Re:[Goanet] Indonesian Earthquake
--- Mario Goveia <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > It looks like we have unleashed another earthquake of > seething wrath from Santosh, and will now be inundated > by the resulting tsunami of carefully selected > left-wing propaganda. He gives his own obvious bias > away when he starts with an attack on the ownership > and political bent of a newspaper, rather than deal > just with the issues. Er...in case you missed it, his post dealt with the issues. On one hand, Santosh provides details of scientific studies challenging your assertions, while you resort to several paragraphs of name calling that does nothing to dispute the points raised in the studies. -Tariq __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re:[Goanet] Indonesian Earthquake
--- Mario Goveia <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >The wrath of a woman scorned is only exceeded by the >wrath of a committed left-wing propagandist >confronted with the possibility that global warming >may be modest, > As stated earlier, I will not address the irrelevant personal insults directed at me by the above netter, other than to mention that these thoughtless remarks and the sexist/misogynic statement made above, once again, reinforces my contention, and that of many of the other netters in this forum, that this man does not care about real facts or science. He has nothing but contemptuous disregard for objective scientific facts and rational conclusions derived from genuine scholarly articles, if they do not conform to his ideology. > >that warming and cooling has happened before >prior to the industrial revolution, and the causes >of global warming may have little to do with human >endeavor and a lot to do with natural causes little >affected by man. > Those who read my last post would realize that the above quote, in particular, directly contradicts the fact-based objective conclusions arrived at in the latest published papers from peer-reviewed mainstream scientific journals such as Reviews of Geophysics and SCIENCE, and the public information resources provided by the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, one of the world's most prestigious bodies dealing with the issue of climate change. It should be clear to all reasonable people who have read my last post on this subject that the above-referenced post fails to address, let alone refute, any of the scientific issues raised by me. Cheers, Santosh
Re:[Goanet] Indonesian Earthquake
It looks like we have unleashed another earthquake of seething wrath from Santosh, and will now be inundated by the resulting tsunami of carefully selected left-wing propaganda. He gives his own obvious bias away when he starts with an attack on the ownership and political bent of a newspaper, rather than deal just with the issues. The wrath of a woman scorned is only exceeded by the wrath of a committed left-wing propagandist confronted with the possibility that global warming may be modest, that warming and cooling has happened before prior to the industrial revolution, and the causes of global warming may have little to do with human endeavor and a lot to do with natural causes little affected by man. Frozen Siberia was once covered by forests. Lush North America was once covered with a sheet of ice, all before the first automobile was invented. How do we deal with just Mount St. Helens, now belching several years worth of man-made greenhouse gases into the atmosphere ever day. Try putting a cork on that one small natural cause! Or the gases produced by rotting vegetation worldwide or the effects from evaporation from all bodies of water. This is a far more complex and controversial issue than the absolute, left-wing version, their absolute solutions and the politically motivated exemptions in their treaties for India and China, two large and fast growing economies with little or no environmental controls. Since failing to use socialism and communism to bring the world down to the lowest common denominator, the left-wing has decided to try and achieve the same ends through the only remaining option available to them, the environment. The attempt will fail just as surely as the previous one did.
Re:[Goanet] Indonesian Earthquake
Mario Goveia <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I had chided Tim of making a facetious comment while > operating on feni fumes, which Santosh pounced upon > as a gratuitious "personal insult". I would be > rich, > not insulted, if I was paid a $1 everytime someone > accused me of drinking our special nationsl adult > beverage. Mario, Can you send me your address so that I can send you my contribution of $100? Mervyn __ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca
Re:[Goanet] Indonesian Earthquake
--- Santosh Helekar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >In my next post on this thread I will demonstrate to >you why the article on Global Warming that was posted >by this man in his last post was a striking example >of vicious right-wing propaganda, and why I think his >and that articles main intention was to suggest that >global warming was entirely or primarily a natural >occurrence, devoid of any human involvement. > As promised in my previous post (quoted above) in this thread, I would like to tell you here why the article mentioned in the following quote, posted in this thread by another Goanetter is a striking example of vicious right-wing propaganda: "Tim, put down the feni bottle, and read the following article that appeared in the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review on December 27, 2004. I would like you to focus on paragraphs 7 and 8 in the article. Maybe you will learn something. Global warming: The new religion Monday, December 27, 2004" As I have said before Global Warming is a scientific problem. However, especially in America, it has become a political issue. Editorials and opinion editorials fly left and right in newspapers and news magazines, written by editors and columnists who themselves know very little of science, and whose interest in science is limited to using it to score political points. It is very easy to do this because they can selectively quote from casual remarks made by career scientists, or from opinions, stated for public consumption, of one or two mainstream scientists who dispute some of the conclusions of a consensus position based on technical, often genuine but contentious, grounds. They can also selectively quote from scientific studies (or from lay distorted accounts on them) whose conclusions have become obsolete due to subsequent more refined measurements and interpretations. A non-scientist does not usually appreciate very well the fact that science is a progressive enterprise, with an evolving consensus on many issues at its cutting edge. Selective use of information to support ones position, and contemptuous disregard for rational counterarguments, and even empirical counter-evidence, is the mainstay of politics, opinion journalism and law. Science, on the other hand, is largely a dispassionate endeavor where objectivity is critical to acceptance of new knowledge and its publication in mainstream scientific journals. Objectivity in science is maintained by two important self-correcting mechanisms, namely peer-review and reproducibility. I have written quite a lot about these mechanisms in this forum over the years, so I will not repeat it here. The above two paragraphs should provide you some background to understand why the Global Warming article under question is a striking example of vicious right-wing propaganda. That article is an opinion editorial in one of the most conservative newspapers in America, the Pittsburgh Tribune Review, owned by the eccentric right-wing billionaire Richard Mellon-Scaife. It is not an objective popular review on Global Warming in a popular science or educational magazine, such as National Geographic, meant to inform the lay public. No responsible person without a political agenda would ever recommend anybody in a general public forum any editorial of Pittsburgh Tribune Review to "may be learn something" about Global Warming. The right-wing political position on Global Warming in America is either that it is not occurring at all at present or that it is completely or primarily a natural phenomenon i. e. human activities involving emission of carbon dioxide and greenhouse gases from burning of fossil fuels have nothing to do with it. The writer(s) of the said editorial perhaps concede that global warming is occurring at present, but clearly want to peddle their other political view that it is not something unnatural. Indeed, this is exactly what the poster of that editorial in this forum, hinted in the following quote, before recommending it to another netter so that "maybe he will learn something": "Tim de Mello, who operates on feni fumes and would like to believe that global warming is something unnatural" The poster recommended the following two paragraphs, in particular, from the said editorial to maybe expand the knowledge of Tim de Mello: "The Earth warmed in the Middle Ages, up to a peak around 1300 when it was perhaps 2 degrees warmer than now, whereupon the Little Ice Age ensued until about 1900." "We'd like to have that explained in the context of "man-made global warming."" The truth is that the above two paragraphs refer to outdated findings and interpretations about the time course of global temperature change in the last two millennia. A long and detailed scientific paper published recently in a mainstream peer-reviewed scientific journal by two expert climatologists has concluded that the evidence for the warming of the Earth during the Middle Ages, otherwise known as the Medieval Warm Period (MWP), as we
Re:[Goanet] Indonesian Earthquake
Once again, Santosh Helekar goes through his typical verbal attack, without addressing the three points made by me: 1. Santosh's total inability to distinguish levity and irony from serious comments. 2. His relentless attack mode against anyone who has the temerity to disagree with him, launching immediately into rude, hostile and intemperate language. Here is a recent example, "The above post, besides containing gratuitous insults against Tim de Mello, propagates "politically motivated nonsense" regarding global warming. The article contained in it is a striking example of "vicious right-wing propaganda". I had chided Tim of making a facetious comment while operating on feni fumes, which Santosh pounced upon as a gratuitious "personal insult". I would be rich, not insulted, if I was paid a $1 everytime someone accused me of drinking our special nationsl adult beverage. 3. No one is disputing that global warming is occurring, so I hope Santosh will keep this in mind as he drowns us in his left-wing propaganda as he is threatening to do. I hope Santosh will try to explain why global warming and cooling occurred before the industrial revolution began. But I'm not holding my breath.
Re:[Goanet] Indonesian Earthquake
--- Mario Goveia <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >Santosh Helekar continues to insist that he does not >"demonize" anyone, relying on dictionary definitions >to make his point. > > >In spite of the Iraq posts being discontinued, >Santosh Helekar continues his vicious ad hominem >attacks on me personally, this time for comments I >jokingly made to Tim de Mello about operating on feni >fumes. > It is indeed amusing to watch the above poster go through the kind of defensive contortions he has gone through to explain his own behavior in this forum while casting my responses to his behavior in a negative light. He uses, not one, but two posts on two different threads to conduct his acrobatic defense and launch his quixotic counterattack against a perceived attack on himself. He seems to suggest that using the correct dictionary meaning of a word in the English language is somehow unusual or inappropriate. An obvious insult directed at a minimally aquainted opponent in debate is supposed to be a comment made jokingly. An opponent in debate who points out these insults is supposed to be the one who is resorting to ad hominem attacks and lacking in sense of humor. This unrelated issue is somehow supposed to be related to my fixation with the closed discussion on Iraq, and by implication I am supposed to be in violation of that embargo. What can I say? I must marvel at this type of mental gymnastics, and also at the audacity of anyone who accuses others of committing offenses that he himself has committed on a much greater scale. Forgive me for referring to earlier closed discussions, but I must be thankful that at least this time around I was not "jokingly" called a pig or a supporter of Saddam Hussein or of Islamic terrorists, or a member of the anti-liberation gang. Poor Herman has already been "jokingly" called a Dada in response to his very first post in a long while, which had the misfortune of being disagreeable to this poster. I know that there will be many more "joking comments" directed at me from this poster in a repeated series of posts to follow. So henceforth I will ignore them when they are directed at me, but point them out, off and on, when they are directed at others, when I feel the need to respond to the substance of any future posts from this poster. In my next post on this thread I will demonstrate to you why the article on Global Warming that was posted by this man in his last post was a striking example of vicious right-wing propaganda, and why I think his and that articles main intention was to suggest that global warming was entirely or primarily a natural occurrence, devoid of any human involvement. Cheers, Santosh
Re:[Goanet] Indonesian Earthquake
In spite of the Iraq posts being discontinued, Santosh Helekar continues his vicious ad hominem attacks on me personally, this time for comments I jokingly made to Tim de Mello about operating on feni fumes. Tim had facetiously exulted at the prospect of somehow blaming the US for causing the recent tsunami by not signing the Kyoto Treaty. I don't feel insulted if someone "accuses" me of partaking of Goa's national drink from time to time. Tim probably chuckled at my comment, but Santosh seems devoid of any sense of humor or irony: Santosh jumps to Tim's defense: "The above post, besides containing gratuitous insults against Tim de Mello, propagates politically motivated nonsense regarding global warming. The article contained in it is a striking example of vicious right-wing propaganda. Global warming is a scientifically addressable problem, and there is already a scientific consensus on many of its aspects. For example, the following is known to be true with a high level of certainty based on objective evidence:" Santosh then goes on to cite the case for global warming. Of course, Santosh, who I guess fancies himself to be a left-wing propagandist, is so bent on attacking me as a right-wing propagandist that he completely misses my point, which was not that there is no global warming taking place, but that there has been global warming and cooling going on throughout the earth's history, way before the industrial revolution which the environmental zealots blame today. The following three paragraphs from the article I sent for Tim's consideration made that point when it said: "As historical facts, global warming and cooling have occurred. The Earth warmed in the Middle Ages, up to a peak around 1300 when it was perhaps 2 degrees warmer than now, whereupon the Little Ice Age ensued until about 1900. We'd like to have that explained in the context of "man-made global warming."
Re:[Goanet] Indonesian Earthquake
Mario Goveia wrote: > >Tim de Mello, who operates on feni fumes and would >like to believe that global warming is something >unnatural, >. >Global warming: The new religion >Monday, December 27, 2004 > >History says the rise of reason and revulsion stopped >religious witch-burning. Or maybe they just got all >the witches. > The above post, besides containing gratuitous insults against Tim de Mello, propagates politically motivated nonsense regarding global warming. The article contained in it is a striking example of vicious right-wing propaganda. Global warming is a scientifically addressable problem, and there is already a scientific consensus on many of its aspects. For example, the following is known to be true with a high level of certainty based on objective evidence: 1. There has been an increase in atmospheric temperature of 1 degree Fahrenheit over the past 100 years. 2. Human activities are altering the composition of Earth's atmosphere. 3. The increasing buildup of carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases is in large measure due to human activities. 4. The greenhouse effect causes an increase in atmospheric temperature. 5. There has been an increased melting of glaciers, a reduction in the snow cover in the northern hemisphere and an increased warming below ground. In short, global warming is most likely real and is substantially due to human activity. Please refer to the following reputed and scientifically responsible sources for more information. These web resources are provided by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency, the National Academy of Sciences and the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change. http://yosemite.epa.gov/oar/globalwarming.nsf/webprintview/Climate.html http://yosemite.epa.gov/oar/globalwarming.nsf/UniqueKeyLookup/SHSU5BUTQ4/$File/nas_ccsci_01.pdf http://www.grida.no/climate/ipcc_tar/wg1/005.htm Cheers, Santosh
