[Goanet-news]24 NOV 2004: GOACOM DAILY NEWS CLIPPINGS
## # Don't just read the news... discuss it. Learn more about Goa via Goanet# # Goanet is a 10-year-old network launched by Herman Carneiro in 1994. # # See all archives http://news.gmane.org/gmane.culture.region.india.goa/ # # To join, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and ask to join GoanetDigest. # ## GOACOM DAILY NEWS CLIPPINGS Nov 24, 2004 THOUGHT FOR THE DAY: Chukh mandun ghevunk ek forkatai nhoi, punn ek takotichi kuru. (Admitting an error is not a confession of weakness, but a sign of strength.) domnic fernandes [EMAIL PROTECTED] EXPOSITION 2004 PHOTO FEATURE: A small photo feature on the Exposition of the Sacred Remains of St Francis Xavier which opened at Old Goa on November 21. Please Check at http://goacom.com/goanow/exposition/Exposition2004.htm ULTRA-MODERN THEATRE FOR IFFI 2005: Chief Minister Manohar Parrikar announced the construction of an ultra-modern festival theatre for hosting the inaugural and closing ceremony of the International Film festival of India in Goa next year. He also announced the four-laning of St Inez-Tonca road at the cost of Rs eight crore. The new Patto bridge is expected to be fully thrown open to traffic on 26 November. The Chief Minister said that plans are already afoot to prepare for the next year's IFFI, the present work of IFFI related infrastructure works having been completed in time. (GT) UPGRADED KA: A fresh coat of paint, structural renovation and infrastructure upgradation, all worth a whopping Rs.24-crore, has given the famed 20-year-old Charles Correia-designed Kala Academy a look as good as brand new. (H) BOMB THREAT TURNS TO BE A HOAX: A prankster's call that a bomb has been planted in the newly constructed multiplex turned the authorities organizing the International Film Festival of India particularly the police into a tizzy on November 23 night. Fortunately for them, the threat proved to be a hoax. (H) CONG BOSSES IN DELHI UNHAPPY WITH RANE: The All India Congress Committee in New Delhi has taken a serious view of the feedback from Congress MLAs on Pratapsing Rane's 'failure' as the leader of the Congress Legislature Party. It is reliably learnt that an old representation signed by 12 MLAs about a year ago for Rane's removal as the CLP leader, is being revived and is likely to be submitted afresh. (GT) 35 NEW KTC BUSES: Kadamba Transport Corporation Ltd acquired 35 new buses to be put into operation during IFFI 2004 and the Exposition of St Francis Xavier's sacred relics. In addition, the KTC also acquired two luxury Volvo buses from Bangalore which will be fully used for the convenience of the IFFI delegates during the 11-day festival. (GT) KITE CARNIVAL: Adding to the buzz of IFFI, Kite Carnival returns to the Miramar beach from December 10. As it begins a day after IFFI concludes in Goa (December 9), the three-day 3rd International Goa Kite Festival is sponsored by the Goa department of Tourism, IFFI and The Nomad Heritage Trust and Nomad Travels. On December 10, the kite festival will begin at 4 pm with a display of kite surfing and kite ballet, etc. There will be a film/slide show on kites by Scott Skinner, president of Drachen Foundation. December 11 and 12 will be two days of kite flying experience from 11 am till sunset followed by a musical concert. (H) YOU TOO CAN BE A FILM-MAKER! Thanks to the International Film Festival of India, young people in Goa now have an opportunity to shoot their own short films and have them screened at the IFFI. The IFFI Director, Ms Neelam Kapur, told mediapersons that for the first time in the history of the IFFI, a new Special Talent competition called 24X7 has been introduced for young people. 24X7 will give an opportunity to the young participants to conceive, shoot and edit their own films. The duration of the film has to be between 24 seconds to 24 minutes long. Only persons below 24 years are eligible for this workshop. The theme of the competition is 'Nature and Violence' and it has to be completed within 24 hours. (NT) I'LL PLANT FIVE TIMES MORE TREES: CM: In a bid to reassure activists, who raised doubts about environmental rules being flouted during the course of preparing for the IFFI, Chief Minister Manohar Parrikar said that everything will be brought back to its original position. Parrikar said that he would be planting five times the number of trees cut down and that he was only waiting for the debris to be cleared from various places. (GT) ST CATERINE'S FEAST: The feast of St Catarine of Alexandria, patroness of the Se Cathedral, Old Goa, will be celebrated in the Se Cathedral on November 25 at 9.30 am. Archbishop-Patriarch Filipe Neri Ferrao will be the main celebrant. There will be no veneration (kissing) of the relics of St Francis Xavier from 9 am to 11 am. No masses will be celebrated in the pandal during this time.The main
Re: [Goanet]VoicesofIraq.com
## # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # Want to check the archives? http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/# # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## Tariq, You have again avoided the primary question that goes beyond all the details, which is WHY ARE YOU AND SANTOSH SO OPPOSED TO FREEDOM AND DEMOCRACY FOR THE IRAQIS, when you enjoy it for yourselves? --- Tariq Siddiqui [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- Mario Goveia [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Good point, Tariq. Which is why it is so important to read multiple sources of news with an eye towards weasel words and bias, and to follow non-partisan investigative reports where there are checks and balances. These two gentlemen are people who actually live and work in Iraq, have lost friends and relatives in the conflict, and openly admit that their bias is towards the positive things that are happening there, while recognizing that a small faction of the 25 million Iraqis are still objecting, for one reason or another, to the freedom and democracy that is developing there. What I don't understand is while, a) We all know that Saddam was a brutal dictator, b) We all know that the US, using UN resolution 1441 as a legal excuse, formed a coalition and deposed him, c) We all now know that the key members of the UN that opposed the coalition had a conflict of interest and were involved with Saddam in looting the country to the tune of some DOUBLE DIGIT BILLIONS OF DOLLARS. SO, WITH PLENTY OF BLAME TO GO AROUND, WHY THE HELL ARE SO MANY INDIANS, WHO APPRECIATE THEIR OWN FREEDOM AND DEMOCRACY, NITPICKING EVERY DETAIL AND OPPOSING THE OPPORTUNITY FOR THE IRAQI PEOPLE TO LIVE IN FREEDOM AND DEMOCRACY? IF THE IRAQIS ARE MASOCHISTS AND WANT TO CONTINUE TO BE BRUTALIZED THEY CAN VOTE THE BAATHISTS BACK INTO POWER, WHO WILL RELEASE SADDAM, AND EVERYONE WILL LIVE HAPPILY EVER AFTER. WON'T THEY? I think Santosh Helekar's answer is better than anything that I could write. Therefore, I must refer you to his post. http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/2004-November/020968.html One part that I would like to quote so that it could perhaps permeate into your Foxed brain is: As far as the rest of his embarrassing outburst is concerned, the questions that he poses in capital letters stem from a specious post-hoc rationalization for an illegal war. They are meant to disguise the fact that the Iraq war was based on a lie. These questions are really, completely saiba bogus. Saiba Bogos! -Tariq __ Do you Yahoo!? Meet the all-new My Yahoo! - Try it today! http://my.yahoo.com
Re: [Goanet]Re: The world dodged a bullet on Nov. 2
## # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # Want to check the archives? http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/# # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## Tariq, You have not answered the main question which puzzles me more than any detail that we may discuss, which is WHY ARE YOU SO OPPOSED TO FREEDOM AND DEMOCRACY FOR THE IRAQIS, while enjoying it for yourself? --- Tariq Siddiqui [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- Mario Goveia [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: a) We all know that Saddam was a brutal dictator, b) We all know that the US, using UN resolution 1441 as a legal excuse, formed a coalition and deposed him, c) We all now know that the key members of the UN that opposed the coalition had a conflict of interest and were involved with Saddam in looting the country to the tune of some DOUBLE DIGIT BILLIONS OF DOLLARS. All very good reasons, but these were not the reasons that GW Bush put forth as a reason for the war. What you talk about is what the neocons now say when their reason for the war has been exposed to be a lie. -Tariq __ Do you Yahoo!? Meet the all-new My Yahoo! - Try it today! http://my.yahoo.com
Re: [Goanet]RE: Questions about Hindu caste?
## # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # Want to check the archives? http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/# # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## Frederick, You say, To demand that a Hindu doesn't believe in a caste categorisation is akin to demanding that Catholics don't believe in religion, and after all religion divides people doesn't it? I'm sorry, but this makes no sense at all. All decent religions preach peace, goodwill and harmony, even if this may not be followed in practice at all times. Caste, on the other hand, is blatant discrimination pure and simple, within each religion. It may have had a rationale 5,000 years ago, but what is the rationale for continuing it today? It makes even less sense when practiced by Catholics. Did you know that they have separate Catholic parishes and churches for dalits and brahmins in Kerala? It is time to get beyond this despicable practice, regardless of how and why it started and continued for so long. --- Frederick Noronha(FN) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ## # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # Want to check the archives? http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/# # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## On Tue, 23 Nov 2004, rene barreto wrote: Writing or talking does not help eliminate CASTE , action does. Do WE have any suggestions as to how this CASTE problem can be addressed ? If so please share them with us on this Goan Forum. Rene, There seems to be some confusion creeping in here. What exactly is *the caste problem*? Do you mean caste-based discrimination and unjustified/unnecessary feelings of superiority and inferiority? If so, I agree with you fully and more, it indeed is a significant and serious problem. Some on Goanet are interpreting this 'problem' to mean any acknowledgement of an inherited, caste-based identity. Something which, we assume, needs to be denounced before we can move ahead. We need to be sensitive to accept that the Hindu position on this would obviously be different from that within Christianity. And I am nobody to sit in judgement on someone else's definition of their self-identity, though I retain my right to criticise 'urban myths' about superiority, etc R K Nair suggested this difference, when he himself pointed out (some might have missed the suggestion) that his surname makes it clear that he is a Nair (a Kerala-based caste known for its matrilineal traditions). I also do not think it's fair to blast Santosh for an accident of birth, whereas one could and should judge him (or anyone else) for words and actions. As a Helecar, Santosh will be seen as belonging to a certain caste (Saraswat Brahmin, in this case), whether he so defines himself or not. There's little he can do about it, short of disguising/dropping his family name which might be both undesirable or still unhelpful. This is just like as a Noronha I'm seen by the outside world as belonging to a certain religion. In Christianity, the problem is complex, because this is a religion which doesn't give any theological sanction for the acceptance of caste. For Hinduism, caste is part of the accepted religious world-view, so I don't think anyone from the outside has a right to go and preach in what direction Hinduism should reform itself. (This reminds me of the hypocrisy evident in demands being made by Hindutva proponents for the reform of Islam, its educational system, its family laws, its attitude towards women, etc. All very easy when it comes to 'reforming' someone else's traditions... it also gives us that smug feeling that we are somehow *superior* than the rest. We aren't!) As things stand in India today, untouchability has been banned by law. Even if that had some sanction in the past, it was an odious human practise. Caste, in itself, still lives on. In some states, official forms require one to fill in one caste. in the 'sixties and 'seventies, we had a column for 'race and religion', an experience we shared probably with friends in Africa then, and countries like Malaysia till date. So our school authorities hurriedly sorted out this dilemma by getting us to fill in 'Indian Christian'. I don't think any of the racial/racist theories of the past claim that there is an 'Indian' race. (At least not outside of North America, where the White man got it so badly mixed up!) Anyway, that was the way out then. Reform won't come because outsiders
Re: [Goanet]Re: Arafat Terrorism
## # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # Want to check the archives? http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/# # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## Tariq, I hope you get some comfort and satisfaction from quoting what Ben Gurion said 85 years ago and Menachim Begin said 60 years ago, while ignoring what Ehud Barak said just 4 years ago. It is amazing to me that anyone would even consider locating a Jewish homeland in Uganda rather than their Biblical homeland. Anyway, all that was decided by the UN in 1947, making anything before that a moot issue. The brutal fact is that it is the militant Arabs and Palestinians who defied the UN sponsored partition of 1947, tried to push the Jews into the sea and failed, and will not accept a 2 state configuration to this day. Until the Palestinians are willing to cease hostilities and negotiate, the low-grade conflict is doomed to continue. Tariq Siddiqui [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:## # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # Want to check the archives? http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/ # # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## --- Mario Goveia wrote: Israel doesn't claim all of Palestine as a historical right, so this whole line of reasoning is bogus. They accepted a small slice in 1947 as part of the UN attempt to provide them with a homeland after the Holocaust. Perhaps you were never aware of David Ben-Gurion. In 1918 Ben-Gurion described the future Jewish state's frontiers in details as follows: to the north, the Litani river [in southern Lebanon], to the northeast, the Wadi 'Owja, twenty miles south of Damascus; the southern border will be mobile and pushed into Sinai at least up to Wadi al-'Arish; and to the east, the Syrian Desert, including the furthest edge of Transjordan (Expulsion of the Palestinians by Nur Masalha) Or perhaps you were not aware of when he wrote: The acceptance of partition does not commit us to renounce Transjordan. One does not demand from anybody to give up his vision. We shall accept a state in the boundaries fixed today--but the boundaries of the Zionist aspirations are the concern of the Jewish people and no external factor will be able to limit them. (The Birth of Israel: Myths and Realities by Simha Flapan) As for the partition of Palestine. Let us see what Menachim Begin, later to become Prime Minister of Israel said: The Partition of Palestine is illegal. It will never be recognized Jerusalem was and will for ever be our capital. Eretz Israel will be restored to the people of Israel. All of it. And for Ever. (The Iron Wall by Avi Shlaim) Aren't you even aware that Jews and Muslims inhabited Palestine since the Old Testament days and both trace their origins to Abraham? The European Jews who had survived the Nazis then fled to Israel during and after WW-II. So, what is this nonsense about ALL the Israelis being Europeans? Your example of placing Israel in Uganda is also bogus, because, unlike Palestine, Uganda had no ties to Jews in any way, shape or form. You are correct, all the Israels are not Ashkenazi or European Jews. Some of them are Sephardic Jews. But neither of them lived in Palestine in any significant minority. At the turn of the century there were estimated to be only 70,000 Jews in Palestine. Due to immigration from Europe, these numbers swelled to 806,000 by the end of WWII. So Tim is correct. As for Tim's remarks on Uganda, they cannot be claimed as bogus since there was a plan to settle Jews in Uganda. Efforts were also made to settle Jews in Iraq, Libya, Argentina and the Jewish Autonomous Republic in the USSR. None were accepted by the European Jews, who preferred Palestine. -Tariq __ Do you Yahoo!? The all-new My Yahoo! - Get yours free! http://my.yahoo.com
[Goanet]Simply Remo: Old Goan Gold
## # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # Want to check the archives? http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/# # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## Simply Remo: Old Goan Gold http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/933190.cms Music is his passion, his two teenage children his 'life' and the world his stage: Remo Fernandes tells Jhalak Bhavsar in an informal chit-chat His breakfast consists of a bowl of fruits and his T-shirt sports different chants and mantras. Yet he is perfectly at home with his guitar and his laptop. A study in opposites, a trend-setter, a self-made man whose middle name is music. That's Remo Fernandes. So when he says I'm just this simple guy with a burning passion for music, you can't help but believe him. Remo is a true trend-setter who has never compromised his work. I think honesty is more important than being politically correct. If I wanted to win awards, I'd probably be careful. But I don't want to please people. A mention of the current Indian pop music scene has him pondering as he twists one of his many intricately designed rings. In films, they're surely coming up with good stuff. But with remixing of old classics, the music scene has just taken a U-turn. Now everything is either feasible, viable or profitable... anything but music, he adds. God fearing, unconventional and thriving on surprise value, Remo is no longer the young rebel as he crosses the half century mark. Father of two teenage sons, Noah and Jonah, one wonders what sort of a parent he makes. Noah has just turned 18 and we have our normal disagreements. He's into music, but he wants to be a graphic designer. A true blue Goan who didn't fall prey to the lure of Mumbai, Remo has no regrets. Goa is home. Moving to Mumbai made sense career-wise. But there are things about Mumbai which I somehow don't like -- the fast pace, the pollution, the stench. Be it singing a Jalwaa at the time of a Qurbani , or a humma humma to get the nation grooving -- Remo has survived several generations of musicians -- proof in itself of the man's talent and grit. He hums O Meri Munni while delving into his fruity breakfast, it seems this is one singer who will be heard for many more years to come. Forwarded By Eddie Verdes
[Goanet]I demand apology - TYPICAL GOAN ATTITUDE
## # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # Want to check the archives? http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/# # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## [On a more serious note, one can't help wonder how strong a gene we Goans have in reducing almost every debate into a name-calling, slanging match between individuals and personalities, rather than allowing it to be a battle of ideas that allows truth to surface and a diversity of perspectives to flow. FN ] Fred, can i ask you what role the G-net A-min plays has when topics get out of control. You can either put brakes or play UN role to bring about peace. The debates are not contributing to any development of GOA or GOANS... we are all in a race for proving our superiority... A TYPICAL GOAN ATTITUDE !! Was that offensive...naah!! IT'S THE TRUTH. CHeeRs LAws Kuwait = == Men are like steel: when they lose their temper, they lose their worth. __ Do you Yahoo!? Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone. http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo
[Goanet]24 NOV 2004: GOACOM DAILY NEWS CLIPPINGS
## # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # Want to check the archives? http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/# # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## GOACOM DAILY NEWS CLIPPINGS Nov 24, 2004 THOUGHT FOR THE DAY: Chukh mandun ghevunk ek forkatai nhoi, punn ek takotichi kuru. (Admitting an error is not a confession of weakness, but a sign of strength.) domnic fernandes [EMAIL PROTECTED] EXPOSITION 2004 PHOTO FEATURE: A small photo feature on the Exposition of the Sacred Remains of St Francis Xavier which opened at Old Goa on November 21. Please Check at http://goacom.com/goanow/exposition/Exposition2004.htm ULTRA-MODERN THEATRE FOR IFFI 2005: Chief Minister Manohar Parrikar announced the construction of an ultra-modern festival theatre for hosting the inaugural and closing ceremony of the International Film festival of India in Goa next year. He also announced the four-laning of St Inez-Tonca road at the cost of Rs eight crore. The new Patto bridge is expected to be fully thrown open to traffic on 26 November. The Chief Minister said that plans are already afoot to prepare for the next year's IFFI, the present work of IFFI related infrastructure works having been completed in time. (GT) UPGRADED KA: A fresh coat of paint, structural renovation and infrastructure upgradation, all worth a whopping Rs.24-crore, has given the famed 20-year-old Charles Correia-designed Kala Academy a look as good as brand new. (H) BOMB THREAT TURNS TO BE A HOAX: A prankster's call that a bomb has been planted in the newly constructed multiplex turned the authorities organizing the International Film Festival of India particularly the police into a tizzy on November 23 night. Fortunately for them, the threat proved to be a hoax. (H) CONG BOSSES IN DELHI UNHAPPY WITH RANE: The All India Congress Committee in New Delhi has taken a serious view of the feedback from Congress MLAs on Pratapsing Rane's 'failure' as the leader of the Congress Legislature Party. It is reliably learnt that an old representation signed by 12 MLAs about a year ago for Rane's removal as the CLP leader, is being revived and is likely to be submitted afresh. (GT) 35 NEW KTC BUSES: Kadamba Transport Corporation Ltd acquired 35 new buses to be put into operation during IFFI 2004 and the Exposition of St Francis Xavier's sacred relics. In addition, the KTC also acquired two luxury Volvo buses from Bangalore which will be fully used for the convenience of the IFFI delegates during the 11-day festival. (GT) KITE CARNIVAL: Adding to the buzz of IFFI, Kite Carnival returns to the Miramar beach from December 10. As it begins a day after IFFI concludes in Goa (December 9), the three-day 3rd International Goa Kite Festival is sponsored by the Goa department of Tourism, IFFI and The Nomad Heritage Trust and Nomad Travels. On December 10, the kite festival will begin at 4 pm with a display of kite surfing and kite ballet, etc. There will be a film/slide show on kites by Scott Skinner, president of Drachen Foundation. December 11 and 12 will be two days of kite flying experience from 11 am till sunset followed by a musical concert. (H) YOU TOO CAN BE A FILM-MAKER! Thanks to the International Film Festival of India, young people in Goa now have an opportunity to shoot their own short films and have them screened at the IFFI. The IFFI Director, Ms Neelam Kapur, told mediapersons that for the first time in the history of the IFFI, a new Special Talent competition called 24X7 has been introduced for young people. 24X7 will give an opportunity to the young participants to conceive, shoot and edit their own films. The duration of the film has to be between 24 seconds to 24 minutes long. Only persons below 24 years are eligible for this workshop. The theme of the competition is 'Nature and Violence' and it has to be completed within 24 hours. (NT) I'LL PLANT FIVE TIMES MORE TREES: CM: In a bid to reassure activists, who raised doubts about environmental rules being flouted during the course of preparing for the IFFI, Chief Minister Manohar Parrikar said that everything will be brought back to its original position. Parrikar said that he would be planting five times the number of trees cut down and that he was only waiting for the debris to be cleared from various places. (GT) ST CATERINE'S FEAST: The feast of St Catarine of Alexandria, patroness of the Se Cathedral, Old Goa, will be celebrated in the Se Cathedral on November 25 at 9.30 am. Archbishop-Patriarch Filipe Neri Ferrao will be the main celebrant. There will be no veneration (kissing) of the relics of St Francis Xavier from 9 am to 11 am. No masses will be celebrated in the pandal during this time.The main doors of the Se Cathedral have been thrown open to devotees since November 23
Re: [Goanet]The ten commandments
## # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # Want to check the archives? http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/# # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## xembuh Moidekar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The Ten Commandments The real reason that we can't have the Ten Commandments in a Courthouse! You cannot post Thou Shalt Not Steal, Thou Shalt Not Commit Adultery and Thou Shall Not Lie in a building full of lawyers, judges and politicians! It creates a hostile work environment. Any comments Goa netters? Bwana Moidekar, Any lawyer will tell you that there are actually eleven commandments. The 11th commandment is the one that the lawyers have succeeded in keeping out courthouse. The eleventh commandment? Thou shall not get caught :-) Mervyn2.0 __ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca
Re: [Goanet]A letter of introduction
## # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # Want to check the archives? http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/# # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## Welcome Ivar! You are already an Indian! Helga I guess, it will take more than 14 years in India, to become an Indian. But I am proud to announce that I today call my self a Goan. When I visit my family in Norway, I always tell them: I know were my roots are, but I am going home to Goa. Sincerely Yours Mr. Ivar Fjeld Ribandar.
Re: [Goanet]Arafat, Palestine, Samir, Miguel, Palestine, Arafat, Miguel, Samir, Miguel, Sam.
## # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # Want to check the archives? http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/# # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## Hey, Freddie, If we all did what you suggest, goanet would be just another bulletin board. People in the middle-east are fighting and dying for their causes. The Israeli-Palestinian dispute has been going on since 1947. The caste system for several millenia. So, the least we can do is talk about it, if that's OK with you. I don't know about you, but some of us, who started miles apart, are coming dangerously close to agreeing on certain points of fact. We can still disagree with what those mean or what to do about them, but that is what freedom is all about, don't you think? Already, Afghan women are no longer whipped for showing their ankles, Afghan girls can go to school now, and Iraqis can even try to kill Allawi without getting their tongues cut out or their women raped in front of them. Slow but sure signs of progress. Seems to bother some people no end. Wonder why. If none of that is your particular cup of tea, use your delete button. Mine works great. --- Frederick Noronha [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ## # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # Want to check the archives? http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/# # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## Don't you guys think we should be bringing the above debates to a halt? I'm not talking as a member of the admin team here, but as an ordinary Goanetter obviously feeling bad about everyone's mailboxes getting battered and bashed with that I-wanna-have-the-last-wordism. Don't try too hard guys, we're not going to convince anyone via cyberspace. Instead, just make your point and leave it at that. You can at least convince the silent majority about your intentions ;-) Frederick Noronha 784 Near Convent, Sonarbhat SALIGAO GOA India Freelance Journalist TEL: +91-832-2409490 MOBILE: 9822122436 http://fn.swiki.net http://www.livejournal.com/users/goalinks fred at bytesforall.org http://www.bytesforall.org
[Goanet]Invitation: Welcome to best-in-the-world Galgibaga
## # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # Want to check the archives? http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/# # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## Netters visiting Goa this festive season are welcome to visit best-in-the-world Galgibaga in Canacona. Professional guiding available in Canacona. email or dial 9422390701/2632012. Tony Martin __ Do you Yahoo!? The all-new My Yahoo! - Get yours free! http://my.yahoo.com
RE: [Goanet]RE: Questions about Hindu caste?
## # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # Want to check the archives? http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/# # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## What type of E D U C A T I O N ? Religious? Academic? ...Theology? ...? Cip -Original Message- Tim de Mello on 23 November 2004 15:50 rene barreto [EMAIL PROTECTED] asked: Do WE have any suggestions as to how this CASTE problem can be addressed ? Answer: E D U C A T I O N Tim de Mello [EMAIL PROTECTED] CANADA
Re: [Goanet]RE: Questions about Hindu caste?
## # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # Want to check the archives? http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/# # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## On Tue, 23 Nov 2004, rene barreto wrote: Writing or talking does not help eliminate CASTE , action does. Do WE have any suggestions as to how this CASTE problem can be addressed ? If so please share them with us on this Goan Forum. Rene, There seems to be some confusion creeping in here. What exactly is *the caste problem*? Do you mean caste-based discrimination and unjustified/unnecessary feelings of superiority and inferiority? If so, I agree with you fully and more, it indeed is a significant and serious problem. Some on Goanet are interpreting this 'problem' to mean any acknowledgement of an inherited, caste-based identity. Something which, we assume, needs to be denounced before we can move ahead. We need to be sensitive to accept that the Hindu position on this would obviously be different from that within Christianity. And I am nobody to sit in judgement on someone else's definition of their self-identity, though I retain my right to criticise 'urban myths' about superiority, etc R K Nair suggested this difference, when he himself pointed out (some might have missed the suggestion) that his surname makes it clear that he is a Nair (a Kerala-based caste known for its matrilineal traditions). I also do not think it's fair to blast Santosh for an accident of birth, whereas one could and should judge him (or anyone else) for words and actions. As a Helecar, Santosh will be seen as belonging to a certain caste (Saraswat Brahmin, in this case), whether he so defines himself or not. There's little he can do about it, short of disguising/dropping his family name which might be both undesirable or still unhelpful. This is just like as a Noronha I'm seen by the outside world as belonging to a certain religion. In Christianity, the problem is complex, because this is a religion which doesn't give any theological sanction for the acceptance of caste. For Hinduism, caste is part of the accepted religious world-view, so I don't think anyone from the outside has a right to go and preach in what direction Hinduism should reform itself. (This reminds me of the hypocrisy evident in demands being made by Hindutva proponents for the reform of Islam, its educational system, its family laws, its attitude towards women, etc. All very easy when it comes to 'reforming' someone else's traditions... it also gives us that smug feeling that we are somehow *superior* than the rest. We aren't!) As things stand in India today, untouchability has been banned by law. Even if that had some sanction in the past, it was an odious human practise. Caste, in itself, still lives on. In some states, official forms require one to fill in one caste. in the 'sixties and 'seventies, we had a column for 'race and religion', an experience we shared probably with friends in Africa then, and countries like Malaysia till date. So our school authorities hurriedly sorted out this dilemma by getting us to fill in 'Indian Christian'. I don't think any of the racial/racist theories of the past claim that there is an 'Indian' race. (At least not outside of North America, where the White man got it so badly mixed up!) Anyway, that was the way out then. Reform won't come because outsiders criticise practises of any religion. It has to come when people from within feel the need for change; just as Goa's Devdasi system undertook a remarkable self-transformation in the decades following the 1920s. Aggressively critiquing and blasting someone else of another religion or culture (unless our intention is to merely score debating points) is unlikely to bring about change. If Hindus themselves want to reform their religion, it is up to them. It cannot be forced by one-sided critiques from elsewhere. To demand that a Hindu doesn't believe in a caste categorisation is akin to demanding that Catholics don't believe in religion, and after all religion divides people doesn't it? Incidentally, I think there is enough theological justification for even an atheist to be a Hindu in the religious sense too, though the same is not true in religions that grow out of Semetic roots. Maybe Dr Helecar will enlighten us about this. Though we know he doesn't define himself in religious terms, my point is that he well could, if he wanted to. Hinduism allows for that. All religions don't have to have exactly the same features to be treated as religions; Buddhism doesn't even believe in a god (sorry, capital G) in the sense say Christianity does. Also, I don't think 'idol worship' has any negative connotations in Hinduism, as it does in say in Islam or
[Goanet]A history of migration: A Frontline View
## # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # Want to check the archives? http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/# # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## Dear Goanetters, This appears to be a half-baked report that has been poorly researched. It does not even scratch the surface of the truth. Did Vasco suddenly become a garbage dump a few years back? Did Percival actually say what he is quoted as having said? I very much doubt that a historian of his caliber will make such a statement. Having interacted with him, I would vouch to the contrary. 450 years and 23 days is the period from 25 Nov.1510 to 18 Dec.1969. Afonso de Albuquerque had also occupied Cidade de Goa or Velha Goa/Old Goa for two months beginning 01 March,1510 before being driven out by the Bijapur King, Adil Khan[ or Idalcao, as the Portuguese called him].He re-captured Goa[then referring to just the port at Ela-Old Goa] in November. Nothing that he could do in the rainy season. Even the locals waited for Dusshera to begin war. All of Goa was hardly ever under Portuguese rule continuously. the Bijapur Sultan and his Governor of Belgaum, the Marathas, Bhonsales, Ranes and even the British occupied parts of Goa for varying periods of time,even in the 18th century. Goans studied in Belgaum,Hubli,Dharwar,Mumbai,Mangalore ,Bangalore,etc all through the Portuguese era. My father studied in Mumbai,my mother in Dharwar, my mother-in-law in Bangalore.It was only my grand parents and earlier generations that went to Portugal for higher studies not then available in India.[Persons from British India studied at Oxford or Cambridge in English, a language that was almost worthless in Goa then.] All this was during the colonial era. Closed shell my foot. Ravi Sharma must be writing about Siberia or the island occupied by the survivors of Capt. Fletcher's mutiny on the Bounty. And what rule from Portugal..Other than the terror of the PIDE, there wre local self-government bodies or Camara in each taluka of the Old Conquest and the local Parliament in Panjim. Mayem and Pernem had the fiefdoms under a Count or Viscount. . From: Eddie Fernandes [EMAIL PROTECTED] Headline: A history of migration BY: RAVI SHARMA Source: Frontline. Volume 21 - Issue 24 (Nov. 20 - Dec 03, 2004) at http://flonnet.com/fl2124/stories/20041203001905400.htm Nevertheless, development has acted as a catalyst in attracting migrant workers, who are grudgingly seen as a necessary evil. But they are an integral part of Goan society. An attempt a few years ago to drive away the migrants who cleaned the streets of Vasco da Gama boomeranged, with the whole city turning into a garbage dump.* Native Goans worry that their identity will vanish in the face of a migrant assault. Said Percival Noronha, 80, a former bureaucrat who served both under the Portuguese and under Indian administrators: **We were ruled from Portugal for 450 years and 23 days. We were a closed shell.** The result of this is that we are different from other Indians. While our ethos is Indian, there is no denying the fact that our manners, our way of thinking, is western. Interesting reading, indeed. Inaccurate,all the same. Viva Goa. Miguel
[Goanet]end the agony please!
## # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # Want to check the archives? http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/# # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## Santosh et al, As I stated in my last post, it is futile attempting to engage in any form of logical discussions with these two individuals. It would be of benefit to all goanetters if Mario Goviea and his bigoted friend Chris Vaz were simply ignored. Their constant pattern of verbal abuse (on goanet and elsewhere) indicates that have broader personal issues than that meets the eye. Lets leave it at that. Marlon --- Mario Goveia [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Santosh, You are so full of [EMAIL PROTECTED], pardon my French, that it is a waste of time arguing with you about an attitude we can all read in your words. --- Santosh Helekar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am sorry that I have driven Mario Goveia to such an indefensible position that his only recourse is to use expletives against me.
Re: [Goanet]Re: Arafat Terrorism
## # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # Want to check the archives? http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/# # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## --- Mario Goveia [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Israel doesn't claim all of Palestine as a historical right, so this whole line of reasoning is bogus. They accepted a small slice in 1947 as part of the UN attempt to provide them with a homeland after the Holocaust. Perhaps you were never aware of David Ben-Gurion. In 1918 Ben-Gurion described the future Jewish state's frontiers in details as follows: to the north, the Litani river [in southern Lebanon], to the northeast, the Wadi 'Owja, twenty miles south of Damascus; the southern border will be mobile and pushed into Sinai at least up to Wadi al-'Arish; and to the east, the Syrian Desert, including the furthest edge of Transjordan (Expulsion of the Palestinians by Nur Masalha) Or perhaps you were not aware of when he wrote: The acceptance of partition does not commit us to renounce Transjordan. One does not demand from anybody to give up his vision. We shall accept a state in the boundaries fixed today--but the boundaries of the Zionist aspirations are the concern of the Jewish people and no external factor will be able to limit them. (The Birth of Israel: Myths and Realities by Simha Flapan) As for the partition of Palestine. Let us see what Menachim Begin, later to become Prime Minister of Israel said: The Partition of Palestine is illegal. It will never be recognized Jerusalem was and will for ever be our capital. Eretz Israel will be restored to the people of Israel. All of it. And for Ever. (The Iron Wall by Avi Shlaim) Aren't you even aware that Jews and Muslims inhabited Palestine since the Old Testament days and both trace their origins to Abraham? The European Jews who had survived the Nazis then fled to Israel during and after WW-II. So, what is this nonsense about ALL the Israelis being Europeans? Your example of placing Israel in Uganda is also bogus, because, unlike Palestine, Uganda had no ties to Jews in any way, shape or form. You are correct, all the Israels are not Ashkenazi or European Jews. Some of them are Sephardic Jews. But neither of them lived in Palestine in any significant minority. At the turn of the century there were estimated to be only 70,000 Jews in Palestine. Due to immigration from Europe, these numbers swelled to 806,000 by the end of WWII. So Tim is correct. As for Tim's remarks on Uganda, they cannot be claimed as bogus since there was a plan to settle Jews in Uganda. Efforts were also made to settle Jews in Iraq, Libya, Argentina and the Jewish Autonomous Republic in the USSR. None were accepted by the European Jews, who preferred Palestine. -Tariq __ Do you Yahoo!? The all-new My Yahoo! - Get yours free! http://my.yahoo.com
[Goanet]Questions about Hindu caste?
## # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # Want to check the archives? http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/# # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## Goemkars ! YES ! I believe that Tim's suggestion is a Great one , but how do we address this * EDUCATION * ? I hope that those who have been strongly making their points on the evils of Caste system ..in our ..GOAN SOCIETY ! on the various GOAN Forums . will participate in this ** EDUCATION ** process irrespective of they being MUSLIMS ...HINDUS or CATHOLICS .. ..or people who have no religion and all ! ... I wait to seeor.will we continue seeing more of these these unfruitful posts..? on our GOANET ! Lets not create more PROBLEMS ...but lets .. ..find SOLUTIONS. I felt that we were very cruel in attacking Santosh and Sachin for being * born * - into a caste system they had no chice to born into. Did they chose to be born in the caste they were born ? I would like to apologize ..on behalf of those who agree with ..ME. SORRY Santosh and Sachin WHY curse the God who made them ? Is it not what we are doing ...? Yes TIM , we ALL need to be EDUCATED so that we may once again work TOGETHER , there are many amongst us who would like to work together to bring our GOANS TOGETHER but we have a FEW who by their actions ..are working against US ..GOANS. This is all I can say , it's a pity , but this is the TRUTH. rene - Original Message - From: Tim de Mello [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2004 3:50 PM Subject: [Goanet]RE: Questions about Hindu caste? rene barreto [EMAIL PROTECTED] asked: Do WE have any suggestions as to how this CASTE problem can be addressed ? Answer: E D U C A T I O N Tim de Mello [EMAIL PROTECTED] CANADA
[Goanet]Story of a Stone
## # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # Want to check the archives? http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/# # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## Story of a Stone by Bicaji Ghanekar STONES are very interesting subjects. Many of us observe and appreciate different kinds of stones but there are a few who collect them. There are others who study them in a discipline called geology. My wife did her graduation in geology. Sometimes I refer to her as Fatram dotor (doctor of stones) in the same way that a neighbourhood plumber loved calling himself Nollancho dotor (doctor of taps). I am not one of those who has any liking for stones. The dislike only increased in standard 7 when I was forced to study geology. I still remember how a geology professor and his students used to come regularly to Usgao where I worked as the rural medical officer. Such was their interest in the old stones lying around that the rigours of travel or the blazing sun hardly bothered them. I cannot help thinking about something made from a particular kind of stone called slate. Little children hardly use them nowadays. You see, computers are faster and better. Those were the days when children learnt the alphabet using a slate and a piece of chalk. Today, this may only be visible in some decrepit government primary school. A stone like graphite will attract no attention. But subject it to intense temperatures and it will be transformed into a diamond. I do not need to dwell on how much attention a sparkling diamond commands. This is so much like how seemingly plain looking people command respect owing to a great personality which shines forth dwarfing the physical attributes. The mention of a stone does not usually cause alarm except when the word kidney is prefixed to it. This ailment which can be very painful in the advanced stages is a boon for mushrooming health care institutions. One day, during my morning walk I noticed a few children piling up stones near a mango tree. When I returned on the same route after some time, the stones had been replaced by a heap of juicy mangoes. Stones can cause trouble too. In this country, mobs frequently resort to stone throwing since the missile is freely available. Is it not remarkable that the same stone that a geologist uses for constructive purposes becomes destructive in the hands of a fanatic?
Re: [Goanet]Govt Ads: The obvious needs to be said.
## # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # Want to check the archives? http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/# # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## Dear Fred, There is a light drizzle in the evening. The next day a leading newspaper carries a photo of a giant Raintree[ which has withstood storms for the last 50 years] uprooted by the inclement weather. No one disputes it. There is a gust of wind, not enough to topple the plastic traffic cones, but another giant Raintree uproots and topples over. Fact or Fiction? The photo caption says it did. The trees were planted. So were the photos . PLANTED. Nurtured by the PRESS. GT is no virgin in this. It has nutured plants in the past. So why this talk about freedon of the Press. Press it lightly and it yields. It almost always has. If you know a consistent exception to this rule, please let me know. [I am not talking about individual journalists, I am talking of a newspaper operating in Goa] .You will know the inherent contradictions in the so-called newspaper before I point them out. We really do not have newspapers any more. We only have PROPAGANDA...and ADVERTISEMMENTS. Even some commercial 'plants' feature as 'news' by staff reporters or news desk. Some are blatant about it, others are coy. THAT'S THE POINT. It is all about money,honey. From: Frederick Noronha(FN) [EMAIL PROTECTED] My point is that divide-and-rule works. In the media too. Probably more so in the media, when there's a fat, juicy (often undeserved) advertising carrot at the end of the policy. It's a sad day that we accept as normal the fact that views and perceptives can be turned off and on with advertising. FN On Mon, 22 Nov 2004, Miguel Braganza wrote: Dear Fred, I am not justifying the advertising policies of the governments, past and present.I am just stating a fact: like it or lump it. The day all the newspaper managements, the Editors Guild and the GUJ members will see this from one perspective has not yet dawned. It is unlikely to happen in the foreseeable future. . So what is your point? I believe that once it was decided to broaden the roads and make foot paths[ political and administrative decision], there was no way the tree could remain. I was only sad that the Government machinery had to act like a bank robber, breaking things in the dead of the night. They should have felled the trees in broad daylight and justified why they were doing it. It is sad that the trees had to goBUT THEY ARE NOT IRREPLACEABLE. In fact, Raintrees planted a few years back are already growing big on the Miramar-Dona Paula stretch. How huge they can get can be seen on the Guirim-Porvorim road, where two rain trees planted in 1985 are already huge without any care. Should we not work to nurture these trees? does anyone know how many trees were cut to make the Kadamba road to Old Goa? Does anyone care to know? The point is the newspaper propaganda went out of the way to cover up shabbily an act it should have exposed. The counterpoint is that GT sensationalized the story of crucifixtion of these self same trees. Was that not propaganda? Who was being crucified? Was the imagery and symbolism accidental? Should we dig up those stories? Was there no hidden agenda? Why did the people who agitated so much when Sanjit Rodrigues was the Commissioner of CCP suddenly become quiet when Suryanarayan came to town? Principles? Ethics? or Needs? Viva Goa. Miguel
[Goanet]Konkani Drama Tuzo Gaum Mhojem Naum - An autobiography turned into an acceptable theatrical format
## # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # Want to check the archives? http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/# # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## Konkani Drama Tuzo Gaum Mhojem Naum - An autobiography turned into an acceptable theatrical format TUZO GAUM MHOJEM NAUM with the rich script centering around family values, culture, traditions, the cast mix of versatile artistes include the specially flown in Goa-based Konkani stage's popular comedians Ben Evengelisto Janet Almeida, Irene Vaz and Bab Andrew was staged at the Gulf English School Auditorium, Rumathiyah, Kuwait on Friday, 19th November 2004. In self-scrutinizing references to traditional aspects of life of the Goan natives, like the uncultivated fields left barren, the offsetting of traditions of christening of the grandson with the name of the grandfather, and the respect to the elderly folks of the household when greeting and common courtesy, Simon Gonsalves turned an autobiography into an accepted theatrical form to the surprise and suspense of the audience during his 4 hour long dramatic presentation titled Tujo Gaum Mhojem Naum. Interspered with songs and 'cantos', the cast also included Kuwait-based artistes Querobina Carvalho, Gracy Morais, Clara Rodrigues, Adrian Goes, Sylvester Vaz, Joe Fereira, Manuel, Agnel DCosta, Laurie Miranda, Comedian Salu Comedian Nelson, Ignatius de Xelvon, Rosary Ferns, Trio Kings: Marcus-Cajetan-Mario, Michael DSilva, Jacinto Noronha, Bab Agnel, Clifford, and child artistes Bab Palen Baby Athika. A Konkani and tiatr lover among the audience, Tome Gracias, congratulated on the internet forums Simon Gonsalves good presentation and efforts. The shrewdness with which the main theme and focus of the play is let out as an image with a wonderful performance, was indeed marvelous. Simon Gonsalves' legacy is as a storytelling self-analyst. Having witnessed his 'one-act plays' in the past 2-3 years and his performance in other Konkani presentations in Kuwait, I can categorically state that his acting prowess is superb. His monologues which wove exotic adventures together with mundane personal tales, philosophical musings, painful admissions of embarrassing behavior among his siblings, goes a long way to prove his creativeness in writing and direction too. A general amazement at how often life's most far-fetched possibilities actually occur, and are sometimes anchored in the common man's pursuits of worldly goals, and appreciation bestowed by unknown, but ever grateful strangers. Simon Gonsalves gives us an impression of what all his work shared was an air of comic desperation, the amusement and fear that the knowledge that life is absurd can foster. The monologues were simply staged Simon Gonsalves habitually performed as a handicapped (with both his arms lost due to a tragic mis-fortune), often in a plaid shirt and trousers, with only his legs and toes doing the simple actions and in front of him and his audience. Intoned with a back-porch informality that made it seem to keep the story-line suspense, Simon Gonsalves was making up his story briefs as he went along with his narrative of the drama. They gave off the deceptive, anyone-can-do-this aroma, with his captivating performance together with his supporting cast and an equally appreciative scenes and stage craft. A relentless worrywart who often spoke of being tormented by memories that wouldn't recede and who seemed to suffer from a compulsion for self-flagellation, Simon Gonsalves seemed uninterested in staking a claim for expertise in a niche of our culture of personal hardship and luck. And he never seemed to be taking credit for his own survival (the main character of the drama); rather, it seemed his storytelling shows the audience, was how he survived and truimped. Simon Gonsalves regaled the audience with a chameleon like ability to lose himself in the role that he played, together with his co-stars, who did not let any stone unturned to give their best. Popularly known with a penchant for playing any character dangerously benchmarked on edge psychotics, Simon displayed it well once again. The audience were delighted to hear the ever-helpful contribution of Konkani stage artiste, Jose Rod, when a thank you was conveyed by Simon Gonsalves. This was 'Viva Goa Sports Club' presentation under the banner of God's Gift Everly Production. Our congratulations to you Simon Gonsalves, and to his selected cast of performers, singers and supporting stage technicians. The drama well directed and music by Josinho and Shahu Almeida with Augusto Morais, Dennis and Tony added grace. The songs were sung to the audience's delight on varied subjects. Micheal D'Silva topped the 'encore' tally! As usual, the audience was
[Goanet]Helping Street children in Goa
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Here is a bit of heartwarming news of what an English girl who spent six
weeks with street kids in Goa has set out to do while she is back home. The
Children's Rights-Goa[ CRG] run by Dr,Nishta Desai runs some such 'drop-in
'centres with a little bit of teaching in Mapusa, Calangute,Candolim and a
few other beach areas. Mrs. Mangala Wagle runs the Hamara School on
similar lines in Panjim while Bernie D'Souza and Greg D'Costa do it in
Margao.{Bernie and Greg's work was recognized by the Vincent Xavier
Verodiano Trust o VXV this month]. Caritas helps with a centre for children
with HIV-AIDS close to Mapusa.
If you love children, dip deep into your pockets this festive season Diwali,
Id, Christmas, Tulsi Vivah, New Year and Epiphany. What you give may be
worthy to be a gift of the Magi...the 3 Kings from the East.
INDIAN EVENING IN UK TO HELP GOAN STREET CHILDREN
excerpts from http://www.childrenwalkingtall.com/
18 November 2004
A retired woman from Barnstaple is organising an evening of Indian food and
music to help street
children in Goa. Maureen Charters has already seen for herself the plight
of deprived youngsters who roam the
streets, begging for money and sleeping rough.
And she is raising money for a new charity which aims to provide a drop in
centre, a safe place where the
children can eat, rest and play.
Already Maureen has collected £450 for the cause from well-wishers in
Barnstaple Pannier Market. Now she is
putting on an evening of Indian food and music at Yeo Valley School in
Barnstaple on November 27 to raise
further funds.
Tickets cost £8.50 and people are guaranteed an authentic menu as her
friend from Swimbridge who is
doing the cooking, used to be married to an Indian.
Onion bargees, dips, vegetable korma and Bombay potatoes are among the
delights on offer.
Maureen was inspired to raise money to help the street children while
working for six weeks in Goa.
The drop in centre will be run under the umbrella of a new charity called
**Children Walking Tall. **She
explained: The main aim is to keep the children healthy. They can come and
have something to eat and
fresh clean water to drink.
We need a fridge for the food and we need a water purifier and something
to cook on such as a stove.
As well as providing nourishing food and basic hygiene the centre also aims
to give the children general
medical care and a basic education.
http://www.childrenwalkingtall.com/
=
Courtesy: Jenifer [EMAIL PROTECTED] on VascokarsUnited/
.
Compliments of the season to you all.Share the joy with the less privileged.
Viva Goa.
Miguel
[Goanet]Arafat, Palestine, Samir, Miguel, Palestine, Arafat, Miguel, Samir, Miguel, Sam.
## # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # Want to check the archives? http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/# # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## Don't you guys think we should be bringing the above debates to a halt? I'm not talking as a member of the admin team here, but as an ordinary Goanetter obviously feeling bad about everyone's mailboxes getting battered and bashed with that I-wanna-have-the-last-wordism. Don't try too hard guys, we're not going to convince anyone via cyberspace. Instead, just make your point and leave it at that. You can at least convince the silent majority about your intentions ;-) Frederick Noronha 784 Near Convent, Sonarbhat SALIGAO GOA India Freelance Journalist TEL: +91-832-2409490 MOBILE: 9822122436 http://fn.swiki.net http://www.livejournal.com/users/goalinks fred at bytesforall.org http://www.bytesforall.org
Re: [Goanet] The world dodged a bullet on Nov. 2
## # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # Want to check the archives? http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/# # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## --- Mario Goveia [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Santosh, You are so full of [EMAIL PROTECTED], pardon my French, that it is a waste of time arguing with you about an attitude we can all read in your words. I am sorry that I have driven Mario Goveia to such an indefensible position that his only recourse is to use expletives against me. Mario Goveia has once again failed to defend against my charge that the Bush Iraq war is based on a lie. Like the politicians and the partisan hacks that he supports, he has also once again failed to demonstrate the courage and honesty to admit that there were no WMDs in Iraq just before the war, and there never was any imminent threat to the U.S. from them. As far as the rest of his embarrassing outburst is concerned, the questions that he poses in capital letters stem from a specious post-hoc rationalization for an illegal war. They are meant to disguise the fact that the Iraq war was based on a lie. These questions are really, completely saiba bogus. Saiba Bogos! Cheers, Santosh
Re: [Goanet]Support the Iraq war or be labeled a leftist, liberal, terrorist!
## # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # Want to check the archives? http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/# # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## Marlon, It looks like you have crawled out from under your rock to continue your vile diatribes. Until then the dialog on goanet had been heated but quite civil. Goanet readers of all stripes have shown they are quite capable of debating me and interpreting my comments without your mean-spirited and bilious assistance. I don't attack anyone personally, Marlon, unless they start levying vicious, emotional personal attacks as you have just done, including comments by Chris Vaz, who has not posted any comments on this forum, without any context or detail. Are goanet readers just supposed to believe your opinion of someone else? Who quit and made you the boss? Observing that someone who has criticized every detail of the regime change in Iraq may be a Saddam supporter is hardly a personal attack. Why else would they oppose the removal of such a brutal dictator and his replacement with a democracy? If they are not supporters of Saddam, they should be quite capable of explaining their staunch opposition to his regime change. 48% of the US electorate who did not vote for Bush are not staunch defenders of Saddam. Only those who steadfastly and relentlessly oppose any opportunity for the Iraqis to decide their own fate, as Saddam did. As you must know, even if you followed only the left-wing media, John Kerry also supported the Iraq war, before he opposed it, and had threatened to be even more aggressive than Bush had been, before he threatened to withdraw the troops from Iraq, and then said he would not leave before the country could be protected by the Iraqis. On balance, he supported the removal of Saddam Hussein. So, Marlon, let's see if you are capable of going beyond trying to intimidate people with your bile and insults and engaging in a civil debate: a) We all know that Saddam was a brutal dictator, b) We all know that the US, using UN resolution 1441 as a legal excuse, formed a coalition and deposed him, c) We all now know that the key members of the UN that opposed the coalition had a conflict of interest and were involved with Saddam in looting the country to the tune of some DOUBLE DIGIT BILLIONS OF DOLLARS. SO, WITH PLENTY OF BLAME TO GO AROUND ON BOTH SIDES, WHY THE HELL ARE SO MANY INDIANS, WHO APPRECIATE THEIR OWN FREEDOM AND DEMOCRACY, NITPICKING EVERY DETAIL AND OPPOSING THE OPPORTUNITY FOR THE IRAQI PEOPLE TO LIVE IN FREEDOM AND DEMOCRACY? IF THE IRAQIS ARE MASOCHISTS AND WANT TO CONTINUE TO BE BRUTALIZED THEY CAN VOTE THE BAATHISTS BACK INTO POWER, WHO WILL RELEASE SADDAM, AND EVERYONE WILL LIVE HAPPILY EVER AFTER. WON'T THEY? SO, WHY NOT LET THE IRAQI PEOPLE DECIDE? WHAT SAY YOU, MARLON? Marlon Menezes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ## # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # Want to check the archives? http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/ # # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## According to Mario's totally warped logic, 48% of the US electorate who did not vote for Bush supports Saddam, which leads him to the generalized conclusion that they sympathized with the terrorists! But then again, his friend Chris Vaz also made a generalized and very offensive link between Tariq's relgion, the muslims in Michigan and their apparent blanket support for terrorism. I suggest that these two in a box intolerant individuals be ignored. A quick search reveals that Mario has made it a habit to attack individuals on a variety of other non Goan forums on the net. This consistent mode of reverting to irrelevant attacks, suggests to me that there may be a deeper psychological issue involved than just the war, terrorism, Saddam or even the caste system. Peter, Vivian etc have made their case supporting Bush and the war, without engaging in personal attacks against those who did not agree with them. While we continue to disagree on many of the fundamentals, it was still possible to engage in rational debates with them. Marlon --- Mario Goveia wrote: By the way, since you are such a staunch defender of Saddam Hussein, you must have thought he and his sadistic sons were great guys, and you must really be opposed to freedom and democracy for the Iraqi people. --- Tariq Siddiqui wrote: Therein lies the problem with people like you. You cannot comprehend the fact that there exist ordinary people around the world whose opposition to a certain policy does not make them supportive of the opposite of
Re: [Goanet]Re: The world dodged a bullet on Nov. 2
## # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # Want to check the archives? http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/# # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## --- Mario Goveia [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Cute answer, Tariq, but lacking in any substance. Wouldn't your case be a lot stronger if you could advance a theory that fits ALL the actual and circumstantial evidence that I have listed, about what may have happened to Iraq's WMD? Since we know the WMDs were used previously, and they admitted having them in 1991, but neither accounted for thereafter nor found by the coalition as yet, what do you think could have happened to them? I do not have to think about what happened to them. The IAEA does a good job and here is what they said As of 16 December 1998, the following assessment could be made of Iraq's clandestine programme: There were no indications to suggest that Iraq was successful in its attempt to produce nuclear weapons. Iraq's explanation of its progress towards the finalisation of a workable design for its nuclear weapons was considered to be consistent with the resources and time scale indicated by the available programme documentation. Iraq was at, or close to, the threshold of success in such areas as the production of HEU through the EMIS process, the production and pilot cascading of single-cylinder sub-critical gas centrifuge machines, and the fabrication of the explosive package for a nuclear weapon There were no indications to suggest that Iraq had produced more than a few grams of weapons-grade nuclear material through its indigenous processes. There were no indications that Iraq otherwise clandestinely acquired weapons-usable material All the safeguarded research reactor fuel was verified and fully accounted for by the IAEA and removed from Iraq. There were no indications that there remains in Iraq any physical capability for the production of amounts of weapons-usable nuclear material of any practical significance. The link for this is provided here: http://www.iaea.org/worldatom/Programmes/ActionTeam/nwp2.html The same report also provides account of the Nuclear Material that you believe still missing. In addition, please refer to Santosh Helekar's mail for the US report. -Tariq __ Do you Yahoo!? The all-new My Yahoo! - Get yours free! http://my.yahoo.com
Re: [Goanet]RE: RE: Arafat, Palestine
## # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # Want to check the archives? http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/# # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## --- Alfred de Tavares [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: To get the record straingt would the pundit of Palestine problems, kindly, inform the uninnitiated if , since the inception of Israelli democracy, any legitimate Palestinian candidate has been prevented from contesting in the elections to the Knesset, or any other elected body, in Israel? Further, if any of those duly elected been prevented from taking their due place in the house and/or effectively pursuing his/hers parliamentary activity/ies? Such details, statistically and, if possible, chronologically submited, would be greatly welcome for historical edification and enhance the solidly enhance the whines of the non-barkers. First of all, there is no Palestinian in the Israeli Knesset. There are approximately 10-12 Arabs in the Knesset. They are from the Israeli Arab community who account for approximately 20% of the population of Israel. They are not to be confused with the Palestinians from the West Bank and Gaza Strip who are not given Israeli citizenship, or the right to vote in the Israeli election. In other words, Israel wants the land of West Bank and Gaza, but not the people who live in it. The Israeli Arabs in the Knesset have often tried to represent the interests of the Palestinian community at large, but found themselves disqualified if they overstep their bounds. -Tariq __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: [Goanet]RE: Questions about Hindu caste?
## # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # Want to check the archives? http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/# # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## Cip Fernandes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Now, as he is the most intelligent liberal Hindu (by birth only) Goanetter why is he reluctant to denounce publicly his so-called inherited Saraswat Brahmin caste on Goanet? Cip, Someone must have told you by now that the so called caste you inherited, is nothing more than an urban legend. Regardless of what caste was assigned to you, just try and purge the caste system from your mind. That way, you will not need to spend your life in misery, waiting for others that you consider higher classes to denounce the system. Mervyn2.0 __ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca
[Goanet]A Play all must see -- Francis, a man in a hurry.
## # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # Want to check the archives? http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/# # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## Dear Goa-Netter's, I am assisting the Pilar Fathers 'Francis, a man in a hurry'. I went today to see it. Despite the constraints faced, it has come out really good beside the fact that it has been produced on a shoestring budget. I have been promoting it on Good Morning Lord which now has crossed 200,000 listeners. Its a play you all must see. The English shows are at 4:00pm daily till Sunday (Hindi daily at 2:00pm). As its free the seating is 'first come first serve', its better to go with a pass in hand than to get one at the gate. Regards to all, Boni (Boromor J. Dias) Founder Faith Works! - Producer Sponsor of GD Morning Lord) PS: see details of the play below. Tell your friends too about it on the last line is locations where the passes can be collected. Francis, a man in a hurry (A musical - dance - drama on the occasion of the Exposition of the sacred relics of St. Francis Xavier) On the occasion the Exposition of the relics of St. Francis Xavier, the Society of Pilar will present 'Francis a man in a hurry' a dance drama at the Pastoral Institute, Old Goa starting from 22nd November to 28th November. The show which will be presented in English and Hindi is intended to help pilgrims reflect on the life of St. Francis Xavier. 'FRANCIS, A MAN IN A HURRY' looks at Francis' life as that of any young modern man in a competitive world who was in a hurry to conquer the world's honor and fame. A subtle challenge to his mundane aspirations from Ignatius Loyola rattled his paradigms and set him on a pilgrimage to meet the divine within the inner most depths of his being. This inner pilgrimage turned his world upside down. However he continued being a man in a hurry. Except that this time his great hurry is chanelised to win the world for God. The entire drama is well corroborated by reflective dances and thoughtful music. It calls the youth to draw inspiration and conviction while they attend to their day to day chores. The Hindi version is called Francis; Shigratha mein ek manushya. This will be performed by a special cast from Delhi and Jharkhand, while the English version has a young and promising set of student actors from Goa. Conceived and written by Fr. Allan Tavares, the music is set by Fr. Nixon D'Silva and the directed by Fr. Domnic Alvares. The Hindi show will be held at 2 pm and the English show will commence at 4 pm. The Dance Drama is a production of the Society of the Missionaries of St. Francis Xavier, popularly known as the Society of Pilar, an indigenous Missionary Society based in Pilar, Goa. The Society of Pilar which has its branches spread in the rural places of India, has St. Francis Xavier as its heavenly Patron and draws inspiration from his life in reference to its mission of spreading love, peace and justice. Limited seats. Complementary entry passes are available at Re-animation Centre, Pilar; Pilar Office Panaji, Pilar Deepti Sadan, Porvorim, Grace Church, Margao
Re: [Goanet]IA engine fails mid-air with 250 people
## # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # Want to check the archives? http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/# # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## This is why the A300 is known as a SCAREBUS in the industry, not an Airbus! One of my brothers and I were on a flight out of JFK to SFO a short while ago which had to turn back after 20 minutes of flight due to a complete loss of navigational systems. A blank panel in front of the pilots! Thank God it was a clear day and the Captain was able to make a visual approach back into JFK. When we boarded the flight attendants were telling everyone, This is a new aircraft, only two days old! Of course they meant two days in service at America West, unless they brought it to America on a boat. ;-)) Air turnbacks are not fun. Viviana Eddie Verdes wrote: The flight IC 598, an Airbus 300, left Goas Dabolim airport for Mumbai at around 10.45 am.
[Goanet]Late Deals: Gatwick/Goa
## # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # Want to check the archives? http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/# # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## Late Deals: Gatwick/Goa. 2 weeks return prices Dep 26 Nov: £170. Dep. 3 Dec: £210. Premium seats available for £100 supplement. Contact: Val Rozario, Take Flight Travel, Tel 0870 5561 532. [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.791 / Virus Database: 535 - Release Date: 08/11/2004
Re: [Goanet]Re: The world dodged a bullet on Nov. 2
## # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # Want to check the archives? http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/# # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## Cornel, For the second time today I'm going to surprise you by agreeing with some, but not all, that you have said in this post. There is much to criticize the US for for policies throughout history. We who live in the US do it all the time as you would know if you followed the recent campaign. However, for being such an evil place as you try and make it out to be based on a few selected examples that you obviously think are critical to the overall record, the fact remains that it is one of the few places in the world that people risk their lives to get into, to the tune of around 3 million a year illegally, and a couple of million legally. If it were all that you would like to believe, people would be risking their lives to get the hell out. I will give you one example that will DRIVE YOU AND OTHER ANTI-AMERICANS NUTS, but it was spoken by a European leader who obviously disagrees with you, BASED ON THE TOTAL RECORD. Silvio Berlusconi, Prime Minister of Italy, said this and I quote: We don't see the US just as a friend, but as the guarantor of our security. We don't see the Stars and Stripes as just the US flag, but as a symbol of freedom and democracy around the world. And at the Memorial Services at Normandy on June 6, he said again, and I quote: These are people who gave thgeir lives to set us free. Visit any one of our military cemeteries in Italy, at Anzio, Montereggio, Palermo and all the others, and read the names on the headstones, names like Bradley and O'Connor, Jackson and Sanchez. Look at their ages. These young Americans came to rescue us and gave their lives so we could be free. Then come and talk to me about America. As an America-hater, Cornel, I will excuse so you can go puke. So, Cornel, I will now ask you the same question I am posing to those who oppose the action in Iraq. See if you can focus and respond with specifics if you choose to: a) We all know that Saddam was a brutal dictator, b) We all know that the US, using UN resolution 1441 as a legal excuse, formed a coalition and deposed him, c) We all now know that the key members of the UN that opposed the coalition had a conflict of interest and were involved with Saddam in looting the country to the tune of some DOUBLE DIGIT BILLIONS OF DOLLARS. SO, WITH PLENTY OF BLAME TO GO AROUND ON BOTH SIDES, WHY THE HELL ARE SO MANY INDIANS, WHO APPRECIATE THEIR OWN FREEDOM AND DEMOCRACY, NITPICKING EVERY DETAIL AND OPPOSING THE OPPORTUNITY FOR THE IRAQI PEOPLE TO LIVE IN FREEDOM AND DEMOCRACY? IF THE IRAQIS ARE MASOCHISTS AND WANT TO CONTINUE TO BE BRUTALIZED THEY CAN VOTE THE BAATHISTS BACK INTO POWER, WHO WILL RELEASE SADDAM, AND EVERYONE WILL LIVE HAPPILY EVER AFTER. WON'T THEY? SO, WHY NOT LET THEM DECIDE? --- cornel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ## # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # Want to check the archives? http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/# # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## Mario, Many thanks for your considered reply. Unfortunately, I simply do not have the time at present, much as I would like, to pursue this thread of our discussion. Clearly, we are poles apart about the virtues of the USA as a super power, minimally, because for me, the USA is ready to uphold many a tyrant and eliminate even democratically elected governments it does not approve of and Chile comes readily to mind. You may recall the American general saying about Samoza (or some other right wing tyrant) that he may be a son of a bitch, but he is our son of a bitch. As to spreading democracy, Bush coos over this about Afghanistan but all that has happened there is that an American puppet has been installed and the warlords are really in charge. And do try telling the displaced people of Diego Garcia that Bush and his poodle, Blair, are promoting their freedom!! There is much for America to be proud of itself, even though it is unfairly consuming the world's resources like there is no tomorrow. I happen to share the views of those Americans (almost 50%) who do not share your rose-tinted view of America but have hopes that it will change for the better. Regards, Cornel
Re: [Goanet]RE: Questions about Hindu caste?
## # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # Want to check the archives? http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/# # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## Finally, a bottom line kind of guy. God be praised! Rene, my suggestion is to just oppose it on moral and religious grounds, whenever and wherever it rears it's ugly head. I remember infuriating my Grandmother when I was a teenager when I told her she had to go to confession every time she spoke disparagingly about someone based on their caste. Drove her bonkers at first, but she eventually got the point. I have friends and relatives, Hindus and Catholics, who have married the most wonderful people outside their supposed castes and others who have been treated like crap by their families, some even disinherited, so I take this issue very seriously. --- rene barreto [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ## # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # Want to check the archives? http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/# # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## Writing or talking does not help eliminate CASTE , action does. Do WE have any suggestions as to how this CASTE problem can be addressed ? If so please share them with us on this Goan Forum. LETS begin TODAY. rene - Original Message - From: Mario Goveia [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2004 3:19 AM Subject: Re: [Goanet]RE: Questions about Hindu caste? Mervyn, Maybe you are used to talking to yourself. The rest of us need to know what the heck you are talking about. Mervyn Lobo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mario Goveia wrote: Cip was saying that someone who is no longer a Hindu is probably not the best person to opine on this regiously based issue. As the Hispanics, say, Comprende? Mario, You either live in a fantasy world or have problems comprehending simple sentences. Mervyn2.0
Re: [Goanet]Re: The world dodged a bullet on Nov. 2
## # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # Want to check the archives? http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/# # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## Santosh, You are so full of [EMAIL PROTECTED], pardon my French, that it is a waste of time arguing with you about an attitude we can all read in your words. So, let me focus your mind and ask you to respond. Forget the rest. Believe me, I have nothing against you personally. I don't even know you, for Christ's sake. (Saiba bogus!) I have asked Tariq the same question, so I am not discriminating against you. Here's the bottom line, and I'm going to repeat it until I get a straight answer: a) We all know that Saddam was a brutal dictator, b) We all know that the US, using UN resolution 1441 as a legal excuse, formed a coalition and deposed him, c) We all now know that the key members of the UN that opposed the coalition had a conflict of interest and were involved with Saddam in looting the country to the tune of some DOUBLE DIGIT BILLIONS OF DOLLARS. SO, WITH PLENTY OF BLAME TO GO AROUND ON BOTH SIDES, WHY THE HELL ARE SO MANY INDIANS, WHO APPRECIATE THEIR OWN FREEDOM AND DEMOCRACY, NITPICKING EVERY DETAIL AND OPPOSING THE OPPORTUNITY FOR THE IRAQI PEOPLE TO LIVE IN FREEDOM AND DEMOCRACY? IF THE IRAQIS ARE MASOCHISTS AND WANT TO CONTINUE TO BE BRUTALIZED THEY CAN VOTE THE BAATHISTS BACK INTO POWER, WHO WILL RELEASE SADDAM, AND EVERYONE WILL LIVE HAPPILY EVER AFTER. WON'T THEY? SO, WHY NOT LET THEM DECIDE? --- Santosh Helekar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ## # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # Want to check the archives? http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/# # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## --- Mario Goveia [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Santosh, I have no intentions of smearing you, just debating the issues, but if the shoe fits I'm afraid I must ask you to wear it. It is clear from the above post, and the abuses, character assassination, prejudices and lies contained in it that Mario Goveia is incapable of defending against my charge that the Iraq war was based on a lie. He fails to defend the casus belli for this illegal war, namely the existence of WMDs and the purported imminent threat that they posed to the U.S. Like the politicians that he supports, Mr. Goveia does not have the honesty and the decency to unconditionally admit that it is now well established that there were no WMDs in Iraq just before the war, and there are none there at present. He has been reduce to demonizing me, calling me names, making baseless prejudiced statements against me, and lying and distorting the facts. And despite all this he fancies himself to be a superior logician and custodian of the choicest facts. In this post I will avoid, as far as possible, responding to Mr. Goveias abusive personal attacks against me. Suffice it to say that this aspect of his post illustrates how well he has been indoctrinated in the tactics and practices of the right wing hate mob in the U.S. His post is a poignant example almost a caricature - of the intellectual dishonesty and bankruptcy that afflicts partisan hacks on either side of the political divide in this country. I will mostly address below only the factual contradictions, distortions and post-hoc rationalizations that he has propagated in his post. mount a vicious and relentless attack on the liberation of a country that has been brutalized by dictator, has never known freedom and democracy, hasthen yell Bloody murder! when someone wonders why. The above is a load of gratuitous hogwash designed to disguise the fact that the Iraq war was based on a lie. Not knowing you makes me more objective, don't you think? I wonder which part of Mr. Goveias post reveals himself to be objective. The part where he calls me a huge supporter of Saddam Hussein? Or the one where he calls me a diehard anti-American and anti-Semite? Here is a classic example of why I think you are a huge supporter of Saddam Hussein. If you don't know that Iraq used WMDs against Iran, the Kurds at Halabja (5,000 innocent civilians dead in one day) and the Marsh Shia in the Tigris-Euphrates delta then you need to do some research and PLEASE stop embarrassing yourself. Here Mr. Goveia fantasizes that my knowledge is more limited than his. His ignorance about what I know and what I dont know does not prevent him from drawing a prejudiced conclusion, complete with a
Re: [Goanet]Re: The world dodged a bullet on Nov. 2
## # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # Want to check the archives? http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/# # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## Tariq, Nice try, but isn't it you, and the others who support your point of view, who are opposing dissent by opposing freedom and democracy for the Iraqi people? You don't like it when I mention it, but you are mounting such a die-hard attack on anything or anyone who supports freedom and democracy for the Iraqis that I am at a loss for any other description that fits. Here's the bottom line, and I'm going to repeat it until I get a straight answer: a) We all know that Saddam was a brutal dictator, b) We all know that the US, using UN resolution 1441 as a legal excuse, formed a coalition and deposed him, c) We all now know that the key members of the UN that opposed the coalition had a conflict of interest and were involved with Saddam in looting the country to the tune of some DOUBLE DIGIT BILLIONS OF DOLLARS. SO, WITH PLENTY OF BLAME TO GO AROUND ON BOTH SIDES, WHY THE HELL ARE SO MANY INDIANS, WHO APPRECIATE THEIR OWN FREEDOM AND DEMOCRACY, NITPICKING EVERY DETAIL AND OPPOSING THE OPPORTUNITY FOR THE IRAQI PEOPLE TO LIVE IN FREEDOM AND DEMOCRACY? IF THE IRAQIS ARE MASOCHISTS AND WANT TO CONTINUE TO BE BRUTALIZED THEY CAN VOTE THE BAATHISTS BACK INTO POWER, WHO WILL RELEASE SADDAM, AND EVERYONE WILL LIVE HAPPILY EVER AFTER. WON'T THEY? SO, WHY NOT LET THEM DECIDE? Tariq, you have to know that there are some non-Muslims who believe that democracy is not good enough for Muslims. But how the hell can you, as a Muslim, oppose freedom and democracy for fellow Muslims, well knowing that there are very few Muslim democracies, and well knowing that Muslims who live in true democracies like Britain, Canada, the US, Australia, NZ and India all agree that they are better of in every possible way than living under the heel of the militants that control daily life in all the Muslim countries? If its good enough for you, why not for the Iraqis, and all the others? Notice that I have excluded the European countries because I believe their committment to democracy is skin deep, based on the recent OFFICIAL GOVERNMENT reactions to Muslims in France and the Netherlands. --- Tariq Siddiqui [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ## # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # Want to check the archives? http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/# # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## --- Mario Goveia [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: See my comments below under Responses. By the way, since you are such a staunch defender of Saddam Hussein, you must have thought he and his sadistic sons were great guys, and you must really be opposed to freedom and democracy for the Iraqi people. Therein lies the problem with people like you. You cannot comprehend the fact that there exist ordinary people around the world whose opposition to a certain policy does not make them supportive of the opposite of that policy. Just because I did not support the war in Iraq, does not make me, or the millions like me, a supporter of Saddam Hussein. You prefer to see things that way only because you cannot tolerate dissent or comprehend objectivity. -Tariq __ Do you Yahoo!? Meet the all-new My Yahoo! - Try it today! http://my.yahoo.com
Re: [Goanet]VoicesofIraq.com
## # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # Want to check the archives? http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/# # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## Good point, Tariq. Which is why it is so important to read multiple sources of news with an eye towards weasel words and bias, and to follow non-partisan investigative reports where there are checks and balances. These two gentlemen are people who actually live and work in Iraq, have lost friends and relatives in the conflict, and openly admit that their bias is towards the positive things that are happening there, while recognizing that a small faction of the 25 million Iraqis are still objecting, for one reason or another, to the freedom and democracy that is developing there. What I don't understand is while, a) We all know that Saddam was a brutal dictator, b) We all know that the US, using UN resolution 1441 as a legal excuse, formed a coalition and deposed him, c) We all now know that the key members of the UN that opposed the coalition had a conflict of interest and were involved with Saddam in looting the country to the tune of some DOUBLE DIGIT BILLIONS OF DOLLARS. SO, WITH PLENTY OF BLAME TO GO AROUND, WHY THE HELL ARE SO MANY INDIANS, WHO APPRECIATE THEIR OWN FREEDOM AND DEMOCRACY, NITPICKING EVERY DETAIL AND OPPOSING THE OPPORTUNITY FOR THE IRAQI PEOPLE TO LIVE IN FREEDOM AND DEMOCRACY? IF THE IRAQIS ARE MASOCHISTS AND WANT TO CONTINUE TO BE BRUTALIZED THEY CAN VOTE THE BAATHISTS BACK INTO POWER, WHO WILL RELEASE SADDAM, AND EVERYONE WILL LIVE HAPPILY EVER AFTER. WON'T THEY? --- Tariq Siddiqui [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ## # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # Want to check the archives? http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/# # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## --- Mario Goveia [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: They claimed that they have been amazed at the coverage of the events in Iraq in the world and especially the American media. They claim that the media spends 100% of coverage on less than 10% of the conflict that remains in the country of 25 million people and zero percent on the reconstruction that is going on right now. That same media also focused on the violence during the Saddam Hussein regime. -Tariq __ Do you Yahoo!? Meet the all-new My Yahoo! - Try it today! http://my.yahoo.com
Re: [Goanet] Questions about Hindu caste?
## # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # Want to check the archives? http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/# # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## Santosh, Instead of verbally fighting with Cip, who is probably trying to get under your skin, and since you obviously disagree with the caste system, why don't you simply stick with denouncing it among Hindus, as I have denounced it among Catholics? The end. Let those who defend the caste system then continue the dialog, and continue to live by it. The rest of us can consign it to the dustbin of history where it rightly belongs. --- Santosh Helekar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ## # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # Want to check the archives? http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/# # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## --- Cip Fernandes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It appears that Dr. Santosh Helekar is a Hindu not by conviction but by birth, inheriting so-called Saraswat Brahmin caste, which is very close to his heart. Now, either Cipriano does not know what he is talking about or he is deliberately trying to insult me by calling me a Saraswat Brahmin, and by making an outrageous charge that my so-called Saraswat Brahmin caste is very close to my heart. The truth is Cipriano knows nothing about me and my attitude towards my caste. He has also not bothered to find out before making baseless accusations. However, he believes in his inherited so-called Saraswat Brahmin caste and he is holding tight to it. Not content with using a casteist slur against me, he continues to lie about me. Does he deliberately misunderstand me when I state that I do not hold the convictions of the religion of my ancestors? I challenge him to show us how he knows that I believe in my caste. Now, as he is the most intelligent liberal Hindu (by birth only) Goanetter why is he reluctant to denounce publicly his so-called inherited Saraswat Brahmin caste on Goanet? What a joke! Does Cipriano just want me to say that I denounce my so-called inherited Saraswat Brahmin caste on Goanet? Well, Folks on Goanet, here I go. I denounce my so-called inherited saraswat brahmin caste on Goanet. Or is he confusing denounce with renounce? If he is then would he believe me if I told him that I have already renounced my caste and the practices of casteism in my own life many years ago? That is exactly what I have done. That is why calling me a saraswat brahmin or any such name is an insult to me. I know, this post and any number of others like it would make no difference to Cipriano as regards his attitude towards me. In all likelihood he would continue to believe what he wants to believe. After all, ironically, those who wrongly accuse others of discrimination and prejudice by definition suffer from prejudice themselves. Cheers, Santosh
Re: [Goanet]Re: The world dodged a bullet on Nov. 2
## # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # Want to check the archives? http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/# # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## Cute answer, Tariq, but lacking in any substance. Wouldn't your case be a lot stronger if you could advance a theory that fits ALL the actual and circumstantial evidence that I have listed, about what may have happened to Iraq's WMD? Since we know the WMDs were used previously, and they admitted having them in 1991, but neither accounted for thereafter nor found by the coalition as yet, what do you think could have happened to them? --- Tariq Siddiqui [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ## # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # Want to check the archives? http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/# # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## --- Mario Goveia [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Santosh, Since you seem so upset that Saddam has been removed by the evil George Bush, you must think he was a great guy and you must therefore also be opposed to freedom and democracy for the Iraqi people. You seem to be one of those people who is too intelligent by half. See if you can follow this simple sequential logic: 1. Before 1991 there was evidence of WMDs in Iraq. Just ask the Iranis, Kurds and Shia that these were used on. 2. In 1991 there was evidence of WMDs, because the UN has a signed agreement by Saddam acknowledging his WMDs and promising to destroy these and provide the UN with an accounting. 3. From 1991 to 2003 the UN Security Council passed 17 resolutions asking for the accounting that Saddam never provided, even though the consequence of the first 16 were crippling sanctions and of the 17th was the loss of his dictatorship and his sadistic sons. 4. Physics tells us that matter does not disappear. It has to be accounted for. 5. The coalition has not found the WMDs as yet. 6. Ipso facto, the WMDs cannot have disappeared, they have not been accounted for, they have not been found as yet, so they must be either still hidden somewhere in Iraq, or in Syria as suspected. I am suprised you did not say that they could have also been taken by UFOs . -Tariq __ Do you Yahoo!? Meet the all-new My Yahoo! - Try it today! http://my.yahoo.com
[Goanet]I demand apology from Joel :-)
## # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # Want to check the archives? http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/# # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## Dear Goanetters, The good book tells us, When a wiseman argueth with a fool; whether he laughs or he raves, there is no end. After a long, off-net discussion with Samir Kelekar[ with quite a few folks in the loop]:I see the wisdom of those ancient words. Never in my life has any literate person brought my children into a discussion with me by connecting a subject of discussion to an unrelated topic. How low can one get and still expect respect? That Samir Kelekar is a bachelor[ and has no known daughters] is no excuse for him to write loosely about girls in Goa; whether Goan or not, unless he can substantiate it. .. Frederick Noronha(FN) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote On Sun, 21 Nov 2004, jerry fernandes wrote: Hello Samir I read your article, and was surprised that you are demanding an apology from Joel. We Goans who are far away from Goa, appreciate the good work that Joel does by providing us the daily dose of the news of Don't take it too seriously Jerry. This doesn't seem to have been targeted at Joel. I just think this was Samir's way of responding to those who have been demanding an *apology* from *him* (Samir) on the 100-girls issue. On a more serious note, one can't help wonder how strong a gene we Goans have in reducing almost every debate into a name-calling, slanging match between individuals and personalities, rather than allowing it to be a battle of ideas that allows truth to surface and a diversity of perspectives to flow. FN Samir Kelekar wrote the following on Goa-Net on Mon Nov 1, 2004: This is what I heard from a reliable source. At a recent male-only retreat by an Indian company in a renowned 5 star hotel, *100 male members were supplied with 100 YOUNG GIRLS as companions for the evening.* The girls turned out to be LOCAL teenage girls from the surrounding villages. .I think it is time Goa legalize and regulate prostitution. ... Samir Kelekar is using the above and an archive posting on a matrimonial to obfuscate the issue that he has no evidence of the story he posted on the *100 girls and one five star hotel *and legalizing prostitution in Goa. Putting a ;-) sign does not make his postings funny at all. I am going to ignore his postings on Goanet ...or privately. viva Goa. Miguel
[Goanet]Goa's Fun image; Samir's 2nd Story
## # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # Want to check the archives? http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/# # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## Dear Samir, Your posting[ and changing of the subjet line] is NOT FUNNY. The thread is Goa's Fun image:Samir's Story Your postings are DISGRACEFUL, the opposite of your email ID [EMAIL PROTECTED] . My wife is as FAIR as your reference to her in this context is UNFAIR. ... TOP POSTS AS ORIGINALLY APPROVED BY ADMIN TEAM. Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 19:14:02 +0500 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Goanet]Response to Miguel Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Miguel: You seem to still have the itch of not keeping quiet. 1) First of all, you owe an apology on Goanet for your bigoted comments about the dark people. You are not going to get away with it. It is comments like yours that perpetuate the myth that fair is good, and dark is bad. How fair are you? ***How fair is your wife and family? Let us deal with this and get it out of the way before we deal with other issues. regards, Samir My dear Samir, An District and Sessions Court Judge has denied bail to Altaf Sayyad of Gogolunder Section 8[2] of the GOA CHILDRENS ACT,2003 read with IPC Section 376 and 342. He has been jailed based on prima facie evidence of rape produced by the Public Prosecutor Sarojini Sardinha. Question of consensual sex does not arise as the girl is a minor. It is mandatory rape. For details read Goamntak Times page 1,Col.7 dated 20 Nov.[www.gomantaktimes.com]. The girl and her mother have stood their ground. What is your evidence against the 5-Star hotel and the 100 girls alleged by YOU [ You are unable to upline your sources...perhaps because there are none;-( .] to have been 'procured' or 'supplied' ? In fact, WHAT is your case? - Original Message - From: Samir Kelekar [EMAIL PROTECTED] Damn it , who is scandalizing whom here? Josebab, can you see a victim here? I can't. Heck, Joel needs to apologize for this* scandal-mongering;* and that too on the Internet. regards, Samir From Joel's news clip of two days back: POLITICIANS BACKING RAPE ACCUSED, ALLEGES VICTIM: In another murky turn to the almost forgotten murky Margao rape case, the 17-year-old rage victim and her mother are facing continuous threat from local goons to settle the case and not press charges. They have alleged that some local politicians are supporting the accused Altaf Sayyed, who has earlier been arrested for similar and related crimes. (GT) ... There is no point scurrying for every 'cover' that you see. The cover is just a mirage. First you were willing to give details to Rajan Narayan,then to Fredrick Noronhha. First you digress to Calangute beach, now to Margao. * scandal-mongering;* is what you have been doing right from the point you started this thread,Samir. APOLOGISE [ on Goanet, where you posted the carnard about 100 Goan girls] if you are a man. Hold your peace if you are a wimp. . Samir, you are fair SKINNED and can have no offence about being called DARK. If there is any dark complexioned person who was offended by my spoof on a matrimonial [not on dark persons], let them speak up. No one has done so far. The spoof was not offensive at all. I will apologise ,if the need arises. I am not a Samir. OFFENSE is not always the best form of defence,specially when one uses offensive postings to defend the indefensible.. That is like wearing a condom to prevent getting HIV-AIDS ..the second time! You have my sympathy. Pity ,may be a better word for that. Viva Goa. Miguel Viva Goa. Miguel
[Goanet]Some views about the 'other' Goa
## # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # Want to check the archives? http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/# # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## http://www.indiamike.com/india/showthread.php?t=7492highlight=Goa I went to a few parties in anjuna about 10 years ago and have always thought they,d never be what they were. The dominant image of goa in the uk now is package tour sum loungers and middle aged brits opening bars like spain a few years back. I,d be very glad to have this myth demolished. I think the sun rise on anjuna beach with people dancing ine sea would be almost unspoilable if it still happens? Nov 6, 2004 It's very hot in Goa now. I'm sitting in the Primrose writing this and the temperature is a sweltering 31 C. I saw a few bikes parked outside the 9 Bar this evening but you can forget about parties for the time being. Last night was full moon and the only thing happening was at the Paradisdo but who wants to go there? Besides they charge admission and it's the wrong kind of crowd anyway. Lots of people on Vagator beach during the day and Curley's in Anjuna is a good place to hang out also. Oct 28, 2004 Frederick Noronha 784 Near Convent, Sonarbhat SALIGAO GOA India Freelance Journalist TEL: +91-832-2409490 MOBILE: 9822122436 http://fn.swiki.net http://www.livejournal.com/users/goalinks fred at bytesforall.org http://www.bytesforall.org
Re: [Goanet]RE: Questions about Hindu caste?
## # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # Want to check the archives? http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/# # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## Cornel: An excellent post on Hinduism. Although a Catholic by religion, and having never lived in India even though I was born there (my mother travelled from Kenya to give birth because of the primitive conditions then obtaining in Kenya), I still feel close to the cultural Hindu way of life. However, you say: I think it would be possible to be brought up a Catholic and be one culturally without continuing to accept that there is a God. I do not agree with you here. To me it is an anachronism - and I doubt if you will find much support for that concept. Tim de Mello [EMAIL PROTECTED] CANADA
Re: [Goanet]Re: Questions about Hindu caste?
## # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # Want to check the archives? http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/# # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## Frederick, Thanks for the sermon, similar to what we hear every Sunday. However, what do you think specifically about castes among Catholics and the effects in today's society. Frederick Noronha (FN) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ## # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # Want to check the archives? http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/ # # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## It's very easy to poke fun about the beliefs of *others* and to advice *them* on how *they* should be changing. This is what the holier-than-thou far-Right Hindutva elements have been doing with the minorities in India. (Muslims should treat their women better; they need to reform their religion; Christians should treat other religions as equals -- never mind if that means giving up monotheism.) This is also what some Goanetters have been doing, preaching to those who come from a different religious background and happen to be on Goanet. We tend to see the world from our own perspectives. To us, *everything* that *we* do looks right and correct. Conversely, the faith, belief and practice of others looks wonky and upside down. What was it that the Bible was saying about the speck and/or log in one's own eye? Instead of preaching to others, let's start by criticising and reforming ourselves. Our own religions, cultures, belief-systems could do with a lot of mending. Reform, like charity, best begins at home. FN Frederick Noronha (FN) Nr Convent Saligao 403511 GoaIndia Freelance Journalist P: 832-2409490 M: 9822122436 http://www.livejournal.com/users/goalinks http://fn.swiki.net http://www.ryze.com/go/fredericknoronha http://fn-floss.notlong.com Difficulties to send email across? Write to fredericknoronha at vsnl.net Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments See http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html
[Goanet]RE: Questions about Hindu caste?
## # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # Want to check the archives? http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/# # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## rene barreto [EMAIL PROTECTED] asked: Do WE have any suggestions as to how this CASTE problem can be addressed ? Answer: E D U C A T I O N Tim de Mello [EMAIL PROTECTED] CANADA
[Goanet]TULSI LAGN -- in amchem Goem
## # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # Want to check the archives? http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/# # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## Goans belonging to the Hindu community celebrated today 23rd November 2004 one of the festivals that has delighted Goans -the Tulsi Lagn (marriage of a basil plant) Today at noon the Hindus prepared food which is strictly non vegetarian ---consisting of rice, moong , puri , sweet potato kheer , pumpkin cooked with pieces of sugarcane, amla and tamarind and some of this is offered to the Tulsi Vrindavan. Then by dusk one could witness a Lagn read marriage ceremony) . The bride and bridegroom undergoing the rituals were the tulsi (basil plant) and the sugarcane The tulsi vrindavan (decorative pot in front of the house is coloured and decorated ) Sugarcane and branches of tamarind and amla trees are planted along with the tulsi plant. Thereafter after the ritualistic offering of poha or fou to Lord Vishnu prassad was distributed among family members and friends. The myth abounds that the Vrinda married King Julundhar a demon. Vrinda prayed to Lord Vishnu that her demon husband be protected, so that no harm came to him form other gods. However on the request of the other gods, Lord Vishnu adopted the form of King Julundhar and stayed with the unsuspecting Vrinda Following Julundhar's death, Vrinda learnt of this deception and went wil. She cursed Lord Vishnu and turned him to stone (Shaligram) and collapsed. It is believed that from her body emerged the tulsi plant. That is why Tulsi vivah ceremony is celebrated on the next day of Kartiki Akadashi. On this day tulsi is married to Shaligram. While the ritual above links to the religious aspect. the social aspect cannot be left out in Goan Hindu homes it is traditional for the family to send an OJEM (load of sweets) to the daughter from her parental home along with zodi (cotton threads used to light lamp while performing aarti). These were predominant traditions during the days of joint families. Surprisingly this writer witnessed this function in a village in Mobor Cavelossim Salcete South Goa late this evening. With every Goan male and female at work and the day being not a public holiday such festivities take place late. Tommorrow will be the Dindi festival in Margao at Lord Vithal and Rukmini Temple in Comba. The streets are being lined up with traditional kadio boddio Laddoos and for games traditional godgoddo. This writer has noted that in the past over twentyfive years there has been considerable economic upliftment notably amongst the bahujan samaj. One sees girls and boys and families dressed up in bright clothes with rich designs meandering the streets paying obeisance to the deities at both temples Hari Mandir Pajifond and Comba The huge trunout also provides one an opportunity of a social meeting of a different kind ---minds and hearts This festival often referred as Vodli Dipawali ends with fireworks from midnight to the wee hours of dawn. From Village Mobor - Cavelossim GODFREY J I GONSALVES Borda Margao Goa [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! India Matrimony: Find your life partner online Go to: http://yahoo.shaadi.com/india-matrimony
[Goanet]Re: 21 Nov. a red letter day Francisco Xavier
## # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # Want to check the archives? http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/# # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## Ooops! I slipped up on that detail. Mea culpa. The body of SFX was first burried on the island of Sancian...well before the re-burial at Malacca. It is ,of course not a mistake that is fatal to my posting ...as long as Sancian,Moluccas and Malacca are not in Goa. - Original Message - Miguel Braganza [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It is immaterial that Franciso de Xavier was born in Spain, came to Goa with the Portuguese and died near the Mollucca Islands tgf_coordinators [EMAIL PROTECTED] Francisco Xavier died on the Chinese Island of Sancian aka Shangchuan. Sancian is located ~10 nautical miles from the Chinese mainland. After his death, his body was transported to the Malaysia seaside city of Malacca (just south of Kuala Lumpur) The Moluccas(Maluku on the other hand - are way south in Indonesia (almost near Australia) For an article on SFX please visit : http://www.goa-world.net/sfx/ However, a mistake is a mistake. My apologies. Viva Goa. Viva Goemcho Saib. Miguel
Fw: [Goanet]Tiatr em Portugal
## # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # Want to check the archives? http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/# # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## Constantino, My apologies. In my rush I got Rui's first name wrong and called him Raul by mistake. Unfortunately, I could not locate his email address to send him a copy of the post sent to you. Sincerely, Cornel Constantino, Thank you for the info about Goan cultural activity in Portugal and specifically in Lisbon. As I take it that you live in Lisbon, I wonder if you can persuade Raul Colasco (with apologies if I have incorrectly spelt the surname) to tell us about the social scene, and especially about the Goan dance bands in former Portuguese East Africa? He had indicated his intention to do so when there was a lot of discussion about the British East African scene in the 1950s/60s initiated by Tony Barros. Thanks, Cornel
[Goanet]Idol Worship
## # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # Want to check the archives? http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/# # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## Of the many Reformation led charges against the Church, the one that endured the longest was idol worshippers. It's all so moot now with no worshippers of any stripe left in formerly christian Europe, and here we are fighting their moribund battle for 'faith' on far away Asian shores. eric. __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: [Goanet]The ten commandments
## # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # Want to check the archives? http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/# # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## Well Yes, for sure. After listening to and reading the Ten Commandments a life-time over, the word 'Thou' comes automatic to the tongue as well as the finger tips, especially when one is typing what the mind prompts. You may be right. 'Thou' is out of place in this context. Kindly substitute it with the universal U' if it will make you any happier. Besides, the 'Ten Commandments' being the figment of imagination as coming from God himself to Moses, the same coming from the King of the Jungle, when his absolute and hitherto unchallenged territory was under threat, is quite plausible. Cheers. Floriano BTW- Any mention of xembuh Moidekar , aka Xhanno Moidekar, gives me an itch to reach for the waste paper basket (read delete button). - Original Message - From: xembuh Moidekar [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2004 9:12 AM Subject: [Goanet]The ten commandments The Ten Commandments The real reason that we can't have the Ten Commandments in a Courthouse! You cannot post Thou Shalt Not Steal, Thou Shalt Not Commit Adultery and Thou Shall Not Lie in a building full of lawyers, judges and politicians! It creates a hostile work environment. Any comments Goa netters?
Re: [Goanet]Re: COST OF MULTIPLEX ...
## # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # Want to check the archives? http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/# # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## Dear George, Greetings from Goa. BTW Lok Shakti is not a registered political party. It still remains a forum. And if I am not mistaken it is slated to remain as a forum, it's president Mr. Datta Naik having gone on record at its Margao Convention that it shall not indulge in politics. I however had hoped that it would be a registered political force with certain written down ideology. We at Goa Su-Raj maintain that politics can only be fought with politics. Forums are seen as extensions of political groupings. All said and done, Goa needs good political parties who compete with each other to do better than the other. An essence of fair political competition will bring out the best in terms of benefits to the people in the name of good governance. B/rgds Floriano - Original Message - From: George Pinto [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, November 22, 2004 9:41 PM Subject: [Goanet]Re: COST OF MULTIPLEX ... --- Philip Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Both sides seem to have missed the real point of the whole issue. That is the TOTAL LACK of attention to a host of governance problems in the state Dear Philip: I do not live in Goa but occasionally visit. I have come to the conclusion that Goa has gone from one bad version of governance (Congress) to another bad version (BJP). Unfortunately, parties like Goa Suraj and Lok Shakti have a small impact though their goals are laudable. There is a growing tradition of writers (Ethel de Costa, Aires Rodrigues, Rajan Narayan, and others) who who serve a useful role. I am curious since you seem reasonable and based in Goa, as to what you think Goa needs in terms of good governance. Aires had posted 10 things on the net a few months ago, Fred Noronha posted 21 points a few years ago, and I think Mathany Saldanha had a list of 37 fix-it problems some years ago too. If I am not imposing on your time, perhaps you can share your thoughts with us. Regards, George
[Goanet]Gabe Menezes
## # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # Want to check the archives? http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/# # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## I was sitting with the Sarpanch of Bastora, Mr. Parsekar in his office in the Bastora Panchayat, discussing with him the contents of the copy of the letter to DySP Allan D'Sa re: the dumping of brick-bats at the roadside at the Moira-Bastora-Mapusa junction. When my mobile phone went: Ring Ring Hello ! Floriano ? This is Gabe here. Gabe Menezes. Hey Gabe. You must be in Goa. Yes, I'm in Margao at the moment. Flo- We must meet. Gabe- 8 P.M. at Casa Portuguesa, Baga on Friday. I want to treat you to a dinner with my friends. Bring yr. wife along. Flo- Don't know about my wife, but I shall be there. Cheers Floriano PS: Meeting a Cyber Friend for the first time is a pleasure specially when that friend is a friend of goasuraj.
Re: [Goanet]Tiatr em Portugal
## # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # Want to check the archives? http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/# # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## Constantino, Thank you for the info about Goan cultural activity in Portugal and specifically in Lisbon. As I take it that you live in Lisbon, I wonder if you can persuade Raul Colasco (with apologies if I have incorrectly spelt the surname) to tell us about the social scene, and especially about the Goan dance bands in former Portuguese East Africa? He had indicated his intention to do so when there was a lot of discussion about the British East African scene in the 1950s/60s initiated by Tony Barros. Thanks, Cornel
Re: [Goanet]Re: The world dodged a bullet on Nov. 2
## # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # Want to check the archives? http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/# # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## Mario, Many thanks for your considered reply. Unfortunately, I simply do not have the time at present, much as I would like, to pursue this thread of our discussion. Clearly, we are poles apart about the virtues of the USA as a super power, minimally, because for me, the USA is ready to uphold many a tyrant and eliminate even democratically elected governments it does not approve of and Chile comes readily to mind. You may recall the American general saying about Samoza (or some other right wing tyrant) that he may be a son of a bitch, but he is our son of a bitch. As to spreading democracy, Bush coos over this about Afghanistan but all that has happened there is that an American puppet has been installed and the warlords are really in charge. And do try telling the displaced people of Diego Garcia that Bush and his poodle, Blair, are promoting their freedom!! There is much for America to be proud of itself, even though it is unfairly consuming the world's resources like there is no tomorrow. I happen to share the views of those Americans (almost 50%) who do not share your rose-tinted view of America but have hopes that it will change for the better. Regards, Cornel
Re: [Goanet]RE: Questions about Hindu caste?
## # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # Want to check the archives? http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/# # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## Mario, Yes one can be a Hindu and not believe in God. I believed this to be so, but nevertheless, consulted three academics on the telephone who felt they were Hindu by identity and culture even though dismissive of caste and God. I had also read about this issue previously in books on Hinduism, where invariably, Hinduism was described as a way of life more so than a religion, notwithstanding a plethora of Gods rather than just one. I also claim that a non believer in God is perfectly able to write about religious issues, often, more insightfully, as they are no longer encumbered by a faith in God. Indeed, some excellent books on religion have been written by non believers in God or lapsed believers for that matter, including former priests and nuns and there are hell of a lot of such non believers in the world today. Similarly, I think it would be possible to be brought up a Catholic and be one culturally without continuing to accept that there is a God. I am tentative about this specific point but I am sure other better informed Goanetters could throw more light on this issue. Minimally, Mario, you were wrong on at least one aspect of your reply to my genuine (non feigned) query. The bigger question now is whether you can accept that you were wrong? Cornel - Original Message - From: Mario Goveia mgoveia@ Can you call yourself a Hindu if you don't believe in God? Can you call yourself a Catholic if you don't believe in God? No, you can't.
[Goanet]Support the Iraq war or be labeled a leftist, liberal, terrorist!
## # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # Want to check the archives? http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/# # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## According to Mario's totally warped logic, 48% of the US electorate who did not vote for Bush supports Saddam, which leads him to the generalized conclusion that they sympathized with the terrorists! But then again, his friend Chris Vaz also made a generalized and very offensive link between Tariq's relgion, the muslims in Michigan and their apparent blanket support for terrorism. I suggest that these two in a box intolerant individuals be ignored. A quick search reveals that Mario has made it a habit to attack individuals on a variety of other non Goan forums on the net. This consistent mode of reverting to irrelevant attacks, suggests to me that there may be a deeper psychological issue involved than just the war, terrorism, Saddam or even the caste system. Peter, Vivian etc have made their case supporting Bush and the war, without engaging in personal attacks against those who did not agree with them. While we continue to disagree on many of the fundamentals, it was still possible to engage in rational debates with them. Marlon --- Mario Goveia [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: By the way, since you are such a staunch defender of Saddam Hussein, you must have thought he and his sadistic sons were great guys, and you must really be opposed to freedom and democracy for the Iraqi people. --- Tariq Siddiqui [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Therein lies the problem with people like you. You cannot comprehend the fact that there exist ordinary people around the world whose opposition to a certain policy does not make them supportive of the opposite of that policy. Just because I did not support the war in Iraq, does not make me, or the millions like me, a supporter of Saddam Hussein. You prefer to see things that way only because you cannot tolerate dissent or comprehend objectivity. -Tariq
Re: [Goanet]RE: Questions about Hindu caste?
## # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # Want to check the archives? http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/# # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## Writing or talking does not help eliminate CASTE , action does. Do WE have any suggestions as to how this CASTE problem can be addressed ? If so please share them with us on this Goan Forum. LETS begin TODAY. rene - Original Message - From: Mario Goveia [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2004 3:19 AM Subject: Re: [Goanet]RE: Questions about Hindu caste? Mervyn, Maybe you are used to talking to yourself. The rest of us need to know what the heck you are talking about. Mervyn Lobo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mario Goveia wrote: Cip was saying that someone who is no longer a Hindu is probably not the best person to opine on this regiously based issue. As the Hispanics, say, Comprende? Mario, You either live in a fantasy world or have problems comprehending simple sentences. Mervyn2.0
[Goanet]A letter of introduction
## # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # Want to check the archives? http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/# # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## To my fellow goans One of my neighbors has introduced me to Goanet. As a resident of the village of Ribandar, I guess I have a lot to learn from the debates that are taking place in this forum. May be I can contribute something also, from my long life as a political reporter? Infact, I have had the pleasure of being a son in law of this country since 1994. That was the year I married a young Pereira girl. We spent our honeymoon in Goa. Some of the Goanetters already knows who I am. First of all Phillip Thomas. A few days back Thomas requested me to join this forum and share some knowledge that I have on Dabolim Airport. Being a political reporter in the Press Club in the Norwegian Parliament, I also have a love for world politics. In April 1991, I first landed in India as a member of a group of students from the Journalist Academy. Since than I have been following Indian politics with great interest. In fact on the 1991 journey to India, we were following the campaign of late PM Rajiv Gandhi from our television sets in New Delhi. Just arrived back in Norway, we got the shocking news of the terrorist attack who killed one of the greatest Indian leaders. In 1993 I was a Group Study Excange Student with Rotary International. At that great journey to India I was given the opportunity of giving speeches on my country by birth. I got a lot of Indian friends. That journey changed my faith. For many years my wife and me spent the summers in Norway, and the winter season in India. In 2001 our eldest daughter had to start going to school. I was just finishing my post as the advisor to the Norwegian Minister of Oil and Gas, and had to settle permanently. Now we had to choose between India and Norway. We choose Goa. How could a political reporter survive 8000 km away from his primary political arena? Because of technology and outsourcing. When the Norwegian Parliament is out of session, I can keep in touch with the Norwegian diplomats and politicians working on the Internet. During the sessions I travel to Oslo. I guess, it will take more than 14 years in India, to become an Indian. But I am proud to announce that I today call my self a Goan. When I visit my family in Norway, I always tell them: I know were my roots are, but I am going home to Goa. Sincerely Yours Mr. Ivar Fjeld Ribandar. __ Do you Yahoo!? Meet the all-new My Yahoo! - Try it today! http://my.yahoo.com
[Goanet]Menezeses... and more
## # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # Want to check the archives? http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/# # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## Gabe Menezes of Navelim/UK phoned this afternoon, and ... surprise, surprise... I failed to to recognise who was calling! He was (obviously) surprised ;-) Maybe I'm just growing old, or it's that early touch of Alzheimer's. Or perhaps it makes more sense to introduce ourselves by our email addresses ;-) Sorry about that faux pas Gabe! It was wholly unintentional. Looking forward to meet Gabe sometime soon. Anyone else coming to Goa in time for a Dec 21 Goanetter's meet-up and contributory lunch at someplace central? For those who asked, the VM who wrote that article on returning to Goa *is* indeed the very same _VM_ we know on Goanet. He was very active in the early days of Goanet, and got activated again more recently. In some ways, it's gratifying to see Goanet playing a role, though in a small way, in reversing the once much-debated brain-drain. In VM's (* ***'s) case, he actually took the step of attempting a re-location to Goa. Here's wishing him well. The first few months can be trying; but once you find your way around the maze, and adjust to the pace of work, it can be fun. Other old-time Goanetters like Jaime D'Mello -- seem to have lost touch temporarily -- have also said this network helped keep them abrest with what's happening here, and thus make them feel less of 'strangers' when they get back. Looking forward to more such useful links in the future. It sure could benefit all concerned. FN Frederick Noronha (FN)Nr Convent Saligao 403511 GoaIndia Freelance Journalist P: 832-2409490 M: 9822122436 http://www.livejournal.com/users/goalinks http://fn.swiki.net http://www.ryze.com/go/fredericknoronha http://fn-floss.notlong.com Difficulties to send email across? Write to fredericknoronha at vsnl.net Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments See http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html
Re: [Goanet]Re: The world dodged a bullet on Nov. 2
## # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # Want to check the archives? http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/# # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## --- Mario Goveia [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: See my comments below under Responses. By the way, since you are such a staunch defender of Saddam Hussein, you must have thought he and his sadistic sons were great guys, and you must really be opposed to freedom and democracy for the Iraqi people. Therein lies the problem with people like you. You cannot comprehend the fact that there exist ordinary people around the world whose opposition to a certain policy does not make them supportive of the opposite of that policy. Just because I did not support the war in Iraq, does not make me, or the millions like me, a supporter of Saddam Hussein. You prefer to see things that way only because you cannot tolerate dissent or comprehend objectivity. -Tariq __ Do you Yahoo!? Meet the all-new My Yahoo! - Try it today! http://my.yahoo.com
Re: [Goanet]VoicesofIraq.com
## # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # Want to check the archives? http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/# # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## --- Mario Goveia [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: They claimed that they have been amazed at the coverage of the events in Iraq in the world and especially the American media. They claim that the media spends 100% of coverage on less than 10% of the conflict that remains in the country of 25 million people and zero percent on the reconstruction that is going on right now. That same media also focused on the violence during the Saddam Hussein regime. -Tariq __ Do you Yahoo!? Meet the all-new My Yahoo! - Try it today! http://my.yahoo.com
[Goanet]Governance
## # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # Want to check the archives? http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/# # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## Re: George Pinto's of Nov 22 If only governance was a simple matter of reducing things to lists of 10, 20 and 37 items! Perhaps one should re-visit the lists of these good folks you mentioned and see how many items have stood the test of time. Anyway, I myself dont have any readymade list. I am only appalled at the way our top leadership has gone about a single (well perhaps dual) very salient event in the State, perhaps in good faith. For all our sakes I wouldnt mind being proved a liar rather than a prophet come 2005!
Re: [Goanet]Reply to Tony Corriea Afonso
## # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # Want to check the archives? http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/# # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## --- Mario Goveia [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Response: What does this mean if a) most of the Arab countries do not recognize Israel which is why Arafat's funeral service was held in Egypt, Did Israel permit Arafat's funeral in East Jerusalem? b) the Palestine charter has not been revised, The Palestinian charter was revised. c) the official PLA maps of the region show no Israel, and I didn't see any Israeli map that shows Palestine. d) the militant Palestinian organizations like Hamas, Hezbollah, Islamic Jihad and Arafat's own Al Aqsa Brigades almost killed Mohammad Abbas last week simply because he wants to negotiate with Israel? There are also similar Jewish extremist organizations that do not want a treaty with the Palestinians. They would rather have these people deported. And your point is? Tariq: The Palestinian Charter was revised in 1993 to eliminate this. In exchange, the Israelis acknowledged the existence of the PLO. Response: The Palestinian charter has never been revised. Also, if you are right, why do the official PLA maps exclude Israel and why did Arafat walk away from the agreement in 2000. Why do the Israeli maps exclude Palestine? The second question was answered in a mail to Marlon Menezes http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/2004-November/020096.html -Tariq __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: [Goanet]Re: The world dodged a bullet on Nov. 2
## # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # Want to check the archives? http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/# # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## --- Mario Goveia [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Santosh, I have no intentions of smearing you, just debating the issues, but if the shoe fits I'm afraid I must ask you to wear it. It is clear from the above post, and the abuses, character assassination, prejudices and lies contained in it that Mario Goveia is incapable of defending against my charge that the Iraq war was based on a lie. He fails to defend the casus belli for this illegal war, namely the existence of WMDs and the purported imminent threat that they posed to the U.S. Like the politicians that he supports, Mr. Goveia does not have the honesty and the decency to unconditionally admit that it is now well established that there were no WMDs in Iraq just before the war, and there are none there at present. He has been reduce to demonizing me, calling me names, making baseless prejudiced statements against me, and lying and distorting the facts. And despite all this he fancies himself to be a superior logician and custodian of the choicest facts. In this post I will avoid, as far as possible, responding to Mr. Goveias abusive personal attacks against me. Suffice it to say that this aspect of his post illustrates how well he has been indoctrinated in the tactics and practices of the right wing hate mob in the U.S. His post is a poignant example almost a caricature - of the intellectual dishonesty and bankruptcy that afflicts partisan hacks on either side of the political divide in this country. I will mostly address below only the factual contradictions, distortions and post-hoc rationalizations that he has propagated in his post. mount a vicious and relentless attack on the liberation of a country that has been brutalized by dictator, has never known freedom and democracy, hasthen yell Bloody murder! when someone wonders why. The above is a load of gratuitous hogwash designed to disguise the fact that the Iraq war was based on a lie. Not knowing you makes me more objective, don't you think? I wonder which part of Mr. Goveias post reveals himself to be objective. The part where he calls me a huge supporter of Saddam Hussein? Or the one where he calls me a diehard anti-American and anti-Semite? Here is a classic example of why I think you are a huge supporter of Saddam Hussein. If you don't know that Iraq used WMDs against Iran, the Kurds at Halabja (5,000 innocent civilians dead in one day) and the Marsh Shia in the Tigris-Euphrates delta then you need to do some research and PLEASE stop embarrassing yourself. Here Mr. Goveia fantasizes that my knowledge is more limited than his. His ignorance about what I know and what I dont know does not prevent him from drawing a prejudiced conclusion, complete with a stale and a rather childish slur. Yes there is. If Saddam had really destroyed his WMDs as he had agreed to do, he would have been able to show the UN inspectors that he had done so, and the UN resolutions would have been complied with and the crippling UN sanctions for not complying would have been removed and everyone in the Baath party could have lived happily ever after, but not the Kurds and the Shia that make up about 75% of Iraq. More hyper-defensive claptrap designed to disguise the fact that the Iraq war was based on a lie. A confused statement that goes beyond the rationale of international consensus, and appears to suggest that 100,000 more Iraqis would have had to be killed, no matter what, in the interest of democracy and freedom. No, I don't. Yes the UN inspectors destroyed some that they found...Don't you think the UN knew what its own inspectors had destroyed and what had not been accounted for? The final report on WMDs, namely the Duelfer report, commissioned by the U.S. government stated that: 1. When the United States invaded Iraq to disarm Saddam Hussein's regime, there were no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq or any facilities to build them. 2. Saddam ordered his arsenal of chemical and biological weapons destroyed in 1991 and 1992 and halted nuclear weapons development. 3. Saddam Hussein ended the nuclear program in 1991 following the Gulf War. 4. Iraq unilaterally destroyed its undeclared chemical weapons stockpile in 1991 and the survey team found no credible indications that Baghdad resumed production. 5. The former (Iraqi) regime had no formal written strategy or plan for the revival of WMD after sanctions. The above is taken from an article in USA Today posted just after the Duelfer Report was released in October 2004. The US did not lie about the AL tubes and the Niger
[Goanet]Indian 'child genius' beats the odds
## # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # Want to check the archives? http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/# # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## Indian 'child genius' beats the odds http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4032443.stm BBC NEWS, NOVEMBER 22, 2004 By Amarnath Tewary in Patna A 12-year-old boy from India's poorest and most lawless state, Bihar, is celebrating being named India smartest kid after winning a nationally televised quiz. Subham Prakhar won the title of India's Child Genius after several rounds of stiff competition between some 16,000 schoolchildren. Both of his parents are currently unemployed and Subham had to depend on generous relatives and the internet to gain access to the books he needed to prepare for the competition. Besides a glass trophy, an Encyclopaedia Britannica CD-rom and a pair of gold and silver pens, Shubham won a cash prize of one million rupees ($22,200). Murders and kidnaps Shubham Prakhar lives in the northern district of Muzaffarpur in Bihar - a state where police estimate that a murder takes place every four hours, a woman is raped every six hours, and kidnappings are a daily occurrence. Muzaffarpur is considered to be the crime capital of the state. He is an eighth-grade student in an area where kidnappings of schoolchildren for ransom is routine. We wish to send our only child to some other schools in Delhi as the situation here is frightening and not conducive, say his parents, Kumar Nawin and Archana Kumari. But we can't do it as money has always been a problem. The couple started a computer institute but were forced to wind it up in 1998 as it failed to bring profit. Rent provided by tenants has allowed them to keep living in the ancestral home in Muzaffarpur while they devote their time to their only son. They got him his first computer when he was in the first grade and since then he has been operating it like a true professional, says his mother, who trained as a computer engineer in Ukraine. Beating the odds Shubham had won every competition he entered before applying to take part in India's most prestigious and popular brain game show. He struggled hard to download the application form in a town in which the internet connection trips every few minutes and there are frequent power cuts. I've never stood second in life and that's how I wanted to be, he says. But he faced an uphill task in his latest challenge. Contestants were required to be in the age group of 10-13, with an overall average of at least 80% in school tests and examinations over the past two academic years. The top percentile of applicants from four regional zones were invited for a written entry test. Among 16,000 students Shubham topped the written test by a substantial margin, says competition host Siddhartha Basu. Telephone interviews and more tests helped organisers whittle the 320 contestants down to 60. Just 18 contestants took part in the final, which was televised nationally on the Star World television channel last week. It was a 10-month-long process running in 27 episodes to choose India's first child genius, says Mr Basu. Family support Shubham's family say living in a small town like Muzaffarpur has its limitations. But we managed through somehow with all our family effort, says his grandmother, Jayanti Devi, an economics professor. Shubham prepared for up to 12 hours a day during his holidays, and five or six hours while at school. I read 70 books, including classics, between April and August - but not a single question was asked on them in the final, he says. Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets and the Charles Dickens classics, A Tale of two cities and David Copperfield, were among his favourite reads. I like stories written in [the classical style], but these days good classics are difficult to find. Shubham's teachers say he is an extraordinary talent who is the pride of their school. Shubham is just an amazing blend of genius and talent. If everything goes right in future he will be a real treasure for India, says Manish Kumar, who has been teaching him for the past three years. A fan of Bollywood stars Shahrukh Khan and Preity Zinta, Shubham also loves to play and watch cricket along with other boys his age. He dreams of becoming a professor of computer or mechanical engineering to serve his state and country. I'm just proud of my home state - which of course has recently earned a bad name for some wrong reasons - but I'd love to do something for it, promises Shubham. _ NRIs! Easy to send, easy to receive! http://creative.mediaturf.net/creatives/citibankrca/rca_msntagofline.htm Ask us how!
[Goanet]RE: RE: Mother and child back in the Ribandar church
## # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # Want to check the archives? http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/# # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## (Joaquim Cardozo: To err is human. If one thinks he is perfect, then he is on the wrong planet. I think its time to pray for such people rather than get to them via internet. Leave the dogs alone. Good wishes to you Maria. J) Aren't you the same Joaquim who sent me a lengthy e-mail denigrating Aires Rodrigues and pleading hard not to believe anything that the lawyer might say about someone in future a month BEFORE the accusations against the priest surfaced? Another instance of seeking anticipatory bail? -- R.K.N. _ The Citi Rupee Checking Acct. Send money home free! http://creative.mediaturf.net/creatives/citibankrca/rca_msntextlinks.htm Get fabulous benefits too!
[Goanet]Goa set to rock and roll for IFFI
## # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # Want to check the archives? http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/# # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## Goa set to rock and roll for IFFI SANJAY BANERJEE http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/931367.cms PANAJI: Goa is all set to rock and roll unleashing a tidal wave of entertainment that promises to set the capital ablaze with a never before musical and show-biz extravaganza for the forthcoming 35th international film festival from November 29 to December 9. The short stretch between the Kala Academy (venue for opening and closing ceremony) and the heritage Old Goa medical college on the riverside boulevard will provide combo musical entertainment from classical, jazz, Goan folk songs and violin performances. The frothy Konkani music and plays will fuse with the jazz concerts in a way that this quaint former Portuguese colony has never been showcased to the world, said chairman of coordination committee of IFFI, Goa and MP, Shripad Naik. The promenade on the Mandovi river and the main road of the capital will be jazzed up with palmists, balloon sculpture, tattoo artist, unicyclist, rice carvers, face painters, African dancers, mehendi artists and ventriloquist shows from festival stages and much more. The state government has declared a half-day work for its employees while on the remaining days of the festival, employees can pack off early at 4.00 pm to partake in the celebrations. The main road along the Mandovi river will be a pedestrian street as traffic would be blocked for the delegates and the tourists to amble down the pathway that would be a riot of colours with the old administrative building and the giant rain trees decorated with fairy lights. The opening day will be a gala presentation of Indian music by A R Rahman who will be present a live show of his latest composition in Kisna (a film by Subhas Ghai) with his orchestra consisting of 60 musicians at the sports authority of Goa ground. The ten-day gala of events would kick off at the opening day at 2.30 pm with a cultural parade from Ribandar circle to Bal Bhavan featuring giant floats of Goan culture, music, dancers, costumed performers and folk groups. Local bands-- `Tidal Wave and `Forefrunt'--- promise to sizzle the crowd showcasing the flavour of Goa. Along the shores of the river, special laser shows and fireworks would lighten the city heralding the festival and the grand festivities. On December 4, the festival would also feature a special vintage car parade. For the children, the Goa entertainment society has created an amusement park with mini train, Columbus boat rides, moon walkers, clowns and jugglers adding to wholesome fun and frolic that surely promises to put the famed Goa carnival behind. Forwarded By Eddie Verdes
[Goanet]RE:RE: Lessons from Tamil Nadu
## # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # Want to check the archives? http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/# # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## (Maria Rodrigues: On the 21st of July 2004, long time before I even knew who Mr. Aires Rodrigues was, and long time before Mr. Rodrigues started his attacks on the Convent and Church in Ribandar, I wrote to you) So you knew it was coming and was setting the ground for a feeble defence, eh? Like taking an anticipatory bail? But, if I remember correctly, at that time your e-mail id was something other than '[EMAIL PROTECTED]. Why do you have to try so hard to prove that you're indeed what you claim to be? Btw, you introduced yourself as a resident of Mumbai. How come you're so uptodate on the happenings in faraway Ribandar? And finally, what was your motive behind publicising the identity of the minor victim? Please don't try to duck my queries with a charade of hollow sermons. -- R.K.N. _ The Citi Rupee Checking Acct. Send money home free! http://creative.mediaturf.net/creatives/citibankrca/rca_msntextlinks.htm Get fabulous benefits too!
[Goanet]IA engine fails mid-air with 250 people
## # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # Want to check the archives? http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/# # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## IA engine fails mid-air with 250 people By: Kashif Khusro http://www.mid-day.com/news/city/2004/november/97659.htm November 23, 2004 Nearly 250 passengers of an Indian Airlines flight from Goa to Mumbai had a brush with death on Saturday when one of the engines of the aircraft failed soon after take-off from Goa airport. The flight IC 598, an Airbus 300, left Goas Dabolim airport for Mumbai at around 10.45 am. While the aircraft was in mid-air, one of its engines failed. The pilot immediately turned the aircraft back to Goa airport at 11 am, managing to avert a disaster. On the face of it, it appears to be an engineering snag, but the actual reason for the engine failure is yet to be ascertained. Also, the aircraft was old, which may have aggravated the actual cause, said a Goa airport official. This is the second such incident within a fortnight involving an IA Airbus 300 flight from Goa to Mumbai. On November 6, an Airbus 300 hit a tractor and then took off for Mumbai, allegedly without mandatory inspections. In the November 6 episode, the aircraft maintenance engineer (AME) was at fault as he had asked a trainee technician to clear the aircraft for take-off, while the tractor was still parked underneath the aircraft. The pilot, sitting in the cockpit, was not aware whether the person giving the clearance was an AME or a technician, hence the aircraft hit the tractor, explained a senior IA official at Dabolim. Confirming Saturdays incident, an IA spokesperson in Mumbai said the flight returned to Goa airport because of a technical snag. The stranded passengers were flown to Mumbai the same evening in an Airbus 320 and a Boeing 737, he added. Forwarded By Eddie Verdes
Re: [Goanet] Questions about Hindu caste?
## # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # Want to check the archives? http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/# # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## --- Cip Fernandes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It appears that Dr. Santosh Helekar is a Hindu not by conviction but by birth, inheriting so-called Saraswat Brahmin caste, which is very close to his heart. Now, either Cipriano does not know what he is talking about or he is deliberately trying to insult me by calling me a Saraswat Brahmin, and by making an outrageous charge that my so-called Saraswat Brahmin caste is very close to my heart. The truth is Cipriano knows nothing about me and my attitude towards my caste. He has also not bothered to find out before making baseless accusations. However, he believes in his inherited so-called Saraswat Brahmin caste and he is holding tight to it. Not content with using a casteist slur against me, he continues to lie about me. Does he deliberately misunderstand me when I state that I do not hold the convictions of the religion of my ancestors? I challenge him to show us how he knows that I believe in my caste. Now, as he is the most intelligent liberal Hindu (by birth only) Goanetter why is he reluctant to denounce publicly his so-called inherited Saraswat Brahmin caste on Goanet? What a joke! Does Cipriano just want me to say that I denounce my so-called inherited Saraswat Brahmin caste on Goanet? Well, Folks on Goanet, here I go. I denounce my so-called inherited saraswat brahmin caste on Goanet. Or is he confusing denounce with renounce? If he is then would he believe me if I told him that I have already renounced my caste and the practices of casteism in my own life many years ago? That is exactly what I have done. That is why calling me a saraswat brahmin or any such name is an insult to me. I know, this post and any number of others like it would make no difference to Cipriano as regards his attitude towards me. In all likelihood he would continue to believe what he wants to believe. After all, ironically, those who wrongly accuse others of discrimination and prejudice by definition suffer from prejudice themselves. Cheers, Santosh
Re: [Goanet]Re: The world dodged a bullet on Nov. 2
## # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # Want to check the archives? http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/# # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## --- Mario Goveia [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Santosh, Since you seem so upset that Saddam has been removed by the evil George Bush, you must think he was a great guy and you must therefore also be opposed to freedom and democracy for the Iraqi people. You seem to be one of those people who is too intelligent by half. See if you can follow this simple sequential logic: 1. Before 1991 there was evidence of WMDs in Iraq. Just ask the Iranis, Kurds and Shia that these were used on. 2. In 1991 there was evidence of WMDs, because the UN has a signed agreement by Saddam acknowledging his WMDs and promising to destroy these and provide the UN with an accounting. 3. From 1991 to 2003 the UN Security Council passed 17 resolutions asking for the accounting that Saddam never provided, even though the consequence of the first 16 were crippling sanctions and of the 17th was the loss of his dictatorship and his sadistic sons. 4. Physics tells us that matter does not disappear. It has to be accounted for. 5. The coalition has not found the WMDs as yet. 6. Ipso facto, the WMDs cannot have disappeared, they have not been accounted for, they have not been found as yet, so they must be either still hidden somewhere in Iraq, or in Syria as suspected. I am suprised you did not say that they could have also been taken by UFOs . -Tariq __ Do you Yahoo!? Meet the all-new My Yahoo! - Try it today! http://my.yahoo.com
[Goanet]Dabolim Airport
## # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # Want to check the archives? http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/# # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## Re: Gabriel de Figueiredo's of Nov 22 The challenge is to light a fire under the PEOPLE of Goa about this issue in the first instance. Only then will the leaders get into the act. Right now the prospects look pretty dim to me, at least on Goanet. Btw, is Churchill following up on his letter to the Defence Committee? Hope so.
