Re: [gentoo-user] Looking up... Connecting... Waiting... Transferring
I noticed that if I'm doing a lot of clicking around there is pretty much no time spent with either of those, but if I work on something and then come back to the browser after a bit, Firefox can really spend some time there. Could be anything. Maybe Firefox is caching stuff , maybe it isn't. Maybe your machine swaps a lot and it take awhile to swap back in. Sounds like you are worry needlessly about a few seconds difference. A few seconds can easily be the difference between a customer spending enough time on my site to find something they want to buy, and not. When I click on a search results link, I'll hit stop and try another link if the page takes a few seconds too long to load. It just seems silly to work on speeding up my server's execution time, and even make sacrifices for greater speed, until I can get a page to serve in 1 second instead of 4, and then realize I'm sometimes waiting as long as 10 seconds before my code is even executed. - Grant -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Looking up... Connecting... Waiting... Transferring
On Mon, 21 Feb 2005, Grant wrote: A few seconds can easily be the difference between a customer spending enough time on my site to find something they want to buy, and not. When I click on a search results link, I'll hit stop and try another link if the page takes a few seconds too long to load. That might be true for YOU but not necessarily for everyone else. It just seems silly to work on speeding up my server's execution time, and even make sacrifices for greater speed, until I can get a page to serve in 1 second instead of 4, and then realize I'm sometimes waiting as long as 10 seconds before my code is even executed. To really say oh its a server issue you need to test from different places through different Internet access methods. Dont assume it is slow just because it is from YOUR computer. -- -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Looking up... Connecting... Waiting... Transferring
A few seconds can easily be the difference between a customer spending enough time on my site to find something they want to buy, and not. When I click on a search results link, I'll hit stop and try another link if the page takes a few seconds too long to load. That might be true for YOU but not necessarily for everyone else. If it's true for me, it's almost definitely true for others, and that's a problem. It doesn't need to be true for everyone else to be a problem. It just seems silly to work on speeding up my server's execution time, and even make sacrifices for greater speed, until I can get a page to serve in 1 second instead of 4, and then realize I'm sometimes waiting as long as 10 seconds before my code is even executed. To really say oh its a server issue you need to test from different places through different Internet access methods. Dont assume it is slow just because it is from YOUR computer. I'm not necessarily saying it's a server problem. I'm trying to figure out if it's a fixable problem. - Grant -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Looking up... Connecting... Waiting... Transferring
On Mon, Feb 21, 2005 at 12:37:44PM -0800, Grant wrote: That might be true for YOU but not necessarily for everyone else. If it's true for me, it's almost definitely true for others, and that's a problem. It doesn't need to be true for everyone else to be a problem. Mind giving us a URL so we can DOS^H^H^Hhelp figure it out for you? -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Looking up... Connecting... Waiting... Transferring
That might be true for YOU but not necessarily for everyone else. If it's true for me, it's almost definitely true for others, and that's a problem. It doesn't need to be true for everyone else to be a problem. Mind giving us a URL so we can DOS^H^H^Hhelp figure it out for you? No thanks Mr. Dos, but that's a really nice offer. - Grant -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Looking up... Connecting... Waiting... Transferring
Grant wrote: I've been optimizing my site's performance by tuning the server-side code and watching how it affects the amount of time Firefox reports as Waiting. It seems like the Transferring time would be optimized by reducing the size of the HTML to download. What about Looking up and Connecting? I noticed that if I'm doing a lot of clicking around there is pretty much no time spent with either of those, but if I work on something and then come back to the browser after a bit, Firefox can really spend some time there. I'd imagine that is apache's area. What can I do to minimize the time needed to look up and connect? I'm wondering how you're getting any sort of concrete numbers out of anything. If you're eyeballing Firefox and going by feel it's going to be hard for you see where the problem is or if there is one. If it were me, I'd do something like the following: 1. Add a time to render page into your test page. I normally see this in php pages, but assume it's not hard to do. This should give you some sort of idea of how complicated the page was to put together o the server side. 2. use curl or other command line tool to pull the page. preferably using the time command. Do this and write times to a file every 30 seconds. 3. Write a script to check server load and record it to a file every 30 secs. 4. send 10 pings or so to the server from the client and record times to a file every 30 secs When you can compare server load to time for the server to render page to time to download the page to ping times you will have interesting data. Otherwise you have no idea if it's the connection, the server or the client. I'm not sure how well most of the what I listed would work in actually implementation, but the idea of getting things put into tools that you can measure in milliseconds is never bad. kashani -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-user] Looking up... Connecting... Waiting... Transferring
I've been optimizing my site's performance by tuning the server-side code and watching how it affects the amount of time Firefox reports as Waiting. It seems like the Transferring time would be optimized by reducing the size of the HTML to download. What about Looking up and Connecting? I noticed that if I'm doing a lot of clicking around there is pretty much no time spent with either of those, but if I work on something and then come back to the browser after a bit, Firefox can really spend some time there. I'd imagine that is apache's area. What can I do to minimize the time needed to look up and connect? - Grant -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Looking up... Connecting... Waiting... Transferring
The time needed to lookup is probably spend running a DNS lookup , I doubt changes to your apache can affect this in any way. There is always a latency associated with the network ( especially on a non-LAN ) , so don't try to get it faster that light :) For example , measure the ping round-trip time to the dns and to the server. You probably can't get any faster than the sum of the two times. On Sun, 2005-02-20 at 10:03 -0800, Grant wrote: I've been optimizing my site's performance by tuning the server-side code and watching how it affects the amount of time Firefox reports as Waiting. It seems like the Transferring time would be optimized by reducing the size of the HTML to download. What about Looking up and Connecting? I noticed that if I'm doing a lot of clicking around there is pretty much no time spent with either of those, but if I work on something and then come back to the browser after a bit, Firefox can really spend some time there. I'd imagine that is apache's area. What can I do to minimize the time needed to look up and connect? - Grant -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- Ivan Yosifov. -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Looking up... Connecting... Waiting... Transferring
The time needed to lookup is probably spend running a DNS lookup , I doubt changes to your apache can affect this in any way. There is always a latency associated with the network ( especially on a non-LAN ) , so don't try to get it faster that light :) For example , measure the ping round-trip time to the dns and to the server. You probably can't get any faster than the sum of the two times. What about the fact that the DNS lookup takes much longer if I haven't clicked on anything for a little bit? Is that because of some type of DNS caching in the browser? Could this have anything to do with my site's DNS server's performance? - Grant -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Looking up... Connecting... Waiting... Transferring
It could have to with a lot of stuff. It is possible that FF has some DNS cache that gets flushed , it also almost certain ( don't trust me, my ISP has, I guess it is common :) ) that your ISP has a DNS cache and it is possible that other users queries have flushed yours. You can ask mozilla-devs and your ISP , however this won't help for users of other ISPs and other browsers :) You are tweaking the server , right ? So , place a machine as close to it as possible ( put a second lan-card in the server , and connect the two machines) , alias the server in /etc/hosts so no DNS lookup is done and benchmark this setup. I think such a setup minimizes random network factors , so a latency is almost sure to be in the server and not *OUT THERE* :) Just my 2c. On Sun, 2005-02-20 at 10:39 -0800, Grant wrote: The time needed to lookup is probably spend running a DNS lookup , I doubt changes to your apache can affect this in any way. There is always a latency associated with the network ( especially on a non-LAN ) , so don't try to get it faster that light :) For example , measure the ping round-trip time to the dns and to the server. You probably can't get any faster than the sum of the two times. What about the fact that the DNS lookup takes much longer if I haven't clicked on anything for a little bit? Is that because of some type of DNS caching in the browser? Could this have anything to do with my site's DNS server's performance? - Grant -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- Ivan Yosifov. -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Looking up... Connecting... Waiting... Transferring
On Sunday 20 February 2005 10:39, Grant wrote: The time needed to lookup is probably spend running a DNS lookup , I doubt changes to your apache can affect this in any way. There is always a latency associated with the network ( especially on a non-LAN ) , so don't try to get it faster that light :) For example , measure the ping round-trip time to the dns and to the server. You probably can't get any faster than the sum of the two times. What about the fact that the DNS lookup takes much longer if I haven't clicked on anything for a little bit? Is that because of some type of DNS caching in the browser? Probably. Could this have anything to do with my site's DNS server's performance? Probably not. -- t3h 3l3ctr0n3rd [EMAIL PROTECTED] Supermarket Deli Clerk and Student Programmer OpenPGP Key Fingerprint: 0A65 EEFA B23A F0AC E6C2 C71C BEA0 E055 BE0E EC25 pgpxS1jfZEW4i.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Looking up... Connecting... Waiting... Transferring
It could have to with a lot of stuff. It is possible that FF has some DNS cache that gets flushed , it also almost certain ( don't trust me, my ISP has, I guess it is common :) ) that your ISP has a DNS cache and it is possible that other users queries have flushed yours. You can ask mozilla-devs and your ISP , however this won't help for users of other ISPs and other browsers :) You are tweaking the server , right ? So , place a machine as close to it as possible ( put a second lan-card in the server , and connect the two machines) , alias the server in /etc/hosts so no DNS lookup is done and benchmark this setup. I think such a setup minimizes random network factors , so a latency is almost sure to be in the server and not *OUT THERE* :) Just my 2c. The server is actually hosted remotely, I should have mentioned that. After a little more experimentation, both my website and my host's website have this same behavior of responding right away during a continuous Firefox browsing session, but taking a long time to look up after a break. cnn.com responds right away, even after a break. It sounds like I need to contact my host. Could this be an issue with their DNS server? - Grant -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Looking up... Connecting... Waiting... Transferring
It could have to with a lot of stuff. It is possible that FF has some DNS cache that gets flushed , it also almost certain ( don't trust me, my ISP has, I guess it is common :) ) that your ISP has a DNS cache and it is possible that other users queries have flushed yours. You can ask mozilla-devs and your ISP , however this won't help for users of other ISPs and other browsers :) You are tweaking the server , right ? So , place a machine as close to it as possible ( put a second lan-card in the server , and connect the two machines) , alias the server in /etc/hosts so no DNS lookup is done and benchmark this setup. I think such a setup minimizes random network factors , so a latency is almost sure to be in the server and not *OUT THERE* :) Just my 2c. On Sun, 2005-02-20 at 10:39 -0800, Grant wrote: The time needed to lookup is probably spend running a DNS lookup , I doubt changes to your apache can affect this in any way. There is always a latency associated with the network ( especially on a non-LAN ) , so don't try to get it faster that light :) For example , measure the ping round-trip time to the dns and to the server. You probably can't get any faster than the sum of the two times. Does anyone know what the Connecting stage is? That sometimes takes a while too. - Grant -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Looking up... Connecting... Waiting... Transferring
Grant ha scritto: It could have to with a lot of stuff. It is possible that FF has some DNS cache that gets flushed , it also almost certain ( don't trust me, my ISP has, I guess it is common :) ) that your ISP has a DNS cache and it is possible that other users queries have flushed yours. You can ask mozilla-devs and your ISP , however this won't help for users of other ISPs and other browsers :) You are tweaking the server , right ? So , place a machine as close to it as possible ( put a second lan-card in the server , and connect the two machines) , alias the server in /etc/hosts so no DNS lookup is done and benchmark this setup. I think such a setup minimizes random network factors , so a latency is almost sure to be in the server and not *OUT THERE* :) Just my 2c. The server is actually hosted remotely, I should have mentioned that. After a little more experimentation, both my website and my host's website have this same behavior of responding right away during a continuous Firefox browsing session, but taking a long time to look up after a break. cnn.com responds right away, even after a break. It sounds like I need to contact my host. Could this be an issue with their DNS server? - Grant try # tracepath www.your.server # ping -c5 www.your.server while browsing and after a while. If the results are the same it's a dns problem (it's not counted in connection timings) if not there must be some keepalive stuff that make you faster when browsing. Francesco -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Looking up... Connecting... Waiting... Transferring
On Sun, 20 Feb 2005, Grant wrote: I noticed that if I'm doing a lot of clicking around there is pretty much no time spent with either of those, but if I work on something and then come back to the browser after a bit, Firefox can really spend some time there. Could be anything. Maybe Firefox is caching stuff , maybe it isn't. Maybe your machine swaps a lot and it take awhile to swap back in. Sounds like you are worry needlessly about a few seconds difference. I'd imagine that is apache's area. What can I do to minimize the time needed to look up and connect? sigh Do yourself a favor and install a caching DNS server on your machine, put nameserver 127.0.0.1 in /etc/resolv.conf and be happy with faster DNS lookups. There is probably nothing wrong with your ISP's DNS server. -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] looking for the file with my installed packages
OK, what exactly are u looking for? if you are looking for the installed packages you may install gentoolkit #emerge gentoolkit and this package will provide u qpkg #qpkg list all the packages installed #qpkg package -l list all files owned by the specified package #qpkg --help for more info ;) claudinei matos On Mon, 2004-02-09 at 17:14, Manuel Pérez López wrote: Hi! I'm looking for the installed packages file on my system. Where is it? Thanks mapelo -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
[gentoo-user] looking for the file with my installed packages
Hi! I'm looking for the installed packages file on my system. Where is it? Thanks mapelo -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] looking for the file with my installed packages
qpkg -l foo man qpkg for details. On Mon, Feb 09, 2004 at 08:14:37PM +0100, Manuel Pérez López wrote: Hi! I'm looking for the installed packages file on my system. Where is it? Thanks mapelo -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list -- -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
[gentoo-user] looking for the file with my installed packages
Hi! I'm looking for the installed packages file on my system. Where is it? Thanks mapelo -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
[gentoo-user] Looking for ...
Newbie to gentoo here. Trying to install on a system which RH8 has loading the a320raid.o and scsi_mod.o modules. This is an Adaptec x9320 hostraid controller. The bad news is that, AFAIK, the gentoo CD1 basic install kernel does not have these driver modules. Makes it really tough to install gentoo. At least I can find them. So o do these diver modules exist? o if so, where do I look for them? Help appreciated. Thanks. --- Chris Johnson |Internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Systems Administrator |Web: http://www.nmr.mgh.harvard.edu/~johnson NMR Center |Voice:617.726.0949 Mass. General Hospital |FAX: 617.726.7422 149 (2301) 13th Street |Life n, something from which nobody escapes Charlestown, MA., 02129 USA |alive. Me --- -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Looking for ...
Sorry, I don't know about those modules, but... If you have room for a new partition you can always install gentoo from your current RH8. There are instructions in the forum's Documentation tips tricks section. On Wed, 2004-01-14 at 04:56, Chris Johnson wrote: Newbie to gentoo here. Trying to install on a system which RH8 has loading the a320raid.o and scsi_mod.o modules. This is an Adaptec x9320 hostraid controller. The bad news is that, AFAIK, the gentoo CD1 basic install kernel does not have these driver modules. Makes it really tough to install gentoo. At least I can find them. So o do these diver modules exist? o if so, where do I look for them? Help appreciated. Thanks. --- Chris Johnson |Internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Systems Administrator |Web: http://www.nmr.mgh.harvard.edu/~johnson NMR Center |Voice:617.726.0949 Mass. General Hospital |FAX: 617.726.7422 149 (2301) 13th Street |Life n, something from which nobody escapes Charlestown, MA., 02129 USA |alive. Me --- -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list -- Brian [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Looking for ...
On Wed, 14 Jan 2004, Brian wrote: Sorry, I don't know about those modules, but... If you have room for a new partition you can always install gentoo from your current RH8. There are instructions in the forum's Documentation tips tricks section. I'll take a look. Not sure how much help it will be as the system disk is still that a320raid module. I wouldn't be able to boot. --- Chris Johnson |Internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Systems Administrator |Web: http://www.nmr.mgh.harvard.edu/~johnson NMR Center |Voice:617.726.0949 Mass. General Hospital |FAX: 617.726.7422 149 (2301) 13th Street |Fifty percent of all doctors graduated in the Charlestown, MA., 02129 USA |lower half of the class. Observation --- -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Looking for ...
Chris Johnson wrote: Newbie to gentoo here. Trying to install on a system which RH8 has loading the a320raid.o and scsi_mod.o modules. This is an Adaptec x9320 hostraid controller. The bad news is that, AFAIK, the gentoo CD1 basic install kernel does not have these driver modules. Makes it really tough to install gentoo. At least I can find them. The kernel 2.6 seems to have a driver for your Adaptec. Check the kernel doc in /usr/src/linux/Documentation/scsi/aic79xx.txt HTH, Peter -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Looking for ...
On Wed, 14 Jan 2004 11:05:03 -0500 (EST) Chris Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, 14 Jan 2004, Brian wrote: Sorry, I don't know about those modules, but... If you have room for a new partition you can always install gentoo from your current RH8. There are instructions in the forum's Documentation tips tricks section. I'll take a look. Not sure how much help it will be as the system disk is still that a320raid module. I wouldn't be able to boot. You will need to find out where (what patch, etc.) RH got the module you need. Then you can install using your RH system, download the appropriate patches, then make a kernel, and voila! you'll be in business. -- Collins - Denver Area Gentoo stable plus kernel 2.6.1-mm2 -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
[gentoo-user] Looking For a Software Audio Compressor..
I'm looking for a software audio compressor(NOT compression) for use in Gentoo, anybody know of one? Thanks, Kent -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
[gentoo-user] looking for help on belkin bluetooth f8t002 pcmcia card driver
I bought a belkin f8t002 bluetooth pcmcia card for my laptop neither google nor the bluez project have any help with this card when i insert it cardctl ident says: Socket 0: product info: OXSEMI, OXCB950, Rev A manfid: 0x0279, 0x0001 function: 2 (serial) PCI id: 0x1415, 0x950b /var/log/everything/current says: Nov 23 14:55:13 [cardmgr] unsupported card in socket 0 Nov 23 14:55:13 [kernel] cs: cb_alloc(bus 3): vendor 0x1415, device 0x950b Nov 23 14:55:14 [cardmgr] no product info available Nov 23 14:55:14 [cardmgr] PCI id: 0x1415, 0x950b i did a manual insmod of serial_cs bluez serial i installed all the bluez sw I have a /etc/pcmica/bluetooth.conf file but it has no listing for my card lspci WITHOUT the card inserted says: 00:00.0 Host bridge: Intel Corp. 82830 830 Chipset Host Bridge (rev 04) 00:02.0 VGA compatible controller: Intel Corp. 82830 CGC [Chipset Graphics Controller] (rev 04) 00:02.1 Display controller: Intel Corp. 82830 CGC [Chipset Graphics Controller] 00:1d.0 USB Controller: Intel Corp. 82801CA/CAM USB (Hub #1) (rev 02) 00:1d.1 USB Controller: Intel Corp. 82801CA/CAM USB (Hub #2) (rev 02) 00:1d.2 USB Controller: Intel Corp. 82801CA/CAM USB (Hub #3) (rev 02) 00:1e.0 PCI bridge: Intel Corp. 82801BAM/CAM PCI Bridge (rev 42) 00:1f.0 ISA bridge: Intel Corp. 82801CAM ISA Bridge (LPC) (rev 02) 00:1f.1 IDE interface: Intel Corp. 82801CAM IDE U100 (rev 02) 00:1f.3 SMBus: Intel Corp. 82801CA/CAM SMBus Controller (rev 02) 00:1f.5 Multimedia audio controller: Intel Corp. 82801CA/CAM AC'97 Audio Controller (rev 02) 00:1f.6 Modem: Intel Corp. 82801CA/CAM AC'97 Modem Controller (rev 02) 02:03.0 CardBus bridge: Ricoh Co Ltd RL5c475 (rev b8) 02:03.1 FireWire (IEEE 1394): Ricoh Co Ltd R5C551 IEEE 1394 Controller 02:05.0 Ethernet controller: 3Com Corporation 3c905C-TX/TX-M [Tornado] (rev 78) 02:07.0 CardBus bridge: Texas Instruments PCI1410 PC card Cardbus Controller (rev 01) lspci WITH the card INSERTED says same thing but also gives an error msg: pcilib: Cannot open /proc/bus/pci/03/00.0 Unable to read 64 bytes of configuration space. anyone with any clues for my bluez? my laptop is a dell x200 running gentoo linux
Re: [gentoo-user] looking for gentoo for dummies
As such, is there a gentoo version for dummies? Are there any plans for a more automated install script? glis.sf.net I've been testing it for a while now and the current implementation seems stable if not feature rich. =C= * Cal Evans * http://www.eicc.com * We take care of your IT, * So you can take care of your business. * * I think inside the sphere. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
[gentoo-user] looking for gentoo for dummies
Greetings all, I've tried seven or more distros in the last week. The conclusion: I am really looking for the gentoo philosophy and sophistication. I want a platform that is optimized for best practices and best tools. However, I am a newbie. As hard as I try, I am not going to be able to install for the documentation provided. As such, is there a gentoo version for dummies? Are there any plans for a more automated install script? Brian Connolly -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] looking for gentoo for dummies
However, I am a newbie. As hard as I try, I am not going to be able to install for the documentation provided. Brian, I think you don't give yourself enough credit. I'm not all that experienced in Linux, but the Gentoo install instructions really do work Give them a try. Follow them carefully and exactly and you'll most likely end up with a working machine. One warning from my experience. Maybe study the grub part before you start. It's the only thing that I've had trouble with. Good luck, Mark -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] looking for gentoo for dummies
if you tried seven distros in the last week, you're not a total beginner... if you follow the documentation, you should be OK, only don't try to go too fast, be patient while the stuff compiles, and avoid having several consoles chrooted in the gentoo install at the same time (believe me, it's not a good idea) Azhdeen -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] looking for gentoo for dummies
On Sun, 2003-11-09 at 16:07, brian connolly wrote: I've tried seven or more distros in the last week. The conclusion: I am really looking for the gentoo philosophy and sophistication. I want a platform that is optimized for best practices and best tools. However, I am a newbie. As hard as I try, I am not going to be able to install for the documentation provided. As such, is there a gentoo version for dummies? Are there any plans for a more automated install script? I don't know if it's meant to be this way, but part of this gentoo philosophy and all is to FORCE you to understand what you're doing. A more automated install script will only help you do one thing: Get Gentoo installed quickly. You won't know how to add users, set the clock, use pipe commands, and so on. With that, there are in progress install instructions that might be better than the ones currently published on Gentoo's website. I myself have minor complaints with them, mainly the way the different stageX installs and GRP installs are mixed together. I've been lucky over the years, I think. Red Hat 5 took me (2) tries. An upgrade to 5.1 as well as a few installs of Mandrake and finally Debian all succeeded on their 1st tries. With Gentoo, it took (3) tries. :-) Do you have a Linux User's group around you ?? Or a friend who's competent in Linux ?? If so, ask for help from them. Even if it's just someone to watch over your shoulder while YOU do the actual work. If someone else does it while you watch, you may as well have bought the PC with Gentoo pre-installed. IMO, you'll learn NOTHING that way. Good luck Hall -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] looking for gentoo for dummies
On Sun, 2003-11-09 at 16:31, Azhdeen wrote: if you tried seven distros in the last week, you're not a total beginner... Nothing against the original poster, but if one tries (7) distros in one week, how much time can possibly be spent with each one ?? Hall -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] looking for gentoo for dummies
On Sun, 2003-11-09 at 21:07, brian connolly wrote: Greetings all, I've tried seven or more distros in the last week. The conclusion: I am really looking for the gentoo philosophy and sophistication. I want a platform that is optimized for best practices and best tools. However, I am a newbie. As hard as I try, I am not going to be able to install for the documentation provided. As such, is there a gentoo version for dummies? Are there any plans for a more automated install script? Brian Connolly As others have suggested, you should probably force yourself to learn, but you might like to take a look at the Gentoo Linux Install Script at http://glis.sf.net. -- Tom Wesley signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: [gentoo-user] looking for gentoo for dummies
On Sunday 09 November 2003 23:31, Tom Wesley wrote: As others have suggested, you should probably force yourself to learn, but you might like to take a look at the Gentoo Linux Install Script at http://glis.sf.net. i didn't know this script existed, but my choosing Gentoo was (partly) to understand better the way Linux works, and that isn't done by using another automated installer, right ? -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] looking for gentoo for dummies
On Sun, 2003-11-09 at 22:54, Azhdeen wrote: On Sunday 09 November 2003 23:31, Tom Wesley wrote: As others have suggested, you should probably force yourself to learn, but you might like to take a look at the Gentoo Linux Install Script at http://glis.sf.net. i didn't know this script existed, but my choosing Gentoo was (partly) to understand better the way Linux works, and that isn't done by using another automated installer, right ? Depends if you read and understand how the installer does what it does or not ;-) -- Tom Wesley signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: [gentoo-user] looking for gentoo for dummies
On Sunday 09 November 2003 23:58, Tom Wesley wrote: Depends if you read and understand how the installer does what it does or not ;-) the idea with Gentoo is that I play the installer, no ? -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] looking for gentoo for dummies
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Sunday 09 November 2003 23:05, Azhdeen wrote: the idea with Gentoo is that I play the installer, no ? Nope, the idea with Gentoo is a distribution which gives you the tools to do what you want. Attached is a posting from Daniel Robbins which should clarify. - -- Mike Williams -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/rsvTInuLMrk7bIwRAmOXAJ4lDDXb5lNrKvKrPb9WvxBJtCqLywCffmf+ MTus1O0RclUu0eI99HpRWlI= =wpRP -END PGP SIGNATURE- ---BeginMessage--- I should have posted this to gentoo-dev in the first place (was posted to -core,) so here goes... On Mon, 2003-09-15 at 12:12, Sven Vermeulen wrote: Don't take this personally, but - just to make my mind clear - can't we (well, Gentoo that is) make a statement on what we want to achieve? I'll try to spell it out for you with a bit of Gentoo history. I created Gentoo because I couldn't find a Linux distribution that I liked. The one predominant thing that I experienced with Linux distributions is that the distro tools that managed the entire system -- the tools that were supposed to make everything *easier* to use -- really seemed to want a lot of attention and really got in the way of what I wanted to do. I wanted to tell *them* what I wanted to do, but they seemed more interested in telling *me* what *they* wanted me to do. So, I created Gentoo Linux, and designed Portage to be a more perfect tool than what had existed before it. To do this, I made it very flexible in allowing me to do what I wanted to do, and also tried to make it flexible to allow others to do what I thought they might want to do. If others wanted to see how a package got built, they could look at a relatively easy-to-understand ebuild file and learn from it. If they wanted to tweak how it got built, they took advantage of USE variables. If they wanted to add a package, they created a new ebuild for the tree. If they wanted to use a package, they simply emerged it and dependencies were automatically resolved. People liked the Portage concept, and Gentoo Linux grew rapidly. We have become known as a from source distribution, but the heart of the Gentoo concept is not from source. From source is an important and key aspect of Gentoo, and something that was and will continue to be necessary for Gentoo, but it is not the only issue or most fundamental issue. The most fundamental issue is designing a technology that allows us and others to do what they want to do, without restriction. To summarize the heart of Gentoo, imagine a user sitting in front of a Linux system. What does he or she want do to? The Gentoo philosophy is to allow this user to do what he or she wants to do, without getting in the way. At around the time Gentoo was born, the thing that got in the way was the lack of an easy way to build packages from source, to a user's specifications. Currently, we've done that very well, but what we haven't done very well is support pre-built packages, even though Portage has supported building binary packages almost since its inception. So we are doing that now. It's important that our tools support binary packages, because binary packages are widely used and widely in demand in the Linux community. If our tools don't support binary packages, then we can't claim that our tools are designed to allow a user to do anything he or she might want to do. If we purposely choose to exclude binary support, then we are attempting to interfere with how users might choose to approach particular problems, by instead imposing our own will or view of how they should approach a problem. And if we do not build binary packages, then we are not taking any steps to ensure that our tools actually work well with binary packages, nor are we taking steps to ensure that others can build binary packages, nor are we able to *demonstrate* that our tools work well with binary packages. Besides these philisophical reasons, there are many practical reasons to create binary packages. The Gentoo philosophy, in a paragraph, is this. Every user has work they need to do. The goal of Gentoo is to design tools and systems that allow a user to do their work pleasantly and efficiently as possible, as *they* see fit. Our tools should be a joy to use, and should help the user to appreciate the richness of the Linux and free software community, and the flexibility of free software. This is only possible when the tool is designed to reflect and transmit the will of the user, and leave the possibilities open as to the final form of the raw materials (the source code.) If the tool forces the user to do things a particular way, then the tool is working against, rather than for, the user. We have all experienced situations where tools seem to be imposing their respective wills on us. This is backwards, and contrary to the Gentoo philosophy. Put another way, the Gentoo philosophy is to create better tools. When a tool is doing its job
Re: [gentoo-user] looking for gentoo for dummies
On Mon, 2003-11-10 at 10:07, brian connolly wrote: As such, is there a gentoo version for dummies? Are there any plans for a more automated install script? Brian Connolly I know what you mean. Much of the documentation assumes you have a background in PCs and can understand what is being said. likelanguage relating to the hard drive and networking and video drivers and the kernel / module relationship. There are probably dozens of assumptions in there - obvious as the nose on your face to people who already know them. :-) Following the instructions by rote will work some of the timeif your hardware matches the assumptions in the instructions. You really have two choices: 1. Be patient. Read the doocumentation first. Flag any issues that make you think What?!...and come here and ask a related question. This will be slowbut you will get there. Patience and adequate rest will be important. :-) 2. Use another distro until you've picked up the PC and Linux skills - and come back. The risk here is that the other distro might mean you never really need to know some of this. That doens't matter unless you want to get into Linux in more detail - andhave more control. The thing I always try to remember about Linux is that it has developed the way it has in order to give guys like you and me the chance to learn how to do this stuff ourselves...and be independent from the choices others make on our behalf as the defaults. I try to honour that philosophy by learning a little more every day - or weekand slowly getting to place where I know a lot. I try to be like the drops of water eventually wearing away the stone So whichever way you go, stick with itand remember Rome wasn't built in a day. -- Steve Withers [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
[gentoo-user] Looking for a Template
I do some contract work and thus am in need of a good invoice for services template in OpenOffice, Abiword, KOffice,...etc to replace my usage of the same thing in Microsoft Word, I've searched this forum and Google for some but couldn't find any. If anybody knows where I could acquire one I would appreciate a heads up. Thanks, Kent -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Looking for a Template
since you already have payed ofr microsoft office, why not get codeweavers for $50 extra and run office on top of linux? It works great. On Thu, 2003-10-16 at 18:09, Kent Jantz wrote: I do some contract work and thus am in need of a good invoice for services template in OpenOffice, Abiword, KOffice,...etc to replace my usage of the same thing in Microsoft Word, I've searched this forum and Google for some but couldn't find any. If anybody knows where I could acquire one I would appreciate a heads up. Thanks, Kent -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] looking for wlan carbus card
On 2003.08.08 16:26, Martin Gramatke wrote: hi, I am looking for wlan 802.11b carbus card wich is supported by kernel 2.4.20 and wlan-linux-ng drivers too. Installation and stability should be as painless as possible. Could you recommend somthing, please? I just got a Linksys 802.11b card for $80(cdn) due to intel's incomplete wireless package bundled with the laptop. model wpc11 version 3 It just uses an orinoco driver. In 2.4 i just followed the instructions from the pcmcia-cs ebuild (about disabling and enabling stuff in the kernel). 2.5/2.6-test was a bit trickier from lack of documentation (or simpler due to everything already being in the kernel, depending on your POV), but it works fine here too now. -- Chris I Type louder, please. pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
[gentoo-user] Looking for help with PCMCIA
I saw the recent thread about pcmcia-cs. I have gone through the PCMCIA HOWTO, and have changed my kernel config too many times to count. After each of the kernel changes, I always re-emerge pcmcia-cs, but still have no luck. I have a Toshiba Tecra 8000 with a 3Com Megahertz 3CCFEM556 B which used to work under RH9 with the 3c574_cs module. Performing a lsmod shows absolutely no modules loaded. The error I get is cardmgr[xxx]: no pcmcia driver in /proc/devices Basically what I am looking for is some place to find more info... Thanks, -andrew -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
[gentoo-user] Looking for a linux supported DualCam
Hi, I want a webcam that can do normal video recording you'd expect from a webcam as well as taking still images without being connected to the PC like a digicam would do. So far I've looked into Creative Lab's PC-CAM series as well as Logitech Click-Smart series. They have exactly the features I want but I don't think they are fully supported in linux. http://www.americas.creative.com/products/product.asp?maincategory=6category=447product=460 http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm?page=products/detailsCRID=4CONTENTID=5034countryid=2languageid=1 Anybody knows about a webcam that can be used as a basic digicam and that is supported in linux? I would love to know. Thank you! Cedric -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Looking for a linux supported DualCam
Try thease pages for help: http://www.exploits.org/v4l/ - variety of info (drivers, software, howto, etc) http://alpha.dyndns.org/ov511/cameras.html - lists supported cameras ov511 and their status http://www.smcc.demon.nl/webcam/which.html http://webcam.sourceforge.net/#cams http://www.cs.duke.edu/~reynolds/quickcam/ On Thu, 27 Mar 2003 04:13:46 -0500 Cedric Veilleux [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, I want a webcam that can do normal video recording you'd expect from a webcam as well as taking still images without being connected to the PC like a digicam would do. So far I've looked into Creative Lab's PC-CAM series as well as Logitech Click-Smart series. They have exactly the features I want but I don't think they are fully supported in linux. http://www.americas.creative.com/products/product.asp?maincategory=6category=447product=460 http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm?page=products/detailsCRID=4CONTENTID=5034countryid=2languageid=1 Anybody knows about a webcam that can be used as a basic digicam and that is supported in linux? I would love to know. I have a creative webcam plus and it also uses cmos. The picture quality could be better and it also has an artifact which appeared on my cam and at least one other persons. So beware that model your looking at could have the same issues.(re the creative labs one) I see the other uses cmos as well. There are other cameras like thease afik that do support ccd and they may provide a better picture. With corrective measures taken to deal with the artifact et al this is what a pic from my cam looks like(this was under a varient of the xawtv webcam app and I've now switched to came and yes thats me in the pic): http://members.shaw.ca/arienadean/current-pic.jpg -- Susie VE7 HFA [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://arienadean.tripod.com/ --- Education is an admirable thing, but it is well to remember from time to time that nothing that is worth knowing can be taught. - Oscar Wilde -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
[gentoo-user] looking for slashapp
Hello, I have gnome 2.0.3-r1 installed and was wondering how to install/configure slashapp. Thanks Ryan -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
