[Goanet] Re: Public execution -Deterrent effect of the Death Penalty

[Kevin Saldanha, DVM]

Dear Carmo,

The bible also condoned slavery and abhorred homosexuality.  Is this really
the source of your 'inspiration' and devotion???

No wonder we have 'GoaNuts' calling for upside-down crucifixions  >:-(

Kevin Saldanha
Mississauga, ON.

---

Dear Jose,

If you are as devout a Catholic as I am, you should accept the Bible
teachings and there are atleast two references to the death penalty:


<...crap deleted...>

[Goanet] Re: The Lenten Season"

[Kevin Saldanha, DVM]

Another view of Lent

"As the church moved away from the fervor of apostolic times, people's
piety began to wane, and bishops cast about for some celebration that would
deepen the devotional approach to Easter, climax of the spiritual
year...Some observed a total fast for exactly forty days (minus the Lord's
Day, Sunday), a feast called Quadragesima, which would evolve into Lent".
(Panati, p. 206).

"The forty days' abstinence of Lent was directly borrowed from the
worshippers of the Babylonian goddess. Such a Lent of forty days, 'in the
spring of the year', is still observed by the Yezidis or Pagan
Devil-worshippers of Koordistan who have inherited it from their early
masters, the Babylonians. Such a Lent of forty days was held in spring by
the Pagan Mexicans, for thus we read in Humboldt (Mexican Researches) where
he gives account of Mexican observances: " Three days after the vernal
equinox...began a solemn fast of forty days in honour of the sun". Such a
Lent of forty days was observed in Egypt...expressly in commemoration of
Adonis or Osiris, the great mediatorial god. At the same time, the rape of
Proserpine seems to have been commemorated, and in a similar manner...
"forty nights" the "wailing for Proserpine" continued...Among the Pagans
this Lent seems to have been an indispensable preliminary to the great
annual festival in commemoration of the death and resurrection of Tammuz
which was celebrated by alternate weeping and rejoicing...being observed in
Palestine and Assyria in June, therefore called the "month of Tammuz"".
(Hislop, pp. 104, 105). "But at last, when the worship of Astarte was
rising into the ascendant, steps were taken to get the whole Chaldean Lent
of six weeks, or forty days, made imperative on all within the Roman Empire
of the West. The way was prepared for this by a Council held at Aurelia in
the time of Hormisdas, Bishop of Rome, about the year 519, which decreed
that Lent should be solemnly kept before Easter." (Hislop, pp. 106, 107). 

http://www.innvista.com/culture/religion/deities/easter.htm

Kevin Saldanha
Mississauga, ON.
ps. How many devotees have given up chicken for Lent ;-?  /ks

--
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 11:58:13 +0300
From: "domnic fernandes"
Subject: [Goanet] The Lenten Season -Lyrics of Konkani song "HEA
TEMPAR DEV" by Michael of Wilmix 

The Lenten Season

This year, Lent started on March 1.  The tone of worship and church life 
changes starting with the worship services of that day, all the way to Palm 
Sunday, and then again to Easter.  The feeling is subdued, with a pensive 
hush, in awe of God, in sharp awareness of how each of us, and all of us 
together, are not as God calls us to be, and because of that, will 
eventually die.  We are not masters of our lives but are instead subject to 
the tides of life and are thus much less than God
--

[Goanet] Re: The married priest

[Kevin Saldanha, DVM]

Valmiki & Mario,

Some sites to consider in your quest for knowledge:
http://www.hsus.org/pets/pet_care/why_you_should_spay_or_neuter_your_pet.html
http://www.thepigsite.com/FeaturedArticle/Default.asp?Display=1204

But to return to the topic of discussion prior to digression...
http://marriedpriests.org/
http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_rcc.htm
http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/rainbow/html/facts_molestation.html
http://www.medicineuptotheminute.com/pedophilia.htm

BTW, Mario.. what are the motives for the Church enforcing celibacy?

Kevin Saldanha


Original Message:
-
From: Mario Goveia [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Valmiki,
Since you digressed without meaning to, my opinion is
that these pets are considered playthings for their
owners.

--- Valmiki Faleiro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Why do some people still get their pet canines and pigs
> castrated/sterilized?
> 
> > --- cornel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >>
> >> My bigger question is to ask why the Catholic Church
> >> is seemingly secretive about the matter of married 
> >> priests?

[Goanet]Economic migration, personal experience...

[Kevin Saldanha]

In the ongoing debate about economic migration and the choice of one's 
homeland... I remember the time when I was getting married (to a 
childhood sweetheart with whom a mature relationship was rekindled while 
she was visiting from Canada ... without resorting to cybermatrimonials 
;-) and I was trying to convince my new bride to stay with me in Goa as 
I had a promising career in the poultry industry there, having just 
completed a Master's degree in Poultry Nutrition from Bangalore.  She 
was adamant that it was foolhardy to languish in the local rat-race 
while struggling to eke out a living in research or worse still, running 
a poultry farm.  She won the argument with simple economics... if we 
stayed in Goa, she would probably only be able to visit her family in 
Canada once a decade or less whereas if I made a decent  living in 
Canada, we would be able to travel to India every year or two (depending 
on family size) to visit my folks there.  So I headed for the gold-paved 
streets of Mississauganagar, Canukistan.  I guess this would make me an 
economic migrant ;-)


What she didn't count on was me taking 4 years to re-qualify in Canada. 
In a recent article posted to GoaNet about Canadian (and other western 
country) restrictions on foreign qualifications is true but not 
unforseen. Speaking from experience (in the veterinary field) we are 
given a very broad
education in India (BVSc&AH - Bachelor of Veterinary Science and Animal 
Husbandry) whereas in Canada the DVM degree is for a Doctor of 
Veterinary Medicine and animal husbandry is a separate discipline with 
it's own degree program and college! I went back into the undergraduate 
course here after doing a Masters in India. It takes at least 5 years to 
get back on your feet after immigrating to Canada and possibly longer 
for professionals with quota restrictions.   All the sob stories of 
foreign physicians delivering pizza instead of babies are spilt milk as 
they full well knew the odds they were facing (or should have, at least) 
before pulling up stakes for the distant pot of gold.


Kevin Saldanha
(I've forgotten all Cecil's codes)
Saligavcho Kollo

ps.  Another post of mine to GoaNet appeared to have fallen through the 
cracks, probably because I posted it from a new gmail account that was 
not be registered with GN.  I was going to attach it here but got 
Cecil's cc. directly admonishing me on the correct use of his freeware 
coding thereby confirming that it reached it's intended audience.  /ks


pps.  I'm glad that someone other than Fr. Ivo is reading up on 
evolution and reporting on the position of the Catholic Church via 
mainstream media.  Church, which has long been regarded as an ally of the theory of 
evolution, is now
suggesting that belief in evolution as accepted by science today may be 
incompatible with Catholic faith.>  All the rest of the fence sitters 
(or pseudo-pro-evolutionary-cafeteria-catholics) will now have to choose 
between the heretical but irrefutable scientific proof of evolution and 
the abstract, theological rhetoric of intelligent design because the two 
will NEVER be compatible.  /ks

[Goanet]Colour, Caste and Christianity

[Kevin Saldanha]

There is a scientific explanation to the way different skin colours
evolved which has been acknowledged around the world.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_skin_color
http://magma.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/0211/feature2/online_extra.html

However, this highly visible (ie. obvious from a distance) difference
between humans is complemented by similar facial features and physical
stature, created primarily by inbreeding within that community.  These
make up different ethnic groups with their own cultural and
sociological customs within which they prefer to breed.  Ancient
societies were stratified according to class, economic status and
occupation.  The early hindus took that to an extreme in the evolution
of castes to maintain a working hierarchy in society that appeared to
have benefitted the community to the detriment of the lowest castes. 
The current issue of caste in cybermatrimonials is an effort to retain
that prerogative while living outside the confines of the community. 
I feel that mentioning caste in the adverts is now used more to assure
a compatibility with extended family structure, lifestyle and outlook
than purity of bloodlines.

However, Christians are supposed to be above the issue of caste and
thereby should also be blind to colour!  Came across this interesting
site on the Christian perspective of the origin of skin colour
including the obvious question - what colour were Adam and Eve? 
You'll have to read the article to find out but I'll give you a
hint... they could have been from Anjuna!
http://www.christiananswers.net/q-aig/race-skincolor.html

There is an interesting article on Wikipedia (not unlike the one
posted recently) on caste in India -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caste .  There are still several
unfinished sections that knowledgeable GoaNetters can contribute to
online.

Kevin Saldanha, Mississauga via Bangalore, Bombay, Saligao, Nakuru, Kenya.
M/48/Hm/H(arijan)

[Goanet]Please respect opposing views

[Kevin Saldanha]

Dear Joe Vaz and other believers on this list,

Your right to believe in a God and follow the religion of your choice is 
as "hallowed" as my right NOT TO!  GoaNet is a secular forum and 
opposing viewpoints can be made without resorting to personal 
invective.  I was on Santosh's cc list but have not been spamming your 
mailbox, just in case I get accused of doing so.  My reply to GoaNet was 
delayed due to formatting errors but I was grateful to him for keeping 
me informed as I subscribe to the digest version of GoaNet which makes 
for cumbersome replies in a timely fashion.


Every religion cannot be 'the true way' as they righteously claim and so 
logically, none can claim that victory.  Religion bashing is a poor way 
of making a point as is claiming to be the 'only way to salvation' that 
we keep hearing from the Christian evangelicals.  However, one 
occasionally has to resort to 'blasphemy' to make a point as we have 
seen in Santosh Rushdie's case ;-)


Dr. Helekar has unflinchingly stated his agnosticism with reference to 
the existence of a higher power (whether that be Catholic or any other 
denomination) and you cannot seem to understand that there are other 
atheists (like myself) who would go a step further to state that in my 
opinion, the concept of an omnipotent creator God is essentially 
man-made.  Men (predominantly) have taken that concept and created 
religions to further their own causes but in the process have lost the 
fundamental reason of the goal of encouraging their adherants to strive 
to live their lives as ethically as possible.  Currently, if you follow 
all the traditions of the faith and donate generously to their priests, 
you are practically guaranteed a place in 'heaven'... wherever that may 
be.  Failing to do so will have adverse consequences for your soul, or 
so we are told.  No longer are compassion for non-human life and 
tolerance to other viewpoints held high by the faithful.   Secular 
organisations like the Secular Humanists have created a practical 
alternative to religion which eschews all external supernatural deities 
as part of our creation story and necessary for a good life.

http://www.secularhumanism.org/intro/what.html

Fr. Ivo may eloquently argue theology vs. science which is neither here 
nor there for his training has limited his thinking to a Christian 
perspective.  He mentioned recently that "There is nothing inherently 
incompatible between an evolutionary view of life and a commitment to 
the Christian Scriptures".  This is a blatantly false statement for 
anyone who actually UNDERSTANDS the facts of evolution, not merely knows 
a few of them.  Nothing he or you can say to me will change my belief 
that we are thinking animals, evolved along a line of primate mammals, 
who created Gods for our own psychological comfort.  Believers have the 
benefit of that psychological comfort in times of distress.  Atheists 
will accept life's hardships as part of one's existence and not a test 
from God, including death, as a finality of life and not a passing from 
this mortal existence to another everlasting one.  That is in direct 
conflict with the teachings of most religions, even those that do not 
subscribe to a God figure like Buddhism (which teaches reincarnation - 
abhorred by Christianity but supported by molecular chemistry!).


Much of what Santosh refutes about Christianity is common knowledge to 
those who care to investigate for themselves rather than believe that 
all the answers are contained in the 'Good Book'.  Most recently, 'The 
Pagan Christ' by Tom Harpur puts all the current thinking on the subject 
in one place with enough references to allow the inquisitive to satisfy 
their curiosity.  However it is not entertaining reading for true believers.

http://www.tomharpur.com/Reviews/PaganChrist.asp

Our knowledge on neurophysiology has exploded within the last decade and 
the effect of external (electromagnetic) and internal (temporal lobe 
epilepsy) stimuli on our religious experiences have been studied by many 
researchers, not the least being here at the Laurentian University in 
Sudbury, ON. by Dr. Michael Persinger.

http://www.laurentian.ca/neurosci/_people/Persinger.htm
This work is ongoing and some interesting spin-offs can be found at
http://www.innerworlds.50megs.com/winshakti/rotating/

Again, these notions may not be welcomed by the religiously inclined but 
are available online to any who care to know and learn.


Regards,

Kevin Saldanha,
Mississauga, Canada.

[Goanet]Ian D'Sa and Billy Talent

[Kevin Saldanha]

Goan musician, Ian D'Sa, and his band, Billy Talent, ( 
http://www.billytalent.com ) were a big winners at yesterdays Much Music 
video award ceremonies here in Toronto.  http://www.andpop.com/article/4290


You can check out an 2003 interview with Ian at 
http://www.staticnoise.net/aspotlight/billytalentfeature.htm


Billy Talent is set to perform at the Live 8 concert in Barrie, Ontario 
http://www.andpop.com/article/4285


Kevin Saldanha
Mississauga, Canada

[Goanet]Re: Unchrisitan

[Kevin Saldanha]

Dear Salus and all his Christian friends,

One quote that sticks in my head from Eckhart Tolle's book - The Power 
of Now - is  "You have found God the moment you realise that you no 
longer need to seek him" on page 147.  I have!


The God he refers to is an internal peace rather than an external 
supernatural deity.  I would appreciate you NOT intervening on my behalf 
with any of your supernatural deities unless it makes you feel better, 
in which case you would be praying for yourself.


Kevin Saldanha
Mississauga, Canada

Re: [Goanet]Santa Claus and white lies

[Kevin]

Cecil Pinto wrote:

> Melinda, I agree with all that you have said in your e-mail and I guess for
> a person with a strong religious conviction it is far easier to be an
> ethical parent than for a 'doubting Thomas' like me.

Try explaining to teenagers why their father went from encouraging them to 
accompany him to daily Mass and reflecting on the mysteries of the Rosary to
the inability to honestly make the 'sign of the cross' any longer.  It IS all 
about telling 'white lies'.  Children have an innocence and simple faith in
believing what we, their life support system, tells them is true.  We, in turn, 
believe what we are told by those we hold in highest esteem, as the
Truth.  However, on deep questioning of these 'truths' we find inconsistencies 
that are irreconcilable, it is easy to become a 'doubting Thomas' and more!

I have resolved not to tell any more 'white lies' that I am not completely 
convinced of the truth.

> I would like though to examine the concept of telling 'white lies' to
> children. I have occasionally had to take recourse to such white lies and
> feel guilty about not having a better solution.
>
> The best example is Santa Claus. At least it is as far removed as one can
> get from the taboo topics of 'religion' and 'sex' on this forum.

Unfortunately, you chose the one example that has everything to do with 
religion with a healthy dose of consumerism   ;-)

> On the one hand I feel I should tell my sons that there is no real Santa
> Claus. On the other hand I don't want to take away from them that sense of
> anticipation, mystery and wonder which surrounds the arrival of the
> Christmas presents. And the related myths. So how do I get past this by
> telling a harmless white lie; that a Santa Claus does indeed exist at the
> North Pole and that he does have a Toy Workshop and Elves and Reindeers and...

Did you see how many adults have tears in their eyes when watching the annual 
December re-releases of "Miracle on 34th Street"?  These would be the same
adults who will go to see the annual Lenten re-releases of the "Passion".

Successful parenting is finding a way of easing the transitions between literal 
to figurative truths without losing face.

> Some years from now when they find out the truth about Santa Claus will
> they resent the fact that I lied to them? Did I hold any resentment towards
> my parents when I found out the truth? None at all. Do we put too much
> pressure on ourselves as parents to be completely truthful when our
> children themselves wouldn't be less bothered about the ethics involved and
> just take it as a part of growing up?

Kids are getting smarter and smarter every generation and what worked for our 
generations may not work for theirs when they get their information from so
many other sources than their parents.  My solution is to be as truthful as 
possible leaving yourself enough wiggle room to mature the story-line as your
child grows up.  However, past the age of mid-late teens, you will have to 
accept that they are young adults and need to be treated as such, including
frank discussions on all taboo subjects before they have their immature minds 
filled by other sources.

Kevin Saldanha
Mississauga, Canada.

[Goanet]A HEROIC UNDERTAKING- A PLEA FOR A KIDNEY DONATION

[Kevin D'Costa]

_Profile_

I am a 28 year-old goan girl who has been active in the Toronto Goan 
community for a number of years and am in desperate need of a kidney. I 
go by the alias of Mary.


I was diagnosed in 2000 with IgA Nephritis, which in essence means that 
my immune system started attacking my kidneys. By 2002, both my kidneys 
were not working and I received the call on June 25^th , 2002, my 
birthday, that I would have to start dialysis permanently three times a 
week for four hours each treatment or until I received a kidney. I have 
tried all means of dialysis and methods of accessing my veins, however, 
nothing is working.



I am unable to work on a full time basis, settling only for consulting, 
except when I have problems with my health. In the last year, I have had 
to go into the hospital approximately twelve times for surgeries or 
monitoring when the dialysis is working poorly. Dialysis, unfortunately 
will not completely purify my body, in the way that a kidney does. 30% 
of the toxins remain in my body every treatment and therefore erode my 
health steadily. To complicate matters, the kidney problems have caused 
cataracts in my eyes, skin troubles, and fatigue. This has greatly 
disrupted my ability to work, and live a normal life.



Moreover, this is a great strain for my parents and family as they are 
the ones providing moral and emotional support and taking me to my 
various appointments.



Information for Donors

I am seeking a generous individual who will donate a kidney. My blood 
type is “A”. To be a donor you must be healthy and willing to go through 
a screening process with Trillium Gift of Life/St. Michael’s Hospital. 
If you are interested in this heroic undertaking, please email the 
G.O.A. at [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

[Goanet]Re: Greening of Goa University Campus

[Kevin]

Miguel,

We must have been having a telepathic moment here.  How can we redirect a lot 
of the 'hot air' on
this list towards this 'greening' initiative?  Are you aware of any other such 
plans and what is the
state of Goa's virgin forests currently?

Kevin Saldanha
Mississauga, Canada

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> Message: 4
> Date: Sat, 28 May 2005 23:43:40 +0530
> From: Miguel Braganza <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: Goanet , Goa world <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
>  ReneBar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Cc: Shirodkars <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, WGKF garcinia <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
>  "Dr.Jayaram Bhat" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: [Goanet]Promoting Goa University
> Reply-To: goanet@goanet.org
>
> Dear Goans/ Goa lovers,
>
> The letter reproduced below has been published in the oHERALDo newspaper on
> 27 May, 2005. Many persons who met me [or phoned in] said they agreed with
> the views that I have articulated therein. The Goa University needs our
> support.
>
> I am happy to inform you that the oHERALDo carried on the same day a news
> item that the Western Ghats Kokum Foundation [WGKF]has signed a MoU with the
> goa University to plant different tree species on the Goa University campus
> and the road leading to it from NIO Circle, Dona Paula. The State Bank of
> India, which had funded a mini orchard at Goa University in the early 1990s
> has loosened its purse-strings again. The funds are routed through the WGKF.
> The Multi Commodity Exchange of India [MCX] is also funding the project. The
> Chowgules[ Ravi Chowgule] have assured that they will make rock breaker JCB
> and other equipment available for excavating pits on the rocky campus. I am
> putting the experience gained in doing just this at Goa University[ in
> 1991-93] at the disposal of the University for free. You are invited to join
> the effort. Write to [EMAIL PROTECTED] if you would like to contribute to
> the building up of the Goa University's environment. Let it show case the
> best of Goa and not become a poor second to Aldeia de Goa, Paradiso de
> Goa or any other private housing project. Let it be different, not inferior.
> It is our University.
>
> Viva Goa.
> Miguel

[Goanet]Re: New Discussion

[Kevin]

Joaquim DeSouza wrote:

> 1. How can we assist (in any method) to improve communication network i.e.
> internet, phones .wifi, wimax in GOA.

Isn't this a governmental initiative with input from the private sector.  Can we
as GoaNetters influence this process?  If so, I would vote to bypass any
improvement in analog services in favour of higher bandwidth digital services.
Obviously, I don't know if this is already being undertaken in Goa.

> 2. How can we set up a system including desalination to guarantee drinking
> water in Goa ( forget the wells they are almost all polluted by groundwater
> contamination)

This is too energy intensive for Goa which has the benefit (for now) of the
seasonal recharge of the monsoons.  What we really need to push for is a
concerted effort to harvest that rainwater before it all gushes into the Arabian
sea, taking with it exposed topsoil and eroding valuable agricultural lands.
The digging of trenches on the Saligao hill is one example of this simple
technology.  Reactivating the ancient systems of bandhs and toyems (excuse my
spelling) will help hold the water long enough for it to percolate down to the
permanent water table.

The contamination aspect will have to be dealt with separately.  Most of the
contamination is from agricultural and garbage sources with very little coming
from industry as I understand it.  There is definitely a market for consumer
level reverse-osmosis/ultraviolet filters which provide continuous potable water
without central processing and distribution.

> 3. How can we ensure that people who have a motor vehicle
> have a valid driving license after doing the driving tests and did not bribe
> anyone?

Bribery is a way of life in Goa (and, for that matter the rest of India) and I
really don't see any resolution to this endemic problem.  The rest of the world
is not immune to it either, but policing is much more stringent and penalties
more severe.  It will take an enormous change in mindset to achieve this one
:-(

> 4. How can we improve the Health response time with ambulances or 24 hour
> TRAUMA centre in GOA.

The recent implementation of 4 quick response motorcycle first-aid units is a
step in that direction.  Improvement in the availability of appropriate cardiac
care in Goa is one objective of the New Jersey GOA association.  A trauma unit
would be nice for expats and foreigners and privatizing this service will allow
those with the funds to avail of it.  But I think a higher priority we need to
concentrate efforts on is getting basic health care to ALL Goans which appears
to be sorely lacking.

> 5. How can we arrest criminals who sell real estate with so called POA (
> Powers of Attorney) and have no legal capacity to convey title.

Hire some goondas to break their kneecaps???;-)

Some other initiative which I think are within the reach of our cybercommunity
is reforestation of denuded forests and planting of hardy fast growing
shrubs/trees on bare plateaus.  Is there any NGO similar to the Forest
Conservancy that oversees public lands and their maintenance?  Adoption of these
lands through a lease program will ensure their continued maintenance.  Thinning
forested areas can be repopulated with native species or wild fruit trees that
will attract native fauna.  These will have to be appropriately protected by
forest officers.

How about each regular contributor on this list coming up with at least one
constructive idea.  We can then thrash each one in a priority that will be
established by an admin member in Goa (Fred comes to mind) until we reach a
workable solution.

Kevin Saldanha

[Goanet]Re: Homosexuality normal / abnormal 2

[Kevin]

I've been following this thread in silence and I just had to jump in here.  A
few comments made by various learned people recently made me question the level
of common knowledge about homosexuality until Dr. Joaquim DeSouza took the time
and trouble to get us all on the same page.  Of course, there will be some who
will question his sources as they question everything else and refuse to accept
it.  That is their prerogative.

Everyone seems to be caught up on the SEX part of homosexuality which is a
natural tendency for moralists.  However, it is the 'homo' part which interests
me (taking the liberty to assign homo to the species ie. homo sapiens rather
than the more appropriate and intended 'same'ness).  As far as we know, there is
little doubt as to the genetic component for sexual orientation but a far less
known statistic is that a higher than normal percentage of male homosexuals have
heterosexual older brothers bringing into question the immunologic effects of a
second male pregnancy and the interactions of hormonal influences on the
developing fetus (in a sense, environmental).  I'm sure someone will come up
with relevant references but for now you will have to contend with this googled
link
http://www.yawningbread.org/arch_1997/yax-061.htm

As Dr. DeSouza stated, various sexual orientations are a natural part of
humanity since humans evolved.  However, it has been suppressed by various
agencies for various reasons.  But now that our knowledge base is expanding, we
need to be the instruments of change within the agencies we maintain our
affiliations with, whether it be the church or the government (which is greatly
inflenced by its' constituents' religious values).  If there is an inherent
desire for us, as humans, to publicly profess our love and committment to a
spouse as in the sacrament and universal ceremony of marriage, why should it be
denied to some on the basis of their orientation?

As a former Catholic, my limited knowledge of Christianity confirms that the
attitude of the Catholic church towards homosexuality and same-sex marriages is
based on an antiquated view of this segment of the population.  There appears to
be an aspect of self-preservation within this as well judging from the fact that
most vocations come from families with more than one male sibling, the first
born usually carrying on the family name.  I don't intend to disparage any of
the Catholic clergy but this observation is a personal one and needs to be taken
in context with my irreligious quest for the truth.

Kevin Saldanha
Mississauganagar,
Canuckistan.

[Goanet]I hope you enjoy these as much as I did!

[Kevin]

Will Rogers, who died in a plane crash with Wylie Post in 1935, was
  probably the greatest political sage this country has ever known.
Enjoy the
  following:


  1.  Never slap a man who's chewing tobacco.

  2.  Never kick a cow chip on a hot day.

  3.  There are 2 theories to arguing with a woman...neither
works.

  4.  Never miss a good chance to shut up.

  5.  Always drink upstream from the herd.

  6.  If you find yourself in a hole, stop digging.

  7.  The quickest way to double your money is to fold it and
put it
  back in your pocket.

  8.  There are three kinds of men: The ones that learn by
reading.
  The few who learn by observation.  The rest of them have to pee on the
electric
  fence and find out for themselves.

  9.  Good judgment comes from experience, and a lot of that
comes from
  bad judgment.

  10.  If you're riding' ahead of the herd, take a look back
every now
  and then to make sure it's still there.

  11.  Lettin' the cat outta the bag is a whole lot easier'n
puttin' it
  back.

  12.  After eating an entire bull, a mountain lion felt so good
he
  started roaring.  He kept it up until a hunter came along and shot
him.  The
  moral:

When you're full of bull, keep your mouth shut.



  ABOUT GROWING OLDER...

  First ~ Eventually you will reach a point when you stop lying
about
  your age and start bragging about it.

  Second ~ The older we get, the fewer things seem worth waiting
in
  line for.

  Third ~ Some people try to turn back their odometers.  Not me,
I want
  people to know "why" I look this way.  I've traveled a long way and
some of
  the roads weren't paved.

  Fourth ~ When you are dissatisfied and would like to go back
to
  youth, think of Algebra.

  Fifth ~ You know you are getting old when everything either
dries up
  or leaks.

  Sixth ~ I don't know how I got over the hill without getting
to the
  top.

  Seventh ~ One of the many things no one tells you about aging
is that
  it is such a nice change from being young.

  Eighth ~ One must wait until evening to see how splendid the
day has
  been.

  Ninth ~ Being young is beautiful, but being old is
comfortable.

  Tenth ~ Long ago when men cursed and beat the ground with
sticks, it
  was called witchcraft.  Today it's called golf.

  And finally ~ If you don't learn to laugh at trouble, you
won't have
  anything to laugh at when you are old.


Kevin Saldanha
Mississauga, Canada

ps. You know what happens when atheists pray (as all people are wont to
do when faced with imminent, unexpected death, if there's time)?  All
hell breaks loose!  /ks

[Goanet]Re: Dr. Helekar is pro-science, not anti-religion

[Kevin]

The BIGGEST SHOCK of my life, after I'm dead will be a non-entity!

I am willing to take my just rewards (desserts?) here on earth (creating my own 
heaven or hell) and gamble that when I die. I'll be DEAD, CAPUT, NADA, 
ZILCH, MELO.  My body, which made a lot of noise when alive, will not be of any 
more use to me and can be utilized in any way modern medicine and science 
wishes to its fullest extent (ie. organ donations,
transplants, medical student anatomy dissections, etc.)  My soul... which I 
believe to be the essence of my being will live on in the memories of survivors 
for a few years  not always favourably I'm sure but hopefully with some 
joy.  My genes will survive in my offspring, of which I have two.  The 
molecules of my being will be recycled into nature, hopefully to
be incorporated into another living entity in the future, of which I will have 
no knowledge.  NO ONE HAS EVER COME BACK but many believe that there is more, a 
belief that is fueled by stories that have been made up and embellished over 
the centuries.  Our knowledge of our mortality has necessitated the need to 
believe in an afterlife which through the ages has taken
up huge resources and entire life times to prepare for (eg. the pyramids with 
all the sacrificial paraphernalia including armies of servants!).

There is a resurgence of belief in an after life with TV shows (Medium) and 
programs (Revelations) putting ancient myths into believable visions.  Books 
have been dedicated to explaining the hierarchy of angels in heaven!  This is 
aimed at the public who are hungering for some meaning to our earthly 
existence.  The power of the audiovisual medium can create
believable footage (The Passion of the Christ) of mythical biblical stories 
(interesting analysis in 'The Pagan Christ' by Tom Harpur) which totally miss 
out on the actual message that the early Christian writers of the Bible were 
trying to tell us.  Some of those teachings, common to all the major religions, 
have been put into readable texts for individual
spiritual (human, not divine) development eg. 'Essential Spirituality' by Roger 
Walsh and 'The Power of Now' by Eckhart Tolle, to name just two.  These are 
more essential readings from modern man than the ambigious, outdated, paranoid 
messages in the 'Good Books'.

Your eloquent tribute to Dr. Helekar makes me proud to be a member of his 
tribe, even if he wants to disassociate from me after this post   ;-)

Kevin Saldanha
Mississauga, Canada.

ps. As for your reply with SUGGESTIONS FOR THE FUTURE OF INDIA... the booms in 
the automotive and tourism industries would be the heralding sound of imminent 
collapse of a basically agrarian society barrelling towards industrial 
annihilation.  It is amazing how differently we view the situation and the 
solutions.  We will not be here to hear the booms but maybe our
children and definitely our grandchildren will if we don't do something about 
it now.

Kevin

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> Date: Thu, 19 May 2005 09:07:50 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Mario Goveia <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

> Finally, I suggest everyone relax and not get too
> carried away by their beliefs.  All these mysteries
> will soon be cleared up the minute we die, when we
> religious types will discover whether we placed our
> faith unwisely and wasted plenty of time and money in
> return for some temporal peace of mind, or whether the
> atheists are in for the shock of their lives and
> discover to their dismay that TIME did not begin with
> the BIG BANG.

[Goanet]Re: No conflict between Science and Bible???

[Kevin Saldanha]

I just had to add my $0.02Cdn here for the record.  Currently there have 
been 2 bills introduced in the US that flout this very subject line.  
The Christian fundamentalist movement has been bolstered by the current 
political climate to attempt to confuse school children with a false 
impression that the 'Intelligent Design' Theory (newspeak for 
Creationism) is a valid alternative to the Fact of Evolution.  
http://www.humaniststudies.org/enews/index.html?id=192&lid=1681#n1

Although many forward thinking clergy (Fr. Ivo included) claim to know 
and acknowledge the basic facts of evolution, a thorough understanding 
of evolution is incompatible with the notion of a supernatural deity 
(which is why Darwins Origin of the Species was on the Vatican's banned 
list until it was 'declassified' in 1966!)  Many who are unable to come 
to terms with this reconcile their beliefs in some sort of suspended 
animation.  This is fine if it doesn't impinge on the ability to educate 
our children properly without having religious ideology subverting 
scientific facts.

Kevin Saldanha
Mississauga, Canada
ps. ... and as to the doubts about my sexuality... let's just say it's 
not all 'missionary'...  but my orientation is XY   :-)))

[Goanet]Re: INDIA : CASTE AND THE FUTURE

[Kevin]

Antonio's post brings up a good point - lack of effective 'top-down' management 
in Goa (and possibly India, too).  In societies where the citizens have seen 
through the empty promises and smoke-screens put up by politicians, grass-root 
'bottom-up'?) NGO's start taking matters into their own hands as is evident in 
my beloved village of Saligao.  These
organizations can effectively operate outside the sphere of political and 
religious influences for the betterment of all members.  The astute Indians are 
realizing this and working their way out from under the 'dharmic rules and 
regulations'.  ( http://www.secularhumanism.org/Intl/india/ )  It will take a 
while yet for mainstream Goans to realise the benefits
of this move.

The unfortunate part of the current optimism over India's impending affluence 
is the unsustainability of first world lifestyles for third world countries.  
In fact, we in the so called developed countries, have buried our collective 
heads in the sand when it comes to questioning the unsustainability of current 
first world lifestyles at the expense of poorer
nations.  When the average north american (me included) uses 32 times the 
resources that the average human inhabitant of this planet uses, something's 
got to give.  China, already ahead of India in population and standard of 
living, has next to no controls on environment degradation that are only now 
being instituted in the west.  Deforestation, soil erosion,
water management, etc are becoming more difficult to manage as the rate of 
family dwelling occupancy drops with the concurrent increase in overall 
consumption.

What does this have to do with Goa?  Compared to the rest of India (with the 
exception of Kerala and possibly Punjab) there are many more families with 
relatives living abroad who wish them to attain a similar standard of living.  
So as standards rise, the original 5% upper class is now ballooning, the 
effects of which can be seen in property values and fish
prices, to name a couple.  Is that growth sustainable from the mining and now 
the tourism industries?  There is such a lack of infrastructure on the 
Calangute belt that soon tourists too will be turned off.  And who exactly is 
profiting from the 'exclusive' resorts on secluded beaches?  How come so little 
of that revenue is being used to develop the much needed
infrastructure for future development?

That original 5% were the upper castes who depended on the lower 75% for 
supporting them in exchange for spiritual guidance and instruction that was 
supposed to make their lives better or at least keep them emotionally satisfied 
with their lot in life.  However now that many of them are seeing through the 
smoke and mirrors, they too will be hankering for a
higher standard at the expense of ignorant immigrants who are happy to step 
into their spots.  How effective are the social services in Goa for residents 
without having to worry about immigrants?  The problem is not unique to Goa - 
California wrestles with a burgeoning Mexican immigration.

More questions than answers but at least let us ask ourselves the right 
questions.

Kevin Saldanha
Mississauga, Canada.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> Date: Thu, 19 May 2005 10:24:04 +0530
> From: Antonio Menezes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: goanet@goanet.org
> Subject: [Goanet]INDIA : CASTE AND THE FUTURE
> Reply-To: goanet@goanet.org
>
> Our media is full of news that India, in future, is going to be the
> third largest industrial power  after the U.S. and China and that, in
> addition, we shall enjoy the advantage of having the largest pool  of
> working age population as compared to the other two, which is indeed a
> very good feel factor.
>
> Let us consult our history. India is not going to be rich for the
> first time in her lifetime, period.Her past prosperous times had
> attracted the Aryans, the Turks, the Mughals from the north west and
> the British came from the south west..
>
> There is , however, one societal factor  that has not changed in all
> these past 30 centuries or so.The same upper class forms 5% of our
> population, about 25% is the same middle class and the rest 70% are
> our poor masses whose lives were and still are so miserable that they
> could not have cared less whether they were ruled by the Aryans,
> Turks, Mughals,or the British.
>
> So how do we go about changing the hereditary proportion and bring the
> majority of our masses , at least, to the level of the lower middle
> classes ? Provide them with reasonable income and better health and
> eductional facilities ?  These elementary measures can and do work
> wonders in the sub-Saharan Africa; but in India we require an
> additional requisite of providing relief to the much battered psyche=20
> of our masses, which today stand totally deformed as a result of

[Goanet]Re: Tutti-Sensitiviti

[Kevin]

Gabe and Jose,

In general I enjoy your posts even though I may not agree with everything you
present.  I really didn't remember who posted the joke and wasn't about to go
back through all the digests to find the illustrious contributor (who ended up
identifying his bias anyway).  Also, I didn't want to get into the
"Uganda/Tanzania" issue of wrongly crediting it but did want to point out how
an seemingly innocuous event could adversly affect some members of a diverse
groups such as on GoaNet.  Why can't we all be held to same standards that are
expected of Santosh?

As a joke, it was marginal as it made use of a poor pun.  As a statement, it
titillated at the expense of an identifiable group.  Gabe, you added insult to
injury by stating the obvious.  Do you not think there are any homosexuals on
this list?  Jose, what did you expect your "broken-wristed" colleagues to do
but laugh while inwardly probably seething.  It is exactly this type of
sentiment that has to change if we are to respect each other on this forum and
in life.  I'm no "angel" myself as I may be offensive to the religiously
inclined but I'm trying to be more sensitive and will expect to be reprimanded
when I slip up as well.  But for now, I have decided to state my objections
whenever I perceive an injustice.  Sorry guys, I'm not even on the Admin
team yet ...  so to pre-answer your question of... "So who died and made
you the boss?" ...  YOUR CONSCIENCE :-)))

So far, I'm enjoying being back on GoaNet even though I may not contribute as
often as I'd like to.  Hope I don't get kicked off.

Kevin Saldanha
Mississauga, Canada
ps. I have edited out Jose's comments as I didn't have his permission to repost
them to the group.  /ks



jose colaco wrote:

> On 17/05/05, Kevin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I would be remiss if I didn't point out my disgust at whoever posted the
> "tuti frutti" joke.  You definitely offended some members of this list with
> it.  This list is as good at it's lowest common denominator... let's try to
> raise that standard.
>
> >From: Gabe Menezes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> RESPONSE: Sorry I touched a raw nerve, the only ones who might have taken
> offence would IMHO have been gays.

[Goanet]Biodiversity hotspots

[Kevin]

The delicate ecology of the western ghats (including Goa) can be
verified online, this site being one by Conservation International to
highlight the need to preserve our natural heritage before it is all
logged, mined or developed.

http://www.biodiversityhotspots.org/xp/Hotspots/ghats/

Kevin Saldanha
Mississauga, Canada

[Goanet]Constructive bashing

[Kevin]

I am amazed by the patience of some contributors to GoaNet and by the
insolence of others.  I have been trying to keep up with all the various
threads and every now and then something jumps out that needs to be
addressed but as Bosco mentioned in his Admin message, we members too
have real lives away from the list.

There will be opinions from every quarter that will be argued for and
against but if we all keep in mind that apart from being a goan
cybertinto for chatting, this list hopefully will generate ideas for the
betterment of Goa and will not just be used to feed individual egos.
Let us learn from rather than try to teach each other.  A byline from a
colleague struck a chord  -  "Quit asking people what they think. Begin
watching what they do. Ignore their words; study their actions"  which
revealed an interesting site and article when I googled the phrase...
http://www.wizardacademy.com/showmemo.asp

Some threads (eg. the US led war in Iraq) have little to do with Goa but
others (eg. Catholic religion) is a hot issue as after the Portuguese
led domination and conversions, it has left deep rooted influences on
Goan traditions, culture and society.  But the fact that Konkani posts
outnumber Portuguese ones (English being taken for granted as the
dominant medium of communication) goes to show that the main intent of
this list is our geographic commonality rather than religious or
political affiliations.

Having said that, there are certain norms of decency that should be
observed when dealing with others in a public forum and that is the
avoidance of personal insults to identifiable entities, whether they be
individuals (clergy, devotees, professionals, etc.) or groups (eg.
ethnic, religious or based on sexual orientation), the members of which
often have no influence on their inclusion.

I would be remiss if I didn't point out my disgust at whoever posted the
"tuti frutti" joke.  You definitely offended some members of this list
with it.  This list is as good at it's lowest common denominator...
let's try to raise that standard.

Kevin Saldanha
Mississauga, Canada

[Goanet]Re: Humanists, IMHO, Confession

[Kevin]

27;m sorry for boring you with this blog but I thought that a clarification was 
in order.

Sincerely,

Kevin Saldanha




---
* G * O * A * N * E * T *** C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S *
---
Make your mother in Goa happy on Mothers' Day.
http://www.goa-world.com/goa/expressions/mothersday/

Limited "Mother's Happiness" packages. First come, first serve.
---

[Goanet]Re: Before and after the Big Bang

[Kevin]

--
|   3rd Annual Konkan Fruit Fest, Goa - May 6-8, 2005|
||
|  Today's Events include Mango Eating Competition, Fruit carving and|
|  Cultural Programs. Check out http://konkanfruit.swiki.net | 
--  
  
Thanks, Santosh...

I stand corrected in the details that I spewed from memory.   I'm only
human!

Nasci... I unconditionally apologize to all the dukors I may have
offended.

George... no, Columbus' exploits did not feature in my decision to leave
the Knights although he wasn't the only vicious European explorer
Vasco-da-Gama comes to mind.  But now that you bring it up, I was never
comfortable with the connotation of the Knights who were associated with
pushing Christianity during the crusades, I think (forgive me if my
history is flawed).   Fr. McGiveny must have had some connection to
Freemasons as I couldn't  believe the similarity in the degree
ceremonies (No, I haven't joined them... I saw it on a documentary on
VisionTV recently).

v.f. ...  Thanks for the call for prayers on my behalf.  However, they
may serve others better.  Yes, I am a dukran-cho-vois.   I may have a
closer rapport with some of my patients than some people ;-)  What do
you do?

Kevin Saldanha

--- "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
>What follows should be general knowledge but I'll
>throw it out just in case.  Any of this can be
>verified online.
>

Kevin,

In the interest of providing accurate information in a
public forum such as this, which is always of the
highest concern to me, I would like to point out a few
inaccuracies in the otherwise admirable account that
you have offered.


---
* G * O * A * N * E * T *** C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S *
---
Make your mother in Goa happy on Mothers' Day.
http://www.goa-world.com/goa/expressions/mothersday/

Limited "Mother's Happiness" packages. First come, first serve.
---

[Goanet]Deconversion of a Goan Catholic

[Kevin]

Dear Brother Pat,

Yes, I am the one and same... I resigned from the KoC with a letter to the 
Grand Knight stating that if membership in the council required me to believe 
in a god then I would have to bow out as the concept of god(s) is essentially 
man-made.  I came to that conclusion after the arrogance of a local priest 
made me start thinking of the source of his powers!  I have discussed this 
with him and his associate pastor and have not been satisfied with their 
answers.  'Have faith in God' is not good enough for me at this point.

At the time of my 'deconversion' (about 18m ago) I was Chief Counsellor for 
our Columbian Squires circle and very involved with the 12087 council.  But 
somehow I felt the whole system was hypocritical (eg. availing off the 
proceeds of bingo gambling to fund their activities, etc.) and started 
investigating why I dared to doubt the faith I had grown up to be comfortable 
with.  The more I read, the more disenchanted I became with the Catholic 
church and started looking into other religions to find out what was the 
appeal to their adherants.  It became clear that early childhood exposure to 
religious ideas are virtually impossible to change later in life and for want 
of a better term, I felt I was brainwashed into Christianity.  Apart from the 
few moral teachings, most of what the church has to offer relies on blind 
faith.  They have stuck to ancient ideas, reluctant to change with the times.  
If church teachings were innocuous, I would probably have not been so 
adamantly opposed to their indoctrination but when the congregation is bullied 
into voting for the party that opposes same sex marriage, I see an 
overstepping of their mandate and an unconstitutional mixing of church and 
state.

There is a certain amount of trepidation attached to living outside the box 
(of pews) which many feel they are not prepared to do 'just in case'.  
Agnosticism is a cop-out for fence sitters.  Cafeteria catholics pick and 
choose those parts that fit in with their lives and ignore the rest.  The 
double standards were just too many to reconcile.  In this day of rampant
heterosexual AIDS transmission and third world overpopulation, the church 
insists (and threatens dissidents with hellfire) on banning contraception and 
advocation of safe sex, teaching of the morality of abstinence instead.  On 
one hand an ailing pontiff avails himself of modern medicine but then cries 
foul when a brain dead individual is taken off artificial life support.  It 
goes on and on

I have since joined and publicly support an all encompassing worldview 
proposed by the Secular Humanists which does not include an external god.  
Apart from Buddhism, all other religions believe in a supernatural deity that 
relies on blind faith for acceptance.  I equate that with superstition and 
have yet to hear a convincing argument for separating the two.

I know these views will be very hard for many of the members of this list to 
comprehend or accept and I am not here to challenge anyone's beliefs.  All I 
say is look into your hearts and decide for yourself.  You have the power 
within you to create your own destiny but don't be fooled for an instant that 
your afterlife will be any different from the steak you had for lunch.

Pat, you and all the other Knights around the world will always be my  
brothers, but so will the Hindus, Muslims, Atheists, pedophile priests and 
mass murderers.  We are human animals first and everything else second.  So, 
while I understand your concern at the radical change in my philosophy, please 
don't take it personally.

Sincerely,

Kevin Saldanha

ps. the office of the Devils Advocate was abolished by JP2 to speed up 
canonization of saints during his reign, remember?
/ks

pps.  Fr. Ivo, I do not really wish to get into a tit-for-tat argument as to 
who is more wrong about their beliefs or enumerate the inconsistencies in 
theology over the ages.  You have a job to do and I commend you for your 
tenacity.  But in a strange twist of circumstances, I do feel that god gave me 
the power to see the light.  After all, He put atheists on this earth to keep 
an eye on the religious folk  ;-)  /ks

---
* G * O * A * N * E * T *** C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S *
---
Make your mother in Goa happy on Mothers' Day.

http://www.goa-world.com/goa/expressions/mothersday/

Limited "Mother's Happiness" packages. First come, first serve.
---

[Goanet]Land of Pigs, Priests and Crosses...

[Kevin Saldanha]

The subject line is one of my favourite descriptions of our homeland, Goa.
Obviously, the current debate on the Church and it's stand on 
homosexuality, same sex marriages, deviant behaviour and celibacy is a 
hot topic.  But why on GoaNet?  Because a vast majority of the members 
of this list have been deeply influenced by the centuries of religious 
domination by the Portugese colonial rule and were fearful of gods even 
before our conversion to Catholicism.

But while delving into this national psyche, I came up with the 
surprising fact that is really wasn't God who created man but man who 
created God(s) for our own spiritual comfort.  With all due respect to 
the men of the cloth and zealous fundamentalists, religion with all it's 
trappings have stifled us for long enough.  When theologians' literal 
interpretations of the Bible (a human-generated document) tell us that 
"God" created Adam and Eve and that marriage is ONLY between man and 
woman because of that, I have to laugh. 

I was baptised and brought up in the Catholic faith by loving parents 
who thought they were doing the best for their children.  Who among us 
would want anything less for our own children.  But therein lies the 
inherent problem with religion.  Before we have a chance to think for 
ourselves, we are already trapped in a web of superstitions.  Unlikely 
stories are given credence by being repeated over and over again.  Lies 
told over millenia don't become truths.  Meaningless prayers are recited 
by rote and drummed into the heads of the multitudes.  Our own 
creativity and quest for knowledge is stifled under the fear of 
'panamericanism'.  Let us learn about our origins, culture and fellow 
humans from authentic sources and not from those who's self preservation 
interests lead us into temptation of believing nonsense.

Is it any wonder that many of the polarized views on this forum are so 
pathetically funny?  As an atheist, I can no longer reconcile God's 
involvement in our day to day lives.  For those who need to cling on to 
a supernatural deity, don't shove your beliefs on others.  The Church 
has been wrong before and will be wrong again but arrogant divine 
inspiration will not get it any brownie points.  The current climate 
with the succession of Benedict XVI to the throne will polarize an 
already fractured organization.  My hope is that knowledge will prevail 
over superstition (otherwise known as FAITH)

Kevin Saldanha

[Goanet]Re: *** Goanet launches new website

[Kevin]

This is great news, Herman.  Congratulations on keeping this forum the number 
one
mode of communication among our dispersed but active community.

I was on the goanet.org site yesterday reading some of the mails that piqued my
interest from Fred's post on GoaNet-News (.. Cafeteria Catholics being the main
one) and tried replying to a message.  Not being a member of the main GoaNet
mailing list, I'm not sure where my message went.  Is it possible to reply to
threads via the website without being a member of GoaNet? (there was a hyperlink
to goanet@goanet.org after the poster's name, which I used, by no "Reply" option
to the thread).  Is there a NO MAIL option for GoaNet membership where we can 
read
and respond to relevant threads online (as you can on Yahoogroups) without 
having
to sift through the daily swill?

I unsubscribed from active GoaNet participation a few years ago over the volume 
of
mail and unpleasantness from one member but I have now grown a thicker skin and
the digest format may alleviate inbox clutter if no other option is available.
I'm ready to get back into the fray and air some of my controversial views ;-)))

Kevin Saldanha

Herman Carneiro wrote:

> ##
> # Don't just read the news...discuss it. Learn more about Goa via Goanet #
> # Goanet was setup in 1994 and has spent the last decade building a  #
> # lasting Goan non-profit, volunteer-driven network in cyberspace.   #
> # Visit the archives http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/ #
> # To join, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and ask to join Goanet.   #
> ##
>
> Dear Friends of Goanet,
>
> With the Goan community's active participation on Goanet driving the dialogue
> amongst Goans in Goa and the Diaspora, it gives me great pleasure to announce
> that Goanet has a new and improved website at www.goanet.org.
>
> At the outset, our main objective was to provide our members with a user
> friendly interface to access the mailing list archives.  As the project
> developed it took on a life of its own.  The website now provides some novel
> features.
>
> WEBSITE FEATURES
>
> 1.  News
>
> You can now access the latest news from Goanet on our website.
>
> 2.  Goanet Reader
>
> This features interesting essays submitted by a variety of authors.
>
> 3.  Mailing lists
>
> This section features a user friendly way to subscribe to the Goanet mailing
> lists.  You can also change your membership preferences here. Also included in
> this section is access to the popular Goanet archives dating back to 1999.
>
> 4.  Tutorials
>
> For those of us who have trouble posting to Goanet in plain text, we have a
> simple tutorial to walk you through the process.
>
> 5.  Contact Us
>
> This section provides all our contact information.
>
> 6.  Announcements
>
> This feature provides a simple method for us to communicate information to our
> website visitors.
>
> 7.  Support Goanet
>
> Goanet is a non-profit volunteer-driven organization that provides a valuable
> public service.  We rely on your support to provide these services. This
> section provides a number of ways in which you can support Goanet.
>
> 8.  Polls
>
> We hope to ask your opinion on some sizzling topics.
>
> 9.  Events Calendar
>
> Goanet is a unique platform for communication worldwide. We hope to provide
> Goans around the world with a list of events both in their countries and
> abroad. Please feel free to submit events in your corner of the world.
>
> 10.  Aichea Dissak Chintop (Thought for the Day)
>
> Dominic Fernandes' thoughtful one-liners are featured in this section.
>
> As you can see, our website is filled with interesting and useful
> information.  And, this is just the start. We plan to develop our website
> further to provide some innovative tools.  Having said this, we will not
> neglect our mailing lists.  We will develop our website and mailing lists to
> compliment each other. We hope that our members will provide direction to us
> through their continued feedback.
>
> We'd like to thank the Goanet community for its support over the last 10
> years.  Goanet owes its success to you. Special thanks go to our volunteers
> for their outstanding public service: Fred Noronha, Viviana Coelho, Bosco
> D'Mello, and new volunteers Michelle D'Souza and Christina Pinto.
>
> Enjoy the website!
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Herman Carneiro
> Founder, Goanet

[Goanet]Humanity, homosexuality and priesthood

[Kevin Saldanha]

I'm surprised to read that you consider homosexuality to be a 'deviation 
from the norm'! What exactly do you mean by this?

IMHO, every biological population is made up of a bell curve of 
individuals, 95% of which will lie within what we consider homogenous 
and therefore 'normal' for that population but the 5% (2.5% at each end) 
will be CONSIDERED deviants from that normal population BUT ARE STILL 
VERY MUCH A PART OF A NATURAL BIOLOGICAL POPULATION.  This is where the 
world's physically identifiable but mentally homosexual population ends 
up (the physical hermaphrodites occupying the very 0.5% tips of the 
tails of the curve).

Therefore, since the time humankind evolved from the common primate 
ancestor, there have been a small percentage (variously quoted between 5 
and 10 percent) that have fallen into this grey area wrt their sexual 
orientation.  It is this group that has been denied their human rights 
in various arenas most recently, their right to profess, in public, 
their committment to each other.

To hear learned (scientific, medical or theological) people condemn 
homosexuality as depraved, sinful, aberrant or an abomination is an 
exposure of their ignorance of some of the most gentle, caring and 
loving individuals I have ever had the pleasure of meeting.

Having said that, the incidence of homosexuality in the priesthood is 
much higher than 4:1000.  What do you think happened to all those men 
who were not interested in getting married in the 'good old days'?  Were 
they squirreled away in monastaries and encouraged to take vows of 
celibacy?  Why do you think there is a dearth of vocations from 
countries where alternative lifestyles are accepted?  Why are most 
vocations these days from countries where religious fervour and fear of 
divine retribution are the highest?  Religious life is an honourable 
answer inculcating the need for celibacy.

Kevin Saldanha

[Goanet]Founding Member of the Goan Overseas Association (Toronto) passed away on Feb. 17th in Goa

[Kevin D'Costa]

On  February 17, 2005, one of the founders and leaders of the Goan Overseas 
Association of Ontario passed away while on holiday in Goa.

Neves Menezes first came to Canada in 1964 from Nairobi, where he had played a 
significant part in the organizations of the Goan community there. He thought 
of doing the same here, but at the time there were only a hundred Goans or so 
in Toronto. It would take another 6 years to form a critical mass.

Neves was among the 24 people who launched the association on April 5, 1970. 
He would serve in the first seven Committees, as President twice (1971 and 
1977) and numerous other positions since. However, it was in the depth of his 
service that he excelled. Neves probably had a bigger impact on the G.O.A. 
than any other single person through changes to the Constitution. In his 
tenure as President, the emblems (coat of arms and flag) were chosen. The 
largest impact he had was as Chairman of the Rules Revision Committee in 1981, 
where he introduced a change that gave the vote to the spouse of members and 
dependant children over the age of 18. To evaluate the impact, consider that 
in the first 10 years of the G.O.A. there were scant 6 women members of the 
Executive, but by 1985, 40% of the Executive comprised of women - and this has 
been carried on since. By this encouraging signal sent to the youth, the 
proportion of Young Adults and Youth in the Executive likewise rose to 40% or 
higher.

Neves was a team player - he worked with others to promote programs and 
encouraged others to do their best. Through one of these exercises the G.O.A. 
held its first cultural festival for the general public through a one-day Goan 
Festival at Harbourfront. This surely was a model for many other cultural 
events that have transpired since.

As he left the day to day running of the G.O.A. to younger people, he kept in 
touch by serving on the Board of Trustees and the Goan Charitable Organization.

In his personal life, Neves was very prayerful and was a staunch member of the 
Legion of Mary. He was very well known by the pastor and many parishioners of 
St. Patrick's Parish in Mississauga.

Thank you Neves for all you were to your family, friends, and communities; may 
Jesus now reward you accordingly. We will miss you. To use your favourite 
adage, "You practiced what you preached".

Neves is survived by his loving wife Mabel, daughter Jacqueline, son Norbert 
and daughter-in-law Valerie. Condolence messages may be sent to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Written By John Nazareth on behalf of the family
Toronto, Canada

[Goanet]Founding Member of the Goan Overseas Association (Toronto) passed away on Feb. 17th in Goa

[Kevin D'Costa]

*Neves Menezes (Born October 2, 1928 -Died  February 17, 2005)*
Written By John Nazareth on behalf of the family
**
On February 17, 2005, one of the founders and leaders of the Goan 
Overseas Association of Ontario passed away while on holiday in Goa.

Neves Menezes first came to Canada in 1964 from Nairobi, where he had 
played a significant part in the organizations of the Goan community 
there. He thought of doing the same here, but at the time there were 
only a hundred Goans or so in Toronto. It would take another 6 years to 
form a critical mass.

Neves was among the 24 people who launched the association on April 5, 
1970. He would serve in the first seven Committees, as President twice 
(1971 and 1977) and numerous other positions since. However, it was in 
the depth of his service that he excelled. Neves probably had a bigger 
impact on the G.O.A. than any other single person through changes to the 
Constitution. In his tenure as President, the emblems (coat of arms and 
flag) were chosen. The largest impact he had was as Chairman of the 
Rules Revision Committee in 1981, where he introduced a change that gave 
the vote to the spouse of members and dependant children over the age of 
18. To evaluate the impact, consider that in the first 10 years of the 
G.O.A. there were scant 6 women members of the Executive, but by 1985, 
40% of the Executive comprised of women – and this has been carried on 
since. By this encouraging signal sent to the youth, the proportion of 
Young Adults and Youth in the Executive likewise rose to 40% or higher.

Neves was a team player – he worked with others to promote programs and 
encouraged others to do their best. Through one of these exercises the 
G.O.A. held its first cultural festival for the general public through a 
one-day Goan Festival at Harbourfront. This surely was a model for many 
other cultural events that have transpired since.

As he left the day to day running of the G.O.A. to younger people, he 
kept in touch by serving on the Board of Trustees and the Goan 
Charitable Organization.

In his personal life, Neves was very prayerful and was a staunch member 
of the Legion of Mary. He was very well known by the pastor and many 
parishioners of St. Patrick’s Parish in Mississauga.

Thank you Neves for all you were to your family, friends, and 
communities; may Jesus now reward you accordingly. We will miss you. To 
use your favourite adage, “You practiced what you screeched”.

Neves is survived by his loving wife Mabel, daughter Jacqueline, son 
Norbert and daughter-in-law Valerie. Condolence messages may be sent to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

----
Kevin D'Costa
Toronto, Canada

[Goanet]Goan Charitable Organization hosts Charity Dance for Tsunami Aid Relief

[Kevin D'Costa]

To be Held on Saturday February 5, 2005
At the Claireport Place, Banquet & Convention Centre
65 Claireport Crescent (Hwy. # 427 N. & Finch)
Etobicoke, Ontario M9W 6V5
From 6:00 p.m. to 1:00 a.m.
A Delicious Buffet Dinner, followed by a wide variety of Desserts. Music will be 
provided by the fabulous "Naked Flame" and D.J. Carlito. Also Featuring: 
Violinist Granvillle Pinto, Dennis Davids and other well known Artists.
All proceeds will be directed to the Canadian Red Cross through the Goan 
Charitable Organization, Registration Number: 11923-53151RR0001
Tax Receipts will be issued for Personal Donations Only of $10.00 and over.
Dress Code Strictly Formal.
Ticket: $35.00 per person (Non-Refundable).
Prizes Galore Donated by Private and Corporate Sponsors.
Deadline for Ticket Sales: February 1st, 2005
To purchase Tickets, please contact:
West End (Oakville-Hamilton): 
Olavo Ferreira Tel: 905- 845-6793

West End (North Mississauga) 
Janette Rebello Tel: 905-785-6699

West End (Central Mississauga) 
Lourdes Mendes Tel: 416-271-5436

West End (South Mississauga) 
Louise Menezes Tel: 905-891-3106

East End (Scarborough) 
Sheila D'Souza Tel: 905-609-2415

[Goanet]Re: [Goanet-news]GoanetReader -- Goa's politicians have failed its people

[Kevin Saldanha, DVM]

time to start a Goan Humanist chapter to join all Goans under one umbrella
celebrating their humanity instead of artifical religious divisions.

Kevin

Re: Are you truly a M$ desktop alternative?

[Kevin D. Kinsey, DaleCo, S.P.]

Aaron Benson wrote:
Hi,
 

For me, yes.  YMMV.
If you've 500 machines to switch over, I'd sure as
heck buy one more and stick something else on it.
You'll never learn as much from reading and not
doing and you will from trying to do and reading 
Kevin Kinsey
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CVS Update: xc (branch: trunk)

[Kevin E. Martin]

CVSROOT:/home/x-cvs
Module name:xc
Changes by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]   04/07/17 13:41:00

Log message:
  Revert change to MAXFORMATS to maintain binary compatibility

Modified files:
  xc/programs/Xserver/include/:
misc.h 
  
  Revision  ChangesPath
  3.31  +2 -2  xc/programs/Xserver/include/misc.h

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syntax-rules and conditional define

[Kevin Ryde]

In guile 1.6.3 on a recent i386 debian, I thought to make myself a
"define if not already defined" using

(use-modules (ice-9 syncase))
(define-syntax define-maybe
  (syntax-rules ()
((define-maybe name value)
 (if (not (defined? 'name))
 (define name value)

(define-maybe x 123)

but run with "guile -s foo.scm" gives

/down/guile/usr/share/guile/1.6/ice-9/syncase.scm:130:16: In procedure scm-error 
in expression (scm-error (quote misc-error) who ...):
/down/guile/usr/share/guile/1.6/ice-9/syncase.scm:130:16: invalid context for 
definition of x

I guess I'm not sure if this is a bug, but

(if (not (defined? 'x))
(define x 123))

worked at the top-level, so I thought perhaps it could be expected to
in a macro too.


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