Re: Fixes needed for Geary search translations

[Anders Jonsson]

Den 2016-06-04 kl. 14:36, skrev Alexandre Franke:
> On Sat, Jun 4, 2016 at 12:34 PM, Anders Jonsson
>  wrote:
>> In that case, is there a bug report for the GNOME Shell case? I
>> searched, but didn't find one.
> You're right that there should be a bug report about that. I filed it.
>
> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=767237

Thanks for filing! Subscribing now. :-)

Indeed it is much better to have the core problem fixed rather than
relying on workarounds.
___
gnome-i18n mailing list
gnome-i18n@gnome.org
https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n

Re: Fixes needed for Geary search translations

[Alexandre Franke]

On Sat, Jun 4, 2016 at 12:34 PM, Anders Jonsson
 wrote:
> In that case, is there a bug report for the GNOME Shell case? I
> searched, but didn't find one.

You're right that there should be a bug report about that. I filed it.

https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=767237

> I myself add English keywords if I find it probable that a user of the
> translated desktop will search for the English terms after having read
> this post:
> https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gnome-i18n/2014-August/msg00012.html

This message says that copying Engilsh keywords will work. Just
because it works doesn't mean it's the right thing to do.

A translation should be exactly that: a translation.

-- 
Alexandre Franke
GNOME Hacker & Foundation Director
___
gnome-i18n mailing list
gnome-i18n@gnome.org
https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n

Re: Fixes needed for Geary search translations

[Anders Jonsson]

Den 2016-06-03 kl. 14:08, skrev Alexandre Franke:
> On Fri, Jun 3, 2016 at 12:18 PM, Anita Reitere  wrote:
>>> That, however, sounds like a good idea. I wish GNOME Shell did the same.
>> For GNOME Shell, translators can make it happen -- by adding
>> translations to the keyword string without removing the original
>> keywords. But in Geary, some developer support might be required.
> That's a workaround and you shouldn't do it.
>

In that case, is there a bug report for the GNOME Shell case? I
searched, but didn't find one.

I myself add English keywords if I find it probable that a user of the
translated desktop will search for the English terms after having read
this post:
https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gnome-i18n/2014-August/msg00012.html
___
gnome-i18n mailing list
gnome-i18n@gnome.org
https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n

Re: Fixes needed for Geary search translations

[Michael Gratton]

Hi Anita,

On Fri, Jun 3, 2016 at 4:02 PM, Anita Reitere  
wrote:
Are you sure that translating these strings is a good idea? We don't 
translate option flags for command-line programs, or formula markup 
in LaTeX or LibreOffice.


True, but the search box is very much part of the end-user UI, rather 
than one of those more technical aspects. I feel that it would be 
similar to not having menu items translated, so seems worthwhile still.


Perhaps it might be possible to support both the original and the 
translated keywords in parallel?


That is the approach I've taken - both the localised and English 
versions will now work. It's also useful since the User Guide isn't as 
widely translated as the UI. So in cases where it hasn't been, at least 
what  the English manual says will still work, and users may discover 
the localised versions through change or word of mouth.


//Mike

--
⊨ Michael Gratton, Percept Wrangler.
⚙ 


___
gnome-i18n mailing list
gnome-i18n@gnome.org
https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n

Re: Fixes needed for Geary search translations

[Michael Gratton]

Hi Ask,

On Thu, Jun 2, 2016 at 9:15 PM, Ask Hjorth Larsen  
wrote:
You can also add an msgctxt to distinguish them. This makes them 
fuzzy.




Ah, that's a good idea, thanks. All of the search operator strings are 
have a context specified now, hopefully they'll be useful for future 
translation work as well.


Translation teams - it would be great if you would have a look at these 
strings, especially on the "geary-0.11" branch so I can do a release 
with a fix for the crasher next week.


Thanks!
//Mike

--
⊨ Michael Gratton, Percept Wrangler.
⚙ 


___
gnome-i18n mailing list
gnome-i18n@gnome.org
https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n

Re: Fixes needed for Geary search translations

[Alexandre Franke]

On Fri, Jun 3, 2016 at 12:18 PM, Anita Reitere  wrote:
>> That, however, sounds like a good idea. I wish GNOME Shell did the same.
>
> For GNOME Shell, translators can make it happen -- by adding
> translations to the keyword string without removing the original
> keywords. But in Geary, some developer support might be required.

That's a workaround and you shouldn't do it.

-- 
Alexandre Franke
GNOME Hacker & Foundation Director
___
gnome-i18n mailing list
gnome-i18n@gnome.org
https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n

Re: Fixes needed for Geary search translations

[Anita Reitere]

> Re-train? So you mean you've been using is:unread in Geary for long
> already? I don't think this argument is relevant here.

Well, I've been using them in Gmail. And someday in the future someone
will have been using them in Geary as well.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on the general idea of
translating function names, markup etc. Luckily, there can be a
compromise in this case :)

> > Perhaps it might be possible to support both the original and the translated
> > keywords in parallel?
>
> That, however, sounds like a good idea. I wish GNOME Shell did the same.

For GNOME Shell, translators can make it happen -- by adding
translations to the keyword string without removing the original
keywords. But in Geary, some developer support might be required.
___
gnome-i18n mailing list
gnome-i18n@gnome.org
https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n

Re: Fixes needed for Geary search translations

[Alexandre Franke]

On Fri, Jun 3, 2016 at 8:02 AM, Anita Reitere  wrote:
> Hi,

Hi,

> Are you sure that translating these strings is a good idea? We don't
> translate option flags for command-line programs, or formula markup in LaTeX
> or LibreOffice.

Function names are localized in LibreOffice. If your LibreOffice is in
French, you would type =somme(A1:A15) instead of =sum(A1:A15).

> It would be pretty frustrating to have to re-train your muscle memory just
> because you've switched the system language.

Re-train? So you mean you've been using is:unread in Geary for long
already? I don't think this argument is relevant here.

> Or to find some advice on the
> internet and wonder why it isn't working for you.

The same argument has been made for translating GNOME application
names (Maps, Boxes, Clocks, Music…). I don't really think it's a
strong one as this would actually not happen that much compared to the
target audience trying to find the application they need in the Shell.
Clocks is Horloges in French, so no similarity whatsoever ; someone
who only speaks French wouldn't be able to find the application if we
didn't translate it.

> Perhaps it might be possible to support both the original and the translated
> keywords in parallel?

That, however, sounds like a good idea. I wish GNOME Shell did the same.

-- 
Alexandre Franke
GNOME Hacker & Foundation Director
___
gnome-i18n mailing list
gnome-i18n@gnome.org
https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n

Re: Fixes needed for Geary search translations

[Anita Reitere]

Hi,

Are you sure that translating these strings is a good idea? We don't
translate option flags for command-line programs, or formula markup in
LaTeX or LibreOffice.

It would be pretty frustrating to have to re-train your muscle memory just
because you've switched the system language. Or to find some advice on the
internet and wonder why it isn't working for you.

Perhaps it might be possible to support both the original and the
translated keywords in parallel?


Best regards,
Anita



On 1 June 2016 at 09:47, Michael Gratton  wrote:

>
> Hi gnome-i18n,
>
> Recently in Geary a search feature was added where people could write a
> searches such as "is:unread" and have it find all unread messages, also
> "is:read" and "is:starred". This is implemented by parsing the string
> separately, i.e. "is:read" is parsed as two separate strings, "is" and
> "read". Obviously these strings were marked for translation in the code so
> people can use their preferred language, but unfortunately we did not add
> any comments about the requirements for these (they should ideally be
> short, and must be a single word, or use '_' or '-' to separate words) and
> so a number were translated as plain phrases instead.
>
> I have gone back and added comments for each string so it is hopefully
> more clear what the translation requirements are, but what's the best
> approach to get these problematic strings fixed? Should I replace them with
> empty strings in the PO files in the git repo so they appear untranslated
> or should I just ask the translation teams to revisit them?
>
> The strings affected are those from both the master and geary-0.11
> branches, in the UI source file "imap-db-account.vala" and ideally should
> also be translated in the User Guide file "search.page" so that people know
> what the correct syntax is.
>
> Since this is related to a crasher bug, I'd like to release 0.11.1
> sometime next week, so it would be great to have the geary-0.11 branch
> updated before then at least.
>
> //Mike
>
> --
> ⊨ Michael Gratton, Percept Wrangler.
> ⚙ 
>
>
> ___
> gnome-i18n mailing list
> gnome-i18n@gnome.org
> https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
>
___
gnome-i18n mailing list
gnome-i18n@gnome.org
https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n

Re: Fixes needed for Geary search translations

[Ask Hjorth Larsen]

You can also add an msgctxt to distinguish them. This makes them fuzzy.

Best regards
Ask
El 02/06/2016 13:13, "Michael Gratton"  escribió:

> On Wed, Jun 1, 2016 at 4:51 PM, Baurzhan Muftakhidinov <
> baurthefi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Mark those messages as fuzzy, and then ask translators to revisit them,
>>
>
> Okay, thanks. So I assume the best way to do that is to simply add a "#,
> fuzzy" to the problematic lines manually and commit them to the git repo,
> so they show up as that on l10n.gnome.org?
>
> On Wed, Jun 1, 2016 at 8:51 PM, Ask Hjorth Larsen 
> wrote:
>
>> To fix the bug, validate the translated string and use the English one if
>> necessary.
>>
>> I think this should always be done when translations have the potential
>> to crash the application, particularly in complex cases like this.
>>
>
> Yep, I agree. That's exactly what I ended up doing.
>
> //Mike
>
> --
> ⊨ Michael Gratton, Percept Wrangler.
> ⚙ 
>
>
> ___
> gnome-i18n mailing list
> gnome-i18n@gnome.org
> https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
>
___
gnome-i18n mailing list
gnome-i18n@gnome.org
https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n

Re: Fixes needed for Geary search translations

[Michael Gratton]

On Wed, Jun 1, 2016 at 4:51 PM, Baurzhan Muftakhidinov 
 wrote:
Mark those messages as fuzzy, and then ask translators to revisit 
them,


Okay, thanks. So I assume the best way to do that is to simply add a 
"#, fuzzy" to the problematic lines manually and commit them to the git 
repo, so they show up as that on l10n.gnome.org?


On Wed, Jun 1, 2016 at 8:51 PM, Ask Hjorth Larsen  
wrote:
To fix the bug, validate the translated string and use the English 
one if necessary.


I think this should always be done when translations have the 
potential to crash the application, particularly in complex cases 
like this.


Yep, I agree. That's exactly what I ended up doing.

//Mike

--
⊨ Michael Gratton, Percept Wrangler.
⚙ 


___
gnome-i18n mailing list
gnome-i18n@gnome.org
https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n

Re: Fixes needed for Geary search translations

[Ask Hjorth Larsen]

Hello

To fix the bug, validate the translated string and use the English one if
necessary.

I think this should always be done when translations have the potential to
crash the application, particularly in complex cases like this.

Best regards
Ask
El 01/06/2016 08:52, "Baurzhan Muftakhidinov" 
escribió:

> Hi,
>
> Mark those messages as fuzzy, and then ask translators to revisit them,
>
> Regards.
>
> On Wed, Jun 1, 2016 at 11:47 AM, Michael Gratton  wrote:
> >
> > Hi gnome-i18n,
> >
> > Recently in Geary a search feature was added where people could write a
> > searches such as "is:unread" and have it find all unread messages, also
> > "is:read" and "is:starred". This is implemented by parsing the string
> > separately, i.e. "is:read" is parsed as two separate strings, "is" and
> > "read". Obviously these strings were marked for translation in the code
> so
> > people can use their preferred language, but unfortunately we did not add
> > any comments about the requirements for these (they should ideally be
> short,
> > and must be a single word, or use '_' or '-' to separate words) and so a
> > number were translated as plain phrases instead.
> >
> > I have gone back and added comments for each string so it is hopefully
> more
> > clear what the translation requirements are, but what's the best
> approach to
> > get these problematic strings fixed? Should I replace them with empty
> > strings in the PO files in the git repo so they appear untranslated or
> > should I just ask the translation teams to revisit them?
> >
> > The strings affected are those from both the master and geary-0.11
> branches,
> > in the UI source file "imap-db-account.vala" and ideally should also be
> > translated in the User Guide file "search.page" so that people know what
> the
> > correct syntax is.
> >
> > Since this is related to a crasher bug, I'd like to release 0.11.1
> sometime
> > next week, so it would be great to have the geary-0.11 branch updated
> before
> > then at least.
> >
> > //Mike
> >
> > --
> > ⊨ Michael Gratton, Percept Wrangler.
> > ⚙ 
> >
> >
> > ___
> > gnome-i18n mailing list
> > gnome-i18n@gnome.org
> > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
> ___
> gnome-i18n mailing list
> gnome-i18n@gnome.org
> https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
>
___
gnome-i18n mailing list
gnome-i18n@gnome.org
https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n

Re: Fixes needed for Geary search translations

[Baurzhan Muftakhidinov]

Hi,

Mark those messages as fuzzy, and then ask translators to revisit them,

Regards.

On Wed, Jun 1, 2016 at 11:47 AM, Michael Gratton  wrote:
>
> Hi gnome-i18n,
>
> Recently in Geary a search feature was added where people could write a
> searches such as "is:unread" and have it find all unread messages, also
> "is:read" and "is:starred". This is implemented by parsing the string
> separately, i.e. "is:read" is parsed as two separate strings, "is" and
> "read". Obviously these strings were marked for translation in the code so
> people can use their preferred language, but unfortunately we did not add
> any comments about the requirements for these (they should ideally be short,
> and must be a single word, or use '_' or '-' to separate words) and so a
> number were translated as plain phrases instead.
>
> I have gone back and added comments for each string so it is hopefully more
> clear what the translation requirements are, but what's the best approach to
> get these problematic strings fixed? Should I replace them with empty
> strings in the PO files in the git repo so they appear untranslated or
> should I just ask the translation teams to revisit them?
>
> The strings affected are those from both the master and geary-0.11 branches,
> in the UI source file "imap-db-account.vala" and ideally should also be
> translated in the User Guide file "search.page" so that people know what the
> correct syntax is.
>
> Since this is related to a crasher bug, I'd like to release 0.11.1 sometime
> next week, so it would be great to have the geary-0.11 branch updated before
> then at least.
>
> //Mike
>
> --
> ⊨ Michael Gratton, Percept Wrangler.
> ⚙ 
>
>
> ___
> gnome-i18n mailing list
> gnome-i18n@gnome.org
> https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
___
gnome-i18n mailing list
gnome-i18n@gnome.org
https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n