Re: [gentoo-user] new machine : (1) which CPU ?
On Fri, Jul 20, 2012 at 08:49:32PM -0500, Alecks Gates wrote I'd pick AMD, and very likely one of their APUs if you don't need intense graphics, as they seem to be able to handle most things well and even some light gaming. How do AMD's and Intel's open source video drivers compare? -- Walter Dnes waltd...@waltdnes.org
Re: [gentoo-user] new machine : (1) which CPU ?
Am 21.07.2012 07:55, schrieb waltd...@waltdnes.org: On Fri, Jul 20, 2012 at 08:49:32PM -0500, Alecks Gates wrote I'd pick AMD, and very likely one of their APUs if you don't need intense graphics, as they seem to be able to handle most things well and even some light gaming. How do AMD's and Intel's open source video drivers compare? Last time I tried to use AMD's open source driver, it worked well for office applications and minor OpenGL (glxgears, desktop effects, etc.) but it couldn't play a DVD on full screen (1920 * x) without frame drops. (Yes, I tried tuning parameters with mplayer2). Intel's driver works well enough for this but it doesn't have much head room, either. ATI's closed source driver works pretty well, too, nowadays. I had trouble with xorg-server-1.12 but haven't investigated it, yet. Regards, Florian Philipp signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-user] new machine : (1) which CPU ?
Hello! On Sat, 21 Jul 2012 10:44:11 +0200 Florian Philipp li...@binarywings.net wrote: Am 21.07.2012 07:55, schrieb waltd...@waltdnes.org: On Fri, Jul 20, 2012 at 08:49:32PM -0500, Alecks Gates wrote I'd pick AMD, and very likely one of their APUs if you don't need intense graphics, as they seem to be able to handle most things well and even some light gaming. How do AMD's and Intel's open source video drivers compare? Last time I tried to use AMD's open source driver, it worked well for office applications and minor OpenGL (glxgears, desktop effects, etc.) but it couldn't play a DVD on full screen (1920 * x) without frame drops. (Yes, I tried tuning parameters with mplayer2). Intel's driver works well enough for this but it doesn't have much head room, either. ATI's closed source driver works pretty well, too, nowadays. I had trouble with xorg-server-1.12 but haven't investigated it, yet. Regards, Florian Philipp One of my friends uses ATI video card both on desktop and laptop machines and he told me recently that the free driver for ATI video chips ( http://xorg.freedesktop.org/wiki/ati ) is very good nowadays and is being actively developed. He also said that the performance of his video card with open-source driver in different modes is almost the same as with the proprietary driver. I just don't remember the exact video card model, unfortunately. And according to this article: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_itempx=MTA3NDE AMD releases the code for some newer chips as well. Which gives more chance for the new hardware to work good with GNU/Linux. Regards, Vladimir - v...@ukr.net
Re: [gentoo-user] new machine : (1) which CPU ?
On Sat, Jul 21, 2012 at 12:55 AM, waltd...@waltdnes.org wrote: On Fri, Jul 20, 2012 at 08:49:32PM -0500, Alecks Gates wrote I'd pick AMD, and very likely one of their APUs if you don't need intense graphics, as they seem to be able to handle most things well and even some light gaming. How do AMD's and Intel's open source video drivers compare? -- Walter Dnes waltd...@waltdnes.org I've never used an Intel chip actually (well not in ages, and not on Linux), but they tend to have the best open source drivers. Their graphics chips aren't nearly as good, though. AMD radeon open source drivers are getting better with every kernel. Apparently there was a huge performance increase with 3.5 alone. They are catching up and as long as you don't have something brand new the support is pretty good (and apparently even this is getting better, too). Funny enough, there are some things I've actually had run faster using radeon than fglrx, mostly with wine games. But the radeon driver still does not have full support and even some things will simply not work with them.
[gentoo-user] new machine : (1) which CPU ?
I plan to build a new machine in the next few months: it wb for regular desktop use, but performance is as important as price. A quick look at what was available in April suggested an Intel Ivy Bridge i7 ( 22 nm ) ; Phoronix said it works with Kernel 3.2 + an Intel Z77 mobo (I usually buy ASUS) that power/watt was excellent. However, I'm quite willing to look at AMD or consider waiting a bit till something newer from Intel reaches the regular market. My current box dates from 2007 my stand-by from 2002 : the former has an Intel Core2 Duo, the latter an AMD Athlon XP 2500+ . I don't want to pay a premium price for a bleeding-edge device which wb available at a more normal price a few months later. I wb buying it from the local store (Canada Computers), not on-line. Does anyone have thoughts or advice ? -- ,, SUPPORT ___//___, Philip Webb ELECTRIC /] [] [] [] [] []| Cities Centre, University of Toronto TRANSIT`-O--O---' purslowatchassdotutorontodotca
Re: [gentoo-user] new machine : (1) which CPU ?
Hello! On Fri, 20 Jul 2012 03:24:42 -0400 Philip Webb purs...@ca.inter.net wrote: I plan to build a new machine in the next few months: it wb for regular desktop use, but performance is as important as price. A quick look at what was available in April suggested an Intel Ivy Bridge i7 ( 22 nm ) ; Phoronix said it works with Kernel 3.2 + an Intel Z77 mobo (I usually buy ASUS) that power/watt was excellent. If you are considering to buy an Intel CPU, I'd recommend you to pay some attention to such Intel' technologies as this one: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandy_Bridge#Intel_Insider_and_remote-control because it doesn't looks like an advantage to the end user, but rather as a security (or privacy) hole in one's system. However, I'm quite willing to look at AMD or consider waiting a bit till something newer from Intel reaches the regular market. Speaking of AMD processors, I remember one of my friends told that their A10-series a good. I didn't study any details of it, but if you are interested, you can check them out as well. My current box dates from 2007 my stand-by from 2002 : the former has an Intel Core2 Duo, the latter an AMD Athlon XP 2500+ . I don't want to pay a premium price for a bleeding-edge device which wb available at a more normal price a few months later. I wb buying it from the local store (Canada Computers), not on-line. Does anyone have thoughts or advice ? Regards, Vladimir - v...@ukr.net
Re: [gentoo-user] new machine : (1) which CPU ?
v...@ukr.net wrote: Hello! On Fri, 20 Jul 2012 03:24:42 -0400 Philip Webb purs...@ca.inter.net wrote: However, I'm quite willing to look at AMD or consider waiting a bit till something newer from Intel reaches the regular market. Speaking of AMD processors, I remember one of my friends told that their A10-series a good. I didn't study any details of it, but if you are interested, you can check them out as well. Regards, Vladimir - v...@ukr.net I built my rig with a AMD CPU and I like it. I prefer AMD since it has a lot of bang for less bucks. Mine is this one: AMD Phenom(tm) II X4 955 Processor I went from 12 to 14 hours building LOo on my older AMD 2500+ single core to about a hour or so on my new rig. One thing I have learned over the years when money is tight. Always buy parts that are about 2 to 3 notches below the latest release. My current CPU is 3.2Ghz which is about two notches below the fastest they had at the time. I think the fastest was 3.4Ghz or something. I saved a lot of money but most likely wouldn't be able to see the difference in speed. You can do the same for mobos and such too. Also, with Linux, older hardware has more stable drivers than newer stuff. If you buy a brand new mobo with all new chipsets, you can run into stability issues until the drivers get sorted out. If you buy one that has been out a year or so, you have a MUCH better chance of getting good stable drivers. As always, your mileage may vary. Dale :-) :-) -- I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or how you interpreted my words!
Re: [gentoo-user] new machine : (1) which CPU ?
On Fri, Jul 20, 2012 at 7:40 AM, v...@ukr.net wrote: Hello! On Fri, 20 Jul 2012 03:24:42 -0400 Philip Webb purs...@ca.inter.net wrote: I plan to build a new machine in the next few months: it wb for regular desktop use, but performance is as important as price. A quick look at what was available in April suggested an Intel Ivy Bridge i7 ( 22 nm ) ; Phoronix said it works with Kernel 3.2 + an Intel Z77 mobo (I usually buy ASUS) that power/watt was excellent. If you are considering to buy an Intel CPU, I'd recommend you to pay some attention to such Intel' technologies as this one: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandy_Bridge#Intel_Insider_and_remote-control because it doesn't looks like an advantage to the end user, but rather as a security (or privacy) hole in one's system. We went through this on this list a couple months ago. That tech has been part of business-grade laptops and workstations for a while. It's intended as a tool for a corporate IT department, not the direct user of the machine. I'm not saying it's something I'd necessarily like to have on my personal devices, just that it's not exactly new. -- :wq
Re: [gentoo-user] new machine : (1) which CPU ?
Am 20.07.2012 14:06, schrieb Dale: v...@ukr.net wrote: Hello! On Fri, 20 Jul 2012 03:24:42 -0400 Philip Webb purs...@ca.inter.net wrote: However, I'm quite willing to look at AMD or consider waiting a bit till something newer from Intel reaches the regular market. Speaking of AMD processors, I remember one of my friends told that their A10-series a good. I didn't study any details of it, but if you are interested, you can check them out as well. Regards, Vladimir - v...@ukr.net I built my rig with a AMD CPU and I like it. I prefer AMD since it has a lot of bang for less bucks. Mine is this one: AMD Phenom(tm) II X4 955 Processor I went from 12 to 14 hours building LOo on my older AMD 2500+ single core to about a hour or so on my new rig. One thing I have learned over the years when money is tight. Always buy parts that are about 2 to 3 notches below the latest release. My current CPU is 3.2Ghz which is about two notches below the fastest they had at the time. I think the fastest was 3.4Ghz or something. I saved a lot of money but most likely wouldn't be able to see the difference in speed. You can do the same for mobos and such too. Also, with Linux, older hardware has more stable drivers than newer stuff. If you buy a brand new mobo with all new chipsets, you can run into stability issues until the drivers get sorted out. If you buy one that has been out a year or so, you have a MUCH better chance of getting good stable drivers. As always, your mileage may vary. Dale :-) :-) +1 for AMD, especially if you consider integrated GPUs. If you want to be sure you get a good deal, look for FLOPS per Dollar charts or similar benchmarks. For example this [1]. [1] http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu_value_available.html Regards, Florian Philipp signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-user] new machine : (1) which CPU ?
OP, If you need help with this, i'd be glad to help you pick parts for your build. The biggest thing is to make sure things work together. If the mobo only has SATA drive connectors, a IDE hard drive will not work. You have to make sure the memory will work with the mobo you have picked too. Mobo, CPU and memory certainly are critical to work together. If you want help, let me know. I'm sure others will chime in too. Dale :-) :-) -- I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or how you interpreted my words!
Re: [gentoo-user] new machine : (1) which CPU ?
On Friday 20 Jul 2012 13:13:41 Michael Mol wrote: On Fri, Jul 20, 2012 at 7:40 AM, v...@ukr.net wrote: Hello! On Fri, 20 Jul 2012 03:24:42 -0400 Philip Webb purs...@ca.inter.net wrote: I plan to build a new machine in the next few months: it wb for regular desktop use, but performance is as important as price. A quick look at what was available in April suggested an Intel Ivy Bridge i7 ( 22 nm ) ; Phoronix said it works with Kernel 3.2 + an Intel Z77 mobo (I usually buy ASUS) that power/watt was excellent. If you are considering to buy an Intel CPU, I'd recommend you to pay some attention to such Intel' technologies as this one: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandy_Bridge#Intel_Insider_and_remote-contr ol because it doesn't looks like an advantage to the end user, but rather as a security (or privacy) hole in one's system. We went through this on this list a couple months ago. That tech has been part of business-grade laptops and workstations for a while. It's intended as a tool for a corporate IT department, not the direct user of the machine. I'm not saying it's something I'd necessarily like to have on my personal devices, just that it's not exactly new. I didn't know my laptop came with this aheam 'Intel rootkit' feature until I posted here a few weeks ago. I haven't done any research on this, but found these spooky pages: http://communities.intel.com/community/vproexpert/blog/2012/01/19/configuring- intel-vpro-with-linux-in-user-control-mode http://software.intel.com/en-us/articles/download-the-latest-intel-amt-open- source-drivers/ I'm not sure how vulnerable my machine may be as supplied by Dell - I assume that unless the system is enabled first no out-of-band attempts will work. -- Regards, Mick signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] new machine : (1) which CPU ?
120720 Dale wrote to me as OP: If you need help with this, i'd be glad to help you pick parts for your build. The biggest thing is to make sure things work together. Thanks for the offer the other advice from everyone so far. I built machines successfully in 2000 2003 2007 am still using the last 2 , tho' the 2007 mobo failed (ASUS) its replacement is showing minor bugs (glad I got in-store warranty). Therefore, I'm not looking for basic advice how to put a box together. I'm also willing to pay for a fast upto-date CPU, but not of course whatever came out just last week, which will soon drop in price will still need some bugs sorting out. I don't have to choose between a good CPU a good SSD expect to get a competitive price from Canada Computers, as before. Any further thoughts re Intel vs AMD wb very welcome. -- ,, SUPPORT ___//___, Philip Webb ELECTRIC /] [] [] [] [] []| Cities Centre, University of Toronto TRANSIT`-O--O---' purslowatchassdotutorontodotca
Re: [gentoo-user] new machine : (1) which CPU ?
On Fri, Jul 20, 2012 at 8:27 PM, Philip Webb purs...@ca.inter.net wrote: 120720 Dale wrote to me as OP: If you need help with this, i'd be glad to help you pick parts for your build. The biggest thing is to make sure things work together. Thanks for the offer the other advice from everyone so far. I built machines successfully in 2000 2003 2007 am still using the last 2 , tho' the 2007 mobo failed (ASUS) its replacement is showing minor bugs (glad I got in-store warranty). Therefore, I'm not looking for basic advice how to put a box together. I'm also willing to pay for a fast upto-date CPU, but not of course whatever came out just last week, which will soon drop in price will still need some bugs sorting out. I don't have to choose between a good CPU a good SSD expect to get a competitive price from Canada Computers, as before. Any further thoughts re Intel vs AMD wb very welcome. -- ,, SUPPORT ___//___, Philip Webb ELECTRIC /] [] [] [] [] []| Cities Centre, University of Toronto TRANSIT`-O--O---' purslowatchassdotutorontodotca You'd definitely get more bang for your buck out of AMD, especially with Gentoo. It might even be worth waiting for AMD's piledriver-core CPUs depending on how much of an improvement they actually give, though I'm not sure when those are supposed to be out. And paying for a top-of-the-line AMD CPU is still much cheaper than Intel. This is a very broad generalization of course, but a lot of it comes down to multi-threaded (lean towards AMD) vs single-threaded (lean towards Intel). Honestly I don't think you'd notice the difference anyway on a general desktop. I'd pick AMD, and very likely one of their APUs if you don't need intense graphics, as they seem to be able to handle most things well and even some light gaming.
Re: [gentoo-user] new machine : (1) which CPU ?
Alecks Gates wrote: On Fri, Jul 20, 2012 at 8:27 PM, Philip Webb purs...@ca.inter.net wrote: 120720 Dale wrote to me as OP: If you need help with this, i'd be glad to help you pick parts for your build. The biggest thing is to make sure things work together. Thanks for the offer the other advice from everyone so far. I built machines successfully in 2000 2003 2007 am still using the last 2 , tho' the 2007 mobo failed (ASUS) its replacement is showing minor bugs (glad I got in-store warranty). Therefore, I'm not looking for basic advice how to put a box together. I'm also willing to pay for a fast upto-date CPU, but not of course whatever came out just last week, which will soon drop in price will still need some bugs sorting out. I don't have to choose between a good CPU a good SSD expect to get a competitive price from Canada Computers, as before. Any further thoughts re Intel vs AMD wb very welcome. -- ,, SUPPORT ___//___, Philip Webb ELECTRIC /] [] [] [] [] []| Cities Centre, University of Toronto TRANSIT`-O--O---' purslowatchassdotutorontodotca You'd definitely get more bang for your buck out of AMD, especially with Gentoo. It might even be worth waiting for AMD's piledriver-core CPUs depending on how much of an improvement they actually give, though I'm not sure when those are supposed to be out. And paying for a top-of-the-line AMD CPU is still much cheaper than Intel. This is a very broad generalization of course, but a lot of it comes down to multi-threaded (lean towards AMD) vs single-threaded (lean towards Intel). Honestly I don't think you'd notice the difference anyway on a general desktop. I'd pick AMD, and very likely one of their APUs if you don't need intense graphics, as they seem to be able to handle most things well and even some light gaming. I did some checking when I built my rig. If I recall correctly, just a comparable Intel CPU would have cost as much as my AMD CPU *and* the mobo. After you put down some bucks for the CPU, you still have to buy a mobo which seem pricey to me as well. Between those two parts, you can spend a lot of money for Intel based stuff. Seriously, for desktop use and budget, go with AMD. Spend the money you save on your SSD or a really nice video card. After all, the video card is what you really see anyway. I'm not saying Intel is bad but AMD is a great CPU and much cheaper. Dale :-) :-) -- I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or how you interpreted my words!
Re: [gentoo-user] new machine : (1) which CPU ?
On Fri, Jul 20, 2012 at 9:49 PM, Alecks Gates aleck...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Jul 20, 2012 at 8:27 PM, Philip Webb purs...@ca.inter.net wrote: 120720 Dale wrote to me as OP: If you need help with this, i'd be glad to help you pick parts for your build. The biggest thing is to make sure things work together. Thanks for the offer the other advice from everyone so far. I built machines successfully in 2000 2003 2007 am still using the last 2 , tho' the 2007 mobo failed (ASUS) its replacement is showing minor bugs (glad I got in-store warranty). Therefore, I'm not looking for basic advice how to put a box together. I'm also willing to pay for a fast upto-date CPU, but not of course whatever came out just last week, which will soon drop in price will still need some bugs sorting out. I don't have to choose between a good CPU a good SSD expect to get a competitive price from Canada Computers, as before. Any further thoughts re Intel vs AMD wb very welcome. -- ,, SUPPORT ___//___, Philip Webb ELECTRIC /] [] [] [] [] []| Cities Centre, University of Toronto TRANSIT`-O--O---' purslowatchassdotutorontodotca You'd definitely get more bang for your buck out of AMD, especially with Gentoo. It might even be worth waiting for AMD's piledriver-core CPUs depending on how much of an improvement they actually give, though I'm not sure when those are supposed to be out. And paying for a top-of-the-line AMD CPU is still much cheaper than Intel. This is a very broad generalization of course, but a lot of it comes down to multi-threaded (lean towards AMD) vs single-threaded (lean towards Intel). Honestly I don't think you'd notice the difference anyway on a general desktop. I'd pick AMD, and very likely one of their APUs if you don't need intense graphics, as they seem to be able to handle most things well and even some light gaming. I love AMD for the historical ladder upgrades; all of my AMD systems are comprised of components (RAM, CPU, and other pieces) which mostly came from previous systems or newer systems' replaced components. That's nice, and wonderfully cheap. That said, right now Intel gives the best performance per watt...and perhaps the best performance per dollar. I'm a few months out of date on my research, though. Wander around on cpubenchmark.net (Thanks, Florian, I'd lost my bookmark to that site) and find the processor that fits your price and performance level. Both Intel and AMD make excellent processors, so you'll have to do your own research for a good decision. -- :wq
