Re: 'process accounting paused'?
When there is a great load on the system and there is a lot of swapping and thrashing going on, the first thing the system does is try to unload itself, and the first thing it does is suspend process accounting. Usually a sign of low memory levels, perhaps generated by the release of many jobs at one time by cron. md -- = Jon maddog Hall Executive Director Linux International(SM) email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 80 Amherst St. Voice: +1.603.672.4557 Amherst, N.H. 03031-3032 U.S.A. WWW: http://www.li.org Board Member: Uniforum Association, USENIX Association (R)Linux is a registered trademark of Linus Torvalds in several countries. (SM)Linux International is a service mark of Linux International, Inc. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Audio CD Playing
On Sun, 6 Oct 2002, Ed Robitaille wrote: I am running SuSe 7.3 on a dual boot system with Windows 95 (gotta keep the other half happy). I updated some software and can no longer play audio cd's either using the console or in X. The cd player will flash like its playing, I can here audio when I plug headsets into the cd player directly, but no audio from the speakers. The cd player works ok in Windows. Using: How's the little audio cable from the back of the CD-ROM to the Sound Card look? Some of the newer CD Playing software doesn't rely on it, so it working under linux may not be proof that it's functioning. If it's playing via the headset jack - the software's working correctly. If you're sure the cable's working right, what software did you install? Ben -- An inch of time is an inch of gold but you can't buy that inch of time with an inch of gold. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Red Hat's Bluecurve (was: Red Hat 8.0 is 'official')
Hmm, now that I think about it, it's been a while since we had a decent flame war around here, so, since I remembered my asbestos underwear today, let me lob the first volley ;) Debian rules, RH Sucks vi is for wimps Linux Hm, can't really find much to disagree with. Except the asbestos underwear. That must be itchy. Erik __ Do you Yahoo!? Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos More http://faith.yahoo.com ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Red Hat's Bluecurve (was: Red Hat 8.0 is 'official')
In a message dated: Sat, 05 Oct 2002 18:49:53 EDT [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Certain other rabid zealots fired back remarks about how KDE is under the GPL, so Red Hat can do anything they darn well please. Naturally, they also had to bring up the throughly dead KDE/Qt licensing issue one more time, just for good measure. Damn! You mean I missed a good, I'm-holier-than-thou-even-though-I'm -a-hypocrite flame war? Did they bring up Debian vs. RH, or Emacs vs. vi? Or Linux vs. GNU/Linux? Hmm, now that I think about it, it's been a while since we had a decent flame war around here, so, since I remembered my asbestos underwear today, let me lob the first volley ;) Debian rules, RH Sucks vi is for wimps Linux ;) -- Seeya, Paul -- It may look like I'm just sitting here doing nothing, but I'm really actively waiting for all my problems to go away. If you're not having fun, you're not doing it right! ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Red Hat's Bluecurve (was: Red Hat 8.0 is 'official')
On Mon, Oct 07, 2002 at 10:48:15AM -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hmm, now that I think about it, it's been a while since we had a decent flame war around here, so, since I remembered my asbestos underwear today, let me lob the first volley ;) Debian rules, RH Sucks vi is for wimps Linux coffee r0x0rs, tea sux! So there! (trying to hold mug steady) -Mark ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Red Hat's Bluecurve (was: Red Hat 8.0 is 'official')
In a message dated: Sat, 05 Oct 2002 20:52:46 EDT [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: I have always, by accident rather then by dint of planning, moved from N.1 or N.2 to N+1.1 so I have yet to experience a RH N.0 release. I do this by design. My rule of thumb is *always* avoid an X.0 release of *anything* (well, for production anyway. playing or systems used for educational purposes obviously preclude this rule and allow you to do stupid things like use .0 or 0.0 releases :) Are all of RH N.0 release typically accompanied by more problems then the N.1 or N.2 releases ? Tradionally, yes. 5.0 I believe was the release where they switched to the new glibc, I don't remember the problem with 6.0, but 7.0 was the compiler debacle, 8.0 seems to be the desktop debacle. I don't remember what the 2.0, 3.0, or 4.0 problems were. But, suffice it to say that: - a RH X.0 release usually introduces a significant number of enhancements and new features, as well as major problems - an X.1 release fixes a good portion of those bugs, but not usually enough to consider the system stable enough for use as a server - an X.2 release is usually the flagship release of the X release - and an X.3 release is pretty much unheard of, and IMO, indicative of just how much was wrong with the entire 7.x series :) Is RH duplicating the problems automobile manufacturers have whenever they bring out a new car model? The more they change the more that is broken? What company doesnt' do this? I'm wondering because I was just considering a move from 7.2 to 8.0 when I started hearing about 8.0 probs and it seemed to a higher level of severity than I've heard before. Personally, I'd wait until at least 8.1, if not 8.2. .1 is likely to be out within a couple months. As a rule of thumb - don't dot oh ? I certainly don't :) -- Seeya, Paul -- It may look like I'm just sitting here doing nothing, but I'm really actively waiting for all my problems to go away. If you're not having fun, you're not doing it right! ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Red Hat's Bluecurve (was: Red Hat 8.0 is 'official')
In a message dated: 05 Oct 2002 22:35:55 EDT Paul Iadonisi said: Here, I'm afraid, I somewhat agree. The new window manager for Gnome 2.0, metacity, is basically crippling for me. Well, it's good to know that I haven't missed *anything* by sticking with fvwm over the years :) Someone wake me up when it becomes worthwile to bother looking at another windowmanager ! Push the browser button and you get mozilla, but there's nothing to tell you that you'd get mozilla if you push it. :-( And most dumb (and even some smart) users, don't care. They just want to browse the net. It could be worse, you could've gotten Netscape 4.77 :) It's now impossible to have the Gnome panel(s) be anything but always-on-top. Is this only if you're running Gnome? Or does it apply to running the panel in other windows managers? IOW, I use fvwm, but I run the Gnome panel (mostly because I really like the the AfterStep clock applet:) Does that mean I can no longer go to Panel-Properties-All Properties and select my own Panel Window level? The default is to keep it always on top, but that property seems to be inherited from the Gnome Global Preferences, and can be (in 1.4) changed on a per object basis. -- Seeya, Paul -- It may look like I'm just sitting here doing nothing, but I'm really actively waiting for all my problems to go away. If you're not having fun, you're not doing it right! ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Red Hat's Bluecurve (was: Red Hat 8.0 is 'official')
On Mon, 7 Oct 2002, Ed Lawson wrote: =On Mon, 07 Oct 2002 10:48:15 -0400 =[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: = = = Hmm, now that I think about it, it's been a while since we had a = decent flame war around here, so, since I remembered my asbestos = underwear today, let me lob the first volley ;) = = Debian rules, RH Sucks = =How can you start a flame war by stating the obvvious? g = =Now about Vi. Hey, I met a guy who could number his paragraphs with roman numerals with macros in vi. :-) I declare him to be a better man than I, despite my 140K .emacs file. -- -Time flies like the wind. Fruit flies like a banana. Stranger things have - -happened but none stranger than this. Does your driver's license say Organ -Donor?Black holes are where God divided by zero. Listen to me! We are all- -individuals! What if this weren't a hypothetical question? [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
TPJ in trouble
Hi all, I just saw this on /., which surprised me, since I've been an avid fan and subscriber of The Perl Journal since issue #1!!! Anyway, if you're serious about Perl, or just really enjoy well written technical articles by very intelligent people, the TPJ is for you. Please subscribe if you are interested, or, if you just wish to help them out! http://www.tpj.com/ -- Seeya, Paul -- It may look like I'm just sitting here doing nothing, but I'm really actively waiting for all my problems to go away. If you're not having fun, you're not doing it right! ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Red Hat's Bluecurve (was: Red Hat 8.0 is 'official')
On Mon, 2002-10-07 at 11:14, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [snip] It's now impossible to have the Gnome panel(s) be anything but always-on-top. Is this only if you're running Gnome? Or does it apply to running the panel in other windows managers? NITPICK Gnome is not a window manager. You can use any gnome compliant (there is actually a document for programmers on how to make their window managers gnome compliant) window manager in gnome. /NITPICK IOW, I use fvwm, but I run the Gnome panel (mostly because I really like the the AfterStep clock applet:) Does that mean I can no longer go to Panel-Properties-All Properties and select my own Panel Window level? Yup, it's a Gnome 2.0 thing, not a window manager thing. There are *much* fewer properties available for setting in the Gnome 2.0 panel. As a matter of fact: GRIPE MODE=ON LEVEL=EXCRUCIATINGLY HIGH After complaining a bit directly to Havoc Pennington (the metacity author) about how crippling metacity was for me, I hopped on over to the gnome-usability mailing list archives. Apparently, it is a friggin' *stated goal* to remove many configuration options from Gnome. This is supposedly to prevent confusion among non-technical users. My question is, what pray tell, does having more options have to do with confusion?!?! I mean, if you want to hide the options and relegate them to the old way of using vi (oops, sorry, emacs if you so choose ;-)) to edit dot-files, then fine. REMOVING the configurability accomplishes nothing but aggravating the technical user. Hide it so it doesn't clutter menus and property sheets, but DON'T REMOVE them. I've also seen the argument that a fixed non-configurable behavior makes the code more maintainable. This is a real concern (making the code more maintainable) but has ZERO to do with usability arguments, yet I have seen it brought up on the usability list. I've also seen the code maintainability argument brought up in the GTK+ vs. QT wars, but with usability in mind. I can't address the ease of each toolkit from the programmers point of view, since I haven't done any programming for some time, but once again, I say, that usability (the user perspective) and code maintainability (the programmer perspective) have zero to do with each other. Yes, maintainable code means that things can be done faster, and therefore get working code out there to a wider user base faster. But, I've actually seen people argue that if you can code it fast, and it works, then who cares if it's right or pure. Well, now I know why there is so much bad code, security-wise out there. Improving development speed can be important (time-to-market, yada yada), but not at the expense of doing things wrong (term used loosely, here, of course). That's the way of the proprietary software world -- a way that free software authors would be wise to never adopt. This is the problem I see with a number of programmers (and I count myself among the people how need to take note of this at times): they're often more concerned with improving their own development process than they are with improving the user experience. The two aren't mutually exclusive, but too often, I find the later neglected. /GRIPE MODE=off *Whew* /Paul takes a deep breath Sorry, I had to get that out of my system. If it starts a flame war, so be it. Perhaps it something that *needs* to be hashed out. The default is to keep it always on top, but that property seems to be inherited from the Gnome Global Preferences, and can be (in 1.4) changed on a per object basis. I'll refrain from any comments about always on top. :-) :-) -- -Paul Iadonisi Senior System Administrator Red Hat Certified Engineer / Local Linux Lobbyist Ever see a penguin fly? -- Try Linux. GPL all the way: Sell services, don't lease secrets ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Red Hat's Bluecurve (was: Red Hat 8.0 is 'official')
On Mon, 2002-10-07 at 11:02, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [snip] - and an X.3 release is pretty much unheard of, and IMO, indicative of just how much was wrong with the entire 7.x series :) Minor nit: I know the inside story about why there was a 7.3 and can only say that it had zero to do with the problems or lack of problems with 7.2. [snip] Personally, I'd wait until at least 8.1, if not 8.2. .1 is likely to be out within a couple months. Well, Red Hat has been pretty darned consistent with releasing every six months. As a rule, it has been March and September, sometimes plus or minus one to four weeks. As a rule of thumb - don't dot oh ? I certainly don't :) I usually don't, but this time I took the plunge since I was much more involved in testing betas than before. I haven't seen any major problems with it (other than problems that are not Red Hat specific, outlined in my previous two posts on the topic). Given the major version change in the compiler, the desktop work, and the inclusion of OpenOffice.org, I think they've done *much* better job than the previous three dot-oh releases. OpenOffice.org is a BIG deal, by the way: even with all my experience building rpms, I couldn't for the life of me, starting with the source tarball, manage to get an rpm built. -- -Paul Iadonisi Senior System Administrator Red Hat Certified Engineer / Local Linux Lobbyist Ever see a penguin fly? -- Try Linux. GPL all the way: Sell services, don't lease secrets ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Red Hat's Bluecurve (was: Red Hat 8.0 is 'official')
In a message dated: 07 Oct 2002 14:55:11 EDT Paul Iadonisi said: On Mon, 2002-10-07 at 11:14, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [snip] It's now impossible to have the Gnome panel(s) be anything but always-on-top. Is this only if you're running Gnome? Or does it apply to running the panel in other windows managers? NITPICK Gnome is not a window manager. You can use any gnome compliant (there is actually a document for programmers on how to make their window managers gnome compliant) window manager in gnome. /NITPICK REALLYNITPICK I know Gnome, and KDE, CDE, etc. for that matter, are more than window managers. However, I explicitly asked if you need to be running GNOME. This implies, IMO, that I am *not* running Gnome, but rather, using ANYTHING ELSE, but choose to run a Gnome application, of which the Gnome panel is but one. Therefore, my question is more than valid, since no where did I equate or even state that Gnome was just a window manager. /REALLYNITPICK SARCASM Btw, I have yet to see Gnome or KDE do anything overly useful other than provide a more visually appealing and resource intensive window manager replacement ;) /SARCASM IOW, I use fvwm, but I run the Gnome panel (mostly because I really like the the AfterStep clock applet:) Does that mean I can no longer go to Panel-Properties-All Properties and select my own Panel Window level? Yup, it's a Gnome 2.0 thing, not a window manager thing. There are *much* fewer properties available for setting in the Gnome 2.0 panel. Guess I'll be sticking with fvwm for quite a while then :) As a matter of fact: GRIPE MODE=ON LEVEL=EXCRUCIATINGLY HIGH Apparently, it is a friggin' *stated goal* to remove many configuration options from Gnome. So where's the value add to switch from MS ? Sure, there's the it's free argument, but for most users, they don't care. They paid for a computer which comes with an OS. They don't care which one, and as far as they're concerned, MS is free with the purchase of their computer. Therefore, the only diffentiating factor is, what can Linux do that MS Windows can't. If the answer is nothing, but it looks cool, then we just lost. -- Seeya, Paul -- It may look like I'm just sitting here doing nothing, but I'm really actively waiting for all my problems to go away. If you're not having fun, you're not doing it right! ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Red Hat's Bluecurve (was: Red Hat 8.0 is 'official')
In a message dated: 07 Oct 2002 15:07:26 EDT Paul Iadonisi said: On Mon, 2002-10-07 at 11:02, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [snip] - and an X.3 release is pretty much unheard of, and IMO, indicative of just how much was wrong with the entire 7.x series :) Minor nit: I know the inside story about why there was a 7.3 and can only say that it had zero to do with the problems or lack of problems with 7.2. Well then, please enlighten us :) Incorrect statements are usually the result of assumptions and ignorance. I did assume, because I am ignorant of any other mitigating factors. Please correct me. -- Seeya, Paul -- It may look like I'm just sitting here doing nothing, but I'm really actively waiting for all my problems to go away. If you're not having fun, you're not doing it right! ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Red Hat's Bluecurve (was: Red Hat 8.0 is 'official')
On Mon, 2002-10-07 at 15:26, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated: 07 Oct 2002 15:07:26 EDT Paul Iadonisi said: On Mon, 2002-10-07 at 11:02, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [snip] - and an X.3 release is pretty much unheard of, and IMO, indicative of just how much was wrong with the entire 7.x series :) Minor nit: I know the inside story about why there was a 7.3 and can only say that it had zero to do with the problems or lack of problems with 7.2. Well then, please enlighten us :) The basic issue is that Red Hat only bumps major release numbers when there are backward (or is it forward? Or both maybe? I forgot) binary compatibility issues. I think the fact that they stuck with the .0, .1, .2 release numbers is purely coincidental. There was nothing in the release following 7.2 to justify calling it 8.0, so they stuck with the 7.x numbering. They try not to play release number races with other distros. (Actual, most distros have been pretty good about not doing that. Now Solaris -- that's another story ;-)). -- -Paul Iadonisi Senior System Administrator Red Hat Certified Engineer / Local Linux Lobbyist Ever see a penguin fly? -- Try Linux. GPL all the way: Sell services, don't lease secrets ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Red Hat's Bluecurve (was: Red Hat 8.0 is 'official')
In a message dated: 07 Oct 2002 15:50:12 EDT Paul Iadonisi said: The basic issue is that Red Hat only bumps major release numbers when there are backward (or is it forward? Or both maybe? I forgot) binary compatibility issues. I think the fact that they stuck with the .0, .1, .2 release numbers is purely coincidental. There was nothing in the release following 7.2 to justify calling it 8.0, so they stuck with the 7.x numbering. So what was in 7.3? Was it enhancements or something? I don't think I've actually played with 7.3 at all (came out while I was between jobs and I haven't had a need to use Linux for much of anything other than my own desktop, which is Debian. Hmmm, maybe I should get vmware :) They try not to play release number races with other distros. (Actual, most distros have been pretty good about not doing that. Now Solaris -- that's another story ;-)). What do mean by that? Solaris is still on 2.x, 2.9 just got released? (Remember, it's only the output of 'uname' that matters, since we tech weenies never pay attention to marketing efforts ;) -- Seeya, Paul -- It may look like I'm just sitting here doing nothing, but I'm really actively waiting for all my problems to go away. If you're not having fun, you're not doing it right! ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
OpenLDAP book?
Hey, all. It appears to me that OpenLDAP has an almost complete dearth of dead-tree documentation. Is this true? Does anyone know of a reasonably good book that is still in print that I might be able to find? Just looking for implementation -- but preferably in English, as opposed to the stuff on openldap.org. (Okay, it's not that bad, but it is darn terse and almost inpenetrable for a relative newbie to LDAP.) And while this may seem redundant, I'm looking for it to be specifically regarding OpenLDAP, and _not_ another high-level overview of why LDAP is cooler than [NIS|NDS|NIS+|etc.], which seems to grow in proliferation. Thanks! -Ken ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Version inflation (was: Red Hat's Bluecurve (was: ...))
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Mon, 7 Oct 2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What do mean by that? Solaris is still on 2.x, 2.9 just got released? (Remember, it's only the output of 'uname' that matters, since we tech weenies never pay attention to marketing efforts ;) Since we're being picky here, I get to tell you you're wrong. bash-2.05# uname -sr SunOS 5.7 bash-2.05# uname -a SunOS idoru 5.7 Generic sun4u sparc SUNW,Ultra-5_10 There is no such thing as Solaris 2.x where x6. SunOS 5.7 is the kernel for Solaris 7. SunOS 5.8 and 5.9 go with Solaris 8 and 9, respectively. Not that this matters much, since I can't find any place other than the CDE splash screen that mentions Solaris on a running system. In effect, Solaris _IS_ just a marketing name. The important question is what will they call Solaris after SunOS bumps to 6.x? - -- Matthew J. Brodeur RHCE, GSEC [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.NextTime.com There is nothing so habit-forming as money. -Don Marquis -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE9ofwQc8/WFSz+GKMRAuqkAKCWOY8Kl/KU+PzDfOPIPKdtNWaM+QCZAZxO IXyvAhTXQFJUjJkyvowIT00= =pV/i -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Fwd: Upcoming event - Richard Stallman Speaking in Burlington
Begin forwarded message: From: Lisa M. Opus Goldstein [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Mon Oct 7, 2002 10:18:04 AM US/Eastern To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Upcoming event - Richard Stallman Speaking in Burlington Dear People, Richard Stallman, author of the GPL and founder of the GNU Project and the Free Software Foundation, will be speaking in Burlington, Mass on Wednesday October 16, 2002. It is a book-release party for Free Software, Free Society: Selected Essays of Richard M. Stallman. The web page for the book is http://www.gnu.org/doc/book13.html. Event: Informal Q A with Richard Stallman Date: Wednesday October 16, 2002 Time: 6:30 PM to about 8:00 PM Location: Softpro Books Vinebrook Plaza 112 Burlington Mall Road Burlington, MA 01803-5300 Tel: 781-273-2917 Web: http://www.softpro.com/ Description of Free Software, Free Society: The intersection of ethics, law, business and computer software is the subject of this collection of essays and speeches by MacArthur Foundation Grant winner, Richard M. Stallman. It includes historical writings such as The GNU Manifesto, which defined and launched the activist Free Software Movement, along with new writings on current topics such as trusted computing and the proposed CBDTPA. Stallman takes a critical look at common abuses of copyright law and patents when applied to computer software programs, and how these abuses damage our entire society and remove our existing freedoms. He also discusses the social aspects of software and how free software can create community and social justice. Over the past twenty years Stallman's arguments and actions have changed the course of software history. Over the years he has received many types of awards; most recently he was elected to the American National Academy of Engineering. Best Regards, Lisa M. Goldstein [EMAIL PROTECTED] Managing Editor, GNU Press Business Manager, Tel 617-542-5942 Free Software FoundationFax 617-542-2652 -- Erik Price (zombies roam) email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] jabber: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Version inflation (was: Red Hat's Bluecurve (was: ...))
Matthew J. Brodeur [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The important question is what will they call Solaris after SunOS bumps to 6.x? Linux? (-: --kevin -- Kevin D. Clark / Cetacean Networks / Portsmouth, N.H. (USA) cetaceannetworks.com!kclark (GnuPG ID: B280F24E) alumni.unh.edu!kdc ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Red Hat's Bluecurve (was: Red Hat 8.0 is 'official')
Debian rules, RH Sucks vi is for wimps Linux Hm, can't really find much to disagree with. Inconsistent rubbish. Any *real* Debianer knows it's GNU/Linux -- just like Debian prints on its web site. And while vi isn't my favorite editor, I'm afraid to nominate joe 'cause everyone will think I'm a l00ser... -- If the current stylistic distinctions between open-source and commercial software persist, an open-software revolution could lead to yet another divide between haves and have-nots: those with the skills and connections to make use of free software, and those who must pay high prices for increasingly dated commercial offerings. -- Scientific American ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Interesting live NASA feed this afternoon (fwd)
Suzanne said: NASA claims that, for the first time, they'll have a live camera on the external tank of STS-112 (Atlantis), which will be broadcasting the entire liftoff and ascent, including the release and burnup of the tank itself. Lanuch is scheduled for 3:46pm EST Oct 7th, with a five minute window. Well, I wasn't on the net when Suzanne's e-mail came around, because I was in the living room watching Fox News, who carried it live. (Heck with the Web; besides, I couldn't watch it on the WWW on my 33.6k dial-up anyway!). Very spectacular launch!! Thanks, Suzanne! Bayard ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
KVM cards
Let's say there's a machine (probably out at some customer's site) that normally runs without any KVM (Keyboard/Video/Mouse) HW attached, but I temporarily need to hook up to that machine in order to diagnose a problem or install/reconfig some SW. Wouldn't it be nice if my laptop had (say) a card with connectors that I could cable up to the KVM hardware on the machine in question that would allow me to use my laptop's KVM hardware to interact with that machine? Anybody know if such adapters (or whatever) exist? This might be a market opportunity, since I can't remember ever hearing of such a thing - all this would really amount to is something on the order of a 1-port KVM switch implemented as (say) a PCI card, right? P.S. Unfortunately, the machines in question will be examples of the dainbramaged mess that's somehow become our beloved Industry Standard Architecture, so please don't bother suggesting that I consider using serial consoles or any other such civilized solutions that one might expect on machines designed by/for grownups - we're talking about PeeCee's here... ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Version inflation (was: Red Hat's Bluecurve (was: ...))
Matthew J. Brodeur [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The important question is what will they call Solaris after SunOS bumps to 6.x? The move from SunOS 4.x to SunOS 5.x was the switch from a BSD system to a SYSV system. So what fundamental architectural change would justify a switch from 5.x to 6.x? A new kernel based on Linux, or Mach, or Hurd? I haven't heard of any such plans from Sun. -- John Abreau / Executive Director, Boston Linux Unix IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED] / abreauj@aim / abreauj@yahoo / 28611923@icq Email [EMAIL PROTECTED] / WWW http://www.abreau.net / PGP-Key-ID 0xD5C7B5D9 PGP-Key-Fingerprint 72 FB 39 4F 3C 3B D6 5B E0 C8 5A 6E F1 2C BE 99 Some people say, The enemy of my enemy is my friend. I often respond, When elephants fight, it's the grass that gets trampled. msg00909/pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: KVM cards
On Mon, 7 Oct 2002, at 10:08pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I can't remember ever hearing of such a thing - all this would really amount to is something on the order of a 1-port KVM switch implemented as (say) a PCI card, right? That would work if your laptop had a PCI slot. Which it don't. It also would not work because a laptop display does not have a analog-to-digital converter -- the frame buffer is connected more-or-less directly to the dot matrix [1]. That being said, you could do what you -- and I -- want in one of two ways: (1) Video capture (and keyboard and mouse generation). The display data would have to go through the system bus, and possibly be processed by the host OS, too. This would mean you could (in theory) put the KVM in a window on your own desktop. VNC-over-VGA, anyone? :) (2) Add the analog-to-digital circuits present in non-laptop flat panel display, along with some supporting logic to do the KVM switching. This is actually largely the same thing as #1 above; it simply does it all in hardware. You gain performance, but lose the KVM-in-a-window trick. Alas, this is all academic; I know of know such laptop that supports such functionality. Nor do I know of a CardBus card which implements option #1 (which is likely the most feasible way of doing this). The best I have seen was an easy-to-carry flat-panel-and-keyboard kit. Which beats lugging a CRT around, I suppose, but not by much. ... please don't bother suggesting that I consider using serial consoles or any other such civilized solutions that one might expect on machines designed by/for grownups - we're talking about PeeCee's here... Are we talking PeeCee's running Linux? If so, setting up serial console support is trivial. If we are talking MS-Windows, well, you're screwed regardless of hardware support. (For example, NT runs on the Alpha, and the Alpha's serial console is just as useless with NT as it would be on a PeeCee.) Also, and FWIW, most decent server PeeCee's these days have serial console support built-in to the firmware, too. Footnotes - [1] Okay, that is a lie, but it will do for purposes of this discussion. -- Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] | The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not | | necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or | | organization. All information is provided without warranty of any kind. | ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Red Hat's Bluecurve (was: Red Hat 8.0 is 'official')
On 7 Oct 2002, at 3:50pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Minor nit: I know the inside story about why there was a 7.3 and can only say that it had zero to do with the problems or lack of problems with 7.2. The basic issue is that Red Hat only bumps major release numbers when there are backward (or is it forward? Or both maybe? I forgot) binary compatibility issues. Forward. A binary built on Red Hat Linux release x.y must work on any Red Hat Linux release with the same value for x (assuming dependencies are solved). For example, a binary built on Red Hat 7.0 will not run on 6.2, because the compiler changed (and GCC, as a rule, does not maintain compatibility with anything). Backwards compatibility means that a binary built for an older release of Red Hat Linux should work on a newer release. This is accomplished by including various compatibility libraries, i.e., newer releases of Red Hat include libraries compatible with older releases. I think the fact that they stuck with the .0, .1, .2 release numbers is purely coincidental. I do not think it was conincidence. It appears that Red Hat could give us three releases before so many neat new things made the pain of breaking binary compatibility worth it in someone's eyes. If the number of neat new things introduced per unit of time is roughly constant, we would see this behavior. Actual, most distros have been pretty good about not doing that. *cough* Slackware *cough*;-) -- Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] | The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not | | necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or | | organization. All information is provided without warranty of any kind. | ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Complexity and user confusion (was: Red Hat's Bluecurve)
On 7 Oct 2002, at 2:55pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ... Apparently, it is a friggin' *stated goal* to remove many configuration options from Gnome. This is supposedly to prevent confusion among non-technical users. ... My question is, what pray tell, does having more options have to do with confusion?!?! I mean, if you want to hide the options and relegate them to the old way of ... dot-files, then fine. REMOVING the configurability accomplishes nothing but aggravating the technical user. Several points here: First, I agree with you,. Removing options just for the sake of dumbing-down the UI is, well, dumb. Second: The way to solve this problem (for the end-user) is with what I (and others) call User Levels. Basically, you tell the software what your experience level is, and it adjusts the UI accordingly. Newbies get the least features, more steps and separation, and more prompting. As the level of experience increases, so does the density and number of exposed features (while prompting is decreased). For best results, there should be a general user level, and a per-application user level which overrides the general one. (That way, e.g., I can turn down the user level of a particular app while learning it.) I have seen user levels implemented in only two places: Once was the venerable GeoWorks (nee PC/GEOS) GUI for MS-DOS. The other is in the Nautilus system browser. I think the industry should take a good look at these two examples, and learn from them. They could go a long way toward equalizing the easy-to-use vs easy-to-learn divide. Lastly: Many corporations do, in fact, consider removing options to be an advantage. Why? It decreases training costs. More bluntly, it allows them to reduce qualified personnel and replace them with trained monkeys. Sure, it may be uniformly bad, but at least it is uniform (or so their thinking (I use the term loosely) goes). -- Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] | The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not | | necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or | | organization. All information is provided without warranty of any kind. | ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Why Linux? (was: Red Hat's Bluecurve)
On Mon, 7 Oct 2002, at 3:24pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Apparently, it is a friggin' *stated goal* to remove many configuration options from Gnome. So where's the value add to switch from MS? Sure, there's the it's free argument, but for most users, they don't care. Define users. For most home and small office users, free (gratis) makes a *HUGE* difference. Where I work, we get a number of customers this way. Here is the Microsoft-based solution; it will cost you $20,000, most of that in software license fees. Here is the Linux-based solution; it will cost you $5000. Any questions? For corporate environments, where support contracts are a must, free makes less of a difference. However, Free (libre) *is* important. The Freedom to do things the way they want to; the Freedom to choose their software and support vendors; the Freedom to not be locked into a single vendor. (The hard part is often convincing these corporations they do, in fact, want to be released from their chains, but that is another discussion.) They don't care which one, and as far as they're concerned, MS is free with the purchase of their computer. But if the Linux computer costs $200 less than the one that includes MS-Windows for free, which one do they buy? :) -- Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] | The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not | | necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or | | organization. All information is provided without warranty of any kind. | ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: RH 8.0 Question
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 At some point hitherto, [EMAIL PROTECTED] hath spake thusly: It used to be under Foot - Programs - Settings - Desktop - Window Manager, although I expect you already knew that. One thing that has worked for finding hidden stuff for me before: Get a shell prompt, and run gnomecc. That invokes the GNOME Control Center, as opposed to using the Foot menus. Or, at least, it did under GNOME 1.x. You haven't yet used GNOME 2, have you? :) The GNOME developers have decided that configurability is not what users want, and are effectively doing away with it. There is no mechanism provided by GNOME 2 to change your window manager. Additionally, many, many of the things which previously WERE configurable, no longer are. I'm no longer a GNOME user... - -- Derek D. Martin http://www.pizzashack.org/ GPG Key ID: 0x81CFE75D -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE9onGjdjdlQoHP510RAnkRAJoDD0ccJf8yWoQqtiV1YmjRh5NJrwCfREAP SnYVX5P5btFRgFJnT0cCGGQ= =IgtK -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Complexity and user confusion (was: Red Hat's Bluecurve)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 At some point hitherto, [EMAIL PROTECTED] hath spake thusly: First, I agree with you,. Removing options just for the sake of dumbing-down the UI is, well, dumb. The GNOME developers don't agree... Second: The way to solve this problem (for the end-user) is with what I (and others) call User Levels. Basically, you tell the software what your experience level is, and it adjusts the UI accordingly. Sounds perfectly reasonable to me, and has been suggested in several threads on the GNOME usability list. They're not interested... I have seen user levels implemented in only two places: Once was the venerable GeoWorks (nee PC/GEOS) GUI for MS-DOS. The other is in the Nautilus system browser. If this ever did exist in Nautilus, it's been removed. Actually another place this existed is in the Sawfish WM. It's apparently been removed from there as well. Incidentally, by default Sawfish isn't even installed on RH8 systems... Lastly: Many corporations do, in fact, consider removing options to be an advantage. Why? It decreases training costs. I wonder how true that is, in practice. It makes a certain amount of sense; but I suspect the reality is that the same amount of time (and therefore money) is/would be spent on user training. Why? Ever been in a corporate computer training class? I have. They only cover the (extreme) basics anyway. The extra options are, well, extra (and therefore not covered). One more point: corporations are not users. They are abstract entities. Their employees are the users. Unfortunately, corporations' decisions about what to run or what is good has nothing to do with what makes their employees (the users) happy (and in theory more productive); only money does. Corporations are the ones that make software sales profitable, by and large, so the actual users of the software suffer. - -- Derek D. Martin http://www.pizzashack.org/ GPG Key ID: 0x81CFE75D -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE9onRWdjdlQoHP510RArYzAJ9xlH/mwN6vaqSQf05v+N94NVJVdwCgiw6Q iZTeTjpp9MFVjPep9iXvfZQ= =Zjxf -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
