table format for large, slow-moving tabular data.
> >>>
> >>> It is designed to improve on the de-facto standard table layout built
> >> into
> >>> Apache Hive, Presto, and Apache Spark.
> >>> Proposal
> >>>
> >>> The purpose of Iceberg is to provide SQL-like tables that are backed by
> >>> large sets of data files. Iceberg is similar to the Hive table layout,
> >> the
> >>> de-facto standard structure used to track files in a table, but
> provides
> >>> additional guarantees and performance optimizations:
> >>>
> >>>   - Atomicity - Each change to the table is will be complete or will
> >> fail.
> >>>   “Do or do not. There is no try.”
> >>>   - Snapshot isolation - Reads use one and only one snapshot of a table
> >> at
> >>>   some time without holding a lock.
> >>>   - Safe schema evolution - A table’s schema can change in well-defined
> >>>   ways, without breaking older data files.
> >>>   - Column projection - An engine may request a subset of the available
> >>>   columns, including nested fields.
> >>>   - Predicate pushdown - An engine can push filters into read planning
> >> to
> >>>   improve performance using partition data and file-level statistics.
> >>>
> >>> Iceberg does NOT define a new file format. All data is stored in Apache
> >>> Avro, Apache ORC, or Apache Parquet files.
> >>>
> >>> Additionally, Iceberg is designed to work well when data files are
> stored
> >>> in cloud blob stores, even when those systems provide weaker guarantees
> >>> than a file system, including:
> >>>
> >>>   - Eventual consistency in the namespace
> >>>   - High latency for directory listings
> >>>   - No renames of objects
> >>>   - No folder hierarchy
> >>>
> >>> Rationale
> >>>
> >>> Initial benchmarks show dramatic improvements in query planning. For
> >>> example, in Netflix’s Atlas use case, which stores time-series metrics
> >> from
> >>> Netflix runtime systems and 1 month is stored across 2.7 million files
> in
> >>> 2,688 partitions:
> >>>
> >>>   - Hive table using Parquet:
> >>>  - 400k+ splits, not combined
> >>>  - Explain query: 9.6 minutes wall time (planning only)
> >>>   - Iceberg table with partition filtering:
> >>>  - 15,218 splits, combined
> >>>  - Planning: 10 seconds
> >>>  - Query wall time: 13 minutes
> >>>   - Iceberg table with partition and min/max filtering:
> >>>  - 412 splits
> >>>  - Planning: 25 seconds
> >>>  - Query wall time: 42 seconds
> >>>
> >>> These performance gains combined with the cross-engine compatibility
> are
> >> a
> >>> very compelling story.
> >>> Initial Goals
> >>>
> >>> The initial goal will be to move the existing codebase to Apache and
> >>> integrate with the Apache development process and infrastructure. A
> >> primary
> >>> goal of incubation will be to grow and diversify the Iceberg community.
> >> We
> >>> are well aware that the project community is largely comprised of
> >>> individuals from a single company. We aim to change that during
> >> incubation.
> >>> Current Status
> >>>
> >>> As previously mentioned, Iceberg is under active development at
> Netflix,
> >>> and is being used in processing large volumes of data in Amazon EC2.
> >>>
> >>> Iceberg license documentation is already based on Apache guidelines for
> >>> LICENSE and NOTICE content.
> >>> Meritocracy
> >>>
> >>> We value meritocracy and we understand that it is the basis for an open
> >>> community that encourages multiple companies and individuals to
> >> contribute
> >>> and be invested in the project’s future. We will encourage and monitor
> >>> participation and make sure to extend privileges and responsibilities
> to
> >>> all contributors.
> >>> Community
> >>>
> >>> Iceberg is currently being used by developers at Netflix and a growing
> >>> number of users are actively using it in production environments.
> Iceberg
> >>> has received contributions from developers working at Hortonworks,
> >> WeWork,
> >>> and Palantir. By bringing Iceberg to Apache 

Re: [DISCUSS] Iceberg proposal for incubation

[Lars Francke]

I've been following the Iceberg project on and off for a while now and I
think this is desperately needed. I don't claim to understand all of the
details but I'm very happy to hear this being proposed for Apache. I think
it'd be a great fit. Thank you Ryan and everyone else working on this so
far.

The proposal looks good to me.

Cheers,
Lars

On Tue, Nov 13, 2018 at 4:01 AM Dave Fisher  wrote:

> Looks good to me. The challenge here is community development. With such
> mentor/committer engagement I trust that the Apache Way is covered!
>
> Regards,
> Dave
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Nov 12, 2018, at 6:46 PM, Kevin A. McGrail 
> wrote:
> >
> >> On 11/12/2018 3:17 PM, Ryan Blue wrote:
> >> Thanks for pointing that out, Dave. That section was accidentally not
> >> updated after I copied the markup template. I'll fix it.
> > Looks good to me.  That's a lot of data to query!
> >
> > -
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
> >
>
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
>
>

Re: Request to join the IPMC

[Lars Francke]

I'm happy to start a new thread as well but I thought I might as well join
in this one.

I'm also a member and would love to join the Incubator PMC. I haven't been
as active as I'd like but I hope that'll change :)

On Thu, Jul 12, 2018 at 3:44 PM, Bertrand Delacretaz <
bdelacre...@codeconsult.ch> wrote:

> Hi Ignasi,
>
> On Wed, Jul 11, 2018 at 12:38 AM Ignasi Barrera  wrote:
> > ...I am also a member of the Apache jclouds PMC and several years ago I
> went
> > through its incubation process, and also a Member of the Foundation...
>
> ASF Members can join the Incubator PMC just by asking - I'm BCCing
> this to our private@ list where our PMC chair should notice it. If
> not, please ping us in a few days!
>
> -Bertrand
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
>
>

Re: [DISCUSS] Spot Incubation Proposal

[Lars Francke]

Thank you Doug.

On a cursory look this seems related to the currently incubating Metron
project. The documentation on both projects is relatively scarce. Do you
happen to have any insight on overlap between those two or am I completely
off here by comparing those two?

On Tue, Sep 13, 2016 at 7:50 PM, Doug Cutting  wrote:

> Please find attached a proposal for a new podling, Apache Spot, a
> platform for network telemetry (packet, flow, and proxy at the moment)
> built on an open data model and Apache Hadoop.
>
> The draft proposal is on the wiki at:
>
> https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/SpotProposal
>
> I have also included the current text of that page below.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Doug
>
> = SpotProposal =
>
> == Abstract ==
>
> Spot is an open source platform for network telemetry (packet, flow,
> and proxy at the moment) built on an open data model and Apache
> Hadoop.
>
> == Proposal ==
>
> Spot (formerly Open Network Insight, or ONI) is an open source
> solution for network telemetry (packet, flow, and proxy at the moment)
> built on an open data model and Apache Hadoop. It provides ingestion
> and transformation of binary data, scalable machine learning, and
> interactive visualization for identifying threats in network flows and
> DNS packets.
>
> Spot has a pluggable architecture that can accommodate multiple open
> data models. Although cybersecurity/network-intrusion analysis is the
> initial use case for Spot, we are actively encouraging the
> contribution of new models that will enable other adjacent
> applications, such as fraud detection or IT-operational analytics such
> as performance and health monitoring. Because these models are open,
> users maintain control of their own data.
>
> More information on Spot can be found at the existing project website
> at http://open-network-insight.org/.
>
> == Background ==
>
> It almost goes without saying that cybersecurity is an acute and
> paramount concern globally, for organizations of all types and
> sizes. Fortunately, thanks to the availability of massively scalable
> (in the PBs) data infrastructure, security professionals can now make
> authentically data-driven decisions about how they protect their
> assets. For example, records of network traffic, captured as network
> flows, are often stored and analyzed for use in network management,
> and this same information can provide valuable insights into network
> vulnerabilities.
>
> Cybersecurity is just one example, however: There are other examples
> of adjacent use cases, such as user fraud detection or IT-operations
> analytics, that would benefit from the combination of Spot
> functionality and PB-scale data sets for analysis.
>
> == Rationale ==
>
> Although cybersecurity is its initial use case/data model, Spot is
> intended to more generally tackle the dual challenges of facilitating
> the development of big data-driven analytic solutions, while helping
> vendors avoid having to create one/off infrastructure for each use
> case. Spot will eliminate issues related to vendor data models that
> create silos between solutions, and that make it difficult for users
> to consume these innovations from multiple vendors. In summary, Spot
> will accelerate the development of new massively scalable analytic
> applications that give users more flexibility, and more choices.
>
> As an initial effort, we are now seeking to build an ecosystem of
> developers, data scientists, and security professionals to make Spot
> the open, community-driven, cybersecurity platform standard it needs
> to become. By bringing Spot to Apache, we hope to galvanize these
> groups to cooperate in this highly matrixed effort, and to build a
> global, and diverse, Spot community.
>
> == Initial Goals ==
>
> Move the existing codebase, website, documentation, and mailing lists
> to Apache-hosted infrastructure Work with the infrastructure team to
> implement and approve our build and testing workflows in the context
> of the ASF Incremental development and releases per Apache guidelines
>
> == Current Status ==
>
> === Releases ===
>
> Spot has undergone one public release (1.0). This initial release was
> not performed in the typical ASF fashion; we will adopt the ASF source
> release process upon joining the incubator.
>
> === Source ===
>
> Spot’s source, including core platform and associated submodules, is
> currently hosted in several GitHub repositories under the indicated
> licenses:
>
>  * Core (Apache License 2.0)
>  * Oni-ingest (Apache License 2.0)
>  * Oni-ml (Apache License 2.0
>  * Oni-oa (BSD & MIT)
>  * Oni-setup (Apache License 2.0)
>  * Oni-nfdump (BSD)
>  * Oni-lda-c (GNU General Public License version 2)
>
> The repositories will be transitioned to Apache’s git hosting during
> incubation.  Issues related to GPL code will be resolved during
> incubation.
>
>
> === Issue Tracking ===
>
> Spot’s bug and feature tracking is hosted on Github at:
>
>  * 

Re: [DISCUSS] CarbonData incubation proposal

[Lars Francke]

Hi Jean-Baptiste,

can you - or anyone else for that matter - comment on how it relates to
Parquet and ORC?

The Github page says "The CaronData file format provides a highly efficient
way to store structured data,it was designed to overcome limitations of the
other Hadoop file formats." so it'd be very interesting to know which
limitations were encountered and how these are fixed here.

Good luck with the proposal.

Thank you!

Lars

On Thu, May 19, 2016 at 5:52 AM, Jean-Baptiste Onofré 
wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> We would like to discuss about a new proposal for the incubator:
> CarbonData.
>
> CarbonData is a new Apache Hadoop native file format for faster
> interactive query using advanced columnar storage, index, compression and
> encoding techniques to improve computing efficiency, in turn it will help
> speedup queries an order of magnitude faster over PetaBytes of data.
>
> The proposal is included below and also available on the wiki:
>
> https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/CarbonDataProposal
>
> Please, provide any feedback or comment.
>
> Thanks !
> Regards
> JB
>
> = Apache CarbonData =
>
> == Abstract ==
>
> Apache CarbonData is a new Apache Hadoop native file format for faster
> interactive
> query using advanced columnar storage, index, compression and encoding
> techniques
> to improve computing efficiency, in turn it will help speedup queries an
> order of
> magnitude faster over PetaBytes of data.
>
> CarbonData github address: https://github.com/HuaweiBigData/carbondata
>
> == Backgrounad ==
>
> Huawei is an ICT solution provider, we are committed to enhancing customer
> experiences for telecom carriers, enterprises, and consumers on big data,
> In order to satisfy the following customer requirements, we created a new
> Hadoop native file format:
>
>  * Support interactive OLAP-style query over big data in seconds.
>  * Support fast query on individual record which require touching all
> fields.
>  * Fast data loading speed and support incremental load in period of
> minutes.
>  * Support HDFS so that customer can leverage existing Hadoop cluster.
>  * Support time based data retention.
>
> Based on these requirements, we investigated existing file formats in the
> Hadoop eco-system, but we could not find a suitable solution that
> satisfying requirements all at the same time, so we start designing
> CarbonData.
>
> == Rationale ==
>
> CarbonData contains multiple modules, which are classified into two
> categories:
>
>  1. CarbonData File Format: which contains core implementation for file
> format such as columnar,index,dictionary,encoding+compression,API for
> reading/writing etc.
>  2. CarbonData integration with big data processing framework such as
> Apache Spark, Apache Hive etc. Apache Beam is also planned to abstract the
> execution runtime.
>
> === CarbonData File Format ===
>
> CarbonData file format is a columnar store in HDFS, it has many features
> that a modern columnar format has, such as splittable, compression schema
> ,complex data type etc. And CarbonData has following unique features:
>
>  Indexing 
>
> In order to support fast interactive query, CarbonData leverage indexing
> technology to reduce I/O scans. CarbonData files stores data along with
> index, the index is not stored separately but the CarbonData file itself
> contains the index. In current implementation, CarbonData supports 3 types
> of indexing:
>
> 1. Multi-dimensional Key (B+ Tree index)
>  The Data block are written in sequence to the disk and within each data
> blocks each column block is written in sequence. Finally, the metadata
> block for the file is written with information about byte positions of each
> block in the file, Min-Max statistics index and the start and end MDK of
> each data block. Since, the entire data in the file is in sorted order, the
> start and end MDK of each data block can be used to construct a B+Tree and
> the file can be logically  represented as a B+Tree with the data blocks as
> leaf nodes (on disk) and the remaining non-leaf nodes in memory.
> 2. Inverted index
>  Inverted index is widely used in search engine. By using this index, it
> helps processing/query engine to do filtering inside one HDFS block.
> Furthermore, query acceleration for count distinct like operation is made
> possible when combining bitmap and inverted index in query time.
> 3. MinMax index
>  For all columns, minmax index is created so that processing/query engine
> can skip scan that is not required.
>
>  Global Dictionary 
>
> Besides I/O reduction, CarbonData accelerates computation by using global
> dictionary, which enables processing/query engines to perform all
> processing on encoded data without having to convert the data (Late
> Materialization). We have observed dramatic performance improvement for
> OLAP analytic scenario where table contains many columns in string data
> type. The data is converted back to the user readable form just before
> 

Re: [PROPOSAL] Samza Proposal

[Lars Francke]

Hi,

interesting proposal!

 If you guys are interested, I have much more in-depth documents comparing
 and contrasting Samza with MUPD8 and Storm.

I for one would be very interested in those documents.

Cheers,
Lars

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