Re: Why is the Tomcat so frisky???

[Kevin A. Burton - burtonator]

James Duncan Davidson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> On 12/15/01 20:31, "Kevin A. Burton - burtonator" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> 
> > What is the deal with that Tomcat logo?
> > I know it is from the old Tomcat product even while it is back at SUN.
> 
> Bzzzt. Wrong answer. The logo was paid for by Sun, but happened after the
> Tomcat source code was dropped to the public.

Are you sure?  I was using Tomcat before it came over to Apache and it did have
that Tomcat logo... or something very similar.

Anyone have an old .zip or tar :)


> It's a leg. At no point during the design did any of us (2 males and one
> female) associate the 3rd leg with the implement that you have now associated
> it with. It was until your post that I saw that for the first time in the
> almost three years it has been since we did that logo.

That is funny!

I saw it a year ago after ApacheCon on the mug you gave me...

I was just staring at it and it hit me... that is not a leg!

I either figured it was created by a TOTAL genius or just a random fluke!

... but a funny random fluke! :)

> But now that you point it out.. You sick sick man. :)


... ug.

Kevin

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Using JPDA to dump the state of a running VM.

[Kevin A. Burton - burtonator]

OK.

I create this project in the past

http://javacore.sourceforge.net/

but never added JPDA support because I didn't really have a JVM to play with.
JPDA in JDK 1.2.2 sucked but in 1.4 it is pretty solid.

It would be nice to have a project that could:

- connect to a running VM over IP

- suspend it dump the current state including threads, locals, source (if
available), etc.

- save the output to an XML file for later debugging.

This could be a win for Apache because it could enable us to accept 'core dumps'
from running server VMs so that we could debug them outside of their original
environment.

Thoughts?

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Re: Coding style addition

[Kevin A. Burton - burtonator]

"Craig R. McClanahan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> On 15 Dec 2001, Kevin A. Burton - burtonator wrote:
> 
> >
> > Perhaps.
> >
> > It might be a good idea to have a default recommendation or a global standard.
> >
> > ... anyway...
> >
> 
> The most entertaining flamewars I've ever seen are atempts to gain
> consensus on whether to use tabs or not, and then how many characters an
> indent is :-).

I think this is strong advantage of python... indentation is important.

It made me sick at first but really makes sense in the long term.

Kevin

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Coding style addition

[Kevin A. Burton - burtonator]

Has this been accepted as psuedo standard across Jakarta?

http://jakarta.apache.org/turbine/common/code-standards.html

I agree with 90% of it.

Also... I have noticed that a lot of code isn't formated to column 80.  A lot of
people aren't even trying!  :(

What do people think of this as an addition?

Kevin

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Re: Coding style addition

[Kevin A. Burton - burtonator]

Jason van Zyl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> On 12/15/01 4:41 PM, "Kevin A. Burton - burtonator" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> 
> > 
> > Has this been accepted as psuedo standard across Jakarta?
> 
> No, each project has it's own coding style. There's no Jakarta wide standard.

Which is why I said "pseudo standard"

> > http://jakarta.apache.org/turbine/common/code-standards.html
> > 
> > I agree with 90% of it.
> > 
> > Also... I have noticed that a lot of code isn't formated to column 80.  A lot
> > of
> > people aren't even trying!  :(
> > 
> > What do people think of this as an addition?
> 
> I think allowing each project to define what is acceptable is the way it's
> working now and it's probably best to leave it that way.


Perhaps.

It might be a good idea to have a default recommendation or a global standard.

... anyway...

Kevin

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Why is the Tomcat so frisky???

[Kevin A. Burton - burtonator]

http://jakarta.apache.org/tomcat/

OK.

What is the deal with that Tomcat logo?

I know it is from the old Tomcat product even while it is back at SUN.

Who was the artist?  Very cool that this was snuck past SUN marketing.

I mean it is a 2D picture correct?  Why does the kat have 3 legs?  

The point is that the 3rd black leg isn't really a leg.. right?

I mean Tomcats are really well known for one thing.  If you have seen one
roaming your neighborhood at 3AM.

Anyway... would be interesting to hear about how this got created.

Kevin

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Re: Coding style addition

[Kevin A. Burton - burtonator]

Jon Scott Stevens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> on 12/15/01 2:20 PM, "Jason van Zyl" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > I think allowing each project to define what is acceptable is the way it's
> > working now and it's probably best to leave it that way.
> 
> +1
> 
> I can see what Kevin is saying by establishing a 'baseline' though I think
> that getting agreement about what that baseline is will be more discussion
> than it is worth...I think it is easier to simply point at FooProject and say
> that BarProject is going to emulate FooProject...

Good point... I think the Turbine docs are a step towards this.

Having a column, line wrap would be nice though.

Kevin

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Re: Standard "Change Log" and "ToDo"

[Kevin A. Burton - burtonator]

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"Geir Magnusson Jr." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> We use XML format via Anakia in velocity-land and don't have any problems...
> I don't really mind.


Enlighten me... what are the benefits of an XML based changelog... besides the
ability to XSLT it into html (I don't think this is necessary).

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Re: Standard "Change Log" and "ToDo"

[Kevin A. Burton - burtonator]

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Paul Spencer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Is their a standard or common "Change Log" and "To Do" format for Jakarta
> projects?  I would like to add a change log to the Jetspeed project.

No.  I have seen a lot of people use XML changelogs.  This is WAY overkill IMO.
Just use text an a GNU style format.


Version x.x
- ---

* changed foo so that it is now bar

> It appears the Cocoon project uses Stylebook.  Jakarta projects use Anakia,
> but I have not found any macros in Jakarta-site2 that reference a Change Log
> or To Do list.

I predict that they will become sick of working with an XML format  :)

Kevin

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Re: Comment for Apache.org

[Kevin A. Burton - burtonator]

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"Paulo Gaspar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> > The list is named [EMAIL PROTECTED] and not 
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> Ok, I suggest the creation of such mailing list and the creation of 
> a "Jon" page explaining the whole "Jon issue"... linked from Jakarta's
> home page, of course.


Hm... Is Jon becoming the Richard Stallman of the Apache Software Foundation

;) ;)

ha.

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Re: Comment for Apache.org

[Kevin A. Burton - burtonator]

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lloyd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> > Wow. It would be really great if you wrote an email that made some logical
> 
> Having lurked on this list for awhile, I'd say it would be great if you
> could get through one e-mail exchange without being an asshole.

Give jon a break.  With all the hard work he has done he at least deserves the
benefit of the doubt on all these e-mails.

When you come close to 1/5th the amount of work he has done for Apache then you
can judge.

I have no problem with you expressing your viewpoint but calling jon an
"*sshole" was over the top.

If you don't like it, unsubscribe.

Kevin

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Re: log4jME now available

[burtonator]

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Ceki Gülcü <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Hello,
> 
> Log4j MicroEdition, or log4jME, version 1.0-b1 is now available at

God... you *scared* m.  I thought you meant Millennium Edition... ;0

Kevin

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Re: Project idea (Hypersonic)

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James Duncan Davidson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> On Thursday, July 26, 2001, at 03:50 PM, burtonator wrote:
> 
> > I might agree with that.  But IMO we have a lot of things that are out of
> > scope?
> > Ant?  James? Log4J? Regexp?  Come on?  Don't get me wrong..  I LOVE those
> > projects but I think that a DB is more in-scope than they are :)
> > 
> 
> You're right. I think out of the current set of Jakarta projects there are many
> out of scope. I think that they should live somewhere else. I've argued
> unsuccessfully about this before -- and gave up. But just because we have warts
> doesn't mean we should add more.

I think we are just on the classic "slippery slope".  It will probably get worse
before there is uniform acceptance that it exists.

Kevin

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[ANNOUNCE] Reptile 0.0.1

[burtonator]

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The OpenPrivacy project would like the announce the creation and initial release
(0.0.1) of Reptile.

Reptile is an Open Source/Free Software, Peer-to-Peer, content syndication
engine (think RSS/OCS), which is driven by Java/XML and is privacy
protection/Reputation enabled.  Reptile nodes can publish to each other
(everything is driven by XML based subscriptions) and provides a decentralized
authentication model based on public/private key crypto (and Reputation).

Reptile is still in active development but most core features necessary for
daily use have been implemented.  http://reptile.openprivacy.org/features.shtml

Reptile is available at http://reptile.openprivacy.org

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Re: Project idea (Hypersonic)

[burtonator]

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James Duncan Davidson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> On Tuesday, July 24, 2001, at 04:30 PM, GOMEZ Henri wrote:
> 
> > And after all sourceforge is now a really good area
> > to host OpenSource projects (java and others).
> 
> This isn't Sourceforge. I'm actually *not* in favor of bringing a database under
> the Jakarta umbrella. It's out of scope in my opinion --
> and scope creep is a problem that we've been facing for a long time.

I might agree with that.  But IMO we have a lot of things that are out of scope?
Ant?  James? Log4J? Regexp?  Come on?  Don't get me wrong..  I LOVE those
projects but I think that a DB is more in-scope than they are :)


Kevin

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Re: Project idea (Hypersonic)

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"Pier P. Fumagalli" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> GOMEZ Henri at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > 
> > I totally agree and I'll be more than happy to see hsql
> > in jakarta. 
> 
> But they haven't approached us... And I believe the first step should be
> done by them..


Not according to them.  They said that they approached Jakarta about 1 - 1.5
years ago.

Of course that was a LONG time ago :)

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Re: Project idea (Hypersonic)

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"Pier P. Fumagalli" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:


> IMVHO, we shouldn't run after projects who, as you said, have a negative
> inclination towards the Foundation. We have already enough stuff in our bags
> to keep us busy forever, and although the project seems to be pretty cool, I
> don't see a reason why we should incorporate it within our family.
> 
> If one of their team comes up and asks, we can consider it, but I don't feel
> it's our task to go out and convince them to join us...


Yes.  I understand this perspective.  However I think it is important to note
that sometimes cooperation is much better than competition.  

Kevin

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Please don't use hard tabs   in your code.  Instead use 4 spaces.
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Re: Project idea (Hypersonic)

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"Michael McCallum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> try this one with a BSD licence...
> 
> http://sourceforge.net/projects/hsqldb


Just an FYI.

I have spent a lot of time recently working with the Hypersonic people.

There are a number of issues here.  It seems they talked to Apache in the past
about moving Hypersonic under Jakarta but were turned down.  Since then a lot
has happened.

It would be a huge changed in direction for them to move to Jakarta.  They are
creating a non-profit organization to push Hypersonic.  It seems that they have
put a lot of effort into this and I assume they would be hesitant to waste this
when moving over to Apache.

The other aspect, and one that *really* bothers me is that they don't seem to
want to work under the Apache Open Source Development Model.

There CVS modules are all over the place, redundant modules, unnecessary
modules, modules which haven't had commits in months, etc.  They also do not use
mailing lists, the use the SourceForge web forums.  Anyone who is a fan of
mailing lists will really hate their use of webforums.

The other issue is that they have a company founded around Hypersonic and are
making all important decisions behind closed doors.  This does not bode well for
the success of an Open Source project.

I have raised all these issues (and more) to them in an constructive manner but
they do not seem to want outside help.  I really like Hypersonic but am very
doubtful about its future considering these facts.

That said I hope other ASF developers are able to convince them to change their
ways where I have failed.  I am sure more voices will help make these issues
more relevant.

Kevin

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