Re: [gentoo-dev] Review: USE=libav news item
On 27/01/15 01:19, Gordon Pettey wrote: Chromaprint will work /differently/ depending on which is used. I added libav support to it, but the fingerprints are not the same as fingerprints generated when using ffmpeg. I've not gotten around to fixing that, so if such a list is being compiled it should be noted on the "don't arbitrarily switch between ffmpeg and libav if this tool is important to you" list. chromaprint uses a coarse (and quick) resampler if I recall correctly and that would lead to differences if the resampler used is different, I never had the time to check if would be possible to set it to use a specific resampler that would work in the same way. lu
Re: [gentoo-dev] Review: USE=libav news item
On Mon, 26 Jan 2015 20:13:36 +0100 Michał Górny wrote: > > Thanks, applied your suggestions. Please read now ;). > LGTM, thanks
Re: [gentoo-dev] Review: USE=libav news item
On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 6:18 AM, Rich Freeman wrote: > On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 7:00 AM, Alexis Ballier > wrote: > > On Mon, 26 Jan 2015 12:37:09 +0100 > > Alexis Ballier wrote: > > > >> > media-video/mplayer2 or media-video/mpv may be used as a more > >> > modern replacement. > >> > >> Don't recommend mplayer2, afaik it's dead. > > > > Also, I'd drop "modern" from there: I don't see much more modernity in > > those forks except maybe younger maintainers :) > > > > Is there an exhaustive list of packages that don't work with one or > the other? I don't think I've noticed anything I couldn't install for > a lack of libav. > Chromaprint will work /differently/ depending on which is used. I added libav support to it, but the fingerprints are not the same as fingerprints generated when using ffmpeg. I've not gotten around to fixing that, so if such a list is being compiled it should be noted on the "don't arbitrarily switch between ffmpeg and libav if this tool is important to you" list.
Re: [gentoo-dev] Review: USE=libav news item
Dnia 2015-01-26, o godz. 07:18:13 Rich Freeman napisał(a): > On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 7:00 AM, Alexis Ballier wrote: > > On Mon, 26 Jan 2015 12:37:09 +0100 > > Alexis Ballier wrote: > > > >> > media-video/mplayer2 or media-video/mpv may be used as a more > >> > modern replacement. > >> > >> Don't recommend mplayer2, afaik it's dead. > > > > Also, I'd drop "modern" from there: I don't see much more modernity in > > those forks except maybe younger maintainers :) > > > > Is there an exhaustive list of packages that don't work with one or > the other? I don't think I've noticed anything I couldn't install for > a lack of libav. > > I suggest just cutting the subjective parts out of the last paragraph: > > Please also note that some packages support only one of the two > implementations. An attempt to install one of those packages will result > in blockers unless the user changes the global USE=libav state. The most > notable example of such package is media-video/mplayer. media-video/mplayer2 > or > media-video/mpv may be used as replacements for users who prefer to use libav. Thanks, applied your suggestions. Please read now ;). -- Best regards, Michał Górny Title: ffmpeg/libav conflict management: USE=libav Author: MichaÅ Górny Content-Type: text/plain Posted: 2015-01-yy Revision: 1 News-Item-Format: 1.0 Display-If-Installed: media-video/ffmpeg Display-If-Installed: media-video/libav The support for automatic choice between ffmpeg and libav is going to be deprecated in favor of explicit choice via USE flags. This change aims to solve multiple repeating issues, including Portage undesirably wanting to replace one package with the other, subslot upgrade issues and some of the hard-to-understand blocker issues. The current USE=ffmpeg will maintain its role of enabling optional support for ffmpeg or a compatible implementation (libav) in a package. However, whenever appropriate additional USE=libav will be introduced to control the preference of libav over ffmpeg. Users who currently use libav (the Gentoo default) do not have to perform any action since USE=libav is enabled by default. It should be noted that those users will need to enable USE=ffmpeg on packages with optional libav support as well. Users who want to use ffmpeg instead need to specify USE=-libav explicitly. Please also note that some packages support only one of the two implementations. An attempt to install one of those packages may result in blockers unless the user changes the global USE=libav state. The most notable example of such package is media-video/mplayer. media-video/mpv may be used as a replacement for users who prefer libav. pgpALnATFjZfs.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Review: USE=libav news item
On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 10:30 AM, Michał Górny wrote: > Dnia 2015-01-26, o godz. 12:15:49 > Peter Stuge napisał(a): > >> "the ffmpeg fork" above is very confusing because libav is the ffmpeg >> fork, and I think what you mean here is simply "ffmpeg". I suggest: > > Well, you aren't correct which of the two is actually the fork but I > can see the confusion. Well, we can avoid all the politics entirely if we just drop the word fork. The goal here is to avoid driving our users off of cliffs with non-intuitive behavior, not to settle who is right and wrong. -- Rich
Re: [gentoo-dev] Review: USE=libav news item
Dnia 2015-01-26, o godz. 12:15:49 Peter Stuge napisał(a): > Michał Górny wrote: > > Title: USE=libav introduction > > Author: Micha?? G??rny > > Your mailer doesn't set charset for the .txt attachment. NeedPatch :). > > Content-Type: text/plain > > Posted: 2015-01-yy > > Revision: 1 > > News-Item-Format: 1.0 > > Display-If-Installed: media-video/ffmpeg > > Display-If-Installed: media-video/libav > > > > The support for automatic choice between ffmpeg and libav is going to be > > deprecated in favor of explicit choice via USE flags. This change aims > > to solve multiple repeating issues, including Portage undesirably > > wanting to replace one package with the other, subslot upgrade issues > > and some of the hard-to-understand blocker issues. > > > > The current USE=ffmpeg will maintain its role of enabling optional > > support for ffmpeg or a compatible implementation (libav) in a package. > > However, whenever appropriate additional USE=libav will be introduced to > > control the preference of libav over ffmpeg. > > > > Users who currently use libav (the Gentoo default) do not have to > > perform any action since USE=libav is enabled by default. It should be > > noted that those users will need to enable USE=ffmpeg on packages with > > optional libav support as well. > > So far so good. > > > Users who want to use the ffmpeg fork instead need to specify USE=-libav > > explicitly. > > "the ffmpeg fork" above is very confusing because libav is the ffmpeg > fork, and I think what you mean here is simply "ffmpeg". I suggest: Well, you aren't correct which of the two is actually the fork but I can see the confusion. > Users who want to use ffmpeg rather than libav where that is possible > instead need to specify USE=-libav explicitly. > > > > Please also note that some packages support only one of the two > > implementations. An attempt to install one of those packages will result > > in blockers unless the user changes the global USE=libav state. > > This isn't completely accurate.. It's enough to change USE=libav for > the affected packages. I'm afraid I can't offer a wording suggestion > on this one. :\ But you have to do the change on all packages using ffmpeg/libav. Since all packages have to have exactly the same state, I don't really see a point in not setting this a global flag. -- Best regards, Michał Górny pgpdrsqLp2x3B.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Review: USE=libav news item
On Mon, 26 Jan 2015 07:18:13 -0500 Rich Freeman wrote: > On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 7:00 AM, Alexis Ballier > wrote: > > On Mon, 26 Jan 2015 12:37:09 +0100 > > Alexis Ballier wrote: > > > >> > media-video/mplayer2 or media-video/mpv may be used as a more > >> > modern replacement. > >> > >> Don't recommend mplayer2, afaik it's dead. > > > > Also, I'd drop "modern" from there: I don't see much more modernity > > in those forks except maybe younger maintainers :) > > > > Is there an exhaustive list of packages that don't work with one or > the other? not really as ideally there shouldn't be any; mplayer is the most notable example, xbmc used to be but not sure these days > I suggest just cutting the subjective parts out of the last paragraph: > > Please also note that some packages support only one of the two > implementations. An attempt to install one of those packages will > result in blockers unless the user changes the global USE=libav > state. The most notable example of such package is > media-video/mplayer. media-video/mplayer2 or media-video/mpv may be > used as replacements for users who prefer to use libav. > yes that's what i meant, but also dropping mplayer2 from there too: http://git.mplayer2.org/mplayer2/ even good old mplayer is much more actively maintained and evolving :)
Re: [gentoo-dev] Review: USE=libav news item
On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 7:00 AM, Alexis Ballier wrote: > On Mon, 26 Jan 2015 12:37:09 +0100 > Alexis Ballier wrote: > >> > media-video/mplayer2 or media-video/mpv may be used as a more >> > modern replacement. >> >> Don't recommend mplayer2, afaik it's dead. > > Also, I'd drop "modern" from there: I don't see much more modernity in > those forks except maybe younger maintainers :) > Is there an exhaustive list of packages that don't work with one or the other? I don't think I've noticed anything I couldn't install for a lack of libav. I suggest just cutting the subjective parts out of the last paragraph: Please also note that some packages support only one of the two implementations. An attempt to install one of those packages will result in blockers unless the user changes the global USE=libav state. The most notable example of such package is media-video/mplayer. media-video/mplayer2 or media-video/mpv may be used as replacements for users who prefer to use libav. -- Rich
Re: [gentoo-dev] Review: USE=libav news item
On Mon, 26 Jan 2015 12:37:09 +0100 Alexis Ballier wrote: > > media-video/mplayer2 or media-video/mpv may be used as a more > > modern replacement. > > Don't recommend mplayer2, afaik it's dead. Also, I'd drop "modern" from there: I don't see much more modernity in those forks except maybe younger maintainers :) Alexis.
Re: [gentoo-dev] Review: USE=libav news item
On Sat, 24 Jan 2015 11:20:54 +0100 Michał Górny wrote: > > Where is libav USE and package set as default over ffmpeg? I haven't > > found that in profiles/ dir :/ (or is it going to be done when > > implementing this?) > > Right now in virtual/ffmpeg. not entirely true since the virtual won't try to force the switch and systems installed before the split would have had ffmpeg as default
Re: [gentoo-dev] Review: USE=libav news item
On Sat, 24 Jan 2015 00:39:04 +0100 Michał Górny wrote: > Users who want to use the ffmpeg fork > instead need to specify USE=-libav explicitly. As Peter said, please avoid such controversial statements. > The most notable example of such package is > media-video/mplayer which relies on deprecated APIs available only in > ffmpeg. This is false: mplayer uses new "APIs" available only in ffmpeg. Again, please avoid controversy. > media-video/mplayer2 or media-video/mpv may be used as a more > modern replacement. Don't recommend mplayer2, afaik it's dead. Alexis.
Re: [gentoo-dev] Review: USE=libav news item
Michał Górny wrote: > Title: USE=libav introduction > Author: Micha?? G??rny Your mailer doesn't set charset for the .txt attachment. > Content-Type: text/plain > Posted: 2015-01-yy > Revision: 1 > News-Item-Format: 1.0 > Display-If-Installed: media-video/ffmpeg > Display-If-Installed: media-video/libav > > The support for automatic choice between ffmpeg and libav is going to be > deprecated in favor of explicit choice via USE flags. This change aims > to solve multiple repeating issues, including Portage undesirably > wanting to replace one package with the other, subslot upgrade issues > and some of the hard-to-understand blocker issues. > > The current USE=ffmpeg will maintain its role of enabling optional > support for ffmpeg or a compatible implementation (libav) in a package. > However, whenever appropriate additional USE=libav will be introduced to > control the preference of libav over ffmpeg. > > Users who currently use libav (the Gentoo default) do not have to > perform any action since USE=libav is enabled by default. It should be > noted that those users will need to enable USE=ffmpeg on packages with > optional libav support as well. So far so good. > Users who want to use the ffmpeg fork instead need to specify USE=-libav > explicitly. "the ffmpeg fork" above is very confusing because libav is the ffmpeg fork, and I think what you mean here is simply "ffmpeg". I suggest: Users who want to use ffmpeg rather than libav where that is possible instead need to specify USE=-libav explicitly. > Please also note that some packages support only one of the two > implementations. An attempt to install one of those packages will result > in blockers unless the user changes the global USE=libav state. This isn't completely accurate.. It's enough to change USE=libav for the affected packages. I'm afraid I can't offer a wording suggestion on this one. :\ //Peter pgpiCJjAfgZR1.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Review: USE=libav news item
El sáb, 24-01-2015 a las 12:06 +0100, Michał Górny escribió: [...] > Sorry, ulm just corrected me it's 44 chars :D. Maybe without 'usage'. > "Manage ffmpeg/libav conflict with USE=libav" ;)
Re: [gentoo-dev] Review: USE=libav news item
Dnia 2015-01-24, o godz. 12:01:39 Pacho Ramos napisał(a): > El sáb, 24-01-2015 a las 11:20 +0100, Michał Górny escribió: > > Dnia 2015-01-24, o godz. 11:07:34 > > Pacho Ramos napisał(a): > > > > > El sáb, 24-01-2015 a las 00:39 +0100, Michał Górny escribió: > > > > Title: USE=libav introduction > > > > > > As people could get blockers on upcoming "emerge -avuDN world" I would > > > add some "hint" to the news item to suggest that one will help to solve > > > that blockers. Maybe something like "USE=libav introduction to manage > > > ffmpeg/libav selection and dependency conflicts" > > > > > > Or something else to point people to that news item in case they get the > > > ugly blockers :/ > > > > Yeah, title is hard. Plus we have 55-char limit, I think. > > "USE=libav usage to manage ffmpeg/libav conflicts" > > It doesn't look too nice to me but I don't have any better for now with > that limit of characters :( Sorry, ulm just corrected me it's 44 chars :D. Maybe without 'usage'. -- Best regards, Michał Górny pgpswskGJYgjV.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Review: USE=libav news item
El sáb, 24-01-2015 a las 11:20 +0100, Michał Górny escribió: > Dnia 2015-01-24, o godz. 11:07:34 > Pacho Ramos napisał(a): > > > El sáb, 24-01-2015 a las 00:39 +0100, Michał Górny escribió: > > > Title: USE=libav introduction > > > > As people could get blockers on upcoming "emerge -avuDN world" I would > > add some "hint" to the news item to suggest that one will help to solve > > that blockers. Maybe something like "USE=libav introduction to manage > > ffmpeg/libav selection and dependency conflicts" > > > > Or something else to point people to that news item in case they get the > > ugly blockers :/ > > Yeah, title is hard. Plus we have 55-char limit, I think. "USE=libav usage to manage ffmpeg/libav conflicts" It doesn't look too nice to me but I don't have any better for now with that limit of characters :(
Re: [gentoo-dev] Review: USE=libav news item
Dnia 2015-01-24, o godz. 11:07:34 Pacho Ramos napisał(a): > El sáb, 24-01-2015 a las 00:39 +0100, Michał Górny escribió: > > Title: USE=libav introduction > > As people could get blockers on upcoming "emerge -avuDN world" I would > add some "hint" to the news item to suggest that one will help to solve > that blockers. Maybe something like "USE=libav introduction to manage > ffmpeg/libav selection and dependency conflicts" > > Or something else to point people to that news item in case they get the > ugly blockers :/ Yeah, title is hard. Plus we have 55-char limit, I think. > > The current USE=ffmpeg will maintain its role of enabling optional > > support for ffmpeg or a compatible implementation (libav) in a > > package. > > However, whenever appropriate additional USE=libav will be introduced > > to > > control the preference of libav over ffmpeg. > > Have you think in adding a "libav" global use description and update > "ffmpeg" one to explain this behavior? Otherwise new people not seeing > this news item in some months or years will need to figure out by > themselves that this USE if a bit "special". Will be done when the news item is ready to be committed. And I've updated USE=ffmpeg yesterday because it already means 'ffmpeg or libav'. > > Users who currently use libav (the Gentoo default) do not have to > > perform any action since USE=libav is enabled by default. > > Where is libav USE and package set as default over ffmpeg? I haven't > found that in profiles/ dir :/ (or is it going to be done when > implementing this?) Right now in virtual/ffmpeg. The flag update will be committed along with the news item. -- Best regards, Michał Górny pgp2cRByaEi1N.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Review: USE=libav news item
El sáb, 24-01-2015 a las 00:39 +0100, Michał Górny escribió: > Title: USE=libav introduction As people could get blockers on upcoming "emerge -avuDN world" I would add some "hint" to the news item to suggest that one will help to solve that blockers. Maybe something like "USE=libav introduction to manage ffmpeg/libav selection and dependency conflicts" Or something else to point people to that news item in case they get the ugly blockers :/ > The current USE=ffmpeg will maintain its role of enabling optional > support for ffmpeg or a compatible implementation (libav) in a > package. > However, whenever appropriate additional USE=libav will be introduced > to > control the preference of libav over ffmpeg. Have you think in adding a "libav" global use description and update "ffmpeg" one to explain this behavior? Otherwise new people not seeing this news item in some months or years will need to figure out by themselves that this USE if a bit "special". > > Users who currently use libav (the Gentoo default) do not have to > perform any action since USE=libav is enabled by default. Where is libav USE and package set as default over ffmpeg? I haven't found that in profiles/ dir :/ (or is it going to be done when implementing this?) Thanks
[gentoo-dev] Review: USE=libav news item
Hi, Attaching the news item for planned USE=libav introduction. The emphasis on letting users know that they may need to set USE=-libav to get their systems back in working condition. I hope that we've finally agreed on going for variant 1. I was trying to come up with a hybrid possibly-friendly variant but any variant that assumes that more than one flag can enable ffmpeg/libav support is pretty much borked because second-level reverse dependencies need to be able to somehow depend on dev-foo/bar:=[ffmpeg]. -- Best regards, Michał Górny Title: USE=libav introduction Author: MichaÅ Górny Content-Type: text/plain Posted: 2015-01-yy Revision: 1 News-Item-Format: 1.0 Display-If-Installed: media-video/ffmpeg Display-If-Installed: media-video/libav The support for automatic choice between ffmpeg and libav is going to be deprecated in favor of explicit choice via USE flags. This change aims to solve multiple repeating issues, including Portage undesirably wanting to replace one package with the other, subslot upgrade issues and some of the hard-to-understand blocker issues. The current USE=ffmpeg will maintain its role of enabling optional support for ffmpeg or a compatible implementation (libav) in a package. However, whenever appropriate additional USE=libav will be introduced to control the preference of libav over ffmpeg. Users who currently use libav (the Gentoo default) do not have to perform any action since USE=libav is enabled by default. It should be noted that those users will need to enable USE=ffmpeg on packages with optional libav support as well. Users who want to use the ffmpeg fork instead need to specify USE=-libav explicitly. Please also note that some packages support only one of the two implementations. An attempt to install one of those packages will result in blockers unless the user changes the global USE=libav state. The most notable example of such package is media-video/mplayer which relies on deprecated APIs available only in ffmpeg. media-video/mplayer2 or media-video/mpv may be used as a more modern replacement. pgpcN53T2O2e5.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature
