Re: Help build the new GNHLUG Internet server

2006-02-15 Thread Steven W. Orr 
On Wednesday, Feb 15th 2006 at 08:47 -0500, quoth Jeff Kinz:

=>On Fri, Feb 10, 2006 at 11:13:03AM -0500, Steven W. Orr wrote:
=>Whew, very long.. deleted
=>> 
=>> Here's an example that some might find sexy:
=>> 
=>> The goal (for me) is to end up with a list that does not allow 
=>> attachments. That way people are guaranteed to not get a virus in the 
=>> mail.
=>
=>some config stuff deleted (not interesting unless you know the config
=>language)
=>
=>What I got from your email was that mj2 can require that each email have
=>a plain text section (and can force html to be plaintext).  This is a
=>good thing.

You're basically correct. The end result is that when possible, things 
are converted to plaintext and all attachments are stripped.

=>Can mj2 be configured to allow a pgp sig attachment and still disallow
=>all other attachments?

I believe so. There are config params for footers, but I'm not sure how to 
set up the footer as an attachment. (I'd be suprised if it can't be done.)

=>How about source code attachments, how can they be handled? 

Yes. Allow attachments only if they are plaintext.

=>One last question, since mj2 is object oriented, what are the
=>performance issues?  How much does it load a system down to run it?
=>What is the underlying technology? 

People seem to be happy with it running lists with tens of thousands of 
subscribers. It ran very slowly for me until one day by accident I toggled 
something in sendmail


-- 
Time flies like the wind. Fruit flies like a banana. Stranger things have  .0.
happened but none stranger than this. Does your driver's license say Organ ..0
Donor?Black holes are where God divided by zero. Listen to me! We are all- 000
individuals! What if this weren't a hypothetical question?
steveo at syslang.net
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Re: Help build the new GNHLUG Internet server

2006-02-15 Thread Jeff Kinz 
On Fri, Feb 10, 2006 at 11:13:03AM -0500, Steven W. Orr wrote:
Whew, very long.. deleted
> 
> Here's an example that some might find sexy:
> 
> The goal (for me) is to end up with a list that does not allow 
> attachments. That way people are guaranteed to not get a virus in the 
> mail.

some config stuff deleted (not interesting unless you know the config
language)

What I got from your email was that mj2 can require that each email have
a plain text section (and can force html to be plaintext).  This is a
good thing.

Can mj2 be configured to allow a pgp sig attachment and still disallow
all other attachments?

How about source code attachments, how can they be handled? 

One last question, since mj2 is object oriented, what are the
performance issues?  How much does it load a system down to run it?
What is the underlying technology? 



-- 
Jeff Kinz, Emergent Research, Hudson, MA.
speech recognition software may have been used to create this e-mail

"The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men
of zeal, well-meaning but without understanding." - Brandeis

To think contrary to one's era is heroism. But to speak against it is
madness. -- Eugene Ionesco
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Re: Help build the new GNHLUG Internet server

2006-02-10 Thread Bruce Dawson 
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Ben Scott wrote:
> On 2/10/06, Bruce Dawson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
>>I should point out that time is of the essence. The drop-dead date for
>>the new server is early March ...
> 
>   Wait a minute.  You had stated that the server "hive" is being
> upgraded in early March, and the server "rogue" will be upgraded a
> month or four after that.  My understanding is that hive hosts the
> main website (Apache, TWiki), while rogue hosts the mailing lists.  If
> so, that implies that the mailing lists can wait another month or two
> if they have to.

Your understanding is correct. gnhlug on hive will "drop dead" in early
March - according to what I understand we understood earlier. Rogue is
still a bit further out.

I apologize for lack of clarity - I'm still under the gun on this router
issue and my brain wants to think like a router at the moment, which is
not conducive to human commmunication skills.

- --Bruce
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Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

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8VwKaWgljlmzc1nVI6J9ofQ=
=88ea
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Re: Help build the new GNHLUG Internet server

2006-02-10 Thread Ben Scott 
On 2/10/06, Bruce Dawson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I should point out that time is of the essence. The drop-dead date for
> the new server is early March ...

  Wait a minute.  You had stated that the server "hive" is being
upgraded in early March, and the server "rogue" will be upgraded a
month or four after that.  My understanding is that hive hosts the
main website (Apache, TWiki), while rogue hosts the mailing lists.  If
so, that implies that the mailing lists can wait another month or two
if they have to.

  That being said, I'm all for getting everything GNHLUG off rogue and
hive and out of your hair as soon as possible.

> I don't think it is advisable to switch to a new mailing list manager at
> this point in time - maybe later, but not now.

  I agree.  We're better off migrating from mailman on the old server
to mailman on the new server first, and then doing any
mailman->whatever migration (if any).

> This is the appropriate forum to discuss the pros and cons of mailman vs
> majordomo2. This is *not* the appropriate forum to discuss which one
> GNHLUG should be using - that discussion belongs in gnhlug-sysadmin.

  My thoughts exactly.  :)

-- Ben
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Re: Help build the new GNHLUG Internet server

2006-02-10 Thread Bruce Dawson 
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

I should point out that time is of the essence. The drop-dead date for
the new server is early March, so between now and then, we have to:

1. Get a distro loaded onto the new server.
2. Get all existing data and programs from the old server to the new server.
3. Test and hope nothing breaks.
4. Deploy.

Each of those steps has to take, at maximum, a few days.

This is being done with volunteer worker(s) with unspecified available time.

I don't think it is advisable to switch to a new mailing list manager at
this point in time - maybe later, but not now. (To add a new mailing
list manager, we would have to add a step 2.5 - Migrate existing data to
new application).

This is the appropriate forum to discuss the pros and cons of mailman vs
majordomo2. This is *not* the appropriate forum to discuss which one
GNHLUG should be using - that discussion belongs in gnhlug-sysadmin.

Sorry for the terse and direct nature of this message, but "I'm busy"
with other things at the moment. I just want to get/set things straight
before we dive into another mis-understood flame war for which we have
little mental bandwidth.

- --Bruce

Steven W. Orr wrote:
> On Friday, Feb 10th 2006 at 10:02 -0500, quoth Jeff Kinz:
> 
> =>On Fri, Feb 10, 2006 at 09:36:03AM -0500, Steven W. Orr wrote:
> =>> May I strongly urge you to not use Mailman and to instead consider 
> =>> Majordomo2 (see: http://www.mj2.org) 
> =>> 
> =>Steve, could you give up some more info about why Majordomo2 is a better 
> =>maillist manager?
> =>
> =>Are there certain features we would want to use, or is it efficient in
> =>terms of machine resources, or more secure, or more spamproof?
> 
> On Friday, Feb 10th 2006 at 10:29 -0500, quoth Bill McGonigle:
> 
> =>On Feb 10, 2006, at 09:36, Steven W. Orr wrote:
> =>
> =>> It is a better mailinglist manager.
> =>
> =>Fill in here the ways mailman is insufficient for our use or things that
> =>Majordomo would let us do that we can't.
> =>
> =>> It suffers from not getting enough use
> =>> compared to what Mailman was able to achieve with Red Hat having been the
> =>> promoter.
> =>
> =>I remember when Mailman was new and we all jumped at the chance to get away
> =>from majordomo.  That's why Redhat included it.  I was just debugging a
> =>Majordomo setup for a client last week and bemoaned that they weren't on
> =>mailman, which I've found much easier to setup and customize.  For their 
> setup
> =>Majordomo didn't offer any benefits, but maybe they exist for other
> =>requirements.
> =>
> =>> I use it here on syslang for the dozen odd lists I run. My
> =>> biggest list is about 800 people and it works really well.
> =>
> =>FYI, mailman scales to about 10K per list.  After that 'python pickles' get 
> in
> =>the way and it falls apart.  I've done some research lately for a client 
> with
> =>a 120K customer mailing list and the solution seems to be to use the mysql
> =>backend to avoid python pickles.   You can also chain 'umbrella lists' but
> =>that's somewhat of a hack.  Mailman 3 is also listed as a solution but that
> =>appears to be vapor, currently aimed at being a Zope personality.  My
> =>goodness.
> 
> Good questions. Also very hard to answer. Picking list software is very 
> hard because to do it correctly you have to become somewhat expert in all 
> of the candidates.
> 
> If the goal is to build a new server with the least amount of work then by 
> all means, you should stick with what you know. If you'd like to learn a 
> few tricks then you might want to consider this.
> 
> The entire structure of mj2 configuration is object oriented. The specific 
> configuration of a list is simply an instantiation of characteristics that 
> are inherited. There is a GLOBAL conf as well as a highly flexible DEFAULT 
> conf. Yes, it's called Majordomo with a 2 at the end but it is not related 
> to the old Majordomo which has not seen any development in well over a 
> decade. It does have a good web interface built in and it is very secure 
> as most lists are. The number of parameters that are available for 
> tweaking by the sysadmin is extremely rich. Very fine controls for things 
> like bounce management, spam control, moderation, digests, headers, 
> footers, and I could go on for hours.
> 
> Here's an example that some might find sexy:
> 
> The goal (for me) is to end up with a list that does not allow 
> attachments. That way people are guaranteed to not get a virus in the 
> mail.
> 
> configshow frambors config_defaults < plaintext
> rfc2369
> ENDAAQ
> 
> What is plaintext you ask? The snip below defines the attachment_filters 
> value for the DEFAULT:plaintext instance.
> 
> configset DEFAULT:plaintext attachment_filters < text/plain | allow
> /./ | discard
> text/html | format
> text/enriched | format
> ENDAAC
> 
> configset frambors attachment_rules < text/plain | require
> ENDAAL
> 
> configset frambors comments < The plaintext template defines attachment_f

Re: Help build the new GNHLUG Internet server

2006-02-10 Thread Michael ODonnell 


Somebody said that the proper place for this exchange was
the admins list but even though it isn't directly applicable
to anything I happen to be currently working on I'm glad to
see it going by and it's comforting to think that I could
dig it out of the main GNHLUG archive if I had to.
 
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Re: Help build the new GNHLUG Internet server

2006-02-10 Thread Brian Chabot 
Steven W. Orr wrote:

>It does have a good web interface built in and it is very secure 
>as most lists are. The number of parameters that are available for 
>tweaking by the sysadmin is extremely rich. Very fine controls for things 
>like bounce management, spam control, moderation, digests, headers, 
>footers, and I could go on for hours.
>  
>

All good stuff.  All stuff common to both Majordomo2 and Mailman.

>Here's an example that some might find sexy:
>
>The goal (for me) is to end up with a list that does not allow 
>attachments. That way people are guaranteed to not get a virus in the 
>mail.
>
>configshow frambors config_defaults rfc2369
>ENDAAQ
>  
>

Ok, you lost me here at frambors. 

The config examples you give look like some foreign language.

Perhaps it's my personal preference and experience, but there are two
styles of configurations that I find easy to use: the standard *nix
.conf style of var=value and XML style.  The examples you give make me
want to grep the docs and that's a waste of tie if there is a system I
can look at and figure out.

Majordomo2 may be a good system, but I think the ease of use due to
familiarity of Mailman might be enough of a reason to keep it. 

I really don't see any significant advantage to switching.

Brian


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</pre></span>
</blockquote><br>

<h3><span class=subject><a href="/gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org/msg12989.html">Mailing list manager software (was: Help build the new GNHLUG Internet server)</a></span></h3>
<div class="darkgray font13">
<span class="sender pipe">
<span class=date><a href="/search?l=gnhlug-discuss%40mail.gnhlug.org&amp;q=date:20060210&amp;o=newest&amp;f=1">2006-02-10</a></span></span>
<span class="sender pipe">
<span class=thead><a href="/search?l=gnhlug-discuss%40mail.gnhlug.org&amp;q=subject:%22Mailing+list+manager+software+%5C%28was%5C%3A+Help+build+the+new+GNHLUG+Internet+server%5C%29%22&amp;o=newest&amp;f=1">Thread</a></span></span>
<span class=name><a href="/search?l=gnhlug-discuss%40mail.gnhlug.org&amp;q=from:%22Ben+Scott%22&amp;o=newest&amp;f=1">Ben Scott</a></span>
</div>
<blockquote><span class="msgFragment"><pre>
[Keeping gnhlug-discuss because a generic discussion of pros and cons
of mailing list software is useful to all]

On 2/10/06, Steven W. Orr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> May I strongly urge you to not use Mailman and to instead consider
> Majordomo2 (see: http://www.mj2.org)

  We're currently using Mailman because that's what we've been using.

  Switching list software (or anything else about the group) is
something that's always open to discussion.

  To have the most influence over the decision, put your money where
your mouth is.  :)  Sign up to help us migrate the list management
software and to help administer the mailing lists.  :)

On 2/10/06, Steven W. Orr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> The entire structure of mj2 configuration is object oriented ...
[long description cut]

  None of that really compares mj2 to Mailman, though.  :)

  While the opinion "I like mj2 a lot, and think it has nice features"
is a valid one, and valuable, it is not the same as "I've compared mj2
to Mailman, and believe mj2 is better because ...".

-- Ben "I just use the darn thing" Scott
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</pre></span>
</blockquote><br>

<h3><span class=subject><a href="/gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org/msg12987.html">Re: Help build the new GNHLUG Internet server</a></span></h3>
<div class="darkgray font13">
<span class="sender pipe">
<span class=date><a href="/search?l=gnhlug-discuss%40mail.gnhlug.org&amp;q=date:20060210&amp;o=newest&amp;f=1">2006-02-10</a></span></span>
<span class="sender pipe">
<span class=thead><a href="/search?l=gnhlug-discuss%40mail.gnhlug.org&amp;q=subject:%22Help+build+the+new+GNHLUG+Internet+server%22&amp;o=newest&amp;f=1">Thread</a></span></span>
<span class=name><a href="/search?l=gnhlug-discuss%40mail.gnhlug.org&amp;q=from:%22Steven+W.+Orr%22&amp;o=newest&amp;f=1">Steven W. Orr</a></span>
</div>
<blockquote><span class="msgFragment"><pre>
On Friday, Feb 10th 2006 at 10:02 -0500, quoth Jeff Kinz:

=>On Fri, Feb 10, 2006 at 09:36:03AM -0500, Steven W. Orr wrote:
=>> May I strongly urge you to not use Mailman and to instead consider 
=>> Majordomo2 (see: http://www.mj2.org) 
=>> 
=>Steve, could you give up some more info about why Majordomo2 is a better 
=>maillist manager?
=>
=>Are there certain features we would want to use, or is it efficient in
=>terms of machine resources, or more secure, or more spamproof?

On Friday, Feb 10th 2006 at 10:29 -0500, quoth Bill McGonigle:

=>On Feb 10, 2006, at 09:36, Steven W. Orr wrote:
=>
=>> It is a better mailinglist manager.
=>
=>Fill in here the ways mailman is insufficient for our use or things that
=>Majordomo would let us do that we can't.
=>
=>> It suffers from not getting enough use
=>> compared to what Mailman was able to achieve with Red Hat having been the
=>> promoter.
=>
=>I remember when Mailman was new and we all jumped at the chance to get away
=>from majordomo.  That's why Redhat included it.  I was just debugging a
=>Majordomo setup for a client last week and bemoaned that they weren't on
=>mailman, which I've found much easier to setup and customize.  For their setup
=>Majordomo didn't offer any benefits, but maybe they exist for other
=>requirements.
=>
=>> I use it here on syslang for the dozen odd lists I run. My
=>> biggest list is about 800 people and it works really well.
=>
=>FYI, mailman scales to about 10K per list.  After that 'python pickles' get in
=>the way and it falls apart.  I've done some research lately for a client with
=>a 120K customer mailing list and the solution seems to be to use the mysql
=>backend to avoid python pickles.   You can also chain 'umbrella lists' but
=>that's somewhat of a hack.  Mailman 3 is also listed as a solution but that
=>appears to be vapor, currently aimed at being a Zope personality.  My
=>goodness.

Good questions. Also very hard to answer. Picking list software is very 
hard because to do it correctly you have to become somewhat expert in all 
of the candidates.

If the goal is to build a new server with the least amount of work then by 
all means, you should stick with what you know. If you'd like to learn a 
few tricks then you might want to consider this.

The entire structure of mj2 configuration is object oriented. The specific 
configuration of a list is simply an instantiation of characteristics that 
are inherited. There is a GLOBAL conf as well as a highly flexible DEFAULT 
conf. Yes, it's called Majordomo with a 2 at the end but it is not related 
to the old Majordomo which has not seen any development in well over a 
decade. It does have a good web interface built in and it is very secure 
as most lists are. The number of parameters that are available for 
tweaking by the sysadmin is extremely rich. Very fine controls for things 
like bounce management, spam control, moderation, digests, headers, 
footers, and I could go on for hours.

Here's an example that some might find sexy:

The goal (for me) is to end up with a list that does not allow 
attachments. That way people are guaranteed to not get a virus in the 
mail.

configshow frambors config_defaults <http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss

</pre></span>
</blockquote><br>

<h3><span class=subject><a href="/gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org/msg12984.html">Re: Help build the new GNHLUG Internet server</a></span></h3>
<div class="darkgray font13">
<span class="sender pipe">
<span class=date><a href="/search?l=gnhlug-discuss%40mail.gnhlug.org&amp;q=date:20060210&amp;o=newest&amp;f=1">2006-02-10</a></span></span>
<span class="sender pipe">
<span class=thead><a href="/search?l=gnhlug-discuss%40mail.gnhlug.org&amp;q=subject:%22Help+build+the+new+GNHLUG+Internet+server%22&amp;o=newest&amp;f=1">Thread</a></span></span>
<span class=name><a href="/search?l=gnhlug-discuss%40mail.gnhlug.org&amp;q=from:%22Bill+McGonigle%22&amp;o=newest&amp;f=1">Bill McGonigle</a></span>
</div>
<blockquote><span class="msgFragment"><pre>

On Feb 10, 2006, at 09:36, Steven W. Orr wrote:


It is a better mailinglist manager.


Fill in here the ways mailman is insufficient for our use or things 
that Majordomo would let us do that we can't.



It suffers from not getting enough use
compared to what Mailman was able to achieve with Red Hat having been 
the

promoter.


I remember when Mailman was new and we all jumped at the chance to get 
away from majordomo.  That's why Redhat included it.  I was just 
debugging a Majordomo setup for a client last week and bemoaned that 
they weren't on mailman, which I've found much easier to setup and 
customize.  For their setup Majordomo didn't offer any benefits, but 
maybe they exist for other requirements.



I use it here on syslang for the dozen odd lists I run. My
biggest list is about 800 people and it works really well.


FYI, mailman scales to about 10K per list.  After that 'python pickles' 
get in the way and it falls apart.  I've done some research lately for 
a client with a 120K customer mailing list and the solution seems to be 
to use the mysql backend to avoid python pickles.   You can also chain 
'umbrella lists' but that's somewhat of a hack.  Mailman 3 is also 
listed as a solution but that appears to be vapor, currently aimed at 
being a Zope personality.  My goodness.


Reply-To set to gnhlug-sysadmin, where this discussion should be now.

-Bill
-
Bill McGonigle, Owner   Work: 603.448.4440
BFC Computing, LLC  Home: 603.448.1668
[EMAIL PROTECTED]   Cell: 603.252.2606
http://www.bfccomputing.com/Page: 603.442.1833
Blog: http://blog.bfccomputing.com/
VCard: http://bfccomputing.com/vcard/bill.vcf

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</pre></span>
</blockquote><br>

<h3><span class=subject><a href="/gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org/msg12983.html">Re: Help build the new GNHLUG Internet server</a></span></h3>
<div class="darkgray font13">
<span class="sender pipe">
<span class=date><a href="/search?l=gnhlug-discuss%40mail.gnhlug.org&amp;q=date:20060210&amp;o=newest&amp;f=1">2006-02-10</a></span></span>
<span class="sender pipe">
<span class=thead><a href="/search?l=gnhlug-discuss%40mail.gnhlug.org&amp;q=subject:%22Help+build+the+new+GNHLUG+Internet+server%22&amp;o=newest&amp;f=1">Thread</a></span></span>
<span class=name><a href="/search?l=gnhlug-discuss%40mail.gnhlug.org&amp;q=from:%22Jeff+Kinz%22&amp;o=newest&amp;f=1">Jeff Kinz</a></span>
</div>
<blockquote><span class="msgFragment"><pre>
On Fri, Feb 10, 2006 at 09:36:03AM -0500, Steven W. Orr wrote:
> May I strongly urge you to not use Mailman and to instead consider 
> Majordomo2 (see: http://www.mj2.org) 
> 
> It is a better mailinglist manager. It suffers from not getting enough use 
> compared to what Mailman was able to achieve with Red Hat having been the 
> promoter. I use it here on syslang for the dozen odd lists I run. My 
> biggest list is about 800 people and it works really well.

Steve, could you give up some more info about why Majordomo2 is a better 
maillist manager?

Are there certain features we would want to use, or is it efficient in
terms of machine resources, or more secure, or more spamproof?

Thanks

-- 
Jeff Kinz, Emergent Research, Hudson, MA.
speech recognition software may have been used to create this e-mail

"The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men
of zeal, well-meaning but without understanding." - Brandeis

To think contrary to one's era is heroism. But to speak against it is
madness. -- Eugene Ionesco
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</pre></span>
</blockquote><br>

<h3><span class=subject><a href="/gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org/msg12981.html">Re: Help build the new GNHLUG Internet server</a></span></h3>
<div class="darkgray font13">
<span class="sender pipe">
<span class=date><a href="/search?l=gnhlug-discuss%40mail.gnhlug.org&amp;q=date:20060210&amp;o=newest&amp;f=1">2006-02-10</a></span></span>
<span class="sender pipe">
<span class=thead><a href="/search?l=gnhlug-discuss%40mail.gnhlug.org&amp;q=subject:%22Help+build+the+new+GNHLUG+Internet+server%22&amp;o=newest&amp;f=1">Thread</a></span></span>
<span class=name><a href="/search?l=gnhlug-discuss%40mail.gnhlug.org&amp;q=from:%22Christopher+Schmidt%22&amp;o=newest&amp;f=1">Christopher Schmidt</a></span>
</div>
<blockquote><span class="msgFragment"><pre>
On Fri, Feb 10, 2006 at 09:36:03AM -0500, Steven W. Orr wrote:
> On Thursday, Feb 9th 2006 at 20:28 -0500, quoth Ben Scott:
> 
> =>Hello GNHLUG!
> =>
> =>  A project has been started to enhance GNHLUG's Internet presence.
> =>The initial focus of this project will be to configure and deploy a
> =>new server. The plan is the server will eventually host the GNHLUG web
> =>and mailing list servers, as well as be home to future GNHLUG ideas.
> =>
> ...
> =>
> =>  Initially, things we will be using include: SSH, Apache, Sendmail,
> =>TWiki, GNU Mailman.
> =>
> =>  In the future, we may also use: Postfix, PHP, Python, Zope, Plone,
> =>*SQL, and whatever else brings something useful to the table.
> 
> May I strongly urge you to not use Mailman and to instead consider 
> Majordomo2 (see: http://www.mj2.org) 
> 
> It is a better mailinglist manager. It suffers from not getting enough use 
> compared to what Mailman was able to achieve with Red Hat having been the 
> promoter. I use it here on syslang for the dozen odd lists I run. My 
> biggest list is about 800 people and it works really well.

Two reasons that I would recommend *against* this:
 * Inertia. Mailman is what has been used for the mailing list forever,
   there haven't been any major issues that I'm aware of, and there's
   therefore no reason to change (unless there are issues I'm unaware
   of).
 * Mailman being the preferred choice (which you list as a downside) is
   something that I consider an upside. I hate it when I have to use a
   non-mailman list becasue I know *how* to use mailman list, since
   that's the leading majority.

But I'm guessing that mailing list software is almost as religious as
distro choice, so I'm not going to argue it, just pointing out that
without a significant impetuous to change, there's no reason to, imho.

-- 
Christopher Schmidt
Web Developer
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</pre></span>
</blockquote><br>

<h3><span class=subject><a href="/gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org/msg12980.html">Re: Help build the new GNHLUG Internet server</a></span></h3>
<div class="darkgray font13">
<span class="sender pipe">
<span class=date><a href="/search?l=gnhlug-discuss%40mail.gnhlug.org&amp;q=date:20060210&amp;o=newest&amp;f=1">2006-02-10</a></span></span>
<span class="sender pipe">
<span class=thead><a href="/search?l=gnhlug-discuss%40mail.gnhlug.org&amp;q=subject:%22Help+build+the+new+GNHLUG+Internet+server%22&amp;o=newest&amp;f=1">Thread</a></span></span>
<span class=name><a href="/search?l=gnhlug-discuss%40mail.gnhlug.org&amp;q=from:%22Steven+W.+Orr%22&amp;o=newest&amp;f=1">Steven W. Orr</a></span>
</div>
<blockquote><span class="msgFragment"><pre>
On Thursday, Feb 9th 2006 at 20:28 -0500, quoth Ben Scott:

=>Hello GNHLUG!
=>
=>  A project has been started to enhance GNHLUG's Internet presence.
=>The initial focus of this project will be to configure and deploy a
=>new server. The plan is the server will eventually host the GNHLUG web
=>and mailing list servers, as well as be home to future GNHLUG ideas.
=>
...
=>
=>  Initially, things we will be using include: SSH, Apache, Sendmail,
=>TWiki, GNU Mailman.
=>
=>  In the future, we may also use: Postfix, PHP, Python, Zope, Plone,
=>*SQL, and whatever else brings something useful to the table.

May I strongly urge you to not use Mailman and to instead consider 
Majordomo2 (see: http://www.mj2.org) 

It is a better mailinglist manager. It suffers from not getting enough use 
compared to what Mailman was able to achieve with Red Hat having been the 
promoter. I use it here on syslang for the dozen odd lists I run. My 
biggest list is about 800 people and it works really well.

-- 
Time flies like the wind. Fruit flies like a banana. Stranger things have  .0.
happened but none stranger than this. Does your driver's license say Organ ..0
Donor?Black holes are where God divided by zero. Listen to me! We are all- 000
individuals! What if this weren't a hypothetical question?
steveo at syslang.net
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</pre></span>
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<h3><span class=subject><a href="/gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org/msg12977.html">Help build the new GNHLUG Internet server</a></span></h3>
<div class="darkgray font13">
<span class="sender pipe">
<span class=date><a href="/search?l=gnhlug-discuss%40mail.gnhlug.org&amp;q=date:20060209&amp;o=newest&amp;f=1">2006-02-09</a></span></span>
<span class="sender pipe">
<span class=thead><a href="/search?l=gnhlug-discuss%40mail.gnhlug.org&amp;q=subject:%22Help+build+the+new+GNHLUG+Internet+server%22&amp;o=newest&amp;f=1">Thread</a></span></span>
<span class=name><a href="/search?l=gnhlug-discuss%40mail.gnhlug.org&amp;q=from:%22Ben+Scott%22&amp;o=newest&amp;f=1">Ben Scott</a></span>
</div>
<blockquote><span class="msgFragment"><pre>
Hello GNHLUG!

  A project has been started to enhance GNHLUG's Internet presence.
The initial focus of this project will be to configure and deploy a
new server. The plan is the server will eventually host the GNHLUG web
and mailing list servers, as well as be home to future GNHLUG ideas.

  To make this happen, we need help! We need people who have
experience with Linux/Unix system administration. This is more than
just a need for manpower. We want to make this project a group effort,
with the explicit goal of making this a case study in "How to do Linux
right". So if you've got good *nix system administration experience,
or even just know a few things that might help, please consider
joining our effort!

  Initially, things we will be using include: SSH, Apache, Sendmail,
TWiki, GNU Mailman.

  In the future, we may also use: Postfix, PHP, Python, Zope, Plone,
*SQL, and whatever else brings something useful to the table.

  If you think you might be interested in joining, visit:

http://wiki.gnhlug.org/twiki2/bin/view/Organizational/ServerPeople

Thanks!

-- Ben Scott, GNHLUG Server Project Coordinator
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