Re: [GNC] Need help with a Savings account

[David T. via gnucash-user]

Adrien,

Your willingness to help others in such situations far outstrips my own, and I 
commend you for it. 

I've said it before, but it bears repeating: I think it is better to refer 
users to the documentation first, and address their questions at a later stage, 
for a number of reasons. 

First, a great deal of effort and consideration has gone into creating the 
docs. This information is most likely to be clearer and more accurate than 
anything you or I might write in the moment. 

Second, the content the has been put together by numerous contributors; 
consequently, it encompasses the knowledge and experience of all of them. This 
breadth is important; it means that the docs can answer questions that any 
single individual couldn't. 

Third, referring people to the docs instills the idea of using the 
documentation as primary reference in the user community. This empowers users 
to find their own answers, which I think you'd agree will give them greater 
understanding of GnuCash's capabilities and limitations. 

Finally, referring readers to the docs can result in better docs, as each 
reader can bring their eyes and experience to them and offer their suggestions 
for improvement. 
Best,David 
 
  On Thu, Apr 18, 2019 at 11:26, Adrien 
Monteleone wrote:   David,

I agree, a reading of the Guide would have helped significantly.

Perhaps I should have refrained from personal assistance and commentary and 
simply pointed to the relevant sections. That is likely the better approach, 
especially since the ‘work’ in explaining is already done.

Regards,
Adrien

> On Apr 17, 2019, at 11:57 PM, David T.  wrote:
> 
> Adrien,
> 
> 
> The Guide covers in some detail both the concept of double entry and debits 
> and credits. In fact, some have suggested that the guide goes into too much 
> detail about these concepts. 
> 
> 
> It was the reason I suggested that the recent user consult the documentation, 
> since it explained everything he was asking. 
> 
> 
> David
> 

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[GNC] Installing 3.5 deb packages on Ubuntu 19.04 Disco Dingo

[Adrien Monteleone]

So, I’m jumping a day ahead and I upgraded my Ubuntu Cosmic 18.10 installation 
to 19.04.

Now, attempting to install Stephen’s 3.5 .deb build gets me this:

```
gnucash depends on libboost-date-time1.65.1; however:
  Package libboost-date-time1.65.1 is not installed.
 gnucash depends on libboost-filesystem1.65.1; however:
  Package libboost-filesystem1.65.1 is not installed.
 gnucash depends on libboost-locale1.65.1; however:
  Package libboost-locale1.65.1 is not installed.
 gnucash depends on libboost-regex1.65.1; however:
  Package libboost-regex1.65.1 is not installed.
 gnucash depends on libboost-system1.65.1; however:
  Package libboost-system1.65.1 is not installed.
 gnucash depends on libpython3.6 (>= 3.6.5); however:
  Package libpython3.6 is not installed.
 gnucash depends on libfinance-quote-perl; however:
  Package libfinance-quote-perl is not installed.
 gnucash depends on libhtml-tableextract-perl; however:
  Package libhtml-tableextract-perl is not installed.
 gnucash depends on libcrypt-ssleay-perl; however:
  Package libcrypt-ssleay-perl is not installed.
```

I seem to recall similar errors when I tried the 3.4 package on 18.10. So 
perhaps there is now this odd situation where newer distros which don’t have 
newer GC versions still have to build from source, because the pre-built 
versions are targeting a lower release. (19.04 *does* contain 3.4 however in 
it’s repos)

I was going to fight through the above dependency pasta, but then I saw this 
right after:

```
dpkg: dependency problems prevent configuration of python3-gnucash:
 python3-gnucash depends on libpython3.6 (>= 3.6.5); however:
  Package libpython3.6 is not installed.
 python3-gnucash depends on python3 (<< 3.7); however:
  Version of python3 on system is 3.7.3-1.
```

So my version of python3 is too new? Hmm.. I’m not going to downgrade it. This 
might simply be a specification in the packaging. Maybe building from source 
won’t throw the same errors.

I’m headed to bed, but I might try building from source in the am, just to see 
if the wiki instructions need updating for Disco, unless someone beats me to it.


Regards,
Adrien
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Re: [GNC] Need help with a Savings account

[Adrien Monteleone]

David,

I agree, a reading of the Guide would have helped significantly.

Perhaps I should have refrained from personal assistance and commentary and 
simply pointed to the relevant sections. That is likely the better approach, 
especially since the ‘work’ in explaining is already done.

Regards,
Adrien

> On Apr 17, 2019, at 11:57 PM, David T.  wrote:
> 
> Adrien,
> 
> 
> The Guide covers in some detail both the concept of double entry and debits 
> and credits. In fact, some have suggested that the guide goes into too much 
> detail about these concepts. 
> 
> 
> It was the reason I suggested that the recent user consult the documentation, 
> since it explained everything he was asking. 
> 
> 
> David
> 

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Re: [GNC] Need help with a Savings account

[Adrien Monteleone]

> On Apr 17, 2019, at 11:18 PM, AC  wrote:
> 
> On 2019-04-17 20:00, Adrien Monteleone wrote:
>> And I also agree that the GnuCash defaults of informal labels and Basic View 
>> are much simpler to comprehend.
>> 
>> However, once someone encounters a situation where they don’t understand 
>> ’transfer’ account or the nature of double-entry, problems arise.
>> 
>> They arise because by default, GnuCash is hiding the double-entry nature of 
>> the system from them. (something of a contra-selling point when comparing GC 
>> to proprietary systems that do the same thing, very strange it is the GC 
>> default)
> 
> How is it that using the "informal" labels (not the accounting labels)
> is hiding the double-entry process?  It's fairly formal in everyday use
> that people understand and flows from natural language pretty easily.  I
> "withdraw" money from my bank and use it to make a "payment" to my
> credit card.  I "charge" my card when I go buy gasoline which is an
> "expense". The double entry is there, it's not hidden at all.AC,

Use of informal labels isn’t the part that is hiding the double-entry aspect. 
Use of the Basic View (by default) is doing so.

Basic View only shows you one side of the transaction. (it assumes the other 
side, that is, the register you are in, mind you, I don’t think that assumption 
is unreasonable)

If you continue to use the informal labels, but show the actual splits, you’ll 
get the result in my previous reply - that is, splits with amounts in the 
charge column for a payment and splits with amounts in the payment column for 
charges. Technically, these splits are *not* either charges or payments, they 
are debits or credits.

‘Formal’ and ‘everyday use’ are not the same thing, certainly not in this case. 
(that should be self explanatory, but...)

Yes, you charge your card when you buy gasoline. Do you also make a payment on 
the card at the exact same time *as part of* that charge transaction in order 
for it to balance? No, you don’t.

But GnuCash makes it look like you do — a charge assigned to Liabilities:Credit 
Card and a balancing ‘payment’ assigned to Expenses:Gasoline - that is 
non-sensical, certainly to a newbie.

What you are really doing is crediting your Liabilities:Credit Card and 
debiting your Expenses:Gasoline accounts. THAT makes much more sense than what 
appears to be a ‘payment’ on the card assigned to Expenses:Gasoline. The same 
goes for making an actual payment on the card and seeing a ‘charge’ on the same 
card tied to your bank account.

Go ahead and click the ’split’ button or use Auto-Split Ledger, or Transaction 
Journal while still using the informal labels and you’ll see what I’m talking 
about. Can you honestly tell me it makes sense that each and every transaction 
on your credit card account has *both* payments and charges? Regardless of if 
that transaction was either a payment or charge? Please explain if you do.

The informal labels only have meaning in Basic View. Basic View hides the other 
split in every transaction. (sometimes, there are more than one) If you try to 
figure out what is going wrong when you mis-enter a transaction, GnuCash is not 
helpful, and quite confusing, with either it’s view or it’s labels. (as the 
defaults) And then, only the casual user who only involves one expense account 
per card swipe might avoid seeing the other splits. Buy groceries and bath 
towels at the same time from a big box retailer, see the splits with both 
charges and payments and hold the popcorn for the ensuing mind-mush.

> 
> All of my banks (three) don't even use formal labels for the statements.
> They all write "Deposits" and "Withdrawls" right at the top of the
> transaction logs.  The credit cards I have (six) all write "Charges" and
> "Payments" on the statements.

Your bank statements then, are not showing both entries, but only one side. 
Each of those line items has a debit and a credit in the bank’s books. (and you 
should have the opposite in your books)

Transactions are not single entry. (that is, *either* debit or credit, but 
always BOTH) The use of the Basic View leads one to believe they are, expanding 
the full view of the transaction shows they are not, and the informal labels in 
that context are simply not useful, if not detrimental, to understanding the 
transaction.

Mind you, I didn’t write any of this (or the previous reply) as a complaint, 
critique, or RFE. I’m just hashing out what I see as a problem. Maybe it is all 
in my head, or maybe it is real, but just not frequent enough to bother with...

I don’t have anything more I think I can add, unless someone isn’t 
understanding what I’m describing, in which case, I’ll endeavor take a 
different approach.


Regards,
Adrien
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Re: [GNC] Need help with a Savings account

[David T. via gnucash-user]

Adrien,

The Guide covers in some detail both the concept of double entry and debits and 
credits. In fact, some have suggested that the guide goes into too much detail 
about these concepts. 

It was the reason I suggested that the recent user consult the documentation, 
since it explained everything he was asking. 

David

 
 
  On Thu, Apr 18, 2019 at 8:32, Adrien 
Monteleone wrote:   Colin,

Recent threads showcase this exact scenario — a user didn’t understand 
what GnuCash was doing, (and perhaps to my lesser judgement) I recommended 
turning on BOTH Transaction Journal View and Formal Accounting Labels. 
Unfortunately, only the first was initially accomplished and many list 
exchanges and confusion ensued. Once both changes were made, things improved. 
(with, it seems, still room for better understanding)

Maybe I’m missing something from a long ago thread where this was discussed as 
a design decision. And admittedly, the case doesn’t come up often enough to 
warrant a change in the defaults.

But I do see room for improvement for comprehension, though I’m not sure what 
form it should take, if simply to continue to be addressed on a case-by-case 
basis when a user reaches that stage. Maybe this is something for the wiki?

Maybe there is a better way to explain what GnuCash is doing without resorting 
to an explanation of double-entry, debits/credits, without seeing the whole 
transaction, etc. I’m all for a simple path to the ‘right answer’ or at least 
the ‘most correct answer for right now’ even if it isn’t the ‘most complete 
answer’.

I guess I just don’t see how to explain what is going on, without explaining 
what is going on. (I’m not talking about backend details of the code of course, 
just the basic accounting principles being implemented)

Maybe “I” need to read the docs more often? Perhaps they are doing the job 
already and a simple, but polite version of RT(f)M (even for myself) would 
suffice?

Regards,
Adrien

  
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Re: [GNC] Return of Capital

[John Ralls]

> On Apr 17, 2019, at 8:03 AM, cicko  wrote:
> 
> I'm trying to record the recommended transaction as
> 
> 2019-04-01 * Return of capital
>   Assets:Investments:Broker:Cash 500.00 USD
>   Assets:Investments:Broker:Shares:IPE100 IPE { 5.00 USD} [2000-01-01]
> @ 5.00 USD
>   Assets:Investments:Broker:Shares:IPE   -100 IPE {10.00 USD} [2000-01-01]
> @ 5.00 USD 
> 
> However, GC does not let me do that and reports the transaction as
> unbalanced, even after it adds the balancing split for the Trading Account.

Is IPE the SPDR Barclay's TIPS ETF? Are you sure that you got a return of 
capital and not an ordinary dividend?

Regards,
John Ralls

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Re: [GNC] Need help with a Savings account

[AC]

On 2019-04-17 20:00, Adrien Monteleone wrote:
> And I also agree that the GnuCash defaults of informal labels and Basic View 
> are much simpler to comprehend.
> 
> However, once someone encounters a situation where they don’t understand 
> ’transfer’ account or the nature of double-entry, problems arise.
> 
> They arise because by default, GnuCash is hiding the double-entry nature of 
> the system from them. (something of a contra-selling point when comparing GC 
> to proprietary systems that do the same thing, very strange it is the GC 
> default)

How is it that using the "informal" labels (not the accounting labels)
is hiding the double-entry process?  It's fairly formal in everyday use
that people understand and flows from natural language pretty easily.  I
"withdraw" money from my bank and use it to make a "payment" to my
credit card.  I "charge" my card when I go buy gasoline which is an
"expense". The double entry is there, it's not hidden at all.

All of my banks (three) don't even use formal labels for the statements.
 They all write "Deposits" and "Withdrawls" right at the top of the
transaction logs.  The credit cards I have (six) all write "Charges" and
"Payments" on the statements.



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Re: [GNC] Return of Capital

[Adrien Monteleone]

cicko,

I confess, while I use trading accounts (for PMs) I don’t track stocks, so 
maybe I can’t be of help, but what are you expecting the balancing transaction 
below to be?

I see three splits which appear balanced, one to cash for $500 (presumably 
debit because it is listed as a positive and this is a return of capital), one 
to IPE for $500 (credit/debit? presumably debit since it is positive to an 
asset), another to IPE for $1000 (again, debit/credit? presumably credit since 
it is negative to an asset)

Where does the other split belong and for how much? Could you not enter all the 
splits yourself instead of letting GnuCash guess?

If I’m way off base, please excuse the noise.

Regards,
Adrien


> On Apr 17, 2019, at 10:03 AM, cicko  wrote:
> 
> I'm trying to record the recommended transaction as
> 
> 2019-04-01 * Return of capital
>   Assets:Investments:Broker:Cash 500.00 USD
>   Assets:Investments:Broker:Shares:IPE100 IPE { 5.00 USD} [2000-01-01]
> @ 5.00 USD
>   Assets:Investments:Broker:Shares:IPE   -100 IPE {10.00 USD} [2000-01-01]
> @ 5.00 USD 
> 
> However, GC does not let me do that and reports the transaction as
> unbalanced, even after it adds the balancing split for the Trading Account.


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Re: [GNC] Linux build from source

[J R via gnucash-user]

 
I'm successful installing Stephen's 3.5 on Linux Mint 19.1I just had to install 
last file first, then middle, then first... in the list, otherwise I got a 
dependency errorCopied over xml book from windows, loaded fine,, all the data 
thereWhen I enter a transaction background is black and text is black... cannot 
see, will check out the mint theme I'm using or just copy over my custom gnc 
css from windows
Thank you all for the infoOn Wednesday, April 17, 2019, 8:39:55 PM EDT, 
David Cousens  wrote:  
 
 JR check out the GnuCash wiki page on Building on Linux. The page contents 
were largely derived on LM 18.3 and still work for 19 and 19.1. I'm travelling 
at the moment so I cant provide a link but a search for "Gnucash wiki build on 
linux" should throw it up.

David Cousens (mobile)  
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Re: [GNC] Need help with a Savings account

[Adrien Monteleone]

Colin,

I agree, most people are coming from a place of hearing those terms from the 
institution’s perspective, which confuses many at first.

And I also agree that the GnuCash defaults of informal labels and Basic View 
are much simpler to comprehend.

However, once someone encounters a situation where they don’t understand 
’transfer’ account or the nature of double-entry, problems arise.

They arise because by default, GnuCash is hiding the double-entry nature of the 
system from them. (something of a contra-selling point when comparing GC to 
proprietary systems that do the same thing, very strange it is the GC default)

So, perhaps I am mistaken here, but my usual approach is to advise people to 
delve into double-entry to understand it. Because once you understand it, the 
rest of GC and accounting make so much more sense. (personally, I find this a 
much stronger selling point for GC)

As part of this, I offer the suggestion to turn on either Auto-Split or 
Transaction Journal view so the user can see the entire transaction with 
nothing hidden. The problem with this suggestion is now, in the case of a 
credit card account, the user sees:

DateDescription Account Payment Charge
-   -   -   -   -   

4/1/19  Wal-Mart
Expenses:Clothes$100
Liabilities:Credit Card $100

Of course, this results in mind-mush and brain-explosions, because they didn’t 
make a payment on their card for Expenses:Clothes, they charged it. To them, 
this transaction hasn’t anything to do with payments on the card. (and try 
explaining why every payment on their card account involves a ‘charge’ as well!)

This is either a shortcoming, or bug in the informal label implementation.

So, heading off this confusion, I suggest to also turn on formal accounting 
labels so one always sees ‘debit/credit’ and then proceed to explain what these 
mean.

While the learning curve might seem steeper at first, I think the end result is 
better understanding and ability to use GnuCash.

If GnuCash auto-switched to formal labels when expanding a transaction to show 
splits, that might suffice, but it might also introduce confusion since the 
user would not be warned that column headers would change.

The use of ‘payment’ or ‘charge’ as a balancing column header where no payment 
or charge is involved is non-sensical in this context. (same applies to other 
informal label contexts)

Recent threads showcase this exact scenario — a user didn’t understand what 
GnuCash was doing, (and perhaps to my lesser judgement) I recommended turning 
on BOTH Transaction Journal View and Formal Accounting Labels. Unfortunately, 
only the first was initially accomplished and many list exchanges and confusion 
ensued. Once both changes were made, things improved. (with, it seems, still 
room for better understanding)

Maybe I’m missing something from a long ago thread where this was discussed as 
a design decision. And admittedly, the case doesn’t come up often enough to 
warrant a change in the defaults.

But I do see room for improvement for comprehension, though I’m not sure what 
form it should take, if simply to continue to be addressed on a case-by-case 
basis when a user reaches that stage. Maybe this is something for the wiki?

Maybe there is a better way to explain what GnuCash is doing without resorting 
to an explanation of double-entry, debits/credits, without seeing the whole 
transaction, etc. I’m all for a simple path to the ‘right answer’ or at least 
the ‘most correct answer for right now’ even if it isn’t the ‘most complete 
answer’.

I guess I just don’t see how to explain what is going on, without explaining 
what is going on. (I’m not talking about backend details of the code of course, 
just the basic accounting principles being implemented)

Maybe “I” need to read the docs more often? Perhaps they are doing the job 
already and a simple, but polite version of RT(f)M (even for myself) would 
suffice?

Regards,
Adrien


> On Apr 16, 2019, at 11:32 AM, Colin Law  wrote:
> 
> On Tue, 16 Apr 2019 at 01:14, John Clark via gnucash-user
>  wrote:
>> 
>> Because these terms ‘never make sense’, as seen by this example. It is far 
>> more simpler to just say, money coming in, on the left, money going out on 
>> the right… or is the other way around...
> 
> Money moves from right to left, that is one of the immutable laws of
> natrure (at least in the universe of Gnucash).
> 
> It may have been mentioned before but in Settings > Accounts there is
> a checkbox, Use formal accounting labels.  If you clear that then the
> headings on bank accounts say withdrawal and deposit, and on Credit
> card accounts say Charge and Payment, which I find much easier to cope
> with.
> 
> The reason we have so much trouble with the words debit and credit is
> that

Re: [GNC] Need help with a Savings account

[ToddAndMargo via gnucash-user]

On 4/16/19 9:32 AM, Colin Law wrote:

It may have been mentioned before but in Settings > Accounts there is
a checkbox, Use formal accounting labels.  If you clear that then the
headings on bank accounts say withdrawal and deposit, and on Credit
card accounts say Charge and Payment, which I find much easier to cope
with.


Thank you.  It now makes more sense

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Re: [GNC] Need help with a Savings account

[Adrien Monteleone]

“Debt” and “Debit” are NOT the same thing, despite they are 1 letter apart.

If the balance of your bank account is positive (you have money to spend in it) 
then your opening balance entry in GnuCash should be a debit to that account 
and a credit to `Equity:Opening Balances`.

That isn’t because the bank ‘owes you’ anything, but rather, solely, because 
increasing an asset requires a ‘debit’ entry.

The side of the ledger you use to reflect an increase or decrease is entirely 
dependent on the *type* of account you are dealing with, which is determined by 
the side of the Accounting Equation it lies on.

Regards,
Adrien

> On Apr 17, 2019, at 9:12 PM, ToddAndMargo via gnucash-user 
>  wrote:
> 
> On 4/16/19 1:24 AM, Fred Bone wrote:
>>> So I should switch my opening balance to a negative number?
> 
>> Possibly. It rather depends on whether your account was overdrawn when
>> you started your current books.
> 
> My paper bank book and bank statement shows a positive number.
> 
> They way I am understanding this, they own me a debt, so I
> should enter it as a negative number for opening balance
> because they have a debt to me


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Re: [GNC] Need help with a Savings account

[ToddAndMargo via gnucash-user]

On 4/16/19 5:41 AM, Michael or Penny Novack wrote:

On 4/15/2019 6:11 PM, ToddAndMargo via gnucash-user wrote:

Hi All,

Now that I am feeling brave coming off of creating a charge
card account, I decided to create a saving account.

My bank statement shows deposits as positive numbers and
withdrawals as negative numbers, so I decided to follow suite

Okay, I set the initial test balance to +100.  It shows in
balance as 100.  All is well so far.

Then I put 10 in the debit column of the account, meaning I
withdrew 10 from the account. 


STOP  ask yourself, are you trying to keep books from the point of 
view of yourself of from the point of view of the bank?

What is a positive for the bank is a negative for you and vice versa.

Increases to the account FROM YOUR POINT OF VIEW are debits. Decreases 
are credits. That is because the type of account FROM YOUR POINT OF VIEW 
is an asset. From the bank's point of view, it is a liability (they owe 
you the money in your account) so this is reversed.


We cannot tell if you were right about that "all is well so far" unless 
you tell us whether that was a $100 debit balance of a $100 credit balance.


Michael D Novack


Wonderful description!  Thank you!


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Re: [GNC] Need help with a Savings account

[ToddAndMargo via gnucash-user]

On 4/16/19 1:24 AM, Fred Bone wrote:

So I should switch my opening balance to a negative number?



Possibly. It rather depends on whether your account was overdrawn when
you started your current books.


My paper bank book and bank statement shows a positive number.

They way I am understanding this, they own me a debt, so I
should enter it as a negative number for opening balance
because they have a debt to me


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Re: [GNC] GnuCash V3.5 Not Used By My GnuCash Database

[Adrien Monteleone]

By chance did you manage to install them side-by-side?

How did you install 3.5? (or 3.4 for that matter, as neither is in the 18.04 
repos)

Did you try to intentionally launch 3.5 first, then use File > Open?

I can’t see how in such a case, 3.4 would suddenly launch. (but double-clicking 
the file in Nautilus *might* cause that)

If the file association is wrong and you still have both versions installed 
then just re-assign .gnucash file types to 3.5 to fix it. And/or remove 3.4. 
(note, you might need to re-install 3.5 after removing 3.4 depending on the 
install method as some important dependencies *might* get removed with it.)

Regards,
Adrien

> On Apr 17, 2019, at 8:43 PM, Lawrence Joy via gnucash-user 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hello,I downloaded V3.5 to my Ubuntu 18.04.1 LTS OS but my database comes up 
> in previous V3.4. I thought that this would change automatically. How do I 
> get my database to use V3.5?--Thanks, Larry

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[GNC] GnuCash V3.5 Not Used By My GnuCash Database

[Lawrence Joy via gnucash-user]

Hello,I downloaded V3.5 to my Ubuntu 18.04.1 LTS OS but my database comes up in 
previous V3.4. I thought that this would change automatically. How do I get my 
database to use V3.5?--Thanks, Larry
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Re: [GNC] How to treat benefit payments from government?

[Adrien Monteleone]

In that case, you have a few options:

1. Add a higher top-level ‘income’ type account called ‘Revenue’ and make 
‘Income’ a child of it, then add other non-taxable receipt accounts as children 
of ‘Revenue’
2. Create a regular ‘Income’ account but do not include it as ’taxable’ when 
using the tax report options. You could have a ’Non-Taxable Other Income’ 
account with various children under it to track each type if desired.
3. Create an Equity account to credit against the receipt of actual funds each 
month. This never hits ‘income’ and is beyond taxation considerations. Think of 
it akin to a shareholder’s capital account. Money is added to the entity (in 
this case, you, an individual) but that money is not part of a taxable 
equation, and is still usable by the entity which needs to be balanced against 
declared assets.

By all means, speak to a local CPA before embarking on any of these options for 
the best method advised for your particular situation.

None of the above options are to be deemed as ‘accounting advice’ as to how you 
*should* handle the transaction, but how you *might* handle the transaction 
within GnuCash.

There might be other options I’m not thinking of at the moment. Certainly, 
there are pro’s and con’s to each of the above.

Regards,
Adrien


> On Apr 17, 2019, at 5:53 PM, gn00b  wrote:
> 
> No, these payments are not taxable.

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Re: [GNC] How to treat benefit payments from government?

[R. Victor Klassen]

I generally treat such payments as income, but as its own account.  It isn’t 
taxable, or reportable, so if you care (i.e. if you are going to use your 
GnuCash data in filling in your income taxes, rather than, say downloading your 
T-slips), you want it segregated from other income.  Then I can do an Income 
Statement that does or does not include that account.  If I want to take it to 
the bank - to convince them I am worth lending some money to, I’d want to 
include it, as it increases my income.  Also it’s more complete for my own use. 
 


> On Apr 17, 2019, at 5:37 PM, gn00b  wrote:
> 
> When I file my 2019 personal income tax for income earned in 2018, the
> government will send me a monthly cheque based on my 2018 income. What
> should the credit side of the journal entry look like when I initially
> record this? Should I be treating this as income? I know I should Debit
> Benefit Receivable for the amount. When the government pays me, I know I
> would Debit Bank, Credit Benefit Receivable.
> 
> If anyone is from Canada, this is referring to the Ontario Trillium Benefit
> and the GST/HST Credit.
> 
> 
> 
> --
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Re: [GNC] How to treat benefit payments from government?

[gn00b]

Adrien Monteleone-2 wrote
> Someone on the list from Canada (even better, a local CPA) should offer
> better advice, but the first question you probably want answered is, “Is
> this taxable next year?”
> 
> That will likely influence how you record it now.
> 
> Regards,
> Adrien
> 
>> On Apr 17, 2019, at 4:37 PM, gn00b <

> leo57yeung@

> > wrote:
>> 
>> When I file my 2019 personal income tax for income earned in 2018, the
>> government will send me a monthly cheque based on my 2018 income. What
>> should the credit side of the journal entry look like when I initially
>> record this? Should I be treating this as income? I know I should Debit
>> Benefit Receivable for the amount. When the government pays me, I know I
>> would Debit Bank, Credit Benefit Receivable.
>> 
>> If anyone is from Canada, this is referring to the Ontario Trillium
>> Benefit
>> and the GST/HST Credit.
>> 
> 
> 
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No, these payments are not taxable.



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Re: [GNC] How to treat benefit payments from government?

[Adrien Monteleone]

Someone on the list from Canada (even better, a local CPA) should offer better 
advice, but the first question you probably want answered is, “Is this taxable 
next year?”

That will likely influence how you record it now.

Regards,
Adrien

> On Apr 17, 2019, at 4:37 PM, gn00b  wrote:
> 
> When I file my 2019 personal income tax for income earned in 2018, the
> government will send me a monthly cheque based on my 2018 income. What
> should the credit side of the journal entry look like when I initially
> record this? Should I be treating this as income? I know I should Debit
> Benefit Receivable for the amount. When the government pays me, I know I
> would Debit Bank, Credit Benefit Receivable.
> 
> If anyone is from Canada, this is referring to the Ontario Trillium Benefit
> and the GST/HST Credit.
> 


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Re: [GNC] Zelle

[Adrien Monteleone]

Khristine,

If you are sharing expenses, say you fronted the cash and they are paying you 
back their portion, then you would not record that as income, and you also 
wouldn’t have recorded the original full amount as your expenditure.

You’re merely facilitating payment for someone else.

I have a handful of asset accounts set up for this purpose when my siblings and 
I split holiday and birthday gifts for our parents. I only expense my portion 
and the rest goes to these asset accounts (as money they owe me), which is then 
paid back by my siblings later.

If that is similar to what you are doing and need help with those transactions, 
let us know.

If they are just sending you money to be nice, that is a gift. Track that in an 
Income:Gifts Received account. Taxability will depend on laws in your 
jurisdiction, but many offer a threshold before you have to report them, so it 
is a good idea to keep them separate.

Regards,
Adrien

> On Apr 17, 2019, at 3:05 PM, Derek Atkins  wrote:
> 
> Oh, and also, please remember to CC the list on all replies.
> (I didn't notice until after I hit send).
> 
> -derek
> 
> On Wed, April 17, 2019 4:04 pm, Derek Atkins wrote:
>> It depends why they send it to you.
>> I use Income:Gifts
>> Unless it's being used for something specific.
>> 
>> Treat it the same way you would treat them sending you a check or handing
>> you cash.  How would you record that?  Well, it all depends on WHY they
>> are sending you a check or handing you the cash :)
>> 
>> -derek
>> 
>> On Wed, April 17, 2019 3:59 pm, Khristine Ann Ramella wrote:
>>> Yes, but if a friend sends you money do you label it as Income? I just
>>> used the plain Income category and not what I use for paycheck income so
>>> they would be separate?
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: Derek Atkins 
>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2019 3:56 PM
>>> To: Khristine Ann Ramella 
>>> Cc: gnucash-user@gnucash.org
>>> Subject: Re: [GNC] Zelle
>>> 
>>> I would just treat it the same way I would treat an ATM or Check -- as a
>>> direct transfer between Bank and Income or Expense.
>>> 
>>> -derek
>>> 
>>> On Wed, April 17, 2019 3:51 pm, Khristine Ann Ramella wrote:
 How do you categorize Zelle coming into your account from friends and
 so on?
 
 TY
 
 I did try to search this topic and was unsuccessful.
 
 Sent from Mail for
 Windows
 10
 
 ___


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[GNC] How to treat benefit payments from government?

[gn00b]

When I file my 2019 personal income tax for income earned in 2018, the
government will send me a monthly cheque based on my 2018 income. What
should the credit side of the journal entry look like when I initially
record this? Should I be treating this as income? I know I should Debit
Benefit Receivable for the amount. When the government pays me, I know I
would Debit Bank, Credit Benefit Receivable.

If anyone is from Canada, this is referring to the Ontario Trillium Benefit
and the GST/HST Credit.



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Re: [GNC] Zelle

[Derek Atkins]

Oh, and also, please remember to CC the list on all replies.
(I didn't notice until after I hit send).

-derek

On Wed, April 17, 2019 4:04 pm, Derek Atkins wrote:
> It depends why they send it to you.
> I use Income:Gifts
> Unless it's being used for something specific.
>
> Treat it the same way you would treat them sending you a check or handing
> you cash.  How would you record that?  Well, it all depends on WHY they
> are sending you a check or handing you the cash :)
>
> -derek
>
> On Wed, April 17, 2019 3:59 pm, Khristine Ann Ramella wrote:
>> Yes, but if a friend sends you money do you label it as Income? I just
>> used the plain Income category and not what I use for paycheck income so
>> they would be separate?
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Derek Atkins 
>> Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2019 3:56 PM
>> To: Khristine Ann Ramella 
>> Cc: gnucash-user@gnucash.org
>> Subject: Re: [GNC] Zelle
>>
>> I would just treat it the same way I would treat an ATM or Check -- as a
>> direct transfer between Bank and Income or Expense.
>>
>> -derek
>>
>> On Wed, April 17, 2019 3:51 pm, Khristine Ann Ramella wrote:
>>> How do you categorize Zelle coming into your account from friends and
>>> so on?
>>>
>>> TY
>>>
>>> I did try to search this topic and was unsuccessful.
>>>
>>> Sent from Mail for
>>> Windows
>>> 10
>>>
>>> ___
>>> gnucash-user mailing list
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>>> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
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>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>Derek Atkins 617-623-3745
>>de...@ihtfp.com www.ihtfp.com
>>Computer and Internet Security Consultant
>>
>>
>
>
> --
>Derek Atkins 617-623-3745
>de...@ihtfp.com www.ihtfp.com
>Computer and Internet Security Consultant
>
>


-- 
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   de...@ihtfp.com www.ihtfp.com
   Computer and Internet Security Consultant

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Re: [GNC] Zelle

[Derek Atkins]

I would just treat it the same way I would treat an ATM or Check -- as a
direct transfer between Bank and Income or Expense.

-derek

On Wed, April 17, 2019 3:51 pm, Khristine Ann Ramella wrote:
> How do you categorize Zelle coming into your account from friends and so
> on?
>
> TY
>
> I did try to search this topic and was unsuccessful.
>
> Sent from Mail for Windows
> 10
>
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-- 
   Derek Atkins 617-623-3745
   de...@ihtfp.com www.ihtfp.com
   Computer and Internet Security Consultant

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[GNC] Zelle

[Khristine Ann Ramella]

How do you categorize Zelle coming into your account from friends and so on?

TY

I did try to search this topic and was unsuccessful.

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

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Re: [GNC] Linux build from source

[Ronal B Morse]

As of today, the repository for Ubuntu 19.4 (Disco Dingy) has version 
3.4 of Gnucash in the archive.  Runs like a champ.


RBM



On 4/17/19 8:27 AM, Colin Law wrote:

On Wed, 17 Apr 2019 at 15:16, J R via gnucash-user
 wrote:


Hi, Is there a simple step by step to build from source for ubuntu / Linux mint 
?I'm suprised there is not a version ready to install for ubuntu like with other 
programs I use like, Zoneminder & ChromisPOS


There is a version on Ubuntu, and I presume mint.  It is just not the
latest.  On Ubuntu 18.10 it is 3,3.   It will be 3.4 or possibly 3.5
on Ubuntu 19.04, due for release any day now.

Colin
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Re: [GNC] Linux build from source

[Adrien Monteleone]

Instructions for building are on the wiki. It assumes you know your way around 
the command line and your package manager, but it does hold your hand somewhat. 
If you copy paste the commands and understand your current system, you should 
be fine. (especially if you know how to check if required dependencies are 
installed)

Pre-built versions are only in various distro repositories which get frozen for 
each release and there is no one to add new versions to the respective 
backports repos.

Your other options are to try the .deb you can find on this list, Flatpak, or 
upgrade your distro. (where even the newest repos still only contain 3.4)

Regards,
Adrien

> On Apr 17, 2019, at 9:13 AM, J R via gnucash-user  
> wrote:
> 
> Hi, Is there a simple step by step to build from source for ubuntu / Linux 
> mint ?I'm suprised there is not a version ready to install for ubuntu like 
> with other programs I use like, Zoneminder & ChromisPOS
> I'm running gnc on windows 7 and want to try the linux version
> Thanks

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Re: [GNC] Return of Capital

[cicko]

I'm trying to record the recommended transaction as

2019-04-01 * Return of capital
   Assets:Investments:Broker:Cash 500.00 USD
   Assets:Investments:Broker:Shares:IPE100 IPE { 5.00 USD} [2000-01-01]
@ 5.00 USD
   Assets:Investments:Broker:Shares:IPE   -100 IPE {10.00 USD} [2000-01-01]
@ 5.00 USD 

However, GC does not let me do that and reports the transaction as
unbalanced, even after it adds the balancing split for the Trading Account.



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Re: [GNC] Linux build from source

[Colin Law]

On Wed, 17 Apr 2019 at 15:39, J R via gnucash-user
 wrote:
>
>  Thanks, I'm using Linux Mint 19.1, it has been a good learning transition 
> from windowsWould like to stick with GNC 3.5+

If you switch to Ubuntu 18.04 or later you can install using the deb
files provided by Stephen.  Support for Ubuntu is a lot better than
Mint in my experience.

Colin

> On Wednesday, April 17, 2019, 10:28:06 AM EDT, Colin Law 
>  wrote:
>
>  On Wed, 17 Apr 2019 at 15:16, J R via gnucash-user
>  wrote:
> >
> > Hi, Is there a simple step by step to build from source for ubuntu / Linux 
> > mint ?I'm suprised there is not a version ready to install for ubuntu like 
> > with other programs I use like, Zoneminder & ChromisPOS
>
> There is a version on Ubuntu, and I presume mint.  It is just not the
> latest.  On Ubuntu 18.10 it is 3,3.  It will be 3.4 or possibly 3.5
> on Ubuntu 19.04, due for release any day now.
>
> Colin
>
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Re: [GNC] Linux build from source

[J R via gnucash-user]

 Thanks, I'm using Linux Mint 19.1, it has been a good learning transition from 
windowsWould like to stick with GNC 3.5+
On Wednesday, April 17, 2019, 10:28:06 AM EDT, Colin Law 
 wrote:  
 
 On Wed, 17 Apr 2019 at 15:16, J R via gnucash-user
 wrote:
>
> Hi, Is there a simple step by step to build from source for ubuntu / Linux 
> mint ?I'm suprised there is not a version ready to install for ubuntu like 
> with other programs I use like, Zoneminder & ChromisPOS

There is a version on Ubuntu, and I presume mint.  It is just not the
latest.  On Ubuntu 18.10 it is 3,3.  It will be 3.4 or possibly 3.5
on Ubuntu 19.04, due for release any day now.

Colin
  
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Re: [GNC] Linux build from source

[Colin Law]

On Wed, 17 Apr 2019 at 15:16, J R via gnucash-user
 wrote:
>
> Hi, Is there a simple step by step to build from source for ubuntu / Linux 
> mint ?I'm suprised there is not a version ready to install for ubuntu like 
> with other programs I use like, Zoneminder & ChromisPOS

There is a version on Ubuntu, and I presume mint.  It is just not the
latest.  On Ubuntu 18.10 it is 3,3.   It will be 3.4 or possibly 3.5
on Ubuntu 19.04, due for release any day now.

Colin
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[GNC] Linux build from source

[J R via gnucash-user]

Hi, Is there a simple step by step to build from source for ubuntu / Linux mint 
?I'm suprised there is not a version ready to install for ubuntu like with 
other programs I use like, Zoneminder & ChromisPOS
I'm running gnc on windows 7 and want to try the linux version
Thanks
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Re: [GNC] Column Width

[Justin Mathew via gnucash-user]

GnuCash 3.5 complied from source into Bunsenlabs Helium (Debian Stretch).


-
Regards,
Justin Mathew
mjus...@protonmail.com

Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email.

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On Wednesday, April 17, 2019 7:00 PM, Derek Atkins  wrote:

> Justin Mathew mjus...@protonmail.com writes:
>
> > Michael,
> >
> > > If you type only DD then  to the next field, it will assume the
> > > current month and year.
> >
> > This works.
> >
> > > If you type DD/MM and  you’ll get the current year.
>
> Actually, there is a preference here where if you type DD/MM and tab
> out, it will choose from a 12-month rolling window to select the year.
> So right now, on April 17th, 2019, if I type 12/31  it would input
> 12/31/2018.
>
> > I can't type in the character / or - for that matter.
>
> What version of GnuCash?
> What OS/Distro?
>
> -derek
>
> ---
>
>Derek Atkins 617-623-3745
>de...@ihtfp.com www.ihtfp.com
>Computer and Internet Security Consultant
>


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Re: [GNC] Debian Files for GnuCash 3.4-x

[Justin Mathew via gnucash-user]

I am using 3.5 in Debian Stretch: compiled it from source.

It's not walk in the park, but if you are interested I can share some info.


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Justin Mathew
mjus...@protonmail.com

Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email.

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On Wednesday, April 17, 2019 6:39 PM, boldstripe  
wrote:

> I would prefer to wait until my distribution updates to 3.5 (have had
> problems trying to build from source in the past). Debian testing is already
> on 3.4, so it is hopefully just a matter of time.
>
>
> --
>
> Sent from: http://gnucash.1415818.n4.nabble.com/GnuCash-User-f1415819.html
>
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Re: [GNC] Column Width

[Derek Atkins]

Justin Mathew  writes:

> Michael,
>
>> If you type only DD then  to the next field, it will assume the
>> current month and year.
>
> This works.
>
>> If you type DD/MM and  you’ll get the current year.

Actually, there is a preference here where if you type DD/MM and tab
out, it will choose from a 12-month rolling window to select the year.
So right now, on April 17th, 2019, if I type 12/31  it would input
12/31/2018.

> I can't type in the character / or - for that matter.

What version of GnuCash?
What OS/Distro?

-derek
-- 
   Derek Atkins 617-623-3745
   de...@ihtfp.com www.ihtfp.com
   Computer and Internet Security Consultant
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Re: [GNC] Debian Files for GnuCash 3.4-x

[boldstripe]

I would prefer to wait until my distribution updates to 3.5 (have had
problems trying to build from source in the past). Debian testing is already
on 3.4, so it is hopefully just a matter of time.



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Re: [GNC] Column Width

[David T. via gnucash-user]

Readers might like to consult:
https://cvs.gnucash.org/docs/C/gnucash-guide/txns-shortcuts1.html 


Additionally, the behavior of the register columns (and in particular the 
Description and Balance columns) is described at:
https://www.gnucash.org/docs/v3/C/gnucash-guide/basics-running-gnucash.html#basics-register2
 


David

> On Apr 17, 2019, at 5:05 PM, Justin Mathew via gnucash-user 
>  wrote:
> 
> Michael,
> 
>> If you type only DD then  to the next field, it will assume the current 
>> month and year.
> 
> This works.
> 
>> If you type DD/MM and  you’ll get the current year.
> 
> I can't type in the character / or - for that matter.
> 
> 
> -
> Regards,
> Justin Mathew
> mjus...@protonmail.com
> 
> Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email.
> 
> ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
> On Wednesday, April 17, 2019 4:59 PM, Michael Hendry 
>  wrote:
> 
>>> On 17 Apr 2019, at 11:48, Justin Mathew via gnucash-user 
>>> gnucash-user@gnucash.org wrote:
>>> Is there any way to enter dates from keyboard? Eg, if you have to enter a 
>>> record for past dates, you have to choose the dates from the drop down 
>>> calendar. Any format that I can type to get the dates?
>>> 
>>> -
>>> 
>>> Regards,
>>> Justin Mathew
>>> mjus...@protonmail.com
>> 
>> Just type it, in the form DD/MM/YY
>> 
>> If you type only DD then  to the next field, it will assume the current 
>> month and year.
>> 
>> If you type DD/MM and  you’ll get the current year.
>> 
>> Michael
> 
> 
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[GNC] Return of Capital

[cicko]

Hi,

I'm trying to run some reports with ledger but have hit the wall at the very
beginning. The return-of-capital transactions are reported as invalid.
I'm following the instructions for recording this type of transaction and
the $ amount goes from IPE account to Cash. Unfortunately, ledger does not
accept the total cost to be negative so the record is exported like this:

2018/04/09 return of capital
Assets:Investments:Broker:Cash
79.61 AUD
Trading:ASX:IPE   0. IPE @@ 79.61 
AUD
Assets:Investments:Broker:Shares:IPE 0. IPE @@ 79.61 AUD
Trading:CURRENCY:AUD
-79.61 AUD

Ref: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/ledger-cli/Y9jwyiBi97E

Obviously, this does not balance. 
There is also another issue, which is a real question for this group: 

In Trading:ASX:IPE there are now transactions for shares (IPE), when
purchased/sold, as well as for return of capital in AU$. This is kinda
confusing. The AU$ amounts don't affect the balance but is it really meant
to be done this way?



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Re: [GNC] Column Width

[Justin Mathew via gnucash-user]

Michael,

> If you type only DD then  to the next field, it will assume the current 
> month and year.

This works.

> If you type DD/MM and  you’ll get the current year.

I can't type in the character / or - for that matter.


-
Regards,
Justin Mathew
mjus...@protonmail.com

Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email.

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On Wednesday, April 17, 2019 4:59 PM, Michael Hendry  
wrote:

> > On 17 Apr 2019, at 11:48, Justin Mathew via gnucash-user 
> > gnucash-user@gnucash.org wrote:
> > Is there any way to enter dates from keyboard? Eg, if you have to enter a 
> > record for past dates, you have to choose the dates from the drop down 
> > calendar. Any format that I can type to get the dates?
> >
> > -
> >
> > Regards,
> > Justin Mathew
> > mjus...@protonmail.com
>
> Just type it, in the form DD/MM/YY
>
> If you type only DD then  to the next field, it will assume the current 
> month and year.
>
> If you type DD/MM and  you’ll get the current year.
>
> Michael


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Re: [GNC] Column Width

[Michael Hendry]

> On 17 Apr 2019, at 11:48, Justin Mathew via gnucash-user 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> Is there any way to enter dates from keyboard? Eg, if you have to enter a 
> record for past dates, you have to choose the dates from the drop down 
> calendar. Any format that I can type to get the dates?
> 
> 
> -
> Regards,
> Justin Mathew
> mjus...@protonmail.com

Just type it, in the form DD/MM/YY

If you type only DD then  to the next field, it will assume the current 
month and year.

If you type DD/MM and  you’ll get the current year.

Michael

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Re: [GNC] Column Width

[Justin Mathew via gnucash-user]

Gareth,

Checkout Derek Atkin's reply. You can resize all columns. Resizing description 
column in the end will fit the register to the screen width.


-
Regards,
Justin Mathew
mjus...@protonmail.com

Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email.

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On Wednesday, April 17, 2019 4:16 PM, Gareth Davies 
 wrote:

> Thanks Guys,
>
> I will give it’s try when I get home. It’s strange that you can resize some 
> of the columns, but not all of them.
>
> Regards,
> Gareth
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On 17 Apr 2019, at 11:42 am, Derek Atkins de...@ihtfp.com wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > > On Wed, April 17, 2019 6:29 am, Justin Mathew via gnucash-user wrote:
> > > I am wondering about this same thing as well.
> > > If you expand the width by double clicking on the edge of the column, it
> > > adjusts to it's width but at the expense of the spreadsheet shifting right
> > > of the fold.
> >
> > Yes, and then you can reduce the size of the Description field.
> > The Description field will ALWAYS auto-expand to fill the window size, but
> > it will not auto-reduce. So you need to expand the list beyond the window
> > (so the scrollbar appears) and only then can you reduce the description
> > field size.
> >
> > > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
> > > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
> >
> > -derek
> > --
> > Derek Atkins 617-623-3745
> > de...@ihtfp.com www.ihtfp.com
> > Computer and Internet Security Consultant


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Re: [GNC] Column Width

[Justin Mathew via gnucash-user]

Thanks Derek,

> Yes, and then you can reduce the size of the Description field.
>
> The Description field will ALWAYS auto-expand to fill the window size, but
> it will not auto-reduce. So you need to expand the list beyond the window
> (so the scrollbar appears) and only then can you reduce the description
> field size.

Got it.

Is there any way to enter dates from keyboard? Eg, if you have to enter a 
record for past dates, you have to choose the dates from the drop down 
calendar. Any format that I can type to get the dates?


-
Regards,
Justin Mathew
mjus...@protonmail.com

Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email.

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On Wednesday, April 17, 2019 4:12 PM, Derek Atkins  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> On Wed, April 17, 2019 6:29 am, Justin Mathew via gnucash-user wrote:
>
> > I am wondering about this same thing as well.
> > If you expand the width by double clicking on the edge of the column, it
> > adjusts to it's width but at the expense of the spreadsheet shifting right
> > of the fold.
>
> Yes, and then you can reduce the size of the Description field.
>
> The Description field will ALWAYS auto-expand to fill the window size, but
> it will not auto-reduce. So you need to expand the list beyond the window
> (so the scrollbar appears) and only then can you reduce the description
> field size.
>
> > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
> > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
>
> -derek
>
> -
>
>Derek Atkins 617-623-3745
>de...@ihtfp.com www.ihtfp.com
>Computer and Internet Security Consultant
>


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Re: [GNC] Column Width

[Gareth Davies via gnucash-user]

Thanks Guys, 

I will give it’s try when I get home. It’s strange that you can resize some of 
the columns, but not all of them. 

Regards,
Gareth
Sent from my iPhone

> On 17 Apr 2019, at 11:42 am, Derek Atkins  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
>> On Wed, April 17, 2019 6:29 am, Justin Mathew via gnucash-user wrote:
>> I am wondering about this same thing as well.
>> 
>> If you expand the width by double clicking on the edge of the column, it
>> adjusts to it's width but at the expense of the spreadsheet shifting right
>> of the fold.
> 
> Yes, and then you can reduce the size of the Description field.
> 
> The Description field will ALWAYS auto-expand to fill the window size, but
> it will not auto-reduce.  So you need to expand the list beyond the window
> (so the scrollbar appears) and only then can you reduce the description
> field size.
> 
>> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
>> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
> 
> -derek
> 
> -- 
>   Derek Atkins 617-623-3745
>   de...@ihtfp.com www.ihtfp.com
>   Computer and Internet Security Consultant
> 

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Re: [GNC] Column Width

[Justin Mathew via gnucash-user]

Jeff,

> Double-click the centre of the column header.

That's much better than double clicking on the edge of each column. Thanks.


-
Regards,
Justin Mathew
mjus...@protonmail.com

Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email.

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On Wednesday, April 17, 2019 4:11 PM, Jeff Abrahamson  wrote:

> Double-click the centre of the column header.
>
> This may very well be a function of your OS, however, since gnucash is
> written on toolboxes that behave slightly differently depending on
> context.  In my context, ubuntu linus (and 2.6, in case that matters),
> this works.
>
> Jeff Abrahamson
> https://www.p27.eu/jeff/
> https://www.transport-nantes.com/
>
> On 17/04/2019 12:29, Justin Mathew via gnucash-user wrote:
>
> > I am wondering about this same thing as well.
> > If you expand the width by double clicking on the edge of the column, it 
> > adjusts to it's width but at the expense of the spreadsheet shifting right 
> > of the fold.
> >
> > -
> >
> > Regards,
> > Justin Mathew
> > mjus...@protonmail.com
> > Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email.
> > ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
> > On Wednesday, April 17, 2019 3:55 PM, Gareth Davies via gnucash-user 
> > gnucash-user@gnucash.org wrote:
> >
> > > Hi
> > > Is there an easy way of resizing the width of the columns, especially the 
> > > transaction one. When I try to drag the column width across it just 
> > > springs back.
> > > Gareth
> > > Sent from my iPhone
> > > gnucash-user mailing list
> > > gnucash-user@gnucash.org
> > > To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
> > > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
> > > If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see 
> > > https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information.
> > >
> > > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
> > > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
> >
> > gnucash-user mailing list
> > gnucash-user@gnucash.org
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> >
> > -
> >
> > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
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>
> --
>
> Jeff Abrahamson
> +33 6 24 40 01 57
> +44 7920 594 255
> https://www.p27.eu/jeff/
> https://www.transport-nantes.com/


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Re: [GNC] Column Width

[Derek Atkins]

Hi,

On Wed, April 17, 2019 6:29 am, Justin Mathew via gnucash-user wrote:
> I am wondering about this same thing as well.
>
> If you expand the width by double clicking on the edge of the column, it
> adjusts to it's width but at the expense of the spreadsheet shifting right
> of the fold.

Yes, and then you can reduce the size of the Description field.

The Description field will ALWAYS auto-expand to fill the window size, but
it will not auto-reduce.  So you need to expand the list beyond the window
(so the scrollbar appears) and only then can you reduce the description
field size.

> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.

-derek

-- 
   Derek Atkins 617-623-3745
   de...@ihtfp.com www.ihtfp.com
   Computer and Internet Security Consultant

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Re: [GNC] Column Width

[Jeff Abrahamson]

Double-click the centre of the column header.

This may very well be a function of your OS, however, since gnucash is
written on toolboxes that behave slightly differently depending on
context.  In my context, ubuntu linus (and 2.6, in case that matters),
this works.

Jeff Abrahamson
https://www.p27.eu/jeff/
https://www.transport-nantes.com/


On 17/04/2019 12:29, Justin Mathew via gnucash-user wrote:
> I am wondering about this same thing as well.
>
> If you expand the width by double clicking on the edge of the column, it 
> adjusts to it's width but at the expense of the spreadsheet shifting right of 
> the fold.
>
>
> -
> Regards,
> Justin Mathew
> mjus...@protonmail.com
>
> Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email.
>
> ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
> On Wednesday, April 17, 2019 3:55 PM, Gareth Davies via gnucash-user 
>  wrote:
>
>> Hi
>> Is there an easy way of resizing the width of the columns, especially the 
>> transaction one. When I try to drag the column width across it just springs 
>> back.
>> Gareth
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
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Re: [GNC] Column Width

[Justin Mathew via gnucash-user]

I am wondering about this same thing as well.

If you expand the width by double clicking on the edge of the column, it 
adjusts to it's width but at the expense of the spreadsheet shifting right of 
the fold.


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Justin Mathew
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‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On Wednesday, April 17, 2019 3:55 PM, Gareth Davies via gnucash-user 
 wrote:

> Hi
> Is there an easy way of resizing the width of the columns, especially the 
> transaction one. When I try to drag the column width across it just springs 
> back.
> Gareth
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
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[GNC] Column Width

[Gareth Davies via gnucash-user]

Hi
Is there an easy way of resizing the width of the columns, especially the 
transaction one. When I try to drag the column width across it just springs 
back. 
Gareth

Sent from my iPhone
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Re: [GNC] I can't see above the current widow

[Adrien Monteleone]

> On Apr 17, 2019, at 4:24 AM, Jonathan Silvey  
> wrote:
> 
> For some reason, I cannot go above the top line of a window.

What do you mean by "cannot go above the top line of a window?” Go above it 
how? What are you expecting to see? What are you referring to as the ’top line’?


> 
> Two possible clues are that the Accounts totals are correct, so the
> information is there somewhere. But when I add a Description which I have
> used many times before (but not in the current window), the Description is
> treated as though I’ve never used it before, ie I have to type the whole
> entry.

If you use a description in one account register, it is *not* remembered for 
auto-fill in a different account register. That is a per-account thing.

So if you enter a transaction with a description ‘Wal-Mart’ in your Cash 
account, then later open your credit card account and start another transaction 
with description ‘Wal-Mart’, GnuCash will *not* autofill the info from what you 
entered in the Cash account.

Regards,
Adrien
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[GNC] I can't see above the current widow

[Jonathan Silvey]

For some reason, I cannot go above the top line of a window. I have been
through the Preferences and Help pages without success.

Two possible clues are that the Accounts totals are correct, so the
information is there somewhere. But when I add a Description which I have
used many times before (but not in the current window), the Description is
treated as though I’ve never used it before, ie I have to type the whole
entry.

I use Gnucash 2.6.3 on Windows 10.


Jonathan
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Re: [GNC] Gnucash Price updating

[ronjnk]

No problem David. I fully understand the problems you folks have to deal 
with and fortunately, I simply need to track a bunch of mutual funds, 
Once a month or once a quarter to manually update will be fine for now. 
I'm sticking with Gnucash.


No need to get back to me but I'm pretty sure I have the yahoo:Finance 
modules installed and although I selected Yahoo JSON, and a bunch of 
other drop down selections, nothing worked which surprised me. 
Alphavantage was not an option even when I upgraded to a much newer 
version.


Anyway, thank you and I wish you the best!

Ron


On 04/16/2019 09:41 AM, David Carlson wrote:

Ronjnk,

Updating stock prices has never been as trivial as we wish it to be in 
Gnucash.


It is necessary to decide which stocks we want to follow, then go 
through several steps , including using the security editor for each 
one to define what source to get the price from, using the price 
editor on each to choose whether to include it in the update session,  
setting up finance:quote module with the configuration details to 
perform updates, and finally manually starting the process whenever 
the prices are wanted.


Then it doesn't go smoothly so there is a tedious process to resolve 
whatever part did not work as desired.


Even manually using the price editor to manually search through the 
list of stocks and add selected prices one at a time is a major headache.


It is enough to drive a person to use a different program altogether 
to track their stocks, and there are some out there.  Even a couple of 
free ones that are far easier to use.

You could Google stock price trackers to see what you find.

I personally just get prices once a month or once a quarter in 
GnuCash,  and use a different program to track day to day so I can 
talk intelligently with my broker.


GnuCash just doesn't track stocks as a feature.

David Carlson

On Tue, Apr 16, 2019, 5:12 AM ronjnk > wrote:


Hello David,

Just a final note. Again, thank you for your help. I'm going to
give up
at this point and update prices manually. I don't want to be going
into
the terminal to get my software to work. Much too complicated. I
understand the developers count on a reliable price quote and when
Yahoo
changes on a whim, it ruins everything and drives the developers
crazy.
Gnucash is a fantastic program and I thank all developers who work on
it. Hopefully on some future version, it will all work again as it
has
in the past. All the best!

Ron


On 04/11/2019 12:33 PM, David T. wrote:
> You don’t tell us; are you using Yahoo! as your price source?
Yahoo! dismembered its quote source website a while back, and
GnuCash users have had to seek out other sources. One source is
AlphaVantage, while another is “Yahoo! as JSON”. If you set up
your accounts to use one of these (preferably the latter), do you
still get the errors?
>
> Note: you will need Finance::Quote verson 1.47; if you want to
use AlphaVantage, there are instructions on the wiki; I believe
that the FAQ has links to the instructions.
>
> David
>
>> On Apr 10, 2019, at 6:08 PM, ronjnk mailto:ron...@xplornet.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Hello to all. I have GnuCash 2.6.15 installed on my MX18 and
all works fine
>> except the Get quotes price updater. I get an error message
"There was an
>> unknown error while retrieving the price quotes." I've toyed
with this for
>> hours and installed everything I could find on the net to no avail.
>>
>> I can see the finance quote module load at start up but I
cannot get a box
>> to show up to even change my data source. I am a user from long
ago and the
>> program is awesome and the price updater has worked in years
past. This is a
>> new computer and new OS install but I'v tried to confirm I have
all modules
>> installed and as far as I know, everything is in place but
won't work.
>>
>> I also upgraded to a much newer version and not only didn't
price updater
>> not work, the new asset values was completely different from
the older
>> version. I lost money. So I uninstalled and went back to this
older version.
>> Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. I am manually
updating about a
>> dozen quotes.
>>
>> Thank you! Ron
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Sent from:
http://gnucash.1415818.n4.nabble.com/GnuCash-User-f1415819.html
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Re: [GNC] [GNC-dev] Recording dividend payoffs

[Justin Mathew via gnucash-user]

Maf,

> Forget that bit. must have still been waking up. it is 2 separate txns on 3
> accounts

Yes, 2 records on 3 accounts. and Dividend Declarations register will always be 
minus as stated in my prev email.

This is because Dividend Declarations only take money out of the business. 
There is no money coming in. That minus doesn't affect anything. And when the 
balance is generated this debit is balanced.



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Justin Mathew
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Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email.

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On Wednesday, April 17, 2019 1:46 PM, Maf. King  wrote:

> On Wednesday, 17 April 2019 08:51:00 BST Maf. King wrote:
>
> > Said text goes on to explain that the act of declaring a dividend to be
> > payable creates a liability account on the company. When dividends are
> > paid, that liability account is cleared from equity:retained Earnings
> > (presumably company bank balance also reduces, but I haven't thought at
> > length about what the 4th balancing account would be in a GC txn).
>
> Forget that bit. must have still been waking up. it is 2 separate txns on 3
> accounts
>
> Maf.
>
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Re: [GNC] [GNC-dev] Recording dividend payoffs

[Maf. King]

On Wednesday, 17 April 2019 08:51:00 BST Maf. King wrote:

> Said text goes on to explain that the act of declaring a dividend to be
> payable creates a liability account on the company.  When dividends are
> paid, that liability account is cleared from equity:retained Earnings
> (presumably company bank balance also reduces, but I haven't thought at
> length about what the 4th balancing account would be in a GC txn).
> 

Forget that bit.  must have still been waking up.  it is 2 separate txns on 3 
accounts

Maf.




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Re: [GNC] Recording dividend payoffs

[Justin Mathew via gnucash-user]

David,

Thanks for joining the conversation.

> If you make the Dividends Declared account a child account of Retained
> Earnings ,i.e a contra account in accounting terms, any dividend amounts
> will be automatically deducted from Retained Earnings as suggested on the
> following site.
> https://www.accountingcoach.com/blog/recording-dividend-payment.

It does, except on GnuCash. Because GnuCash calculates Retained Earnings as 
Total income - Total Expense (which is nothing but net income). See attached 
screenshots.

> They also
> describe an alternative approach using an Expense: Divdends Declared to
> record the declaration and this is closed to Retained Earnings at EoY
> achieving the result you were after.

This is not technically right. Dividends aren't Expenses. Recording dividends 
as Expenses do not decrease the Equity. Dividend payoffs should decrease equity.

-
Regards,
Justin Mathew
mjus...@protonmail.com

Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email.

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On Wednesday, April 17, 2019 1:35 PM, David Cousens  
wrote:

> Justin,
>
> If you make the Dividends Declared account a child account of Retained
> Earnings ,i.e a contra account in accounting terms, any dividend amounts
> will be automatically deducted from Retained Earnings as suggested on the
> following site.
> https://www.accountingcoach.com/blog/recording-dividend-payment. They also
> describe an alternative approach using an Expense: Divdends Declared to
> record the declaration and this is closed to Retained Earnings at EoY
> achieving the result you were after.
>
> David Cousens
>
>
> -
>
> David Cousens
>
> --
>
> Sent from: http://gnucash.1415818.n4.nabble.com/GnuCash-User-f1415819.html
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Re: [GNC] Recording dividend payoffs

[David Cousens]

Justin,

If you make the Dividends Declared account a child account of Retained
Earnings ,i.e a contra account in accounting terms, any dividend amounts
will be automatically deducted from Retained Earnings as suggested on the
following site.
https://www.accountingcoach.com/blog/recording-dividend-payment. They also
describe an alternative approach using an Expense: Divdends Declared to
record the declaration and this is closed to Retained Earnings at EoY
achieving the result you were after.

David Cousens



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Re: [GNC] [GNC-dev] Recording dividend payoffs

[Justin Mathew via gnucash-user]

Chris,


> Or are we talking about Dividends whereby the individual (has shares in 
> companies) receives money from these shares? This one is Income:Dividends to 
> Asset:Bank and gets wound up into Retained Earnings after closing books.

This isn't what I am talking about. A company can own share in other companies 
just as a person can. As you very rightly  mentioned, this is Income of the 
company/person. Hence Income:Dividends to Asset:Bank.

> Justin are you talking about Dividends whereby the business owner (with 
> shareholders) sends monies to shareholders? I don't know how to book these 
> transactions. Asset:Bank -> Expenses:Dividends?

Yes, this is what I am talking about - profit share to owners/shareholders. And 
such payments aren't technically expenses. It's wrong to put them under expense 
even though that's what we are doing now. Dividends are money that goes out of 
the company account as a return of shareholder's investment. So dividends are 
decrease in Retained Earnings or Equity account; it is not an expense even 
though the money is going out.

> Or a combined one whereby the Company Owner (has full, or partial shares in 
> company) decides to issue dividends, and pays himself and other shareholders 
> a dividend? (Asset:Business:Bank -> Asset:Personal:Bank) ???

Even in this case, there are pay offs that goes to himself and other 
shareholders. So yes, this is also the dividend in question.

The transaction that you make here is from your business bank to other personal 
banks accounts of yourself and/or shareholders. It is unwise to include any 
personal banking accounts in the business account, it messes up your company's 
assets. If it's sole proprietorship, this is fine. But if it's a business of 
legal standing (all small businesses are), including personal assets in GnuCash 
company accounts just imbalances the company's total assets. You can create 
another account for that File>New File. There should be no Asset:Personal:Bank 
account in a company book.

Let me share how dividends are recorded (irrespective of size of the company) 
in real world. Quit honestly it's not rocket science. But explaining it is 
pretty difficult. I'll try.

You record two transaction in double entry system for dividends payoffs:

a) When the dividends are declared, there is a new liability in the company and 
you record that by debiting (decreasing) Retained Earnings and crediting 
(increasing) Liability.

Retained Earnings | Description | Corresponding journal | Debit | Credit | 
Balance

Date | Dividends to be paid to shareholder(s) | Liabilities:Dividends Payable | 
$125,000 | - | -$125,000


b) When the dividends are paid, there is no more liability and the money 
decreases in bank account. You record that debiting (decreasing) Liability and 
crediting (decreasing) Current account.

Dividends Payable | Description | Corresponding journal | Debit | Credit | 
Balance

Date | Dividends paid to shareholder(s) | Assets:Current Account | $125,000 | - 
| 0.00


Since most businesses don't close their books because it's more convenient to 
continue and their legislation allows it, it's hard to credit Retailed Earnings 
account in Equity. Also, it's technically not right to only debit Retailed 
Earnings and not credit it. It'll always be in minus.

Secondly, there is another 'Retained Earnings' that appear in balance sheet 
which shows the net income. So two Retained Earnings in the balance sheet is 
just unnecessary.

To fix this, we can use another account called 'Dividends Declared' under 
Equity instead of Retained Earnings and you'll record it here when dividends 
are declared,

Dividends Declared | Description | Corresponding journal | Debit | Credit | 
Balance

Date | Dividends to be paid to shareholder(s) | Liabilities:Dividends Payable | 
$125,000 | - | -$125,000

Dividends are paid out and therefore 'Dividends declared' register will always 
be in minus and in red font since there will be no credit to it. This also 
serves as a value that has to be adjusted from total net income to give the 
true Retained Earnings in Balance sheet.

Equity register will be in minus over time after dividends paid to shareholder 
exceed their investment (they get the profit). And it's fine. When a balance 
sheet is generated, the equity won't be minus since Assets are included in the 
formula: Equity = Assets - Liabilities. If you're paying shareholder more money 
that means you have great profit, so equity will be positive in balance sheet.

Also, generate the balance sheet and generate income statement and you would 
find that Retailed Earnings is the same as the net income amount. Retained 
earnings should reflect the dividend paid to owners. That's the techni

Re: [GNC] [GNC-dev] Recording dividend payoffs

[Maf. King]

On Wednesday, 17 April 2019 00:35:15 BST Christopher Lam wrote:
> I suspect there's vocabulary issue here.
> 
> Justin are you talking about Dividends whereby the business owner (with
> shareholders) sends monies to shareholders? I don't know how to book these
> transactions. Asset:Bank -> Expenses:Dividends?
> 

That one.

That's how I do it, but OP has been using a reference text online which says 
quite forcefully that Dividends Paid are not an expense, because expenses are 
temporary account(s) used to calculate a year's profit.  

Dividends are paid out of taxed profits, not trading expense accounts.

Said text goes on to explain that the act of declaring a dividend to be 
payable creates a liability account on the company.  When dividends are paid, 
that liability account is cleared from equity:retained Earnings (presumably 
company bank balance also reduces, but I haven't thought at length about what 
the 4th balancing account would be in a GC txn).  

I think that the OP's point is that if you close the books & have a retained 
earnings account, the reports which calculate & show retained earnings on the 
fly don't pay attention if there is already an Equity:RE account in the 
datafile.

Blame GAAP!

Maf.

 




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Re: [GNC] Credits and Debits

[Colin Law]

On Tue, 16 Apr 2019 at 23:47, John Clark via gnucash-user
 wrote:
> ...
> The labels at the top of my GNC transaction pages are labeled ‘Deposit’ and 
> “Withdrawal”. Money comes into the ‘deposit’ column, money ‘disappears’ in 
> the ‘withdrawal’ column.
>
> When I go to the bank I ‘deposit’ money in my account there, when I withdraw 
> money from there, it disappears from my bank account.
>
> I don’t need to change my sense of the ‘names’ depending on the account.
>
> In the case of the credit card accounts, there are Payments (left column, 
> putting money in) and Charges( taking money out).
>
> Again the terms all in terms of my view, which is the important view for ‘my 
> books’.

Which headings you get is defined by the setting of Preferences >
Accounts > Use formal accounting labels, as I mentioned in another
thread.

Colin
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