Re: I'm a leader of jakarta.apache-korea.org
Hi, On Fri, 25 Oct 2002 20:21:07 -0400 (Subject: Re: I'm a leader of jakarta.apache-korea.org) Andrew C. Oliver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: P.S. by the way, Andy, how do you think to add to the translation links to Jakarta-Seoul POI project? sure... though I wish that they'd translate more than the front page. If no one submits a patch/does it in the next couple of days I'll handle it in my next productive cycle. -Andy As far as, please -- I strongly believe that the the key for the growth of the open-source communities is i18n, internationalization. -- I am very proud and thank to Andy, Danny and Robert to add to the links to my translation pages (Japanese). ... I mean, POI/ JAMES/ COMMONS. I know that these encouraged all the Japanese guys/developers who had wanted to try to use the Jakarta-Project softwares/products. (Because, I captured the statistics on my pages by Postgres with referers. Andy, if you want to know, I will be pleased to.) Sure, I posted to Jetspeed-dev and Slide-dev (and bcel) the patches for the links to the Japanese tranlation site, and still there's none. (I am not sure the policies of the each projects @ jakarta) -- Again 'and again', #i18n# is the most important issue for all of the projects to go through. Best Regards, Tetsuya. -- Tetsuya KitahataPresident of Terra International, Inc. E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] URL : http://www.terra-intl.com/ (BASP21 Pro) http://www.terra-intl.com/basp21/ (Jakarta no mori) http://www.terra-intl.com/jakarta/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:general-unsubscribe;jakarta.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:general-help;jakarta.apache.org
Re: Adding Lists to EyeBrowse - how?
Yeah... Like POI... sniff... [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: EyeBrowse is a great facility - how do we add other Apache mailing lists to it? -- dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting Work: http://www.multitask.com.au Developers: http://adslgateway.multitask.com.au/developers -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:general-unsubscribe;jakarta.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:general-help;jakarta.apache.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:general-unsubscribe;jakarta.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:general-help;jakarta.apache.org
Re: I'm a leader of jakarta.apache-korea.org
As far as, please will do. (Because, I captured the statistics on my pages by Postgres with referers. Andy, if you want to know, I will be pleased to.) yes please :-) Sure, I posted to Jetspeed-dev and Slide-dev (and bcel) the patches for the links to the Japanese tranlation site, and still there's none. (I am not sure the policies of the each projects @ jakarta) -- Again 'and again', #i18n# is the most important issue for all of the projects to go through. quite possibly :-) -Andy Best Regards, Tetsuya. -- Tetsuya KitahataPresident of Terra International, Inc. E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] URL : http://www.terra-intl.com/ (BASP21 Pro) http://www.terra-intl.com/basp21/ (Jakarta no mori) http://www.terra-intl.com/jakarta/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:general-unsubscribe;jakarta.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:general-help;jakarta.apache.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:general-unsubscribe;jakarta.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:general-help;jakarta.apache.org
Re: New Apache XML Site! :-)
Lazy consensus. Just do it. Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote: David Crossley wrote: Greg Stein wrote: The front page is also totally lacking any information about the the fact that xml.apache.org is a project of the Apache Software Foundation, and it does not provide any link back to www.apache.org. [ there is a tiny copyright at the bottom of the page, but that is insufficient ] Top-left corner is the Apache trail. The lack of other mention is something that needs to be addressed in the xdocs contents for xml-site module. I just patched xml-site/src/documentation/content/xdocs/index.xml to address the specific issue that you raised. The same problem IMHO is with Jakarta. At least the new XML page logo has Apache written in it, while Jakarta lacks it, which is not so good IMO. I made two pages with possible solutions to this: http://cvs.apache.org/~nicolaken/alt1/ http://cvs.apache.org/~nicolaken/alt/ I have proposed alt1 to generaljakarta, and it basically didn't get comments, only one +1 and one +-0. What do you think, should it be done? Also, I have also made a Forrest version of the main Apache site, what do you think, can it be done? http://cvs.apache.org/~nicolaken/apache-www/build/site/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:general-unsubscribe;jakarta.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:general-help;jakarta.apache.org
Re: Linux Magazine article
I'd rather perform their role from 1987-1999 or so ;-) -Andy Martin van den Bemt wrote: I never had you for an idealest. What I think they'll do is start trying to sell the JDK, lock every thing down grasping for some business model...any busines model.then sink slowly into the abyss taking java with them...but I think Sun today is the IBM of the 80s brought foward into the future given a jewel they have no idea what to do with (still). For my sake, I will preform the M$ role of the 80s :))) Mvgr, Martin -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:general-unsubscribe;jakarta.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:general-help;jakarta.apache.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:general-unsubscribe;jakarta.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:general-help;jakarta.apache.org
Re: Linux Magazine article
Never skip a start of something is my motto ;) Mvgr, Martin On Sat, 2002-10-26 at 13:04, Andrew C. Oliver wrote: I'd rather perform their role from 1987-1999 or so ;-) -Andy Martin van den Bemt wrote: I never had you for an idealest. What I think they'll do is start trying to sell the JDK, lock every thing down grasping for some business model...any busines model.then sink slowly into the abyss taking java with them...but I think Sun today is the IBM of the 80s brought foward into the future given a jewel they have no idea what to do with (still). For my sake, I will preform the M$ role of the 80s :))) Mvgr, Martin -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:general-unsubscribe;jakarta.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:general-help;jakarta.apache.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:general-unsubscribe;jakarta.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:general-help;jakarta.apache.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:general-unsubscribe;jakarta.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:general-help;jakarta.apache.org
Re: Linux Magazine article
Jon, Andy, I wish we did have something that supported a non-crappy interface like EOB (eob.sourceforge.net) Stuff like this reminds me of Velocity vs. JSP argument. People realize that EJB sucks ass, so they develop something that is simple to use and implement and makes some real sense...while the whole time, we have Sun pushing their J2EE crap down our throats. Until I get it mounted on the net with some impressive demos it is going to have problems marketing itself. People much prefer to download the client side app of something, see it working, then poke though the source, than download 10Mb+ of stuff and follow six deployment instuctions What I really need is some more demos. We already have a slight fork of Velocity's Forum demo running over RPC, and thus webapps are covered. It is Swing GUIs with a decent interface/impl separated object model that I need. Synergy blah blah with some other open source project. There are a few nice ones already, but they are cursed by being EJB using object models... - Paul -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:general-unsubscribe;jakarta.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:general-help;jakarta.apache.org
Re: [PROPOSAL] Tapestry joins Jakarta
On 26/10/02 15:01, Howard M. Lewis Ship [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So, this went out about a week ago, and the guidelines only cover as far as publishing a proposal on the Jakarta General List. What is the next step? So far, I haven't seen any real negative responses, and a lot of positive ones (I think a lot of ex-WebObjects folks are lurking about :-)). I could summarize in more detail if that would be helpful. Obviously, the PMC hasn't really weighed in. Again, what next? Not being a committer to any of the Jakarta projects, and not being a PMC member, I can't say much on this, but from a general feeling that I gather from different parts of the foundation, I would say that _right_now_ the timing is not that great because of the big reorg going around ASF wide. But the decision is left to the Jakarta committers and PMC members... Pier -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:general-unsubscribe;jakarta.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:general-help;jakarta.apache.org
Re: [PROPOSAL] Tapestry joins Jakarta
Howard M. Lewis Ship wrote: So, this went out about a week ago, and the guidelines only cover as far as publishing a proposal on the Jakarta General List. What is the next step? So far, I haven't seen any real negative responses, and a lot of positive ones (I think a lot of ex-WebObjects folks are lurking about :-)). I could summarize in more detail if that would be helpful. Obviously, the PMC hasn't really weighed in. Again, what next? I'm +1 overall, but as Peter aluded to previously there are some mechanics to be worked out. This has nothing directly to do with your proposal, merely that there is a new incubator committee which is in the process of forming, and a strong desire for this to be used for contributions such as these. So, in other words, you may very well get to be a guinee pig. Whee! For a peek into the current status, see http://incubator.apache.org/ I was going to wait further in the hopes that there will be more structure in place to greet you when you get there, but perhaps a tangible contribution is exactly what the incubator team needs to provide focus. So, without further ado, I suggest you join the [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list and introduce yourself. They know you are coming. Please don't take this as being shuttled about. I plan to monitor this, and will step in and provide helpful nudges if it ever appears to stall. - Sam Ruby -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:general-unsubscribe;jakarta.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:general-help;jakarta.apache.org
Re: [PROPOSAL] Tapestry joins Jakarta
Mr Ship, I totally disagree with Pier's statement (and you'll find many here will feel the same as I on this). The opinion of Tapestry joining is very good. Realize Apache is more like a confederation than anything. So different people feel differently. We're still ironing out a new process as Pier said, however most folks I've spoken to have felt that the Apache voting rules must be adopted as a first step not later. Dion and I have both committed to helping you with this transition (though I don't think he ever stated so publically...Dion?). And I'll be happy to subscribe to the tapestry list if you desire and help you build the structure. The steps as I see them: 1. Adopt apache voting rules 2. Vote to join and relicense (in one swoop) 3. Submit a formal proposal 4. You're in The challenges ahead are: 1. Apache: figure out what the procedure is that you will join under (my position is it doesn't matter as long as things are relaxed on you because we wanted to try something out and that things aren't full of extra hurdles because the procedure is in transition) 2. Tapestry: Find your voting committers, reorganize yourself into a meritocratic structure 3. All: Patience and due dilligence. Me Dion 1. Find a sponsoring member 2. Assist you in reorganizing 3. Assist you in your propoasal 4. Make our case 5. Assist you in getting your sources/structures here. Thats as clearly as i can lay it out. Hopefully others will chime in constructively and clear up anything I got wrong or is fuzzy ;-) -Andy Pier Fumagalli wrote: On 26/10/02 15:01, Howard M. Lewis Ship [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So, this went out about a week ago, and the guidelines only cover as far as publishing a proposal on the Jakarta General List. What is the next step? So far, I haven't seen any real negative responses, and a lot of positive ones (I think a lot of ex-WebObjects folks are lurking about :-)). I could summarize in more detail if that would be helpful. Obviously, the PMC hasn't really weighed in. Again, what next? Not being a committer to any of the Jakarta projects, and not being a PMC member, I can't say much on this, but from a general feeling that I gather from different parts of the foundation, I would say that _right_now_ the timing is not that great because of the big reorg going around ASF wide. But the decision is left to the Jakarta committers and PMC members... Pier -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:general-unsubscribe;jakarta.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:general-help;jakarta.apache.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:general-unsubscribe;jakarta.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:general-help;jakarta.apache.org
Re: [PROPOSAL] Tapestry joins Jakarta
On 26/10/02 15:20, Andrew C. Oliver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I totally disagree with Pier's statement (and you'll find many here will feel the same as I on this). The opinion of Tapestry joining is very good. Realize Apache is more like a confederation than anything. So different people feel differently. We're still ironing out a new process as Pier said, however most folks I've spoken to have felt that the Apache voting rules must be adopted as a first step not later. Dion and I have both committed to helping you with this transition (though I don't think he ever stated so publically...Dion?). And I'll be happy to subscribe to the tapestry list if you desire and help you build the structure. I don't quite understand on what you disagree... I remain in the position of doubt, I agree completely that (quote) the Apache voting rules must be adopted as a first step not later, as I always believed that our voting system is the key, but Sam (your Jakarta PMC president) is saying: On 26/10/02 15:12, Sam Ruby [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm +1 overall, but as Peter aluded to previously there are some mechanics to be worked out. This has nothing directly to do with your proposal, merely that there is a new incubator committee which is in the process of forming, and a strong desire for this to be used for contributions such as these. So, in other words, you may very well get to be a guinee pig. Whee! For a peek into the current status, see http://incubator.apache.org/ Now, this looks like a little bit contradictory to me, you say let's vote (and I assume that the Jakarta community needs to vote), the Jakarta president says let's make Incubator vote, and Tapestry be our guinea pig. As I said, I'm not a part of this community (not a committer, not a PMC member), neither a member of the Incubator community, but seeing it things from a little bit of distance, WHO needs to vote? Jakarta or Incubator? I still keep my reasonable doubt that _right_now_ timing is not right, and that certain issues about who and where need to be solved before Tapestry, or any other project FWIW, can land in the Apache sphere... Pier -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:general-unsubscribe;jakarta.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:general-help;jakarta.apache.org
Re: [PROPOSAL] Tapestry joins Jakarta
Now, this looks like a little bit contradictory to me, you say let's vote (and I assume that the Jakarta community needs to vote), the Jakarta president says let's make Incubator vote, and Tapestry be our guinea pig. So? I think Sam and Ken and the rest are committed to making this relatively painless (sorry for the cross post, I don't like talking about people behind their back...I prefer a more personal approach to insults...hehe ;-) ). I'm committed to avoiding the Apache the land of Catch-22s Syndrome.. We'll get there. As I said, I'm not a part of this community (not a committer, not a PMC member), neither a member of the Incubator community, but seeing it things from a little bit of distance, WHO needs to vote? Jakarta or Incubator? little details... We'll work them out. Lets be positive :-) I still keep my reasonable doubt that _right_now_ timing is not right, and that certain issues about who and where need to be solved before Tapestry, or any other project FWIW, can land in the Apache sphere... No the timing is perfect. The timing to work with them to bring them into the fold. The completion of this task requires hard work dedication and committment. The great news is these are parallel tasks. Tapestry can adopt apache voting rules while we mold the pottery with our flames (j/k) over here! Isn't this good stuff? I think so. (but then again I'm very strange) Lets not inundate them with details, lets just be helpful. Who's with us? -Andy Pier -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:general-unsubscribe;jakarta.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:general-help;jakarta.apache.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:general-unsubscribe;jakarta.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:general-help;jakarta.apache.org
Re: New logo for Jakarta, following the one on www.apache.org
On Fri, 2002-10-25 at 00:50, Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote: Attached is a rehashed logo for Jakarta to mimic more the one on the main Apache page, and explicitly state that Jakarta is an Apache project. What do you think, should we use this instead? yes, though the trailing slash should be in the url :) - Leo -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:general-unsubscribe;jakarta.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:general-help;jakarta.apache.org
Re: [PROPOSAL] Tapestry joins Jakarta
snip descrption=left only the stuff I liked because a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest...hum.mmm.humm/ !-- thinking of that street musician guy -- let's be positive... As I said, I can't claim right anywhere, so, after expressing my doubts, I will shut up. Why no you certainly can! Lend a hand, we'd value your experience, knowledge and good judgement! Lend us a hand and you'll have all the license you need :-) -Andy Pier -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:general-unsubscribe;jakarta.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:general-help;jakarta.apache.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:general-unsubscribe;jakarta.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:general-help;jakarta.apache.org
[ºÎÀçÁ߸ÞÀÏ] [ANN] Turbine-2.2 RC1 and Torque 3.0 RC1 available
This mail address is obsolete! _ Çѹ̸£ ¸ÞÀÏ ( http://mail.hanmir.com/ ) ¿ì¸®³¢¸® ÅëÇÏ´Â ÀÎÅÍ³Ý ¾ÆÁöÆ® Çѹ̸£ ( http://www.hanmir.com/ ) ---BeginMessage--- Release Candidates of Turbine 2.2 and Torque 3.0 are available for download. The release also includes the TDK. If you are using a previous version of Torque and/or Turbine you should migrate your apps now! There will be no major changes before the final releases! A list of changes can be found on the web-site http://jakarta.apache.org/turbine/turbine-2/changes.html http://jakarta.apache.org/turbine/torque/changes.html The distributions are available at: http://jakarta.apache.org/builds/jakarta-turbine/turbine2/release/2.2-rc1/ http://jakarta.apache.org/builds/jakarta-turbine/torque/release/3.0-rc1/ http://jakarta.apache.org/builds/jakarta-turbine/tdk/release/2.2-rc1/ Martin -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:announcements-unsubscribe;jakarta.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:announcements-help;jakarta.apache.org ---End Message--- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:general-unsubscribe;jakarta.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:general-help;jakarta.apache.org
Re: [PROPOSAL] Tapestry joins Jakarta
Pier Fumagalli wrote: Now, this looks like a little bit contradictory to me, you say let's vote (and I assume that the Jakarta community needs to vote), the Jakarta president says let's make Incubator vote, and Tapestry be our guinea pig. As I said, I'm not a part of this community (not a committer, not a PMC member), neither a member of the Incubator community, but seeing it things from a little bit of distance, WHO needs to vote? Jakarta or Incubator? http://jakarta.apache.org/site/management.html For Tapestry to become a subproject of Jakarta requires a 3/4 majority of the PMC. I am very interested in getting the incubator team to help with the licensing issues and community issues. I am optimistic about the outcome as there are plenty of people motivated to make this work. - Sam Ruby -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:general-unsubscribe;jakarta.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:general-help;jakarta.apache.org
moving to a top-level project (was: [Ant nudge STATUS] Better than we thought...)
On Sat, Oct 26, 2002 at 07:30:31AM -0400, Andrew C. Oliver wrote: ... The idea: ant.apache.org would become a valid url Yes. ant would have its own PMC composed of whomever the committers decide (I guess) The Board passes a resolution establishing the PMC. That resolution defines who the members of the PMC are, and who the Chair is. Since the Board has very little visibility into the Ant community (i.e. who the stakeholders are), we'd look to them to provide the Board with the slate of people for the PMC. My personal recommendation is for a larger PMC (e.g. not limited to N people). In particular, the people who have been committers for a long while (basically, the long-time stakeholders in Ant). Over time, the PMC can vote to add new PMC members to itself. ant would report directly to the board Yes. In particular, this means that the Chair provides a quarterly report to the Board. For an example of these reports, see these Board meeting minutes: http://www.apache.org/foundation/records/minutes/2002/board_minutes_2002_09_18.txt Once the PMC is established with its resulting oversight, the PMC members receive the legal protection of the ASF (should any problem arise via the Ant software). There is quite a bit more related to having a PMC, but the largest is really demonstrating that the ASF is providing a proper umbrella and oversight to the code that it is developing. unresolved (but I think open...or maybe I'm wrong) relationship between ant and Jakarta (I'm assuming it would answer to Jakarta only in name/branding) jakarta.apache.org/ant still valid url? The Jakarta branding would/could/should still apply to Ant. Nothing to change there. The old URL would simply redirect to the new ant.apache.org website. There certainly wouldn't have to be any changes in the community -- people still interact with whomever they want, on whatever mailing lists. Advantage: greater exposure As a top-level project, Ant joins the others on the left-hand nav bar on www.apache.org (and other places). greater scope (maybe some cross polination with the C folk would happen..I'd say others but I'm not sure TCL or PERL need build tools...though I could be wrong) Ant would no longer be officially constrained by the Jakarta charter. Ant could set its own destiny. greater access to the members/board Well, this has always been possible. But I would say that the Board, members, ASF visitors, etc have greater access to the Ant community. Disadvantage reporting directly to the board (from a laziness perspective...I think you have to actually report though I could be wrong) Once per quarter is all. An email from the Ant PMC Chair to board@ you'd be the first to make the transition Well, we've got plenty of experience starting projects, so this probably won't be too difficult. Ant is the project I personally would like to see be top level most. Ant, Tomcat, Struts, Turbine, Avalon, etc all have a large communities around them. Some of the XML projects like Cocoon and Xerces have a similar situation. Moving these projects to the top-level can provide greater visibility, and it removes any question on whether enough oversight exists to provider the developers with the ASF's legal umbrella. At this point, moving to be a top-level project is a choice for each project to make (or to stay with XML or Jakarta). The reorg@ mailing list is about coming up with recommendations for an ASF-wide reorg (which could result in some recommended and/or mandated changes), but that is still in process, and probably will be for a while. And who really knows what the output of that process will be. Suggestion: Someone who understands the proposed process of this happening draft a formal proposal to be voted on.. Each project can submit a proposed resolution to board@ for moving themselves to a top-level project. For the form of such a resolution, see the Board meeting minutes that I referenced above (where the Apache Commons Project is established). This isn't an all-or-nothing which requires formal proposal. Just a consensus within a project and submission of a resolution. The Board would vote on it at the next meeting. Cheers, -g -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] ... ASF Chairman ... http://www.apache.org/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:general-unsubscribe;jakarta.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:general-help;jakarta.apache.org
Re: [PROPOSAL] Tapestry joins Jakarta
On 26/10/02 19:25, Sam Ruby [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Pier Fumagalli wrote: WHO needs to vote? Jakarta or Incubator? http://jakarta.apache.org/site/management.html For Tapestry to become a subproject of Jakarta requires a 3/4 majority of the PMC. I am very interested in getting the incubator team to help with the licensing issues and community issues. I am optimistic about the outcome as there are plenty of people motivated to make this work. WHO needs to vote? Jakarta or Incubator? Pier (dumb) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:general-unsubscribe;jakarta.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:general-help;jakarta.apache.org
Re: [PROPOSAL] Tapestry joins Jakarta
http://jakarta.apache.org/site/management.html For Tapestry to become a subproject of Jakarta requires a 3/4 majority of the PMC. I am very interested in getting the incubator team to help with the licensing issues and community issues. I am optimistic about the outcome as there are plenty of people motivated to make this work. WHO needs to vote? Jakarta or Incubator? From reading this incubator.apache.org I would say the incubator. However I think that makes it a top level project. Otherwise its jakarta. Personally, I don't give a rat's behind to be honest. Back when I was in college (which I dropped out of to catch most of the Boom...thank god or I'd have graduated in time for the bust with no experience!)... I had this misfortune of being on the Student Government (ours was called something else which escapes memory because it was appointed...basically anyone who wanted to actually be on it could be). Well we were funded to and went to the State (or was it regional? It was in tallahassee that part I do remember.) meeting of these. The agenda was very simple and easy and could have been done in a 15 minute meeting had there not been a contingent who determined to fillibuster 2 days worth of talk with their mastery of the Robert's rules of order. You see they debated the procedures and the such until the last hour when the board finally told them to sit down and shut up (which I'm sure violated page something or other) and we managed to pass one miniscule resolution of something stupid or other. While the procedure and all that is very interesting and is important for the future of apache, it is not *particularly* important in the scope of accepting tapestry. As long as there are do-ers, it meets the guidelines for community, etc -- and there is a certain amount of good will, what is destined to be for the better will happen. Maybe the project won't organize itself properly...maybe they'll not make the cut...I think they will, but regardless. Or we can be like the florida something or other board of student governments and fillibuster ourselves to death over procedure, all get ticked off and argue until the apopcalypse... I would prefer the former rather than the latter but I'm a crazy man...so what do I know. (Plus I've had an enormous chimichanga and a pint of Dos Equis...so I'm prone to be more democratically philisophical about things...) -andy Pier (dumb) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:general-unsubscribe;jakarta.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:general-help;jakarta.apache.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:general-unsubscribe;jakarta.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:general-help;jakarta.apache.org
Re: moving to a top-level project (was: [Ant nudge STATUS] Better than we thought...)
On Sat, Oct 26, 2002 at 06:11:55PM -0400, Sam Ruby wrote: Greg Stein wrote: The Board passes a resolution establishing the PMC. That resolution defines who the members of the PMC are, and who the Chair is. Since the Board has very little visibility into the Ant community (i.e. who the stakeholders are), we'd look to them to provide the Board with the slate of people for the PMC. indignation type=mock Ahem. Some of us have more visibility than others, perhaps. :-P /indignation hehe... yes. I meant the Board as a whole. You're 1 of 9, and our regular reports on Ant are filtered by whatever color glasses you might be wearing at the time :-). To get the same visibility into the Ant project that the Board gets for its other projects would be a *huge* burden on you (as the Jakarta Chair) to come up with that report. Sheesh... it would be pages and pages to cover all of Jakarta (!!). I certainly would not want to require that from anybody (while the Directors and various officers have legal responsibilities, when you get down to it, we really want to retain that notion of volunteerism). My personal recommendation is for a larger PMC (e.g. not limited to N people). In particular, the people who have been committers for a long while (basically, the long-time stakeholders in Ant). Over time, the PMC can vote to add new PMC members to itself. Personally, I'd amend that (given my visibility into Ant community and all that) to be both long time *AND* currently active. Oh! Yes, absolutely. When you're initially setting up a PMC, that makes the best sense. When we set up the APR PMC, we started with the active httpd and Subversion developers (these were the real stakeholders in seeing a successful APR), and put them on the PMC. But we also made it such that an httpd PMCer/developer could simply ask, and we'd add them. IOW, this easy on attitude was kind of a safety valve for oops. we forgot to add you :-) Few have been committers to Ant longer than I have, but this year I have done a few commits at most. While I believe that I still have earned enough trust and respect to commit my own patches and vote on topics that I plan to actively participate in solving, I would not feel the slightest bit slighted if I were not included in the proposed PMC list. (Rest assured that I will poke my head in from time to time anyway). *nod* But I would also counter that you have a long-term view on Ant which could be valuable to the PMC. The PMC is in charge of adding committers and members to itself. To that end, your vote on who would make a good committer or not is valuable. (in the sense that the PMC is looking out for the ASF's interests, and providing commit access to the ASF's code implies a sense of trust that the committer will do right by the ASF). Cheers, -g -- Greg Stein, http://www.lyra.org/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:general-unsubscribe;jakarta.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:general-help;jakarta.apache.org
Dear incubator
Dear incubator, I feel like I'm speaking to the wizard of Oz posting to a list I can't see ;-) Tapestry (tapestry.sourceforge.net) is a web app framework similar in use and scope to Velocity/turbine and JSP/Struts, but certainly very different in approach. dIon Gillard and I have both agreed to help with the transition. However we both feel the first step is for the tapestry community (to whom's mail list I am now subscribed) to adopt apache voting rules (http://httpd.apache.org/dev/guidelines.html) before joining. once they've demonstrated this transition and identified 3 core committers, we should identify whether they go through some new process or identify the new incubator process. Whatever the case they should not be unduely lubricated through the guidelines, nor unduely inhibited by the transition. I think we're all up to this challenge and this could (hopefully) set a very nice precident. To this end and to the ends of providing more interaction between the various elements here at apache, I would like to suggest Ken Coar whom I have approached as the member sponsor and advisor of the project and has stated his interest. His experience and abillities will be an asset to this transition as well as provide greater insight to the rest of the Apache community on the goings on of a Java/Jakarta project. I'd like to start a conversation on what the process/guidelines for accepting Tapestry should be at the same time and what its path for acceptance as either a Jakarta project or top level apache project should be. I would suggest that this discussion happen on the community at apache list and move to the general at jakarta list if deemed appropriate as dion and I cannot participate in the pmcincubator list nor can the project principals. Thanks for your support, Andrew C. Oliver committer POI, Lucene contributer Cocoon, JAMES -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:general-unsubscribe;jakarta.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:general-help;jakarta.apache.org
Re: Dear incubator
Since the discussion was initiated here on general@jakarta, I'd prefer we kept it here until there is a way forward via incubator, rather than move it off to yet another list. -- dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting Work: http://www.multitask.com.au Developers: http://adslgateway.multitask.com.au/developers Andrew C. Oliver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 27/10/2002 11:30:10 AM: Dear incubator, I feel like I'm speaking to the wizard of Oz posting to a list I can't see ;-) Tapestry (tapestry.sourceforge.net) is a web app framework similar in use and scope to Velocity/turbine and JSP/Struts, but certainly very different in approach. dIon Gillard and I have both agreed to help with the transition. However we both feel the first step is for the tapestry community (to whom's mail list I am now subscribed) to adopt apache voting rules ( http://httpd.apache.org/dev/guidelines.html) before joining. once they've demonstrated this transition and identified 3 core committers, we should identify whether they go through some new process or identify the new incubator process. Whatever the case they should not be unduely lubricated through the guidelines, nor unduely inhibited by the transition. I think we're all up to this challenge and this could (hopefully) set a very nice precident. To this end and to the ends of providing more interaction between the various elements here at apache, I would like to suggest Ken Coar whom I have approached as the member sponsor and advisor of the project and has stated his interest. His experience and abillities will be an asset to this transition as well as provide greater insight to the rest of the Apache community on the goings on of a Java/Jakarta project. I'd like to start a conversation on what the process/guidelines for accepting Tapestry should be at the same time and what its path for acceptance as either a Jakarta project or top level apache project should be. I would suggest that this discussion happen on the community at apache list and move to the general at jakarta list if deemed appropriate as dion and I cannot participate in the pmc@incubator list nor can the project principals. Thanks for your support, Andrew C. Oliver committer POI, Lucene contributer Cocoon, JAMES -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:general-unsubscribe;jakarta.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:general-help;jakarta.apache.org ForwardSourceID:NT0008711E -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:general-unsubscribe;jakarta.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:general-help;jakarta.apache.org
