Re: Passwords: does size matter, what characters?
On 3/10/06, Jason Stephenson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Drew Van Zandt wrote:> Also... what drives me crazy is that requirements conflict on websites> where security isn't important anyway, so I can't use the same> password for all the ones that don't really matter. PASSWORDS ARE > NEVER GOING TO BE THAT STRONG, get over it and use real authentication> (2-factor) if it's that important.Ah, yes, two-factor authentication based on something you can forget andsomething you can lose. ;) Seriously, though, I believe that passwords are great for letting peoplein and lousy at keeping people out.I *think* I mostly agree with Drew, though. I actually do use the sameor very similar passwords on many different web sites where the security doesn't really matter.When I need a "good" password, I run my little pgen program that spitsout line noise (or the equivalent). I write it down, and after I've usedit a couple of times, my fingers remember it. I've had good luck with using Strip from Zetic to store passwords on my Palm. It encrypts the password database, you can carry it with you if you have a Palm and you can run it within an emulator on Linux or Windows or MacOS if you break your Palm. I have a script that starts the emulator using the most recent sync'd strip DB. ___gnhlug-discuss mailing listgnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss-- A strong conviction that something must be done is the parent of many bad measures. - Daniel Webster
Re: Suggestions for capturing license plate info?
A friend suggested picking up a night vision scope in hopes of capturing the license number.Does anyone have any other suggestions?-Alex Maybe something like a game trail camera This is like something from Make: http://www.jesseshunting.com/site/homebrew-cams.htmlThere are commercial setups too. -- A strong conviction that something must be done is the parent of many bad measures. - Daniel Webster
Debian Kernels
All, I have been using Debian testing for a long time now, and one of the nice things is the range of kernels in apt. However, recently, some kernels seem to have been pulled out of the repository. The 2.6 kernels after 2.6.8 and before 2.6.15 don't exist in stable, testing, or unstable anymore. Has anyone else seen this? I can't find any reason for pulling kernels out of the repo, and usually they keep kernels in but change the default. Anyone have any ideas? C-Ya, Kenny ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Bootable partitions
Hi all, Does anyone know if actually marking a partition as "Bootable" really matters? We're trying to partition some drives in an automated fashion (using FAI) in orer to test some software installation/upgrading procedures. Unfortunately, FAI only allows for a single partition to be marked as "Bootable". This seems like a silly and arbitraty restriction, unfortunately, circumventing it is going to be a pain. If it doesn't matter, I won't bother, otherwise I'll probably have to write a post-install script which wraps around sfdisk. Thanks. -- Seeya, Paul ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Bootable partitions
On Mon, Mar 13, 2006 at 10:03:59AM -0500, Paul Lussier wrote: > > Hi all, > > Does anyone know if actually marking a partition as "Bootable" really > matters? We're trying to partition some drives in an automated > fashion (using FAI) in orer to test some software > installation/upgrading procedures. Unfortunately, FAI only allows for > a single partition to be marked as "Bootable". > > This seems like a silly and arbitraty restriction, unfortunately, > circumventing it is going to be a pain. If it doesn't matter, I won't > bother, otherwise I'll probably have to write a post-install script > which wraps around sfdisk. I don't think it matters, not if you have LILO or GRUB in the MBR. -Mark signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Bootable partitions
Mark Komarinski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > I don't think it matters, not if you have LILO or GRUB in the MBR. Then what's the point of this flag? Is it merely a legacy thing which used to mean something before (somewhat) intelligent bootloaders came along? -- Seeya, Paul ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Bootable partitions
On 3/13/06, Paul Lussier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Does anyone know if actually marking a partition as "Bootable" really > matters? You neglect to mention the hardware platform. Assuming you're talking the IBM-PC: There is no "bootable" flag. There is a flag for the active primary partition. The active primary partition is the partition which gets booted by any standard MBR. The BIOS loads the MBR (Master Boot Record -- the first block on the disk). The MBR looks at the partition table, finds the active primary partition, loads the PBR (Partition Boot Record -- first block in the partition) from it, and jumps into that. You're only supposed to have one active partition at a time, but I expect most implementations just boot the first one they find, so having more probably won't prevent you from booting, but also won't do you any good. Plus, most partition tools will see multiple active partitions as an error (which is is, really) and fix it for you. The partition type should be totally ignored by a standard MBR. (Well, it might object to trying to boot a type 0 (unused) partition.) If you have LILO or GRUB installed in place of the standard MBR, the "active" flag is totally ignored, and the boot loader config file takes over. > Unfortunately, FAI only allows for > a single partition to be marked as "Bootable". I'd guess FAI is using "bootable" to mean "active primary", but that's just a guess. What does FAI's "bootable" actually translate to in IBM-PC terms? -- Ben ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Bootable partitions
On Mon, Mar 13, 2006 at 10:15:13AM -0500, Paul Lussier wrote: > Mark Komarinski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > I don't think it matters, not if you have LILO or GRUB in the MBR. > > Then what's the point of this flag? Is it merely a legacy thing which > used to mean something before (somewhat) intelligent bootloaders came > along? Yes. I remember the restriction of only one bootable flag per drive. I think it goes back to DOS days. -Mark signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Bootable partitions
I think that the bootable flag is used to help the BIOS guess where to look for boot code if it's not in the MBR. If you put a boot loader on the MBR, you can ignore this flag. Paul Lussier said: > Mark Komarinski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > >> I don't think it matters, not if you have LILO or GRUB in the MBR. > > Then what's the point of this flag? Is it merely a legacy thing which > used to mean something before (somewhat) intelligent bootloaders came > along? > > -- > > Seeya, > Paul > ___ > gnhlug-discuss mailing list > gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org > http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss > ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Acceptance of OpenOffice.org (was Re: Gov't , economics and technology (was Re: METROCAST BLOCKS RESIDENTIAL E-MAIL))
Kuni Tetsu wrote: The biggest road block I have seen to the acceptance of Open Office is the fact that they do not have the same menues as the products they are trying to supplant. Yesterday, my ten year old daughter wanted to use the computer that has OpenOffice.org. When I asked why she said because she couldn't figure out how to do something with MS Office but knew how to do it with OpenOffice.org. Actually, she didn't mention the office suites by name, she just said that computer and this computer. Apparently she had learned how to do something on OpenOffice.org and when it wasn't the same on MS Office it was easier to just go back to OpenOffice.org. So I'm thinking that maybe successful acceptance of OpenOffice.org requires us getting it into the school systems. Larry ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Bootable partitions
On 3/13/06, Paul Lussier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> I don't think it matters, not if you have LILO or GRUB in the MBR. > > Then what's the point of this flag? Is it merely a legacy thing which > used to mean something before (somewhat) intelligent bootloaders came > along? Continuing from my previous message... Setting the active primary partition allowed one to select which partition to boot in an OS-independent fashion. This was consider a fairly radical idea on the IBM-PC platform in the mid 1980's. :) If you are using GRUB or LILO to replace the standard MBR, the active flag has no effect. If you are *not* doing that (i.e., you have GRUB/LILO installed in a PBR), the active flag still controls which PBR gets booted, so it *does* matter in that case. There are reasons to do this. The "install the boot loader in the MBR" introduces non-standard behavior. Now, the IBM-PC platform is pretty much hopeless from the standpoint anyway, but sometimes one cares. In particular, some manufacturers (notably Compaq (now HP, I guess)) provide diagnostics and utilties in a separate partition, and keeping that partition bootable via the "standard" means is often important. The active flag also influences drive letter ordering under various non-Linux OSes (not so much modern Windoze, but the older stuff), but I assume you don't care about that. -- Ben ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Bootable partitions
On 3/13/06, Darrell Michaud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I think that the bootable flag is used to help the BIOS guess where to > look for boot code if it's not in the MBR. If you put a boot loader on the > MBR, you can ignore this flag. The standard BIOS is ignorant of partitions and such. All the BIOS does is look for the boot signature and load the MBR. After that, it's up to whatever was there. Hopefully it was boot code. :) ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Bootable partitions
"Ben Scott" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > On 3/13/06, Paul Lussier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> Does anyone know if actually marking a partition as "Bootable" really >> matters? > > You neglect to mention the hardware platform. > > Assuming you're talking the IBM-PC: There is no "bootable" flag. Are there any other platforms out there these days ;) > If you have LILO or GRUB installed in place of the standard MBR, the > "active" flag is totally ignored, and the boot loader config file > takes over. This is exactly what I was hoping to hear :) > I'd guess FAI is using "bootable" to mean "active primary", but > that's just a guess. What does FAI's "bootable" actually translate to > in IBM-PC terms? No idea. I'm using 'bootable' as seen in [cs]fdisk when partitioning a drive. -- Seeya, Paul ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Debian Kernels
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > All, > > I have been using Debian testing for a long time now, and one of the > nice things is the range of kernels in apt. However, recently, some > kernels seem to have been pulled out of the repository. The 2.6 > kernels after 2.6.8 and before 2.6.15 don't exist in stable, testing, > or unstable anymore. Has anyone else seen this? I can't find any > reason for pulling kernels out of the repo, and usually they keep > kernels in but change the default. Anyone have any ideas? It could be the repo you're poining at has removed them. Not all mirrors mirror everything... Another possibility is there was a major flaw in the packages for those images. re the source debs available? If so, jen just re-build your own image debs from them, throw them in a local mirror and move on with life :) If not, see if they can be found at http://pdo.debian.net/ (the replacement for packages.debian.org). -- Seeya, Paul ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Acceptance of OpenOffice.org (was Re: Gov't , economics and technology (was Re: METROCAST BLOCKS RESIDENTIAL E-MAIL))
> So I'm thinking that maybe successful acceptance of OpenOffice.org requires > us getting it into the school systems. I agree completely. And a complicating factor is that many computer "teachers" aren't really teaching computer sci or generic computing concepts, but instead they're teaching Windows and MS apps. I've seen far, far too many teachers which, when confronted with a Mac or any app other than the standard one they use, will be absolutely lost. The resistance I've found is not at the school board level. Boards will query whether OOo or free software is popular enough in the "business world" to teach to kids (a semi-legit question), but the dollars and cents angle swings the board every time. The actual resistance I've seen will come from the local computer teachers. Add to that the "if it doesn't cost anything it can't be worth anything" assumption (heavily ingrained in the educational bureaucracy) and converting public schools is difficult. Regards, . Randy -- "If this war is so righteous, why don't you send your children?" -- Mother of dead GI Susan Niederer to First Lady Laura Bush (Bush didn't answer). ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Acceptance of OpenOffice.org (was Re: Gov't , economics and technology (was Re: METROCAST BLOCKS RESIDENTIAL E-MAIL))
On Monday 13 March 2006 11:28 am, Randy Edwards wrote: > > So I'm thinking that maybe successful acceptance of OpenOffice.org > > requires us getting it into the school systems. > >I agree completely. And a complicating factor is that many computer > "teachers" aren't really teaching computer sci or generic computing > concepts, but instead they're teaching Windows and MS apps. I've seen > far, far too many teachers which, when confronted with a Mac or any app > other than the standard one they use, will be absolutely lost. > >The resistance I've found is not at the school board level. Boards > will query whether OOo or free software is popular enough in the > "business world" to teach to kids (a semi-legit question), but the > dollars and cents angle swings the board every time. The actual > resistance I've seen will come from the local computer teachers. Add to > that the "if it doesn't cost anything it can't be worth anything" > assumption (heavily ingrained in the educational bureaucracy) and > converting public schools is difficult. The school systems are not teaching computer science, they are teaching computer usage. There are a few issues where we might be able to make some progress, at least with OO.o. first, Microsoft Office licenses are expensive even for public schools that get lower prices. One could use the cost issue. But the business issue is very important because many businesses may require "MS Word, MW Exel" experience. The other problem is the teachers. In recent years, fortunately, many of our professional colleagues have changed their professions and are now teaching. But, historically, teachers are not the most knowledgeable people when it comes to computers. This will change in time. In any case, the focus of many of these schools is not so much training as is giving the students experience that they can document on a resume. -- Jerry Feldman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Boston Linux and Unix user group http://www.blu.org PGP key id:C5061EA9 PGP Key fingerprint:053C 73EC 3AC1 5C44 3E14 9245 FB00 3ED5 C506 1EA9 ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Intel NICs, Cisco, autoneg, and borken-ness
Hi all, I've got a system up running Debian and a 2.4.22 kernel. The primary NIC is: eth1 Link encap:Ethernet HWaddr 00:07:E9:0C:99:2D inet addr:10.0.0.11 Bcast:10.0.255.255 Mask:255.255.0.0 # netstat -rn Kernel IP routing table Destination Gateway Genmask Flags MSS Window irtt Iface 10.0.0.0 0.0.0.0 255.255.0.0 U 0 0 0 eth1 0.0.0.0 10.0.0.10.0.0.0 UG0 0 0 eth1 2 weeks ago I manually configured a second interface on this system to be on a second network. I configured the second interface to be on 10.95.0.11/16: eth0 Link encap:Ethernet HWaddr 00:0C:76:14:02:42 inet addr:10.95.0.11 Bcast:10.95.255.255 Mask:255.255.0.0 # netstat -rn Kernel IP routing table Destination Gateway Genmask Flags MSS Window irtt Iface 10.95.0.0 0.0.0.0 255.255.0.0 U 0 0 0 eth0 0.0.0.0 10.95.0.1 0.0.0.0 UG0 0 0 eth0 Using ethtool, I can see that the NIC is hard-wired to be 100baseT/Full: # ethtool eth0 Settings for eth0: Supported ports: [ TP ] Supported link modes: 10baseT/Half 10baseT/Full 100baseT/Half 100baseT/Full 1000baseT/Full Supports auto-negotiation: Yes Speed: 100Mb/s Duplex: Full Port: Twisted Pair PHYAD: 0 Transceiver: internal Auto-negotiation: off Supports Wake-on: umbg Wake-on: d This NIC is connected to a Cisco 4507 running IOS[1][2], which has autoneg turned off and that port set to (so I'm told) 100Mb/Full. When I bring up the interface, I have link on both the switch and the server, but I can't ping anywhere. I can't ping the gateway, 10.95.0.1, nor can I ping the other 6 systems I have configured on this switch, 10.95.33.[23,25,26,27,28,29]. These other 6 systems can all ping each other and the gateway. The server can ping no one, including the gateway. Since this is a /16, the gateway is the same for all systems, 10.95.0.1. 2 weeks ago, I'm certain I had this interface configured *and* working just fine. Today, nothing I've tried seems to work[3]. I've ifup/ifdown'ed several times, tried manually configuring the interface via ifconfig, manually set the interface 100Mb/Full, 1000Mb/Full, autneg, etc. and changing everything on the switch to correspond with these settings, and nothing works. I get a link light on the switch and server *only* when 100Mb/Full is hardwired on the switch, so it seems logical that I need to set the NIC to that speed, but that doesn't work either. dmesg, syslog, and kern.log all show: kernel: e1000: eth0 NIC Link is Up 100 Mbps Full Duplex yet, still no ping... Any ideas would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Footnotes: -- [1] (as opposed to CatIOS) [2] Full version info: Cisco IOS Software, Catalyst 4000 L3 Switch Software (cat4000-I9K91S-M), Version 12.2(25)EWA4, RELEASE SOFTWARE (fc1) [3] Given that this is my core NFS server, rebooting is not an option :( -- Seeya, Paul ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Intel NICs, Cisco, autoneg, and borken-ness
> 2 weeks ago, I'm certain I had this interface configured *and* > working just fine. Nevertheless, if it were me I'd connect the cable in question to some other known working system as a basic sanity test... ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Debian Kernels
-- Original message -- From: Paul Lussier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > It could be the repo you're poining at has removed them. Not all > mirrors mirror everything... I checked. They aren't available from the top level mirrors (ftp.debian.org, etc.), or any of the sub-mirrors that I normally use (kernel.org, ibilbo.org, us.debian.org). > Another possibility is there was a major > flaw in the packages for those images. re the source debs available? > If so, jen just re-build your own image debs from them, throw them in > a local mirror and move on with life :) I still have the packages for the kernel, which I can throw in my local mirror. That isn't a problem. I'm just wondering if there was some major flaw in those kernels that caused them to be pulled. However, I can't find any news on any lists that would indicate such a problem... > If not, see if they can be > found at http://pdo.debian.net/ (the replacement for packages.debian.org). I'll have to check that out. Thanks, Kenny ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Intel NICs, Cisco, autoneg, and borken-ness
>> 2 weeks ago, I'm certain I had this interface configured *and* >> working just fine. > >Nevertheless, if it were me I'd connect the cable in question >to some other known working system as a basic sanity test... I was going to add that I mentioned that because I've recently been victimized by an Extreme switch that negotiated link just fine at the PHY level but was still hosed internally. This was a particularly nasty failure mode because the connected NIC on the client machine was part of a bonded team and the expected fault-tolerance was not obtained (ie. it failed to failover) because it was configured for MII monitoring instead of ARP monitoring, and everything was working just fine, at least as far as the MII stuff was concerned. >-/ ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Intel NICs, Cisco, autoneg, and borken-ness
Can you try more then just ping? Try tracerouting to another network to see where the traffic stops, or where it tries to go. Try using lynx to open a web page. Sometimes someone does something dumb on a router like disallowing ICMP, or, in Cisco's case, tuning on "ICMP-Helper", which I have seen to have the same effect as blocking ICMP (not very helpful...). Also, check the cable. You can have link light with but a single wire in a pair :-) C-Ya, Kenny -- Original message -- From: Paul Lussier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Hi all, > > I've got a system up running Debian and a 2.4.22 kernel. > The primary NIC is: > > eth1 Link encap:Ethernet HWaddr 00:07:E9:0C:99:2D > inet addr:10.0.0.11 Bcast:10.0.255.255 Mask:255.255.0.0 > > > # netstat -rn > Kernel IP routing table > Destination Gateway Genmask Flags MSS Window irtt Iface > 10.0.0.0 0.0.0.0 255.255.0.0 U 0 0 0 eth1 > 0.0.0.0 10.0.0.10.0.0.0 UG0 0 0 eth1 > > > 2 weeks ago I manually configured a second interface on this system to > be on a second network. I configured the second interface to be on > 10.95.0.11/16: > > > eth0 Link encap:Ethernet HWaddr 00:0C:76:14:02:42 > inet addr:10.95.0.11 Bcast:10.95.255.255 Mask:255.255.0.0 > > # netstat -rn > Kernel IP routing table > Destination Gateway Genmask Flags MSS Window irtt Iface > 10.95.0.0 0.0.0.0 255.255.0.0 U 0 0 0 eth0 > 0.0.0.0 10.95.0.1 0.0.0.0 UG0 0 0 eth0 > > Using ethtool, I can see that the NIC is hard-wired to be 100baseT/Full: > > # ethtool eth0 > Settings for eth0: > > Supported ports: [ TP ] > Supported link modes: 10baseT/Half 10baseT/Full > 100baseT/Half 100baseT/Full > 1000baseT/Full > Supports auto-negotiation: Yes > Speed: 100Mb/s > Duplex: Full > Port: Twisted Pair > PHYAD: 0 > Transceiver: internal > Auto-negotiation: off > Supports Wake-on: umbg > Wake-on: d > > This NIC is connected to a Cisco 4507 running IOS[1][2], which has > autoneg turned off and that port set to (so I'm told) 100Mb/Full. > When I bring up the interface, I have link on both the switch and the > server, but I can't ping anywhere. I can't ping the gateway, > 10.95.0.1, nor can I ping the other 6 systems I have configured on > this switch, 10.95.33.[23,25,26,27,28,29]. These other 6 systems can > all ping each other and the gateway. The server can ping no one, > including the gateway. Since this is a /16, the gateway is the same > for all systems, 10.95.0.1. > > 2 weeks ago, I'm certain I had this interface configured *and* working > just fine. Today, nothing I've tried seems to work[3]. I've > ifup/ifdown'ed several times, tried manually configuring the interface > via ifconfig, manually set the interface 100Mb/Full, 1000Mb/Full, > autneg, etc. and changing everything on the switch to correspond with > these settings, and nothing works. I get a link light on the switch > and server *only* when 100Mb/Full is hardwired on the switch, so it > seems logical that I need to set the NIC to that speed, but that > doesn't work either. > > dmesg, syslog, and kern.log all show: > > kernel: e1000: eth0 NIC Link is Up 100 Mbps Full Duplex > > yet, still no ping... > > Any ideas would be greatly appreciated. > > Thanks, > > Footnotes: > -- > [1] (as opposed to CatIOS) > [2] Full version info: >Cisco IOS Software, Catalyst 4000 >L3 Switch Software (cat4000-I9K91S-M), Version 12.2(25)EWA4, >RELEASE SOFTWARE (fc1) > [3] Given that this is my core NFS server, rebooting is not an option :( > > -- > Seeya, > Paul > ___ > gnhlug-discuss mailing list > gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org > http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Acceptance of OpenOffice.org (was Re: Gov't , economics and technology (was Re: METROCAST BLOCKS RESIDENTIAL E-MAIL))
Having recently finished with school myself, I can tell you first hand that many computer courses are focused around usage of certain applications rather than a more general understanding of concepts. I agree completely that many teachers are used to their Microsoft products and don't know anything else. In my mind, the solution is to get school systems to try products like Open Office concurrently with their standard Microsoft packages. In this way, teachers could have time to get familiar with open office and still have MS stuff to fall back on. Besides, anyone who knows MS Office should REALLY be able to figure out OOo. -chris Jerry Feldman wrote: On Monday 13 March 2006 11:28 am, Randy Edwards wrote: > So I'm thinking that maybe successful acceptance of OpenOffice.org > requires us getting it into the school systems. I agree completely. And a complicating factor is that many computer "teachers" aren't really teaching computer sci or generic computing concepts, but instead they're teaching Windows and MS apps. I've seen far, far too many teachers which, when confronted with a Mac or any app other than the standard one they use, will be absolutely lost. The resistance I've found is not at the school board level. Boards will query whether OOo or free software is popular enough in the "business world" to teach to kids (a semi-legit question), but the dollars and cents angle swings the board every time. The actual resistance I've seen will come from the local computer teachers. Add to that the "if it doesn't cost anything it can't be worth anything" assumption (heavily ingrained in the educational bureaucracy) and converting public schools is difficult. The school systems are not teaching computer science, they are teaching computer usage. There are a few issues where we might be able to make some progress, at least with OO.o. first, Microsoft Office licenses are expensive even for public schools that get lower prices. One could use the cost issue. But the business issue is very important because many businesses may require "MS Word, MW Exel" experience. The other problem is the teachers. In recent years, fortunately, many of our professional colleagues have changed their professions and are now teaching. But, historically, teachers are not the most knowledgeable people when it comes to computers. This will change in time. In any case, the focus of many of these schools is not so much training as is giving the students experience that they can document on a resume. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Acceptance of OpenOffice.org (was Re: Gov't , economics and technology (was Re: METROCAST BLOCKS RESIDENTIAL E-MAIL))
When I was in college for my CAD course I had to use:Calma - VMSIDEAS - VMCAutoCAD - PCVersaCAD - PCCADkey - PCCADC - Zenith Z100Late 80s when there were multiple choices. Now I'd imagine seeing AutoCAD, Cadence, Mentor Graphics, Pro/E, (are those just EDA?) It was an interesting introduction. I think it would be very useful for students to see at least 3 or the following MS-Office 97, Office 2003, Corel, OpenOffice, Apple iWork(?) and maybe a works type suite. A programming ciriculum would generally have more then 1 language.Heck, in high school I took typing. We learned on electric and manual typewriters. Slightly different techniques. In that era some typewriters were adding print wheels, correction, memories, mailing lists, forms.
Re: Intel NICs, Cisco, autoneg, and borken-ness
"Michael ODonnell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: >> 2 weeks ago, I'm certain I had this interface configured *and* >> working just fine. > > Nevertheless, if it were me I'd connect the cable in question > to some other known working system as a basic sanity test... I had tried this, and the cable tested out fine. But taking this thought a step further, I connected this cable to a known-working system on this network, then began shuffling ports around on the patchpanel and the switch. BINGO! Bad wiring between the patch panel and the switch! Thanks mod! :) -- Seeya, Paul ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Intel NICs, Cisco, autoneg, and borken-ness
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > Can you try more then just ping? Try tracerouting to another network > to see where the traffic stops, or where it tries to go. If ping doesn't work, neither will traceroute, since the latter is built using TTL tricks of the former. Since I can't even ping the gateway of the subnet I'm *on*, trying to get *off* net isn't going to work either. > Try using lynx to open a web page. To what? I can't even get off the network I'm on? > Sometimes someone does something dumb on a router like disallowing > ICMP, or, in Cisco's case, tuning on "ICMP-Helper", which I have > seen to have the same effect as blocking ICMP (not very > helpful...). We checked the router/switch config several times. It was configured correctly (i.e. ICMP-helper and the like were not configured). > Also, check the cable. You can have link light with but a single > wire in a pair :-) This turned out to be closer the to problem. Bad wiring in the patch panel between the switch and router. Changing to a different port worked just fine. Thanks. -- Seeya, Paul ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Intel NICs, Cisco, autoneg, and borken-ness
On Monday 13 March 2006 12:59 pm, Paul Lussier wrote: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > Can you try more then just ping? Try tracerouting to another network > > to see where the traffic stops, or where it tries to go. > > If ping doesn't work, neither will traceroute, since the latter is > built using TTL tricks of the former. Since I can't even ping the > gateway of the subnet I'm *on*, trying to get *off* net isn't going to > work either. For what it's worth the default traceroute on Unix-ish systems uses UDP, not ICMP. traceroute -I (capital "eye") would use ICMP. Glad to hear you found your problem anyway. -N ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Intel NICs, Cisco, autoneg, and borken-ness
-- Original message -- From: Paul Lussier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > > Can you try more then just ping? Try tracerouting to another network > > to see where the traffic stops, or where it tries to go. > > If ping doesn't work, neither will traceroute, since the latter is > built using TTL tricks of the former. Since I can't even ping the > gateway of the subnet I'm *on*, trying to get *off* net isn't going to > work either. I know that traceroute will fail, but it would at least tell you if the traffic was leaving your box. I see a lot of cases where people tell me "The server is down, I can't even ping it" when the server that they are pinging is fine. It is usually a bad route on their system, or on the server (sending the responses to the wrong place). I also see people sending traffic out the wrong interface (which ping would tell you). > > Try using lynx to open a web page. > > To what? I can't even get off the network I'm on? You can't ping. If something was stopping ICMP, then http is always a decent fall back. > > Sometimes someone does something dumb on a router like disallowing > > ICMP, or, in Cisco's case, tuning on "ICMP-Helper", which I have > > seen to have the same effect as blocking ICMP (not very > > helpful...). > > We checked the router/switch config several times. It was configured > correctly (i.e. ICMP-helper and the like were not configured). > > > Also, check the cable. You can have link light with but a single > > wire in a pair :-) > > This turned out to be closer the to problem. Bad wiring in the patch > panel between the switch and router. Changing to a different port > worked just fine. Glad to hear it. If you need anymore useless ideas, let us know :-) C-Ya, Kenny ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Intel NICs, Cisco, autoneg, and borken-ness
> UDP packets also have TTL settings. The response from the > particular router that hits that TTL is still ICMP (time-exceeded), > but the outgoing traffic is UDP. > > man traceroute You're right - I should have RTFM before posting... ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: OT: Forum legalish question
On Mar 12, 2006, at 15:27, Ben Scott wrote: Law-breaking is a poor first choice for effecting change. There are other methods which work much better. Law-breaking should always be the *last* choice. The fact that it is sometimes the *only* choice does not change that. The old saying goes - "there are four types of boxes used to effect change in government - soap, ballot, jury, and ammo - in that order." -Bill - Bill McGonigle, Owner Work: 603.448.4440 BFC Computing, LLC Home: 603.448.1668 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cell: 603.252.2606 http://www.bfccomputing.com/Page: 603.442.1833 Blog: http://blog.bfccomputing.com/ VCard: http://bfccomputing.com/vcard/bill.vcf ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
FW: [NH Jobs List] Job: RFP for email/message board web portal
>From a mailing list I belong to... > Today we get a bonus item as this is more of an opportunity for a > small NH business to grab then hire a crew of workers to build and > support it than just a single job. > > I received the following RFP from a company in MA that has asked for > my help identifying resources to get a web portal built. After a > little investigation, I learned that all the work (except for actually > installing it and flipping the switch) can be done remotely. > > Refer to the RFP and make your best pitch using the 2nd link below no > later than this Thursday 3/16. Be sure to include: > First name > Last name > Company name > Email address > Phone number > Web site URL > Your pitch in 500 words or less > > All entries that provide the details above will receive an > acknowledgement and will be turned over to the decision maker on > Friday 3/17. > > RFP document: > http://www.gnseg.org/RFP_Key_Req.doc > > Make your best pitch here: > http://www.nhjobslist.com/qotw.htm > > > > > TO UNSUBSCRIBE: send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > TO POST: address your message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > TO HAVE FRIENDS JOIN: tell them to visit http://www.nhjobslist.com/ > THE ARCHIVES: http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/nhjobslist/messages > Yahoo! Groups Links > > <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nhjobslist/ > > <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Acceptance of OpenOffice.org (was Re: Gov't , economics and technology (was Re: METROCAST BLOCKS RESIDENTIAL E-MAIL))
Jerry Feldman wrote: There is a lot to be said for training elementary, middle and high school kids to use some of the many tools that they have available, and I'm not adverse to training them on how to use MS Office. But, when they call a class "computer science" they should teach computer science, not how to use a tool. I was talking to someone (a middle-school teacher) at a party over the holidays who mentioned his school's "computer science" class. I was curious what programming languages they taught. He assured me that they didn't allow hacking at all. After a short discussion, I discovered he apparently did not know that computer software was written by people using programming languages. (I didn't try to find out where he thought it came from.) So, their "computer science" class doesn't teach, nor allow, programming at all. I just went to get another drink; it wasn't worth the effort to explain otherwise. -- Dan Jenkins ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) Rastech Inc., Bedford, NH, USA --- 1-603-206-9951 *** Technical Support for over a Quarter Century ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Intel NICs, Cisco, autoneg, and borken-ness
> For what it's worth the default traceroute on Unix-ish systems > uses UDP, not ICMP. traceroute -I (capital "eye") would use ICMP. Que? How does that work? I only know about that bump-the-TTL-after- every-hop trick. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Acceptance of OpenOffice.org (was Re: Gov't , economics and technology (was Re: METROCAST BLOCKS RESIDENTIAL E-MAIL))
Tom Buskey wrote: When I was in college for my CAD course I had to use: Calma - VMS IDEAS - VMC AutoCAD - PC VersaCAD - PC CADkey - PC CADC - Zenith Z100 Late 80s when there were multiple choices. Now I'd imagine seeing AutoCAD, Cadence, Mentor Graphics, Pro/E, (are those just EDA?) A client of ours recently had a couple of interns. One of them had only used AutoCAD and some exposure to what appeared to be a school-developed system. The other had experienced some more, because he had sought out more on his own. Apparently, training was provided on only a single CAD environment in both their schools. It was an interesting introduction. I think it would be very useful for students to see at least 3 or the following MS-Office 97, Office 2003, Corel, OpenOffice, Apple iWork(?) and maybe a works type suite. A programming ciriculum would generally have more then 1 language. Everything should be taught with multiple perspectives. The broader a base to draw on, the more universal the insights to be gained. Basic principles can be learned if you have more than a single data point to learn from. A single data point just doesn't provide enough information. My experience with most schools now is that training (I hesitate to call it education) is provided in a single version of a single program doing specific tasks. -- Dan Jenkins ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) Rastech Inc., Bedford, NH, USA --- 1-603-206-9951 *** Technical Support for over a Quarter Century ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Acceptance of OpenOffice.org (was Re: Gov't , economics and technology (was Re: METROCAST BLOCKS RESIDENTIAL E-MAIL))
Christopher Schmidt wrote: As a counter to this: At the high school level, typically "computer science" is a prep course for the Computer Science A or AB test. (Apologies ahead of time for anyone I may have made to feel old due to the years listed in this post.) Thanks, sonny, for the information. I got to go punch some paper tapes... ...as soon as I remember where I left my walker. :-) Actually, that is good to hear. Some positive news on the education front is always welcome. -- Dan Jenkins ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) Rastech Inc., Bedford, NH, USA --- 1-603-206-9951 *** Technical Support for over a Quarter Century ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Intel NICs, Cisco, autoneg, and borken-ness
On Monday 13 March 2006 01:30 pm, Michael ODonnell wrote: > > For what it's worth the default traceroute on Unix-ish systems > > uses UDP, not ICMP. traceroute -I (capital "eye") would use ICMP. > > Que? How does that work? I only know about that bump-the-TTL-after- > every-hop trick. UDP packets also have TTL settings. The response from the particular router that hits that TTL is still ICMP (time-exceeded), but the outgoing traffic is UDP. man traceroute -N ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Acceptance of OpenOffice.org (was Re: Gov't , economics and technology (was Re: METROCAST BLOCKS RESIDENTIAL E-MAIL))
On Mon, Mar 13, 2006 at 02:47:59PM -0500, Dan Jenkins wrote: > I was talking to someone (a middle-school teacher) at a party over the > holidays who mentioned his school's "computer science" class. I was > curious what programming languages they taught. He assured me that they > didn't allow hacking at all. After a short discussion, I discovered he > apparently did not know that computer software was written by people > using programming languages. (I didn't try to find out where he thought > it came from.) So, their "computer science" class doesn't teach, nor > allow, programming at all. I just went to get another drink; it wasn't > worth the effort to explain otherwise. As a counter to this: At the high school level, typically "computer science" is a prep course for the Computer Science A or AB test. When I took it (about 6 years ago), this was in C++ -- It's been changed now to be Java, after I finished the program in 2001, but the AP test itself is focused around concepts: Computer Science A [1] Computer Science A emphasizes object-oriented programming methodology with an emphasis on problem solving and algorithm development and is meant to be the equivalent of a first-semester course in computer science. It also includes the study of data structures and abstraction, but these topics are not covered to the extent that they are covered in Computer Science AB. Computer Science AB [2] Computer Science AB includes all the topics of Computer Science A, as well as a more formal and a more in-depth study of algorithms, data structures, and data abstraction. For example, binary trees are studied in Computer Science AB but not in Computer Science A. The use of recursive data structures and dynamically allocated structures is fundamental to Computer Science AB. Up until about 3 years before I took the class (98-99) all the AP materials and course materials were in Pascal. So, although most classes labelled "computer science" (*especially* before High School) may not be actually teaching said topic in the primary and secondary schools, there is definitely some teaching of these concepts. However, of the 20-30 kids in my class, I was the only one to actually take the AP test. (I scored a 5, the highest possible, primarily due to out of class learning.) Not a perfect world, by any means, but if you have the interest, and want to put forth the effort, you typically can get to a point where you have the knowledge neccesary to demonstrate some computer science knowledge at the high school level. This is true in any subject: primary and secondary education caters for the most part ot the bare minimum, but there are resources to go farther than that if you wish, and have the determination to do so. [1] http://www.collegeboard.com/student/testing/ap/sub_compscia.html?compscia [2] http://www.collegeboard.com/student/testing/ap/sub_compsciab.html?compscia (Apologies ahead of time for anyone I may have made to feel old due to the years listed in this post.) -- Christopher Schmidt Web Developer ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Acceptance of OpenOffice.org (was Re: Gov't , economics and technology (was Re: METROCAST BLOCKS RESIDENTIAL E-MAIL))
On Mon, Mar 13, 2006 at 03:09:33PM -0500, Jerry Feldman wrote: > About 10 years ago, home computers were pretty much beyond the reach of most > public school teachers. It has only been since then that many have been > able to afford them. Additionally, it is difficult for school systems to > keep their equipment maintainable and reasonably up-to-date. Further to my previous email about computer science courses: The C++ machines we were working with were running Windows 3.1. Of course, we never logged into that OS: all of our work was done in Borland's Turbo C++ DOS IDE. The class did involve writing a scary amount of graphics code using Borland libraries of some kind that I was never able to reproduce outside that environment. The computers were supposedly bought originally in 1988 or something similar. The rest of the school was using Windows 98 (which later transitioned to Windows 2000 in the library), but they didn't have the ability (or didn't want to, with Java coming around the corner) to transition to new machines for the C++ development. This is probably related in part to the fact that the teacher of the course had been doing it for more than a dozen years, and didn't want to have the thing he knew (the machines) change, when he'd already changed languages on them. So, although most of the computer related classes - Desktop Publishing, Word Processing, etc. - were taught on relatively modern machines running a recent windows version, the Computer Science courses were taught on the oldest computers in the school (for student use anyway). -- Christopher Schmidt Web Developer ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Acceptance of OpenOffice.org (was Re: Gov't , economics and technology (was Re: METROCAST BLOCKS RESIDENTIAL E-MAIL))
On Monday 13 March 2006 2:47 pm, Dan Jenkins wrote: > I was talking to someone (a middle-school teacher) at a party over the > holidays who mentioned his school's "computer science" class. I was > curious what programming languages they taught. He assured me that they > didn't allow hacking at all. After a short discussion, I discovered he > apparently did not know that computer software was written by people > using programming languages. Computer Software is not written by people. It is written by those of us who have achieved a state of deity. > (I didn't try to find out where he thought > it came from.) So, their "computer science" class doesn't teach, nor > allow, programming at all. I just went to get another drink; it wasn't > worth the effort to explain otherwise. You were probably correct to get another drink, but that guy is probably typical of those who teach about computers in our public schools. About 10 years ago, home computers were pretty much beyond the reach of most public school teachers. It has only been since then that many have been able to afford them. Additionally, it is difficult for school systems to keep their equipment maintainable and reasonably up-to-date. -- Jerry Feldman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Boston Linux and Unix user group http://www.blu.org PGP key id:C5061EA9 PGP Key fingerprint:053C 73EC 3AC1 5C44 3E14 9245 FB00 3ED5 C506 1EA9 ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Acceptance of OpenOffice.org (was Re: Gov't , economics and technology (was Re: METROCAST BLOCKS RESIDENTIAL E-MAIL))
> Having recently finished with school myself, I can tell you first hand > that many computer courses are focused around usage of certain > applications rather than a more general understanding of concepts. Just for the record, when I said "computer science" this is exactly what I was referring to. Far too often I've seen classes that are devolved to the point to where they are little more than memorization exercises for MS Office. That isn't education it's "training," and it's a sure-fire way to ensure that people's knowledge is thoroughly outdated when software/technology changes. Regards, . Randy -- "In 2001, the top 20 percent of households for the first time raked in more than half of all income, while the share earned by those in the middle was the lowest in nearly 50 years." -- Griff Witte, Washington Post, September 19, 2004. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Acceptance of OpenOffice.org (was Re: Gov't , economics and technology (was Re: METROCAST BLOCKS RESIDENTIAL E-MAIL))
On Monday 13 March 2006 1:37 pm, Randy Edwards wrote: > Just for the record, when I said "computer science" this is exactly > what I was referring to. Far too often I've seen classes that are > devolved to the point to where they are little more than memorization > exercises for MS Office. That isn't education it's "training," and it's > a sure-fire way to ensure that people's knowledge is thoroughly outdated > when > software/technology changes. I agree. There is a lot to be said for training elementary, middle and high school kids to use some of the many tools that they have available, and I'm not adverse to training them on how to use MS Office. But, when they call a class "computer science" they should teach computer science, not how to use a tool. -- Jerry Feldman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Boston Linux and Unix user group http://www.blu.org PGP key id:C5061EA9 PGP Key fingerprint:053C 73EC 3AC1 5C44 3E14 9245 FB00 3ED5 C506 1EA9 ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Anyone locally installing Asterisk based PBX systems?
I have a client who got a proposal for a PBX system and I suspect it might be more costly then necessary. They need something like 20+ phones in their new facility and I would like to have them have a counter bid. Is there a local company doing this kind of work? -Alex ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Anyone locally installing Asterisk based PBX systems?
The only Asterisk service provider listed on voip-info in the area is Odoon Systems in Boston: http://www.odoon.com/ There are a couple of consultant shops in NH (http://www.voip-info.org/wiki/index.php?page=Asterisk+consultants+USA#NEWHAMPSHIRE): Advent Consulting Open Source VOIP/PBX/Telephony Solutions for Small & Mid-size Company http://www.adventconsultants.com Tel - 617-444-8770 E-Mail - [EMAIL PROTECTED] We are a Solutions Integrator specialized in Open Source VOIP, IP-PBX, Software and Linux technologies. Our open source VOIP engineers have extensive experiences with Asterisk and SIP/IP PBX technologies, Enterprise-wide VOIP Design, VOIP Deployment, Call Centers, CTI, IVR, Contact Center Management and Custom developed solution to meet your unique requirements. Our services cover the states of MA, NH, VT and RI Seawall, Inc. Asterisk Solutions for Business Web site: http://www.seawall.com/ Phone: 603 659 7621 E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Business Solutions, Systems Integration, Design, Installation and Support Security Specialists, Storage and Recovery Solutions, Purpose Built Systems, Wiring Polycom, Digium, Cisco, 3Com, Zyxel, HP, Linksys, Intel, (more) Certified / Authorized / Partner We provide sales and services to customers in NH, ME, VT, MA And a few more in Mass (http://www.voip-info.org/wiki/index.php?page=Asterisk+consultants+USA#MASSACHUSETTS): Advent Consulting Open Source VOIP/PBX/Telephony Solutions for Small & Mid-size Company http://www.adventconsultants.com Tel - 617-444-8770 E-Mail - [EMAIL PROTECTED] We are a Solutions Integrator specialized in Open Source VOIP, IP-PBX, Software and Linux technologies. Our open source VOIP engineers have extensive experiences with Asterisk and SIP/IP PBX technologies, Enterprise-wide VOIP Design, VOIP Deployment, Call Centers, CTI, IVR, Contact Center Management and Custom developed solution to meet your unique requirements. Our services cover the states of MA, NH, VT and RI The Amaral Group (TAG) Specialists in Networks, Systems, Databases and Voice/Data Integration Services. http://www.amaral.com/ Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Phone: 978-929-9009 Toll-Free: 1-800-541-7332 TAG specializes in providing design and implementation services to clients in networking, database, messaging, IT Security, wireless phones/networking, voice and Internet technologies thoughout New England and the Mid-Atlantic regions. The Jackson Group Asterisk Telephony Solutions for Business http://www.jacksongrp.com Tel - 617-933-9628 E-Mail - [EMAIL PROTECTED] 24 Peterborough St, Suite 9, Boston, MA 02215 JG Consulting Boston, MA Asterisk Integration, Installation, Configuration, Support Specializing in Small-Medium Office Solutions that meet your needs AND budget e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Odoon Systems Corp. www.odoon.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] 617-402-2020 202 Polycom resellser Unique approach that combines IP CENTREX like services with free on premise equipment for realtime QoS and system managment. Odoon's solutions and designs insure the highest possible quality of service combined with minimal capital expense Enterprise installations PBXcellence PBX and service provider consulting and products http://www.pbxcellence.com Tel - 617-733-2750 E-Mail - [EMAIL PROTECTED] 402A Highland Ave, Somerville, MA 02144 HTH, Kenny -- Original message -- From: "hewitt_tech" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > I have a client who got a proposal for a PBX system and I suspect it might > be more costly then necessary. They need something like 20+ phones in their > new facility and I would like to have them have a counter bid. Is there a > local company doing this kind of work? > > -Alex > > ___ > gnhlug-discuss mailing list > gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org > http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: METROCAST BLOCKS RESIDENTIAL E-MAIL
From: "Brian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: METROCAST BLOCKS RESIDENTIAL E-MAIL Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 16:20:40 -0500 I think there is a reason the OP put OUTBOUND in all caps. This isn't about running your own SMTP server at home, it's about using a non-Metrocast SMTP server to SEND mail to others. Exactly. *My* MTA doesn't allow connections from non-local hosts. But in certainly expects email to be available on port 25 on the Internet And, since RFC 822 was one of the earliest Internet standards, people have kinda grown to depend on it... If someone I correspond with wants to MX all their incoming mail through their ISP's mail server, that's their choice and their right. But I shouldn't be forced, by *my* ISP, to add an extra server hop to *every* email message I send. In the last 10 years I've been actively using an internet connection, I've *never* used my ISP's mail servers. I've always had my own domain(s) hosted somewhere, and sent emails through my own servers. Given what Metroca$t has done, your setup would not work from my location. You'd have to configure your MX on a non-standard port, because the traffic between my feed and the MX (even if you own it!) would be squelched by my I$P. Sending an email through your own/alternate server should not be prevented. I have to say Amen! to that... But I have to take it one step further: Sending an email through your own/alternate server should not be prevented, *just because your ISP does not consider you a business*. Implicit in their restriction of outbound traffic is the insinuation that residential customers do not deserve real, uncensored, access to the Internet. Since the filtering of port 25 does not exist on so-called "business" accounts, this policy further implies that only businesses are entitled to unrestricted *Internet* access. From: Christopher Schmidt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org Subject: Re: METROCAST BLOCKS RESIDENTIAL E-MAIL Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 16:21:24 -0500 said most. And I stand by that statement: The number of zombie windows boxes on any given network is likely higher than the number of persons working from home on the network. Minority does not imply unimportance. I'm probably the only person in the state of New Hampshire who can speak the language Lojban. That doesn't mean I shouldn't be allowed to speak it. http://www.lojban.org From: Python <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2006 16:29:37 -0500 That's really just an excuse for not knowing the customers and their needs. Port blocking, inbound and outbound can be a legitimate part of the service. Inbound blocking provides a firewall. Outbound blocking In fact, email is *such* an integral part of the Internet, I have to ask if, by filtering 25out, they are breaking their obligation to provide something called "Internet access". protects the "neighborhood" from incompetence. However, the Right. But that's not my incompetence, and they're blocking *me*. If they blocked 25out per-IP, I'd be fine with that. If I erroneously got filtered, I could call and have the block removed. But assuming that all your customers are incompetent is arrogant and prejudicial, not to mention rude. unwillingness to customize and tailor the service to fit customer needs is mostly laziness and the expectation that they can get away with it. It's that latter part... "the expectation that they can get away with it" that I intend to prove wrong. And I believe together, we can make them realize their mistake (and correct it). ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: METROCAST BLOCKS RESIDENTIAL E-MAIL
From: "Ben Scott" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 17:27:05 -0500 > Metrocast, last week, started filtering packets sent by their > customers to port 25 on ALL Internet hosts. Yup. More and more ISPs are doing this -- generally the larger ones. Get used to it. It's not going to go away, because the problem is ultimately stupid people, and that problem is never going to be fixed. The problem is ultimately stupid people. I agree. But, with proper management, the actions of stupid people can cease to be problematic. There are plenty of technologies available which -- singlehandedly -- could eliminate the spam problem. This is a case of *mismanaging* stupid people. > Despite Mr. Bradley's assurances that this is an effort to reduce spam > and protect me (yeah right) ... It is very much an anti-spam measure. As others have pointed out, the *vast majority* of mail sent from consumer Internet feeds to a destination of TCP port 25 is spam, sent by compromised computers run by home users who install every piece of software "the Interweb tells them to". Most email *is* spam, period. Blocking all email would be guaranteed to block all spam, too. But it's definitely a wrong-headed approach. It's like chopping off everyone's thumbs in order to keep terrorists from building bombs. > I'm sure Verizon would be happy to help our group switch over to DSL. Verizon has variously employed outbound TCP 25 blocking and/or SMTP authentication for relay as well. I have been working on some economic models which suggest that Verizon (or any telco provider) would be eager to see Metroca$t (cable INET) suffer. > (A) If censoring e-mail constitutes curtailment of free speech. law...". It doesn't say one damn thing about me or you. A telco is under no obligation to provide you a particular kind of technical service. A telco cannot, by law, prohibit me from calling the (615) area code. They cannot legally install hardware to listen for and silence me every time I want to say "fuck" during the course of a telephone conversation. Tin-foil hat people, please note that they can monitor/log/whatever your email using a packet sniffer just as easily as using an SMTP host, so that argument is bogus. This is simply not true. It is much easier to snoop email handled at the application layer than at the transport layer. This is especially true when *my* MTA connects to an MX that supports TLS. Metrocas$t's SMTP server advertises TLS capability, but it's broken. (One more reason why I wouldn't call their relay a "smarthost".) So doing this forces me to send *all* email unencrypted over its *entire* route (MUA -> "smart"host -> MX). > (B) If unilaterally making the change to restrict e-mail > constitutes violation of contract law. Read your ToS. It basically says they can do anything they want, and they're not obligated to provide any Class of Service. If you Well, first of all, I never received or agreed to any ToS. But, just as sure as I'm sitting here typing, Metroca$t *agreed* to provide "Internet service". What I'm questioning is whether or not the legal definition of Internet service includes email. From: Ed Lawson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2006 16:18:13 -0500 using their SMTP server? They have always indicated web, FTP, and mail servers are not allowed on residential service plans. I could be wrong, but I bet it was in the terms of service when you signed up. If so, you really have no basis to complain they finally did something to enforce the agreement. I don't think Metroca$t's lawyers would know a server from the holes in their asses. Most modern computer systems *are* collections of servers. If I was truly forbidden from running any servers on my Metrocrap-connected hosts, I'd have to log out right now because I'm running an X server (using X windows). My computer would also be depressingly silent, because I wouldn't be allowed to run my sound server either. I wouldn't be able to print anything, because I couldn't run cups. I wouldn't be able to ssh between boxes, because that would mean running sshd. And, without an MTA, I wouldn't have any local mail. I wouldn't be able to connect my Linksys router up to the connection, either, because they have a web-based management interface (which is, technically, an HTTP server). Allowing a customer to use an Internet connection and forbidding the use of "servers" is like allowing them to use a computer, while forbidding the use of "devices". It's a technically meaningless assertion... From: "Ben Scott" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 17:33:44 -0500 Of course, cable companies *are not* a free market, since they've been granted a monopoly by the local government in the local area. I suggest that the solution *there* is to fix the root cause (granting overly b
Re: METROCAST BLOCKS RESIDENTIAL E-MAIL
From: Neil Joseph Schelly <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 17:02:13 -0500 > Metrocast is filtering ALL port 25 packets OUTBOUND from their > residential customers. While I understand your frustration, what they are doing is a pretty valid way to reduce spam. If you're running your own mail server somewhere you want to That's just it. It's NOT a valid way to reduce spam. Just like killing junkies is not a valid way to fight AIDS... use, then you can run a mail server on an alternate port. Lots don't block 465 (ssmtp) or 587 (alternate smtp). In my case, since I can never remember Clever. I'll have to look into that. And then tell all the spamsters. :) You could also configure your local machine to smarthost all email through your ISP's mail server. The only problem here is with SPF. If you control "The only problem" is that I have reason to believe my ISP isn't all that "smart". it is recognized as a "valid" sender of email from your domain. If you don't control the domain, perhaps your company can build a VPN setup. There certainly would be no problem with using the VPN to access your mail server, bypassing your ISP's firewall. I have been thinking about tunneling IPv6 over IPv4 to some POP on the (unfirewalled) Internet. I figure an IPv6 provider is unlikely to be as braindead as Metroca$t. Think this'll work? From: "Ben Scott" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org Subject: Re: METROCAST BLOCKS RESIDENTIAL E-MAIL Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 17:52:53 -0500 On 3/7/06, Neil Joseph Schelly <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > This isn't something to get so bent out of shape for really. Sure it is. Didn't you know that Internet access is a Constitutional Right? ;-) Well, Internet access isn't a constitutional right. But privacy and the right to cooperate are. The Internet *is* a big cooperative. And not playing by the rules (not adhering to INET standards) hurts not only local users, but the Network as a community. The Internet stands on three legs: (1) Hardware, (2) Protocols, and (3) Cooperation Without any one of these three, the Internet will crumble or, at the very least, weaken. Violation of protocols and refusing to cooperate are what Metroca$t is doing. From: "Ben Scott" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 18:04:11 -0500 Like everything else in business, this boils down to return on investment. ROI. Yes, at the expense of integrity and social responsibility. From: Fred <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 06:39:59 -0500 Today, nearly everyone who wants Net access has it. Kinda like the TV. And if you don't have it at home, you can always get it at your local Library. Those that don't have it are either technophobes or illiterate or simply don't see the value. Not true. Some of us are poor. If you are such a lazy bum as to be too pathetic to drag yourself out of bed and down to the Library, that does not count as a "restriction". What public libraries provide usually does not qualify as "Internet access" any more than webmail qualifies as "email". Most libraries will only permit you access to a web browser (IE, at that), forbid you from using external media (like floppy disks, CD-ROMs, USB MSD), and limit you to some stupid time limit like 60 minutes per day. Not to mention the fact that you can't get the full experience of Internet porn in a public place ;) Library Internet is to Internet access like Taco Bell is to Mexican food. It just doesn't really qualify. :) ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: METROCAST BLOCKS RESIDENTIAL E-MAIL
From: Jeff Kinz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 15:34:56 -0500 If they are filtering for Spam on outbound packets whose dport is 25 then I think its probably a good thing. No? Content filtering is supposed to be done at the application level. Content filtering at the network level is just... data corruption. From: Fred <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 06:17:10 -0500 I think it's a *bad idea* to send your email out across your ISP's SMTP servers, because you never know what they are doing with it. Plus, with the Homeland Insecurity pushing for more surveillance of us civilians, including pushing ISPs to archive all outgoing traffic for a month, you just can't trust your ISP to protect your privacy. Yes, there are privacy issues which contraindicate using McISP's mail relay... * Nosy sysadmins reading your email. * Sysadmins who are actually doing their job reading your email. (I don't care if you're clearing the mail queue or not; you *don't* have to know what my girlfriend thinks about my ED.) * Systematic email monitoring/scanning/blocking/archiving/reporting. * TOSs often explicitly allow for disclosure *without* a warrant. * Malicious employees can steal information (I've seen this one firsthand). * Malicious employees can alter/destroy information. * ISPs don't necessarily take all the security precautions you would. But, besides privacy, there are MANY MANY other reasons an email user might not want to use their ISP's smarthost: * Your ISP may not relay "MAIL FROM:" addresses not from their domain. * An ISP's smarthost doesn't necessarily have the VRFY/ident/retry/routing options which you want to use. * Email aliases, mailing lists, and address rewriting are out the window. * ISPs often don't bother to SSL mail outbound to the 'Net. (It would be interesting to see if Metrocrap is even trying to do this...) * ISPs have been know to have *almost* correct smarthost configurations. * ISPs have been know to have *completely broken* smarthost configurations. * Smarthosts have been known to lose mail. * Your outbound mail may be erroneously be considered spam/virus/&c and rm'd. * You have no control over how your ISP's smarthost resolves MXs. * Configuring your own MTA can teach you a lot about how email works. * Not using your ISP's mail relay keeps you *in touch with* the current state of SMTP on the Internet... and not hide the Internet from you behind a relay. * Because RFC 822 doesn't say you have to. * You simply don't want to. * And on, and on... and on and on . . . ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Intel NICs, Cisco, autoneg, and borken-ness
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > -- Original message -- From: Paul > Lussier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: >> >> > Can you try more then just ping? Try tracerouting to another >> > network to see where the traffic stops, or where it tries to go. >> If ping doesn't work, neither will traceroute, since the latter is >> built using TTL tricks of the former. Since I can't even ping the >> gateway of the subnet I'm *on*, trying to get *off* net isn't going >> to work either. > > I know that traceroute will fail, but it would at least tell you if > the traffic was leaving your box. I see a lot of cases where people > tell me "The server is down, I can't even ping it" when the server > that they are pinging is fine. It is usually a bad route on their > system, or on the server (sending the responses to the wrong place). > I also see people sending traffic out the wrong interface (which ping > would tell you). Ahh, I see where you're coming from. I was testing this system from the actual console of the system. I had 6 other systems on this "subnet", all of which could ping each other fine. This one system was the anomaly, which meant it was going to be something particular to this system, not something they all had in common, i.e. the router. All systems were connected to the same blade of the switch as well. Of course, I've certainly seen individual ports mis-configured, but again, that would still have been something more or less specific to that host. I was really betting on an autoneg incompatibility :) >> > Try using lynx to open a web page. >> To what? I can't even get off the network I'm on? > > You can't ping. If something was stopping ICMP, then http is always a > decent fall back. Agreed, but only if I have something to connect to. Since the switch couldn't even ping the server IP I was having problems with, this wouldn't have worked either... >> > Sometimes someone does something dumb Oh sure! Now you're insulting me? Are you saying I'm dumb?! Well fine! Just let the entire world know why don't you! 8-P ;) > Glad to hear it. If you need anymore useless ideas, let us know :-) No Problem. This list is the first place I turn when I need one or more of those ;) -- Seeya, Paul ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
