Re: Official way to do rolling update (Was: Re: [gentoo-dev] Releng breakage with respect to move from dev-python/python-exec to dev-lang/python-exec)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 11/03/2013 10:15 PM, yac wrote: On Sun, 03 Nov 2013 11:02:31 +0200 Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote: [snip] Afaik there is no official way to update gentoo, is there? It's always been emerge -avuND world [snip] Is this documented annywhere? I have a hard time finding it. I can see it mentioned eg. in man emerge in -c option but that's not good enough. Even if it is documented, I think it would be very helpfull to have such a way implemented as kind of option to emerge like `emerge --standard-ugrade` that would just alias to -uaNDv or possibly leverage sets like `emerge @upgrade` You could emulate this yourself by setting up an environment variable to pass to emerge, or use an alias like I do: alias sysupdate='emerge -avuDN --with-bdeps=y @world' (Note: I should probably extend this to accept $1 args, in case I want to add `-t` or something) If you wanted something to cover more bases, you could make a script to do the above in addition to revdep-rebuild, python-updater, etc-update, and so on. Given the power and flexibility of portage/emerge and the extremely broad variety of needs that Gentoo meets, I believe it would be somewhat wasted work to add the option when users are already expected to read manpages and the Handbook. Perhaps -avuND should be made more obvious in a place or two in the documentation as a sort of compromise. Just my two cents, ~Daniel -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJSd1/TAAoJEJUrb08JgYgH364H/AqgN1bSxltry7kZbAWqT7hb CtNuCNKv5cChmUuq8YmEmdq1B8fJK6YQ0OieNt19MHQsOe9GWml1lMqfXzzmV63w GgsIxIs5QjNtfIYeDUVqJpxzmNcFRndJjp7AEgFiiujtl42p5OQGJfJVjAf197tR DPju9kZMbO62KyUD7pn5xc6T6RBW8xzsniRaBXAR3C3bLaJtFVHO7Dtk8ki6DELf ES+vszWdMFCP6GiOULuHSkTnsnrPAEhEHdHcRDSTHOcpMlTx4qEO43dK1f1FkOGx oXIVvgB8LNP2DgBmWeqK63UBP/01zl4XuKjHFtHJpWJluE6z1PaspF216HP7esc= =XaI0 -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [gentoo-dev] Releng breakage with respect to move from dev-python/python-exec to dev-lang/python-exec
Am Samstag, 2. November 2013, 16:03:30 schrieb Michał Górny: Dnia 2013-11-02, o godz. 14:51:26 Tom Wijsman tom...@gentoo.org napisał(a): On Sat, 02 Nov 2013 09:16:45 -0400 Anthony G. Basile bluen...@gentoo.org wrote: This is a followup to a discussion on IRC yesterday regarding breakage that's occurring to catalyst builds as a result of the recent move from dev-python/python-exec to dev-lang/python-exec. This has been happening to users as well, for example: http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-973998.html http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-974412.html From what I heard, most of people get this working through a plain: emerge -Du @world If someone is really reluctant to world updates, it is enough to upgrade dev-python/python-exec to 1.*: emerge -1v dev-python/python-exec I tried the world upgrade (yes, with --deep and with --with-bdeps y also) to no avail. emerge -1av --nodeps $(qdepends -q -N -C -Q python-exec) just wanted to rebuild app-portage/smart-live-rebuild - needless to say this didn't solve anything. Even unmerging python-exec didn't help. The blocker output was the following: = Conflict: 1 block !!! Multiple package instances within a single package slot have been pulled !!! into the dependency graph, resulting in a slot conflict: dev-lang/python-exec:0 (dev-lang/python-exec-0.::gentoo, ebuild scheduled for merge) pulled in by dev-lang/python-exec:0[python_targets_jython2_5(-)?, python_targets_jython2_7(-)?, python_targets_pypy2_0(-)?, python_targets_python3_2(-)?, python_targets_python3_3(-)?, python_targets_python2_6(-)?, python_targets_python2_7(-)?, - python_single_target_jython2_5(-), -python_single_target_jython2_7(-), - python_single_target_pypy2_0(-), -python_single_target_python3_2(-), - python_single_target_python3_3(-), -python_single_target_python2_6(-), - python_single_target_python2_7(-)] required by (dev-python/python- exec-1.1::gentoo, ebuild scheduled for merge) (dev-lang/python-exec-0.3.1::gentoo, ebuild scheduled for merge) pulled in by (no parents that aren't satisfied by other packages in this slot) !!! Enabling --newuse and --update might solve this conflict. !!! If not, it might help emerge to give a more specific suggestion. The following keyword changes are necessary to proceed: (see package.accept_keywords in the portage(5) man page for more details) # required by dev-python/PyQt4-4.10.2 # required by kde-misc/synaptiks-0.8.1-r4 # required by @kde_sed # required by @selected # required by @world (argument) =dev-lang/python-exec-0. ** = PyQt4 and synaptiks were only the messengers, btw. dev-lang/python-exec-0. has the Targets pypy2_0 and python3_3 which dev- lang/python-exec-0.3.1 does not have. But both dev-python/python-exec-1.1 and dev-python/python-exec-1.2 want a dev-lang/python-exec:0 with the same target setting. Btw. Why does dev-python/python-exec:2 has a dependency on dev-python/python- exec:0 ? Cheers Sven signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-dev] Releng breakage with respect to move from dev-python/python-exec to dev-lang/python-exec
Am Montag, 4. November 2013, 10:01:18 schrieb Sven Eden: Btw. Why does dev-python/python-exec:2 has a dependency on dev-python/python- exec:0 ? Sorry, I meant: Why does dev-python/python-exec:2 has a dependency on dev- lang/python- exec:0 ? of course. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: Official way to do rolling update (Was: Re: [gentoo-dev] Releng breakage with respect to move from dev-python/python-exec to dev-lang/python-exec)
On Mon, 4 Nov 2013 05:15:18 +0100
yac y...@gentoo.org wrote:
On Sun, 03 Nov 2013 11:02:31 +0200
Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote:
[snip]
Afaik there is no official way to update gentoo, is there?
It's always been emerge -avuND world
[snip]
Is this documented annywhere? I have a hard time finding it. I can see
it mentioned eg. in man emerge in -c option but that's not good
enough.
Yeah, we do...
http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/handbook/handbook-x86.xml?part=2chap=1#doc_chap3_sect5
So, we're not really trying to solve a problem here; yet we can improve
the situation so people don't have to manually retype the same chain of
commands everytime or rewrite their own shell alias or function.
Even if it is documented, I think it would be very helpfull to have
such a way implemented as kind of option to emerge like `emerge
--standard-ugrade` that would just alias to -uaNDv or possibly
leverage sets like `emerge @upgrade`
Yeah, I think everyone has implemented their own kind of alternative:
eupdate()
{
emerge -uDN @system @world
dispatch-conf
etc-update
emerge -uDN @system @world
emerge -c (
eclean-dist -d
eclean-pkg -d
emerge @preserved-rebuild
)
}
Others have worked together and put it into a handy tool:
http://weaver.gentooexperimental.org/update.html
It would indeed be nice to join efforts and have something that does to
updating what genkernel does to kernels, then get that into the
Portage tree and suggest it as an alternative to doing it manually.
--
With kind regards,
Tom Wijsman (TomWij)
Gentoo Developer
E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org
GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D
GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D
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Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Releng breakage with respect to move from dev-python/python-exec to dev-lang/python-exec
Dnia 2013-11-04, o godz. 10:01:18 Sven Eden sven.e...@gmx.de napisał(a): PyQt4 and synaptiks were only the messengers, btw. dev-lang/python-exec-0. has the Targets pypy2_0 and python3_3 which dev- lang/python-exec-0.3.1 does not have. But both dev-python/python-exec-1.1 and dev-python/python-exec-1.2 want a dev-lang/python-exec:0 with the same target setting. Did you play with package.accept_keywords? This looks like another attempt at trying to unmask flags through changing keywords on packages... Btw. Why does dev-python/python-exec:2 has a dependency on dev-python/python- exec:0 ? To avoid mistakenly depcleaning it too early, with old packages that depended on dev-python/python-exec (with no slot). -- Best regards, Michał Górny signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Releng breakage with respect to move from dev-python/python-exec to dev-lang/python-exec
Am Montag, 4. November 2013, 12:55:45 schrieben Sie: Dnia 2013-11-04, o godz. 10:01:18 Sven Eden sven.e...@gmx.de napisał(a): PyQt4 and synaptiks were only the messengers, btw. dev-lang/python-exec-0. has the Targets pypy2_0 and python3_3 which dev- lang/python-exec-0.3.1 does not have. But both dev-python/python-exec-1.1 and dev-python/python-exec-1.2 want a dev-lang/python-exec:0 with the same target setting. Did you play with package.accept_keywords? This looks like another attempt at trying to unmask flags through changing keywords on packages... No. $ wc -l /etc/portage/package.accept_keywords 0 /etc/portage/package.accept_keywords But you brought me on the right track, thank you very much! I had an entry dev-lang/python-exec -python_targets_python3_3 In /etc/portage/profile/package.use.mask which was needed to be able to install media-gfx/blender. It's been a while, I do not even remember why this was necessary... Sorry for the fuss! Btw. Why does dev-python/python-exec:2 has a dependency on dev-python/python- exec:0 ? To avoid mistakenly depcleaning it too early, with old packages that depended on dev-python/python-exec (with no slot). Ah, okay. Thank you very much for the clarification! signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [IDEA] Enumerate solutions for blockers, to avoid tedious manual work. (was: Re: [gentoo-dev] Releng breakage with respect to move from dev-python/python-exec to dev-lang/python-exec)
On Sunday 03 November 2013 13:10:57 Tom Wijsman wrote: Let's say I have the blocker: dev-python/python-exec-1 is blocking dev-lang/python-exec-0.3.1 We could have it additionally say something like: To resolve this blocker, you can run one of the following commands: emerge -1 '=dev-python/python-exec-1' If portage can do that, what exactly is keeping it from resolving the situation fully automatically? If it reliably knows what to emerge to get unstuck, it sounds like it would only be a trivial step to actually add this information to the dependency resolver. -- Ruud
Re: [IDEA] Enumerate solutions for blockers, to avoid tedious manual work. (was: Re: [gentoo-dev] Releng breakage with respect to move from dev-python/python-exec to dev-lang/python-exec)
On Mon, 4 Nov 2013 21:00:16 +0100 Ruud Koolen redliz...@gentoo.org wrote: On Sunday 03 November 2013 13:10:57 Tom Wijsman wrote: Let's say I have the blocker: dev-python/python-exec-1 is blocking dev-lang/python-exec-0.3.1 We could have it additionally say something like: To resolve this blocker, you can run one of the following commands: emerge -1 '=dev-python/python-exec-1' If portage can do that, what exactly is keeping it from resolving the situation fully automatically? Fully automatic blocker resolution leads to Portage silently uninstalling bash. If it reliably knows what to emerge to get unstuck, it sounds like it would only be a trivial step to actually add this information to the dependency resolver. If you want it to be reliable, you need to give the resolver lots more information, and you need to make sure developers provide that information correctly. Such a scheme can certainly be made to work: http://exherbo.org/docs/exheres-for-smarties.html#annotations -- Ciaran McCreesh signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Releng breakage with respect to move from dev-python/python-exec to dev-lang/python-exec
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 I do not believe we have discovered any useful pattern, other than that is seems to happen more frequently with people who do not run full world updates. I don't think that running a world update should be valid solution to solve blocking issues. At work, we have some servers with pretty ancient package-sets because with newer versions third party apps are broken. I bump parts of the systems where it's neccessary and leave the rest alone. As a result i have to deal with all kinds of strange blockers or blockers which i haven't seen for years. I'm strongly against this, but it is how it is. So i have to totally agree with mgorny on I was considering writing a news item for it but we discussed it on IRC and decided that users are really expected to be able to handle themselves, especially wrt to: 1. using 'emerge -Du @world' to upgrade their systems, 2. reading the blocker output to see that it states 'dev-python/python-exec-1' - which suggests: what if I upgrade to 1? Gentoo isn't a click-and-play distribution. I totally prefer automatic blocker resolution (as nearly all blockers can nowadays), but if something can't be solved automatically, everyone should be able to fix this manually. As long as it doesn't happen every week, i don't think that it's such a big thing. Autobuilds break, gentoo can't be installed, the distro dies. I know, sounds like I'm making something out of nothing but every time people look at the stages and notice they are months out of date we find another blog post announcing how gentoo is dead. I totally understand your point, but if i throw gentoo python-exec blocker into google, the second hit is this thread and the first post has the solution. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJSdgEuAAoJEKCEBkJ3xQHtPH0H/0jZYUgYW1RB2LhSVM67dm+4 5Y76A5APck+cEnDcFBH7S5CQe93yeGwGWmgzBas8A3mvgI80d/IR1x/1iAVjZ9mW zjtC3gNGjkrqo8ciIOZUIQY4+iA+8XDtTezYGBdGn2H+LZGoqjycwT05Vf8+R06D CnlL9wyIVaY6VoA0QTSCez0EBd6Pnf7SxVwQHUwI/wt1fi4/hu8NkjFMC6QxLNQh oBCtI3P/akHrBs8GdZwaXqFTkGRdLUEF0BNljJS4TSg7mum3ZcoU2WgRj8DYL8Ty /wQX9JERjYb6hU5F6aXrJglUpJ5DKE7KESI6oDOK7DmxORMfndke1i8AKlXaKV8= =Dzg9 -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [gentoo-dev] Releng breakage with respect to move from dev-python/python-exec to dev-lang/python-exec
On 02/11/2013 17:03, Michał Górny wrote: I was considering writing a news item for it but we discussed it on IRC and decided that users are really expected to be able to handle themselves, especially wrt to: 1. using 'emerge -Du @world' to upgrade their systems, 2. reading the blocker output to see that it states 'dev-python/python-exec-1' - which suggests: what if I upgrade to 1? Sadly, it's somewhat common for (newish) users to not know what to do with that. Blocker output can be quite daunting in the beginning, especially if it's in the middle of 20 other things portage is also updating. It's not easy to parse this stuff; I've been using gentoo for what feels like forever and I still haven't managed to hard-wire my head to read blockers like an idiom. I have to study it and usually end up reading the affected ebuild directly. The basic problem is that there's a lot of information to convey re a blocker, but to new users it all just looks like noise. One set of questions that were never answered and probably do deserve some kind of notification: 1. What exactly is python-exec anyway? 2. Why are there two, in dev-python/ and dev-lang/ ? 3. One has a version of -1, which is *highly* unusual, what is that exactly? 1 more than -? 4. There is some kind of migration going on between an old and new python-exec, but I can't understand it using only standard portage tools. An advance notice was probably warranted in this case, not to avoid bugs, but just to alert folk that something is coming down the wire and a short description of what it's trying to achieve. Most folks are naturally suspicious of anything that alters their python setup. -- Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com
Re: [gentoo-dev] Releng breakage with respect to move from dev-python/python-exec to dev-lang/python-exec
On 03/11/2013 01:45, yac wrote: On Sat, 02 Nov 2013 19:19:21 -0400 Anthony G. Basile bluen...@gentoo.org wrote: On 11/02/2013 06:09 PM, yac wrote: I don't know how this releng stuff works. I bet there is lot of devs who don't. This is why you should announce risking commits. Because you may not know what it will cause, but others will. If I don't know in the first place, how do I know it's risky? Assessing risk is somewhat intuitive and relies heavily on experience. python-exec changes python wrapper scripts, emerge is coded in python. You have the makings of a circular dep right there and alarms bells should already be going off in your head. With risk, you almost always already DO have more information than at first appears. Learn to trust the little voice in your head, when it pipes up rather be careful and double check. Afaik there is no official way to update gentoo, is there? It's always been emerge -avuND world I personally got used to -uaNDv and I don't even know what exactly is the difference and it's implications between that and just -uD the difference is -N, it's in man emerge -- Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com
Re: [gentoo-dev] Releng breakage with respect to move from dev-python/python-exec to dev-lang/python-exec
On 3 November 2013 17:02, Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote: On 03/11/2013 01:45, yac wrote: Afaik there is no official way to update gentoo, is there? It's always been emerge -avuND world I personally got used to -uaNDv and I don't even know what exactly is the difference and it's implications between that and just -uD the difference is -N, it's in man emerge We really should change this recommendation to --changed-use instead of -N. But we also need a short option for that. -- Cheers, Ben | yngwin Gentoo developer
Re: [gentoo-dev] Releng breakage with respect to move from dev-python/python-exec to dev-lang/python-exec
On Sun, 03 Nov 2013 11:02:31 +0200 Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote: On 03/11/2013 01:45, yac wrote: On Sat, 02 Nov 2013 19:19:21 -0400 Anthony G. Basile bluen...@gentoo.org wrote: On 11/02/2013 06:09 PM, yac wrote: I don't know how this releng stuff works. I bet there is lot of devs who don't. This is why you should announce risking commits. Because you may not know what it will cause, but others will. If I don't know in the first place, how do I know it's risky? Assessing risk is somewhat intuitive and relies heavily on experience. python-exec changes python wrapper scripts, emerge is coded in python. You have the makings of a circular dep right there and alarms bells should already be going off in your head. With risk, you almost always already DO have more information than at first appears. Learn to trust the little voice in your head, when it pipes up rather be careful and double check. Afaik there is no official way to update gentoo, is there? It's always been emerge -avuND world I personally got used to -uaNDv and I don't even know what exactly is the difference and it's implications between that and just -uD the difference is -N, it's in man emerge I can read man pages, I know what -N stands for, but I can't say I understand it with it's implications, as the exact behaviour depends on the state of tree at last emerge update and the state the portage tree is currently, which again depends on policies applied to the packages involved in the system and that's pretty non-trivial thing. -- Jan Matějka| Gentoo Developer https://gentoo.org | Gentoo Linux GPG: A33E F5BC A9F6 DAFD 2021 6FB6 3EBF D45B EEB6 CA8B signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Releng breakage with respect to move from dev-python/python-exec to dev-lang/python-exec
On Sun, 03 Nov 2013 10:53:13 +0200 Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote: On 02/11/2013 17:03, Michał Górny wrote: I was considering writing a news item for it but we discussed it on IRC and decided that users are really expected to be able to handle themselves, especially wrt to: 1. using 'emerge -Du @world' to upgrade their systems, I got a blocker on one system even with -uaNDv world btw, is there a difference betwen world and @world or is just new syntax? 2. reading the blocker output to see that it states 'dev-python/python-exec-1' - which suggests: what if I upgrade to 1? Sadly, it's somewhat common for (newish) users to not know what to do with that. Blocker output can be quite daunting in the beginning, especially if it's in the middle of 20 other things portage is also updating. It's not easy to parse this stuff; I've been using gentoo for what feels like forever and I still haven't managed to hard-wire my head to read blockers like an idiom. I have to study it and usually end up reading the affected ebuild directly. +1 I always have to think hard to get which blocks which and which I want. Especialy in this case with -1 and - The basic problem is that there's a lot of information to convey re a blocker, but to new users it all just looks like noise. One set of questions that were never answered and probably do deserve some kind of notification: 1. What exactly is python-exec anyway? python-exec is the thingie that makes the python thingies install libs and executables with different names/paths as per python major.minor so they are available for all the required versions. 2. Why are there two, in dev-python/ and dev-lang/ ? 3. One has a version of -1, which is *highly* unusual, what is that exactly? 1 more than -? 4. There is some kind of migration going on between an old and new python-exec, but I can't understand it using only standard portage tools. +1 I agree this change was poorly communicated to the users. An advance notice was probably warranted in this case, not to avoid bugs, but just to alert folk that something is coming down the wire and a short description of what it's trying to achieve. Most folks are naturally suspicious of anything that alters their python setup. -- Jan Matějka| Gentoo Developer https://gentoo.org | Gentoo Linux GPG: A33E F5BC A9F6 DAFD 2021 6FB6 3EBF D45B EEB6 CA8B signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Releng breakage with respect to move from dev-python/python-exec to dev-lang/python-exec
Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com writes: One set of questions that were never answered and probably do deserve some kind of notification: 1. What exactly is python-exec anyway? 2. Why are there two, in dev-python/ and dev-lang/ ? 3. One has a version of -1, which is *highly* unusual, what is that exactly? 1 more than -? 4. There is some kind of migration going on between an old and new python-exec, but I can't understand it using only standard portage tools. I can resonate with these questions. I bet it's common for people outside the python herd.
Re: [gentoo-dev] Releng breakage with respect to move from dev-python/python-exec to dev-lang/python-exec
Dnia 2013-11-03, o godz. 10:53:13 Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com napisał(a): One set of questions that were never answered and probably do deserve some kind of notification: I can help you with these. However, I don't know on how much of it a random user cares. 1. What exactly is python-exec anyway? It's the wrapper script that chooses the proper version of Python scripts for the currently selected Python version. Say, when you install 'foomatic' for p2.6, 2.7, 3.2 and 3.3, /usr/bin/foomatic is linked to python-exec and it determines which one to run. 2. Why are there two, in dev-python/ and dev-lang/ ? The intent is that the one in dev-python/ was not slotted and the one in dev-lang/ is. This seems like the only sane way to support both slots without rewriting all the existing deps (which doesn't seem to work) or risking breaking the system. 3. One has a version of -1, which is *highly* unusual, what is that exactly? 1 more than -? It is a plain virtual/compat/meta-package. It is a meaningless version that is supposed to be larger than anything that was earlier in dev-python/python-exec and it only pulls in dev-lang/python-exec. 4. There is some kind of migration going on between an old and new python-exec, but I can't understand it using only standard portage tools. Yes. The goal is that everything will dep on dev-lang/python-exec:=. However, we need to somehow keep things that deped on dev-python/python-exec in the past working. -- Best regards, Michał Górny signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Releng breakage with respect to move from dev-python/python-exec to dev-lang/python-exec
On 03/11/2013 12:53, Michał Górny wrote: Dnia 2013-11-03, o godz. 10:53:13 Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com napisał(a): One set of questions that were never answered and probably do deserve some kind of notification: I can help you with these. However, I don't know on how much of it a random user cares. 1. What exactly is python-exec anyway? It's the wrapper script that chooses the proper version of Python scripts for the currently selected Python version. Say, when you install 'foomatic' for p2.6, 2.7, 3.2 and 3.3, /usr/bin/foomatic is linked to python-exec and it determines which one to run. 2. Why are there two, in dev-python/ and dev-lang/ ? The intent is that the one in dev-python/ was not slotted and the one in dev-lang/ is. This seems like the only sane way to support both slots without rewriting all the existing deps (which doesn't seem to work) or risking breaking the system. 3. One has a version of -1, which is *highly* unusual, what is that exactly? 1 more than -? It is a plain virtual/compat/meta-package. It is a meaningless version that is supposed to be larger than anything that was earlier in dev-python/python-exec and it only pulls in dev-lang/python-exec. 4. There is some kind of migration going on between an old and new python-exec, but I can't understand it using only standard portage tools. Yes. The goal is that everything will dep on dev-lang/python-exec:=. However, we need to somehow keep things that deped on dev-python/python-exec in the past working. I didn't make completely clear that the questions were mostly rhetorical - I since figured out the answers for myself (I'm used to cat'ing ebuilds almost routinely to find stuff out). But thanks for taking the time to answer, I'll probably repost to gentoo-user and that will no doubt help many more people. It makes a good example - we both made what I believe is the same mistake. I underestimated that you would understand what I was actually asking, and the python team underestimated how much information to convey ahead of time. I do appreciate hugely all the effort Gentoo devs put into the project so this isn't a criticism at all, it's more data points of experience put out there to help devs make judgement calls for the future. -- Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com
Re: [gentoo-dev] Releng breakage with respect to move from dev-python/python-exec to dev-lang/python-exec
On 11/03/2013 04:02 AM, Alan McKinnon wrote: On 03/11/2013 01:45, yac wrote: On Sat, 02 Nov 2013 19:19:21 -0400 Anthony G. Basile bluen...@gentoo.org wrote: On 11/02/2013 06:09 PM, yac wrote: I don't know how this releng stuff works. I bet there is lot of devs who don't. This is why you should announce risking commits. Because you may not know what it will cause, but others will. If I don't know in the first place, how do I know it's risky? Assessing risk is somewhat intuitive and relies heavily on experience. python-exec changes python wrapper scripts, emerge is coded in python. You have the makings of a circular dep right there and alarms bells should already be going off in your head. Correct. One needs to be particularly careful with python + portage. Careful here means taking the alarm bells seriously and should include uncommon but critical environments like catalyst. With risk, you almost always already DO have more information than at first appears. Learn to trust the little voice in your head, when it pipes up rather be careful and double check. Afaik there is no official way to update gentoo, is there? It's always been emerge -avuND world Keep in mind that catalyst runs do something along the lines of: ROOT=/tmp/stage1root emerge -e @system which is why (I think) we are hitting issue there and not in a regular setup. I didn't diagnose to the bottom though. Getting back to my original post: I want to make the python team aware of the needs of releng and exercise care in the future when making a commit where alarm bells go off. An email to releng@ or gentoo-dev@ asking will this mess up your stuff would have been sufficient as we then could have tested. I don't know if any deeper lesson can be learned. I don't expect anyone to have super cow powers and forsee every eventuality. Don't be afraid to use the community. I personally got used to -uaNDv and I don't even know what exactly is the difference and it's implications between that and just -uD the difference is -N, it's in man emerge -- Anthony G. Basile, Ph.D. Gentoo Linux Developer [Hardened] E-Mail: bluen...@gentoo.org GnuPG FP : 1FED FAD9 D82C 52A5 3BAB DC79 9384 FA6E F52D 4BBA GnuPG ID : F52D4BBA
Re: [gentoo-dev] Releng breakage with respect to move from dev-python/python-exec to dev-lang/python-exec
On Sun, Nov 3, 2013 at 11:01 AM, Anthony G. Basile bluen...@gentoo.org wrote: Getting back to my original post: I want to make the python team aware of the needs of releng and exercise care in the future when making a commit where alarm bells go off. An email to releng@ or gentoo-dev@ asking will this mess up your stuff would have been sufficient as we then could have tested. I don't know if any deeper lesson can be learned. I don't expect anyone to have super cow powers and forsee every eventuality. Don't be afraid to use the community. I think we were rushing to come up with a solution for a problem that really only affected ~arch, and in the process we caused some problems for a few stable or mixed-arch users. It was rushed because we started getting bugs and IRC pings with words like QA violation about the original /var/db/pkg sed hack we had employed. I think a little patience by all parties would have helped. As you say, if we had taken the time to ping some people to test it, the situation may have been avoided.
Official way to do rolling update (Was: Re: [gentoo-dev] Releng breakage with respect to move from dev-python/python-exec to dev-lang/python-exec)
On Sun, 03 Nov 2013 11:02:31 +0200 Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote: [snip] Afaik there is no official way to update gentoo, is there? It's always been emerge -avuND world [snip] Is this documented annywhere? I have a hard time finding it. I can see it mentioned eg. in man emerge in -c option but that's not good enough. Even if it is documented, I think it would be very helpfull to have such a way implemented as kind of option to emerge like `emerge --standard-ugrade` that would just alias to -uaNDv or possibly leverage sets like `emerge @upgrade` -- Jan Matějka| Gentoo Developer https://gentoo.org | Gentoo Linux GPG: A33E F5BC A9F6 DAFD 2021 6FB6 3EBF D45B EEB6 CA8B signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Official way to do rolling update (Was: Re: [gentoo-dev] Releng breakage with respect to move from dev-python/python-exec to dev-lang/python-exec)
On Sun, 03 Nov 2013 11:02:31 +0200 Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote: [snip] Afaik there is no official way to update gentoo, is there? It's always been emerge -avuND world [snip] Is this documented annywhere? I have a hard time finding it. I can see it mentioned eg. in man emerge in -c option but that's not good enough. Even if it is documented, I think it would be very helpfull to have such a way implemented as kind of option to emerge like `emerge --standard-ugrade` that would just alias to -uaNDv or possibly leverage sets like `emerge @upgrade` -- Jan Matějka| Gentoo Developer https://gentoo.org | Gentoo Linux GPG: A33E F5BC A9F6 DAFD 2021 6FB6 3EBF D45B EEB6 CA8B signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Official way to do rolling update (Was: Re: [gentoo-dev] Releng breakage with respect to move from dev-python/python-exec to dev-lang/python-exec)
Please do not reply to this thread. I've resent the mail without the thread context header. On Mon, 4 Nov 2013 01:59:19 +0100 yac y...@gentoo.org wrote: On Sun, 03 Nov 2013 11:02:31 +0200 Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote: [snip] Afaik there is no official way to update gentoo, is there? It's always been emerge -avuND world [snip] Is this documented annywhere? I have a hard time finding it. I can see it mentioned eg. in man emerge in -c option but that's not good enough. Even if it is documented, I think it would be very helpfull to have such a way implemented as kind of option to emerge like `emerge --standard-ugrade` that would just alias to -uaNDv or possibly leverage sets like `emerge @upgrade` -- Jan Matějka| Gentoo Developer https://gentoo.org | Gentoo Linux GPG: A33E F5BC A9F6 DAFD 2021 6FB6 3EBF D45B EEB6 CA8B signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Releng breakage with respect to move from dev-python/python-exec to dev-lang/python-exec
On Sat, 02 Nov 2013 09:16:45 -0400 Anthony G. Basile bluen...@gentoo.org wrote: This is a followup to a discussion on IRC yesterday regarding breakage that's occurring to catalyst builds as a result of the recent move from dev-python/python-exec to dev-lang/python-exec. This has been happening to users as well, for example: http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-973998.html http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-974412.html To move forward and get this resolved, some questions: 1. Has this been resolved for users? Do they just need to sync? 2. If not resolved for users, what is the best temporary workaround? 3. Are you able to fix this? Do you need help to fix this? 4. Depending on the nature of the fix: Would a news item be needed? From what I heard so far this isn't reproducible by the committer; so, is anyone else being able to reproduce this? I didn't experience this either; so, maybe this is only reproducible on a stable system? -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Releng breakage with respect to move from dev-python/python-exec to dev-lang/python-exec
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 02.11.2013 14:51, Tom Wijsman wrote: From what I heard so far this isn't reproducible by the committer; so, is anyone else being able to reproduce this? I didn't experience this either; so, maybe this is only reproducible on a stable system? This one hit me too on several systems: up-to-date arch/~arch mixed system and stable-only systems. I haven't looked into the block that deep but removed the old one and emerged the new one. At work i have several systems now with the block - if someone needs some information, ping me on IRC or via mail. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJSdQpDAAoJEKCEBkJ3xQHt58gH/18Ulp6IILZ+Y/h6vqOnVICh dMe1+GMb4tRtph5LzdqTNnziRVQvOclspPfSealgW1VJozgJvYdHaRg/vyHBMarI aMPN4FIB4xw3PcXa/pbdemVU5Mzf+jHnlIz6HRdARxFp/zg3a7DyppPhJy0gObuh 5Ah9phraKJLgdmVqDZnG+9vEgn4+2PiLd7SAadR4nY+muL+X+HExxr64xmI4t7Jk FwwyjHgDz558Dd1jZ34oilYXrtDpVcLtCp67S091e/L3lq5vdneF/pxjAkG/bTVH V9VEQKlJ6p0HFpueB57bdLEmhNLSPPwzoAjF1E24Tc+A95PwYBp35G8WW3CoPU0= =5pRK -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [gentoo-dev] Releng breakage with respect to move from dev-python/python-exec to dev-lang/python-exec
Dnia 2013-11-02, o godz. 14:51:26 Tom Wijsman tom...@gentoo.org napisał(a): On Sat, 02 Nov 2013 09:16:45 -0400 Anthony G. Basile bluen...@gentoo.org wrote: This is a followup to a discussion on IRC yesterday regarding breakage that's occurring to catalyst builds as a result of the recent move from dev-python/python-exec to dev-lang/python-exec. This has been happening to users as well, for example: http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-973998.html http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-974412.html To move forward and get this resolved, some questions: 1. Has this been resolved for users? Do they just need to sync? 2. If not resolved for users, what is the best temporary workaround? 3. Are you able to fix this? Do you need help to fix this? 4. Depending on the nature of the fix: Would a news item be needed? From what I heard, most of people get this working through a plain: emerge -Du @world If someone is really reluctant to world updates, it is enough to upgrade dev-python/python-exec to 1.*: emerge -1v dev-python/python-exec I was considering writing a news item for it but we discussed it on IRC and decided that users are really expected to be able to handle themselves, especially wrt to: 1. using 'emerge -Du @world' to upgrade their systems, 2. reading the blocker output to see that it states 'dev-python/python-exec-1' - which suggests: what if I upgrade to 1? If you believe that a news item would be helpful, I'm happy to write it. Just please make sure that we're all in agreement over the method of handling the issue. Additionally, the news item would state how to get rid of the old deps. This will presumably involve something like: emerge -1v $( qdepends -NCQ dev-python/python-exec ) Please note that 'equery d' from gentoolkit is currently broken due to some random magic inside portage and doesn't list all the packages correctly. However, for the latter it would be probably preferred to wait with it till python-exec:2 is stable on all arches to avoid rebuilding packages twice in a short time. -- Best regards, Michał Górny signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Releng breakage with respect to move from dev-python/python-exec to dev-lang/python-exec
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 11/02/2013 11:03 AM, Michał Górny wrote: Dnia 2013-11-02, o godz. 14:51:26 Tom Wijsman tom...@gentoo.org napisał(a): On Sat, 02 Nov 2013 09:16:45 -0400 Anthony G. Basile bluen...@gentoo.org wrote: This is a followup to a discussion on IRC yesterday regarding breakage that's occurring to catalyst builds as a result of the recent move from dev-python/python-exec to dev-lang/python-exec. This has been happening to users as well, for example: http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-973998.html http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-974412.html To move forward and get this resolved, some questions: 1. Has this been resolved for users? Do they just need to sync? 2. If not resolved for users, what is the best temporary workaround? 3. Are you able to fix this? Do you need help to fix this? 4. Depending on the nature of the fix: Would a news item be needed? From what I heard, most of people get this working through a plain: emerge -Du @world If someone is really reluctant to world updates, it is enough to upgrade dev-python/python-exec to 1.*: emerge -1v dev-python/python-exec I was considering writing a news item for it but we discussed it on IRC and decided that users are really expected to be able to handle themselves, especially wrt to: 1. using 'emerge -Du @world' to upgrade their systems, 2. reading the blocker output to see that it states 'dev-python/python-exec-1' - which suggests: what if I upgrade to 1? If you believe that a news item would be helpful, I'm happy to write it. Just please make sure that we're all in agreement over the method of handling the issue. A news item isn't enough for breaking autobuilds. If we can't find a way to do this properly so portage knows how to upgrade then it is being done WRONG. Autobuilds break, gentoo can't be installed, the distro dies. I know, sounds like I'm making something out of nothing but every time people look at the stages and notice they are months out of date we find another blog post announcing how gentoo is dead. Honestly, if I knew a way to fix this I would have already made any changes needed to fix it. Please fix this, because if you don't, eventually I'll find a way and I doubt you will like it. - -Zero Additionally, the news item would state how to get rid of the old deps. This will presumably involve something like: emerge -1v $( qdepends -NCQ dev-python/python-exec ) Please note that 'equery d' from gentoolkit is currently broken due to some random magic inside portage and doesn't list all the packages correctly. However, for the latter it would be probably preferred to wait with it till python-exec:2 is stable on all arches to avoid rebuilding packages twice in a short time. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJSdVCJAAoJEKXdFCfdEflKLiwP/AjlCVUKeHo7wI8FO6W/VE4u 2Pv2VqaRGQ3KDn/yvHfClfXib8Eu4/KE1cc8kUoP4vspRQLiCz3qMqtYqFy9Y3DF fPYbBL5w4Z1V/sAho9pd3f2XHAOYwM/G1cD2GfbEHY5XdR4rk8w3AzK8cTCO5gL4 DmbBS1t/G3fLoNBud4pCpM+QCD1edwHWSptjWS2lQN9hNI9VwOBrXmuBKLPHR05F JyLWiiTbHPD6y/UquVa9uqdcHRJ5uTAyu9CZPu4CDrC3sJuFYuZxYZc2s4VjqyLo YKXhp5RJjFJT23ZNhM1eAUCH2jxiJM8JoTRC1gYY1mKuWqL3gLojPDjTqS5ukya6 C8mZ9dqEtqEisJuUQPBkuhfKfClmk0sDCTwrtEJCe4day7gX9w5uPZO1oFrJ+/8Y 6M0chyaU33XaZBIRLMo/KaCg0MccW3Oob2AVo8pesrPrmQwPnXnGvps8rlbrkpv+ lFdx1yh/phW2oWq3yVHf4LlPgrajDrgLzDgcVXYKByG/Nd2pKkkbzq/JfAwtfzck fpufYDbWF3j8ErVGjzWWQLR4NOzf01NC5Q/U4dCVR+Yy4+a0joSuTB6fz2+eFjz8 6NCr7i+lYPcrnnlvf97XBvXhbsf0NIhwiJtMkLi72LKgI+Wn3D/Xc3H62KqjsXDf Hc3RqAPCSO/GAqf5hqVl =VeiN -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [gentoo-dev] Releng breakage with respect to move from dev-python/python-exec to dev-lang/python-exec
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Sat, 02 Nov 2013 15:20:41 -0400 Rick \Zero_Chaos\ Farina zeroch...@gentoo.org wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 11/02/2013 11:03 AM, Michał Górny wrote: Dnia 2013-11-02, o godz. 14:51:26 Tom Wijsman tom...@gentoo.org napisał(a): On Sat, 02 Nov 2013 09:16:45 -0400 Anthony G. Basile bluen...@gentoo.org wrote: This is a followup to a discussion on IRC yesterday regarding breakage that's occurring to catalyst builds as a result of the recent move from dev-python/python-exec to dev-lang/python-exec. This has been happening to users as well, for example: http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-973998.html http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-974412.html To move forward and get this resolved, some questions: 1. Has this been resolved for users? Do they just need to sync? 2. If not resolved for users, what is the best temporary workaround? 3. Are you able to fix this? Do you need help to fix this? 4. Depending on the nature of the fix: Would a news item be needed? From what I heard, most of people get this working through a plain: emerge -Du @world If someone is really reluctant to world updates, it is enough to upgrade dev-python/python-exec to 1.*: emerge -1v dev-python/python-exec I was considering writing a news item for it but we discussed it on IRC and decided that users are really expected to be able to handle themselves, especially wrt to: 1. using 'emerge -Du @world' to upgrade their systems, 2. reading the blocker output to see that it states 'dev-python/python-exec-1' - which suggests: what if I upgrade to 1? If you believe that a news item would be helpful, I'm happy to write it. Just please make sure that we're all in agreement over the method of handling the issue. A news item isn't enough for breaking autobuilds. If we can't find a way to do this properly so portage knows how to upgrade then it is being done WRONG. Autobuilds break, gentoo can't be installed, the distro dies. I know, sounds like I'm making something out of nothing but every time people look at the stages and notice they are months out of date we find another blog post announcing how gentoo is dead. Honestly, if I knew a way to fix this I would have already made any changes needed to fix it. Please fix this, because if you don't, eventually I'll find a way and I doubt you will like it. I guess you can run a basic QA like that the image boots and gets the network up with openQA (or using the same method) at least to detect such breakage. - -Zero Additionally, the news item would state how to get rid of the old deps. This will presumably involve something like: emerge -1v $( qdepends -NCQ dev-python/python-exec ) Please note that 'equery d' from gentoolkit is currently broken due to some random magic inside portage and doesn't list all the packages correctly. However, for the latter it would be probably preferred to wait with it till python-exec:2 is stable on all arches to avoid rebuilding packages twice in a short time. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJSdVCJAAoJEKXdFCfdEflKLiwP/AjlCVUKeHo7wI8FO6W/VE4u 2Pv2VqaRGQ3KDn/yvHfClfXib8Eu4/KE1cc8kUoP4vspRQLiCz3qMqtYqFy9Y3DF fPYbBL5w4Z1V/sAho9pd3f2XHAOYwM/G1cD2GfbEHY5XdR4rk8w3AzK8cTCO5gL4 DmbBS1t/G3fLoNBud4pCpM+QCD1edwHWSptjWS2lQN9hNI9VwOBrXmuBKLPHR05F JyLWiiTbHPD6y/UquVa9uqdcHRJ5uTAyu9CZPu4CDrC3sJuFYuZxYZc2s4VjqyLo YKXhp5RJjFJT23ZNhM1eAUCH2jxiJM8JoTRC1gYY1mKuWqL3gLojPDjTqS5ukya6 C8mZ9dqEtqEisJuUQPBkuhfKfClmk0sDCTwrtEJCe4day7gX9w5uPZO1oFrJ+/8Y 6M0chyaU33XaZBIRLMo/KaCg0MccW3Oob2AVo8pesrPrmQwPnXnGvps8rlbrkpv+ lFdx1yh/phW2oWq3yVHf4LlPgrajDrgLzDgcVXYKByG/Nd2pKkkbzq/JfAwtfzck fpufYDbWF3j8ErVGjzWWQLR4NOzf01NC5Q/U4dCVR+Yy4+a0joSuTB6fz2+eFjz8 6NCr7i+lYPcrnnlvf97XBvXhbsf0NIhwiJtMkLi72LKgI+Wn3D/Xc3H62KqjsXDf Hc3RqAPCSO/GAqf5hqVl =VeiN -END PGP SIGNATURE- - -- Jan Matějka| Gentoo Developer https://gentoo.org | Gentoo Linux GPG: F97A36A1 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.20 (GNU/Linux) iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJSdWIUAAoJEIN+7RD5ejahSUgH/1/DJdVBC/4FbLY0iqctdeRr 0nrkTMYM9CSIw9qwakLtxsEHaSStJCOYeOfZ6iMlvpq0mteYBOiTRe69fV37jy/X 72KovFje6Wj1PQwbF1K9jQ47Vw09gaM00HdFz1F6n7pNNHJyujKZaiGN4+jeiBCg vR/sssus8BJOGY0e0kS6gyBH93GIyZVRodgT7s6JBiOp+1+wZukEQSU+WUNjCTHQ 1RZ93zZ8/5WtIaZDphWxMeoRiw4B0lUJE2QCB63ZCbUBc+kg6ysN++t4f9zvHW1r viQ8TYk9+L6gpACTmSzHfhTKExUgcXvakQjbFldb7AJwULQXz8DbxDHZbV1lWFw= =P+Bi -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [gentoo-dev] Releng breakage with respect to move from dev-python/python-exec to dev-lang/python-exec
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 11/02/2013 04:35 PM, yac wrote: On Sat, 02 Nov 2013 15:20:41 -0400 Rick \Zero_Chaos\ Farina zeroch...@gentoo.org wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 11/02/2013 11:03 AM, Michał Górny wrote: Dnia 2013-11-02, o godz. 14:51:26 Tom Wijsman tom...@gentoo.org napisał(a): On Sat, 02 Nov 2013 09:16:45 -0400 Anthony G. Basile bluen...@gentoo.org wrote: This is a followup to a discussion on IRC yesterday regarding breakage that's occurring to catalyst builds as a result of the recent move from dev-python/python-exec to dev-lang/python-exec. This has been happening to users as well, for example: http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-973998.html http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-974412.html To move forward and get this resolved, some questions: 1. Has this been resolved for users? Do they just need to sync? 2. If not resolved for users, what is the best temporary workaround? 3. Are you able to fix this? Do you need help to fix this? 4. Depending on the nature of the fix: Would a news item be needed? From what I heard, most of people get this working through a plain: emerge -Du @world If someone is really reluctant to world updates, it is enough to upgrade dev-python/python-exec to 1.*: emerge -1v dev-python/python-exec I was considering writing a news item for it but we discussed it on IRC and decided that users are really expected to be able to handle themselves, especially wrt to: 1. using 'emerge -Du @world' to upgrade their systems, 2. reading the blocker output to see that it states 'dev-python/python-exec-1' - which suggests: what if I upgrade to 1? If you believe that a news item would be helpful, I'm happy to write it. Just please make sure that we're all in agreement over the method of handling the issue. A news item isn't enough for breaking autobuilds. If we can't find a way to do this properly so portage knows how to upgrade then it is being done WRONG. Autobuilds break, gentoo can't be installed, the distro dies. I know, sounds like I'm making something out of nothing but every time people look at the stages and notice they are months out of date we find another blog post announcing how gentoo is dead. Honestly, if I knew a way to fix this I would have already made any changes needed to fix it. Please fix this, because if you don't, eventually I'll find a way and I doubt you will like it. I guess you can run a basic QA like that the image boots and gets the network up with openQA (or using the same method) at least to detect such breakage. I think everyone involved knows that manual intervention is needed to resolve this dep. I'm sure that things were tested before they were commited, which leads me to believe that the commiter didn't care that manual intervention is required. Sadly, we at releng do. I am actively seeking a resolution for this, let's see who commits it first. - -Zero - -Zero Additionally, the news item would state how to get rid of the old deps. This will presumably involve something like: emerge -1v $( qdepends -NCQ dev-python/python-exec ) Please note that 'equery d' from gentoolkit is currently broken due to some random magic inside portage and doesn't list all the packages correctly. However, for the latter it would be probably preferred to wait with it till python-exec:2 is stable on all arches to avoid rebuilding packages twice in a short time. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJSdWcjAAoJEKXdFCfdEflK2vYP/Rf2I3SSAm0ZwxJRqYl2Lv+y TrYscC0ekWn3Z0+FwUz9rhfhWJwoCjCEv7zsxq0UQiQu+xK+DmqXcgw38zYGb6Wv bPvq8JMpcSa4tz1wW+wbepS31fXq/WlV1E03BRAbUrM1bhxyS2qia8S0AkTyN4xt UlleZb8Ep0NrlX1JAx/EgLCBmA61xj5ONdIPlyni5RCtnFZIPnMRTVhlFARaWXQJ coFztk/ke7B43p2Q6wGR6zHRNdnH59gHg6FwDxXsys/AajSDFrR9Id5GoAgOiqPW 9eqbwyR50Csd3H3UKdmit7Tdn80TSt4qWs/NXSrvG+38TVm1U6hY6rVSSHHuUXba b3QqT/jx7GzUa3GtKp7QD5ZcKk/F2d7z/oOeGUodGNJ8P+5cQHHb96z0vKR6D2lU DPpH8v5EWAY01PLW/1240mTljT6/30GPNxEgR1oj2GxOUR+gUnVXFARcorP4R5Ek qv2jLp1SZgQDAht8RfvR1ngXIpQmNyUvYCKQuxu3fwhANxu0T1DqLfO0shxg9FnZ HrOzlZvsmOtf4dPjJ9kuWPhbRD10VPqy8dzis1jzb9ucSgCP96y1UzbSjuLI183B gsHfJSERKNZ9E1qWEL5OZ/qv7Q7+zsgG7XTo8/12AQUFIIkA8l7qEvZ0AiOXNxwQ rHEvm115H5ic0gQ8bG6I =Y0pJ -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [gentoo-dev] Releng breakage with respect to move from dev-python/python-exec to dev-lang/python-exec
On Sat, Nov 2, 2013 at 4:57 PM, Rick Zero_Chaos Farina zeroch...@gentoo.org wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 11/02/2013 04:35 PM, yac wrote: On Sat, 02 Nov 2013 15:20:41 -0400 Rick \Zero_Chaos\ Farina zeroch...@gentoo.org wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 11/02/2013 11:03 AM, Michał Górny wrote: Dnia 2013-11-02, o godz. 14:51:26 Tom Wijsman tom...@gentoo.org napisał(a): On Sat, 02 Nov 2013 09:16:45 -0400 Anthony G. Basile bluen...@gentoo.org wrote: This is a followup to a discussion on IRC yesterday regarding breakage that's occurring to catalyst builds as a result of the recent move from dev-python/python-exec to dev-lang/python-exec. This has been happening to users as well, for example: http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-973998.html http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-974412.html To move forward and get this resolved, some questions: 1. Has this been resolved for users? Do they just need to sync? 2. If not resolved for users, what is the best temporary workaround? 3. Are you able to fix this? Do you need help to fix this? 4. Depending on the nature of the fix: Would a news item be needed? From what I heard, most of people get this working through a plain: emerge -Du @world If someone is really reluctant to world updates, it is enough to upgrade dev-python/python-exec to 1.*: emerge -1v dev-python/python-exec I was considering writing a news item for it but we discussed it on IRC and decided that users are really expected to be able to handle themselves, especially wrt to: 1. using 'emerge -Du @world' to upgrade their systems, 2. reading the blocker output to see that it states 'dev-python/python-exec-1' - which suggests: what if I upgrade to 1? If you believe that a news item would be helpful, I'm happy to write it. Just please make sure that we're all in agreement over the method of handling the issue. A news item isn't enough for breaking autobuilds. If we can't find a way to do this properly so portage knows how to upgrade then it is being done WRONG. Autobuilds break, gentoo can't be installed, the distro dies. I know, sounds like I'm making something out of nothing but every time people look at the stages and notice they are months out of date we find another blog post announcing how gentoo is dead. Honestly, if I knew a way to fix this I would have already made any changes needed to fix it. Please fix this, because if you don't, eventually I'll find a way and I doubt you will like it. I guess you can run a basic QA like that the image boots and gets the network up with openQA (or using the same method) at least to detect such breakage. I think everyone involved knows that manual intervention is needed to resolve this dep. I'm sure that things were tested before they were commited, which leads me to believe that the commiter didn't care that manual intervention is required. Sadly, we at releng do. I am actively seeking a resolution for this, let's see who commits it first. In most cases, manual intervention is not required, and portage does the right thing when you run emerge -uD world. If you actually look at the deps in the tree, it really SHOULD work, and the fact that it can be resolved manually indicates that we are running into some portage weirdness. After it was committed, we starting getting a few reports of cases where it does not work without some manual intervention (including releng). I do not believe we have discovered any useful pattern, other than that is seems to happen more frequently with people who do not run full world updates.
Re: [gentoo-dev] Releng breakage with respect to move from dev-python/python-exec to dev-lang/python-exec
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 On Sat, 02 Nov 2013 16:57:07 -0400 Rick \Zero_Chaos\ Farina zeroch...@gentoo.org wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 11/02/2013 04:35 PM, yac wrote: On Sat, 02 Nov 2013 15:20:41 -0400 Rick \Zero_Chaos\ Farina zeroch...@gentoo.org wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 11/02/2013 11:03 AM, Michał Górny wrote: Dnia 2013-11-02, o godz. 14:51:26 Tom Wijsman tom...@gentoo.org napisał(a): On Sat, 02 Nov 2013 09:16:45 -0400 Anthony G. Basile bluen...@gentoo.org wrote: This is a followup to a discussion on IRC yesterday regarding breakage that's occurring to catalyst builds as a result of the recent move from dev-python/python-exec to dev-lang/python-exec. This has been happening to users as well, for example: http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-973998.html http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-974412.html To move forward and get this resolved, some questions: 1. Has this been resolved for users? Do they just need to sync? 2. If not resolved for users, what is the best temporary workaround? 3. Are you able to fix this? Do you need help to fix this? 4. Depending on the nature of the fix: Would a news item be needed? From what I heard, most of people get this working through a plain: emerge -Du @world If someone is really reluctant to world updates, it is enough to upgrade dev-python/python-exec to 1.*: emerge -1v dev-python/python-exec I was considering writing a news item for it but we discussed it on IRC and decided that users are really expected to be able to handle themselves, especially wrt to: 1. using 'emerge -Du @world' to upgrade their systems, 2. reading the blocker output to see that it states 'dev-python/python-exec-1' - which suggests: what if I upgrade to 1? If you believe that a news item would be helpful, I'm happy to write it. Just please make sure that we're all in agreement over the method of handling the issue. A news item isn't enough for breaking autobuilds. If we can't find a way to do this properly so portage knows how to upgrade then it is being done WRONG. Autobuilds break, gentoo can't be installed, the distro dies. I know, sounds like I'm making something out of nothing but every time people look at the stages and notice they are months out of date we find another blog post announcing how gentoo is dead. Honestly, if I knew a way to fix this I would have already made any changes needed to fix it. Please fix this, because if you don't, eventually I'll find a way and I doubt you will like it. I guess you can run a basic QA like that the image boots and gets the network up with openQA (or using the same method) at least to detect such breakage. I think everyone involved knows that manual intervention is needed to resolve this dep. I'm sure that things were tested before they were commited, which leads me to believe that the commiter didn't care that manual intervention is required. Sadly, we at releng do. I am actively seeking a resolution for this, let's see who commits it first. I don't know how this releng stuff works. I bet there is lot of devs who don't. Also I think your response is also completely unrelated to my suggestion. My suggestion is about acting proactively instead of reactively - automatically testing eg. the image of livecd iso that gets built to verify eg. it is bootable and network working to at least detect such breakage and do not publish broken iso instead of hoping for the best and eventualy getting bug reports. - -Zero - -Zero Additionally, the news item would state how to get rid of the old deps. This will presumably involve something like: emerge -1v $( qdepends -NCQ dev-python/python-exec ) Please note that 'equery d' from gentoolkit is currently broken due to some random magic inside portage and doesn't list all the packages correctly. However, for the latter it would be probably preferred to wait with it till python-exec:2 is stable on all arches to avoid rebuilding packages twice in a short time. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJSdWcjAAoJEKXdFCfdEflK2vYP/Rf2I3SSAm0ZwxJRqYl2Lv+y TrYscC0ekWn3Z0+FwUz9rhfhWJwoCjCEv7zsxq0UQiQu+xK+DmqXcgw38zYGb6Wv bPvq8JMpcSa4tz1wW+wbepS31fXq/WlV1E03BRAbUrM1bhxyS2qia8S0AkTyN4xt UlleZb8Ep0NrlX1JAx/EgLCBmA61xj5ONdIPlyni5RCtnFZIPnMRTVhlFARaWXQJ coFztk/ke7B43p2Q6wGR6zHRNdnH59gHg6FwDxXsys/AajSDFrR9Id5GoAgOiqPW 9eqbwyR50Csd3H3UKdmit7Tdn80TSt4qWs/NXSrvG+38TVm1U6hY6rVSSHHuUXba b3QqT/jx7GzUa3GtKp7QD5ZcKk/F2d7z/oOeGUodGNJ8P+5cQHHb96z0vKR6D2lU DPpH8v5EWAY01PLW/1240mTljT6/30GPNxEgR1oj2GxOUR+gUnVXFARcorP4R5Ek qv2jLp1SZgQDAht8RfvR1ngXIpQmNyUvYCKQuxu3fwhANxu0T1DqLfO0shxg9FnZ
Re: [gentoo-dev] Releng breakage with respect to move from dev-python/python-exec to dev-lang/python-exec
On 11/02/2013 06:09 PM, yac wrote: I don't know how this releng stuff works. I bet there is lot of devs who don't. This is why you should announce risking commits. Because you may not know what it will cause, but others will. -- Anthony G. Basile, Ph.D. Gentoo Linux Developer [Hardened] E-Mail: bluen...@gentoo.org GnuPG FP : 1FED FAD9 D82C 52A5 3BAB DC79 9384 FA6E F52D 4BBA GnuPG ID : F52D4BBA
Re: [gentoo-dev] Releng breakage with respect to move from dev-python/python-exec to dev-lang/python-exec
On Sat, 02 Nov 2013 19:19:21 -0400 Anthony G. Basile bluen...@gentoo.org wrote: On 11/02/2013 06:09 PM, yac wrote: I don't know how this releng stuff works. I bet there is lot of devs who don't. This is why you should announce risking commits. Because you may not know what it will cause, but others will. If I don't know in the first place, how do I know it's risky? Afaik there is no official way to update gentoo, is there? I personally got used to -uaNDv and I don't even know what exactly is the difference and it's implications between that and just -uD -- Jan Matějka| Gentoo Developer https://gentoo.org | Gentoo Linux GPG: F97A36A1 signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Releng breakage with respect to move from dev-python/python-exec to dev-lang/python-exec
On 11/02/2013 07:45 PM, yac wrote: On Sat, 02 Nov 2013 19:19:21 -0400 Anthony G. Basile bluen...@gentoo.org wrote: On 11/02/2013 06:09 PM, yac wrote: I don't know how this releng stuff works. I bet there is lot of devs who don't. This is why you should announce risking commits. Because you may not know what it will cause, but others will. If I don't know in the first place, how do I know it's risky? Afaik there is no official way to update gentoo, is there? I personally got used to -uaNDv and I don't even know what exactly is the difference and it's implications between that and just -uD Adding something to the tree with all keywords set stable is risky. Take a look at the original commit. I understand why mgorny did it, but it should have been discussed. -- Anthony G. Basile, Ph.D. Gentoo Linux Developer [Hardened] E-Mail: bluen...@gentoo.org GnuPG FP : 1FED FAD9 D82C 52A5 3BAB DC79 9384 FA6E F52D 4BBA GnuPG ID : F52D4BBA
Re: [gentoo-dev] Releng breakage with respect to move from dev-python/python-exec to dev-lang/python-exec
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Sat, 02 Nov 2013 15:20:41 -0400 Rick \Zero_Chaos\ Farina zeroch...@gentoo.org wrote: A news item isn't enough for breaking autobuilds. If we can't find a way to do this properly so portage knows how to upgrade then it is being done WRONG. Realistically, we're not going to get decent resolutions of these kinds of thing until we have EAPI support for specifying in a package mangler readable format what a dependency means and why it is there, rather than just what does or does not satisfy it. - -- Ciaran McCreesh -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlJ1ksoACgkQ96zL6DUtXhGRTwCginOc2+dI8zEbNMHQezyE/jmU 2JoAoI3uilx5TCKa9SRssjkEbYWUA+Pw =/Snz -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [gentoo-dev] Releng breakage with respect to move from dev-python/python-exec to dev-lang/python-exec
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 11/02/2013 06:09 PM, yac wrote: On Sat, 02 Nov 2013 16:57:07 -0400 Rick \Zero_Chaos\ Farina zeroch...@gentoo.org wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 11/02/2013 04:35 PM, yac wrote: On Sat, 02 Nov 2013 15:20:41 -0400 Rick \Zero_Chaos\ Farina zeroch...@gentoo.org wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 11/02/2013 11:03 AM, Michał Górny wrote: Dnia 2013-11-02, o godz. 14:51:26 Tom Wijsman tom...@gentoo.org napisał(a): On Sat, 02 Nov 2013 09:16:45 -0400 Anthony G. Basile bluen...@gentoo.org wrote: This is a followup to a discussion on IRC yesterday regarding breakage that's occurring to catalyst builds as a result of the recent move from dev-python/python-exec to dev-lang/python-exec. This has been happening to users as well, for example: http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-973998.html http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-974412.html To move forward and get this resolved, some questions: 1. Has this been resolved for users? Do they just need to sync? 2. If not resolved for users, what is the best temporary workaround? 3. Are you able to fix this? Do you need help to fix this? 4. Depending on the nature of the fix: Would a news item be needed? From what I heard, most of people get this working through a plain: emerge -Du @world If someone is really reluctant to world updates, it is enough to upgrade dev-python/python-exec to 1.*: emerge -1v dev-python/python-exec I was considering writing a news item for it but we discussed it on IRC and decided that users are really expected to be able to handle themselves, especially wrt to: 1. using 'emerge -Du @world' to upgrade their systems, 2. reading the blocker output to see that it states 'dev-python/python-exec-1' - which suggests: what if I upgrade to 1? If you believe that a news item would be helpful, I'm happy to write it. Just please make sure that we're all in agreement over the method of handling the issue. A news item isn't enough for breaking autobuilds. If we can't find a way to do this properly so portage knows how to upgrade then it is being done WRONG. Autobuilds break, gentoo can't be installed, the distro dies. I know, sounds like I'm making something out of nothing but every time people look at the stages and notice they are months out of date we find another blog post announcing how gentoo is dead. Honestly, if I knew a way to fix this I would have already made any changes needed to fix it. Please fix this, because if you don't, eventually I'll find a way and I doubt you will like it. I guess you can run a basic QA like that the image boots and gets the network up with openQA (or using the same method) at least to detect such breakage. I think everyone involved knows that manual intervention is needed to resolve this dep. I'm sure that things were tested before they were commited, which leads me to believe that the commiter didn't care that manual intervention is required. Sadly, we at releng do. I am actively seeking a resolution for this, let's see who commits it first. I don't know how this releng stuff works. I bet there is lot of devs who don't. Also I think your response is also completely unrelated to my suggestion. My suggestion is about acting proactively instead of reactively - automatically testing eg. the image of livecd iso that gets built to verify eg. it is bootable and network working to at least detect such breakage and do not publish broken iso instead of hoping for the best and eventualy getting bug reports. The isos are built at least daily by one or more members of releng. Build tests are automatic, sadly functionality test after the fact are not. If you are volunteering to help get some tests up and running then I'll be happy to dedicate my time to assisting. I build 4000 packages a day across 4 profiles and 2 arches and I'm adding more all the time. I would love to have some functionality tests but I lack the skill to implement from scratch. - -Zero - -Zero - -Zero Additionally, the news item would state how to get rid of the old deps. This will presumably involve something like: emerge -1v $( qdepends -NCQ dev-python/python-exec ) Please note that 'equery d' from gentoolkit is currently broken due to some random magic inside portage and doesn't list all the packages correctly. However, for the latter it would be probably preferred to wait with it till python-exec:2 is stable on all arches to avoid rebuilding packages twice in a short time. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJSdaxZAAoJEKXdFCfdEflKTMIP/3nxCCAEINL1zO6sSLM1eNd+ rWlfABU8+jURD5OUmwiabw5nZ0/GFQC4X7ETLhHnTj9iI82mytbrjxy6S8UFMx7j 33oyT7As/9XPOEGOu5BHUaZzVIsrwrRZ9KtJOSMhH8mDPe8QfhcAa6J0xwcpF78I
