[Goanet]CATHOLIC ???
I have been reading a lot about the POPE, GAY PRIESTS, CAFETARIA CATHOLICS, WOMEN AS PRIESTS, RECENTLY ABOUT THE SIGN OF PEACE IN THE CHURCH. and we should expect more of such stuff on net. Why should catholic related issues only be discussed ? Is our mentality confined only in questioning catholic religion and its principles? Can someone enlighten us whether communities from other religion discuss such issues the way we discuss pertaining to religion ? Let's go in for a change of topic pleasee. Sunil
[Goanet]CATHOLIC ???
sunil/avertano wrote... Message: 19 Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 21:51:17 -0400 From: avertano teles To: goanet@goanet.org Subject: [Goanet]CATHOLIC ??? Reply-To: goanet@goanet.org I have been reading a lot about the POPE, GAY PRIESTS, CAFETARIA CATHOLICS, WOMEN AS PRIESTS, RECENTLY ABOUT THE SIGN OF PEACE IN THE CHURCH. and we should expect more of such stuff on net. Why should catholic related issues only be discussed ? Is our mentality confined only in questioning catholic religion and its principles? Can someone enlighten us whether communities from other religion discuss such issues the way we discuss pertaining to religion ? Let's go in for a change of topic pleasee. Sunil __ Come on Sunil or Avertano or whoever you really are! Be proactive and write about something else. Start another thread, and go on from there. But please do not tell people not to write on a particular subject/topic. If someone has something to say, this is their forum to do so. Have you given a thought that there may be many who actually want to read on subjects pertaining to religion? Cheers! Salus
[Goanet]CATHOLIC ???
Goa-netters are sophisticated enough to enjoy a good sensible and educational post on what ever subject, especally if it is related to us and that includes our religion. Personally what I find unfortunate and disheartening is that many posts on Goanet, and surprisingly from seasoned / educated posters, are full of contradictions and non-sense. There is little semantic definition and often distortions, of the issues being discussed. Many of these intelligent goa-netters love to argue, often for the sake of an argument. They often, 'put words in other mouths' not to mention misconstrue another's post, just so that they can make and then debate an issue. Santosh is my friend and colleague. I and a majority of Goa-netters, have much respect for him. However let's analyze his post below: Is his beef (which we have all read) against religion or is it against an individual? And does he make that distinction is his diatribe against the religious belief at issue? "Give religion in general, or any particular religion, a free pass" and that is same as those "with have a sick and depraved mentality, ... who should never be allowed to hide behind any kind of religious immunity"? ... There ought to be no limits on religious bashing on Goanet. The above is seen among the best of us. Frankly I would expect the above from a new / novice poster who cannot draw the difference between the true faith and someone's interpretation of another person's practice of the faith. But it is difficult to excuse a very intelligent person who does not take the trouble to separate them. As mentioned in the past: On Goanet, When does an intelligent expose end and a personal activism (sometimes ignorant oversight) begin? What I find disconcerting about Santosh's posts of religion is: He care-freely walks away from Hinduism by just stating that he no longer follows it. Then he goes on to pontificate / bash very other religion except about the Belief where he could make the greatest impact, if he chooses to do so. (And I have no doubt about his sincerity). This is not dissimilar to Mario Govea lecturing to Goans how they should handle the issue of caste and marriage among Goans (which I fully agree). But then Mario tells us that all four of his kids are married and likely to marry Caucasians aka white (and a reference to race which was uncalled for).:=)) I noticed how the topic of homosexuals in the Catholic faith suddenly ended, when the issues being discussed were defined or when the contradictions or non-issues exposed. I was also amused on the dead-silence when I suggested to Goa-netters to practice cafeteria-rules in their home and tell us how ther 'personal reforms' have worked. Similarly there were no takers among Goan social activists on discussing the issue of divorce among Diaspora Goans. And this includes the divorcees on cyber Goa, who otherwise vocally persue their own agenda against the Catholic Chruch. How we hate to talk about anything that is "too close for comfort!" :=)) Regards. GL Santosh Helekar: If the above is meant to suggest that all religions should be treated equally as far as criticism is concerned, I agree 100%. But if it is meant to give religion in general, or any particular religion, a free pass or some kind of special treatment, then I have strong objections. We ought to shine a bright light on all harmful religious ideas and practices. We ought to recognize that religion does not necessarily make a person good. There are many among the pious and religious who have a sick and depraved mentality, as well. They should never be allowed to hide behind any kind of religious immunity. There ought to be no limits on religious bashing on Goanet. Pat: Unbridled singling out of a single religious entity is indicative of a sick and depraved mentality. While encouraging free speech, Goanet Administration should establish limits on religious bashing. Devout Netters will otherwise be forced to quit instead of being unwittingly held as a captive audience.
Re: [Goanet] CATHOLIC ???
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > >Santosh is my friend and colleague. I and a majority >of cyber-Goans,have much respect for him. However >let's analyze his post below: Is his beef (which we >have all read) against religion or is it against >an individual? And does he make that distinction is >his diatribe against the religious belief at issue? > Dear Gilbert, Thanks for the customary kindness. But your charges against me are false. You are misrepresenting my views horribly. Have you read my posts on religious issues and ever tried to understand them? With all due respect, your gratuitous analysis of my response to Pat de Sousa is way off the mark. First, my beef is against people who try to impose their religious views on others, who want special exemptions for religious matters in secular/pluralistic public forums such as this one, and who brazenly exhibit their holier than thou attitude (like you do in every single one of your posts) in public. > >But it is difficult to excuse a very intelligent >person who does not take the trouble to separate them. >As mentioned in the past: On cyber-Goa: When does an >intelligent expose end and a personal activism >(sometimes ignorant oversight) begin? > What are you talking about here? What is the purpose of this innuendo? The excerpt of mine to which you are referring simply states the following: 1. Religious belief and piety does not necessarily make a person good. 2. There are many among the religious and the pious who have a sick and depraved mentality. 3. Religious issues should not receive immunity against criticism in secular public forums. 4. Those who have a sick and depraved mentality (and I now add those who are scamming or misinforming the public) should not be allowed to hide behind religious immunity. Do you disagree with any of the above assertions? If you do, please explain yourself. Cut out the rest of the nonsense. > >What I find disconcerting about Santosh's posts of >religion is: He care-freely walks away from Hinduism >by just stating that he no longer follows it. Then he >goes on to pontificate / bash very other religion >except about the Belief where he could make the >greatest impact, if he chooses to do so. (And I have >no doubt about his sincerity). > Nonsense! I have criticized Hinduism and all harmful Hindu notions and practices on Goanet and Goa-Goans for the last 10 years. I have rebutted the views of Hindutva sympathizers whenever they have ventured in these forums. If you care to go through the archives you will find my criticisms against the following presently relevant, harmful and anti-scientific practices of Hinduism: 1. Casteism 2. Astrology 3. Vastushashtra 4. Quackery in the name of Ayurveda 5. Vedic Mathematics 6. Hindutva philosophy and historical revisionism 7. Hindu godmen such as Satya Sai Baba 8. Hindu cults such as ISKCON 9. Hindu miracles and miracle hysteria such as lactophilic Ganesh idols 10. Contradictions in the Bhagvad Gita. 11. Hindu pseudospiritualism 12. Unwaranted bloated depictions of the knowledge and achievements of our ancestors. Will you retract your above false charge against me after reading through the archives? > >I noticed how the topic of homosexuals in the Catholic >faith suddenly ended, when the issues being discussed >were defined or when the contradictions or non-issues >exposed. > Gilbert, the problem with you is you give too much credit to yourself, which frankly you don't deserve. Honestly, your posts on the issue of homosexuals did not make any sense at all. I did not respond to what you wrote because I did not want to digress into unrelated and confused matters that you raised. For instance, you say that Fr. Ivo and Nasci Caldeira are right about homosexuality, when they claim based on no evidence that it is a sickness. And then you turn around and say that I am also right about this issue when I say and present a professional consensus statement of the American Psychiatric Association that homosexuality is not a sickness. Do you think this type of confusion and obfuscation, coming from an intelligent person, deserves a response? Do you tell your patient that the oncologist who says he has cancer is right, and that the other oncologist who says he does not have cancer is also right? Cheers, Santosh
[Goanet]CATHOLIC post
! How Sweet it is to see two adult men Kiss and Make up. It brings tears to my eyes.:=)) This beats even Bollywood drama. My post is to make an important point of how two very sensible and knowledgeable persons can be 'off tangent' on their posts and insult each other - yes each other - to ask for the other's expulsion from cyber Goa on some irrelevant issue. Now both parties claim "occasional slip-ups on my part." Hope this is a learning lesson to all of us. A good saying: For good manners: Don't argue Religion, Family and Nationality. Regards, GL Santosh Helekar Dear Nasci, Thanks for that concession. I am extremely happy and relieved to be able to call you a gentleman who merely has a difference of opinion with me on certain issues. I retract all the accusations I made against you because I recognize the difficulties of communicating one's ideas clearly through this electronic medium. I will chalk everything that has been said by you and me up to a mutual misunderstanding on our part. Regarding your question, I think I would agree with you. But let me clarify as to what I would agree about. I have nothing against people's private belief or lack of belief in God or in any religion or cult. My best friend here in Houston is a devout Catholic. Many of my closest friends and relatives are Hindu fundamentalists. My best childhood friend in Goa is a devout Catholic. And lastly I admit that there might have been occasional slip-ups on my part. Cheers, --- Nasci Caldeira <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: We should only discuss what effects some religious practices have on other religious or non religious communities. Would you agree with this?
[Goanet]Catholic idiosyncrasy
Alfred Tavares wrote... AT [Cecil, Without fear of being branded a bigot in this case it has to be a Catholic; mind you not necessarily a devout Catholic but certainly a most rampant one: to capture the spirit of abandon, you see?] CP I doubt the Catholic Church in Goa will agree with your characterisation of Goan Catholics as having the spirit of abandon. In fact none of my Catholic friends are abandoning spirit. Smoking maybe. But spirit is still consumed in large quantities. - AT [A Hindu can certainly qualify but it has to be a Hindu of the Loutulim or Curtorim type one inbibed with all Catholic idiosyncrasy. Put a true-saffron BJP character and it will come out ersatz, like Morarjee Dessai advertising Higland Pipers!] CP Celebrities endorsing products rarely consume them. You are also assuming that all non-Catholics are BJP. A saffronite wouldn't accept the role of King Momo anyway. So this is a mute point. My query is why a Hindu Goan, who meets the criteria of being suitable for the role of King Momo, has never been chosen in all these decades. --- AT [Please spare us the doldrums of a secular carnival, dear Cecil!] CP As hard as this may be to swallow, secularisation on all fronts is the only way forward. Let us revel in our differences - and our similarities. AT [That it has been institutionalized is nightmare enough. If you could persuade them to take back their sponsoring funds and restore the bachaanalian spontaneity that Carnival exuded in our (not yours) childhood.] CP There is nobody stopping anyone from celebrating Carnival in a spontaneous way. In the back streets of Fontainhas you will still see children throwing water balloons at each other. In some villages youth still go around in masks and costume and have a spontaneous, and spirited, celebration. Commercialisation and spontaneity can exist side-by-side. -- [Alfred de Tavares, Chacellor, Fraternity of Fools] Cecil Pinto Viva Carnival === ## # Send submissions for Goanet to [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # PLEASE remember to stay on-topic (related to Goa), and avoid top-posts # # More details on Goanet at http://joingoanet.shorturl.com/ # # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ##
Re: [Goanet]CATHOLIC ??? Confused !!!
--- Gilbert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: As mentioned in the past: On Goanet, When does an intelligent expose end and a personal activism (sometimes ignorant oversight) begin? > This is not dissimilar to Mario Govea lecturing to Goans how they should handle the issue of caste and marriage among Goans (which I fully agree). But then Mario tells us that all four of his kids are married and likely to marry Caucasians aka white (and a reference to race which was uncalled for).:=)) > Mario replies: Gilbert, rather than accuse you of ignorance, condescension, and being patronizing and contemptuous of those who disagree with you, the word confused seems to apply much better. You are second to none on Goanet in distorting and obfuscating an issue, as you thrash about in your frustrated attempts at making your obscure points. What I have "lectured" on the issue of caste is that caste exists among Catholic Goans, that it is an abomination and it is contradictory for Catholics to follow the caste system, and that it is high time it was abolished. Only a confused intellect like yours can see this as being contradicted by my three (not four that I know of) kids marrying whomever they chose to, without regard to caste or community. My kids seem to have learned well, they judge people as individuals, not based on some group they may happen to belong to by accident.
Re: [Goanet]CATHOLIC post
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > ! > How Sweet it is to see two adult men Kiss and Make > up. > It brings tears to my eyes.:=)) > This beats even Bollywood drama. > > My post is to make an important point of how two > very sensible and knowledgeable persons can be 'off > tangent' on their posts and insult each other - yes > each other - to ask for the other's expulsion from > cyber Goa on some irrelevant issue. Now both parties > claim "occasional slip-ups on my part." > > Hope this is a learning lesson to all of us. > A good saying: For good manners: Don't argue > Religion, Family and Nationality. > Regards, GL > Mario replies: Nasci and Santosh "off tangent" and insulting? Really? Isn't this a little like the pot calling two kettles black?
Re: [Goanet] CATHOLIC post
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > >to ask for the other's expulsion from cyber Goa on some >irrelevant issue. > Gilbert, Are you making things up here? Putting words in my mouth? What expulsion and what irrelevant issue? Cheers, Santosh
Re: [Goanet] CATHOLIC Religion posts
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > >You bash/lambaste religion because of any crack-pot >post that covers any of the following subjects that >you have outlined below. > Not true. You are mistaken. Would you consider your post on Cafeteria Catholics to which I responded, crackpot? If you remember, your post and my response to it led to a long discussion. You have posted many posts on the inquisition, some of which have elicited a response from me. Are they crackpot? Are Fr. Ivo's posts to which I have responded and will respond again, crackpot? > >The harm is when the micro-dissection starts. The >best is the recent gender examination of the >God-the-Father and the sexist innuendoes that >accompanied it. > Please don't blame me for your disagreement with someone else's posts. > >As a pediatrician you know what I mean.:=)) > I am not a pediatrician. > >Your list and points pretty much summarizes my >perspective and we are on the same page. > It is hard to know that from your posts. > >He or anybody else is not going to insult ME and MY >religion. > I am assuming this ME to whom you referred earlier as an "outstanding individual" is YOU. Why are YOU so special? Why is YOUR religion so special? Why is anybody's religion so special? Why should religion receive special treatment? > >Is it OK to be a rapist as long as one does not >discriminate against any single woman? > Are you equating me with a rapist? Is criticism of ideas and people in internet forums tantamount to rape? Are you raping me now? > >This is like saying that I should allow a man to >urinate in my front yard because he does that in >everybody else's yard. > Is criticism of ideas and people in internet forums tantamount to urination? Are you urinating on me now? > >I am sure the readers following this thread know this >is not a personal issue between Santosh and myself. >But rather the principle of the issues here. > Readers, Gilbert is right here. It is not a personal issue between him and me. It is just that his principles are different from mine. He equates criticism of some SPECIAL ideas and some SPECIAL people, using mild, acceptable and parliamentary language on the internet, with a crime, such as rape, and with obnoxious behavior, such as urination in someone's front yard. I don't. I wonder how many people in this forum would agree with him. And the irony is he started out by saying that he believes that my criticisms were against posts which he considered to be crackpot in the first place. Cheers, Santosh
[Goanet]Catholic Press Awards 2005
Nominations Invited For Catholic Press Awards 2005 By SAR NEWS PUNE, Maharashtra (SAR NEWS) -- The Indian Catholic Press Association (ICPA), the oldest 41-year-old Catholic press organization in Asia and affiliated to the Geneva-based International Catholic Union of the Press (UCIP), invites nominations for the ICPA 2005 awards. Any Christian may nominate an individual or publication/press institution of the Christian community, who have made significant contribution to promote, campaign for and defend Christian values, human rights and the cause of the poor and the marginalized people through journalism and mass communication for the following awards. 1.ICPA Fr Luis Carreno Award: The Rs 10,000 award to be conferred on an outstanding journalist/institution in India in English or any other recognized Indian language other than Hindi. 2. ICPA Swami Devanand Chakkungal Award: The Rs 10,000 award to be conferred on a journalist/institution in India for outstanding contribution to journalism and literature in Hindi language. 3. ICPA Fr John Barret Award For Best SAR News Reporter: Rs 10,000 to be conferred on SAR News reporter of the year. A panel of Christian editors will select the awardee. 4. ICPA Award For Best Reportage on Scheduled Castes, Scheduled Tribes And OBC: The Rs 10,000 to be conferred on a journalist/publication for promoting/campaigning the cause of the SC/ST and OBC. ICPA, a national organization of journalists, editors, publishers, teachers of journalism, publishing houses, news agencies, regional press association has been promoting excellence in professionalism and values in print media for over four decades. Since 2000, ICPA has constituted various awards to recognize outstanding contribution in the print media. Procedure For Nominations: Any person may nominate an individual journalist/publication/institution engaged in journalism and mass communications. No self nominations. All nominations should include: 1) A recommendation letter for the proposed candidate. 2) Resume of the candidate and in the case of a publication/institution a brief note on its achievements to deserve the award.3) two passport size photos of the nominated candidate. 4) Five latest published reports by the candidate. In case of regional languages, headlines should be in English and in case of a publication/institution, a list of achievement to deserve the award. Last Date To File Nominations: March 15, 2005 The awards will be conferred at the National Convention of Christian Journalists on April 10, 2005 at Pilar, Goa. Send nominations to: Michael Gonsalves, President, ICPA, 919, Synagogue Street, Next to Oriental Bank of Commerce, Camp, Pune 411 001. Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]/[EMAIL PROTECTED] Michael Gonsalves 919, Synagogue Street, Next to Oriental Bank of Commerce, Camp, Pune 411 001 INDIA. Residence Phones:+91-020-26134857/26138097 Cellphone: 098230-84995
[Goanet]Catholic Press Awards 2005
Nominations Invited For Catholic Press Awards 2005 By SAR NEWS PUNE, Maharashtra (SAR NEWS) -- The Indian Catholic Press Association (ICPA), the oldest 41-year-old Catholic press organization in Asia and affiliated to the Geneva-based International Catholic Union of the Press (UCIP), invites nominations for the ICPA 2005 awards. Any Christian may nominate an individual or publication/press institution of the Christian community, who have made significant contribution to promote, campaign for and defend Christian values, human rights and the cause of the poor and the marginalized people through journalism and mass communication for the following awards. 1.ICPA Fr Luis Carreno Award: The Rs 10,000 award to be conferred on an outstanding journalist/institution in India in English or any other recognized Indian language other than Hindi. 2. ICPA Swami Devanand Chakkungal Award: The Rs 10,000 award to be conferred on a journalist/institution in India for outstanding contribution to journalism and literature in Hindi language. 3. ICPA Fr John Barret Award For Best SAR News Reporter: Rs 10,000 to be conferred on SAR News reporter of the year. A panel of Christian editors will select the awardee. 4. ICPA Award For Best Reportage on Scheduled Castes, Scheduled Tribes And OBC: The Rs 10,000 to be conferred on a journalist/publication for promoting/campaigning the cause of the SC/ST and OBC. ICPA, a national organization of journalists, editors, publishers, teachers of journalism, publishing houses, news agencies, regional press association has been promoting excellence in professionalism and values in print media for over four decades. Since 2000, ICPA has constituted various awards to recognize outstanding contribution in the print media. Procedure For Nominations: Any person may nominate an individual journalist/publication/institution engaged in journalism and mass communications. No self nominations. All nominations should include: 1) A recommendation letter for the proposed candidate. 2) Resume of the candidate and in the case of a publication/institution a brief note on its achievements to deserve the award.3) two passport size photos of the nominated candidate. 4) Five latest published reports by the candidate. In case of regional languages, headlines should be in English and in case of a publication/institution, a list of achievement to deserve the award. Last Date To File Nominations: March 15, 2005 The awards will be conferred at the National Convention of Christian Journalists on April 10, 2005 at Pilar, Goa. Send nominations to: Michael Gonsalves, President, ICPA, 919, Synagogue Street, Next to Oriental Bank of Commerce, Camp, Pune 411 001. Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]/[EMAIL PROTECTED] Michael Gonsalves 919, Synagogue Street, Next to Oriental Bank of Commerce, Camp, Pune 411 001 INDIA. Residence Phones:+91-020-26134857/26138097 Cellphone: 098230-84995
[Goanet]Catholic Goans and Caste
Hi Gilbert, I am sorry I could not get back to you sooner because of travel/business but I was very conscious that I had to read your response to me and reply asap. However, on now reading your points to me, I got a distinct feeling that you were presenting, with great respect, an incredibly lightweight and confused argument in terms of both, logic and rhetoric on the issue of caste among Catholic Goans. My reading of your 5th Feb post, to me, and your subsequent posts to others, suggests that, on the one hand, you do not think casteism among Catholic Goans exists as such, especially today. Yet you make the peculiar suggestion that we should put our money where our mouth is and help those in lower castes to achieve betterment, presumably, because caste exists and continues. On the other hand, you also seem to argue that old practices and traditions by the casteists are understandable and imply that they should be allowed to continue on the basis that there is no hard evidence that they are disadvantageous to anybody on a cause and effect premise/basis. I therefore have to ask you to please make up your mind to save us time to get on to substantive issues rather than waste time on vacuous banter. Either you accept that casteism exists among Catholic Goans today, or it does not. Whatever, your answer, surely, you simply can't have it both ways if you want to retain your credibility on this issue. To my mind, The raison d'etre of caste is to unjustifiably privilege some over others and to set brother against brother. It is thus highly divisive and pervasive at all levels of society and there is no scientific and moral justification for its existence. I have spelt this out in some detail in previous Goanet posts on this topic. Nevertheless, casteism is very oppressive and dysfunctional by nature and this is the prime reason for me to want its eradication among our Catholic Goans. Minimally, it is painful to my sensibilities and my sense of Goaness of which I want to be proud, without the odious whiff and taint of caste. Secondly, the tenets of Catholicism are totally different from Hindu caste belief as Jose, George, and others have indicated. One has to be, transparently, one or the other. You simply can't have your cake and eat it Gilbert! If you can, please let me know your logic or secret in this respect! And now to your request for "cause and effect." My brief is clearly not to educate you on research methods and methodology pertaining to sensitive social problems but you give me no choice but to have to spell out, at least some detail, whilst desperately trying not to be condescending. Cause and effect criteria stem from the positivistic realm of scientific research and have served many forms of research very well e.g. causality in disease, within the dynamics of astrophysics, the basis of metallurgy and many others. We have benefited immensely through such research methods, even though there is never any absolute certainty when we use any scientific methods. Nevertheless, we need to support such scientific usage, where appropriate, whilst being aware of the strengths and weaknesses within such methodology particularly over experimentation and ethical issues. However, the paradigm underpinning the above is problematic in social research where so many problems continue to exist and are not amenable to cause and effect criteria. Alternative research paradigms have been used in parallel with the more narrowly scientific one relying on cause and effect criteria. These are non-positivistic. They are interpretive and illuminative of experiential meaning and understanding of phenomena in everyday life. These explore and examine complex human behaviour by examining many subjectivities and then objectifying them as rigorously as possible. Indeed, I do not see these alternative paradigms as contradictory to each other but as part of a continuum to help us understand the incredible complexity of the physical and social world we live in. I am thoroughly familiar with and used the 'number crunching' methods for hypothesis testing, replication and the generation of statistical analyses in a range of fields. However, by and large, these are not adequate for complex social research. Themes like racism, casteism, dowry deaths, football hooliganism, religious fundamentalism, micro cultures in bureaucracies and in custodial institutions, cults and the like, are definitely better studied sometimes through covert entry/penetration into organisations within ethical limits, and through observation, participant-observation, in-depth open-ended interviews, and conversational interviews. All require much skill and rigour in execution and use. They fall within the anthropological tradition incorporating ethnographic work/principles. I became engaged in gathering data on caste among Catholic Goans when I discovered, to my absolute horror, how bad it was i
[Goanet]Catholic Goans and Caste
Cecil, In all my many posts on the topic of Catholic Goans and caste, you will find that, it is very unlikely I personally used the term Brahmins upon whom to focus. I always used, in my preferred terminogy, the term-- the "casteists." This is because I am entirely aware that casteism is many layered and it would be entirely wrong and uninformed to focus only on any one named group e.g. the Brahmins. However, when quoting the excerpts collected, the word Brahmin, several times, and Chardo once, inevitably crept in because, for reasons of authenticity, the data had to be presented, as given to me by the informants. I was quite aware of a potential problem here but I hope you can see that I am quite clear that casteism, in its many guises, is my central concern and not a specific group or groups. Cornel
[Goanet]Catholic Goans and caste
Basilio, Many thanks for the clarification you provided. I will immediately accept, from you, that you cannot be rightly placed with Gilbert Lawrence as defending the indefensible on caste. However, I must say that your preference for dealing with caste among the Catholic Goans is intriguing to me. I sincerely hope it is one workable technique/strategy among others. Regards, Cornel
[Goanet]Catholic wedding: a sacrament
## # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # Want to check the archives? http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/# # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## Dear Chris Hughes I am surprised with the situation you describe and with your doubts. The Portuguese juridical system (still valid in Goa) always permitted a civil registration before Church wedding. Alternatively, it recognized as legal the marriage celebrated in the Church. The Parish authorities would send a copy of the wedding registration to civil registrar. Are you a Catholic? If you are, then youn should know about the difference that the Catholic Church makes between the marriage of non-Christians and the Christian marriage. The Christian marriage is regarded as "sacrament", while the non-Christian marriage is not. This point is debatable and some Catholic theologians do not like the distinction, but it is still held. It is based on this doctrine that the Catholic Church does not permit divorce as the civil law may do. What the Church permits in some situations is separation, or in cases where it is discovered that there were grave impediments prior to marriage, it declares that there never was a valid marriage! Hence, your civil marriage is valid, but for the Catholic Church it will become a sacrament only when you celebrate it in the Church, with a priest as "witness". TRS From: Chris Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Goanet]Australian/Goan Catholic wedding questions Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Dear folks, I am an Australian man, happily engaged to a Goan woman, both living in Australia. We plan to marry next year in Goa. My fiancee wants to get married in Australia this year, in a registry office, and then have our proper church wedding in Goa next year. As far as she is concerned, the registry office marriage means nothing, and we won't be married in the eyes of God until our church wedding, but it will simplify the legal aspects of planning a wedding in Goa. Although the registry office marriage might mean nothing to her, in Australia (and all other places that I know of) the church recognises this marriage, and so in the eyes of God we are already married (and cannot subsequently get married in a church - except for just a renewal of vows). So I don't understand how we could get married again in Goa, and it mean anything. She tells me that she knows many people who have done this, but it doesn't make sense to me. My mother has made some enquiries through my local parish, and I believe that her enquiry made it to the bishop of Goa who clearly said that one cannot marry twice, even if the first is in a legal office and not a church. I don't want to do deceive the church or the law. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Kind regards, C http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/1503/teo_publ.html AVISO Esta mensagem (incluindo quaisquer anexos) pode conter informação confidencial para uso exclusivo do destinatário. Se não for o destinatário pretendido, não deverá usar, distribuir ou copiar este e-mail.Se recebeu esta mensagem por engano, por favor informe o emissor e elimine-o imediatamente. Obrigado. DISCLAIMER This e-mail (including any attachments) may contain confidential information for exclusive use of its recipient.If you are not the intended recipient you must not use, distribute or copy this e-mail. If you have received this e-mail in error please notify the sender and delete it immediately. Thank you
[Goanet]Catholic Shrine Desecrated in India
Catholic Shrine Desecrated in India JABALPUR, India, JUNE 14, 2005 (Zenit.org).- Bishop Gerald Almeida of the Jabalpur Diocese denounced the "act of cowardly violence" perpetrated against the Christian community with the desecration of the shrine of the Infant Jesus. Sunday, "around midnight, a bunch of miscreants entered the shrine of the Infant Jesus, which is inside the compound of the Holy Trinity Church, and desecrated it," the prelate said in statements to AsiaNews.it. "Except for a few incidents, the fundamentalists had spared the area," he explained. The group of attackers, mostly young men, threw rotten eggs and blue-colored water against the shrine, located in the state of Madhya Pradesh. "When the guard saw them, they fled," said the bishop. So far, no one has been arrested. The incident comes at a time when Christians are increasingly concerned about the sectarian violence directed at them in states run by the Hindu fundamentalist Bharatiya Janata Party, such as Madhya Pradesh, Gujarat, Orissa, Uttar Pradesh and Punjab. Bishop Almeida said that his response to this violence will be chain-fasting throughout the Jabalpur Diocese. He said: "We shall pray that God may transform the minds and hearts of these people who are attacking Christians."
[Goanet] Catholic Priest makes Bollywood Film
'Aisa Kyon Hota Hai' is entertainment with a message By Vishal Arora Tuesday, 07 February , 2006 Aisa Kyon Hota Hai? is a purely Bollywood film thought out, conceived and executed by a Catholic priest. For the first time in the history, the Catholic Church in India has joined hands with Bollywood to make a feature film. The film, the brainchild of Dr Dominic Emmanuel SVD and presented by Bollywood film-maker Mahesh Bhatt, highlights the role of love, loyalty and commitment in relationships. Directed by former UNICEF officer Ajay Kanchan, the film carries a message on two crucial issues facing the country: HIV/AIDS and communalism. The film will hit the cinema halls on February 17. Set in the college campus, the story revolves around a single mother Kiran (Rati Agnihotri) and her son Raj (Aryan Vaid). Though Kiran brings up Raj with a lot of affection, he grows up with no respect for emotional relationships. It’s not love, but lust that is the reality of his life. Every now and then he is also haunted by the thought that he is an illegitimate child. He wants to achieve success and fame so that he can gain legitimacy and get people to respect his mother. Sify spoke to Emmanuel, national president of the Signis India (Catholic Association for Radio, Television & Cinema) and spokesman for the Delhi Catholic Archdiocese, on the Church joining hands with Bollywood. Emmanuel holds a PhD in communication from the UK. Currently he hosts a weekly television programme called the Voice of Christianity, which is aired on Jain TV every Sunday. He has also made two tele-films that were aired on Doordarshan and Zee TV. Excerpts: How did you get the idea of making a Bollywood film? The original idea was to make a tele-serial on inter-religious harmony, which still remains the main theme of the film. I have been writing on the theme, and recently finished a series of books on value education for school children where the idea is emphasised. I have also broadcast on radio on this theme earlier. But since there were no takers for such a TV serial, we thought of making a film. I must, however, hasten to add that at that time I never thought that the film would take such a shape and turn out to be an all out Bollywood film. Can we call your endeavor an “unholy alliance for a holy purpose”? I don't think that it has anything to do with being "unholy". It is all about using a medium, which is not only the most popular in India, but also available to everyone. The question is how one uses the medium. Any medium can be used for a good purpose or a bad one. A knife in the hands of a doctor can remove a tumour and in the hands of an assailant can kill someone. It depends on who uses the medium and for what purpose. Why did you choose issues like HIV/AIDS and communalism out the numerous issues facing our country? I have been working on inter-religious harmony and understanding it for the past 25 years. I did two weekly radio talks on Radio Veritas Asia for five years, from 1988 to1993. I then did a Ph D from London on communication as dialogue. So inter-religious harmony, due to the lack of which communalism breaks out, was the most natural of choices. And since the curse of HIV/AIDS is growing everyday, threatening to wipe out all the progress the country is making, and taking the lives of so many, especially the young ones, it was important to include it as well. Do you think issues like HIV/AIDS and communalism will sell in our country? Our purpose in making the film is not to make profit. But it has five songs and all the Bollywood ingredients of entertainment, including a mild item number with wonderful music, which was released by Times Music on January 2. If we can combine education with entertainment and call it edutainment, that would be a great achievement. And when you go to see the film, you will find out that we have hit on a very successful formula. What is the USP of your film? Entertainment with a message. Enhancing the risk perception of young people about their vulnerability, and encouraging them to delay their sexual debut; safe sexual practices and stress on formation of long-term loyal and faithful relationships with their partners. And becoming aware of the prejudices against people of other religions, which give rise to communal violence and bloodshed. How is the Ca
[Goanet]Catholic Archbishop kidnapped in Iraq
This is a most unfortunate development, hope he is released safely soon, see story at http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=2&u=/ap/20050117/ap_on_re_mi_ea/vatican_iraq_kidnapping With the Iraq "elections" approaching, the situation seems to be going downhill. Regards, George
Re: [Goanet]Catholic Goans and caste
cornel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Basilio, > Many thanks for the clarification you provided. I will immediately accept, from you, that you cannot be rightly placed with Gilbert Lawrence as defending the indefensible on caste. However, I must say that your preference for dealing with caste among the Catholic Goans is intriguing to me. I sincerely hope it is one workable technique/strategy among others. Mario adds: I, too, appreciate Basilio's clarification that he opposes casteism unequivocally, but I am not as sanguine as Cornel in how Basilio proposes to deal with it, with all due respect. I would like to see a far more proactive and aggressive approach to confronting Catholic casteism, especially from those who have a pulpit from which to preach and a position of respect and leadership within the Church. Benign approaches to such abusive practices is what gives it's proponents an excuse to continue the practice.
RE: [Goanet] Catholic wedding: a sacrament
## # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # Want to check the archives? http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/# # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## Teotonio, Just curious to know whether Catholic Church Wedding could be performed just as a Church service (just taking vows) by a Catholic priest without the nuptial Mass? Cip Fernandes UK -Original Message- Teotonio R. de Souza wrote on 02 October 2004 07:43 Dear Chris Hughes I am surprised with the situation you describe and with your doubts. The Portuguese juridical system (still valid in Goa) always permitted a civil registration before Church wedding. Alternatively, it recognized as legal the marriage celebrated in the Church. The Parish authorities would send a copy of the wedding registration to civil registrar. Are you a Catholic? If you are, then youn should know about the difference that the Catholic Church makes between the marriage of non-Christians and the Christian marriage. The Christian marriage is regarded as "sacrament", while the non-Christian marriage is not. This point is debatable and some Catholic theologians do not like the distinction, but it is still held. It is based on this doctrine that the Catholic Church does not permit divorce as the civil law may do. What the Church permits in some situations is separation, or in cases where it is discovered that there were grave impediments prior to marriage, it declares that there never was a valid marriage! Hence, your civil marriage is valid, but for the Catholic Church it will become a sacrament only when you celebrate it in the Church, with a priest as "witness". TRS
[Goanet] Catholic Priest found murdered in Goa
-- Forwarded message -- From: Anthony Vaz Date: Mar 18, 2006 2:22 PM People of Macasana, a village in South Goa, who went to the church for the daily morning mass on Saturday were in for a shock. As the congregation was waiting for the parish priest to enter the church for the 6.30 am mass, they found that neither the priest nor the sacristan were down from their residence. A panicky crowd gather outside the residence of the priest, Fr. Eusebio Ferrao and some ventured to the first floor parapet of the priest residence. On breaking a window pane they saw the priest lying on the floor. The sacristan cum cook of the priest was locked in an adjacent room. As per the information available, it seems that two youth from UP who were apparently known to the priest had visited the priest late on Friday night. They had come by the last bus at around 9.00 p.m. and the priest was apparently aware that they will be visiting him. They had dinner together and had gone to sleep. Some time during the middle of night they went into the priest's cabin and smothered him with a pillow and vanished from the premises after locking the priest's residence door from outside. Fr. Ferrao was a well known Konkanni writer and used to write regularly on Gulab Magazine and Vaurreadeancho Ixtt Weekly. In the latest issue of Vaurreadeancho Ixtt he had written an article on the Sanvordem Communal riots. Just a few days after the desecration of a cross at Comba in Margao this is another event which has shocked the Catholic community in Goa. Police Investigations are going on. Anthony Vaz from Macasana, Goa Read all Goanet messages at: http://www.goanet.org/archive.php?name=News&list=goanet
[Goanet] Catholic saints, conspiracy theorists and cynics
I may be instructive for the atheist conspiracy theorists and other cynics to know that the Catholic Church has often changed it's mind on the issue of saints based on new evidence. In addition to Christopher, who lost his lofty position on billions of necklaces around the world when he was found to be a myth, Philomena was another saint who was "de-certified" about 30 years ago, I believe by Pope John XXIII, to the chagrin of her many ardent fans.
[Goanet]Catholic criticism of SFX on HindUnity.org ?
On Wed, 26 Nov 2003 16:47:13 +0530, Miguel Braganza wrote: Satan quoting scriptures and the following text, forwarded from a Hindu website, have some similarities. Imagine a former English lecturer from St.Xavier's College in Mapusa,Ms Anne Menezes[ex-Sarpanch of Aldona] being quoted to deride SFX at a time when the novenas preceding the feast are in progress! Is this revisionist history that we will soon find in our text books..in Konkani ?? Is our very own amcho Goemcho Saib going to be reduced 'supremacist' a 'gora' Sahib? SFX won't give a damn to that. We ,the living, have to wake up to the harsh realities. Marlon Menezes has another --down-to-business---view about it. Viva Goa. Miguel original message... > From: "Valmiki Faleiro" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2003 22:42:53 +0530 > Subject: [Goanet]St. Francis Xavier & Goa Inquisition > > Subject: FACTS ABOUT ST. FRANCIS XAVIER & GOA INQUISITION > Prof.Anne Menezes writes > "...Similarly, when Xavier moved further South, he organized the Paravas of > the Fishery Coast who were pearl divers. A shortage of priests and > catechists reduced their instruction in the Faith almost to nil, and hence > they were just nominal Christians.." Happy Thanksgiving to our US-based Goanetters ! ## # Send submissions for Goanet to [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # PLEASE remember to stay on-topic (related to Goa), and avoid top-posts # # More details on Goanet at http://joingoanet.shorturl.com/ # # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ##
[Goanet]Catholic and ''non-twice-born'' Hindus
Hi Antonio and Cornell: Your posts on the Goan Catholics raise interesting issues - which ever way one may slice it! Cornell's strong condemnation of Goans showing off their caste may really reflect UK Goans (and other UK-Indians) just 'showing off' (in Goa). In UK, they cannot show off their Imperial pounds and their Ingresi. But, they 'still show off' (presumably their caste) till they meet Cornell. :=)) Hope this peculiarity is drawn when you post your article about Goan caste distinctions in the UK. So to begin with, do Goans from UK behave like the English-babu ani Vodlo Badkar or do they behave like Samko Goenkars? As you write your essay (which I am most interested), I hope you draw the distinction of past caste attitudes, which though despicable was a SURROGATE for education, affluence, culture, civility etc. Today unfortunately caste is used as a SUBSTITUTE for the above. As was very well put, when one does not have anything to flaunt, one shows off their caste (or their British passport). In all seriousness please connect me to some plain fun-loving, down-to-earth, unassuming Goans, residing in UK. Especially those that left Goa in the 1920s to 1950s! Y'know, I'm just a beer drinking, Feni loving Goenkar and prefer either of them to scotch! OK! Gabe Menezes is an exception! :=)) The above may be a bit of stretch. But it's not far from the generalizations you make about caste attitudes among today's Goans. Regards Cornel: To the effect Many Goans I've met (presumably in England) show off their caste (ad nauseaum) Antonio Menezes: ''non twice-born'' to describe this overwhelming majority of social class before their conversion to Christianity.
[Goanet]Catholic and ''non-twice-born'' Hindus
GL responds: Muito Ben! Absolutely right my friends! Cent per cent correct murre. The academics discuss the past. But when we DISCUSS THE PRESENT, we should draw the distinction between CASTE and CLASS which was eluded in my original post. (Kindly read it again). So for the present, the question is: Do the Johnny-come-lately who 'show off', do they know the distinction? :=)) When we write about them, we should distinguish between those who have one, the other, neither or both attitudes. So while one may want to rein in bad tendencies of a community, is it fair to slam the community for the deficiencies of a few? Would it not be better to identify the causes for the (mis)behavior pattern of a segment of the community and perhaps have a more targeted approach? Regards Jose Colaco: There is this unwitting or perhaps convenient switch that some make between "Caste" and "Class". Never mind what the "explanationists" saythere is a difference between Caste and Class. For instance - a Kunbi can become a teacher or lawyer or whatever, and move up in the Class structurebut will NEVER move up the "Caste" structure. Not in this life NOT after a zillion "rebirths" - whatever that means. Don't know why Anybody would try to fuse (rather confuse) the two. Why not just accept the fact that the wretched Caste System is the original Apartheid, accept the errors of our Hindu forebears (as also those allegedly Catholic forbears of ours who practiced it), change our behavior pattern by refusing to follow this Racist nonsense anymore, and move on? Cornel: I regret have fallen behind on keeping track of Goanet posts. However, I am sure others will have noted that we are discussing CASTE and not Class as per your post. There is a significant difference between the two. Regards,
[Goanet]Catholic theologian dies, once based in India
See http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050101/ap_on_re_eu/obit_dupuis "The Rev. Jacques Dupuis, a Belgian theologian whose book on religious plurality exploring salvation through non-Christian faiths was attacked by the Vatican, has died in Rome. He was 81. After studying theology at St. Mary's College, in Kurseong, India, he studied Hinduism in Calcutta. For 25 years he taught theology in India, including at St. Mary's. In the 1980s he joined the faculty of the Gregorian and served as a consultant for the Vatican's Pontifical Council for Interreligious Dialogue."
[Goanet] Catholic Youth Survey Reveals Hope, Challenge For Church
Catholic Youth Survey Reveals Hope, Challenge For Church Indian Catholic March 1, 2006 MUMBAI, India (UCAN) - The first nationwide survey of Catholic youths in India indicates that generally they are comfortable with their religion but have not made their faith "their own." The Salesians' Mumbai province interviewed Catholics aged 12-25 across India about their faith and beliefs as part of the congregation's celebration of its 100 years in the country. According to Salesian Father Darryl D'Souza, director of Bosco Information Service in Mumbai, the first survey of its kind "has given a direction to those involved in youth ministry, catechetics and evangelization." Speaking with UCA News in mid-February, Father D'Souza said Catholic dioceses and those involved in youth ministry should decide how they will "counter the shortcomings and maximize the strengths" in youth ministry that the survey has revealed. The Mumbai province began the survey in July 2002 and completed it in April 2005, having contacted 3,609 young Catholics. The findings have been compiled into a book, Lord, I Believe, Increase My Faith: Response of Catholic Youth to Religion, which was unveiled Jan. 5 at a seminar in Bangalore, southern India. According to the findings, 93.4 percent of Catholic youths surveyed feel a sense of belonging to the Church, 82.8 percent pray daily and 29.2 percent go to church every day. While 87.2 percent find catechism classes meaningful, only about half subscribe to the Church's teaching on birth control. General social values appear to have much influence on them on this issue. Salesian Mumbai provincial Father Ivo Coelho told UCA News in mid-February that although he finds "the overall" results consoling, nevertheless, "it appears the youths have not made the Church's doctrines their own." Salesian Father Adolf Furtado, who initiated the empirical research, says the survey prods Church people to look into the life of youths and see how to serve them better. "Our congregation has been working for the youths in particular. But we needed to know their spiritual values," the priest commented. "The survey will lead to further questions and study," he added. The survey team consisted of Salesian Father Cyril de Souza, lay theologian Josantony Joseph and social activist Johny Joseph, who said that while Catholic youths are not facing a "crisis of belief," they might be heading toward a "crisis of faith." The survey differentiates between belief, which it defines as intellectual assent to Church dogmas, and faith as confessing to certain beliefs. "This confession would hopefully though not necessarily lead to a deep confidence or trust in God," the authors say in the fourth chapter of the book. The team studied the youths' understanding of and approach to the Bible, belief in God, Christ and Mary, and what these relationships mean to the young people. The target group was also questioned about their sense of Church belonging, their understanding and practice of prayer and liturgy, their understanding of justice and integrity, and other social and personal core values. Team leader Father de Souza told UCA News Feb. 27 that the absence of "a deeply acquired and personally reflected faith" among the Catholic youth in India causes concern. According to him, these young people might become as religiously apathetic as "European Catholic youths are today." Josantony Joseph observed that the Catholic teaching of religion "apparently focuses far more on the vertical dimension than on the horizontal." While the vertical stresses an individual's personal relationship with God, the horizontal measures how one relates to the community. Johny Joseph also said the Church helps people relate to God, but ignores how they relate to one other in the community. The Church has to go "a little beyond" teaching people to pray, he added. "The study shows that the youths believe without any critical thinking. For example, they would like to imitate Mother Mary. But they still think that men should have an upper hand in most matters," he elaborated. The study reveals that 93.6 percent of youths surveyed said the Blessed Mother plays an important role in their lives, and almost nine out of 10 want to imitate her. But 74.9 percent say it is God's will that men should head the family. "So which Mother Mary do they want to emulate-the subservient Mary or the radical Mary?" Johny Joseph asked. According to Josantony Joseph, religion attracts people now because they have experienced some loss of self-identity as globalization homogenizes cultures. Religion's "specific" rituals, on the other hand, give them a sense of identity. Concern was raised that a shallow faith would not serve the youth well during crises. "Their faith might suffer, resulting in their joining groups that offer them greater levels of internalization and a more vibrant sense of community," Father Coelho said. Similarly, Josantony Joseph said that during "p
[Goanet] 'Catholic Educational Institutions Must Become Agents Of Social Change'
-- | Add your name to the CLEAN GOA INITIATIVE | || | by visiting this link and following the instructions therein | || | http://shire.symonds.net/pipermail/goanet/2005-October/033926.html | -- 'Catholic Educational Institutions Must Become Agents Of Social Change' By SAR NEWS GUWAHATI, Assam (SAR NEWS) -- A three-day regional seminar on education for social change underlined the need for Catholic schools and colleges to become agents of social change, advocacy, public relations and media. Over 100 heads of educational institutions from the seven states of Northeast India attended the November 3-5, seminar organised by Don Bosco Institute, Guwahati. Founder of National Open Schools, Jesuit Father Tom Kunnunkal, urged educators to contribute to create an inclusive Indian society and to empower the poor and marglinalised. A school can claim excellence only when it has made measurable contribution to transform both self and society. Archbishop Thomas Menamparampil of Guwahati stressed the need for educators to be inserted in society, to be knowledgeable and to think with the students. National Integration Council member and journalist John Dayal said unless there was unity of intent and action in the Church among the various agencies, the Church will never be able to make an impact, much less intervene, in national policy formulations and planning, finance and resource allocation, and long-term strategies for India as a whole. Salesian Father Jerry Thomas, Director, Northeastern Youth Catholic Youth Commission, called for a rethinking of our education strategy and invest resources and personnel in teacher training, student programmes, working with parents, lobbying with governments, bringing teachers, students and the community together on issues of common concern. Director of Northeast Social Research Centre, Jesuit Father Walter Fernandez, analysed some of the issues relating to education for social change such as education steeped in individual values and commercial interests, and a curriculum that is not region-specific. Education, he pointed out, must address issues like conflict resolution and peace education, economic solutions like resource management and employment. Several speakers underlined the importance of making education a tool for effective social change and for institutions to network for advocacy, peace and value education. Catholic Bishops’ Council India spokesperson Father Babu Joseph said our educational institutions must promote justice and equality in India and must produce citizens who are socially committed, rooted in values of secularism, democracy, and capable of reforming society.
[Goanet] Catholic Union seeks security, economic development for Christians in India
ALL INDIA CATHOLIC UNION Hyderabad Meeting of Catholic Union Working committee demands security, economic development for Christians in India Press Statement Hyderabad, 8 May 2006 The All India Catholic Union has demanded that Central and State governments in India take urgent and effective steps to ensure the security of the Christian community, its churches and religious personnel, and to ensure full opportunities for its economic and social development, especially among the Dalit, rural and tribal areas. The Catholic Union's working committee in its two day session in Hyderabad noted with great anxiety the rapid erosion in security of the community during 2005 and 2006, after a brief interval of peace and tranquility when the Congress-led UPA replaced the NDA government of the BJP in 2004. Dr John Dayal, Catholic Union President and Member of the Government of India's National integration Council, presided over the Working committee meeting. The meeting was hosted by the Catholic Association of Hyderabad led by its president Mr. Martin and AICU State president Advocate James Sylvester. In its final statement, the AICU working committee noted that the situation had reached alarming proportions in states ruled by the BJP and its allies, especially Rajasthan, Gujarat, Orissa, Chhattisgarh and Madhya Pradesh. Even other states such as Madhya Pradesh, Karnataka and even Andhra were not free of some violence. In Rajasthan and Gujarat particularly, the Catholic Union told Prime Minister Manmohan Singh in a letter, it seemed that the state government was functioning on laws that had nothing to do with the Constitution of India. Even the police and the lower judiciary were playing to the tune of the BJP masters in Jaipur and Gandhinagar. The Union said the Central government can, if it so wants, ensure that errant States do not enforce bigoted regulations or discriminate on grounds of religion as if they were not bound by the niceties of the country's historic secular ethos and its international commitments. A decline in the sense of confidence and security of weak religious and other minorities does take away from what an 8 or 10 per cent annual economic growth seeks to build. The Catholic Union decided to join other Christian apex organisations in challenging in the courts the so called Freedom of Religion bill which had been passed in unholy haste by the Rajasthan government in a single-minded pursuit of a communal agenda. The banning of books by Rajasthan and the full participation of the police in prosecuting people on concocted charges seemed as the state now had a "religious police" on the lines of the religious totalitarian regimes. The Union also noted with alarm the naked display of armed might by the RSS in Jhansi in Uttar Pradesh even as people in many parts were participating in democratic elections to State assemblies, has traumatised minorities far and away. The entire nation saw on live Television the private army of the RSS boastfully marches through the city with guns in their hands - many of them modern weapons and some muskets which exist in large numbers in both rural and urban India. The commanders of this private army left no one in any doubt why they had graduated from the wooden lathis or staves on to modern automatic weapons. Equally bizarre and violent in impact, though differently, was the Gujarat government's annexation of the Leprosarium in Ahmadabad, the sacking of the half a dozen Catholic Religious Sisters, or Nuns, who were in charge, and their final ejection from the Ave Maria Convent in the institute which had been their home for Sixty years. The Union urged the Prime Minister that "the time has come for a serious look at this pattern of hate against Christians. This is not the average communal riot or victimization which sporadically bursts out, and then dies out. This is a sustained terror campaign against our community, even if each incident is separated from the next in space and time." The working committee made the following demands from the Union government, the government of Andhra Pradesh and some other state governments towards the security and welfare of the community 1. The Union Government must consider comprehensive political and administrative measures under the Constitution that send out the correct signals to the guilty, and extend assurances to the victims. The Supreme Court also has a role in it and can direct states to take appropriate action. 2. Government must help expedite the Justice Misra Commission report on Christians of SC origin so that the issue can be brought to a conclusion also in the Supreme Court. The case could not be taken up on the last due date of 5 April. The Union condemns attempts by the lobby of senior bureaucrats to delay the report. 3. The AICU urges the Planning Commission, the new ministry for Minority Affairs end other departments to ensure equitable devolution of funds and opportunities to Christians, specially to
[Goanet]Catholic Pilgrims From All Over India Flock To Goa To Venerate Saint Xavier
## # Goanetters-2004 meet in Goa. Dec 21, Tuesday. 12 noon to 2 pm. # # Clube Vasco, Near Municipal Garden, Panjim. Pass the word around! # ## Catholic Pilgrims From All Over India Flock To Goa To Venerate Saint Xavier OLD GOA, Goa (SAR NEWS) -- Four and a half centuries after this Spanish missionary's death, the sacred relics of Saint Francis Xavier still continue to draw hundreds of pilgrims from all corners of India. The ongoing 43-day Sixteenth exposition at Old Goa, once the centre of Portuguese rule, will continue till January 2. Drawing some 10,000 visitors daily, the organisers say the exposition is expected to attract over 3 million pilgrims. The body of Saint Xavier, who died in 1552, remained miraculously intact for centuries, drawing thousands of people of all faiths. However, the body began to deteriorate in recent decades and the Catholic Church is now referring to the mortal remains of the saint as a relic. "I could not afford to miss the Exposition," 57-year-old D. Iruthayaraj from Mahim, Mumbai, who is in Goa to pay respects to St. Xavier, told SAR News. Although Iruthayaraj has been witness to the previous two Expositions held in 1984 an 1994, he said he was not sure whether he would ever see it again. "I can never forget the faith experience I have got here and that is why I wish more people see St. Xavier's relics and share the same faith experience," Iruthayaraj, who led a group of 96 people from Mahim to Goa, told SAR News. "I feel accomplished as my long-felt desire has been fulfilled," 53-year-old S.M. Sironmai from Tamil Nadu told SAR News. Sironmai said when Saint Francis Xavier had passed through Tamil Nadu he had stayed in a cave in his village in Manappadu in Tuticorin diocese because of which the villagers call themselves "Xavier Christians". He further said many pilgrims come to this village to pray at the cave and drink from a nearby spring from where the saint is believed to have drank water. "Since my childhood I have been aching to come to Goa to see his body and now I want to bring my family to see the relices of Saint Xavier," said Siromani, who is the Deputy Establishment Officer at the Bhabha Atomic Reseach Centre in Mumbai. "I can say for sure that the people were touched after seeing the relics of Saint Xavier," Father John Zacharias from the Diocese of Tanjore in Tamil Nadu told SAR News. Presently the chaplain for Tamils in Mumbai, Father Zacharias, who accompanied a group of people on their pilgrimage to Goa, said most of the people from his group simply believed and had no questions whatsoever. He further said that although some people, especially the younger generation did try to analyse and question the state of the relic, everyone accepted the phenomenon as a miracle. Fr. Shoury Prabhakar, 31, from the Diocese of Hyderabad is the Assitant Parish Priest in Irla Parish of Mumbai. "Shoury" means Xavier in Telugu language, explained Father Prabhakar, who said that he was born after his parents visited and prayed at the Francis Xavier Church in Hyderabad and he was thus named after the saint. "I always had the desire to visit Goa, to see and pray at the relilcs of St. Francis Xavier. And now I am very happy after having seen the relics," Father Shoury told SAR NEWS. Unlike most people who know Goa more as India's hottest tourist destination, the simple tribal people who came from a village called Dapadda in Nagar Haveli, associated Goa with Saint Xavier. Speaking on behalf of the people, Father Agnelo Rodrigues who brought this group of 60 people, said the people were simply filled with awe seeing the holy relics. "These are Christians from the tribe of Konknnas and Warlis and have come to Goa for the first time, but they were hardly interested to see Goa as much as they were interested in seeing St. Xavier's relics," said Father Rodrigues, who celebrated a special Mass for them at the Basilica of Bom Jesus. Fifty-year-old Francis Malik from Amristar, Punjab, was disappointed when he was unable to see the body of Saint Xavier from close quarters a couple of years ago. "The day I came to know about the news of the Exposition early this year, I decided to visit Old Goa with wife and seven children," Francis told SAR News.
