[geo] RE: Researchers explore new method for glacial melt reduction

[SALTER Stephen]

Hi All
I can see that this would reduce melting in summer but what does it do about 
refreezing in winter? They mention only 24 June to 28 August. It would be a 
pain to have to lay cleaned material again every year.  We want to do more that 
just a ski slope.
(I hate strangling babies).
Stephen

From: healthy-planet-action-coalit...@googlegroups.com 
 On Behalf Of Renaud de 
RICHTER
Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2022 11:30 AM
To: geoengineering ; 
healthy-planet-action-coalition 
; John Nissen 

Subject: Researchers explore new method for glacial melt reduction

This email was sent to you by someone outside the University.
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phys.org /news/2022-06-explore-method-glacial-reduction.html 

Researchers explore new method for glacial melt reduction

[Image removed by sender.]

June 17, 2022

by Chinese Academy of Sciences
Ortho-mosaic on 28 August 2021 (left panel), hillshade generated from the DEM 
on 28 August 2021 (middle panel), and changes in elevation between 24 June and 
28 August 2021 (right panel). Glacier ablation was monitored using ablation 
stakes (S1–S3). Credit: Wang Feiteng

Glaciers are experiencing fast and significant changes under global warming. 
Glacier shrinkage significantly impacts global sea level, regional water 
cycles, ecosystems, and natural hazards.

Many studies have considered glacier changes and the mechanisms driving such 
changes. However, few studies have focused on mitigating glacier ablation.

Recently, a research team from the Northwest Institute of Eco-Environment and 
Resources of the Chinese Academy of Sciences conducted the evaluation of 
glacier cover efficiency for melt reduction on the Urumqi Glacier No. 1, Tien 
Shan, China.

Their results were published in Remote Sensing.

By combining two high-resolution digital elevation models derived from 
terrestrial laser scanning and unmanned aerial vehicles, albedo, and 
meteorological data, the 
researchers quantified the glacier ablation mitigation under three different 
cover materials.

The results showed that material-covered areas could slow down glacier melting 
by approximately 29–56% compared with uncovered areas. The researchers also 
found that the nanofiber material showed higher efficiency (56%) than the 
geotextiles used in the experiment.

The method of artificial reduction of glacial ice melt provides a scientific 
and practical basis for decision-making on mitigating and adapting to climate 
change.


More information: Shuangshuang Liu et al, Quantifying the Artificial Reduction 
of Glacial Ice Melt in a Mountain Glacier (Urumqi Glacier No. 1, Tien Shan, 
China), Remote Sensing (2022). DOI: 
10.3390/rs14122802
Provided by Chinese Academy of 
Sciences
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RE: [geo] RE: Carbon Dioxide Is a Pollutant. Please Help Establish That Fact.

[SALTER Stephen]

Hi John
That is good to know.  I had heard that greenhouse owners thought it useful to 
increase CO2.  I expect that they would also be adding other stuff.  But the 
question I wanted people to think about was having CO2 levels below 
preindustrial.
Stephen

From: John Harte 
Sent: Friday, June 17, 2022 5:42 PM
To: SALTER Stephen 
Cc: Renaud de RICHTER ; 
healthy-planet-action-coalition 
; Healthy Climate Alliance 
; Healthy Climate Initiative 
; geoengineering@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [geo] RE: Carbon Dioxide Is a Pollutant. Please Help Establish 
That Fact.

This email was sent to you by someone outside the University.
You should only click on links or attachments if you are certain that the email 
is genuine and the content is safe.
Actually people have “consulted the vegetables” about this.  Carefully 
controlled CO2 manipulation experiments generally reveal that when plants are 
subjected to higher CO2 levels, with everything else, including water, N, and 
P, remaining at ambient levels, then either the C:N ratio of plant tissue 
increases and as a result herbivory increases so that herbivores can get their 
needed nitrogen, or not much at all happens because of water limitation.  In 
both cases there is little or no net increase in production.

There are of course circumstances in which increasing CO2 can augment 
production but they are unlikely to be found in the real world, especially in a 
world in which water supply has been altered by the climate effects of 
increasing CO2.


John Harte
Distinguished Professor of the
Graduate School
Ecosystem Sciences
ERG/ESPM
University of California
Berkeley, CA 94720
jha...@berkeley.edu<mailto:jha...@berkeley.edu>










On Jun 17, 2022, at 9:31 AM, SALTER Stephen 
mailto:s.sal...@ed.ac.uk>> wrote:

Hi All
Has anybody consulted the vegetables about carbon dioxide being a pollutant?  
Some of my best food . . .
Stephen

From: 
healthy-planet-action-coalit...@googlegroups.com<mailto:healthy-planet-action-coalit...@googlegroups.com>
 
mailto:healthy-planet-action-coalit...@googlegroups.com>>
 On Behalf Of Renaud de RICHTER
Sent: Friday, June 17, 2022 4:25 PM
To: healthy-planet-action-coalition 
mailto:healthy-planet-action-coalit...@googlegroups.com>>;
 Healthy Climate Alliance 
mailto:healthy-climate-allia...@googlegroups.com>>;
 Healthy Climate Initiative 
mailto:healthy-climate-initiat...@googlegroups.com>>
Subject: Carbon Dioxide Is a Pollutant. Please Help Establish That Fact.

This email was sent to you by someone outside the University.
You should only click on links or attachments if you are certain that the email 
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Greenhouse gases must be legally phased out, US scientists argue
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/16/greenhouse-gases-must-be-legally-phased-out-us-scientists-argue

You can sign the petition
https://cprclimate.org/about/actions-campaigns/petition-to-epa/

-- Forwarded message -
De : James Hansen mailto:jimehan...@gmail.com>>
Date: ven. 17 juin 2022 à 16:53
Subject: Carbon Dioxide Is a Pollutant. Please Help Establish That Fact.

View this email in your 
browser<https://mailchi.mp/caa/carbon-dioxide-is-a-pollutant-please-help-establish-that-fact?e=bee29348b6>

A PDF of this Communication is available on my 
webpage<https://columbia.us1.list-manage.com/track/click?u=0ebaeb14fdbf5dc65289113c1=4b161c144d=bee29348b6>,
 along with prior Communications and other resources.

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Fig. 1.  Global surface temperature relative to 1880-1920 mean.


 Carbon Dioxide Is a Pollutant. Please Help Establish That Fact.

May 2022 Temperature Update

17 June 2022
James Hansen, Makiko Sato and Reto Ruedy

CO2 fits perfectly EPA’s definition of a chemical substance that presents “an 
unreasonable risk of injury to health or the environment.” Congress, with 
strong bipartisan agreement, established the Toxic Substances Control Act 
(TSCA; acronym pronounced tosca) in 1976 and – with bipartisan support again – 
strengthened the law in 2016. This law has been used successfully to phase out 
or reduce many substances, including asbestos, lead in paint, PC

[geo] RE: Carbon Dioxide Is a Pollutant. Please Help Establish That Fact.

[SALTER Stephen]

Hi All
Has anybody consulted the vegetables about carbon dioxide being a pollutant?  
Some of my best food . . .
Stephen

From: healthy-planet-action-coalit...@googlegroups.com 
 On Behalf Of Renaud de 
RICHTER
Sent: Friday, June 17, 2022 4:25 PM
To: healthy-planet-action-coalition 
; Healthy Climate Alliance 
; Healthy Climate Initiative 

Subject: Carbon Dioxide Is a Pollutant. Please Help Establish That Fact.

This email was sent to you by someone outside the University.
You should only click on links or attachments if you are certain that the email 
is genuine and the content is safe.
Greenhouse gases must be legally phased out, US scientists argue
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/16/greenhouse-gases-must-be-legally-phased-out-us-scientists-argue

You can sign the petition
https://cprclimate.org/about/actions-campaigns/petition-to-epa/

-- Forwarded message -
De : James Hansen mailto:jimehan...@gmail.com>>
Date: ven. 17 juin 2022 à 16:53
Subject: Carbon Dioxide Is a Pollutant. Please Help Establish That Fact.

View this email in your 
browser

A PDF of this Communication is available on my 
webpage,
 along with prior Communications and other resources.

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followers]
Tweet to your 
followers

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Share on your 
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Fig. 1.  Global surface temperature relative to 1880-1920 mean.


 Carbon Dioxide Is a Pollutant. Please Help Establish That Fact.

May 2022 Temperature Update

17 June 2022
James Hansen, Makiko Sato and Reto Ruedy

CO2 fits perfectly EPA’s definition of a chemical substance that presents “an 
unreasonable risk of injury to health or the environment.” Congress, with 
strong bipartisan agreement, established the Toxic Substances Control Act 
(TSCA; acronym pronounced tosca) in 1976 and – with bipartisan support again – 
strengthened the law in 2016. This law has been used successfully to phase out 
or reduce many substances, including asbestos, lead in paint, PCBs, and 
CFCs[1]. EPA has broad latitude in how to achieve reductions and can work with 
other agencies for that purpose.

Citizens may petition EPA on the need to address a pollutant under TSCA. EPA 
must respond to a petition within 90 days. Yesterday several of us[a] delivered 
to EPA a petition[2] for phase out of greenhouse gas (GHG) pollution to restore 
a stable and healthy climate. The prospects for EPA to accept their obligation 
will be much improved if we can present them with an impressive list of 
endorsers of the petition. Please examine the petition and consider adding your 
name as an endorser of the 
petition.
 United States citizens are especially relevant as endorsers, but there is also 
value in support of world citizens for what is a global problem.

Fig. 1, our global temperature update, is a reminder that the world is headed 
inexorably toward hotter conditions, as the cooling effect of the current 
strong La Nina barely got global temperature down to the increasing trendline 
of global temperature. The 12-month running-mean temperature is already heading 
toward the next global record that will occur in conjunction with the next El 
Nino.[3]



[a] Dan Galpern (Hansen’s long-time attorney, who worked for months on this 
petition), Donn Vivianni (retired EPA scientist who alerted us to the TSCA 
potential for greenhouse gases), Lisa Van Susteren (physician, writer and 
world’s leading authority on the psychiatric effects on young people of daily 
news about growing climate impacts while adults do little to alter the course), 
and atmospheric chemist John Birks, and Hansen. (Co-petitioner climate 
accountability analyst Richard Heede could not be present for the delivery to 
EPA).

[Image removed by sender.]

Fig. 2. Cumulative 1751-2020 fossil fuel carbon emissions (tons C/person; 2020 
populations).  Horizontal lines are multiples of the global mean. The order of 
individual nations 

[geo] Net how much?

[SALTER Stephen]

Hi All
Below is information from the International Energy Agency to say that the 
output of refinery products increased 7.4 % to March 2022.
Some of it will not end up as CO2.
Stephen


From: IEA S
statistics 
Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2022 3:01 PM
To: SALTER Stephen 
Subject: Release of Monthly Oil Statistics

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https://www.ukri.org/news/118m-to-accelerate-uk-bright-ideas-into-global-opportunities/?utm_medium=email_source=govdelivery

Monthly Oil Statistics

The latest IEA's Monthly Oil Statistics report including March 2022 data shows 
that for Total OECD:

  *   Total OECD production of crude oil, NGL and refinery feedstocks 
increased by 3.0% in March 2022 compared to March 2021.
  *   Refinery gross output of total products grew by 7.4% on a 
year-on-year basis.
  *   Net deliveries of total products grew in March 2022 compared to 
March 2021 (+4.0% y-o-y).
  *   Oil stock levels on national territory decreased by 4363 kt in 
March 2022 compared to the closing stock levels in February 2022 and closed at 
487 million metric tons.

https://www.ukri.org/news/118m-to-accelerate-uk-bright-ideas-into-global-opportunities/?utm_medium=email_source=govdelivery


The IEA's Monthly Oil 
Statistics<http://url8901.iea.org/ls/click?upn=O3sgIkEtoYfYHGtTbxLOjnWnaoEjrYX8W-2BhFV-2BcAZuqzH77auTkO-2Bc3MqwSWlW-2Bi2jct2Unc1oPB3y7tu7tw2j06js2yM1Zkpeh2xgdgiPh-2BVNw1hecXpE-2FafGj0JkQb9qdfQ1-2FITHBaXgGXmqS-2FKkYZFQytT-2BzpwYY1pXszXYloHPDLuNgcHAcyUiAMS7rOc-2FRb4J7hUqyhmG5NT2ifMQ-3D-3D1Jjv_SsgMA5QTaIbpA8p44V0-2ByOTbmlj2M-2FiCATtdUp6wTgymHKFcrdAFCyzvp64v59m5ZOkg9bZvDaLn3GtRZsL3GghpByaSDnXk-2Fq-2ByMGGMCRqBxPk51lxdaOa-2Bggc1H8-2B44I495lQoiBTjilHfo8pnjjDLcd4NMYfI3b-2B3pVYem7ZxPxSUFOQ5x-2FFVSAoTGONKEjwfFUYk92u91YctUKZIq9ZnuezmlCbiaGCWTNWbsG4fYm-2FhkMCqQJqu6I8iOrTp4sVivJrIGmpOCDbVkHJ7RFJXwRS2UUHGxWuVHiR-2BuxAVAIvb9SmN5eoWT1yQXkVcimAqTv9jSMQ5ti8LyT25N-2FMqh6COyDt-2BENFScxhUDEQbSzBzYuBQPpGsSY2lg-2BLp99l0OHdzdYVwPwhSEyiC3iODKGcPzaF8p82SMnq3Uu0-3D>
 features oil production for all OECD member countries, imports, exports, 
refinery outputs, net deliveries for major product categories for all OECD 
regions. The publication also includes total oil stock levels and stock changes 
for major product categories for all OECD Member countries. The latest dataset 
is available below in PDF, Excel or CSV.

We have now moved to a new integrated platform and in order to access data, all 
users will need to login using their IEA account. If you would like to access 
the data, please create your IEA account on this 
page<http://url8901.iea.org/ls/click?upn=O3sgIkEtoYfYHGtTbxLOjkbvHA6lXYbkIj-2BCP-2BVOciQLIkIE8aOzjC1xce9ClyyS-2FkyAH2hh5S6cKgPA-2BfjPueuH7liiH9GstnHvrTceae7yQnFdgo2fQ-2Foge-2FUyGQgMGq1vldI0hNxr3bwYvK5Kvw-3D-3DpvHe_SsgMA5QTaIbpA8p44V0-2ByOTbmlj2M-2FiCATtdUp6wTgymHKFcrdAFCyzvp64v59m5ZOkg9bZvDaLn3GtRZsL3GghpByaSDnXk-2Fq-2ByMGGMCRqBxPk51lxdaOa-2Bggc1H8-2B44I495lQoiBTjilHfo8pnjjDLcd4NMYfI3b-2B3pVYem7ZxPxSUFOQ5x-2FFVSAoTGONKEjwfFUYk92u91YctUKZIq9ZnuezmlCbiaGCWTNWbsG5oTDBKiHUc0phvjai8xH3boB7Nt0knobKEhCNUOoAE-2Bg65TVj96tAKs-2FG2MahdRTERrTQqcd3Bwo8cnllKFFmmZ3j85hOm6ovBNKqTsAzmbLkpC2lsX9njrFog3B0fqj8qvUlJ6ZvjI-2FQQ2g0w7kZiyev0S84j9y5J4x-2BXSCY2oY5865pRZ78Cu2w9MaKJYTM-3D>.
 Once you are logged in, you can download the dataset 
here<http://url8901.iea.org/ls/click?upn=O3sgIkEtoYfYHGtTbxLOjnWnaoEjrYX8W-2BhFV-2BcAZuqzH77auTkO-2Bc3MqwSWlW-2Bi2jct2Unc1oPB3y7tu7tw2j06js2yM1Zkpeh2xgdgiPh-2BVNw1hecXpE-2FafGj0JkQb9qdfQ1-2FITHBaXgGXmqS-2FKkYZFQytT-2BzpwYY1pXszXYloHPDLuNgcHAcyUiAMS7rOc-2FRb4J7hUqyhmG5NT2ifMQ-3D-3Dp-Zl_SsgMA5QTaIbpA8p44V0-2ByOTbmlj2M-2FiCATtdUp6wTgymHKFcrdAFCyzvp64v59m5ZOkg9bZvDaLn3GtRZsL3GghpByaSDnXk-2Fq-2ByMGGMCRqBxPk51lxdaOa-2Bggc1H8-2B44I495lQoiBTjilHfo8pnjjDLcd4NMYfI3b-2B3pVYem7ZxPxSUFOQ5x-2FFVSAoTGONKEjwfFUYk92u91YctUKZIq9ZnuezmlCbiaGCWTNWbsG7a0oVfDLXHdNny4UtVPbPViVFrughoTINJ6W2tcdrt-2BsqwfEmgwij2OHESQkjp-2Bg5ju6-2F7zAMpmFTv760syAO-2Bkx73zaDmtjW-2FezgmxHDton3vZt0rX-2FQZQ142870RkFJgKzyKOoKpGkvJm8RlTqOCtFvARNfjYMjhu-2BoHglzqJOcvfhvFYSouSYST2KY5v20-3D>.

For more information on energy statistics, visit:

  *   Oil 
statistics<http://url8901.iea.org/ls/click?upn=O3sgIkEtoYfYHGtTbxLOjnWnaoEjrYX8W-2BhFV-2BcAZuqzH77auTkO-2Bc3MqwSWlW-2BiNKi-2F2ukPtFhbeYty4lVDvcpLT19a2q1En1XSZ5E-2FhRu5RZcEOba1SvtZnyLhSffJ56OC3ZRYPWdiy2QcVTDjlgDHnETSfSj8iRssWB2psBhs2HuhGNO-2FavNEC5QxxroqAVuG_SsgMA5QTaIbpA8p44V0-2ByOTbmlj2M-2FiCATtdUp6wTgymHKFcrdAFCyzvp64v59m5ZOkg9bZvDaLn3GtRZsL3GghpByaSDnXk-2Fq-2ByMGGMCRqBxPk51lxdaOa-2Bggc1H8-2B44I495lQoiBTjilHfo8pnjjDLcd4NMYfI3b-2B3pVYem7ZxPxSUFOQ5x-2FFVSAoTGONKEjwfFUYk92u91YctUKZIq9ZnuezmlCbiaGCWTNWbsG6p7-2FP2wIm-2FVtS0vnJ8g-2BUYuaK5raCIr4NM4fR2uy01v5vnlDZxYWWtqAqix7wE7qJdI1UOE1udRmSTKiRf3jclMgRFAlac6-2BR-2FBed-2F1qfBYP6WAAdLBMGfM9Blt8ptCuHUz3VHXzvHTgNbdNb-2FlLqU11f0nbYvB6n3u9ZEp6f5m1704mNYnIf01PJMoOQl

[geo] RE: articles

[SALTER Stephen]

Hi All
I am forwarding this thread to  BEIS,  UK Government Department in charge of 
climate matters.  I used to send  preprints and a selection of important 
results to David Mackay  the Chief Scientist at DECC the previous Department in 
charge.  He really understood the science and engineering of the issue and made 
useful contributions.  I even got two mentions in his excellent book on 
renewable energy.   But when climate responsibility was transferred to BEIS I 
was ticked off for writing to individuals and threatened with blacklisting if I 
continued to do so.  You now have to write to 
enquir...@beis.gov.uk.  They used to send back an 
email to say that they hoped to reply within 15 days but no longer do this, at 
least to emails from me.
I have come to the conclusion that they mainly want to escape future blame when 
awful things happen and will just pass the blame on to IPCC.  If this is wrong 
I hope that they will reply and tell us about all the important work they have 
done.

Stephen Salter
Emeritus Professor of Engineering Design
School of Engineering
Mayfield Road
Edinburgh EH9 3DW
0131 650 5704
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-0h14RFq4M=155s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BBVTStBrhw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBB6WtH_Ni8



From: healthy-planet-action-coalit...@googlegroups.com 
 On Behalf Of Fulya Sari
Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2022 4:37 PM
To: Tom Goreau 
Cc: John Nissen ; Shaun D Fitzgerald 
; noac-meeti...@googlegroups.com; Planetary Restoration 
; healthy-planet-action-coalition 

Subject: Re: articles

This email was sent to you by someone outside the University.
You should only click on links or attachments if you are certain that the email 
is genuine and the content is safe.
Greetings..

I agree with you Tom Goreau..

Can we say that governments and their information gathering systems have 
built-in 'values'!, judgement scales, 'tuning in apparatus', amplifiers, 
silencers etc., installed in their systems and their uses are prescribed by 
individual, political goals and 'benefits' etc.,
There is no way that any input provided to them will reach or heard by them 
unaffectedly. Their job definitions and how they get actualized don't allow it 
either.
Therefore, even with the best intentions and highest level 'honesty 
aspirations'! the picture does not look promising.

Plus.. very sadly.. I believe it is an international phenomenon.. only little 
more or less in different countries.

Sorry for the grim perspective but it is my honest opinion..

Best,

Fulya



On Sun, May 22, 2022 at 5:43 PM Tom Goreau 
mailto:gor...@globalcoral.org>> wrote:
You say: governments are being misinformed

It’s not that Governments are being misinformed, they are getting accurate 
advice along with vast amounts of bogus advice and noise, and they can’t tell 
the difference!

But even if they could, and had a genuine long term perspective, they would 
refuse to listen to Jim Hansen or any of the rest of us because it’s all about 
covering their assets in fossil-fueled business as usual, and to them $$$ talk 
louder than words about reality as they gamble away the future.

From: 
healthy-planet-action-coalit...@googlegroups.com
 
mailto:healthy-planet-action-coalit...@googlegroups.com>>
 on behalf of John Nissen 
mailto:johnnissen2...@gmail.com>>
Date: Sunday, May 22, 2022 at 10:26 AM
To: Shaun D Fitzgerald mailto:sd...@cam.ac.uk>>
Cc: noac-meeti...@googlegroups.com 
mailto:noac-meeti...@googlegroups.com>>, 
Planetary Restoration 
mailto:planetary-restorat...@googlegroups.com>>,
 healthy-planet-action-coalition 
mailto:healthy-planet-action-coalit...@googlegroups.com>>
Subject: Re: articles
Hi Shaun,

Thanks for drawing my attention to the WMO announcements.  There is no hiding 
the fact of a climate emergency.  But there are no signs that it is being 
tackled effectively; and there seems to be an element of defeatism, if you ask 
me.

This article [1] contains a statement by Professor Petteri Taalas, 
Secretary-General of WMO, which I find defeatist.  Saying that global warming 
is set to continue warming the planet for generations is defeatist, since it 
denies the possibility of removing CO2 from the atmosphere and suppressing 
other GHGs.  Saying that glaciers have reached a point of no return is 
defeatist, since it denies the possibility of cooling the cryosphere.  Allowing 
extreme weather to get worse is defeatist, since cooling the Arctic could 
reverse the trend.  Allowing sea level to rise ever faster is defeatist, since 
the rate of sea level rise could be reduced to the average of the 20th century: 
2 cm per decade.  Nothing that the UN, IPCC, WMO or other bodies have said 
admits the possibility of intervention to reverse climate change and slow the 
rate of sea level rise.  The possibility of planetary restoration has not yet 
been recognised, let alone been 

RE: [geo] Re: [CDR] The Hill article on Ocean Pasture Restoration

[SALTER Stephen]

Renaud
My limited engineer’s understanding of the monsoons is that some of the air 
reaching the continent during the summer monsoon will have blown over the 
Indian Ocean and that the strength of the monsoon depends on the ocean-to-land 
temperature difference.  If this ocean air had been cooled by marine cloud 
brightening then it should help reduce temperatures. Perhaps a monsoon expert 
could advise.
Has there been any suggestive recent change in temperatures or temperature 
gradients over the Indian ocean?
Has anyone run climate models of the effects of marine cloud brightening at 
various seasons?
Getting an everywhere-to-everywhere, season-by-season transfer-function of 
marine cloud brightening using the coded-modulation technique tested by Parkes 
and Gadian (but so far, nobody else) might help.
Stephen

From: Renaud de RICHTER 
Sent: Monday, May 16, 2022 2:33 PM
To: SALTER Stephen 
Subject: Fwd: [geo] Re: [CDR] The Hill article on Ocean Pasture Restoration

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Can MCB help people over the continent?
https://theconversation.com/a-climate-scientist-on-india-and-pakistans-horror-heatwave-and-the-surprising-consequences-of-better-air-quality-182516

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RE: [geo] Emission reduction remains public’s preferred approach to climate change

[SALTER Stephen]

Hi All
Zero change in mean temperature change but wild extremes such at the recent 
Texas winter and +38 C in Siberia might indeed be undesirable.  However if I 
had to pick groups of people to undergo this . . .
Stephen


From: geoengineering@googlegroups.com  On 
Behalf Of Michael MacCracken
Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2022 4:32 PM
To: rob...@envsci.rutgers.edu; Geoengineering 
Subject: Re: [geo] Emission reduction remains public’s preferred approach to 
climate change

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While mitigation is commendable and essential, a major problem with this view 
is that it is rather unlikely that emissions can be reduced rapidly enough to 
keep the increase in global average temperature (a very innocuous metric for 
the situation that will result) below 2 C, or much more realistically, given 
the challenges ahead, of 3 C. In either case, the result is very likely to be 
catastrophic consequences with respect to extreme events, sea level rise and 
biodiversity loss, among many other impacts.

Mike MacCracken


On 5/11/22 9:39 AM, Alan Robock ☮ wrote:
https://www.brookings.edu/blog/fixgov/2022/05/10/emission-reduction-remains-publics-preferred-approach-to-climate-change/

Emission reduction remains public’s preferred approach to climate change
by Barry G. Rabe and Christopher Borick

"Americans continue to favor reducing greenhouse gas emissions as their 
preferred approach for staving off the worst impacts of climate change, 
according to new public opinion findings. The public remains considerably more 
skeptical of any pivot from mitigation toward climate policy that prioritizes 
adaptation, use of geoengineering that releases particles into the atmosphere 
in attempting to deter warming, or subterranean carbon storage. These findings 
emerge from the Winter 2022 National Surveys on Energy and Environment (NSEE). 
..."
--

Alan Robock

Alan Robock, Distinguished Professor
Department of Environmental Sciences Phone: +1-848-932-5751
Rutgers UniversityE-mail: 
rob...@envsci.rutgers.edu
14 College Farm Roadhttp://people.envsci.rutgers.edu/robock
New Brunswick, NJ 08901-8551 ☮ https://twitter.com/AlanRobock

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RE: [geo] Emission reduction remains public’s preferred approach to climate change

[SALTER Stephen]

Hi All
Americans are in love with six-shooters to their dying breath. Who made them 
think we are allowed only one climate solution?
Did they know how many salt particles of a wide range of sizes are already 
being released into the environment from breaking waves on beaches?
Stephen

From: geoengineering@googlegroups.com  On 
Behalf Of Alan Robock ?
Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2022 2:39 PM
To: Geoengineering 
Subject: [geo] Emission reduction remains public’s preferred approach to 
climate change

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You should only click on links or attachments if you are certain that the email 
is genuine and the content is safe.
https://www.brookings.edu/blog/fixgov/2022/05/10/emission-reduction-remains-publics-preferred-approach-to-climate-change/

Emission reduction remains public’s preferred approach to climate change
by Barry G. Rabe and Christopher Borick

"Americans continue to favor reducing greenhouse gas emissions as their 
preferred approach for staving off the worst impacts of climate change, 
according to new public opinion findings. The public remains considerably more 
skeptical of any pivot from mitigation toward climate policy that prioritizes 
adaptation, use of geoengineering that releases particles into the atmosphere 
in attempting to deter warming, or subterranean carbon storage. These findings 
emerge from the Winter 2022 National Surveys on Energy and Environment (NSEE). 
..."
--

Alan Robock

Alan Robock, Distinguished Professor
Department of Environmental Sciences Phone: +1-848-932-5751
Rutgers UniversityE-mail: 
rob...@envsci.rutgers.edu
14 College Farm Roadhttp://people.envsci.rutgers.edu/robock
New Brunswick, NJ 08901-8551 ☮ https://twitter.com/AlanRobock

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RE: [geo] Mark Twain was the first geoengineer

[SALTER Stephen]

Jim
Tilting the earth’s axis back to the angle it should have been if properly 
constructed would save a great deal of energy for heating and air-conditioning 
but anything proposed by a gun club sounds rather energy intensive.  A better 
way would be to set up a standing wave pattern called a seich in a sea region 
running north and south with a period of 24 hours.  The Adriatic looks 
promising.  We would need a reflecting wall at one end and a line of 
energy-absorbing and recycling wave-makers at the other.  With deep water and 
no wave breaking the system is quite efficient.  It would take quite a while 
but this would give time for people to decide on the best angle. Once you get 
it going it takes little extra energy to overcome losses.
Stephen


From: geoengineering@googlegroups.com  On 
Behalf Of Jim Fleming
Sent: Friday, May 6, 2022 5:07 PM
To: Alan Robock 
Cc: olivier boucher ; geoengineering 

Subject: Re: [geo] Mark Twain was the first geoengineer

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Thanks for the kind acknowledgment Alan.
I told Oliver Boucher there are more geo-engineering science fiction vignettes 
he could use from my 2010 book, Fixing the Sky. One example is Jules Verne, 
Sans Dessus Dessous, published in 1889 and appearing simultaneously in English 
as The Purchase of the North Pole. The Baltimore Gun Club attempts to change 
the Earth's tilt, for profit.



Best regards,

Jim



On Fri, May 6, 2022 at 11:45 AM Alan Robock ☮ 
mailto:rob...@envsci.rutgers.edu>> wrote:
Dear Olivier,

First I want to apologize to Jim Fleming.  He pointed out to me that he 
discusses the same passages of American Claimant is his wonderful 2010 book 
Fixing the Sky (which all of you must have read already, and if not, you need 
to read) on pp. 27-30.  So although I had forgotten that I read it (I'm old), 
it must have still been stuck in my brain somewhere.  Nevertheless, I did 
really rediscover it by reading the book, and it is still worth reminding us 
all of it.

Second, the part about geoengineering is in the main text of  American 
Claimant, at the end.  And for the first part, I tried Google Translate?  How 
did they do?

Aucune météo ne sera trouvée dans ce livre. Il s'agit d'une tentative de tirer 
un livre sans temps. Il s'agit de la première tentative du genre dans la 
littérature fictive, cela peut s'avérer un échec, mais cela a semblé valoir la 
peine pour un casse-cou de l'essayer, et l'auteur était juste d'humeur. 
Beaucoup de lecteurs qui voulaient lire un conte jusqu'au bout n'ont pas pu le 
faire en raison de retards dus au temps. Rien ne brise les progrès d'un auteur 
comme devoir s'arrêter toutes les quelques pages pour perturber la météo. 
Ainsi, il est clair que les intrusions persistantes du temps sont mauvaises à 
la fois pour le lecteur et pour l'auteur. Bien sûr, le temps est nécessaire à 
un récit de l'expérience humaine. Cela est concédé. Mais il doit être placé là 
où il ne gênera pas; où il n'interrompra pas le flux du récit. Et ce devrait 
être la meilleure météo qui soit, et non une météo amateur ignorante et de 
mauvaise qualité. La météo est une spécialité littéraire, et aucune main 
inexpérimentée ne peut en faire un bon article. Le présent auteur ne peut faire 
que quelques insignifiants genres ordinaires de temps, et il ne peut pas faire 
ceux qui sont très bons. Il a donc semblé plus sage d'emprunter la météo 
nécessaire à l'ouvrage à des experts qualifiés et reconnus, bien entendu. Cette 
météo se trouvera dans la partie arrière du livre, à l'écart. Voir l'annexe. Le 
lecteur est prié de se retourner et de se servir de temps en temps au fur et à 
mesure de son cheminement.

Alan

On 5/6/2022 6:13 AM, olivier boucher wrote:
Hi Alan,
It would be a nice fit to our "le temps des écrivains" section of our 
three-monthly meteorological journal.
See an example here: https://lameteorologie.fr/issues/2017/98/meteo_2017_98_52  
The section reproduces selected writings on the weather.
I checked and there is a French translation of the American Claimant, 
unfortunately the foreword and annex were not translated at the time.
All the best,
Olivier


De: "Alan Robock" 
À: "geoengineering" 

Envoyé: Jeudi 5 Mai 2022 22:07:28
Objet: [geo] Mark Twain was the first geoengineer

Dear All,

In these days with so much troubling news in the air, I thought some humor 
would help.

It turns out that Mark Twain was the first geoengineer, as explained in his 
book American Claimant, written in 1891.  After beginning the book with this 
hilarious explanation about weather,

“No weather will be found in this book. This is an attempt to pull a book 
through without weather. It being the first attempt of the kind in fictitious 
literature, it may prove a 

[geo] Ice loss

[SALTER Stephen]

Please check out

https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.1029/2021GL097595

about the alarming increase in the rate of loss of multi-year ice in the Arctic.

Key Points:


  1.  MYI area loss in the Beaufort Sea quadrupled from 46,000 km2yr-1in 
1997-2001 to 183,000 km2yr-1in 2017-2021.


  1.  MYI area loss peaked at 385,000 km2in 2018, which is close to the annual 
MYI area export through Fram Strait.


  1.  The Beaufort Sea has become a MYI export pathway rivaling Fram Strait, 
encouraging the transition to a seasonal Arctic sea ice cover.

Stephen Salter
Emeritus Professor of Engineering Design
School of Engineering
Mayfield Road
Edinburgh EH9 3DW
0131 650 5704
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-0h14RFq4M=155s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BBVTStBrhw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBB6WtH_Ni8

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[geo] RE: RECENTLY PUBLISHED | The Carnegie Climate Governance Initiative's Latest Knowledge Products

[SALTER Stephen]

Hi All

Can anyone point me to a dedicated, formal, international group for the 
governance of the release of CO2, methane and nitrous gases?

Stephen

From: geoengineering@googlegroups.com  On 
Behalf Of Anita Nzeh
Sent: Friday, April 8, 2022 1:26 PM
To: Geoengineering@googlegroups.com
Subject: [geo] RECENTLY PUBLISHED | The Carnegie Climate Governance 
Initiative's Latest Knowledge Products

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Dear colleagues,

New C2G Briefing Note | Solar Radiation Modification in the IPCC Working Group 
III Report




On April 4, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) released its 
Working Group III 
report 
which addresses the mitigation of climate change. In addition to the report’s 
primary focus on emissions reductions, carbon dioxide removal (CDR) and solar 
radiation modification (SRM) are also assessed.

This new C2G briefing note identifies where SRM and 
its governance is addressed in the report and explores what the potential 
policy implications might be. You can read C2G’s briefing notes on all three 
Working Group reports (including versions in 中文 
Español, and 
Français) by visiting our dedicated IPCC 
webpage.

Read


Report Solar Radiation Modification: Governance Gaps and Challenges

New C2G Report

Faced with the increasing likelihood of overshooting 1.5C global warming, solar 
radiation modification is being explored as a potential approach to reduce 
climate change impacts in addition to emissions reductions, removals, and 
adaptation.

The IPCC’s recent Working Group II report 
 
highlights that there is currently no dedicated, formal international 
governance for research, development, demonstration, or deployment of solar 
radiation modification. So what exactly are the governance gaps and challenges 
surrounding this emerging climate-altering approach? And how might they be 
addressed?

In a new report  commissioned and published by C2G, 
expert international authors provide an overview of the current governance gaps 
and challenges around solar radiation modification. The report sets out some of 
the key governance dimensions relating to research and potential use, 
summarizes existing governance, and identifies remaining gaps.

The report provides a comprehensive overview of governance gaps and challenges, 
based on the most recent research evidence. The 
summary of the report’s key insights is also 
available in 中文, 
Français, and 
Español.

Read




===
Anita Nzeh
Knowledge Management Officer
Carnegie Climate Governance Initiative (C2G)
London, United Kingdom
Email: an...@c2g2.net | Mobile: +447885910181 | Twitter: 
Anitatriple7 | Skype: Anita Nzeh
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www.c2g2.net
Follow C2G on
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[geo] IPCC

[SALTER Stephen]

Hi all

IPCC release meeting is at  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STFoSxqFQXU

Stephen Salter
Emeritus Professor of Engineering Design
School of Engineering
Mayfield Road
Edinburgh EH9 3DW
0131 650 5704
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-0h14RFq4M=155s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BBVTStBrhw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBB6WtH_Ni8

The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in Scotland, with 
registration number SC005336. Is e buidheann carthannais a th' ann an Oilthigh 
Dh?n ?ideann, cl?raichte an Alba, ?ireamh cl?raidh SC005336.

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[geo] RE: Marine Cloud Brightening for the Southern Ocean

[SALTER Stephen]

Hi All

Ye gives welcome and rare support for work on marine cloud brightening but it 
is not quite accurate to say ‘real-time hurricane management’. If you want to 
moderate a hurricane tomorrow you are much too late.  You should have started 
last November and recorded the trajectory of sea surface temperatures along the 
path of the hurricane breeding oceans so as to get the pattern requested by 
Governments of hurricane affect countries in the spraying contract. You should 
aim to get this done by the start of the next hurricane season. Tropical storms 
provide useful rainfall so we should moderate rather than prevent. It would 
also be wise to avoid blame for the choice of temperature!
Ye is quite right to identify spray generation as a key problem.  Andreas 
Tsiamis has done a useful COMSOL multi-physics simulation of drop generation 
using the Stevenson sandwich nozzle design. He has numbers for pressure, drop 
frequency and drop diameter as a function of nozzle size. There were a small 
number of coalescence events leading to double-volume drops but these were 
removed with a one bar modulation at the drop frequency.  The results are in 
close agreement with the paper by van Hoeve at 
https://doi.org/10.1063/1.3524533. Camelia Dunare has used contact printing to 
etch the sandwich nozzles down to twice the diameter we need and is confident 
that the higher resolution of optical printing will get to the smaller nozzles 
needed. Engineering drawings for the housing of 200 mm are complete except for 
the high-frequency pressure excitation needed for mono-disperse spray and 
avoidance of the Aitken mode. The remaining problem is that while silicon has 
sufficient tensile stress it is also extremely notch sensitive. The 
instrumentation needed to measure spray size in the laboratory is quite 
expensive but we may be able to get access to the life savings of a gullible 
old-age pensioner. Drawings and design calculations for much of the rest of the 
vessel have reached the stage where they could go to potential sub-contractors.
Ye also mentions the intermittency of wind used for power generation.  Data 
from the trade-wind regions and southern oceans are encouraging and the sea is 
an excellent heat integrator.  We do not need exact day-by-day cooling.  We 
want a low dose over a wide area so changes of wind direction are welcome. It 
might be desirable to spray under clear skies into air masses which will later 
move to regions with higher relative humidity.  Being able to choose time and 
place (and stop at short notice) is welcome but cooling next week is soon 
enough.
It is unfortunate that ignorance of a new field is so often used as an argument 
to prevent funding of research that might remove that ignorance. Perhaps this 
is the result of career anxiety by timid administrators.

Breathe safely

Stephen Salter
Emeritus Professor of Engineering Design
School of Engineering
Mayfield Road
Edinburgh EH9 3DW
0131 650 5704
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-0h14RFq4M=155s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BBVTStBrhw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBB6WtH_Ni8



From: Ye Tao 
Sent: Friday, March 4, 2022 9:30 AM
To: Robert Tulip ; 'Planetary Restoration' 
; 'geoengineering' 
; 'healthy-planet-action-coalition' 
; 
hpac-steering-cir...@googlegroups.com; noac-meeti...@googlegroups.com; 'pfieko' 
; 'Ron Baiman' ; SALTER Stephen 
; 'Peter Wadhams' 
Subject: Re: Marine Cloud Brightening for the Southern Ocean

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Dear Robert,

Thanks for directing attention and effort to SRM, away from carbon capture 
fantasies that distract and harm.

I support funding MCB research of the wind-powered type proposed by Stephen.  
This is because MCB using fossil-fuel ships is counterproductive due to 
unsustainable fuel consumption requirements.  The chemically benign nature and 
better spatial resolution of sea salt MCB are a couple of the many important 
advantages over SAI.  Another important application is real-time flood and 
hurricane management, something no other SRM approach seems capable of.

A central challenge in the way to realizing Stephen's wind-powered proposal is 
the development of an energy-efficient system for seawater droplet production 
at the required monodispersity, sub-micron size, and flux.If these 
parameters cannot be simultaneously satisfied, several orders of magnitude 
increase in deployment energy and material costs would result.  So there is 
substantial uncertainty, after what will certainly be a multi-decade research 
program, on if such a system could be invented and developed.

Another challenge is wind intermittency and its high-frequency directional 
changes.  Their impact on the achievable duty cycle of a single vessel and the 
resulting areal coverage efficiency have not been taken into account in 
existing

RE: [geo] Re: Is Inadvertent "Reverse Geoengineering" since 2020 significantly warming the planet ?

[SALTER Stephen]

Hi All

The present environmental regulations for geoengineering (not totally ratified) 
were framed at a time when we were dumping nuclear waste, unexploded munitions 
and even poison gas into the sea.  They essentially meant ‘no new chemicals’.
Marine cloud brightening uses material that is already there and is already 
being thrown up in quantities hundreds of times greater by breaking waves. 
Energy comes from the wind so we are not even burning fuel. It would be an 
interesting legal exercise to separate spray vessels from paddling children 
splashing one another.
The difference is that the size of spray is carefully chosen to suit Köhler 
nucleation which also happens to be in the Greenfield gap where there is an 
abnormally low concentration of natural aerosol between Aitken and accumulation 
modes.We can choose exactly when and where we want to release spray. 
Initially this could be aimed at getting sea surface temperatures back to where 
they used to be.  However we may be able to learn to get an even more benign 
result to counteract hot blobs and El Niño events.  We can moderate hurricanes 
and typhoons, restore ice or coral and adjust the temperature gradient across 
the Indian Ocean.  Operating anywhere at any time will eventually (~30 years) 
reverse sea level rise with an enormous benefit-to-cost ratio.  Spray can be 
stopped with a single mouse click and the effects cancelled at the next rain 
shower.  Spraying can change results far from the spray release point, even in 
the opposite hemisphere, but we should be able to get an 
everywhere-to-everywhere season by season transfer function of what these 
distant results are and use them to advantage.

Breathe safely

Stephen Salter
Emeritus Professor of Engineering Design
School of Engineering
Mayfield Road
Edinburgh EH9 3DW
0131 650 5704
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-0h14RFq4M=155s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BBVTStBrhw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBB6WtH_Ni8



From: geoengineering@googlegroups.com  On 
Behalf Of Michael MacCracken
Sent: Thursday, March 3, 2022 1:49 PM
To: pfi...@gmail.com; Robbie Tulip 
Cc: Planetary Restoration ; Ron Baiman 
; Ye Tao ; geoengineering 
; healthy-planet-action-coalition 
; 
hpac-steering-cir...@googlegroups.com; noac-meeti...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [geo] Re: Is Inadvertent "Reverse Geoengineering" since 2020 
significantly warming the planet ?

This email was sent to you by someone outside the University.
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is genuine and the content is safe.

Just to note that way back in 2010 when we organized the Asilomar Conference on 
geoengineering, the State of Victoria in Australia was a co-sponsor of the 
meeting.

And just to note that it is really not clear that use of MCB to address some of 
the impacts affecting Australia (Great Barrier Reef, shifting of the storm 
track) might not have influences much further away than New Zealand and so not 
really clear would need full international participation in the primary 
analysis. So, yes, Australia could, in my view, well lead consideration on 
getting started on such an approach for certain types of applications.

Mike MacCracken


On 3/3/22 1:14 AM, Peter Fiekowsky wrote:
Now we’re acting!
Who would we propose it to? Said another way-Who would we invite to do that, 
whom we would support?
Peter
Sent from my iPhone


On Mar 2, 2022, at 9:03 PM, Robbie Tulip 
 wrote:

The Australian government could be invited to investigate international 
agreement for marine cloud brightening in the Southern Ocean to cool Antarctica.

On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 at 3:22 pm, Peter Fiekowsky 
mailto:pfi...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Robert-
It's one thing to be logically correct, and logically I and probably everyone 
on this list agrees with you that SRM right now would be smart, even moral.

I, and probably you and everyone on this list is working on this in order to 
leave a world our children and grandchildren can flourish in--obviously 
including our Holocene ecosystems.

As far as I can tell we've been in agreement for ten or fifteen years. Has that 
agreement changed the planet?
I'd say no. I don't think the physical world responds much to the brain 
patterns in my head, or the ones in your head which we call agreement.

What's needed is action that will restore the climate. Let's get action going. 
Physical action. How do we do that?

On Wed, Mar 2, 2022 at 7:22 PM Robbie Tulip 
mailto:robbietu...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Low albedo is dangerous and can only be mitigated by oceanic  and atmospheric 
technology. Solar radiation management systems are needed to increase planetary 
albedo and mitigate the economic and social and ecological harms of climate 
change by limiting extreme weather events. The benefits of regulating planetary 
weather far far outweigh the risks and costs of neglecting work to stabilise 
the climate. This is a major and serious moral problem 

[geo] RE: Marine Cloud Brightening

[SALTER Stephen]

Clive
Yes but if the life is shorter you need more aircraft.
Stephen

From: healthy-planet-action-coalit...@googlegroups.com 
 On Behalf Of Clive Elsworth
Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2022 12:35 PM
To: SALTER Stephen 
Cc: Ron Baiman ; Sev Clarke ; Peter 
Wadhams ; Chris Vivian ; 
H simmens ; John Nissen ; Robert 
Tulip ; geoengineering 
; Planetary Restoration 
; Shaun Fitzgerald ; 
Hugh.Hunt ; Daphne Wysham ; 
healthy-planet-action-coalition 
; Dermott Reilly 

Subject: RE: Marine Cloud Brightening

This email was sent to you by someone outside the University.
You should only click on links or attachments if you are certain that the email 
is genuine and the content is safe.
But John is saying they could cool the Arctic with SAI injected below the 
stratosphere.

On 30/01/2022 12:09 SALTER Stephen 
mailto:s.sal...@ed.ac.uk>> wrote:


Clive
There is not much rain in the stratosphere where SO2 will be injected.
Stephen.

From: 
healthy-planet-action-coalit...@googlegroups.com<mailto:healthy-planet-action-coalit...@googlegroups.com>
 
mailto:healthy-planet-action-coalit...@googlegroups.com>>
 On Behalf Of Clive Elsworth
Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2022 11:59 AM
To: SALTER Stephen mailto:s.sal...@ed.ac.uk>>
Cc: Ron Baiman mailto:rpbai...@gmail.com>>; Sev Clarke 
mailto:sevcla...@me.com>>; Peter Wadhams 
mailto:peter.wadh...@gmail.com>>; Chris Vivian 
mailto:chris.vivi...@btinternet.com>>; H simmens 
mailto:hsimm...@gmail.com>>; John Nissen 
mailto:johnnissen2...@gmail.com>>; Robert Tulip 
mailto:rtulip2...@yahoo.com.au>>; geoengineering 
mailto:geoengineering@googlegroups.com>>; 
Planetary Restoration 
mailto:planetary-restorat...@googlegroups.com>>;
 Shaun Fitzgerald mailto:sd...@cam.ac.uk>>; Hugh.Hunt 
mailto:he...@cam.ac.uk>>; Daphne Wysham 
mailto:dap...@methaneaction.org>>; 
healthy-planet-action-coalition 
mailto:healthy-planet-action-coalit...@googlegroups.com>>;
 Dermott Reilly 
mailto:dermott.rei...@nanolandglobal.com>>
Subject: RE: Marine Cloud Brightening

This email was sent to you by someone outside the University.
You should only click on links or attachments if you are certain that the email 
is genuine and the content is safe.
Stephen

As I understand it SO2 gets rained out more readily than CFCs, which eventually 
drift into the stratosphere. CFCs are stable in the troposphere and only get 
destroyed in the stratosphere by the more intense UV.

Clive
On 30/01/2022 09:50 SALTER Stephen 
mailto:s.sal...@ed.ac.uk>> wrote:


Clive
How do you think that stuff got up to the Ozone hole?
Stephen

From: 
healthy-planet-action-coalit...@googlegroups.com<mailto:healthy-planet-action-coalit...@googlegroups.com>
 
mailto:healthy-planet-action-coalit...@googlegroups.com>>
 On Behalf Of Clive Elsworth
Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2022 11:22 PM
To: SALTER Stephen mailto:s.sal...@ed.ac.uk>>
Cc: Ron Baiman mailto:rpbai...@gmail.com>>; Sev Clarke 
mailto:sevcla...@me.com>>; Peter Wadhams 
mailto:peter.wadh...@gmail.com>>; Chris Vivian 
mailto:chris.vivi...@btinternet.com>>; H simmens 
mailto:hsimm...@gmail.com>>; John Nissen 
mailto:johnnissen2...@gmail.com>>; Robert Tulip 
mailto:rtulip2...@yahoo.com.au>>; geoengineering 
mailto:geoengineering@googlegroups.com>>; 
Planetary Restoration 
mailto:planetary-restorat...@googlegroups.com>>;
 Shaun Fitzgerald mailto:sd...@cam.ac.uk>>; Hugh.Hunt 
mailto:he...@cam.ac.uk>>; Daphne Wysham 
mailto:dap...@methaneaction.org>>; 
healthy-planet-action-coalition 
mailto:healthy-planet-action-coalit...@googlegroups.com>>;
 Dermott Reilly 
mailto:dermott.rei...@nanolandglobal.com>>
Subject: Marine Cloud Brightening

This email was sent to you by someone outside the University.
You should only click on links or attachments if you are certain that the email 
is genuine and the content is safe.
Stephen

I confess I'm not sufficiently familiar with atmospheric physics to say whether 
aerosol particles released under the Arctic stratosphere would substantially 
move up into it.

Either way, Marine Cloud Brightening seems the safer option to me for the 
reasons you have given on numerous occasions. The question is if it can be 
ready in time and with sufficient social license.

I think you're aware of the University of Washington's MCB work: 
https://faculty.washington.edu/robwood2/wordpress/?page_id=954

The video on that page is high quality and only about a month old. I wonder if 
some collaboration might help speed things up?

Clive

On 29/01/2022 21:03 SALTER Stephen 
mailto:s.sal...@ed.ac.uk>> wrote:


Clive

Here is something about the Brewer Dobson velocity.

Stephen

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[geo] RE: Marine Cloud Brightening

[SALTER Stephen]

Clive
There is not much rain in the stratosphere where SO2 will be injected.
Stephen.

From: healthy-planet-action-coalit...@googlegroups.com 
 On Behalf Of Clive Elsworth
Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2022 11:59 AM
To: SALTER Stephen 
Cc: Ron Baiman ; Sev Clarke ; Peter 
Wadhams ; Chris Vivian ; 
H simmens ; John Nissen ; Robert 
Tulip ; geoengineering 
; Planetary Restoration 
; Shaun Fitzgerald ; 
Hugh.Hunt ; Daphne Wysham ; 
healthy-planet-action-coalition 
; Dermott Reilly 

Subject: RE: Marine Cloud Brightening

This email was sent to you by someone outside the University.
You should only click on links or attachments if you are certain that the email 
is genuine and the content is safe.
Stephen

As I understand it SO2 gets rained out more readily than CFCs, which eventually 
drift into the stratosphere. CFCs are stable in the troposphere and only get 
destroyed in the stratosphere by the more intense UV.

Clive
On 30/01/2022 09:50 SALTER Stephen 
mailto:s.sal...@ed.ac.uk>> wrote:


Clive
How do you think that stuff got up to the Ozone hole?
Stephen

From: 
healthy-planet-action-coalit...@googlegroups.com<mailto:healthy-planet-action-coalit...@googlegroups.com>
 
mailto:healthy-planet-action-coalit...@googlegroups.com>>
 On Behalf Of Clive Elsworth
Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2022 11:22 PM
To: SALTER Stephen mailto:s.sal...@ed.ac.uk>>
Cc: Ron Baiman mailto:rpbai...@gmail.com>>; Sev Clarke 
mailto:sevcla...@me.com>>; Peter Wadhams 
mailto:peter.wadh...@gmail.com>>; Chris Vivian 
mailto:chris.vivi...@btinternet.com>>; H simmens 
mailto:hsimm...@gmail.com>>; John Nissen 
mailto:johnnissen2...@gmail.com>>; Robert Tulip 
mailto:rtulip2...@yahoo.com.au>>; geoengineering 
mailto:geoengineering@googlegroups.com>>; 
Planetary Restoration 
mailto:planetary-restorat...@googlegroups.com>>;
 Shaun Fitzgerald mailto:sd...@cam.ac.uk>>; Hugh.Hunt 
mailto:he...@cam.ac.uk>>; Daphne Wysham 
mailto:dap...@methaneaction.org>>; 
healthy-planet-action-coalition 
mailto:healthy-planet-action-coalit...@googlegroups.com>>;
 Dermott Reilly 
mailto:dermott.rei...@nanolandglobal.com>>
Subject: Marine Cloud Brightening

This email was sent to you by someone outside the University.
You should only click on links or attachments if you are certain that the email 
is genuine and the content is safe.
Stephen

I confess I'm not sufficiently familiar with atmospheric physics to say whether 
aerosol particles released under the Arctic stratosphere would substantially 
move up into it.

Either way, Marine Cloud Brightening seems the safer option to me for the 
reasons you have given on numerous occasions. The question is if it can be 
ready in time and with sufficient social license.

I think you're aware of the University of Washington's MCB work: 
https://faculty.washington.edu/robwood2/wordpress/?page_id=954

The video on that page is high quality and only about a month old. I wonder if 
some collaboration might help speed things up?

Clive

On 29/01/2022 21:03 SALTER Stephen 
mailto:s.sal...@ed.ac.uk>> wrote:


Clive

Here is something about the Brewer Dobson velocity.

Stephen

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[geo] RE: Marine Cloud Brightening

[SALTER Stephen]

Clive
How do you think that stuff got up to the Ozone hole?
Stephen

From: healthy-planet-action-coalit...@googlegroups.com 
 On Behalf Of Clive Elsworth
Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2022 11:22 PM
To: SALTER Stephen 
Cc: Ron Baiman ; Sev Clarke ; Peter 
Wadhams ; Chris Vivian ; 
H simmens ; John Nissen ; Robert 
Tulip ; geoengineering 
; Planetary Restoration 
; Shaun Fitzgerald ; 
Hugh.Hunt ; Daphne Wysham ; 
healthy-planet-action-coalition 
; Dermott Reilly 

Subject: Marine Cloud Brightening

This email was sent to you by someone outside the University.
You should only click on links or attachments if you are certain that the email 
is genuine and the content is safe.
Stephen

I confess I'm not sufficiently familiar with atmospheric physics to say whether 
aerosol particles released under the Arctic stratosphere would substantially 
move up into it.

Either way, Marine Cloud Brightening seems the safer option to me for the 
reasons you have given on numerous occasions. The question is if it can be 
ready in time and with sufficient social license.

I think you're aware of the University of Washington's MCB work: 
https://faculty.washington.edu/robwood2/wordpress/?page_id=954

The video on that page is high quality and only about a month old. I wonder if 
some collaboration might help speed things up?

Clive

On 29/01/2022 21:03 SALTER Stephen 
mailto:s.sal...@ed.ac.uk>> wrote:


Clive

Here is something about the Brewer Dobson velocity.

Stephen

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RE: [geo] Non-Use and Earth System Governance

[SALTER Stephen]

Hi All
It is not quite accurate to say that marine cloud brightening is ‘global in 
effect’.
The short life of spray and the high speed of hydrofoil spray vessels mean that 
we can aim cooling at hot blobs in the ocean or El Niño events. Precision 
depends on how accurately we can predict wind direction, cloud patterns and 
current flow a few days ahead, as far ahead as the next rainfall which will 
wash condensation nuclei back into the sea.  Fleets of spray vessels can adjust 
the sea surface temperature gradient east or west across the Indian Ocean 
dipole.  They can trim the pattern of temperature in sea areas around the 
typhoon-affected regions several months ahead of the typhoon season aiming at 
values chosen by local Governments and their insurance companies. Fleet 
operators would be be paid according to how close they get to the chosen, 
desirable values. We may not yet know exactly where and when we should operate 
but, with satellite observations and steadily improving computer forecasting, 
we can learn.
I wonder how theorists of transnational climate governance, who have not, so 
far, distinguished themselves about CO2 emissions, will feel if, in future, 
they get blamed for delaying research.

Stephen Salter
Emeritus Professor of Engineering Design
School of Engineering
Mayfield Road
Edinburgh EH9 3DW
0131 650 5704
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-0h14RFq4M=155s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BBVTStBrhw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBB6WtH_Ni8




From: geoengineering@googlegroups.com  On 
Behalf Of Josh Horton
Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2022 6:24 PM
To: geoengineering 
Subject: [geo] Non-Use and Earth System Governance

This email was sent to you by someone outside the University.
You should only click on links or attachments if you are certain that the email 
is genuine and the content is safe.
Hi everyone,

The proposed Non-Use Agreement seems to be largely driven by the leadership of 
the Earth System Governance Project (see here 
https://www.earthsystemgovernance.org).  In that regard it's worth mentioning 
that I recently co-authored a couple of articles on how ESG and some of its 
prominent affiliates relate to solar geoengineering.

The first, written with Jesse Reynolds, is titled An Earth System Governance 
Perspective on Solar Geoengineering 
(https://keith.seas.harvard.edu/files/tkg/files/an_earth_system_governance_perspective_on_solar_geoengineering.pdf?m=1603715657).
  Here's the abstract:

Solar geoengineering appears capable of reducing climate change and the 
associated risks. In part because it would be global in effect, the governance 
of solar geoengineering is a central concern. The Earth System Governance (ESG) 
Project includes many researchers who, to varying degrees, utilize a common 
vocabulary and research framework. Despite the clear mutual relevance of solar 
geoengineering and ESG, few ESG researchers have considered the topic in 
substantial depth. To stimulate its sustained uptake as a subject within the 
ESG research program, we identify significant contributions thus far by ESG 
scholars on the subject of solar geoengineering governance and survey the wider 
solar geo- engineering governance literature from the perspective of the new 
ESG research framework. Based on this analysis, we also suggest specific 
potential lines of inquiry that we believe are ripe for research by ESG 
scholars: nonstate actors’ roles, polycentricity, public engagement and 
participation, and the Anthropocene.
The second, written with Barbara Koremenos, is titled Steering and Influence in 
Transnational Climate Governance: Nonstate Engagement in Solar Geoengineering 
Research 
(https://keith.seas.harvard.edu/files/tkg/files/glep_a_00572_horton.pdf?m=1599010167).
  There's a big overlap between ESG and TCG.  Here's the abstract:

Theorists of transnational climate governance (TCG) seek to account for the 
increasing involvement of nonstate and substate actors in global climate 
policy. While transnational actors have been present in the emerging field of 
solar geoengineering—a novel technol- ogy intended to reflect a fraction of 
sunlight back to space to reduce climate impacts— many of their most 
significant activities, including knowledge dissemination, scientific capacity 
building, and conventional lobbying, are not captured by the TCG framework. 
Insofar as TCG is identified with transnational governance and transnational 
governance is important to reducing climate risks, an incomplete TCG framework 
is problematic for effective policy making. We attribute this shortcoming on 
the part of TCG to its exclusive focus on steering and corollary exclusion of 
influence as a critical component of gover- nance. Exercising influence, for 
example, through inside and outside lobbying, is an important part of 
transnational governance—it complements direct governing with indi- rect 
efforts to inform, persuade, pressure, or otherwise influence both governor and 
gov- erned. 

RE: [geo] Solar geoengineering: The case for an international non-use agreement

[SALTER Stephen]

High All
Is the release of greenhouse gases, plastic bags, excessive antibiotics, space 
debris, CFC’s, brake dust, unexploded munitions and uranium mine tailings 
governable in a globally inclusive and just manner within the current 
international political system?
Stephen

From: geoengineering@googlegroups.com  On 
Behalf Of Geoeng Info
Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2022 3:00 PM
To: Geoengineering@googlegroups.com
Subject: [geo] Solar geoengineering: The case for an international non-use 
agreement

This email was sent to you by someone outside the University.
You should only click on links or attachments if you are certain that the email 
is genuine and the content is safe.
https://wires.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/wcc.754

Solar geoengineering: The case for an international non-use agreement

Frank Biermann, Jeroen Oomen, Aarti Gupta, Saleem H. Ali, Ken Conca, Maarten A. 
Hajer, Prakash Kashwan, Louis J. Kotzé, Melissa Leach, Dirk Messner, 
Chukwumerije Okereke, Åsa Persson, Janez Potočnik, David Schlosberg, Michelle 
Scobie, Stacy D. VanDeveer

Abstract

Solar geoengineering is gaining prominence in climate change debates as an 
issue worth studying; for some it is even a potential future policy option. We 
argue here against this increasing normalization of solar geoengineering as a 
speculative part of the climate policy portfolio. We contend, in particular, 
that solar geoengineering at planetary scale is not governable in a globally 
inclusive and just manner within the current international political system. We 
therefore call upon governments and the United Nations to take immediate and 
effective political control over the development of solar geoengineering 
technologies. Specifically, we advocate for an International Non-Use Agreement 
on Solar Geoengineering and outline the core elements of this proposal.
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[geo] FW: RMetS meeting on Friday 14th January

[SALTER Stephen]

Hi All

I hope that this will be interesting.  For a month either side of the summer 
solstice there is more heat going into the North pole than the equator.

Stephen Salter
Emeritus Professor of Engineering Design
School of Engineering
Mayfield Road
Edinburgh EH9 3DW
0131 650 5704
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-0h14RFq4M=155s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBB6WtH_Ni8


From: Richard Tabony 
Sent: Friday, January 7, 2022 10:20 AM
To: Richard Tabony 
Subject: RMetS meeting on Friday 14th January

This email was sent to you by someone outside the University.
You should only click on links or attachments if you are certain that the email 
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ROYAL METEOROLOGICAL SOCIETY, SCOTTISH CENTRE



VIRTUAL MEETING, 6 PM FRIDAY 14 JANUARY



ATMOSPHERIC PROCESSES AND THEIR IMPACT ON THE 79° NORTH GLACIER, NORTHEAST 
GREENLAND



DR JENNY TURTON, SENIOR ADVISOR, ARCTIC FRONTIERS

FORMERLY

FRIEDRICH-ALEXANDER UNIVERSITAT, ERLANGEN, GERMANY





SPEAKER



My research focuses on the interaction between the atmosphere and cryosphere in 
the polar regions and mountains. More specifically, I investigate the spatial 
distribution, frequency and impact of atmospheric processes on surface melting 
of glaciers and ice shelves. So far, I have focused on the Larsen C ice shelf, 
79N glacier (northeast Greenland) and the Patagonian ice fields.

I am passionate about science communication and regularly participate in and 
organise workshops, events and lectures for a variety of audiences. Most 
recently, I participated in the ‘long night of science’ at Friedrich Alexander 
University and spoke with journalists and radio hosts about climate change in 
the Arctic.

I started my position at Arctic Frontiers on 1st January. This is an 
organisation which creates dialogues between scientists, policy makers, 
governments and local communities in the Arctic. From April 2019 to April 2021 
I was the Early Career Scientist (ECS) representative for the cryosphere 
division of the European Geosciences Union (EGU). As part of this role, I 
communicate the needs and voices of the division with council members of the 
union. I have organised webinars on careers outside of academia and chaired a 
debate focusing on the balance between conducting science and reducing our 
carbon footprint.

In August 2017 I defended my PhD on the spatial and temporal distribution of 
föhn winds and their impact on the Larsen C Ice Shelf, Antarctica. I studied 
for my PhD jointly with the British Antarctic Survey and the University of 
Leeds.





ABSTRACT



Nioghalvfjerdsfjorden or 79° North Glacier drains approximately 8% of the 
Greenland ice stream and is the largest remaining ice shelf in the Arctic. 
Since the mid 2000's, the glacier has been thinning, retreating and melting at 
a faster rate. In 2019 and 2020, two large icebergs calved following 
exceptionally warm summers. The glacier has a floating tongue, which extends 
approximately 80km into the ocean, which means the glacier is exposed to both a 
warming ocean and a warming atmosphere. During winter, the passing of storms 
along the coast can raise the air temperature to the melting point and produce 
rainfall. In winter, atmospheric rivers pass over the ice sheet and produce 
extreme melting through the föhn mechanism. Recent evidence suggests that 
melting is now occurring at a higher elevation than in the early 2000's. In 
this talk, the key atmospheric processes in the region will be presented, along 
with a discussion of the impact they are having on the glacier through enhanced 
ice melting.





This will be a 45 minute talk followed by 15 minutes for Q The meeting will 
open from 5:50 pm for attendees to join and the event will start promptly at 6 
pm. Please register for the event on www.rmets.org and 
join the meeting using Google Chrome. Please note that joining instructions 
will not be provided unless you have registered.

The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in Scotland, with 
registration number SC005336. Is e buidheann carthannais a th’ ann an Oilthigh 
Dhùn Èideann, clàraichte an Alba, àireamh clàraidh SC005336.

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[geo] ships for CO2 dumping

[SALTER Stephen]

Hi All

https://www.maritime-executive.com/article/research-into-low-pressure-co2-shipping-for-carbon-capture-and-storage

Stephen Salter
Emeritus Professor of Engineering Design
School of Engineering
Mayfield Road
Edinburgh EH9 3DW
0131 650 5704
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-0h14RFq4M=155s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBB6WtH_Ni8

The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in Scotland, with 
registration number SC005336. Is e buidheann carthannais a th' ann an Oilthigh 
Dh?n ?ideann, cl?raichte an Alba, ?ireamh cl?raidh SC005336.

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RE: [geo] Geoengineering video list - November

[SALTER Stephen]

Hi All

The COP 26 press conference about marine cloud brightening,  red line below 
ending in…4D8,  starts with 3.4 minutes of silence, enough to turn off every 
casual and even most interested browsers.

This has been edited out from the version at

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-0h14RFq4M=155s

Please let me know if the previous one can be replaced.

Stephen Salter
Emeritus Professor of Engineering Design
School of Engineering
Mayfield Road
Edinburgh EH9 3DW
0131 650 5704
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-0h14RFq4M=155s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBB6WtH_Ni8


From: geoengineering@googlegroups.com  On 
Behalf Of SALTER Stephen
Sent: Monday, November 29, 2021 2:04 PM
To: infogeo...@gmail.com; Geoengineering@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [geo] Geoengineering video list - November

Hi All

Is the boring first 3.4 minutes of the marine cloud brightening intended to 
discourage  people from viewing it.  Can it be edited out?

Stephen
From: geoengineering@googlegroups.com<mailto:geoengineering@googlegroups.com> 
mailto:geoengineering@googlegroups.com>> On 
Behalf Of Geoeng Info
Sent: Monday, November 29, 2021 12:14 AM
To: Geoengineering@googlegroups.com<mailto:Geoengineering@googlegroups.com>
Subject: [geo] Geoengineering video list - November

This email was sent to you by someone outside the University.
You should only click on links or attachments if you are certain that the email 
is genuine and the content is safe.
Hi everyone! I bring to you a small list of recent videos on the topics of 
geoengineering.

There's a playlist with more videos on topic, you can check it here: 
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLF8369A27273314D8

Enjoy! Hope we all have a great coming week.


COP26 Press Conference about Marine Cloud Brightening
https://youtu.be/P7mVI8o6xKc?list=PLF8369A27273314D8

by Thomas Reis

Press Conference about Marine Cloud Brightening with Salter, Beckwith and 
Wadham more Information about SRM and Climate on http://twitter.com/peakaustria


Governing Solar Radiation Modification
https://youtu.be/GrorwMpqMAA?list=PLF8369A27273314D8

by C2G Carnegie Climate Governance Initiative

Janos Pasztor, Executive Director of the Carnegie Climate Governance Initiative 
(C2G) discusses C2G’s project to strengthen multilateral governance for Solar 
Radiation Modification (SRM) at the Paris Peace Forum, held 11-13 November 2021.

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[geo] FW: Starting in 2 hours: Climate Change Committee - 2021 Progress Report to Scottish Parliament

[SALTER Stephen]

From: Climate Change Committee 
Sent: Tuesday, December 7, 2021 8:02 AM
To: SALTER Stephen 
Subject: Starting in 2 hours: Climate Change Committee - 2021 Progress Report 
to Scottish Parliament

This email was sent to you by someone outside the University.
You should only click on links or attachments if you are certain that the email 
is genuine and the content is safe.

[Image removed by sender. Eventbrite]
Your event Climate Change Committee - 2021 Progress Report to Scottish 
Parliament<https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/x/climate-change-committee-2021-progress-report-to-scottish-parliament-tickets-211059603957?utm_source=eventbrite_medium=email_campaign=reminder_attendees_event_starting_email_term=eventname=eemaileventremind>
 starts in 2 hours

How to join

Log in and check the event page for instructions to join. If you need to create 
an account, sign up with the email address you used to register for this event.
[View the event]




Good morning,



Please join us to launch the Climate Change Committee's 2021 Progress Report to 
the Scottish Parliament this morning through the below link:



You can access the livestream for this event on Youtube live at 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BnlxvCKYLI.



You can take part in the Q through Sli.do at: 
https://app.sli.do/event/jq8hkmjb  or using the code #351145.



The CCC's report is now available on our 
website<https://www.theccc.org.uk/publicationtype/0-report/04-scotland-reports/>.



Best wishes,

Climate Change Committee



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RE: [geo] Geoengineering video list - November

[SALTER Stephen]

Hi All

Is the boring first 3.4 minutes of the marine cloud brightening intended to 
discourage  people from viewing it.  Can it be edited out?

Stephen
From: geoengineering@googlegroups.com  On 
Behalf Of Geoeng Info
Sent: Monday, November 29, 2021 12:14 AM
To: Geoengineering@googlegroups.com
Subject: [geo] Geoengineering video list - November

This email was sent to you by someone outside the University.
You should only click on links or attachments if you are certain that the email 
is genuine and the content is safe.
Hi everyone! I bring to you a small list of recent videos on the topics of 
geoengineering.

There's a playlist with more videos on topic, you can check it here: 
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLF8369A27273314D8

Enjoy! Hope we all have a great coming week.


COP26 Press Conference about Marine Cloud Brightening
https://youtu.be/P7mVI8o6xKc?list=PLF8369A27273314D8

by Thomas Reis

Press Conference about Marine Cloud Brightening with Salter, Beckwith and 
Wadham more Information about SRM and Climate on http://twitter.com/peakaustria


Governing Solar Radiation Modification
https://youtu.be/GrorwMpqMAA?list=PLF8369A27273314D8

by C2G Carnegie Climate Governance Initiative

Janos Pasztor, Executive Director of the Carnegie Climate Governance Initiative 
(C2G) discusses C2G’s project to strengthen multilateral governance for Solar 
Radiation Modification (SRM) at the Paris Peace Forum, held 11-13 November 2021.

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[geo] FW: COP26: The world is dangerously off track to meet the Paris Agreement commitments

[SALTER Stephen]

Hi All
Below is an alarming report from Chatham House who are a respectable authority 
on a wide range of subjects.
Stephen

From: Chatham House 
Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2021 12:02 PM
To: SALTER Stephen 
Subject: COP26: The world is dangerously off track to meet the Paris Agreement 
commitments

This email was sent to you by someone outside the University.
You should only click on links or attachments if you are certain that the email 
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A round up of our latest COP26 updates
 ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌  ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌  ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ 
‌  ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌  ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌  ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ 
‌ ‌  ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌


View in 
browser<https://email-chathamhouse.org/1S3M-7J7ZL-E3EBCBB42D0F3539V8Y3CT0AD5CA731BEC9366/cr.aspx>
 | Manage your 
preferences<https://email-chathamhouse.org/1S3M-7J7ZL-V8Y3CT-4KA8JS-1/c.aspx>

[Image removed by sender. Chatham 
House]<https://email-chathamhouse.org/1S3M-7J7ZL-V8Y3CT-4KA8JT-1/c.aspx>



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Climate change risk assessment 2021


The world is dangerously off track to meet the Paris Agreement goals.

Ahead of COP26, we've published Climate change risk assessment 
2021<https://email-chathamhouse.org/1S3M-7J7ZL-V8Y3CT-4KA8JU-1/c.aspx>, which 
outlines the most important impacts of climate change on food security, 
conflict and displacement over the next 30 years.

Read this important new research paper to understand the climate change impacts 
we are facing based on the world's current trajectory.


Read the 
summary<https://email-chathamhouse.org/1S3M-7J7ZL-V8Y3CT-4KA8JV-1/c.aspx>


Read the research 
paper<https://email-chathamhouse.org/1S3M-7J7ZL-V8Y3CT-4KA8JW-1/c.aspx>







Watch: What is needed for success in 2021’s climate super 
year?<https://email-chathamhouse.org/1S3M-7J7ZL-V8Y3CT-4KA8JX-1/c.aspx>

[Image removed by 
sender.]<https://email-chathamhouse.org/1S3M-7J7ZL-V8Y3CT-4KA8JY-1/c.aspx>

As part of London Climate Action Week 2021 our expert panel hosted this 
fascinating discussion of the year’s events so far, what success looks like at 
COP26, and Chatham House’s climate policy focus.


Watch the event 
recording<https://email-chathamhouse.org/1S3M-7J7ZL-V8Y3CT-4KA8JZ-1/c.aspx>







[Image removed by 
sender.]<https://email-chathamhouse.org/1S3M-7J7ZL-V8Y3CT-4KA8K0-1/c.aspx>

Climate risk management for international 
organizations<https://email-chathamhouse.org/1S3M-7J7ZL-V8Y3CT-4KA8K1-1/c.aspx>


This paper maps the current climate risk approaches of roughly two dozen 
international organizations and recommends how to strengthen climate risk 
management frameworks.


Read the research 
paper<https://email-chathamhouse.org/1S3M-7J7ZL-V8Y3CT-4KA8K2-1/c.aspx>







Watch: John Kerry on the urgency of climate 
action<https://email-chathamhouse.org/1S3M-7J7ZL-V8Y3CT-4KA8K3-1/c.aspx>

[Image removed by 
sender.]<https://email-chathamhouse.org/1S3M-7J7ZL-V8Y3CT-4KA8K4-1/c.aspx>

The US Special Presidential Envoy for Climate delivered a major policy speech 
at the Royal Botanic Gardens in Kew, London, on July 26, previewing the urgency 
of unified action at COP26.


Watch the event 
recording<https://email-chathamhouse.org/1S3M-7J7ZL-V8Y3CT-4KA8K5-1/c.aspx>







Listen: Managing the impacts of climate 
change<https://email-chathamhouse.org/1S3M-7J7ZL-V8Y3CT-4KA8K6-1/c.aspx>

[Image removed by 
sender.]<https://email-chathamhouse.org/1S3M-7J7ZL-V8Y3CT-4KA8K7-1/c.aspx>

Bangladesh’s High Commissioner to the UK discusses the international politics 
around climate adaptation, and Marek Soanes explains locally led approaches to 
adaptation.


Listen to the Climate Briefing 
podcast<https://email-chathamhouse.org/1S3M-7J7ZL-V8Y3CT-4KA8K8-1/c.aspx>






Connect with Chatham House

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FW: [geo] Climate change challange: Free-riders and geo-engineering

[SALTER Stephen]

From: SALTER Stephen
Sent: Sunday, September 12, 2021 9:02 AM
To: infogeo...@gmail.com
Subject: RE: [geo] Climate change challange: Free-riders and geo-engineering

Hi All
Why ‘either or’ in line 3 of the Kemper abstract?
Suppose that we need both?
Stephen

From: geoengineering@googlegroups.com<mailto:geoengineering@googlegroups.com> 
mailto:geoengineering@googlegroups.com>> On 
Behalf Of Geoeng Info
Sent: Saturday, September 11, 2021 10:00 PM
To: Geoengineering@googlegroups.com<mailto:Geoengineering@googlegroups.com>
Subject: [geo] Climate change challange: Free-riders and geo-engineering

This email was sent to you by someone outside the University.
You should only click on links or attachments if you are certain that the email 
is genuine and the content is safe.
https://dspace.library.uu.nl/handle/1874/406093

Climate change challange: Free-riders and geo-engineering


Kemper, E.C.S.
(2021) Faculty of Science Theses
(Bachelor thesis)

Abstract
In this work an agent-based model with computable general equilibrium 
integrated assessment models is used to determine if the availability to 
geo-engineering has an influence on climate negotiations. With a combination of 
FAIR-DICE and an alternative energy sector an optimal path is calibrated for 
policymakers which can either invest in green energy or aerosol injections to 
combat climate change. The altered DICE-model integrates economics, carbon 
cycle, climate science, and the weighing of costs, resulting in agents guessing 
benefits of taking steps to slow down climate change. Geo-engineering is seen 
as a possible cheap alternative solution to slow down global warming, which 
could mean a slower transition to green energy. This model results show no 
significant influence on the timing of the green transition in both a 
competitive and altruistic scenario
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[geo] COP 26 rejection

[SALTER Stephen]

Hi All

The site

https://theferret.scot/were-barred-from-cop26-nuclear-industry-complains/?utm_source=ActiveCampaign_medium=email_campaign=New+Daily+Alerts_content=We+re+barred+from+COP26+%3A+nuclear+industry+complains+after+rejected+applications+%7C+%E2%80%8BDaily+Alerts+email+from+The+Ferret+for+%E2%80%8B+TODAY

has a sad story about every application made by nuclear groups for exhibits at 
COP 26 being rejected.

Mine about emission reduction being inadequate and the need for marine cloud 
brightening was rejected too but now I do not feel quite so lonely.

Stephen Salter
Emeritus Professor of Engineering Design
School of Engineering
Mayfield Road
Edinburgh EH9 3DW
0131 650 5704
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBB6WtH_Ni8

The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in Scotland, with 
registration number SC005336. Is e buidheann carthannais a th' ann an Oilthigh 
Dh?n ?ideann, cl?raichte an Alba, ?ireamh cl?raidh SC005336.

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RE: [geo] RE: IPCC AR6 Summary for Policymakers

[SALTER Stephen]

Hi All

Behind every root cause is another root cause. The root cause of greenhouse 
gases is excessive human population.  An effective solution to that is 
uncomfortably topical but would not be well received.

Stephen

From: geoengineering@googlegroups.com  On 
Behalf Of Cush Ngonzo Luwesi
Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2021 8:30 PM
To: rtulip2...@yahoo.com.au
Cc: Carbon Dioxide Removal ; 
geoengineering 
Subject: Re: [geo] RE: IPCC AR6 Summary for Policymakers

This email was sent to you by someone outside the University.
You should only click on links or attachments if you are certain that the email 
is genuine and the content is safe.
Dear Robert
I enjoyed pretty much reading your critique on the IPCC AR6 report and the AMOC 
report. I notices that thèse reports put an emphasis on mitigation and negative 
emissions as the way to slowing down ice melting and Climate variability. Yet, 
these arguments seem to be "unscientific" to you because of your take on Solar 
geoengineering. Yet, many observées think that brightening the marine clouds 
and spraying aérosols do not solve the very cause of Climate change, which is 
GHGe. Yet, to D.  Hume's point of view, a "scientific" control is the one that 
Solves causality, meaning a solution that controls or stabilises the causes. 
What is your take on this? To what science do you refer to in your commenté? 
Who is fooling who?
Thanks in advance for your feedback.
Regards
Cush

Le mer. 11 août 2021 à 12:16, 'Robert Tulip' via geoengineering 
mailto:geoengineering@googlegroups.com>> a 
écrit :
I thought it was pretty bad that the IPCC 
report
 states as its headline B.1 finding that "Global warming of 1.5°C and 2°C will 
be exceeded during the 21st century unless deep reductions in CO2 and other 
greenhouse gas emissions occur in the coming decades."

It should rather state "Global warming of 1.5°C and 2°C will be exceeded during 
the 21st century even if deep reductions in CO2 and other greenhouse gas 
emissions occur in the coming decades." (my bold)

As the NOAA AGGI report states, CO2 equivalents are 
now above 500 ppm. Emission reduction, technically defined, only reduces the 
future addition of GHGs to the system, and does nothing to remove the committed 
warming from past emissions. Leading scientists (eg Eelco Rohling) think past 
emissions already commit the planet to 2°C.

Even a major program of carbon conversion, transforming CO2 into useful 
commodities such as soil and fabric, would do nothing to stop the escalation of 
extreme weather this decade. Carbon removal is too small and slow, despite 
having orders of magnitude greater potential cooling impact than 
decarbonisation of the world economy.

My view is the only immediate solution is to brighten the planet. Albedo 
enhancement should start by pumping sea water onto the Arctic sea ice in winter 
to freeze and reduce the summer melt using wind energy (diagram attached). 
Marine cloud brightening is the next best option, followed by areas that need 
considerably more impact research such as stratospheric aerosol injection and 
iron salt aerosol.

It is a disgrace that the IPCC seems to have entirely written off this whole 
area of response, with no scientific reasoning as to why.

I understand that people find climate intervention for planetary restoration a 
rather mind-boggling idea and would prefer it were not needed. The problem is 
that extreme weather is steadily getting worse, and cutting emissions through 
the energy transition can do nothing to stop it. The overall issue is to define 
a scientific response to climate policy. That means relying on evidence to 
define the most safe and effective methods to support ongoing climate 
stability. Sadly AR6 squibbed that challenge.

Much of the public policy relies on other factors as well as science. Notably 
this is about public perceptions rather than empirical assessment. But that 
means the climate activist community will no longer be able to use the mantra 
"the science says" to oppose geoengineering, as Michael Mann and Bill McKibben 
and others now do.

I think the factors that could change public opinion quite quickly include the 
idea that immediate action to refreeze the Arctic is essential to maintain 
stability of main ocean currents. I was very perturbed to see the report last 
week on the slowing down of the AMOC Atlantic Meridional Overturning 
Circulation
 and Gulf Stream collapse, with potential disasters for the world economy and 
ecology.

The linked press report suggested that decarbonising the economy is "the only 
thing to do" to prevent the AMOC from stopping. That is an absurdly 
unscientific opinion. It just fails to see that such natural processes require 
action at orders of magnitude bigger scale 

[geo] At last

[SALTER Stephen]

Hi All

This

https://www.ipcc.ch/2021/08/05/press-conference-details-wgi-ar6/

might be of interest.

Stephen

Emeritus Professor of Engineering Design
School of Engineering
Mayfield Road
Edinburgh EH9 3DW
0131 650 5704
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBB6WtH_Ni8

The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in Scotland, with 
registration number SC005336. Is e buidheann carthannais a th' ann an Oilthigh 
Dh?n ?ideann, cl?raichte an Alba, ?ireamh cl?raidh SC005336.

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[geo] Government discussions

[SALTER Stephen]

Hi All

https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/9bc8yw/this_is_a_statue_located_in_berlin_entitled/?utm_source=share_medium=web2x=3

seems uncomfortably accurate.

Stephen Salter
Emeritus Professor of Engineering Design
School of Engineering
Mayfield Road
Edinburgh EH9 3DW
0131 650 5704
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBB6WtH_Ni8

The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in Scotland, with 
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RE: [geo] Reflections on a hypothetical decentralized grassroots deployment solar geoengineering scenario

[SALTER Stephen]

Just imagine how awful would it be if millions of private citizens could take 
things into their own hands about releasing harmful greenhouse gases for 
personal comfort or selfish commercial gain.

From: geoengineering@googlegroups.com  On 
Behalf Of Geoeng Info
Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2021 10:00 AM
To: Geoengineering@googlegroups.com
Subject: [geo] Reflections on a hypothetical decentralized grassroots 
deployment solar geoengineering scenario

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You should only click on links or attachments if you are certain that the email 
is genuine and the content is safe.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0016328721001208

Reflections on a hypothetical decentralized grassroots deployment solar 
geoengineering scenario

Anne Pasek, David Morrow, Walker Lee, Tyler Felgenhauer



Abstract
What if solar geoengineering were enacted not through careful intergovernmental 
deliberations or the actions of a rogue state, but by millions of private 
citizens taking matters into their own hands? This thought experiment—the 
subject of a scenario exercise at the Sixth International Geoengineering 
Governance Summer School—produced a range of critical reflections on 
international responses to such grassroots deployment as participant teams 
developed and critiqued governance proposals. Consideration of decentralized 
solar geoengineering, while unlikely, provides compelling insights for the 
governance of both irregular and more conventional geoengineering scenarios. 
Participants stressed that concerns with the collecting and reporting of data, 
hemispheric imbalances, and multidirectional questions of legitimacy are likely 
to arise in such contexts. Grassroots activity could further serve to galvanize 
wider state-led deliberations around geoengineering governance, forcing—but not 
necessarily deciding—the question of whether and how solar geoengineering 
should be implemented.


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[geo] FW: I hope you'll watch this video

[SALTER Stephen]

Hi All
I found the discussion link below run by Metta Spencer, email above, below very 
interesting.   She pretends to be new to the subject and then asks exactly the 
right questions.
Please let me know if you would like a note about a new way to inject ocean 
iron.  I think that we were too quick to reject it.
Stephen

From: Metta W Spencer 
Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2021 3:26 AM
To: Peter Wadhams ; Richard Peltier 

Subject: I hope you'll watch this video

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As you know, I produce a serious talk show every weekday. In this new one, 
Peter Ward and Paul Werbos talk about the possibility of a stratified ocean, 
with fertilizers creating phytoplankton blooms in the ocean, where they sink to 
the bottom  — and, absent oxygen – cause a proliferation of hydrogen 
sulphide-producing bacteria, with catastrophic results for life on the planet.

I want someone to compare this scenario to an alternative one promoting the use 
of iron filings in the ocean to stimulate phytoplankton, which presumably would 
die and carry the CO2 to the bottom, where it will be sequestered, to our great 
advantage.

We also talk about the changing ocean currents, and what they portend.
Here is the link:
Https://tosavetheworld.ca/290-extinction

I hope to stimulate further discussion of these topics on my show, especially 
with regard to the differential warming of the poles.
Metta
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[geo] FW: New IRGC article: "A risk-risk assessment framework for Solar Radiation Modification"

[SALTER Stephen]

Hi All
What are the costs and dangers of not doing geo engineering and who will take 
the blame if it is not ready in time?
Stephen Salter
Emeritus Professor of Engineering Design
School of Engineering
Mayfield Road
Edinburgh EH9 3DW
0131 650 5704
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBB6WtH_Ni8


From: IRGC (International Risk Governance Center) 
Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2021 11:46 AM
To: SALTER Stephen 
Subject: New IRGC article: "A risk-risk assessment framework for Solar 
Radiation Modification"

This email was sent to you by someone outside the University.
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Hello,

We are pleased to share our latest Spotlight on risk article, "A risk-risk 
assessment framework for Solar Radiation 
Modification"<https://epfl.us5.list-manage.com/track/click?u=5f53832895234c22e3f6d93f7=7ce61d9db2=d0d8445376>.
 This piece, written by guest authors Nicholas Harrison, Janos Pasztor and 
Kai-Uwe Barani Schmidt of the Carnegie Climate Governance Initiative 
(C2G)<https://epfl.us5.list-manage.com/track/click?u=5f53832895234c22e3f6d93f7=518c3075f1=d0d8445376>,
 offers a risk-risk assessment framework to help strengthen decision-making 
concerning solar radiation modification (SRM).


Read: A risk-risk assessment framework for Solar Radiation 
Modification<https://epfl.us5.list-manage.com/track/click?u=5f53832895234c22e3f6d93f7=12ae6c231d=d0d8445376>

You can also read more about SRM and climate-altering technologies in IRGC's 
2020 report, "International Governance Issues on Climate 
Engineering"<https://epfl.us5.list-manage.com/track/click?u=5f53832895234c22e3f6d93f7=359793ee4e=d0d8445376>.

We hope you will share this Spotlight on risk article among your colleagues and 
networks, and we always appreciate receiving feedback.

Kind regards,
The IRGC team

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[geo] Pierrehumbert objections to marine cloud brightening

[SALTER Stephen]

Dear Raymond
The reasons you give in today's Guardian article by Amy Fleming as objections 
to marine cloud brightening are in fact strong arguments in its favour. Weather 
patterns do indeed depend on ocean temperatures which are now being changed by 
human activities.  Marine cloud brightening used in the right time and place 
can put sea surface temperatures back to where they used to be.  If we knew 
enough about the climate system, especially the wind speed and direction a few 
days ahead, we might even make thing more benign. We do know that the 
temperature gradient across the Indian Ocean sets the balance of floods and 
droughts between Africa and Australia.  This could be adjusted by moving fleets 
east or west. We know that higher temperature affects the intensity of 
hurricanes and typhoons. Wherever we use marine cloud brightening will slow or 
reverse sea level rise.
You also object to the short life of the increased aerosol and the need to keep 
treatment for ever.  I would be much more worried about anything that was 
irreversible. The short life gives a high frequency response and low phase lag 
which is desirable in every control system.  It allows rapid correction of 
mistakes as we learn to how to do the control.  We do not have to do it for 
ever, only until CO2 concentrations have been reduced. We do not interfere with 
any of the other climate solutions listed by Amy Fleming and we should use 
every tool in the box in parallel harmony. The spray vessels do not use fuel 
and are autonomous so, once you have paid for them, it is cheaper to keep them 
moving out as sea rather than paying harbour dues.

Breathe safely


Stephen Salter
Emeritus Professor of Engineering Design
School of Engineering
Mayfield Road
Edinburgh EH9 3DW
0131 650 5704
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBB6WtH_Ni8

The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in Scotland, with 
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[geo] Environmental permissions and reactions

[SALTER Stephen]

Hi All
The link 
https://www.maritime-executive.com/article/video-carrier-uss-ford-undergoes-first-explosive-shock-trial
Shows some interesting results of work by the United States Navy.
It would be interesting to compare the environmental impact on marine organisms 
with what have come from the SPICE and SCoPEx experiments and also the 
responses of environmental campaigners.
Of course the decisive difference is the long term motivations of the people 
concerned.

Stephen Salter
Emeritus Professor of Engineering Design
School of Engineering
Mayfield Road
Edinburgh EH9 3DW
0131 650 5704
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBB6WtH_Ni8

The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in Scotland, with 
registration number SC005336. Is e buidheann carthannais a th' ann an Oilthigh 
Dh?n ?ideann, cl?raichte an Alba, ?ireamh cl?raidh SC005336.

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RE: [geo] Some say we can ‘solar-engineer’ ourselves out of the climate crisis. Don’t buy it Ray Pierrehumbert and Michael Mann

[SALTER Stephen]

Hi All

The root cause of the root cause of the CO2 problem is the excessive population 
of humans.  The best solution would be genetic engineering of a virus with high 
mortality and transmission efficiency.  Covid 19 is pathetically inadequate.  
We would need to crank up the rate of variant production, improve the width of 
age sensitivity and also make it selective for skin colour, eye shape and 
perhaps even political attitudes.

Stephen

Emeritus Professor of Engineering Design
School of Engineering
Mayfield Road
Edinburgh EH9 3DW
0131 650 5704
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBB6WtH_Ni8



From: geoengineering@googlegroups.com  On 
Behalf Of Geoeng Info
Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2021 9:20 PM
To: Geoengineering@googlegroups.com
Subject: [geo] Some say we can ‘solar-engineer’ ourselves out of the climate 
crisis. Don’t buy it Ray Pierrehumbert and Michael Mann

This email was sent to you by someone outside the University.
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https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/apr/22/climate-crisis-emergency-earth-day

Some say we can ‘solar-engineer’ ourselves out of the climate crisis. Don’t buy 
it
Ray Pierrehumbert and Michael 
Mann



What could go wrong with this idea? Well, quite a lot
[Image removed by sender. A coal-fired power station near Liverpool, England.]
‘The heating effect of carbon dioxide persists for ten thousand years or more, 
absent unproven technologies for scrubbing carbon dioxide out of the 
atmosphere.’ Photograph: Phil Noble/ReutersAs we arrive at Earth Day, there is 
renewed hope in the battle to avert catastrophic climate change. Under newly 
elected president Joe Biden, the US has reasserted global 
leadership
 in this defining challenge of our time, bringing world leaders together in 
Washington this 
week
 to galvanize the global effort to ramp down carbon emissions in the decade 
ahead.


So there is promise. But there is also great peril looming in the foreground.

Just as the world, at long last, is getting its act together, an ominous 
sun-dimming cloud has appeared on the 
horizon,
 threatening to derail these nascent efforts. That cloud comes in the form of 
technologies whose proponents call – somewhat deceptively – “solar 
geoengineering”.

So-called “solar geoengineering” doesn’t actually modify the sun itself. 
Instead, it reduces incoming sunlight by other means, such as putting chemicals 
in the atmosphere that reflect sunlight to space. It addresses a symptom of 
global heating, rather than the root cause, which is human-caused increase in 
the atmosphere’s burden of carbon dioxide.

While it is certainly true that reducing sunlight can cause cooling (we know 
that from massive but episodic volcanic eruptions such as Pinatubo in 1991), it 
acts on a very different part of the climate system than carbon dioxide. And 
efforts to offset carbon dioxide-caused warming with sunlight reduction would 
yield a very different 
climate, perhaps one unlike any seen before in Earth’s history, with massive 
shifts in atmospheric circulation and rainfall patterns and possible worsening 
of droughts.

What could possibly go wrong? 
Elizabeth Kolbert’s book Under a White 
Sky
 documents case after case where supposedly benign environmental interventions 
have had unintended consequences requiring layer after layer of escalating 
further technological interventions to avert disaster. When the impacts are 
local, as in Australia’s struggle to deal with consequences of deliberate 
introduction of the cane toad, the spread of catastrophe can be contained (so 
far, at least). But what happens when the unintended consequences afflict the 
entire planet?

Then there is the mismatch of time scales. The heating effect of carbon dioxide 
persists for 10,000 years or more, absent unproven technologies for scrubbing 
carbon dioxide out of the atmosphere. In contrast, the sun-dimming particles in 
question drop out in a year or less, meaning that if you come to rely on 
geoengineering for survival, you need to keep it up essentially forever. Think 
of it as climate methadone.

And if we are ever forced to stop, we are hit with dangerous withdrawal 
symptoms – a catastrophic “termination shock” wherein a century of pent-up 
global heating emerges within a decade. Some proponents insist we can 

[geo] RE: How to make things much whiter?

[SALTER Stephen]

Albert

Once a cloud drop is over the Kohler hump the diameter can grow or shrink 
depending on the local relative humidity which is driven by temperature which 
in the short term is driven by altitude.  I think that this means that we do 
not have much control of drop size.

If wave lengths are evenly spread over a wide range I do understand how we can 
make each wave length go to the right size of paint particle.  Are they using 
multiple transparent layers of varying particle size?

Stephen

From: Veli Albert Kallio 
Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2021 9:24 AM
To: Geoengineering FIPC 
Cc: SALTER Stephen ; John Nissen 
Subject: How to make things much whiter?

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According this newly invented pigment the secret of whiter than white lies on 
particles being different sizes to suit sunlight wavelengths

"And we use lots of different sizes of particles, because sunlight has 
different colours at the different wavelength."

How much each particle scatters light depends on its size, "so we deliberately 
used different particle sizes to scatter each wavelength".
The uniform particle size seems to increase absorption on sunlight. Can cloud 
droplets be made on engineered sizes to raise reflectivity?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-56749105
[Image removed by 
sender.]<https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-56749105>
'Whitest ever' paint reflects 98% of sunlight - BBC 
News<https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-56749105>
Vantablack's developers, a company called Surrey NanoSystems, said the 
exclusivity deal with Mr Kapoor would not preclude the whitest white being 
displayed alongside the blackest black in a museum.
www.bbc.co.uk

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RE: [geo] National Academy briefing re: geoengineering governing happening right now

[SALTER Stephen]

Hi All

I wonder why they did not include a reference to doi.org/10.5194/acp-2017-629

Stephen Salter
Emeritus Professor of Engineering Design
School of Engineering
Mayfield Road  EH9 3 DW
University of Edinburgh
Scotland.
Tel 0131 662 1180
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBB6WtH_Ni8




From: geoengineering@googlegroups.com  On 
Behalf Of Robert Kennedy
Sent: 25 March 2021 16:07
To: geoengineering 
Subject: [geo] National Academy briefing re: geoengineering governing happening 
right now

This email was sent to you by someone outside the University.
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is genuine and the content is safe.
https://www.eventbrite.com/e/reflecting-sunlight-report-release-tickets-145868401315?aff=odeimcmailchimp_cid=3ab7b3aca2_eid=718c68cad6
On Wednesday, March 24, 2021 at 3:47:28 AM UTC-4 Andrew Lockley wrote:
CSSN Position Paper 2021:2
Solar Geoengineering Research in the
United States: Key Critical Questions
In anticipation of the March 25th release of the National Academies report: 
Reflecting Sunlight:
Recommendations for Solar Geoengineering Research and Research Governance, this 
brief primer
outlines three areas of key questions to ask about any effort to advance solar 
geoengineering
research using public funds.
Background
Solar geoengineering, also referred to by the National Academies of Science, 
Engineering and Medicine
(NASEM) as sunlight reflection or climate intervention, comprises prospective 
technologies that could
potentially cool the planet by reflecting sunlight back to space (or, more 
technically, ‘modifying Earth’s
albedo’).
1 Proposed strategies include spraying aerosols into the stratosphere to block 
incoming sunlight
(this is the leading solar geoengineering proposal known as Stratospheric 
Aerosol Injection (SAI)),
enhancing the reflectivity of clouds over the ocean, and increasing the 
reflectivity of the Arctic by spreading
glass microspheres across the ice. Once on the fringes of climate policy, solar 
geoengineering is gaining
traction, particularly in the United States, where some are calling for 
substantial public investment in solar
geoengineering research.
2 During the past five years, the U.S. has become the world leader in solar
geoengineering research, with multiple philanthropic efforts funding research 
at major universities,
including Harvard, where researchers are preparing to launch the first outdoor 
field experiments testing SAI
technology in Sweden during summer 2021.
3
These philanthropic-academic research efforts are expanding into federal 
policy, with Congressional
appropriation of $4 million to NOAA to advance solar geoengineering research,
4 calls for a ten-fold increase
in that funding from high-level science advisors in the Biden Administration,
5 and the forthcoming National
Academies (NASEM) report, which is expected to propose guidance on federal 
funding, research, and
governance of solar geoengineering in the U.S.
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RE: [geo] How the shipping industry can halve climate-warming black carbon in the Arctic

[SALTER Stephen]

Hi All

Here is something from Greenland relevant to Andrew’s message. Some could be 
ash from volcanos.

[cid:image001.jpg@01D7215C.22813580]

Stephen Salter
Emeritus Professor of Engineering Design
School of Engineering
Mayfield Road  EH9 3 DW
University of Edinburgh
Scotland.
Tel 0131 662 1180
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBB6WtH_Ni8




From: geoengineering@googlegroups.com  On 
Behalf Of Andrew Lockley
Sent: 25 March 2021 09:28
To: geoengineering 
Subject: [geo] How the shipping industry can halve climate-warming black carbon 
in the Arctic

This email was sent to you by someone outside the University.
You should only click on links or attachments if you are certain that the email 
is genuine and the content is safe.

https://www.climatechangenews.com/2021/03/18/shipping-industry-can-halve-climate-warming-black-carbon-arctic/

How the shipping industry can halve climate-warming black carbon in the Arctic
Published on 18/03/2021, 4:22pm
Switching to cleaner shipping fuel would prevent Arctic warming and deliver an 
easy win for the climate


With sea ice in retreat, the Arctic is opening up to shipping and exploitation 
(Pic: Patrick Kelley, US Coast Guard)

By Sian Prior

Climate change is having a more rapid impact in the Arctic than anywhere else 
right now – the recent cold weather that blanketed North America and Europe, 
and caused chaos in places like Texas, has been linked to the consequences of a 
warming Arctic. What happens in the Arctic doesn’t stay in the Arctic – changes 
taking place in the north will have repercussions further south.

While there is widespread awareness of how greenhouse gas emissions drive 
global climate warming, what is less well known is how emissions of black 
carbon particles from forest fires, wood stoves, flaring, energy generation and 
transport, including shipping, contribute to Arctic warming.

Although shipping contributes just 2% of the black carbon emitted in the 
Arctic, it has a much greater heating impact. When emitted by ships in and near 
the Arctic, black carbon particles enter the lower levels of the atmosphere, 
where they remain for under two weeks, absorbing heat.

But it eventually comes to land on snow or ice, black carbon’s warming impact 
is 7 to 10 times greater, as it reduces the reflectivity (albedo) and continues 
to absorb heat, accelerating the Arctic melt.

While most anthropogenic sources of black carbon pollution are being reduced in 
the Arctic, shipping emissions of black carbon have risen globally in the past 
decade, and in the Arctic by 85% between 2015 and 2019 alone.

With climate warming driving the ongoing loss of multi-season Arctic sea ice, 
the region is opening up to more shipping traffic; with a five-fold increase is 
expected by 2050, we can expect that further increases in black carbon 
emissions from shipping will only further fuel an already accelerating feedback 
loop.

Mauritius oil spill: questions mount over ship fuel safety

Around the world, ships typically burn the cheapest and dirtiest fuel left over 
from the oil refining process – heavy fuel oil (HFO), which produces high 
levels of black carbon when burned. About 7-21% of global shipping’s climate 
warming impacts can be attributed to black carbon – the remainder being CO2.

In November 2020, the International Maritime Organization (IMO), the UN body 
which governs shipping, approved a ban on the use and carriage of HFO in the 
Arctic – a ban that is set to be adopted this June.

Although environmental and Indigenous groups fought for years for the Arctic to 
be free of HFO, the ban, set to be agreed in June 2021, contains serious 
loopholes, which, when implemented, will likely translate to minimal reductions 
in the use and carriage of HFO in 2024.

 Meanwhile, current growth in Arctic shipping is likely to lead to an increase 
in HFO use and carriage in the Arctic between now and mid-2024, when the ban 
takes effect and further growth by mid-2029, when the loopholes will finally be 
closed. Under this regime, black carbon emissions will, for now, continue to 
increase in the Arctic.

When the IMO’s Pollution Prevention and Response Sub-Committee meets on March 
22nd for PPR 8, black carbon will be on the agenda. The IMO has been wrestling 
with what to do with regard to black carbon for over a decade now – but so far 
has taken no concrete action to reduce emissions.

Scientists push to add “huge” fish trawling emissions to national inventories

During PPR8, IMO member states have the chance to end this stasis. By putting 
in place regulations that cut emissions of black carbon from shipping the 
Arctic, the IMO can have a rapid and effective impact on black carbon 
emissions. The fix is simple – by moving the shipping industry to distillate 
fuels, such as diesel or marine gas oil (MGO), or other cleaner energy sources, 
for vessels operating in or near the Arctic, immediately reduce black carbon 
emissions in the Arctic by around an incredible 

RE: [geo] The response of terrestrial ecosystem carbon cycling under different aerosol-based radiation management geoengineering

[SALTER Stephen]

Hi All

Like several previous workers the authors of the paper, use the 
accumulation-mode spread of aerosol size between latitudes 45 N and 45 S all 
the time at a rate to offset RCP 8.5.

The effort or cost needed for marine cloud brightening is in proportion the 
volume of water that we have to filter and spray.  The value of what the spray 
does depends on the number of successful nucleations.

We think that the right size of aerosol salt particle has a mass of 10^ -14 
grams.  If it was a completely dry sphere its diameter would be about 200 
nanometres but it is more likely to be a brick shape in strong brine.

The graph below from Wikipedia shows that 200 nanometres is at the bottom of 
the slope of the accumulation mode. The top of the accumulation mode is at 
about 1.2 microns.  The cube of the ratio of diameters is 216. This means that 
using the full spread of the accumulation mode will involve making some 
condensation nuclei far bigger, and so more expensive, than we actually need.

[cid:image002.jpg@01D71763.E079D180]

As second reason is that the Stokes drag tending to accelerate a drop in 
turbulent flow on depends on diameter not projected area while the inertia 
opposing acceleration depends on the cube.  If drops of spray in a turbulent 
air stream have a wide spread of inertias they will also have a wide spread of 
relative velocities and so more chance of coalescence.

A third reason in favour of a monodisperse spray is that heavier condensation 
nuclei will nucleate at a lower relative humidity than lighter ones.  This will 
suck water vapour from the surrounding air and so reduce its relative humidity 
and make it harder for the small ones to nucleate.  The transfer rate of water 
vapour depends of vapour pressure difference and surface area.   Being big 
earlier than rival nuclei gives a further advantage.  This is the same with 
wolves and hyenas.

It might be convenient for climate modellers to use the wide spread of 
standard, naturally-occurring aerosol built into modelling software but please, 
please, please could somebody try monodisperse spray to avoid errors of 200.
Please also give us  an opinion about whether 10 ^ -14 grams is the right 
choice.  Can we reduce coalescence even further with electrostatic charge?


Stephen Salter
Emeritus Professor of Engineering Design
School of Engineering
Mayfield Road  EH9 3 DW
University of Edinburgh
Scotland.
Tel 0131 662 1180

From: geoengineering@googlegroups.com  On 
Behalf Of Andrew Lockley
Sent: 11 March 2021 21:14
To: geoengineering ; 
carbondioxideremo...@googlegroups.com  

Subject: [geo] The response of terrestrial ecosystem carbon cycling under 
different aerosol-based radiation management geoengineering

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https://esd.copernicus.org/articles/12/313/2021/

Earth Syst. Dynam., 12, 313–326, 2021
https://doi.org/10.5194/esd-12-313-2021
© Author(s) 2021. This work is distributed under the Creative Commons 
Attribution 4.0 License.

Research article | 11 Mar 2021

The response of terrestrial ecosystem carbon cycling under different 
aerosol-based radiation management geoengineering
Hanna Lee et al.
Show author details
Received: 20 Jul 2020 – Discussion started: 31 Jul 2020 – Revised: 09 Feb 2021 
– Accepted: 10 Feb 2021 – Published: 11 Mar 2021
Abstract
Geoengineering has been discussed as a potential option to offset the global 
impacts of anthropogenic climate change and at the same time reach the global 
temperature targets of the Paris Agreement. Before any implementation of 
geoengineering, however, the complex natural responses and consequences of such 
methods should be fully understood to avoid any unexpected and potentially 
degrading impacts. Here we assess the changes in ecosystem carbon exchange and 
storage among different terrestrial biomes under three aerosol-based radiation 
management methods with the baseline of RCP8.5 using an Earth system model 
(NorESM1-ME). All three methods used in this study (stratospheric aerosol 
injection, marine sky brightening, cirrus cloud thinning) target the global 
mean radiation balance at the top of the atmosphere to reach that of the RCP4.5 
scenario. The three radiation management (RM) methods investigated in this 
study show vastly different precipitation patterns, especially in the tropical 
forest biome. Precipitation differences from the three RM methods result in 
large variability in global vegetation carbon uptake and storage. Our findings 
show that there are unforeseen regional consequences under geoengineering, and 
these consequences should be taken into account in future climate policies as 
they have a substantial impact on terrestrial ecosystems. Although changes in 
temperature and precipitation play a large role in vegetation carbon uptake and 
storage, our results show that CO2 

[geo] G5 Phase adjustment

[SALTER Stephen]

Dear Dr Adeniyi

Following your paper in SN Applied Sciences I am writing to ask if you could 
test the effects of changing the phase and amplitude of sea salt injections 
relative to the phase of the monsoons.  The short life of  spray and the 
mobility of spray vessels might give you a valuable control. It would strange 
if effects were the same all the year round.

Best wishes

Stephen Salter
Emeritus Professor of Engineering Design
School of Engineering
Mayfield Road  EH9 3 DW
University of Edinburgh
Scotland.
Tel 0131 662 1180

The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in Scotland, with 
registration number SC005336. Is e buidheann carthannais a th' ann an Oilthigh 
Dh?n ?ideann, cl?raichte an Alba, ?ireamh cl?raidh SC005336.

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RE: [geo] Under a White Sky

[SALTER Stephen]

Hi All

This may be  an over simplification.  It depends on what you spray where in the 
atmosphere and which bit of sky.  Sea salt in the troposphere makes the tops of 
clouds over the sea, which were already white, a bit whiter but does not affect 
blue skies or clouds over land where most people live.

Changes to rainfall patterns following a rather simple spray plan are shown 
below from Stjern et al. 2018.

[cid:image004.jpg@01D70096.1C486580]

With more complicated spraying in different seasons and regions we can tweak 
monsoons and the Indian Ocean dipole.


Stephen Salter
Emeritus Professor of Engineering Design
School of Engineering
Mayfield Road  EH9 3 DW
University of Edinburgh
Scotland.
Tel 0131 662 1180

From: geoengineering@googlegroups.com  On 
Behalf Of Alan Robock ?
Sent: 11 February 2021 15:59
To: Geoengineering 
Subject: [geo] Under a White Sky

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It's nice to be mentioned in today's New York Times review of "Under a White 
Sky"  
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/10/books/review-under-white-sky-elizabeth-kolbert.html

The title of Kolbert’s book comes from one possible side-effect of “solar 
geoengineering” (or “solar radiation management,” in what’s supposed to be the 
less scary parlance). Spraying light-reflective particles into the atmosphere 
will make blue skies look white. One climate scientist keeps a running list of 
concerns about geoengineering. No. 1 is the worry that a disruption of rainfall 
patterns could cause drought in Africa and Asia. No. 28 is the philosophical 
quandary looming over it all: “Do humans have the right to do this?”
--

Alan

Alan Robock, Distinguished Professor
  Chair-Elect, AGU College of Fellows
  Associate Editor, Reviews of Geophysics
Department of Environmental Sciences Phone: +1-848-932-5751
Rutgers UniversityE-mail: 
rob...@envsci.rutgers.edu
14 College Farm Roadhttp://people.envsci.rutgers.edu/robock
New Brunswick, NJ 08901-8551 ☮ https://twitter.com/AlanRobock

"I've got a feeling 21 is going to be a good year" - The Who from the album 
Tommy

[Signature]

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RE: [geo] Extreme climate response to marine cloud brightening in the arid Sahara-Sahel-Arabian Peninsula zone

[SALTER Stephen]

Hi All

If my decrypting of the Met. Speak encoding is correct this sounds quite 
encouraging.  The 50% increase in nuclei concentration under clouds is quite a 
modest dose. Working at latitudes between 30N and 30S at the same spray with 
the full dispersion width of the accumulation mode of aerosol sizes is so 
boring.  It would interesting to know what the concentrations were before 
treatment so that we could calculate the amount spray and the number of spray 
vessels needed.

If the concentrations were like the ones given by Vallina in 
doi:10.1029/2006GB002787 and the spray was monodisperse with a liquid diameter 
of 0.8 microns so as to avoid wasting energy on spraying salt mass very much 
heavier than Kohler would recommend,  we would need about a hundred vessels 
spraying  15 kg of water per second.

They will not all be working at full power and not all in the right place at 
the right time but some of this would be offset by an even more sophisticated 
planning of vessel movements based on real-time satellite observations and 
clever climate planners with ginormous quantum computers.  I predict that they 
would find the temperature gradients across oceans a very useful guide.

Stephen

Emeritus Professor of Engineering Design
School of Engineering
Mayfield Road  EH9 3 DW
University of Edinburgh
Scotland.
Tel 0131 662 1180

From: geoengineering@googlegroups.com  On 
Behalf Of Andrew Lockley
Sent: 09 February 2021 15:27
To: geoengineering 
Subject: [geo] Extreme climate response to marine cloud brightening in the arid 
Sahara-Sahel-Arabian Peninsula zone

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Extreme climate response to
marine cloud brightening in the
arid Sahara-Sahel-Arabian
Peninsula zone
Yuanzhuo Zhu
Climate Modeling Laboratory, School of Mathematics, Shandong University,
Jinan, China
Zhihua Zhang
Climate Modeling Laboratory, School of Mathematics, Shandong University,
Jinan, China and MOE Key Laboratory of Environmental Change and Natural
Disaster, Beijing Normal University, China, and
M. James C. Crabbe
Wolfson College, Oxford University, Oxford, UK; Institute of Biomedical and
Environmental Science and Technology, University of Bedfordshire, Luton, UK
and School of Life Sciences, Shanxi University, Taiyuan, China
Abstract
Purpose – Climatic extreme events are predicted to occur more frequently and 
intensely and will significantly
threat the living of residents in arid and semi-arid regions. Therefore, this 
study aims to assess climatic extremes’
response to the emerging climate change mitigation strategy using a marine 
cloud brightening (MCB) scheme.
Design/methodology/approach – Based on Hadley Centre Global Environmental Model 
version 2-
Earth System model simulations of a MCB scheme, this study used six climatic 
extreme indices [i.e. the hottest
days (TXx), the coolest nights (TNn), the warm spell duration (WSDI), the cold 
spell duration (CSDI), the
consecutive dry days (CDD) and wettest consecutive five days (RX5day)] to 
analyze spatiotemporal evolution
of climate extreme events in the arid Sahara-Sahel-Arabian Peninsula Zone with 
and without MCB
implementation.
Findings – Compared with a Representative Concentration Pathways 4.5 scenario, 
from 2030 to 2059,
implementation of MCB is predicted to decrease the mean annual TXx and TNn 
indices by 0.4–1.7 and 0.3–
2.1°C, respectively, for most of the Sahara-Sahel-Arabian Peninsula zone. It 
would also shorten the mean
annual WSDI index by 118–183 days and the mean annual CSDI index by only 1–3 
days, especially in the
southern Sahara-Sahel-Arabian Peninsula zone. In terms of extreme 
precipitation, MCB could also decrease
the mean annual CDD index by 5–25 days in the whole Sahara and Sahel belt and 
increase the mean annual
RX5day index by approximately 10 mm in the east part of the Sahel belt during 
2030–2059.
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RE: [geo] Forcing Dependence of Atmospheric Lapse Rate Changes Dominates Residual Polar Warming in Solar Radiation Management Climate Scenarios

[SALTER Stephen]

Hi All
Some confusion would be avoided if the abstract mentioned which flavour of SRM 
was being studied.
Stephen

From: geoengineering@googlegroups.com  On 
Behalf Of Andrew Lockley
Sent: 16 January 2021 08:00
To: geoengineering 
Subject: [geo] Forcing Dependence of Atmospheric Lapse Rate Changes Dominates 
Residual Polar Warming in Solar Radiation Management Climate Scenarios

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https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1029/2020GL087929

Forcing Dependence of Atmospheric Lapse Rate Changes Dominates Residual Polar 
Warming in Solar Radiation Management Climate Scenarios
Matthew Henry  Timothy M. Merlis
First published: 19 July 2020
https://doi.org/10.1029/2020GL087929
About
Sections


Share on
Abstract
Simulations of solar radiation management (SRM) geoengineering using 
comprehensive general circulation models show a residual surface warming at 
high latitudes. Previous work attributes this to the difference in forcing 
structure between the increase in greenhouse gases and decrease in insolation, 
but this neglects the role of the induced reduction in atmospheric energy 
transport. Here we show that the difference in vertical structure of 
temperature change between increasing CO2, decreasing insolation, and 
decreasing atmospheric energy transport is the dominant reason for the residual 
near‐surface warming at high latitudes. A single‐column model (SCM) is used to 
decompose the high‐latitude temperature change and shows the importance of the 
enhanced near‐surface warming from the CO2 increase in explaining the residual 
polar warming. This suite of models invites caution when attributing 
high‐latitude surface temperature changes to the lapse rate feedback, as 
various forcings and nonlocal processes affect the vertical structure of 
temperature change differently.

Plain Language Summary
Solar radiation management (SRM) geoengineering has been proposed as a way of 
counteracting the warming effects of increasing greenhouse gases by reflecting 
solar radiation. When the carbon dioxide concentration (CO2) is quadrupled and 
the solar constant is reduced in climate models to reach zero global mean 
surface temperature change, there is still residual warming in polar regions. 
Previous analyses suggested that it was caused by the latitudinal difference in 
forcing between the CO2 increase and insolation reduction. This work shows the 
importance of the differences in vertical structure of atmospheric temperature 
change between the CO2 increase and solar radiation reduction in explaining 
this residual polar warming. This underlines the importance of considering the 
vertical structure of temperature change caused by a given forcing when trying 
to understand what shapes the pattern of surface temperature change.
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[geo] Biggest iceberg

[SALTER Stephen]

Hi All

If you are into icebergs check out

https://www.maritime-executive.com/article/world-s-largest-iceberg-breaks-apart-menacing-southern-ocean

Most sailors try not to be.

Stephen Salter
Emeritus Professor of Engineering Design
School of Engineering
Mayfield Road  EH9 3 DW
University of Edinburgh
Scotland.
Tel 0131 662 1180

The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in Scotland, with 
registration number SC005336.

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[geo] Marine cloud brightening

[SALTER Stephen]

Dear Cynthia

I have seen your comments about marine cloud brightening. It can be used to put 
sea surface temperatures back to where they used to be. This ought to be better 
than unbridled increases.

Salt is medicinally benign and free.  Clouds are abundant and self-cleaning.  
All the power comes from the wind.  The amount of salt it would use can be 
compared to the amount already being thrown up by breaking waves in the slide 
below.

[cid:image003.jpg@01D6CEE6.47D268E0]
The red dots are all the estimates in a collection by  Lewis and Schwartz 
plotted against the year they were made.  The blue circle is the mean value of 
5.4 Gigatonne.

Instead of the wide range of sizes of natural spray, we would generate a very 
narrow spread of diameters at exactly the sweet spot for successful nucleation 
of cloud drops.  The solar energy that is reflected by a cloud drop is many 
tens of millions of times more than the energy needed to make the nucleus on 
which it grew.

About 300 spray vessels could offset the thermal damage since preindustrial 
times. We might need a thousand if we continue to be criminally insane.   The 
amount of salt needed for this is shown by the thickening of the black line on 
the X-axis between 1960 and 2000.  This change may not be detectable on your 
screen.

The short life of spray, only a few days, and the mobility of spray vessels 
means that we have a high frequency control system with powerful brakes for an 
emergency stop.  By choosing the place and season of the spraying we can target 
different objectives such as loss of Arctic ice and coral, hurricane moderation 
or the balance between floods in Africa and bush fires in Australia. A side 
effect of any of these would be a reversal of sea level rise. It would take 
quite  a while, about 20 years but the benefit to cost ratio would be 
attractive.  Please let me know if you would like to check the calculations for 
these or suggest changes to the input assumptions.

I expect that most of your members would approve of these results.  Do  they 
realize that your work might prevent them?

Breathe safely

Stephen Salter
Emeritus Professor of Engineering Design
School of Engineering
Mayfield Road  EH9 3 DW
University of Edinburgh
Scotland.
Tel 0131 662 1180

The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in Scotland, with 
registration number SC005336.

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RE: [geo] Reduction of the future Greenland ice sheet surface melt with the help of solar geoengineering

[SALTER Stephen]

Hi All

The highest estimate for Greenland ice sheet loss is 325 billion tonnes a year.

If I multiply this by the latent heat of fusion of ice and divide by the area 
of Greenland 2.166 million square kilometres I get 1.59 watts per square metre. 
 I think that this could be done by marine cloud brightening in just a month 
either side of midsummer provided that we can cool other places at the same 
time to reduce problems of controlling direction.

How do we square this with 40?

Please do not use this to reduce the need for CO2 removal.

Stephen

From: geoengineering@googlegroups.com  On 
Behalf Of Andrew Lockley
Sent: 06 December 2020 13:28
To: geoengineering 
Subject: [geo] Reduction of the future Greenland ice sheet surface melt with 
the help of solar geoengineering

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https://tc.copernicus.org/preprints/tc-2020-347/

Brief Communication: Reduction of the future Greenland ice sheet surface melt 
with the help of solar geoengineering
Xavier Fettweis et al.
Received: 25 Nov 2020 – Accepted for review: 03 Dec 2020 – Discussion started: 
04 Dec 2020
Abstract. The Greenland Ice Sheet (GrIS) will be losing mass at an accelerating 
pace throughout the 21st century, with a direct link between anthropogenic 
greenhouse gas emissions and the magnitude of Greenland mass loss. Currently, 
approximately 60 % of the mass loss contribution comes from surface melt and 
subsequent meltwater runoff, while 40 % are due to ice calving. Where most of 
the surface melt occurs (in the ablation zone), most of the energy for the 
surface melt is provided by absorbed shortwave fluxes, which could be reduced 
by solar geoengineering measures. However, so far very little is known about 
the potential impacts of an artificial reduction of the incoming solar 
radiation on the GrIS surface energy budget and the subsequent change in 
meltwater production. By forcing the regional climate model MAR with the latest 
CMIP6 future scenarios ssp245, ssp585 and associated G6solar experiment from 
the Earth System Model CNRM-ESM2-1, we evaluate the local changes due to the 
reduction of the solar constant on the projected GrIS surface mass balance 
(SMB) decrease. Overall, our results show that even in case of low mitigation 
greenhouse gas emissions scenario (ssp585), the Greenland surface mass loss can 
be brought in line with the medium mitigation emissions scenario (ssp245) by 
reducing the solar downward flux at the top of the atmosphere by ~40 W/m2 or 
~1.5 % (using the G6solar experiment). In addition to reduce Global Warming in 
line with ssp245, G6solar also decreases the efficiency of surface meltwater 
production over the Greenland ice sheet by damping the well-known positive 
melt-albedo feedback which mitigates the projected Greenland ice sheet surface 
melt increase by 6 %. However, only more constraining geoengineering 
experiments than G6solar allows to maintain positive SMB till the end of this 
century without any reduction in our greenhouse gas emissions.

How to cite: Fettweis, X., Hofer, S., Séférian, R., Amory, C., Delhasse, A., 
Doutreloup, S., Kittel, C., Lang, C., Van Bever, J., Veillon, F., and Irvine, 
P.: Brief Communication: Reduction of the future Greenland ice sheet surface 
melt with the help of solar geoengineering, The Cryosphere Discuss., 
https://doi.org/10.5194/tc-2020-347, in review, 2020
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[geo] FW: Meeting of RMetS on Tuesday 8th December

[SALTER Stephen]

From: Richard Tabony 
Sent: 30 November 2020 10:35
To: Richard Tabony 
Subject: Meeting of RMetS on Tuesday 8th December

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ROYAL METEOROLOGICAL SOCIETY, SCOTTISH CENTRE



MARINE CLOUD BRIGHTENING AS AN EMERGENCY BRAKE ON

CLIMATE DISASTER



PROF. STEPHEN SALTER MBE, UNIVERSITY OF EDINBURGH



VIRTUAL MEETING, 6 PM TUESDAY 8 DECEMBER



SPEAKER



Stephen Salter is Emeritus Professor of Engineering Design at the University of

Edinburgh. After an apprenticeship in the aircraft industry as fitter and 
toolmaker

making parts for the SR177 supersonic rocket fighter and the Skeeter 
helicopter, he

worked on instrumentation for the Hovercraft and the Black Knight rocket. He 
read

Natural Sciences at Cambridge and stayed to work as inventor's mate for Richard

Gregory making a solid-image microscope, astronomical instruments and noise

recording from bird's eggs. He moved with Gregory to Artificial Intelligence in

Edinburgh to make the Freddie robot and an early touch screen on the absurd

assumption that children might one day have access to computers. Following the

cancellation of the artificial intelligence programme he moved to Mechanical

Engineering to work on energy from wind, waves and tidal streams. Projects 
include

wave tanks, desalination, voter-friendly traffic congestion charging, computer 
controlled

hydraulics, flood prevention, mine clearance, suppressing explosions,

nuclear disarmament, increasing the capacity of road bridges, hydrogen-fuelled

aircraft and now on the design of seagoing hardware for Latham's proposals to 
reverse

global warming by making clouds whiter. Reports of his retirement are 
exaggerated.



ABSTRACT



The global reduction in emissions of greenhouse gases that can be achieved by

societies may not prove sufficient to prevent severe global warming. More

intervention may be required and a possible method was proposed by John Latham 
in

1990. This involves increasing the reflectivity of clouds over oceans by 
altering the

size distribution of cloud droplets - a large number of small drops increases

reflectivity. Drop formation requires a condensation nucleus and Latham 
suggested

spraying sub-micron drops of filtered seawater into the marine boundary layer.

Kohler showed that salt residues make ideal nuclei and these could be provided 
by

wind-driven vessels cruising the oceans. The energy needed to make a drop of 
spray

is very small compared with the solar energy that a full-size cloud drop can 
reflect

back to space. Computer models show that spraying about 10 cubic metres of sea

water a second, in the right places at the right seasons from a fleet of some 
hundreds

of vessels, could offset the thermal damage we have created since 
pre-industrial times.

The presentation will describe the engineering problems and possible solutions.



This will be a 45 min talk followed by a 15 min Q The meeting will open from

5:50 pm for attendees to join and the event will start promptly at 6 pm. Please

register for the event on www.rmets.org and join the 
meeting using Google Chrome.

Please note that joining instructions will not be provided unless you have 
registered.

The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in Scotland, with 
registration number SC005336.

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RE: [geo] State commissioning of Solar Radiation Management geoengineering: Ethics, Policy & Environment

[SALTER Stephen]

Andrew

Hope that is not costing you anything.

Stephen

From: Andrew Lockley 
Sent: 23 November 2020 20:15
To: SALTER Stephen 
Cc: geoengineering 
Subject: Re: [geo] State commissioning of Solar Radiation Management 
geoengineering: Ethics, Policy & Environment

This email was sent to you by someone outside the University.
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Earlier version attached. Not checked.

On Mon, 23 Nov 2020, 12:34 SALTER Stephen, 
mailto:s.sal...@ed.ac.uk>> wrote:
Hi All

Is £195 for an electronic download a record?

Stephen

From: geoengineering@googlegroups.com<mailto:geoengineering@googlegroups.com> 
mailto:geoengineering@googlegroups.com>> On 
Behalf Of Andrew Lockley
Sent: 23 November 2020 11:11
To: geoengineering 
mailto:geoengineering@googlegroups.com>>
Subject: [geo] State commissioning of Solar Radiation Management 
geoengineering: Ethics, Policy & Environment

This email was sent to you by someone outside the University.
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https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/21550085.2020.1848176?journalCode=cepe21

State commissioning of Solar Radiation Management geoengineering
Andrew Lockley ORCID Icon
Received 13 May 2018, Accepted 16 Oct 2019, Accepted author version posted 
online: 22 Nov 2020
Download citation
https://doi.org/10.1080/21550085.2020.1848176

Abstract
Solar Radiation Management (SRM) is a proposed response to Anthropogenic Global 
Warming (AGW)[1][2]. Other papers consider private SRM provision[3], eg via 
Voluntary Carbon Offsets (VCO).[4] Limited VCO markets[5] would under-supply 
SRM, so state provision or mandating is possible. Public funding does not 
presume state execution; private subcontracting is feasible. Notwithstanding 
concerns about privatisation, we assume state commissioning of SRM - proposing 
and analysing plausible governance, by adapting extant proposals[6]. We 
consider two regulatory functions: legal/corporate; and scientific/technical. 
We briefly discuss mandatory, emissions-linked SRM funding[7] [8]. State 
contracting is deemed plausible, eg for historic emissions. For future 
emissions, mandatory polluter-pays SRM may be preferable.

Keywords: SRM, Solar Radiation Management, Procurement, Regulation, VCO, 
Voluntary Carbon Offset, Geoengineering
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RE: [geo] State commissioning of Solar Radiation Management geoengineering: Ethics, Policy & Environment

[SALTER Stephen]

Hi All

Is £195 for an electronic download a record?

Stephen

From: geoengineering@googlegroups.com  On 
Behalf Of Andrew Lockley
Sent: 23 November 2020 11:11
To: geoengineering 
Subject: [geo] State commissioning of Solar Radiation Management 
geoengineering: Ethics, Policy & Environment

This email was sent to you by someone outside the University.
You should only click on links or attachments if you are certain that the email 
is genuine and the content is safe.
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/21550085.2020.1848176?journalCode=cepe21

State commissioning of Solar Radiation Management geoengineering
Andrew Lockley ORCID Icon
Received 13 May 2018, Accepted 16 Oct 2019, Accepted author version posted 
online: 22 Nov 2020
Download citation
https://doi.org/10.1080/21550085.2020.1848176

Abstract
Solar Radiation Management (SRM) is a proposed response to Anthropogenic Global 
Warming (AGW)[1][2]. Other papers consider private SRM provision[3], eg via 
Voluntary Carbon Offsets (VCO).[4] Limited VCO markets[5] would under-supply 
SRM, so state provision or mandating is possible. Public funding does not 
presume state execution; private subcontracting is feasible. Notwithstanding 
concerns about privatisation, we assume state commissioning of SRM - proposing 
and analysing plausible governance, by adapting extant proposals[6]. We 
consider two regulatory functions: legal/corporate; and scientific/technical. 
We briefly discuss mandatory, emissions-linked SRM funding[7] [8]. State 
contracting is deemed plausible, eg for historic emissions. For future 
emissions, mandatory polluter-pays SRM may be preferable.

Keywords: SRM, Solar Radiation Management, Procurement, Regulation, VCO, 
Voluntary Carbon Offset, Geoengineering
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RE: [geo] Solar geoengineering may not prevent strong warming from direct effects of CO2 on stratocumulus cloud cover

[SALTER Stephen]

Hi All

This is a very interesting result and an important warning about the dangers of 
1700 parts per million CO2.  It might be possible if difficult to selectively 
breed more intelligent politicians in the next a hundred years but we would 
need to know what to do with rejects.

I am not quite so worried about scattered stratocumulus clouds because this 
indicates  a longer life for condensation nuclei.  We want a low dose over a 
wide area and to avoid high local concentrations that we would get from a 
moving point source.  The graphs below of the Twomey effect (via Schwartz and 
Slingo) show how reflectivity changes as a function of nuclei concentration for 
different different cloud thicknesses and water contents.

[cid:image002.jpg@01D6BD1F.62B2D010]

Start on any red or blue curve near the left of the graph.  Move to the right 
along a thick black line to increase nuclei concentration and then upwards to 
get back to the curve you chose.  Then repeat moving twice as far in the nuclei 
per cm3 direction each time to get successive doublings of nuclei 
concentration.  Each doubling gives almost the same black step increase  in 
reflectivity except for the very thinnest clouds.  Cloud thickness and water 
content are less important than nuclei concentration.

Breathe safely

Stephen

From: geoengineering@googlegroups.com  On 
Behalf Of Andrew Lockley
Sent: 17 November 2020 19:38
To: geoengineering 
Subject: [geo] Solar geoengineering may not prevent strong warming from direct 
effects of CO2 on stratocumulus cloud cover

This email was sent to you by someone outside of the University.
You should only click on links or attachments if you are certain that the email 
is genuine and the content is safe.

https://www.pnas.org/content/early/2020/11/10/2003730117.short

Solar geoengineering may not prevent strong warming from direct effects of CO2 
on stratocumulus cloud cover
 View ORCID ProfileTapio Schneider,  View ORCID ProfileColleen M. Kaul, and 
Kyle G. Pressel
PNAS first published November 16, 2020; https://doi.org/10.1073/pnas.2003730117
Add to Cart ($10)
Edited by Kerry A. Emanuel, Massachusetts Institute of Technology, Cambridge, 
MA, and approved October 7, 2020 (received for review February 27, 2020)

Article Figures & SI Info & Metrics  PDF
Significance
Solar geoengineering that manipulates the amount of sunlight Earth absorbs is 
increasingly discussed as an option to counter global warming. However, we 
demonstrate that solar geoengineering is not a fail-safe option to prevent 
global warming because it does not mitigate risks to the climate system that 
arise from direct effects of greenhouse gases on cloud cover. High-resolution 
simulations of stratocumulus clouds show that clouds thin as greenhouse gases 
build up, even when warming is modest. In a scenario of solar geoengineering 
that is sustained for more than a century, this can eventually lead to breakup 
of the clouds, triggering strong (5°C), and possibly difficult to reverse, 
global warming, despite the solar geoengineering.

Abstract
Discussions of countering global warming with solar geoengineering assume that 
warming owing to rising greenhouse-gas concentrations can be compensated by 
artificially reducing the amount of sunlight Earth absorbs. However, solar 
geoengineering may not be fail-safe to prevent global warming because CO2 can 
directly affect cloud cover: It reduces cloud cover by modulating the longwave 
radiative cooling within the atmosphere. This effect is not mitigated by solar 
geoengineering. Here, we use idealized high-resolution simulations of clouds to 
show that, even under a sustained solar geoengineering scenario with initially 
only modest warming, subtropical stratocumulus clouds gradually thin and may 
eventually break up into scattered cumulus clouds, at concentrations exceeding 
1,700 parts per million (ppm). Because stratocumulus clouds cover large swaths 
of subtropical oceans and cool Earth by reflecting incident sunlight, their 
loss would trigger strong (about 5 K) global warming. Thus, the results 
highlight that, at least in this extreme and idealized scenario, solar 
geoengineering may not suffice to counter greenhouse-gas-driven global warming.

global warminggeoengineeringcloud feedback
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RE: [geo] Antipyretic Medication for a Feverish Planet Markus Stoffel, David B. Stephenson & Jim M. Haywood

[SALTER Stephen]

Hi All

Not much sign of it so far.   Neither was there after the 2008 financial 
crisis. 7.6% of 420 is 31.9.


[cid:image003.jpg@01D6B6B1.B7EEDE80]
Stephen


From: geoengineering@googlegroups.com  On 
Behalf Of Andrew Lockley
Sent: 09 November 2020 15:09
To: geoengineering 
Subject: [geo] Antipyretic Medication for a Feverish Planet Markus Stoffel, 
David B. Stephenson & Jim M. Haywood

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https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s41748-020-00182-6

Antipyretic Medication for a Feverish Planet
Markus Stoffel, David B. Stephenson & Jim M. Haywood
Earth Systems and Environment (2020)Cite this article

41 Accesses

Metricsdetails

As the coronavirus pandemic continues to unfold at a staggering pace, CO2 
emissions are in for a sharp, if temporary, decline estimated at 7% of the 2019 
annual emissions (Le Quéré et al. 2020; Carbon Brief 2020; Forster et al. 
2020). Even if this reduction is substantial, it will not suffice to reach the 
1.5 °C global temperature target of the 2015 Paris Conference of Parties 
Agreement (COP, Brown et al. 2019), as a reduction by 7.6% would be needed 
every year from today to reach net-zero emissions by 2050 (Sachs et al. 2016). 
Therefore, once the pandemic and ensuing economic lethargy are over, societies 
will need to make a crucial choice on how to reach the climate goals defined at 
the COP. Global emissions could resume if nations decided to lean heavily on 
fossil energy sources to rebuild their economies (Henry et al. 2020; Ou et al. 
2020). Under different leadership, strong governmental support for clean energy 
could tilt major economies towards a greener, more climate-friendly direction 
(Barbier 2020; Carbon Brief 2020; Rosenbloom and Markard 2020; Andrijevic et 
al. 2020).

Back in 1992, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) forecast 
carbon dioxide (CO2) concentrations under their ‘IS92a best guess’ scenario 
(Nakicenovic et al. 2003). These predictions have proved remarkably accurate; 
an analysis of the mean CO2 concentrations over the past thirty years from the 
two models available at that time (for details see IPCC 2020) indicates that 
they are never in error by more than 1.5 ppmv when compared to CO2 observations 
(NOAA 2020). CO2 concentrations are currently increasing at a rate of around 
0.5% per annum; if this continues (as they have for the last 50 years; 
Showstack 2013), atmospheric concentrations will rise from around 411 ppmv at 
current levels (their highest for the last 3 million years) to 611 ppmv by 2100 
(i.e. 411 ppmv × 0.5% annual increase × 80 years). The IS92a scenario, that has 
proved so accurate over the last thirty years, suggests an even more 
pessimistic 713 ppmv (Houghton et al. 1995; IPCC 2020). Given the remarkable 
validation and future projections of CO2 concentrations, humanity cannot say 
that they have not been warned of the impact that their activities are having. 
The scientific consensus is that, given current mitigation efforts, the Paris 
Agreement target of limiting Global Mean Surface Temperature (GMST) warming to 
1.5 °C (or even 2 °C; Masson-Delmotte et al. 2018) above pre-industrial values 
will be missed. Even if global warming continues to increase at the current 
rate of around 0.2 °C per decade, which is below the climate projection levels, 
the 1.5 °C threshold will be exceeded by 2040–50 (Masson-Delmotte et al. 2018). 
The above facts unfortunately lead to the conclusion that some 
governments—rather than reducing emissions drastically—may soon start to 
consider implementing the unpalatable option of solar radiation management 
geoengineering (Parson 2017; Schubert 2019). Although it may be a foul-tasting 
medicine, it is considered to provide considerable relief from the 
ever-increasing catalogue of damaging extreme events (Jones et al. 2018; Irvine 
et al. 2019; Irvine and Keith 2020).
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[geo] Missing ice

[SALTER Stephen]

Hi All

Mark Serreze  has a bit about Arctic ice at

https://www.maritime-executive.com/editorials/where-s-the-sea-ice-three-reasons-the-arctic-freeze-is-late-this-year

Stephen Salter
Emeritus Professor of Engineering Design
School of Engineering
Mayfield Road  EH9 3 DW
University of Edinburgh
Scotland.
Tel 0131 662 1180

The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in Scotland, with 
registration number SC005336.

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[geo] 'The Economist' Climate risk webinar

[SALTER Stephen]

Hi All

All last week 'The Economist' had a well-attended webinar about climate risk.  
For the next two weeks you can download the discussions from

https://app.swapcard.com/event/climate-risk-virtual-week?utm_campaign=EM1701%20-%20Email%201%20-%20THY%20-%20HTML%20-%20ALL_medium=email_source=Eloqua

I have some thoughts about the meeting which I sent to the organizers and will 
copy to you as follows:

All the speakers concentrated on the desperate need to get to zero carbon 
emissions as soon as possible. However, if we were able to do that, the 
concentration of atmospheric greenhouse gases will be what we have now plus 
what we will be emitting between now and the zero-emission date minus the 
(decreasing) amount taken up by the oceans.  This means that typhoons, floods, 
droughts, bushfires, sea-level rise, Arctic ice loss and damage to coral will 
all be worse, perhaps much worse than at present.  Zero is not low enough.  As 
well as reducing emissions we will have to remove greenhouse gases and also do 
direct cooling. The necessary cooling energy is enormous compared with present 
energy use but small compared with the solar input.  It follows that quite a 
small increase in planetary reflectivity could offset the thermal effects of 
the increased greenhouse gas concentration.

In 1990 John Latham pointed to work by Sean Twomey on the reflectivity of 
clouds which showed that reflectivity depends on the size distribution of cloud 
drops. For the same amount of water, a larger number of small drops will 
reflect more than a smaller number of large ones. Latham suggested that the 
reflectivity of marine clouds could be increased by a change in the 
concentration of cloud condensation nuclei by spraying drops of filtered sea 
water into the marine boundary layer where turbulence would mix them.
Several computer models confirmed Latham's proposal.  The results below are 
from Stjern et al. showing the mean of nine models in which the concentration 
of condensation nuclei was increased by 50% over cloudy ocean regions.   There 
is strong cooling around the Arctic. There are small but useful increases in 
precipitation in drought-stricken regions. Reductions in precipitation are over 
the sea. These seem beneficial but perhaps an even better result could be 
obtained with more sophisticated spray schemes.
[cid:image002.jpg@01D6A530.60C75DE0]
The spray could be produced by wind-driven vessels cruising the oceans, 
generating energy from movement through the water and migrating with the 
seasons, even close to Arctic ice for a month either side of the summer 
solstice. Work by Alterskjaer and Kristjansson showed that getting the correct 
size of drops is important with the opposite results from drops that are too 
large or too small.

Design calculations and drawings of the spray vessel are well advanced.  A few 
hundred costing about £3 million each in the right place at the right times 
could offset the thermal changes since pre-industrial times. If emissions 
continue to increase a few thousand would be necessary.  There is a need for an 
everywhere-to-everywhere season-by-season transfer function of spray to 
maximise the benefit-to-cost ratio.

'The Economist' will be holding another meeting from 30 November to 4  December 
4 the emphasis on Asia.  Details are at

https://events.economist.com/events-conferences/asia/climate-risk-summit-asia?utm_source=Eloqua=EM3816_Other_CRVW_Thank_campaign=EM1701%20-%20Email%201%20-%20THY%20-%20HTML%20-%20ALL_medium=email

Breathe safely

Stephen Salter
Emeritus Professor of Engineering Design
School of Engineering
Mayfield Road  EH9 3 DW
University of Edinburgh
Scotland.
Tel 0131 662 1180

The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in Scotland, with 
registration number SC005336.

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[geo] RE: Geoengineering paper and ground nuts

[SALTER Stephen]

Dear Huiyi

Thank you for your email about the effect of geoengineering on the failure rate 
of groundnut crops.  Please tell me if you were modelling marine cloud 
brightening, stratospheric sulphur or just turning down the solar input. Your 
paper is behind a paywall and present UK policy is hostile to my work so I have 
to watch the pennies.

A paper by Bala 10.1007/s00382-010-0868-1 says that the reduction of 
precipitation due to marine cloud brightening is very small and more than 
compensated for by the temperature reduction to give a higher river runoff.  We 
can adjust where we treat and also the phase of treatment relative to the 
monsoon cycle.  The temperature gradient of the Indian Ocean Dipole has a 
powerful influence on precipitation from Africa to Australia and we can easily 
move fleets of spray vessels, to and fro, month by month, east or west.

Work by Stern et al shows the very basic plan of spraying in just cloudy 
regions gives small but useful increases of precipitation  in the blue-green 
areas in the map below.  The main reductions are over the oceans and we could 
provide desalination plant to people in small islands.  I am sure that a better 
understanding of the climate system could produce an even more beneficial 
result.

[cid:image002.jpg@01D69B3A.64683E10]

What we really need is an everywhere-to-everywhere season-by-season transfer 
function of the entire world climate system.  It may be possible to do this in 
a few runs of a global climate model.  Would you like a paper borrowed from 
engineering on how this might be done?
Breathe safely

Stephen Salter




From: geoengineering@googlegroups.com  On 
Behalf Of yang huiyi
Sent: 05 October 2020 15:41
To: Geoengineering@googlegroups.com
Subject: [geo] Geoengineering paper

Dear all,

I would like to make you aware of a new paper we have had accepted based on 
geoengineering effects on the groundnut crop in India.   Our results indicate 
that with climate change and geoengineering climate the failure rates for south 
India are projected to significantly rise, affecting one out of every two to 
three years instead of one in every five years.  With geoengineering G3, our 
results predict that the failure rates partly reduced global warming extremes 
but still the impacts for failure rates are significant with or without 
geoengineering.

Please see more details in link below:
Title: South India projected to be susceptible to high future groundnut failure 
rates for future climate change and geo-engineered scenarios
Abstract: With an increase in global mean temperature predicted for this 
century accompanied by more frequent extremes, will farming communities need to 
brace for increased crop failures and hardship? Solar dimming climate 
geoengineering has been proposed as a possible solution to combat rising global 
temperature but what effect will it or other climate related adaptation have on 
crop failures? We performed a crop modelling study using future climate and 
geoengineering projections to investigate these questions. Our results indicate 
that groundnut crop failure rates in Southern India are very sensitive to 
climate change, and project an increase of approximately a factor of two on 
average over this century, affecting one out of every two to three years 
instead of one in every five years. We also project that solar dimming 
geoengineering will have little impact on reducing these failure rates. In 
contrast, the projections for the rest of Indian regions show decreasing 
failure rates of 20–30%. In this research, we indicate why south India is more 
susceptible than the rest of the country and show that neither Solar dimming 
geoengineering nor reducing heat or water stress are able to fully counteract 
the increase in failure rates for this region. Thus our modelling projections 
indicate the potential for a groundnut crop failure crisis for the South India.
Journal: Science of The Total Environment
Link: 
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0048969720347690

Best regards,
Huiyi



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[geo] FW: Arctic Circle VIRTUAL: New event-time

[SALTER Stephen]

From: Arctic Circle Secretariat 
Sent: 28 September 2020 15:39
To: SALTER Stephen 
Subject: Arctic Circle VIRTUAL: New event-time

[https://mcusercontent.com/a56ce2128001bdcb7974e9ea2/images/413c7784-2b90-4f54-829b-7ca697b097a8.png]

How will the Arctic be impacted by the
 U.S. Presidential Election?

NEW EVENT-TIME:

1:30 PM EDT / 5:30 PM GMT


DIALOGUE WITH
U.S. SENATOR
LISA MURKOWSKI


U.S. PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION
 Only four weeks away!

[https://mcusercontent.com/a56ce2128001bdcb7974e9ea2/images/6d8880b1-8149-48b2-be0a-5bb7bb04faaa.png]
[https://mcusercontent.com/a56ce2128001bdcb7974e9ea2/images/84340137-93e4-454d-9ac8-84b134da81ca.jpg]
[https://mcusercontent.com/a56ce2128001bdcb7974e9ea2/images/979d26c1-f253-4af6-ac84-5570d4b37175.jpg]

[https://mcusercontent.com/a56ce2128001bdcb7974e9ea2/images/dacc64d3-5b56-4342-ba1c-6ce408934805.jpg]
U.S. Senator Lisa Murkowski is considered the leader among her Congressional 
colleagues on Arctic issues. She has in recent years reached global fame due to 
her position in the U.S. Senate. She is the U.S. Representative in the Standing 
Committee of Parliamentarians of the Arctic Region and co-chair of the Senate 
Arctic Caucus.
[https://mcusercontent.com/a56ce2128001bdcb7974e9ea2/images/e5c64891-094d-4e72-a307-5a455b7584f3.jpg]
[https://mcusercontent.com/a56ce2128001bdcb7974e9ea2/images/b5ec2fe5-a4bf-438a-9a3c-7459e656431a.png]

The Dialogue will take place on October 6, 2020.
Please note the new event-time:
1:30 PM EDT / 5:30 PM GMT
- only four weeks away from the Presidential election!

TAKE PART!

OPEN AND DEMOCRATIC DIALOGUE

The Arctic Circle is accepting your questions and comments to be addressed 
during the Dialogue.
REGISTER FOR THE 
EVENT<https://arcticcircle.us8.list-manage.com/track/click?u=a56ce2128001bdcb7974e9ea2=72bfa3893c=a7af719603>
SUBMIT QUESTIONS/ 
COMMENTS<https://arcticcircle.us8.list-manage.com/track/click?u=a56ce2128001bdcb7974e9ea2=627e852790=a7af719603>
[https://mcusercontent.com/a56ce2128001bdcb7974e9ea2/images/95af148d-6e96-404a-b513-3aed92533fa5.jpg]
The Dialogue will be moderated by H.E. Ólafur Ragnar Grímsson, Chairman Arctic 
Circle, President of Iceland 1996-2016

PLAY!
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[geo] who governs?

[SALTER Stephen]

Hi All

See

https://www.maritime-executive.com/editorials/who-governs-climate-intervention-and-geoengineering-on-the-high-seas

Stephen
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Re: [geo] Effects of global warming and solar geoengineering on precipitation seasonality

[SALTER Stephen]

Hi All

Is it too late for the authors to make is clear which kind of solar 
geo-engineering they are writing about?

Stephen

Emeritus Professor of Engineering Design, School of Engineering, Mayfield Road, 
University of Edinburgh EH9 3DW, Scotland

On 14-Jan-19 4:52 PM, Andrew Lockley wrote:

http://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1748-9326/aafc7d

Environmental Research Letters
ACCEPTED MANUSCRIPT • THE FOLLOWING ARTICLE IS OPEN ACCESS
Effects of global warming and solar geoengineering on precipitation seasonality
Prasanta Kumar Bal1, Raju Pathak2, Saroj Kanta Mishra3 and Sandeep Sahany4

Accepted Manuscript online 8 January 2019 • © 2018 The Author(s). Published by 
IOP Publishing Ltd
What is an Accepted Manuscript?

Download Accepted Manuscript PDF
34 Total downloads

Article has an altmetric score of 1

Abstract
Effects of global warming and geoengineering on annual precipitation and its 
seasonality over different parts of the world are examined using the piControl, 
4xCO2 and G1 simulations from eight global climate models participating in the 
Geoengineering Model Intercomparison Project. Specifically, we have used 
relative entropy, seasonality index, duration of peak rainy season, and timing 
of peak rainy season to investigate changes in precipitation characteristics 
under 4xCO2 and G1 scenarios with reference to the piControl. In a 4xCO2 world, 
precipitation is projected to increase over many parts of the globe, along with 
increase in both relative entropy and seasonality index. Further, in a 4xCO2 
world the increase in peak precipitation duration is found to be highest over 
the sub Polar climatic region. However, over the tropical rain belt, the 
duration of peak precipitation period is projected to decrease. There is a 
significant shift in the timing of peak precipitation period by 15 days to 2 
months (forward) over many parts of the northern hemisphere except over few 
regions, such as, north America and parts of Mediterranean countries, where a 
shift in precipitation peak by 1 to 3 months (backward) is observed. However, 
solar geoengineering is found to significantly compensate many of the changes 
projected in a 4xCO2. Solar geoengineering nullifies the precipitation increase 
to a large extent. Relative entropy and seasonality index are almost restored 
back to that in the control simulations, although with small positive and 
negative deviations over different parts of the globe, thus, significantly 
nullifying the impact of 4xCO2. However, over some regions such as northern 
parts of South America, Arabian Sea, and Southern Africa, geoengineering does 
not significantly nullify changes in seasonality index seen in 4xCO2. Finally, 
solar geoengineering significantly compensates the changes in timing of the 
peak and duration of the peak precipitation seen in 4xCO2.
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[geo] Glacier methane

[SALTER Stephen]

Hi All

The site

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-018-0800-0

has a scary account of ice sheets currently being ignored in global
methane budgets but methane coming out from melting glaciers.

Stephen

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Re: [geo] The Risk of Termination Shock From Solar Geoengineering - Andy Parker1 and Peter J. Irvine2

[SALTER Stephen]

Hi All

Who would prefer something that was irreversible?

Stephen

On 15-Dec-18 3:45 PM, Andrew Lockley wrote:
The Risk of Termination Shock From Solar Geoengineering
Andy Parker1 and Peter J. Irvine2
1Institute for Advanced Sustainability Studies, Potsdam, Germany, 2John A. 
Paulson School of Engineering and Applied
Sciences, Harvard University, Cambridge, MA, USA
Abstract If solar geoengineering were to be deployed so as to mask a high level 
of global warming,
and then stopped suddenly, there would be a rapid and damaging rise in 
temperatures. This effect is often
referred to as termination shock, and it is an influential concept. Based on 
studies of its potential impacts,
commentators often cite termination shock as one of the greatest risks of solar 
geoengineering. However,
there has been little consideration of the likelihood of termination shock, so 
that conclusions about its
risk are premature. This paper explores the physical characteristics of 
termination shock, then uses simple
scenario analysis to plot out the pathways by which different driver events 
(such as terrorist attacks, nat-
ural disasters, or political action) could lead to termination. It then 
considers where timely policies could
intervene to avert termination shock. We conclude that some relatively simple 
policies could protect a
solar geoengineering system against most of the plausible drivers. If backup 
deployment hardware were
maintained and if solar geoengineering were implemented by agreement among just 
a few powerful
countries, then the system should be resilient against all but the most extreme 
catastrophes. If this analy-
sis is correct, then termination shock should be much less likely, and 
therefore much less of a risk, than has
previously been assumed. Much more sophisticated scenario analysis—going beyond 
simulations purely
of worst-case scenarios—will be needed to allow for more insightful policy 
conclusions.
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Re: [geo] Emmett (ULCA) Climate Engineering Fellowship in Environmental Law and Policy 2019-2021

[SALTER Stephen]

Hi All

Is there any money to pay engineers?  I have two hungry ones.

Stephen


On 19-Nov-18 12:08 PM, Reynolds, Jesse wrote:

UCLA School of Law’s Emmett Institute on Climate Change and the Environment 
invites applications for a fellowship in environmental law and policy, with 
particular focus on the societal implications, governance, and legal and policy 
issues posed by climate engineering (geoengineering). The fellowship is a 
full-time, two-year faculty position beginning July 1, 2019.

The Emmett Institute on Climate Change and the Environment is dedicated to 
creating and advancing legal and policy solutions to climate change and other 
environmental challenges, and to training the next generation of leaders to 
address these issues. The program fosters informed debate and analysis to 
educate the public, policymakers, business leaders, and others on critical 
environmental issues.

The fellow will conduct research, and legal and policy analysis, relevant to 
the societal challenges posed by climate engineering technologies, including 
both large-scale atmospheric CO2 removal and interventions in the Earth’s 
radiation balance. Examples of specific areas of interest include:

  *   The development of practical governance frameworks for proposed climate 
engineering research;
  *   The assessment and monitoring needs posed by climate engineering 
interventions, and how these might be integrated into legal and regulatory 
frameworks;
  *   Potential interactions of climate engineering proposals with existing and 
developing policy and legal frameworks for climate change, at both the 
international and national/sub-national level;
  *   Potential interactions of climate engineering with climate-change 
adaptation, particularly concerning the unique vulnerabilities to climate 
change of low-income developing countries.
  *   Identification of feasible early initiatives that may help develop 
longer-term governance capacity likely to be needed to respond to future 
proposals to conduct climate engineering

Fellows’ duties will consist principally of individual and collaborative 
research and writing, with some expected contribution to Emmett Institute 
projects such as conferences, workshops, and publications, and possible 
opportunities to teach. The specific configuration of responsibilities for the 
successful candidate will be developed in consultation with Professor Edward 
Parson.

Candidates should possess a Ph.D., J.D., or other advanced degree relevant to 
environmental law and policy, earned within the past several years or expected 
in the spring of 2019; a strong academic record; excellent analytical and 
writing skills; demonstrated interest and experience relevant to climate 
engineering; and a willingness and ability to engage new areas of inquiry as 
needed to succeed in interdisciplinary work. Candidates with scientific, 
technical, or economic skills related to public policy analysis are especially 
encouraged to apply. The salary is anticipated to be approximately $70,000 per 
year plus a competitive benefits package, subject to adjustment for seniority 
as warranted. UCLA School of Law has a special interest in enriching its 
intellectual environment through further diversifying the range of perspectives 
represented within the faculty.

Applicants should apply online at https://recruit.apo.ucla.edu/apply/JPF04203. 
To apply, please submit a letter discussing qualifications and interests, a 
resume, a transcript of studies in graduate school or law school, a writing 
sample of no more than ten pages, and contact information for three references.

Applications should be received by Monday, January 14, 2019, but will be 
considered thereafter until the position is filled.

Visit our website at https://www.law.ucla.edu/emmett for more information about 
our program.

The University of California is an Equal Opportunity/Affirmative Action 
Employer. All qualified applicants will receive consideration for employment 
without regard to race, color, religion, sex, sexual orientation, gender 
identity, national origin, disability, age or protected veteran status. For the 
complete University of California nondiscrimination and affirmative action 
policy see: UC Nondiscrimination & Affirmative Action Policy 
(http://policy.ucop.edu/doc/4000376/NondiscrimAffirmAct).

RECRUITMENT PERIOD
Open November 16th, 2018 through January 14th, 2019
JOB LOCATION
Los Angeles, CA
LEARN MORE
More information about this recruitment: 
https://law.ucla.edu/centers/environmental-law/emmett-institute-on-climate-change-and-the-environment/main/
REQUIREMENTS
Document requirements

  *   Cover Letter - Please submit a letter discussing qualifications and 
interests
  *   Resume or c.v. - Your most recently updated C.V.
  *   Transcript - A transcript of studies in graduate school or law school
  *   Writing Sample - A writing sample of no more than ten pages
  *   List of References - Contact information for three 

Re: [geo] C2G2 new hires

[SALTER Stephen]

Hi All

This excellent news would be even better if there were similar numbers of 
engineers working on the hardware which will be necessary.

Stephen



On 07-Nov-18 10:41 AM, Andrew Lockley wrote:

https://www.c2g2.net/c2g2-welcomes-new-team-members/

Carnegie Climate Geoengineering Governance Initiative
[Carnegie Council logo]
C2G2 welcomes new team members

6 November, 2018

C2G2 is delighted to announce the arrival of five new team members over recent 
months, to help us with our expanding work.

[https://www.c2g2.net/wp-content/uploads/image1-1-e1540546541935.jpeg]Ambassador
 Peter Moesgaard Sørensen (Denmark), Senior Advisor for Resource Development, 
comes to C2G2 after more than 20 years in international affairs, including most 
recently as European Union Ambassador to the United Nations and other 
international organizations in Geneva.

Peter says: “As an internationalist at heart, getting this issue to the level 
of governments in the current international environment is an exciting 
challenge.”







[Michael Thompson]Michael Thompson (USA), Senior Outreach Manager, was a 
co-founder of the Forum for Climate Engineering Assessment, a researcher at the 
Smithsonian Institution in Washington, DC, and a policy advisor with the 
Natural Resources Defense Council and The Energy and Resources Institute in 
Delhi, India.









[https://www.c2g2.net/wp-content/uploads/Rubiano-e1540546680247.jpg]Natalia 
Rubiano (Ecuador), Government and Intergovernmental Organizations Outreach 
Officer, has over five years of experience working on sustainability issues. 
Before joining C2G2, she worked with the United Nations Development Programme 
(UNDP) Country Office in Ecuador supporting the implementation of a broad 
portfolio of National and Regional projects in Environment and Energy.

Natalia says: “C2G2’s work provides an opportunity to explore new trajectories 
in the governance debate, and perhaps do things differently this time: 
exploring different power dynamics and engaging actors that have usually been 
left out of the discussion from early on.”





[https://www.c2g2.net/wp-admin/admin-ajax.php?action=imgedit-preview&_ajax_nonce=453bcd51e3=9803=3]Qi
 Zheng (China), Government and Intergovernmental Organizations Outreach 
Officer, has over 8 years of experience working on climate change and 
development, and previously worked as programme manager for UK Committee on 
Climate Change on a UK-China cooperation on climate risks.

Qi says: “What interests me is that this is a cutting-edge and important issue, 
which is evolving quickly, and involves such a range of stakeholders.”







[https://www.c2g2.net/wp-content/uploads/IMG_9617.jpg]Nigel DeCoopman (USA), 
Programme Assistant, started his career in foreign affairs as an intern at the 
Council on Foreign Relations, and acts as an intermediary between Carnegie 
Council for Ethics in International Affairs and C2G2.

Nigel says: “The work of C2G2 interests me because it exists at the convergence 
of diplomacy, governance, natural science, environmentalism, and emerging 
technology.”







More details can be found on our team page 
here.

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Re: [geo] Can anyone offer a CE perspective on this SLR article?

[SALTER Stephen]

Hi All

I agree with Doug about climate models. They sometimes disagree about the 
polarity of results.  However the long life of stratospheric sulphur means that 
it spreads through an entire hemisphere and lasts for a year or two while the 
short life of tropospheric sea salt means that it is less promiscuous.

Stephen

Sent from my iPad

On 3 Nov 2017, at 19:32, Douglas MacMartin 
<macma...@cds.caltech.edu<mailto:macma...@cds.caltech.edu>> wrote:

Whether one uses stratospheric aerosols or marine cloud brightening, it seems 
pretty safe to assume that lower temperatures at high latitudes will have a net 
benefit on both sea ice and SLR.

Independent of CE, we have no useful capability to predict the most important 
part of SLR (that due to Antarctic and Greenland melt; the part due to thermal 
expansion is straightforward to calculate and clearly reversible by CE; it’s 
the Antarctic part that is most potentially scary and least well understood).  
We won’t likely have a useful capability to estimate SLR for at least a decade 
IMHO.

Furthermore, all of the studies to date have been idealized in one way or 
another, been in a limited set of models, and have represented some specific 
strategy (e.g. injecting aerosols at the equator, which we now know is not 
likely the best place to inject them).  So until we have robust conclusions 
from more models that include the important physics and can evaluate whether 
specific impacts are due to any possible deployment strategy or are simply a 
result of a specific deployment strategy (e.g. where to put aerosols), then 
pretty much any statement of impacts from any paper should be interpreted quite 
cautiously.  (And I could point to specific issues in any of the papers you 
list, I could do the same for papers I’ve written too; the modeling simply 
isn’t mature enough yet, and until we’ve done some proper studies in a bunch of 
models, I don’t think we know whether the uncertainties are likely to be 
resolvable or not.)

Bottom line – yes, I suspect with $5-10M of modeling we could start making some 
reasonably defensible statements about some impacts and our confidence in them, 
including sea ice, but with the exception of a few things like SLR that we need 
to wait for people to figure out how to model Antarctica.  (And caveat that 
it’s pretty hard to predict what one might learn from $10M of modeling when one 
has only spent about a tenth of that.)

doug

From: geoengineering@googlegroups.com<mailto:geoengineering@googlegroups.com> 
[mailto:geoengineering@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of SALTER Stephen
Sent: Friday, November 03, 2017 3:13 PM
To: holly.jean.b...@gmail.com<mailto:holly.jean.b...@gmail.com>
Cc: andrew.lock...@gmail.com<mailto:andrew.lock...@gmail.com>; geoengineering 
<geoengineering@googlegroups.com<mailto:geoengineering@googlegroups.com>>
Subject: Re: [geo] Can anyone offer a CE perspective on this SLR article?

Hi All

My suggestion is based on the idea that more precipitation and lower 
temperature will produce more ice.  With marine cloud brightening in the 
troposphere we have some control of where this will form. I think that the 
papers Holly mentions may have been about stratospheric sulphur.

Stephen

Sent from my iPad

On 3 Nov 2017, at 18:12, Holly J 
<holly.jean.b...@gmail.com<mailto:holly.jean.b...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Hi,

It would be very helpful if someone could weigh in on what the latest research 
on CE and SLR actually indicates.

It seems as if early research on sunshade geoengineering found it promising for 
reducing ice melt.

-  But as Applegate and Keller (2015) wrote, with regards to Greenland, these 
groundbreaking earlier studies neglect feedbacks that may be vital for proper 
assessment of SRM's ability to reduce SLR.
-  Again in the Arctic, it seems that Jackson et al (2015) found that it was 
possible to remediate ice loss, but it would take a lot of SO2.
-  Looking at Antarctica, McCusker et al (2015) found that SRM could not 
preserve the West Antarctic ice sheet (because of upwelling of warm water, as I 
understand it).
-  Finally, Irvine et al’s review paper (2016) says that "While sunshade 
geoengineering could reduce sea-level rise, simulations employing more 
sophisticated models suggest that hysteresis in the response of the Greenland 
and Antarctic ice sheets to climate change could mean that there may be a 
limited ability to reverse some of the contribution to sea- level rise from the 
ice-sheets if deployment of solar geoengineering is delayed.”

Attempting to read & assess this body of work leaves me with three outstanding 
questions:

1.  Is preventing ice loss / ice restoration just one of those areas where we 
still don’t know how well SRM works?  Or is there kind of an informal consensus 
about it?

2.  If it’s still an unknown, is it even possible to better understand it — or 
will it always be relatively uncertain?  About how much re

Re: [geo] Can anyone offer a CE perspective on this SLR article?

[SALTER Stephen]

Hi All

My suggestion is based on the idea that more precipitation and lower 
temperature will produce more ice.  With marine cloud brightening in the 
troposphere we have some control of where this will form. I think that the 
papers Holly mentions may have been about stratospheric sulphur.

Stephen

Sent from my iPad

On 3 Nov 2017, at 18:12, Holly J 
> wrote:

Hi,

It would be very helpful if someone could weigh in on what the latest research 
on CE and SLR actually indicates.

It seems as if early research on sunshade geoengineering found it promising for 
reducing ice melt.

-  But as Applegate and Keller (2015) wrote, with regards to Greenland, these 
groundbreaking earlier studies neglect feedbacks that may be vital for proper 
assessment of SRM's ability to reduce SLR.
-  Again in the Arctic, it seems that Jackson et al (2015) found that it was 
possible to remediate ice loss, but it would take a lot of SO2.
-  Looking at Antarctica, McCusker et al (2015) found that SRM could not 
preserve the West Antarctic ice sheet (because of upwelling of warm water, as I 
understand it).
-  Finally, Irvine et al’s review paper (2016) says that "While sunshade 
geoengineering could reduce sea-level rise, simulations employing more 
sophisticated models suggest that hysteresis in the response of the Greenland 
and Antarctic ice sheets to climate change could mean that there may be a 
limited ability to reverse some of the contribution to sea- level rise from the 
ice-sheets if deployment of solar geoengineering is delayed.”

Attempting to read & assess this body of work leaves me with three outstanding 
questions:

1.  Is preventing ice loss / ice restoration just one of those areas where we 
still don’t know how well SRM works?  Or is there kind of an informal consensus 
about it?

2.  If it’s still an unknown, is it even possible to better understand it — or 
will it always be relatively uncertain?  About how much research (in years or 
papers) would we need to better understand it with some degree of consensus / 
certainty?  Are there new approaches coming online to get a better handle on 
it?  (I know these are hard questions).

3.   Furthermore, I assume that SRM would help with the SLR from warming water 
and ocean expansion (?), but is the amount of expected SLR from ocean expansion 
low compared to the amount we get from melting ice?

Thanks so much,
Holly “not-a-climate-scientist" Buck









On Nov 3, 2017, at 08:21, Andrew Lockley 
> wrote:


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2012/11/01/can-we-stop-the-seas-from-rising-yes-but-less-than-you-think/?utm_term=.7af0d50d549e


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Wonkblog
Can we stop the seas from rising? Yes, but less than you think.
By Brad PlumerNovember 1, 2012

One of the main concerns with climate change is that it's causing the oceans to 
advance. Global sea levels have risen about seven 
inches
 over the past century and that pace is accelerating. Not only does this 
threaten coastal regions, but it also makes storm surges much worse — both for 
huge hurricanes like Sandy and for smaller storms too.

[https://img.washingtonpost.com/rf/image_606w/2010-2019/WashingtonPost/2012/06/15/Health-Environment-Science/Images/AL%20storm073010%2001.jpg]We
 can hold back some of the tide, but not all of it. (Amanda Lucier/The 
Washington Post)

And the oceans are likely to keep creeping up. Scientists 
project 
that if we keep warming the planet at our current pace, sea levels could rise 

Re: [geo] Can anyone offer a CE perspective on this SLR article?

[SALTER Stephen]

Andrew

Do marine cloud brightening near but not too close to polar  and Greenland ice 
during the months either side of mid summer. Evaporation from the sea at mid 
latitudes will provide precipitation to increase polar ice depth which will be 
retained by the lower temperatures.

Adjust the amount of treatment from year to year.

Stephen



Sent from my iPad

On 3 Nov 2017, at 15:22, Andrew Lockley 
> wrote:

com.

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