Re: [ON Topic] How 'bout them Linux? Ain't they somethin?!
To quote a popular phrase from my racing days "I'm only here for the beer" :-) I tend to agree with the market analysis, but think you've overly discriminated. Seems to me that (a) and (b) are similar, the main difference being that group (a) wants to gather at some pub to quaff and palaver face to face, while individuals in group (b) prefer to drink at home and chat mediated by silicon ? Seriously, groups (a) (b) and (c) seem fundamentally the same, enjoy sharing a common interest with others of the same ilk. Group (d) adds evangelizing the topic, and of course welcomes the others (there's nothing like preaching to the choir to get enthusiastic hosannas!). And members of group (d) are also members of groups (a) (b) and (c). So I'd posit there are only two audience categories, those who just want to share the appreciation of FOSS technology with others already converted, and those who also want to spread the word to the ignorant heathen. FWIW I personally am somewhat in group (d), there is a need to advance the cause to survive (eat or be eaten in the competitive marketplace of ideas) and am also somewhat in group (c), enjoy the appreciation of where we've already reached. Most importantly, I tend to be a moderate so blind enthusiasm for flawed examples turns me off regardless of the philosophical ideals underlying the implementation. To answer the specific questions: > >What do you look for in GNHLUG? > Enthusiasm, appreciation, shared knowledge and assistance. A COMMUNITY. >What brings you to a meeting? > My car. Seriously, time availability is major determinant, topic appeal is next most important (I'll try to make time for interesting topics, but can't always do it even for the most interesting). The fellowship is an attraction that may get me to attend meetings with otherwise uninteresting topics, but it won't get me to a real yawner or outweigh other priorities. >What drives you away from a meeting? > See above. >What would it take to get you to bring new members to a meeting? > Their interest in topic of discussion, or in FOSS. >Would you be willing to volunteer for helping to pull off some "activity"? > In my copious free time? ROTFLMAO trying to grasp the concept. Yes. >Would you be willing to spend a Saturday once or twice a year in staffing >some project? Could you get your neighbor to do it? > Unlikely. Time and energy constraints for me, and lack of interested/knowledgeable neighbors. >If so, do you have any activities that you would especially like to do? >Particularly ones that you would be willing to participate in? Nothing gnhlug appropriate. gnss is the closest so far. > >Finally, after thirty-five years in the computer business it took a kid from >Finland to remind me that I got into this space to have FUNso what things >would you like to do that would be FUN? BEER. :-) Actually making and using the technology, more than talking about it or sharing the appreciation of it. Not sure that lends itself to group activities or meetings. just MHO FWIW. - Bruce McCulley Original message >On another mailing list we are discussing some of the issues of the LUG: > >(1) Relatively low attendance at meetings >(2) Lack of growth in the LUG to match the growth of the Linux industry >(3) Distance between some of the goals of various members > >I glean that there are currently four types of people in the LUG and on this >list: > >(a) The people who just like to get together every once in a while, have >a beer, talk about Linux and Free and Open Source, see some new widget or >program > >(b) The people who just like to talk about Linux and FOSS in email, share >ideas, talk about problems > >(c) a+b > >(d) The people who would like GNHLUG to be pro-active, driving Linux and FOSS >forward, but also admittedly welcome "c" > >Now believe me, I have no problems with any of the people in any of these >groups. > >Usually the people who become the 'leaders' are in group "d", and they go on a >while and burn out. Part of the burn out (IMHO) is trying to make the people >in groups a-c be more like them. I never really "burned out", I just started >traveling too much to attend meetings (but then again I am crazed.) > >In the past we have done some nice things: > >o New User Nights - gone out to towns and talked about free and open source >in the libraries. Handed out floppies with information on them > >o Install fests > >o The Linux Business Show > >o Hoss Traders - You can't really say you have been at Hoss Traders until you >have spent the night going around with a little flashlight looking for >cheap (er, ah inexpensive) computer junk. > >o Had a couple of tables at the Northern New England PC shows, gave >hardware compatability lists to the different vendors.now I would just >give them a KNOPPIX CD. > >o Had lots of good speakers > >so we have nothing to really apologize for, but I do think we need
Re: sound card
Micheal, Did you get any responce to your question? What make/model is your motherboard. Unfortunately the list doesn't respond well to questions in the form of: "My XYZ is broke, can you fix it?" The list tends to promote self investigation and will mentor when you've run into a wall. So where are you in your trouble shooting? -- Bill Studley micheal kasuba wrote: The sound card is via ac97, its an onthe mother board sound card. Running linux 8 as I could not get linux 9 to install that I got from this club at the Hosstraderers Swapfest. Can one one help me get the sound card working. John Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it!
Re: OpenGL and nVidia question...
Brian H. Chabot wrote: [snip] Nevermind. It seems this was a known issue and was fixed in the latest release of the drivers... released... only 72 hours agao... about as long as I've been struggling with this. Grrr. That'll teach me not to keep a close eye on the forums every day. Thanks any way. Brian # glxgears 5711 frames in 5.0 seconds = 1142.200 FPS 6185 frames in 5.0 seconds = 1237.000 FPS 6189 frames in 5.0 seconds = 1237.800 FPS # nvidia-installer -i Welcome to the NVIDIA Software Installer for Unix/Linux The currently installed driver is: 'NVIDIA Accelerated Graphics Driver for Linux-x86' (version: 1.0-5336). -- --- | [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.hirebrian.net | |Simply the Best IT/MIS Manager | | Self-taught, Fast Learner, and Team Player | |Ready to Start TODAY at Your Company.| --- ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: OpenGL and nVidia question...
Tom Fogal wrote: oh, just read your glxinfo output, my bad.. oh well, other advice might help someone else =) HTH, -tom Well... as someone else suggested, I tried back-revving the drivers to version 4XXX. Not even going to install. Says it can't find the kernel appropriate binaries... Please don't make me recompile my kernel just for a lousy video driver... That would be a horrendous waste of time. So I poked around, tried changing settings back and forth... booting non-fb fixed the text mode resolution issue the nvidia drivers caused... but my framerate aon anything glx related was still abyssmal. glxgears is still between 5 and 6 fps. So I've been poking around otherwise with no luck. But I did find this in the syslog: Jan 29 23:34:48 alfred kernel: agpgart: AGP aperture is 64M @ 0xe000 Jan 29 23:34:48 alfred kernel: Unable to handle kernel paging request at virtual address f000edba Jan 29 23:34:48 alfred kernel: printing eip: Jan 29 23:34:48 alfred kernel: c02acfca Jan 29 23:34:48 alfred kernel: *pde = Jan 29 23:34:48 alfred kernel: Oops: Jan 29 23:34:48 alfred kernel: agpgart nvidia snd-seq-midi snd-opl3-synth snd-seq-instr snd-seq-midi-emul snd-ainstr-fm snd-seq-oss snd-seq -midi-event snd-seq snd-pcm-oss snd-mixer-oss snd-als4000 snd-sb-common snd-pcm snd-page-alloc snd-mpu401-uart snd-rawmidi snd-opl3-lib snd -timer snd-seq-device snd-hwdep snd soundcore af_packet usbmouse sr_mod floppy via-rhine mii nls_iso8859-1 nls_cp850 vfat fat supermount ex t3 jbd ide-cd cdrom ide-scsi scsi_mod keybdev mousedev hid input ehci-hcd usb-uhci usbcore rtc reiserfs Jan 29 23:34:48 alfred kernel: CPU:0 Jan 29 23:34:48 alfred kernel: EIP:0010:[pci_read_config_dword+26/48]Tainted: P Jan 29 23:34:48 alfred kernel: EIP:0010:[]Tainted: P Jan 29 23:34:48 alfred kernel: EFLAGS: 00013046 Jan 29 23:34:48 alfred kernel: EIP is at pci_read_config_dword+0x1a/0x30 [kernel] Jan 29 23:34:48 alfred kernel: eax: f000ed8a ebx: 3246 ecx: edx: 0048 Jan 29 23:34:48 alfred kernel: esi: 3116 edi: dffe4000 ebp: dede175c esp: dede1758 Jan 29 23:34:48 alfred kernel: ds: 0018 es: 0018 ss: 0018 Jan 29 23:34:48 alfred kernel: Process X (pid: 1402, stackpage=dede1000) Jan 29 23:34:48 alfred kernel: Stack: def9b400 dede177c e0b72496 0048 dede1778 e0b815ae def9b800 Jan 29 23:34:48 alfred kernel: dede178c e0b8c15d 0048 dede17b8 e0b84776 def9b400 Jan 29 23:34:48 alfred kernel: 0048 e0d4b7a0 dfe18000 db208000 dede17f4 db208000 Jan 29 23:34:48 alfred kernel: Call Trace: [snip for brevity - obviously the nvidia driver doing bad things] Jan 29 23:34:48 alfred kernel: Jan 29 23:34:48 alfred kernel: Code: 8b 40 30 ff 75 10 52 51 ff 50 08 83 c4 0c 53 9d 8b 5d fc c9 Jan 29 23:34:50 alfred xinetd: xinetd startup succeeded So I ran ksymoops and it tells me: Warning (compare_maps): mismatch on symbol _nv000173rm , nvidia says e0d51ca0, /lib/modules/2.4.22-10mdk/kernel/drivers/video/nvidia.o says e0d51a80. Ignoring /lib/modules/2.4.22-10mdk/kernel/drivers/video/nvidia.o entry Now to be perfectly onest, I'm *completely* lost here. Could someone possibly explain what all this might mean? I'm about at my wits end here. Any thoughts? Brian -- --- | [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.hirebrian.net | |Simply the Best IT/MIS Manager | | Self-taught, Fast Learner, and Team Player | |Ready to Start TODAY at Your Company.| --- ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
[ON Topic] How 'bout them Linux? Ain't they somethin?!
Hi, On another mailing list we are discussing some of the issues of the LUG: (1) Relatively low attendance at meetings (2) Lack of growth in the LUG to match the growth of the Linux industry (3) Distance between some of the goals of various members I glean that there are currently four types of people in the LUG and on this list: (a) The people who just like to get together every once in a while, have a beer, talk about Linux and Free and Open Source, see some new widget or program (b) The people who just like to talk about Linux and FOSS in email, share ideas, talk about problems (c) a+b (d) The people who would like GNHLUG to be pro-active, driving Linux and FOSS forward, but also admittedly welcome "c" Now believe me, I have no problems with any of the people in any of these groups. Usually the people who become the 'leaders' are in group "d", and they go on a while and burn out. Part of the burn out (IMHO) is trying to make the people in groups a-c be more like them. I never really "burned out", I just started traveling too much to attend meetings (but then again I am crazed.) In the past we have done some nice things: o New User Nights - gone out to towns and talked about free and open source in the libraries. Handed out floppies with information on them o Install fests o The Linux Business Show o Hoss Traders - You can't really say you have been at Hoss Traders until you have spent the night going around with a little flashlight looking for cheap (er, ah inexpensive) computer junk. o Had a couple of tables at the Northern New England PC shows, gave hardware compatability lists to the different vendors.now I would just give them a KNOPPIX CD. o Had lots of good speakers so we have nothing to really apologize for, but I do think we need to get more people into the LUG and be active in it, while still meeting the needs of the current members. So What do you look for in GNHLUG? What brings you to a meeting? What drives you away from a meeting? What would it take to get you to bring new members to a meeting? Would you be willing to volunteer for helping to pull off some "activity"? Would you be willing to spend a Saturday once or twice a year in staffing some project? Could you get your neighbor to do it? If so, do you have any activities that you would especially like to do? Particularly ones that you would be willing to participate in? Finally, after thirty-five years in the computer business it took a kid from Finland to remind me that I got into this space to have FUNso what things would you like to do that would be FUN? md -- Jon "maddog" Hall Executive Director Linux(R) International email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 80 Amherst St. Voice: +1.603.672.4557 Amherst, N.H. 03031-3032 U.S.A. WWW: http://www.li.org Board Member: Uniforum Association, USENIX Association (R)Linux is a registered trademark of Linus Torvalds in several countries. UNIX is a registered trademark of The Open Group in the US and other countries. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: OT: Voting results in NH
[EMAIL PROTECTED] said: > I'm sorry to disagree with Maddog, but I think it *is* Linux related, > although I never made the connection clear. Those of you who quickly turned to the issues of DCMA, Copyright law, etc. to justify the discussion that was in this list about whether or not the United States was or is a democracy/republic and who represented what, I do not buy it. The argument was about something strictly political, and quite frankly something you should have learned about in social studies. I have also heard these arguments and discussion on this list before, and to the same end. I could make the argument that the contents of my refrigerator has an indirect affect on the future of Linux, but I doubt that people would want to hear it. This last letter by Brian was nothing but an advertisement for a political point of view, had nothing to do with Linux other than his "justification" at the beginning. There are many, many newsgroups, mailing lists, etc. where you may argue the direct and indirect issues of government, where we are in the historical aspects of government, etc. are going on. You are all invited to please go there. Thanks, md -- Jon "maddog" Hall Executive Director Linux(R) International email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 80 Amherst St. Voice: +1.603.672.4557 Amherst, N.H. 03031-3032 U.S.A. WWW: http://www.li.org Board Member: Uniforum Association, USENIX Association (R)Linux is a registered trademark of Linus Torvalds in several countries. UNIX is a registered trademark of The Open Group in the US and other countries. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: OT: Voting results in NH
Since it's rude to inflict your non-Linux-related views on this captive audience (gathered here because we value this channel's blessedly high *LINUX-RELATED* S/N ratio) and since there are eleventy-bazillion other channels (USENET, email lists, blogs, barrooms, etc) where election-talk *is* welcome, and since the only lights likely to be shed on this topic are the sparks from axes being ground, I say to you all: How 'bout them Linux? Ain't they somethin?! ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: OT: Voting results in NH
Ed Robbins wrote: Ok, so it's not Linux related, but what a great discussion! I'm sorry to disagree with Maddog, but I think it *is* Linux related, although I never made the connection clear. Let me try to do so. Technology policy, Patent law, Copyright law and our government have consistently frightened me over the past couple years. The DMCA, Patriot Act, Sonny Bonehead Copyright Extension Act, RFID chips, DRM, and Carnivore are just a few examples. I believe that unless we can find a way to restore involvement in and greater accountability/clarity to the political process, our future will be determined by interestes antithetical to Linux. Our future as Linux developers/advocates/users is at stake. It could easily become illegal to do we we take for granted today: write free software and share 'intellectual property'. It is already challenged in a number of areas with DeCSS, and Adobe e-books being primary examples. I hope, naievely for sure, that a good leader in the White House might influence things in a better course than the one we are currently on. I do not know where the other candidates stand, but at least Howard Dean has released a policy on the Internet that favors 'openness' and has demonstrated his understanding of the power of the two-way, free-speech internet. http://www.deanforamerica.com/InternetPrinciples His policy is being attacked as one that "doesn't leave much room for property rights or free markets," http://www.avnonline.com/issues/200401/newsarchive/news_011504_8.shtml If nothing else, I'm happy to have started quite a discussion when it's been somewhat quiet lately :-) However, (and I'm really not looking for flames) I can't for the life of me understand why people still would vote for George Bush / Republican after 9/11 I'm also intrigued by this statement. Are you alluding to a cause and effect relationship, i.e. something Bush did that triggered the event? Or are you talking about the policy and actions after 9/11? I'm talking about the attempts after 9/11 to conceal policy and intelligence the administration had *before* 9/11 and the large amount of evidence that suggests a motive to cause a terrorist attack so that we could 'respond'. And I'm also referring to actions since. The evidence is in, there were no WMD in Iraq, just a bunch of oil fields and a good smokescreen to throw at the World. I'm talking about how spending billions on war has only made us more insecure with the War industrial machine the only beneficiary. The following facts gathered from http://commondreams.org The Administration - and Condoleezza Rice personally - made repeated, unequivocal statements that they were positive that Iraq had WMD, and that their 100% certainty was justification for an invasion. Some examples: Rice said on 10/30/03 that "Saddam is the only tyrant of our time not only to possess weapons of mass destruction, but to use them in acts of mass murder." Donald Rumsfeld said on 1/20/03 uneqivocally that "Saddam Hussein possesses chemical and biological weapons." President Bush said unequivocally on 1/3/03 Iraq "not only have weapons of mass destruction, they used weapons of mass destruction" and said definitively on 10/7/02 that "Iraq could decide on any given day to provide a biological or chemical weapon to a terrorist group or individual terrorists." Vice President Cheney said in August of 2002 "there is no doubt that Saddam Hussein now has weapons of mass destruction...to use against our friends, against our allies, and against us." FACT: "For diplomacy to be effective, words must be credible, and no one can now doubt the word of America." - President George W. Bush, 1/20/04 [Source] -- FREePHILE We are 'Open' for Business Free and Open Source Software http://www.freephile.com (978) 270-2425 Digital Manipulator exceeding velocity parameters
Re: Templated text to PS conversion
On Thu, 2004-01-29 at 14:59, Michael Costolo wrote: > --- Dan Coutu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I'm searching the net for this and thought I'd also ask here in case > > someone knows of such a beast already. > > > > I'm trying to find something that's like an enhanced txt2ps converter. > > It would not only convert text to PostScript, retaining the same layout, > > but also allow inserting of graphic elements, such as a logo, into the > > output in a pre-defined place. > > > > The idea is to be able to use textual reports, such as you get from > > ordinary SQL, and print them so that they look like they were typeset. > > The requirement to be able to add in at least one graphic is key. > > > > Ring any bells? Does anyone know of something like this out there? > > If you can make it so that you output some some LaTeX prior to your text output (and > after), you can add all the graphics you want and convert to PS or PDF: > Hmm, this might work. I'd have to make the filter to add in the Latex, do the conversion to PS and send it to the printer but that shouldn't be too hard. It would be harder to document how to use it so that a non-programmer could use the thing effectively, which is what I'll have to do. Thanks! -- Dan Coutu Managing Director Snowy Owl Internet Consulting, LLC http://www.snowy-owl.com/ ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Templated text to PS conversion
--- Dan Coutu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I'm searching the net for this and thought I'd also ask here in case
> someone knows of such a beast already.
>
> I'm trying to find something that's like an enhanced txt2ps converter.
> It would not only convert text to PostScript, retaining the same layout,
> but also allow inserting of graphic elements, such as a logo, into the
> output in a pre-defined place.
>
> The idea is to be able to use textual reports, such as you get from
> ordinary SQL, and print them so that they look like they were typeset.
> The requirement to be able to add in at least one graphic is key.
>
> Ring any bells? Does anyone know of something like this out there?
If you can make it so that you output some some LaTeX prior to your text output (and
after), you can add all the graphics you want and convert to PS or PDF:
% LaTeX preamble
\documentclass{report}
\usepackage{graphicx}
%
\begin{document}
% add your image
\includegraphics{filename}
%
\begin{verbatim}
% insert your text below
\end{verbatim}
\end{document}
Save as filename.tex. Run "latex filename.tex" then "dvips filename.dvi" to get
filename.ps.
This is one solution anyway.
-Mike-
=
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not
got it"
-George Bernard Shaw
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Templated text to PS conversion
I'm searching the net for this and thought I'd also ask here in case someone knows of such a beast already. I'm trying to find something that's like an enhanced txt2ps converter. It would not only convert text to PostScript, retaining the same layout, but also allow inserting of graphic elements, such as a logo, into the output in a pre-defined place. The idea is to be able to use textual reports, such as you get from ordinary SQL, and print them so that they look like they were typeset. The requirement to be able to add in at least one graphic is key. Ring any bells? Does anyone know of something like this out there? Thanks in advance, -- Dan Coutu Managing Director Snowy Owl Internet Consulting, LLC http://www.snowy-owl.com/ ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: OT: Voting results in NH
On Thu, Jan 29, 2004 at 02:13:38PM -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > On Thu, 29 Jan 2004, at 1:39pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > On Thu, 2004-01-29 at 10:57, Mark Komarinski wrote: > > > > George Bush = Hitler > > > > Max Cleland = Bin Laden > > > > > > > > There. Thread's over. > > > > > > > > > > Haha... Invoking Goodwin's Law Good one :) > > > > ITYM Godwin. > > Yes, but Quirk's Exception says that *intentionally* causing a Godwin > Event will not succeed in ending a discussion. > > ;-) Ah, but it did work, you see. Because all comments on this thread have...uhm...stopped...err..right. -Mark signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: OT: Voting results in NH
On Thu, 29 Jan 2004, at 1:39pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > On Thu, 2004-01-29 at 10:57, Mark Komarinski wrote: > > > George Bush = Hitler > > > Max Cleland = Bin Laden > > > > > > There. Thread's over. > > > > > > > Haha... Invoking Goodwin's Law Good one :) > > ITYM Godwin. Yes, but Quirk's Exception says that *intentionally* causing a Godwin Event will not succeed in ending a discussion. ;-) -- Ben Scott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> | The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do | | not represent the views or policy of any other person or organization. | | All information is provided without warranty of any kind. | ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Ken Coar on Slashdot / Slashnet
Bob Bell wrote: > Though I'd point out the following. Ken Coar at least used to be active > on this list, though I can't say I've heard much from him recently. i'm here. however, i'm swamped. i just came back from a gruelling trip (http://Ken.Coar.Org/gallery/lk2004/Sri_Lankan_Trip_1273x636) and am wading through the 34'000 messages that piled up in my absence. i spend too much time processing mail and not enough doing stuff. :-( > "It appears that Ken Coar will be doing an IRC chat[1] on Slashnet > today. Ken's an Apache core developer and director, as well as author > of The Apache Cookbook." > -- http://developers.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/01/29/1422251 > > And, being Slashdot, it was also announced yesterday: > "Robin 'Roblimo' Miller will be hosting an IRC interview with Ken > Coar[1] tomorrow. Registration for the discussion is required. This is > your chance to interview Ken Coar directly." > -- http://developers.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/01/28/2032233 > > [1] http://www.devchannel.org/article.pl?sid=04/01/16/1959229 #forum on irc.slashnet.org at 14h00 est today. -- #kenP-)} Ken Coar, Sanagendamgagwedweinini http://Golux.Com/coar/ Author, developer, opinionist http://Apache-Server.Com/ "Millennium hand and shrimp!" ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: multilanguage support
Derek, Why not use one of the Korean distributions? http://en.hancom.com/products/Hancomlinux_OS.html They also have a complete office package, which is the same as is delivered on the Sharp Zaurus. md -- Jon "maddog" Hall Executive Director Linux(R) International email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 80 Amherst St. Voice: +1.603.672.4557 Amherst, N.H. 03031-3032 U.S.A. WWW: http://www.li.org Board Member: Uniforum Association, USENIX Association (R)Linux is a registered trademark of Linus Torvalds in several countries. UNIX is a registered trademark of The Open Group in the US and other countries. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: OT: Voting results in NH
On Fri, 30 Jan 2004, at 1:22am, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >> As interesting as this discussion might be to a few, it has NOTHING to do >> with Linux. > > I have long been an advocate of the idea that anything that touches even > the fringes of Linux and open source software is on topic here. Given that this list doesn't have a charter or description, it is hard to call anything "off topic". Myself, I have always thought of this list as for *GNHLUG members*, and not just for Linux weenies. So topics which apply to GNHLUG members would be on-topic, even if they are non-Linux. However, that being said, I would like this thread to die, just because I've found that generalized political discussions in online forums *ALWAYS* go nowhere. They go on and on and on and on, ad infinitum, ad nauseum. They're simply a waste of time. So I strongly advise avoiding them. Discussions on a specific, focused topic (e.g., the DMCA) do not always go nowhere. Others do. (I refrain from giving examples, in an effort to avoid such discussions starting, but anyone who's been in (or even near) such a discussion will know exactly what I'm talking about.) -- Ben Scott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> | The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do | | not represent the views or policy of any other person or organization. | | All information is provided without warranty of any kind. | ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: OT: Voting results in NH
Derek Martin wrote: On Thu, Jan 29, 2004 at 11:08:02AM -0500, Ed Robbins wrote: Ok, so it's not Linux related, but what a great discussion! Kudos to Paul for pointing out that our form of government is not a democracy, it is in fact a republic. Jeez, can't get no respect, even amongst geeks... ;-) Derek, I hear by give unto thee an official "atta boy". Looking back through the thread I see that you pointed out this very point in an earlier response. My humblest apologies for any hardship I may have placed upon you for my lack of diligence. :-) Ed ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: multilanguage support
Derek - I use Debian stable with some extra repositories (listed below in case you or anybody else is interested). While I don't have a lot of call of asian characters, I do occasionally read some japanese web sites and the fonts appear to get displayed correctly with all the extra font packages I have installed. Oh yeah, my asian spam gets displayed "correctly" in evolution as well. 8) I am doing all of this in gnome. My apt sources looks like this: # Stable deb http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ stable main non-free contrib deb http://non-us.debian.org/debian-non-US stable/non-US main contrib non-free deb http://security.debian.org/ stable/updates main contrib non-free # Source deb-src http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ stable main non-free contrib deb-src http://non-us.debian.org/debian-non-US stable/non-US main contrib non-free # Unstable #deb http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ unstable main non-free contrib #deb http://non-us.debian.org/debian-non-US unstable/non-US main contrib non-free # Unofficial deb ftp://ftp.nerim.net/debian-marillat/ stable main # Gnome 2.x backported to woody deb http://ftp.acc.umu.se/mirror/mirrors.evilgeniuses.org.uk/debian/backports/woody/ gnome2.2/ # Open Office deb http://debian.nerp.net/OOo woody main contrib -- If we quit voting will they all go away? Cole Tuininga Lead Developer Code Energy, Inc [EMAIL PROTECTED] PGP Key ID: 0x43E5755D ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
multilanguage support
So, to turn my focus to something more directly Linux-related... These days, as many of you know, I'm living in South Korea. Hence, I have a more-than-occasional need to read and type Korean. Support for multiple languages at the same time has tended to be spotty at best, even in such recent and "polished" distros as RH9 (I'll ignore for the moment any arguments about how polished or how hated RH is). Things have gotten a lot better with some distros using Unicode by default. However, as anyone with the need to do so has discovered, Red Hat still falls short in that department. What I'm wondering is, does anyone know how the (obviously not stable) releases of Debian fare in that category? FWIW, if you don't occasionally use one of the Asian languages, then it's fairly likely that your answer will not be very useful to me. European languages are mostly similar enough that one can get by with only occasional headaches, even if things aren't really working properly... -- Derek D. Martin http://www.pizzashack.org/ GPG Key ID: 0xDFBEAD02 -=-=-=-=- This message is posted from an invalid address. Replying to it will result in undeliverable mail. Sorry for the inconvenience. Thank the spammers. pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
RE: OT: Voting results in NH
> That is also hogwash. Who wanted the DMCA? Who wanted the Patriot > act? NO ONE, except for those who it directly benefited (law > enforcement, RIAA/MPAA cartel, whatever). Those with enough money or > influence to see that they passed. Was there public outcry about > these bills, beforea they were passed? You bet your bippy there was. > Did they pass anyway? Sure as... um, anything that's certain, they > did. Just because you feel one way doesn't mean everybody does.. My brother thinks the patriot act is GREAT, as does my Dad. As far as the DMCA, you ask 10 people on the street (over 30) I bet 9 of them will go "the WHAT?!". They just don't care, and they don't even WANT to care. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Ken Coar on Slashdot / Slashnet
>"It appears that Ken Coar will be doing an IRC chat[1] on Slashnet >today. Ken's an Apache core developer and director, as well as author >of The Apache Cookbook." > -- http://developers.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/01/29/1422251 For what it's worth, I tech-reviewed the book and am in the acknowledgments . -- Morbus Iff ( i put the demon back in codemonkey ) Culture: http://www.disobey.com/ and http://www.gamegrene.com/ Spidering Hacks: http://amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0596005776/disobeycom icq: 2927491 / aim: akaMorbus / yahoo: morbus_iff / jabber.org: morbus ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: OT: Voting results in NH
On Thu, Jan 29, 2004 at 11:05:00AM -0500, Jon maddog Hall wrote: > Ladies and gentlemen, > > As interesting as this discussion might be to a few, it has NOTHING > to do with Linux. I have long been an advocate of the idea that anything that touches even the fringes of Linux and open source software is on topic here. I think that as we have seen from the passing of the DMCA, and its effect on numerous open source projects since then, that the political process and the will of those in power does very much have an impact on Linux and OSS. So I respectfully disagree. Nevertheless, I will defer, and refrain from posting on this topic from here on in. -- Derek D. Martin http://www.pizzashack.org/ GPG Key ID: 0xDFBEAD02 -=-=-=-=- This message is posted from an invalid address. Replying to it will result in undeliverable mail. Sorry for the inconvenience. Thank the spammers. pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: OT: Voting results in NH
On Thu, Jan 29, 2004 at 11:08:02AM -0500, Ed Robbins wrote: > Ok, so it's not Linux related, but what a great discussion! Kudos to > Paul for pointing out that our form of government is not a democracy, it > is in fact a republic. Jeez, can't get no respect, even amongst geeks... ;-) -- Derek D. Martin http://www.pizzashack.org/ GPG Key ID: 0xDFBEAD02 -=-=-=-=- This message is posted from an invalid address. Replying to it will result in undeliverable mail. Sorry for the inconvenience. Thank the spammers. pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: OT: Voting results in NH
On Thu, 2004-01-29 at 10:57, Mark Komarinski wrote: > George Bush = Hitler > Max Cleland = Bin Laden > > There. Thread's over. > Haha... Invoking Goodwin's Law Good one :) ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: OT: Voting results in NH
On Thu, Jan 29, 2004 at 10:10:41AM -0500, Paul Lussier wrote: > > In a message dated: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 14:28:29 +0900 > Derek Martin said: > > >Democracy died a long, long time ago. > > And Democracy has absolutely nothing to do with our form of government, > which is a Constitutional Republic. The two are very, very different! Agreed. However it has everything to do with the message to which I was replying. > >You're also overlooking the fact that this election was a PRIMARY, > >and the participants were Democtrats. The Republicans have an > >incumbant, so they don't need a primary. New Hampshire is still > >predominantly a Republican state. Most of the voters in NH need not > >cast a ballot. They have no one to vote for. If they are committed > >to the Republican party, there is no choice in the matter for them. > > Which is, IMO, the reason one should *never* permanently ally themselves > with any given party. In principle I disagree whole-heartedly with that statement. If one were to find a partu which embodied their phiolsiphy rather righorously, then one should ally themselves with it for as long as it continues to do so, even if that means permanently. In practice I again agree, because (practically speaking) we only have 2 parties, and they both suck. > Always retain your independance, and register as such. If a primary > comes up, you have a vote. I as an independant, were I a citizen of > NH, could have voted in the primary, and would have probably voted > for old Al. Not because I like him, or because I even have the > feintest notion he might win or make a decent president, but simply > because it would be one more vote cast and _against_ someone whom > I'd rather not see as President. In my opinion, that's not a good enough reason to support a candidate. And as I said, in the end, the candidates are not so different, so it doesn't matter anyway. > In other words, a vote can be used as much to vote *against* someone > as to vote *for* someone. It is our right *and* responsibility to vote. That's what those in power want you to beleive, because it makes you feel like you matter. It makes you feel empowered. But it's a load of horse shyte. Who counts the ballots? I seem to recall an issue in the last presidential election where there was some question about how many votes which candidate received... Some might argue that those who really make the decisions in this country manipulated the system until they got the result they wanted. I leavbe you to your own explanations (or delusions, as the case may be)... > Do so. I have better things to do with my time... Like harrass you. ;-) > >> Democracy and your freedom are the casualty of a system that no > >> longer can be called 'representative government'. > > > >The only sense in which our government ever was such a thing is that > >the decisions that are made represent the interests of those who make > >them. That's still true today. > > Again, our system is _NOT_ a Democracy. But again, the message to which I replied asserted that it was. You're right, it isn't. But I wasn't correcting /you/... > >Anyone who thinks their opinion is represented in our government is > >deluding themselves. If your elected leader's opinion truly > >represents your own opinion, you are the victim of a happy > >coincidence... > > I think it largely unlikely that any person's views ever 100% > co-incide with any other person's views. However, our system is > mostly a popularity contest. You vote for that candidate whom you > think most closely matches your views and whom you think will best > lead our nation in the direction you'd like to see it go. Maybe, but there's a question of whfether or not the candidates will do what they say they will (and the answer to that wone is a resounding "No!") and also how closely those candidates' actions represent what you want. If I manage to reply to another message I'm interested in replying to, I may have more to say about that. But maybe I won't... '-) > >Their votes represent our desires only insomuch as they need to > >in order to prevent sufficient discontent to incite open rioting and > >other forms of political instability. Beyond that, they represent the > >people who have money and power, just as they always have. > > I don't completely agree, though nor do I completely disagree. It sounds to me like what you're really saying is, "I don't want to admit (even to myself) that you might just be right about that." > The votes cast by members of congress are usually in-line with the > party they represent (usually Democrat or Republican, occasionally > others). Come on Paul, that's just silly. If it were true, then all Democrats would always vote the same way, and likewise Republicans. But that virtually never happens. Congress votes the way they're paid to. > They will always vote the way their constituency prefers > _IF_ their constituency makes that preference
Re: OT: Voting results in NH
Ladies and gentlemen, As interesting as this discussion might be to a few, it has NOTHING to do with Linux. Please stop. Thanks. md -- Jon "maddog" Hall Executive Director Linux(R) International email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 80 Amherst St. Voice: +1.603.672.4557 Amherst, N.H. 03031-3032 U.S.A. WWW: http://www.li.org Board Member: Uniforum Association, USENIX Association (R)Linux is a registered trademark of Linus Torvalds in several countries. UNIX is a registered trademark of The Open Group in the US and other countries. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Ken Coar on Slashdot / Slashnet
Though I'd point out the following. Ken Coar at least used to be active on this list, though I can't say I've heard much from him recently. "It appears that Ken Coar will be doing an IRC chat[1] on Slashnet today. Ken's an Apache core developer and director, as well as author of The Apache Cookbook." -- http://developers.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/01/29/1422251 And, being Slashdot, it was also announced yesterday: "Robin 'Roblimo' Miller will be hosting an IRC interview with Ken Coar[1] tomorrow. Registration for the discussion is required. This is your chance to interview Ken Coar directly." -- http://developers.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/01/28/2032233 [1] http://www.devchannel.org/article.pl?sid=04/01/16/1959229 -- Bob Bell ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: OT: Voting results in NH
Ok, so it's not Linux related, but what a great discussion! Kudos to Paul for pointing out that our form of government is not a democracy, it is in fact a republic. However, that being said, we do have many democratic process' and institutions, the New England town meeting is a perfect example of that. brian wrote: On Thu, 2004-01-29 at 10:20, Greg Rundlett wrote: However, (and I'm really not looking for flames) I can't for the life of me understand why people still would vote for George Bush / Republican after 9/11 I'm also intrigued by this statement. Are you alluding to a cause and effect relationship, i.e. something Bush did that triggered the event? Or are you talking about the policy and actions after 9/11? And that's what makes this country interesting, the ability to vote your choice. Do you somehow believe that George Bush *caused* 9/11 or that a Democratic president would have handled the situation better? I personally can't understand why any able-bodied person would vote Democrat... ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: OT: Voting results in NH
On Thu, Jan 29, 2004 at 10:29:33AM -0500, brian wrote: > On Thu, 2004-01-29 at 10:20, Greg Rundlett wrote: > > However, (and I'm really not looking for flames) I can't for the life of > > me understand why people still would vote for George Bush / Republican > > after 9/11 > > And that's what makes this country interesting, the ability to vote your > choice. > > Do you somehow believe that George Bush *caused* 9/11 or that a > Democratic president would have handled the situation better? > > I personally can't understand why any able-bodied person would vote > Democrat... George Bush = Hitler Max Cleland = Bin Laden There. Thread's over. But go vote for the person you think will do the best job. -Mark signature.asc Description: Digital signature
RE: OT: Voting results in NH
> However, (and I'm really not looking for flames) I can't for the life of > me understand why people still would vote for George Bush / Republican > after 9/11 Because some people think he's the best person for the job? For whatever reason.. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
RE: OT: Voting results in NH
> I as an independant, > were I a citizen of NH, could have voted in the primary, and would > have probably voted for old Al. Not because I like him, or because I > even have the feintest notion he might win or make a decent president, > but simply because it would be one more vote cast and _against_ someone > whom I'd rather not see as President. > > In other words, a vote can be used as much to vote *against* someone > as to vote *for* someone. It is our right *and* responsibility to vote. > Do so. This is a good point. And I wouldn't really suggest voting for somebody else that's actually on the ballot. Some guy on the radio on my way home suggested writing in yourself. If millions of people did that then it would send a very clear message. That's better then voting for somebody on the ballot already because you might end up voting some boob in (not that I'm saying Al is a boob, this goes for any election) that will really screw things up. > >no candidate ever keeps their promises. > > I would re-phrase this to: > > No candidate is able to keep all of promises made > on the campaign trail. I don't think that it's even possible to do so. They make comprimises to make everybody happy, or give up one of their campaign promises to get somebody to vote for another one. > >I will not vote because I will not contribute to the > >mass dilusion that my vote is valuable. My vote is utterly worthless, > >and so is yours. > > > >Yeah, maybe I'm a cynic. Or, maybe I'm just awake... > > No, I think you're a cynic and no overly well informed. Not only that.. Currently the ONLY way to make a change is by voting. In 2000 I voted for Nader, not because I wanted him to be president, but because I wanted to show that there can be a viable 3rd party. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: OT: Voting results in NH
On Thu, Jan 29, 2004 at 10:20:51AM -0500, Greg Rundlett wrote: > > . I'm finally convinced that we have to vote in order > to change things. The point of my original post was that we need to > vote. We cannot be conscientous objectors because it will not change > things, only make it worse. Should we consider changing the current system to use only "votes against" each candidate? This way, in any given election, you can only designate who you don't want. The candidate with the fewest votes against is elected. Would this change things? -- Jeff Kinz, Open-PC, Emergent Research, Hudson, MA. "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" is copyright 2003. Use is restricted. Any use is an acceptance of the offer at http://www.kinz.org/policy.html. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: OT: Voting results in NH
On Thu, 2004-01-29 at 10:20, Greg Rundlett wrote: > However, (and I'm really not looking for flames) I can't for the life of > me understand why people still would vote for George Bush / Republican > after 9/11 And that's what makes this country interesting, the ability to vote your choice. Do you somehow believe that George Bush *caused* 9/11 or that a Democratic president would have handled the situation better? I personally can't understand why any able-bodied person would vote Democrat... ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: OT: Voting results in NH
I strongly agree with Derek that Democracy doesn't exist in America. The facts also show the current administration has so badly defrauded the population that I'm finally convinced that we have to vote in order to change things. The point of my original post was that we need to vote. We cannot be conscientous objectors because it will not change things, only make it worse. I am thankful that many have contributed information about how this was a primary, and that Republicans didn't have much cause to vote. I just assumed they would, because I saw some of the vote tallies including Republican votes. The numbers do add up to a record turnout. I hope that participation in the political process continues to grow rapidly. It seems that Howard Dean has leveraged the power of the internet to bring people back into the process. However, (and I'm really not looking for flames) I can't for the life of me understand why people still would vote for George Bush / Republican after 9/11 -- FREePHILE We are 'Open' for Business Free and Open Source Software http://www.freephile.com (978) 270-2425 There *__is* no such thing as a civil engineer. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: OT: Voting results in NH
In a message dated: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 14:28:29 +0900 Derek Martin said: >Democracy died a long, long time ago. And Democracy has absolutely nothing to do with our form of government, which is a Constitutional Republic. The two are very, very different! >You're also overlooking the fact that this election was a PRIMARY, >and the participants were Democtrats. The Republicans have an >incumbant, so they don't need a primary. New Hampshire is still >predominantly a Republican state. Most of the voters in NH need not >cast a ballot. They have no one to vote for. If they are committed >to the Republican party, there is no choice in the matter for them. Which is, IMO, the reason one should *never* permanently ally themselves with any given party. Always retain your independance, and register as such. If a primary comes up, you have a vote. I as an independant, were I a citizen of NH, could have voted in the primary, and would have probably voted for old Al. Not because I like him, or because I even have the feintest notion he might win or make a decent president, but simply because it would be one more vote cast and _against_ someone whom I'd rather not see as President. In other words, a vote can be used as much to vote *against* someone as to vote *for* someone. It is our right *and* responsibility to vote. Do so. >> Democracy and your freedom are the casualty of a system that no >> longer can be called 'representative government'. > >The only sense in which our government ever was such a thing is that >the decisions that are made represent the interests of those who make >them. That's still true today. Again, our system is _NOT_ a Democracy. >Anyone who thinks their opinion is represented in our government is >deluding themselves. If your elected leader's opinion truly >represents your own opinion, you are the victim of a happy >coincidence... I think it largely unlikely that any person's views ever 100% co-incide with any other person's views. However, our system is mostly a popularity contest. You vote for that candidate whom you think most closely matches your views and whom you think will best lead our nation in the direction you'd like to see it go. >At best, our government is a democratic replublic, where we elect >leaders to make our decisions for us. It's a Constitutionally limited Republic. >Their votes represent our desires only insomuch as they need to >in order to prevent sufficient discontent to incite open rioting and >other forms of political instability. Beyond that, they represent the >people who have money and power, just as they always have. I don't completely agree, though nor do I completely disagree. The votes cast by members of congress are usually in-line with the party they represent (usually Democrat or Republican, occasionally others). They will always vote the way their constituency prefers _IF_ their constituency makes that preference known, for it is that constituency and _only_ that constituency which places them in that office and which has the power to remove them from office. (take the recent change of Governor of Cal. as a perfect example!) Absent a loud cry from their constituency, a member of congress will fall back on the position of their party to decide which way to vote. Very occasionally there will be a member of congress who crosses party lines and votes their conscience (e.g. Joe Lieberman and his vote to support President Bush in going into Iraq) >The candidates are virtually indistinguishable, I disagree with this completely. I think there is a huge difference between the various candidates currently vying for the Office of POTUS. You can't possibly say there isn't a difference between Lieberman and Sharpton, or between Mosely-Braun (who has since dropped out) and Clark! Even between the top 4 candidates there is measurable difference. If you are unable to see it, then I contend that either you haven't been paying attention, or you're blind. >no candidate ever keeps their promises. I would re-phrase this to: No candidate is able to keep all of promises made on the campaign trail. I don't think anyone alive realistically votes for a candidate based on the expectation that the promises made during the heat of a campaign will be kept. In most cases, those campaigning are making promises they'd most like to keep, but once in office, discover it impossible to do so for a variety of reasons mostly beyond their control. (this is not to negate the fact that there are completely empty promises made with no expectation by the candidate they'll ever even try to fulfill them, obviously this happens all the time). By way of example, I'm thinking of Pres. Bush Sr.'s campaign promise of 'No New Taxes', which obviously wasn't kept. Many automatically attribute this to an empty promise. However, if one investigates what actually happened, it turns out that Congress all but forced him to sign the bill levying taxes, and even if he
Re: Dictionary attacks from spammers.
On Thu, 29 Jan 2004, at 8:07am, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Is anyone else getting this recently? *Recently*? No. It's been going on for some time now. -- Ben Scott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> | The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do | | not represent the views or policy of any other person or organization. | | All information is provided without warranty of any kind. | ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
sound card
The sound card is via ac97, its an onthe mother board sound card. Running linux 8 as I could not get linux 9 to install that I got from this club at the Hosstraderers Swapfest. Can one one help me get the sound card working. John Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it!
Dictionary attacks from spammers.
Is anyone else getting this recently? My mail server is being pounded with a kind of spam "dictionary attack" using common first names, ie [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], etc. It makes a ton of noise in the logs and the host that's doing it is making hundreds of attempts per day. In the past week I've had three different hosts try it, and it's annoying enough that I've to firewall the offenders and notify the abuse contact. Scott ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: OT: Voting results in NH
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Thu, 29 Jan 2004 14:28:29 +0900 Derek Martin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Democracy died a long, long time ago. The United States has been a republic since June 21, 1788 when New Hampshire ratified the constitution. When we vote for the president, all we do is vote for electors. They then cast their votes for the president. So, no one on this list voted for George Bush for president in 2000 unless that person was actually one of the electors. In 1788, women did not have the vote. Many people who did not own property likewise did not have the vote. Candidates were selected in the various party conventions. And several presidents did not have the popular vote majority. - -- Jerry Feldman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Boston Linux and Unix user group http://www.blu.org PGP key id:C5061EA9 PGP Key fingerprint:053C 73EC 3AC1 5C44 3E14 9245 FB00 3ED5 C506 1EA9 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFAGQBB+wA+1cUGHqkRAoDYAJ9bp7jj01gr2JMzOsD602IeKXqAVgCeOtUl 4wyZTIVjPSp4l8IiQdOcG/Q= =fNu2 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
