Re: What's a developer to do?
Well, LSB is Linux-only. No. BSD and Solaris systems can also pass the LSB. OS X could pass it if they wanted to. LSB simply defines a binary interface for applications to run.and it does it on a architecture basis. Starpacks will run on Linux, OS-X, Windows, ... - and *with the same binary*! U, I think you mean that the *envelope file* Starpacks creates will deliver the binaries needed for all these platforms, if you have the binaries, by utilizing the TCL interpreter. Correct? You still have to have the binaries of the application itself for a particular OS and architecture, and in the case of Linux, it would be nice if that application followed the LSB, and if the platforms you were delivering it for were LSB compliant. Of course I do not see where Starkits does any of the testing for prerequisites and dependencies that RPM or APT does. md ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
The tube
Randy, Your analysis is quite good, but does not go far enough. The problem is that by giving the tube away, you have to assume that it still is going to be used, and that the oil is going to be pumped. On the other hand if he just throws it away, it will end up in a land-fill, polluting the environment. Perhaps he should cart it to one of the companies doing the green program, in which case he has to think about the gas used in his car and the potential for hurting his back. I think the best thing he can do is keep the 19 inch monitor turned off in his basement and give a new LCD display to the person that he was going to give the monitor, preferably by just ordering it off the web and having it delivered directly to them. md P.S. and all of this was said in jest, of course. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: convertor ..
Mike, Does anyone know of a good convertor to change .wav files to .mp3? I'm building a music list and am having to pull down the music off CD(s) as .wav .. and it is happily starting to eat loads of space. I use grip, which pulls the .wav file off the CD, then converts it to either .mp3 or Ogg Vorbis. Some distributions do not ship the mp3 converter because of the software patents and royalties associated with it. Grip also does an auto lookup of the track names and artists from your selection of freedb or some other database, and uses that information as the file names. The .wav file is erased after it is converted to the final format, and the two operations (ripping and conversion) are done in parallel as much as possible. md ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Oh NO!, It is Hoss Traders again!
I have been traveling constantly with few accesses to the Internet so I have not had time to evaluate all the people who answered back about Hoss Traders. I will be getting into the airport in Boston in late afternoon today (Thursday), and will probably get to Hoss Traders about noon on Friday, staying until close on Saturday. I suggest that unless you really want to go up there early that you also shoot for noon on Friday and look for me in the usual building. For those of you new to Hoss Traders, it is hard to describe where we are other than the usual building. I can give you the hint that you come in through the main gate onto the fairgrounds (not at the parking lot, but a little further down the road where the wire gate and all the Shriners are), then travel to the first junk food stand on the left. Our building is across the road from that junk food stand, and we are usually on the right hand side of the building toward the front. Or you can ask at the information stand where The Linux Guys are. See y'all tomorrow. md ___ gnhlug-announce mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-announce ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: What Excites You?
Paul, WE ALL ARE QUITE EXCITED about next months presentation where you then show us RH9.0 and explain all the improvements based on our gripes of RH8.0, which I'm sure you'll take note of on Wednesday night ;) Oh great, now I know what really excites you about Linux.massive .0 releases of incompatible software..then having the right to complain about it. :-) md ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
What Excites You?
Hi, I am writing a talk on What Excites Me about Linux. The object of this talk is to not only talk about the philosophical things that excites me, but honest to goodness neat programs. For example, gnomemeeting excites *ME* since it will allow me to videoconference with people while I am on the road. I know that some people like The Gimp, and I know that Paul Lussier likes GNUcash, but what other Open Source programs do you think are either stellar, close to stellar, or rapidly approaching stellar? This includes neat hardware (TV tuners, radio tuners, etc.) that work with Linux. Thanks, md ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Fwd: Red Hat Linux 9 -- Get it Early
Ordinarily yes, but I heard from a reliable source that this is a Sun-like marketing move. In this case I think it is a very professional-like marketing move. I recently got a blast from Codeweavers (makers of Crossover) which warned me not to update to the latest glibc libraries from Red Hat since they would break binary compatability with their product. The patches the Red Hat were putting out would have forced an upgrade of glibc from 2.2.93 to 2.3, breaking WINE and other things. My guess is that Red Hat is upgrading to glibc in V9.0, which might break binary compatability in a few things. Upgrading to the next major number is a well-known method of signaling binary compatability change. Apparently Red Hat is using that signal. Hopefully they will also allow people to link to the older library if needed. md ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
SCO sues IBM over Linux
Hi, You will probably hear about this at least 20 times today, but if you have not heard of it yet, there is the actual papers filed at http://www.sco.com/scosource/ In reading these papers I see more holes in their thinking than exists in Swiss Cheese, not the least of which is the fact that they don't own Unix (which is a trademark owned by X/Open), but what they own is a copyrighted code stream that originally came from ATT through Novell. I see this as a half-hearted attempt to blackmail IBM to settle out of court, and I think that SCO underestimates IBM in this case, since an out-of-court settlement would do nothing for the total over-all Linux and Open Source community, and IBM knows that this would not be a good thing. md ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Linux in Exeter Public Schools?
Casey, I have given talks to various chambers of commerce and school boards regarding the use of Linux in education. My talks show that Linux and Open Source not only save money, but lead to a better and more vibrant learning experience. I would be happy to give such a talk at a local meeting (Rotary, School board meeting, chamber of commerce) if you could give me the proper contact names. Even though the site plan has not been drawn up, it might be a good time to broach the issue with them, to start them down the path of Open Source. Investigating the software they will need can be a parallel project to that of laying mortar. I think that locating all the software and putting together a software map might be an interesting (and fun) project for gnhlug, but I can not speak for the rest of the group. If you want me to speak in Exeter, I travel quite a bit, so we will have to coordinate dates closely. Warmest regards, md P.S. I estimate the worth of my college education, ammortized over my (so far) thirty years of work experience, to be approximately two million dollars. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: SBC patents the wheel
The fact that there is prior art does not prevent a patent from being issued, (as long as the patent clerk is unaware of the prior art), nor does it prevent someone using a bad patent from scaring an infringer into paying some nominal royalty, just to avoid any type of legal action. Only one of the reasons why software patents are bad. md ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: another windoze emulator
Win4Lin is not a virtual machine.you cannot run another operating system on top of it the way you can with VMware. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
FRED
Hi, For many years I tried to get people at Digital Equipment Corporation, and later Compaq, to name a project FRED. Why FRED? For two simple reasons: o We were always late in naming a project, sometimes to the point of delaying shipment because the name was not chosen early enough o Fred Canter was a master software engineer, and I wanted to name a product after him From the first time I stepped in the door of Digital in 1983 I was aware there was this engineer who would almost live at the office. He was the one that people would go to for sage engineering advice, or to get a good fix on where they should be going. Fred believed in quality, and when one of his main products (Ultrix-11) was going to be retired, Fred fixed every last recorded bug in it. As a PDP-11 based operating system, it used fifteen overlays and (to my recollection) all but one byte in one overlay was used. It was the only Unix product that we put out which the University of California, Berkeley reluctantly complimented: Ultrix-11 is a pretty good operating system So recently, when Fred Canter retired from DEC/Compaq/HP I was sad that I could not attend his retirement party. When I related this to a friend of mine in South America (along with the FRED naming desire), my friend took this to heart and returned to his country with the mission of naming some software project FRED. Recently I received the e-mail below from this friend, Cesar Brod. Recognize that FRED is not just ANY software project, but will be the most visible of the Open Source software projects of which are growing in number and importance in South America. To have this project named after you is indeed an honor, and I am glad that honor belongs to Fred Canter. So Fred Canter, where ever you are, I hope that someone forwards this email to you, for I do not have your email address. And I hope that you understand the respect and admiration that I have had for you all these years. Warmest regards, Jon maddog Hall --- Forwarded Message Return-Path: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Delivery-Date: Wed Oct 02 12:13:55 2002 Envelope-to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Received: from [200.132.250.48] (helo=brod.fates.tche.br) by dtype.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 17wiO0-00082s-00 for [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Wed, 02 Oct 2002 12:13:55 + Received: from brod.com.br (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by brod.fates.tche.br (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9730D61DEA for [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 09:01:23 -0300 (BRT) Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 23:13:16 -0300 From: Cesar Brod [EMAIL PROTECTED] User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.1) Gecko/20020917 X-Accept-Language: pt-br, pt, en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jon Hall [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: things ... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello MD! We have decided to name FRED our Free Software Content Management System. It is going to be big! And we, of course, will thank you for the name. FRED is a MIOLO-based web portal, content management subsystem, designed for high volume, scalability and easy integration with database systems. Once FRED is built on top of MIOLO, it will make usage of existing and future MIOLO features, such as seamless migration to a cluster environment, data mirroring/replication and fault-tolerance. Best wishes, Cesar --- End of Forwarded Message -- = Jon maddog Hall Executive Director Linux International(SM) email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 80 Amherst St. Voice: +1.603.672.4557 Amherst, N.H. 03031-3032 U.S.A. WWW: http://www.li.org Board Member: Uniforum Association, USENIX Association (R)Linux is a registered trademark of Linus Torvalds in several countries. (SM)Linux International is a service mark of Linux International, Inc. -- = Jon maddog Hall Executive Director Linux International(SM) email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 80 Amherst St. Voice: +1.603.672.4557 Amherst, N.H. 03031-3032 U.S.A. WWW: http://www.li.org Board Member: Uniforum Association, USENIX Association (R)Linux is a registered trademark of Linus Torvalds in several countries. (SM)Linux International is a service mark of Linux International, Inc. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: 'process accounting paused'?
When there is a great load on the system and there is a lot of swapping and thrashing going on, the first thing the system does is try to unload itself, and the first thing it does is suspend process accounting. Usually a sign of low memory levels, perhaps generated by the release of many jobs at one time by cron. md -- = Jon maddog Hall Executive Director Linux International(SM) email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 80 Amherst St. Voice: +1.603.672.4557 Amherst, N.H. 03031-3032 U.S.A. WWW: http://www.li.org Board Member: Uniforum Association, USENIX Association (R)Linux is a registered trademark of Linus Torvalds in several countries. (SM)Linux International is a service mark of Linux International, Inc. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
SGI and maddog
Hi, I have received several email messages about my becoming an SGI employee. As some of you know, Linux International has never paid me a salary. I have always been a volunteer, whether it be as an employee of Digital, Compaq, VA Linux Systems or through other funding resources. I believe that I have maintained a neutral balance through all of these vendors' funding. For the past ten months I have received no salary at all. I was hoping that the economy would turn around and we could get more funding through LI, but the reality is that my bank account has run out. I had recently made a decision to do some consulting, and put out a feeler to some of the LI companies. SGI was one of the few to come back and hire my time. Consulting, however, means that you expend some of your time looking for contracts. And there are good months and bad months. Quite frankly I have put about 250,000 USD of my own money into LI, and I was a little tired of the bad months. I also was tired of the benefit battle, being passed from benefit group to benefit group, not knowing if I was covered. When you get to be my age, you think about such things. Therefore I was really interested in being an employee once more, not just a contractor or consultant. Paul McNamara, VP of Marketing at SGI and formerly a marketing person at Red Hat Software heard of my plight and offered to fund me as Executive Director of LI. In return he also asked that I spend some time doing three things: o help create some excitement around using Linux with supercomputers o help grow the Linux supercomputer marketplace o help SGI better understand and meet the Linux and Open Source market Now SGI is a member of LI, and I have often helped member companies do exactly these type of things for free. In fact I have an appointment to speak at two other company's events in the near future. As always, I will be speaking as Jon 'maddog' Hall of LI, not SGI. Paul understands that, I understand that, and I hope the rest of you understand that. SGI and I have hand-crafted a contract that states (effectively) that builds a legal firewall between what I do for SGI and what I do for LI and the rest of its member companies. One of the reasons why I accepted this particular job is that I have always been an advocate of Linux on Beowulf systems and supercomputers, always believed that the world needs more computing and I want to spread the use of both Beowulf, NUMA machines and the GRID. Recently I addressed the Board of Directors of LI on this issue, and they indicated that they would feel comfortable with whatever I did. I feel that the company and the agreement will allow me to meet the needs of LI, and with a steady income (rather than being in scramble mode, I will be able to concentrate on moving LI forward. Thanks for your time, md ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Are American high tech workers obsolete?
Hi, Alex asked me to comment on this topic even though it has died down a bit on the list. I will try to be brief [Several hours later I can see that I have failed in being brief.] First of all, everything I have seen indicates that Open Source is actually decentralizes software development. In the early days of computers, there was no such thing as shrink-wrapped software. This was due mainly to two factors: o lack of a large enough market for software (due to the ultra high price of computing) o lack of a standard platform, which helped extend the above bullet even longer into the history of computing When someone wanted a piece of software, they typically went to a company that developed that type of software and negotiated a contract that said what they were buying and how it would be tailored to their needs. I participated in several of these contract negotiations. Boy were they fun (said with deep sarcasm). But we got what we paid for. In effect, software was a service industry. Then the micro-computer brought about the age of shrink-wrapped software. Not at first. Not in the days of the Altair, but in the later days of the Lisa, Macintosh and IBM PC. Remember Charlie Chaplin and the rose? Remember Computertown? Remember when Digital Equipment Corporation had their retail stores (probably for about one year, ouch). From that point on you had the small number of engineers making a software PRODUCT that could be designed and manufactured ANYWHERE and sold to the world's customers. It fit anywhere from 50-90% of a customer's needs for that type of product, but it was inexpensive (realatively). Manufactured software is probably the easiest to ship off for creation in India or China. After that it is just having the language catalogs and manuals translated in the USA to English (or something that approximates English). There is no bickering about who does what, or what real-world customers want, you just give them new functionality. I am just being a little sarcastic here, but from working at DEC I know that sometimes the drive is more to get hardware out the door then get needed software functionality out. And while there is nothing to stop someone writing even a very complex set of requirements and tests for conformance (my heavens, it is all coming back to me!) and shipping it to off-shore development, you might only go that route if you were going to save a SIGNIFICANT amount of money, which might happen if the project required a LOT of programming from the ground up. With Open Source, however, that is becoming less and less of the case. Massive systems can be created by using database engines, web servers, search engines, shell tools, python widgets, and other building blocks. The skill now is not so much in the knowledge of how to program really fast code, but how to produce good solutions really fast. This is something that is hard to do over long distances and through different cultures. Having to go through three more iterations of development because of lack of understanding, or partial completion, or different time zones, is time expensive. Having someone local to look at the issue, and resolve it locally to your satisfaction is time saving. Time is money. I will be the first to agree that the world is more global, and we will never be able to go back. We can fight globalization with sanctions, but those have failed in the past. I will also say that the golden age of software is probably at an end from one standpoint, and that I do not expect that a Microsoft will ever spring again from the ashes. The creation of closed-source, low-investment, high- margin manufactured software is dead. When you get software that fits that catagory, there will be someone who will create an Open Source, free alternative sooner or later. When you have a billion people using computers, then you will have 500,000,000 who will be dissatisfied enough with the software to complain about it, 100,000 that will do something; 1,000 who will have the skills to do something and 500 who will have the skills and take the time to do somethingbut that will be enough. But when only two people are interested in a piece of software, and are competitors of each other, then it is unlikely that the one who develops the code will GPL the result. Now we have Open Source software, where large bodies of customizable code are put together by skilled people to create complex solutions. MomPop(TM) will probably have someone help them pull the code down over the net and install it on their machine. They might pay a little for this to be done, after all they do not have to pay $700. for MS office, so paying someone $100. to do this is not outrageous. Larger companies (or government organizations) may join together into Guilds that fund development of Open Source software to their needs and support. One hundred townships getting together and pooling $100,000.
Re: NFS Question
1) If applications are mounted via NFS, and someone runs the application, is the processor on the NFS server or the client system used? (I'm pretty sure it's the client, but I was told different today, so now I'm not sure..) If the application bits sit on the server, and the person on the client system types the command to execute them, then they run on the client. 2) What sort of problems are there with NFS on Linux? I have heard that there are file locking problems, but nothing really in depth. Anyone care to elaborate? Depends what you mean by file locking. Do you mean creating a lock file? Normally creating a lock file works fairly well with the NFS that is on Linux, since creation of a file is one of those things that NFS takes as an atomic operation, goes all the way through to the disk surface of the server before the client moves on. There can be a race condition though: o client asks to create lock file o server creates lock file o server starts to report back to client that lock file is created o server crashes before acknowledgement goes back to client. Now when the server recovers, the client (who never got an acknowledgement that the lock file had been created) tries to re-try the creation of the lock file. But that lock file exists (it was created right before the server crashed). So the client can not create it. Catch-22 Version 3 of the protocol (which also allows 64-bit files) corrects this little problem, and also speeds up the NFS writes considerably. If by file locking you mean that one process can not read or write to a file while a non-cooperating process is reading or writing to it...you got to be kidding. That is why you use a database. :-) md -- = Jon maddog Hall Executive Director Linux International(SM) email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 80 Amherst St. Voice: +1.603.672.4557 Amherst, N.H. 03031-3032 U.S.A. WWW: http://www.li.org Board Member: Uniforum Association, USENIX Association (R)Linux is a registered trademark of Linus Torvalds in several countries. (SM)Linux International is a service mark of Linux International, Inc. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: MELBA wed
No, No, No! Eric raised his hand (meaning he had a projector) and I got a couple of people who answered back just to me that they were interested. I will go ahead and do thisbut we need to know if we have the second floor room, or if we have to project on the back of the restaurant booth we sit in. md -- = Jon maddog Hall Executive Director Linux International(SM) email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 80 Amherst St. Voice: +1.603.672.4557 Amherst, N.H. 03031-3032 U.S.A. WWW: http://www.li.org Board Member: Uniforum Association, USENIX Association (R)Linux is a registered trademark of Linus Torvalds in several countries. (SM)Linux International is a service mark of Linux International, Inc. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: MELBA wed
Erik, I did not mean to scare you off.I realized later it was someone else who siad they might be able to get the projector. I am going to do the talk even without the projectorit is no biggie, just nicer to have something to look at besides my face. And Rob, this talk never made it out to announceit just was on the Disgust list. Maybe that is why we have such a low response? I have to leave for a meeting. After we are sure we have a room, would Rob or Paul want to make an official announcement? md -- = Jon maddog Hall Executive Director Linux International(SM) email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 80 Amherst St. Voice: +1.603.672.4557 Amherst, N.H. 03031-3032 U.S.A. WWW: http://www.li.org Board Member: Uniforum Association, USENIX Association (R)Linux is a registered trademark of Linus Torvalds in several countries. (SM)Linux International is a service mark of Linux International, Inc. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: MELBA wed
I could give my talk about the new things in the V2.5 kernel and what they mean to systems admins and programmers, if anyone would be interested. I should warn you that to do it in an hour I have to talk very fast and leave it at the 10,000 foot level. I would need an LCD projector. md -- = Jon maddog Hall Executive Director Linux International(SM) email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 80 Amherst St. Voice: +1.603.672.4557 Amherst, N.H. 03031-3032 U.S.A. WWW: http://www.li.org Board Member: Uniforum Association, USENIX Association (R)Linux is a registered trademark of Linus Torvalds in several countries. (SM)Linux International is a service mark of Linux International, Inc. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: MELBA wed
My talk would last at least an hour. I tried to give it recently and I spoke very rapidly and finished in about 54 minutes, but had to skip rapidly over the last 5 slides (out of about 30 slides). 90 minutes would be better for presentation and (of course from this group) lots of discussion would make it go out to two hours. Arguments could take it to 150 minutes. Drunken arguments takes it to three solid hours, but you could leave after the 150 minute mark. :-) We normally start about 1900, have a little old news, new news, introductions and Heckling of Ben (a regular feature of our meetings), which is over about 1915 hours, so we normally get started with the talks then, and we should be over about 2200. If we get done early we migrate downstairs for libations. I can not stay out too late, since I have an early morning appointment. md -- = Jon maddog Hall Executive Director Linux International(SM) email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 80 Amherst St. Voice: +1.603.672.4557 Amherst, N.H. 03031-3032 U.S.A. WWW: http://www.li.org Board Member: Uniforum Association, USENIX Association (R)Linux is a registered trademark of Linus Torvalds in several countries. (SM)Linux International is a service mark of Linux International, Inc. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Speaking of wireless
802.11g will be 54 MBit/sec, just as a is. It will be in the 2.4 GHz frequency range just as 802.11b, microwave ovens, some cordless phones. 802.11g will have better range than 802.11a, due to its lower frequency and lesser ability to be absorbed by people, leaves, etc. 802.11b and 802.11g are usable over in Europe and Asia because their frequencies are in the 2.4GHz range. 802.11a is only legally available and usable on this side of the pond. 802.11g will probably be out early next year. Until it is, I would recommend buying 802.11b or compatible. As to access points, I got an SMC, which has three wired ports, a parallel printer port that works with both windows and Linux and allows them (and my notebook working off a wireless LAN) to share a printer, and a WAN port for the DSL modem. The unit uses a web browser to set it up, and has been working flawlessly for several months now. I bought a 900 MHz phone, which sits happily next to it. The phone is not affected by either the wireless LAN nor the microwave. And why did they go from b to g? What happened to c,d,e, and f?? Actually they went from b to a to g.and probably the same reason that the Ford Model T car had a follow-on model that was the Model A. md -- = Jon maddog Hall Executive Director Linux International(SM) email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 80 Amherst St. Voice: +1.603.672.4557 Amherst, N.H. 03031-3032 U.S.A. WWW: http://www.li.org Board Member: Uniforum Association, USENIX Association (R)Linux is a registered trademark of Linus Torvalds in several countries. (SM)Linux International is a service mark of Linux International, Inc. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: UNIX Arcana [was Re: Perl (or Unix vs. MS, actually) ]
[EMAIL PROTECTED] said: AFAIK, no. I believe that the original development was on some PDP-11's (11/45's?) No, the original development was on a PDP-7, and in assembler. The second machine it ran on was a PDP-11, also in assembler. It was after that port that Dennis wrote C, to make the next port easier. I think that for the most part he succeeded. [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Okay, I have to ask: What's a RIM loader? O.K.: First you toggle in the BIN loader. On the PDP-8 this was seventeen twelve-bit instructions, so you have to flip (and get ABSOLUTELY CORRECT) 204 switches, and this was AFTER you toggled in the correct starting address. That BIN loader then loaded in a paper tape that had the RIM loader on it, which (hopefully) stayed in memory to load in things like an Editor, Assembler and (eventually) your program. However, with only 4K words (and poor programming skills) you usually overwrote the RIM loader with your program bombing (er, ah) running, so you had to start ALL OVER AGAIN. Ah, the good old days. :-) md -- = Jon maddog Hall Executive Director Linux International(SM) email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 80 Amherst St. Voice: +1.603.672.4557 Amherst, N.H. 03031-3032 U.S.A. WWW: http://www.li.org Board Member: Uniforum Association, USENIX Association (R)Linux is a registered trademark of Linus Torvalds in several countries. (SM)Linux International is a service mark of Linux International, Inc. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: UNIX Arcana [was Re: Perl (or Unix vs. MS, actually) ]
[EMAIL PROTECTED] said: All this in 4K memory. Yeah, but Burger King was not selling as many hamburgers back in those days. :-) md -- = Jon maddog Hall Executive Director Linux International(SM) email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 80 Amherst St. Voice: +1.603.672.4557 Amherst, N.H. 03031-3032 U.S.A. WWW: http://www.li.org Board Member: Uniforum Association, USENIX Association (R)Linux is a registered trademark of Linus Torvalds in several countries. (SM)Linux International is a service mark of Linux International, Inc. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: UNIX Arcana [was Re: Perl (or Unix vs. MS, actually) ]
To throw a bit (pun un-intentional) more into this discussion, don't assume that a byte was eight bits. The PDP-8, Linc-8 and PDP-12 for instance, were all twelve bit words, broken down into two six-bit characters. Nevertheless, back in those days saving a few bits for every entry in a symbol table was worth the time and effort. md -- = Jon maddog Hall Executive Director Linux International(SM) email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 80 Amherst St. Voice: +1.603.672.4557 Amherst, N.H. 03031-3032 U.S.A. WWW: http://www.li.org Board Member: Uniforum Association, USENIX Association (R)Linux is a registered trademark of Linus Torvalds in several countries. (SM)Linux International is a service mark of Linux International, Inc. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
