Re: [gentoo-user] Suggestions for a minimalistic system
On 20 January 2007 20:23, Vlad Dogaru wrote: > On 1/20/07, Uwe Thiem <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > One good thing (among others) of using a real desktop environment is that > > all apps share the vast majority of libraries which are loaded into > > memory just once. When you mix environments or use an eclectic > > collection of unrelated apps, they all draw in different libraries and > > memory usage goes up. > > With this in mind, would running a (few) GTK apps on KDE make a large > difference? For instance, I am quite fond of Gaim, and even if I were > to try KDE, I wouldn't want to give it up (though I heard Kopette is > comparably capable). If one is short of ram, it makes a difference, though GTK isn't much of a problem. If you run one single GNOME app under KDE, it pulls in a lot of GNOME libraries - and vice versa. Ue -- A fast and easy generator of fractals for KDE: http://www.SysEx.com.na/iwy-1.0.tar.bz2 Proof of concept of a TSP solver for KDE: http://www.SysEx.com.na/epat-0.1.tar.bz2 -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Suggestions for a minimalistic system
On Saturday 20 January 2007 18:23, Vlad Dogaru wrote: > On 1/20/07, Uwe Thiem <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > One good thing (among others) of using a real desktop environment is that > > all apps share the vast majority of libraries which are loaded into > > memory just once. When you mix environments or use an eclectic > > collection of unrelated apps, they all draw in different libraries and > > memory usage goes up. > > With this in mind, would running a (few) GTK apps on KDE make a large > difference? For instance, I am quite fond of Gaim, and even if I were > to try KDE, I wouldn't want to give it up (though I heard Kopette is > comparably capable). I'm using Gaim because it is lighter, but Kopete can do more (e.g. voicecalls with Gmail). Once I have loaded Kmail or any other KDE base application then the added load of Kopete is not that much. In any case, running Gaim ontop of KDE is more or less imperceptible. -- Regards, Mick pgpK9W9zkhrOt.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Suggestions for a minimalistic system
On 1/20/07, Uwe Thiem <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: One good thing (among others) of using a real desktop environment is that all apps share the vast majority of libraries which are loaded into memory just once. When you mix environments or use an eclectic collection of unrelated apps, they all draw in different libraries and memory usage goes up. With this in mind, would running a (few) GTK apps on KDE make a large difference? For instance, I am quite fond of Gaim, and even if I were to try KDE, I wouldn't want to give it up (though I heard Kopette is comparably capable). -- How's my English? How about my Netiquette? Do mail me if something is wrong with my behaviour. Thank you. -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Suggestions for a minimalistic system
Bo Ørsted Andresen wrote: On Saturday 20 January 2007 19:32, Avaricen wrote: Of course, Conkeror is still Firefox underneath, so that won't help with it being a memory hog. You mean Konqueror. Err.. obviously not. Konqueror isn't based on Firefox... http://conkeror.mozdev.org/ Thanks for this, Bo. I didn't even know of the existence of conkeror before now. Best regards Avaricen -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Suggestions for a minimalistic system
Etaoin Shrdlu wrote: On Saturday 20 January 2007 19:32, Avaricen wrote: You mean Konqueror. No. See http://conkeror.mozdev.org :O I thought you were referring to the KDE app. ;) My apologies. -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Suggestions for a minimalistic system
On Saturday 20 January 2007 19:32, Avaricen wrote: > You mean Konqueror. No. See http://conkeror.mozdev.org -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Suggestions for a minimalistic system
On Saturday 20 January 2007 12:32, Avaricen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote about 'Re: [gentoo-user] Suggestions for a minimalistic system': > Luke Ravitch wrote: > > On 2007-01-19 09:45, Vlad Dogaru <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> I am especially looking for a browser to substitute Firefox. > >> I've tried Conkeror for Firefox, but it's too Emacs-centric > >> (vim person here) and also disables tabs (or maybe it's me -- I > >> couldn't get them to work). > > > > I'd never heard of Conkeror, so I started playing with it. I really > > like it (but *I* am an Emacs guy). If you do "M-x use-vi-keys" (where > > "M-x" is probably Alt-x on your machine) then it feels more vi-like > > > > It doesn't seem to do tabs, but it will open pages in different > > (Emacs-like) buffers. > > > > Of course, Conkeror is still Firefox underneath, so that won't help > > with it being a memory hog. > > You mean Konqueror. No, Konqueror doesn't use Firefox or any Gecko technology underneath. I believe the KDE developers are calling their technology (that is also used the KDE applications KHTML parts) either webkit or webcore. Also, as far as I know, Konqueror doesn't have this strange emacs-like behavior and definitely has normal tabs. -- Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. ,= ,-_-. =. [EMAIL PROTECTED] ((_/)o o(\_)) ICQ: 514984 YM/AIM: DaTwinkDaddy `-'(. .)`-' http://iguanasuicide.org/ \_/ pgp249kfPdgC1.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Suggestions for a minimalistic system
On Saturday 20 January 2007 19:32, Avaricen wrote: > > Of course, Conkeror is still Firefox underneath, so that won't help > > with it being a memory hog. > > You mean Konqueror. Err.. obviously not. Konqueror isn't based on Firefox... http://conkeror.mozdev.org/ -- Bo Andresen pgpU3M3RpE3zj.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Suggestions for a minimalistic system
Luke Ravitch wrote: On 2007-01-19 09:45, Vlad Dogaru <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I am especially looking for a browser to substitute Firefox (it's great, but quite a memory hog). I like links, what with its graphical capabilities, but it lacks tabs and that's a major downside in my vision. I've tried Conkeror for Firefox, but it's too Emacs-centric (vim person here) and also disables tabs (or maybe it's me -- I couldn't get them to work). I'd never heard of Conkeror, so I started playing with it. I really like it (but *I* am an Emacs guy). If you do "M-x use-vi-keys" (where "M-x" is probably Alt-x on your machine) then it feels more vi-like (j,k scroll up/down; h,l go back/forward; colon for commands instead of M-x). It doesn't seem to do tabs, but it will open pages in different (Emacs-like) buffers. Use "C-x f" (with emacs keys) to open a URL in a new buffer. Then "C-x b" to switch between buffers. (Not sure what the equivilent vi-style keystrokes are, but they might be there) Of course, Conkeror is still Firefox underneath, so that won't help with it being a memory hog. Anyway, thanks for showing me something new and cool! You mean Konqueror. -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Suggestions for a minimalistic system
On 1/20/07, Uwe Thiem <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On 19 January 2007 23:46, Vlad Dogaru wrote: > On 1/19/07, b.n. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Buy a couple spare RAM modules. Surely I agree with your will to build a > > minimalistic system, this will help anyway and it's a nice experience, > > but RAM is quite cheap and is the magic elisir that allows outdated > > machines to be still usable -the CPU is rarely a problem, unless you > > often do something quite computationally intensive. > > I have 384 megs of RAM and no imediate possibility of buying more. I > realise it is arguably sufficient for many lightweight applications, but, > as I mentioned, it is becoming increasingly frustrating, even with the real > power of Gentoo and Fluxbox (the two have changed my life -- literally). This is odd.My main workstation also has 384MB of ram. I run a full KDE session and do not experience any slow down. Right now, I have open: 9 konqueror windows (not tabs), kmail, kmahjongg, konsole with 3 sessions, noatun, kcalc. My background is a 1024x768 photo which also takes some memory. Switching between virtual desktops is instantaneous, all apps are very responsive. My current Fluxbox session uses 26% of 384 MiB of RAM, with 6 firefox tabs, Gaim, Eterm, Conky, mpd and other mostly insignificant processes. But I still experience a serious drop in responsiveness when opening, say, 3 Slashdot tabs at once, or when starting linuxdcpp. One good thing (among others) of using a real desktop environment is that all apps share the vast majority of libraries which are loaded into memory just once. When you mix environments or use an eclectic collection of unrelated apps, they all draw in different libraries and memory usage goes up. I've tried to keep most things down to GTK and X. For instance, I haven't even installed qt. -- How's my English? How about my Netiquette? Do mail me if something is wrong with my behaviour. Thank you. -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Suggestions for a minimalistic system
Uwe Thiem wrote: > > This is odd.My main workstation also has 384MB of ram. I run a full KDE > session and do not experience any slow down. Right now, I have open: 9 > konqueror windows (not tabs), kmail, kmahjongg, konsole with 3 sessions, > noatun, kcalc. My background is a 1024x768 photo which also takes some > memory. Switching between virtual desktops is instantaneous, all apps are > very responsive. > > One good thing (among others) of using a real desktop environment is that all > apps share the vast majority of libraries which are loaded into memory just > once. When you mix environments or use an eclectic collection of unrelated > apps, they all draw in different libraries and memory usage goes up. > > Uwe > > I tend to agree with this. I use KDE myself. I have 1Gb of ram but as I type only about 280 MBs of it is in use. The rest is disk cache. I have a full blown KDE and I have Seamonkey, Konsole with several tabs open, Kppp, Konqueror, Kpatience, Kopete and Gkrellm open. I also have a lot of server stuff running too. Ntp, cups, folding which uses a lot on this unit, nut, rsync, http-replicator, distcc and no telling what else I forgot about. With a fresh login. I use less than 100MBs and that is with all that servers stuff and folding running still. Well, folding varies. Sometimes it uses a lot. sometimes not. Maybe you need to use top to see what is using all that memory. I have ran KDE with 256MBs of ram and had no problems with that either. 128MBs may be a problem though. That's getting into using swap a bit. Post back what you find though. I'm curious now. Maybe post what top says. This is mine showing only what uses more than 1%: > 8614 root 34 19 117m 90m 1384 S 0.0 9.0 0:01.51 > FahCore_a0.exe > 8616 root 34 19 117m 90m 1384 S 0.0 9.0 0:00.03 > FahCore_a0.exe > 8617 root 39 19 117m 90m 1384 R 24.6 9.0 5132:32 > FahCore_a0.exe > 8618 root 34 19 117m 90m 1384 S 0.0 9.0 0:00.00 > FahCore_a0.exe > 5373 dale 15 0 201m 78m 23m S 0.0 7.7 2:55.74 seamonkey-bin > 20372 root 15 0 82616 48m 5380 S 1.3 4.8 5:00.31 X > 16683 distcc35 15 47360 38m 5620 R 29.3 3.8 0:00.88 cc1plus > 22159 dale 15 0 61004 29m 18m S 0.0 3.0 0:44.93 kopete > 22578 root 15 0 36628 24m 19m S 0.0 2.4 0:02.19 konqueror > 22119 dale 15 0 32028 18m 11m S 0.0 1.9 1:32.15 kdesktop > 22143 dale 15 0 25704 15m 12m S 0.0 1.6 0:02.99 kpat > 22126 dale 15 0 28460 14m 11m S 0.0 1.4 0:10.78 kicker > 22144 dale 15 0 24012 14m 11m S 0.0 1.4 0:00.98 kppp > 22150 dale 15 0 27848 13m 10m S 0.0 1.3 0:14.60 konsole > 22149 dale 15 0 27396 13m 10m S 0.0 1.3 0:00.48 kgpg > 22160 dale 20 0 23260 12m 11m S 0.0 1.3 0:02.85 kdesu > 22102 dale 15 0 27776 12m 10m S 0.0 1.3 0:02.58 kded > 6334 haldaemo 15 0 14048 12m 1632 S 0.0 1.2 31:51.26 hald > 22117 dale 15 0 31744 12m 9528 S 0.0 1.2 0:03.84 knotify > 22115 dale 24 0 25460 11m 9316 S 0.0 1.1 0:04.57 kwin > 22169 dale 15 0 24448 10m 9016 S 0.0 1.1 0:00.33 klipper > 6882 root 15 0 23724 10m 9100 S 0.0 1.1 0:00.14 kio_uiserver Maybe one of the gurus will see something strange. Dale :-) :-) :-) :-) -- www.myspace.com/dalek1967
Re: [gentoo-user] Suggestions for a minimalistic system
On 19 January 2007 23:46, Vlad Dogaru wrote: > On 1/19/07, b.n. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Buy a couple spare RAM modules. Surely I agree with your will to build a > > minimalistic system, this will help anyway and it's a nice experience, > > but RAM is quite cheap and is the magic elisir that allows outdated > > machines to be still usable -the CPU is rarely a problem, unless you > > often do something quite computationally intensive. > > I have 384 megs of RAM and no imediate possibility of buying more. I > realise it is arguably sufficient for many lightweight applications, but, > as I mentioned, it is becoming increasingly frustrating, even with the real > power of Gentoo and Fluxbox (the two have changed my life -- literally). This is odd.My main workstation also has 384MB of ram. I run a full KDE session and do not experience any slow down. Right now, I have open: 9 konqueror windows (not tabs), kmail, kmahjongg, konsole with 3 sessions, noatun, kcalc. My background is a 1024x768 photo which also takes some memory. Switching between virtual desktops is instantaneous, all apps are very responsive. One good thing (among others) of using a real desktop environment is that all apps share the vast majority of libraries which are loaded into memory just once. When you mix environments or use an eclectic collection of unrelated apps, they all draw in different libraries and memory usage goes up. Uwe -- A fast and easy generator of fractals for KDE: http://www.SysEx.com.na/iwy-1.0.tar.bz2 Proof of concept of a TSP solver for KDE: http://www.SysEx.com.na/epat-0.1.tar.bz2 -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Suggestions for a minimalistic system
Vlad Dogaru ha scritto: I have 384 megs of RAM and no imediate possibility of buying more. I realise it is arguably sufficient for many lightweight applications, but, as I mentioned, it is becoming increasingly frustrating, even with the real power of Gentoo and Fluxbox (the two have changed my life -- literally). 384 megs are low but not so bad. I did run a Kubuntu 6.06 system at work using full KDE+Firefox+Thunderbird, Gimp, Inkscape, kpdf etc. and yes, it was slow and I had to take care not to keep too much apps on at the same time (otherwise it was swap hell), but it worked. Of course now that I added 512 mb it's much better... I think you just have to be careful about apps, but not worry too much. I read up on Dillo and it looks promising. I will try it. As for Opera, I used it on Windows for quite some time, but at one point I started to be annoyed by the numerous marginally useful (at least to me) features that got added. I still regard it as a great browser, comparable to Firefox, but not what I am looking for. I'd keep firefox or opera installed as a lifeboat, anyway. Dillo and links cannot match the other two for many features you *may* have the need sometimes. Unfortunately the other good browser I'm aware of (Konqueror) requires kdelibs, that probably you're trying to avoid... m. -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Suggestions for a minimalistic system
On 1/19/07, b.n. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Vlad Dogaru ha scritto: > Hello, > > I am recently growing fed up with strongly graphical applications > causing my (admittedly quite old) computer to slow down to a crawl. I > like the concept of Ratpoison and am thinking of switching to it, but > could use a few tips for making the big change. Buy a couple spare RAM modules. Surely I agree with your will to build a minimalistic system, this will help anyway and it's a nice experience, but RAM is quite cheap and is the magic elisir that allows outdated machines to be still usable -the CPU is rarely a problem, unless you often do something quite computationally intensive. I have 384 megs of RAM and no imediate possibility of buying more. I realise it is arguably sufficient for many lightweight applications, but, as I mentioned, it is becoming increasingly frustrating, even with the real power of Gentoo and Fluxbox (the two have changed my life -- literally). I am especially looking for a browser to substitute Firefox (it's great, > but quite a memory hog). I like links, what with its graphical > capabilities, but it lacks tabs and that's a major downside in my > vision. I've tried Conkeror for Firefox, but it's too Emacs-centric (vim > person here) and also disables tabs (or maybe it's me -- I couldn't get > them to work). Did you try Dillo? I don't know if it has tabs but it seems *very* lightweight. Otherwise maybe Opera? people insist in saying it's really fast and light (and has tabs:as a matter of fact, Opera invented them!), but I personally don't know. I read up on Dillo and it looks promising. I will try it. As for Opera, I used it on Windows for quite some time, but at one point I started to be annoyed by the numerous marginally useful (at least to me) features that got added. I still regard it as a great browser, comparable to Firefox, but not what I am looking for. Any other tips or nifty programs you could link me to would be greatly > appreciated, especially Ratpoison-related; For instance, C-t is too > RSI-prone for my taste and conflicts with Firefox's new tab button (I > want to switch, but I realise fx could prove irreplaceable, mainly due > to the large userbase). Try to see what purposely lightweight distros like DamnSmallLinux, VectorLinux and Puppy Linux install by default, I think you'll have a good choice of lightweight packages. However as far as concerning ratpoison, I know nothing... > How's my English? How about my Netiquette? > Do mail me if something is wrong with my behaviour. Thank you. This is going to be the best sign of 2007 :) - I really appreciate this kind of approach. Thanks. I really look forward to constructive critique. Vlad -- How's my English? How about my Netiquette? Do mail me if something is wrong with my behaviour. Thank you.
Re: [gentoo-user] Suggestions for a minimalistic system
On 2007-01-19 09:45, Vlad Dogaru <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I am especially looking for a browser to substitute Firefox (it's great, but > quite a memory hog). I like links, what with its graphical capabilities, but > it lacks tabs and that's a major downside in my vision. I've tried Conkeror > for Firefox, but it's too Emacs-centric (vim person here) and also disables > tabs (or maybe it's me -- I couldn't get them to work). I'd never heard of Conkeror, so I started playing with it. I really like it (but *I* am an Emacs guy). If you do "M-x use-vi-keys" (where "M-x" is probably Alt-x on your machine) then it feels more vi-like (j,k scroll up/down; h,l go back/forward; colon for commands instead of M-x). It doesn't seem to do tabs, but it will open pages in different (Emacs-like) buffers. Use "C-x f" (with emacs keys) to open a URL in a new buffer. Then "C-x b" to switch between buffers. (Not sure what the equivilent vi-style keystrokes are, but they might be there) Of course, Conkeror is still Firefox underneath, so that won't help with it being a memory hog. Anyway, thanks for showing me something new and cool! -- Luke -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Suggestions for a minimalistic system
Hi, On Fri, 19 Jan 2007 19:40:21 + "b.n." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Buy a couple spare RAM modules. Surely I agree with your will to build a > minimalistic system, this will help anyway and it's a nice experience, > but RAM is quite cheap and is the magic elisir that allows outdated > machines to be still usable -the CPU is rarely a problem, unless you > often do something quite computationally intensive. Agreed. Anything below 128MB will be sluggish, no matter what. You can only change in what way it is sluggish, at least a bit. > > I am especially looking for a browser to substitute Firefox (it's great, > > but quite a memory hog). I like links, what with its graphical > > capabilities, but it lacks tabs and that's a major downside in my > > vision. I've tried Conkeror for Firefox, but it's too Emacs-centric (vim > > person here) and also disables tabs (or maybe it's me -- I couldn't get > > them to work). > > Did you try Dillo? I don't know if it has tabs but it seems *very* > lightweight. Dillo's nice and all, but it really has problems with complex sites. And don't expect it to show flash animation (I'm not sure if that is good or bad, actually), run Javascript (does it do that to some extend? Last time I had a look it didn't)... > Otherwise maybe Opera? people insist in saying it's really fast and > light (and has tabs:as a matter of fact, Opera invented them!), but I > personally don't know. Opera also is not free software (but it is as in beer). Personally, I like Opera very much. Does all the current pages (minor exceptions, but more page-hickups than real broken pages). But it will need RAM, too. That 128MB rule basically applies here. E.g. my currently opened Opera has a RSS of 76MB -- with 10 tabs open, part of them doing heavy Javascript jobs, like netvibes. > > Any other tips or nifty programs you could link me to would be greatly > > appreciated, especially Ratpoison-related; For instance, C-t is too > > RSI-prone for my taste and conflicts with Firefox's new tab button (I > > want to switch, but I realise fx could prove irreplaceable, mainly due > > to the large userbase). > > Try to see what purposely lightweight distros like DamnSmallLinux, > VectorLinux and Puppy Linux install by default, I think you'll have a > good choice of lightweight packages. However as far as concerning > ratpoison, I know nothing... If the OP likes ratpoison, he might enjoy evilwm (very small memory footprint, read the man page before running). If customization matters, I found pekwm do a very good job at this. Complex, albeit easy configuration. Nice themes -- but I did disable the themes, my WM has only keystrokes and neither borders nor a title bar. When there's need for a full desktop environment, I would suggest Xfce, too. -hwh -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Suggestions for a minimalistic system
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 PaulNM wrote: > I've never tried Ratpoison, but on my lower-power systems I use xfce, > which isn't too bad. If I want to really minimize resource usage I go > with Windowmaker. I did. It's screen for X. All windows will maximize. It's really geeky :D - And you use all of screen's C keys. - -- Arturo "Buanzo" Busleiman - Consultor Independiente en Seguridad Informatica ¿No sabés a dónde ir a comer o tomar algo? Visitá www.vivamoslavida.com.ar -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFFsQ6ZAlpOsGhXcE0RAqw2AJwNl3lHhvyqUJZPdSp5pTWmHc4TzwCfdXkR v7j2ZC/8052jNN5wPHkruJ8= =+nIg -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Suggestions for a minimalistic system
Vlad Dogaru ha scritto: Hello, I am recently growing fed up with strongly graphical applications causing my (admittedly quite old) computer to slow down to a crawl. I like the concept of Ratpoison and am thinking of switching to it, but could use a few tips for making the big change. Buy a couple spare RAM modules. Surely I agree with your will to build a minimalistic system, this will help anyway and it's a nice experience, but RAM is quite cheap and is the magic elisir that allows outdated machines to be still usable -the CPU is rarely a problem, unless you often do something quite computationally intensive. I am especially looking for a browser to substitute Firefox (it's great, but quite a memory hog). I like links, what with its graphical capabilities, but it lacks tabs and that's a major downside in my vision. I've tried Conkeror for Firefox, but it's too Emacs-centric (vim person here) and also disables tabs (or maybe it's me -- I couldn't get them to work). Did you try Dillo? I don't know if it has tabs but it seems *very* lightweight. Otherwise maybe Opera? people insist in saying it's really fast and light (and has tabs:as a matter of fact, Opera invented them!), but I personally don't know. Any other tips or nifty programs you could link me to would be greatly appreciated, especially Ratpoison-related; For instance, C-t is too RSI-prone for my taste and conflicts with Firefox's new tab button (I want to switch, but I realise fx could prove irreplaceable, mainly due to the large userbase). Try to see what purposely lightweight distros like DamnSmallLinux, VectorLinux and Puppy Linux install by default, I think you'll have a good choice of lightweight packages. However as far as concerning ratpoison, I know nothing... How's my English? How about my Netiquette? Do mail me if something is wrong with my behaviour. Thank you. This is going to be the best sign of 2007 :) - I really appreciate this kind of approach. m. -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Suggestions for a minimalistic system
Vlad Dogaru wrote: I like links, what with its graphical capabilities, but it lacks tabs and that's a major downside in my vision. I've tried Conkeror for Firefox, but it's too Emacs-centric (vim person here) and also disables tabs (or maybe it's me -- I couldn't get them to work). Try www-client/dillo , it's very lightweight and has tab support. It's what various livecd's use, like Insert Linux (http://www.inside-security.de/insert_en.html). It's quite nice, the menus and toolbars take up very little space. Any other tips or nifty programs you could link me to would be greatly appreciated, especially Ratpoison-related; For instance, C-t is too RSI-prone for my taste and conflicts with Firefox's new tab button (I want to switch, but I realise fx could prove irreplaceable, mainly due to the large userbase). I've never tried Ratpoison, but on my lower-power systems I use xfce, which isn't too bad. If I want to really minimize resource usage I go with Windowmaker. Thanks in advance, Vlad HTH, PaulNM -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
