Re: Redhat 9.0 coming out April 7th
In a message dated: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 20:43:05 EST [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: >> I seem to remember a 7.0->7.1 bump with an incompatible compiler problem. >> I'd classify that as an incompatible binary ;) > > 7.0 came with that infamous, incredibly buggy "GCC 2.96" that was based on >a development snapshot of GCC, and not a real release. That was a problem. >However, Red Hat, for better or worse, maintained that same compiler tree >all the way through Red Hat 7.3. > > 7.1 marked the jump to the 2.4 kernel. It still ran the same binaries, >other than system utilities specific to 2.4. Could that be what you are >thinking of? Ayup, sorry, ECC errors in my brain :) -- Seeya, Paul -- Key fingerprint = 1660 FECC 5D21 D286 F853 E808 BB07 9239 53F1 28EE It may look like I'm just sitting here doing nothing, but I'm really actively waiting for all my problems to go away. If you're not having fun, you're not doing it right! ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Redhat 9.0 coming out April 7th
In a message dated: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 18:55:55 EST "Derek D. Martin" said: >At some point hitherto, [EMAIL PROTECTED] hath spake thusly: >> Again: Red Hat's long-standing policy on version numbers is that the major >> number gets bumped when they break binary compatibility. This typically > >Ordinarily yes, but I heard from a reliable source that this is a >Sun-like marketing move. What do you mean? Sun just released Solaris 2.9! ;) (or is it SunOS 5.9, or Solaris 9, or...?) -- Seeya, Paul -- Key fingerprint = 1660 FECC 5D21 D286 F853 E808 BB07 9239 53F1 28EE It may look like I'm just sitting here doing nothing, but I'm really actively waiting for all my problems to go away. If you're not having fun, you're not doing it right! ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Redhat 9.0 coming out April 7th
On Tue, Mar 25, 2003 at 10:14:03AM -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > In a message dated: 24 Mar 2003 22:57:59 EST > Rob Lembree said: > > >Well, now doesn't that figure. Here I am, working on a great > >presentation for the MerriLUG on Wednesday night on RH8.0.. > > Rob, > > We all are quite excited about next months presentation where you > then show us RH9.0 and explain all the improvements based on our > gripes of RH8.0, which I'm sure you'll take note of on Wednesday > night ;) It's Red Hat 9, dammit! ;-) And I also look forward to Rob's Red Hat 10 presentation in May! 'course, we'll probably have to wait until 2010 for Paul's Debian 4.0 presentation. :-P -- -Paul Iadonisi Senior System Administrator Red Hat Certified Engineer / Local Linux Lobbyist Ever see a penguin fly? -- Try Linux. GPL all the way: Sell services, don't lease secrets ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Redhat 9.0 coming out April 7th
In a message dated: 24 Mar 2003 22:57:59 EST Rob Lembree said: >Well, now doesn't that figure. Here I am, working on a great >presentation for the MerriLUG on Wednesday night on RH8.0.. Rob, We all are quite excited about next months presentation where you then show us RH9.0 and explain all the improvements based on our gripes of RH8.0, which I'm sure you'll take note of on Wednesday night ;) -- Seeya, Paul -- Key fingerprint = 1660 FECC 5D21 D286 F853 E808 BB07 9239 53F1 28EE It may look like I'm just sitting here doing nothing, but I'm really actively waiting for all my problems to go away. If you're not having fun, you're not doing it right! ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Redhat 9.0 coming out April 7th
On Mon, 2003-03-24 at 15:48, Jeff Macdonald wrote: > Or a week earlier if you are a paying RHN customer. Interesting, not > even a point release for Redhat 8.0! Well, now doesn't that figure. Here I am, working on a great presentation for the MerriLUG on Wednesday night on RH8.0.. I hope that all of you who have gripes and cheers for RH8 show up on Wednesday. The meeting's been widely publicized (even in the paper), and we're hoping for a lot of new folks, so a good turnout of expertise and differing opinions would be great to see! r > -- > Jeff Macdonald <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Into birding? Check out http://www.migratus.com -- Rob Lembree 29 Milk St. JumpShift, LLC Nashua, NH 03064-1651[EMAIL PROTECTED] Phone: 603.577.9714 PGP: 1F EE F8 58 30 F1 B1 20 C5 4F 12 21 AD 0D 6B 29 ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Redhat 9.0 coming out April 7th
On Mon, Mar 24, 2003 at 08:19:08PM -0500, Paul Iadonisi wrote: > NPTL broke *lots* of things and many apps that run on 9.0 won't run on > 8.0 (and vice-versa) without tweaking. A bump in the major number is > consistent with Red Hat's policy in this case. > > NPTL = Native Posix Thread Library I'm just fuming over the fact that my lead time for a book about Red Hat 9.0 has dropped from 6-12 months to 30 days. But what (in layman's/non-coder) terms is the big deal with NPTL? -Mark pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
RE: Redhat 9.0 coming out April 7th
On Mon, 2003-03-24 at 20:19, Paul Iadonisi wrote: > NPTL = Native Posix Thread Library I can't wait till they add epoll. Perhaps 9.1? A patch was released today for 2.4.20. -- Jeff Macdonald <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Into birding? Check out http://www.migratus.com signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: Redhat 9.0 coming out April 7th
On Mon, 24 Mar 2003, at 4:42pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > What their stated policy is and what they actually do are two different > things :) Very true. However, I feel it worth noting that Red Hat doesn't even have a "stated" policy on version numbers; I am simply observing what they have done since they started numbering their releases. > I seem to remember a 7.0->7.1 bump with an incompatible compiler problem. > I'd classify that as an incompatible binary ;) 7.0 came with that infamous, incredibly buggy "GCC 2.96" that was based on a development snapshot of GCC, and not a real release. That was a problem. However, Red Hat, for better or worse, maintained that same compiler tree all the way through Red Hat 7.3. 7.1 marked the jump to the 2.4 kernel. It still ran the same binaries, other than system utilities specific to 2.4. Could that be what you are thinking of? -- Ben Scott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> | The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do | | not represent the views or policy of any other person or organization. | | All information is provided without warranty of any kind. | ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
RE: Redhat 9.0 coming out April 7th
On Mon, 2003-03-24 at 16:42, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [snip] > (Insert snide remark about Red Hat's history of selective license > compliance here.) Hey, it's a big job. I wouldn't call it selective. It just takes time. Take a look at the release notes and you'll see that pine is now deprecated due to license issues. On the topic of 'why 9.0 and 8.1', I could have told you many moons ago, as soon as NPTL started showing up, that this release was most likely to be a major rev bump. Reason? Unlike some distributions *cough* Slackware *cough*, there is a method to Red Hat's versioning madness that's no secret: Binary compatibility. NPTL broke *lots* of things and many apps that run on 9.0 won't run on 8.0 (and vice-versa) without tweaking. A bump in the major number is consistent with Red Hat's policy in this case. NPTL = Native Posix Thread Library -- -Paul Iadonisi Senior System Administrator Red Hat Certified Engineer / Local Linux Lobbyist Ever see a penguin fly? -- Try Linux. GPL all the way: Sell services, don't lease secrets ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Redhat 9.0 coming out April 7th
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 "Derek D. Martin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Travis, I don't think that's a very fair assessment. I've been using > RH8 on virtually all my systems since it came out, and it's been > rock-solid. Frankly, I think it is the best release of ANY Linux > distribution that I've used... I've been doing the same; my mail/web/dns server at home is running Redhat 8.0. I did have two complaints about 8.0, one of which was fixed in the phoebe-3 beta. The minor complaint, which was finally fixed, was the metacity window manager, which didn't have an option to lower a window by right-clicking the title bar. When I did a google search I learned that this seemed to be the number one complaint about metacity, and that the author was adamant about not allowing it to be added. Personally, I found this to be a show-stopper, and eventually I gave up on metacity and installed sawfish. In the beta, the behavior was finally added, bound to middle-click. The major complaint, which still exists in the beta, has to do with apache, perl, and CPAN. I use a helpdesk package called RequestTracker, which depends heavily on a whole bunch of perl modules, and I was unable to get it installed on Redhat 8.x. Turns out I couldn't even set up CPAN; when I ran 'perl -MCPAN -e shell', and within that tried to install the Bundle::CPAN, it failed miserably with some bizarre errors. So I still keep around a Redhat 7.3 box to run RequestTracker. Aside from that, I also do a lot of video work, and I've found that the mpeg encoding and editing tools are more mature and stable now. - -- John Abreau / Executive Director, Boston Linux & Unix Email [EMAIL PROTECTED] / WWW http://www.abreau.net / PGP-Key-ID 0xD5C7B5D9 PGP-Key-Fingerprint 72 FB 39 4F 3C 3B D6 5B E0 C8 5A 6E F1 2C BE 99 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Exmh version 2.6 02/09/2003 iQCVAwUBPn+q71V9A5rVx7XZAQL00QP+OdcOBDqg9sDazdA69mgBvoPjpMgT7OXo BIIl42pqwaQzQNkpbipL/4Zo5J15wP/33HDu9dyh1yL6UXgp4m0ZrLjGg5Gr+bw4 cXanf8wMR/vIvUEyR22bOz8c1CWRsjLjYet2BqQ+FbXxE64nsl/DGaMk6I1zLemh mLvdFZxPWOc= =JOJQ -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Redhat 9.0 coming out April 7th
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Jeff Macdonald <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Or a week earlier if you are a paying RHN customer. Interesting, not > even a point release for Redhat 8.0! So something changed in the build environment that's not backward compatible to 8.x. Maybe the recent updates to glibc? - -- John Abreau / Executive Director, Boston Linux & Unix Email [EMAIL PROTECTED] / WWW http://www.abreau.net / PGP-Key-ID 0xD5C7B5D9 PGP-Key-Fingerprint 72 FB 39 4F 3C 3B D6 5B E0 C8 5A 6E F1 2C BE 99 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Exmh version 2.6 02/09/2003 iQCVAwUBPn+eElV9A5rVx7XZAQJNawQA0dNDQZrVqPc0nQCDF9dUklwUch+p18+5 +fo0G5rG7SyTdG31s9hInJTob52hQdHxekJCpNsntLyNIxxlP+AIWNJhTMwXmfxX /DZjyJXr9YfNTdOimSYeh/y3Uhs0o0e95vcumCM/pcVxeNsaY8mwsKD1FDYULB+V 81pZoZhBnoM= =6gcP -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
RE: Redhat 9.0 coming out April 7th
On Mon, 2003-03-24 at 16:10, Travis Roy wrote: > > Was 8.0 that bad that only another .0 release could fix it? > > That would be my guess.. Their "BlueCurve" thing didn't go over to well.. I hope they keep it. I do believe that another vendor is creating a unified Gnome/KDE desktop. > Plus it can't play or encode MP3s out of the box.. not that it's hard to > fix, but it was annoying. OGG works for me. :-) > 8.0 is also EXTREAMLY bloated. How so? > There were some > things I liked about it, but most of it I didn't. It makes a good > workstation linux, Yes, it is a good workstation, and I think bluecurve helps a lot. > I would never run it as a server, why? Whose dist. would you choose? > and Mandrake makes a > better workstation linux.. at least for the masses. yes, but will they be around the next few years? I've been a long time redhat user, it works for me. This isn't meant to be a flame war, I'm just curious. -- Jeff Macdonald <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Into birding? Check out http://www.migratus.com signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: Redhat 9.0 coming out April 7th
On Mon, Mar 24, 2003 at 03:59:47PM -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > In a message dated: 24 Mar 2003 15:48:05 EST > Jeff Macdonald said: > > >Interesting, not even a point release for Redhat 8.0! > > Why does that scare me :) > > Was 8.0 that bad that only another .0 release could fix it? Bah. I think people were hoping they'd do that with 7. Then again, 7.0 stank enough to only prove the old .0 adage. > Or was 8.0 really that stable? (would be a good thing :) For the most part, yes. It's been a mostly well-behaved for any point release, and especially well-behaved for a .0. > If 8.0 was really that stable, does that mean they're QA'ing things > that much more rigorously? Can we expect RH's release schedule to > now only be .0 releases that are rock solid? Maybe this is so RH can be bought out by AOL. Aren't they at 9 now as well? (psst, ;) -Mark pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
RE: Redhat 9.0 coming out April 7th
> Was 8.0 that bad that only another .0 release could fix it? That would be my guess.. Their "BlueCurve" thing didn't go over to well.. Plus it can't play or encode MP3s out of the box.. not that it's hard to fix, but it was annoying. 8.0 is also EXTREAMLY bloated. There were some things I liked about it, but most of it I didn't. It makes a good workstation linux, I would never run it as a server, and Mandrake makes a better workstation linux.. at least for the masses. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Redhat 9.0 coming out April 7th
In a message dated: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 16:25:31 EST [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: >On Mon, 24 Mar 2003, at 3:59pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >> Was 8.0 that bad that only another .0 release could fix it? > > Again: Red Hat's long-standing policy on version numbers is that the major >number gets bumped when they break binary compatibility. This typically >means a new version of GCC or the GNU C library has been introduced (or >both). Problems (or lack thereof) in previous releases have no direct >influence on this. What their stated policy is and what they actually do are two different things :) I seem to remember a 7.0->7.1 bump with an incompatible compiler problem. I'd classify that as an incompatible binary ;) -- Seeya, Paul -- Key fingerprint = 1660 FECC 5D21 D286 F853 E808 BB07 9239 53F1 28EE It may look like I'm just sitting here doing nothing, but I'm really actively waiting for all my problems to go away. If you're not having fun, you're not doing it right! ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
RE: Redhat 9.0 coming out April 7th
On Mon, 24 Mar 2003, at 4:10pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Their "BlueCurve" thing didn't go over to well.. As far as I have been able to determine, 99% of people really didn't care about BlueCurve. It's a bloody UI theme, for crying out loud. All the noise came from a small but vocal fringe element, and would have been completely ignored if it wasn't for sites like Slashdot and Linux Today posting headlines about it every three seconds. > Plus it can't play or encode MP3s out of the box.. That is a patent issue. The MP3 algorithm is patented; owned by Thomson Multimedia. They recently "clarified" their stance on MP3 licensing, which served to remind everyone of the patented status. Yes, there is that infamous statement on their website about "non-commercial activities". That statement is legally ambiguous for an outfit like Red Hat. Of course, technically speaking, Red Hat has been in violation of their patents for years, but Red Hat took action with 8.0. Unless the situation with Thomson is resolved, I would not expect MP3 to show up in RHL again. (Insert snide remark about Red Hat's history of selective license compliance here.) > 8.0 is also EXTREAMLY bloated. That is a subjective opinion. Given that SuSE (Red Hat's biggest Linux competitor) is at 7 or 8 CDs now, I would expect Red Hat Linux will only get larger. -- Ben Scott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> | The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do | | not represent the views or policy of any other person or organization. | | All information is provided without warranty of any kind. | ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Redhat 9.0 coming out April 7th
On Mon, 24 Mar 2003, at 3:59pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Was 8.0 that bad that only another .0 release could fix it? Again: Red Hat's long-standing policy on version numbers is that the major number gets bumped when they break binary compatibility. This typically means a new version of GCC or the GNU C library has been introduced (or both). Problems (or lack thereof) in previous releases have no direct influence on this. -- Ben Scott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> | The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do | | not represent the views or policy of any other person or organization. | | All information is provided without warranty of any kind. | ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Redhat 9.0 coming out April 7th
In a message dated: 24 Mar 2003 15:48:05 EST Jeff Macdonald said: >Interesting, not even a point release for Redhat 8.0! Why does that scare me :) Was 8.0 that bad that only another .0 release could fix it? Or was 8.0 really that stable? (would be a good thing :) If 8.0 was really that stable, does that mean they're QA'ing things that much more rigorously? Can we expect RH's release schedule to now only be .0 releases that are rock solid? -- Seeya, Paul -- Key fingerprint = 1660 FECC 5D21 D286 F853 E808 BB07 9239 53F1 28EE It may look like I'm just sitting here doing nothing, but I'm really actively waiting for all my problems to go away. If you're not having fun, you're not doing it right! ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
RE: Redhat 9.0 coming out April 7th
It's either a version leap (keep the version number close to other Linux dists).. Why would I buy Linux 8 from this RedHat company when I can get Linux 9 from this other company (I know it's wrong, but people looking at a box and know nothing about linux). Or, it's VERY close to April 1st (for people registered).. could be a joke. The webpage seems kinda lean. Since they're actually trying to get people to pay for this to get it early, I would guess it's the first reason. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Jeff Macdonald Sent: Monday, March 24, 2003 3:48 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Redhat 9.0 coming out April 7th Or a week earlier if you are a paying RHN customer. Interesting, not even a point release for Redhat 8.0! -- Jeff Macdonald <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Into birding? Check out http://www.migratus.com ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
