from:"marshallmendonza"

And this is a party waiting to rule over India and in Goa. Do they deserve to? 
Read on.

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/Opinion/BJPs_political_chicanery_/articleshow/3738737.cms

http://www.pressdisplay.com/pressdisplay/viewer.aspx#

Regards,

Marshall





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[Goanet] Tail wagging the Dog

For the cheerleaders of Manohar Parrikar, who believe in his extraordinary 
abilities to provide clean, peaceful and efficient government without any 
interference from the sangh parivar, here is a case of the tail wagging the dog.
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/modi-stops-demolition-of-temples-in-gujarat/388815/

Regards,

Marshall


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[Goanet] Sonal asked to come clean on alleged right wing links

http://www.dnaindia.com/report.asp?newsid=1208389


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[Goanet] AN OPEN LETTER TO MS. SONAL SHAH,

Here is the full text of the Open Letter sent to Sonal Shah by Coalition 
against Genocide, a brief report of which was carried in yesterday's DNA 
newspaper and posted here.

Regards,

Marshall

AN OPEN LETTER TO MS. SONAL SHAH, MEMBER OF PRESIDENT-ELECT OBAMA'S TRANSITION 
ADVISORY BOARD 

Your recent statement on Hindu nationalist groups raises more questions than 
it answers. 

November 20, 2008 

Dear Ms. Shah, 

We are a coalition of Indian-American groups and individuals representing 
diverse faiths, interests, and political affiliations, who are looking forward 
to working with the administration of President Obama to ensure that the 
interests of all Indian-Americans have a place in its policies. We represent 
families who have grievously suffered from the Vishwa Hindu Parishad (VHP) led 
pogroms against Muslim minorities of Gujarat in 2002; Christians, whose 
communities and places of worship are under assault by VHP and its various 
creations for no other reason than the faith they were born in, or chose; 
Hindus and human rights activists who have been fighting, often at great peril 
to their persons, against religious bigotry and violence being fanned by the 
VHP, the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS), and their various incarnations in 
India as well as in the United States (the Sangh Parivar). 

As you can understand, we are legitimately concerned about reports of your 
personal links with the VHP -- whose social values, politics, and actions are 
antithetical to President-elect Obama's message of hope and inclusiveness -- 
and how those links might possibly influence your role in the transition team 
and the new administration's policies towards India and Indian-Americans.

Your recent public statement, therefore, that your personal politics have 
nothing in common with the views espoused by the Vishwa Hindu Parishad (VHP), 
the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS), or any such organization is a welcome 
one, and we fully expect that your actions on the transition team will be 
faithful to that assertion. 

However, your statement does not allay all of our concerns, given the 
irrefutable public record of your and your family's linkages to the VHP and 
other Sangh Parivar organizations, as confirmed in recent utterances by RSS 
circles in India and by VHP America. We would like to share those concerns with 
you in the hope that you will respond to them:

To begin with, like you, many of us were engaged in relief work in the 
aftermath of the 2001 Gujarat earthquake, when we came away with admiration for 
Gujarat's civil society, despite persistent allegations that VHP and RSS were 
cynically using the disaster relief efforts to further their sectarian agendas. 
Many of us returned to Gujarat promptly in 2002 to provide relief and succor to 
battered Muslim (and Hindu) families, following the unprecedented violence 
directed against them -- this time despite the openly obstructionist tactics of 
the Gujarat government. This period was followed by systematic intimidation of 
activists by the state: e.g. frivolous lawsuits against Ms. Mallika Sarabhai, a 
renowned artist and community activist, which prompted the Supreme Court of 
India to intervene on her behalf. And more recently, emboldened by their 
impunity in Gujarat, the Sangh Parivar has been orchestrating wide-spread 
violence against Christians in several BJP and BJP-partnered sta tes of India, 
which has renewed the public demand for a ban on the VHP and its affiliate, the 
Bajrang Dal. 

We remind you of this recent history to express our dismay and disappointment 
that at no time during this terrible period are we aware of any statement from 
you dissociating yourself from these dreadful acts of VHP and RSS, especially 
given your proximity to these organizations: As a person associated with 
VHP/RSS's earthquake relief efforts in 2001, we are not aware of any 
acknowledgment from you of their widely reported sectarian bias in providing 
relief. We are not aware of any assistance from you or by IndiCorps to the 
thousands of families affected by the 2002 communal pogroms, nor are we aware 
of your speaking out against the funding of organizations implicated in these 
hate campaigns by charities in the United States, with some of whom you have 
been partnering. And, more recently, we have not heard any condemnation from 
you of the spate of violence against Christian Adivasis being orchestrated by 
VHP, for which the BJP-partnered government in Orissa has been severely i 
ndicted by India's National Commission for Minorities. 

In the face of these facts, your bold assertion that you have always condemned 
any politics of division, of ethnic or religious hatred, of violence and 
intimidation as a political tool is deeply troubling.

Furthermore, the revelation that you were part of the inner circle of VHP 
America at the time of the Gujarat earthquake indicates that your role was not 
confined only to humanitarian relief -- an

[Goanet] Let's Rethink Conversion- Rudolf Heredia

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Opinion/Editorial/TOP_ARTICLE__Lets_Rethink_Conversion/articleshow/3741900.cms

Regards,

Marshall


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[Goanet] Let Sleeping Gods Lie

2008-11-20 Thread marshallmendonza


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Balbir Punj writes:
Now to the alleged rape of a nun in Kandhamal. Such 'Rape of nun by
Hindu fascist' stories have turned out to be false in Jhabua, Jajjhar
and Baripada in the past.
Comment:
One of the falsehoods repeatedly spread by the sangh parivar is that the rape 
of nuns never took place at Jhabua or that the rapists were christians 
themselves. In this regard, kindly refer to the following report for the true 
facts:

Indian Church Hails Severe Sentence In Nun Rape Case 

May. 03, 2001 

THRISSUR, India, May 3, 01 (CWNews.com) - The Church in India has expressed 
deep satisfaction over the court judgment sentencing most of the accused in 
the 1998 gang rape of four nuns and looting of a remote convent near Jhabua in 
central Madhya Pradesh state. 

The belief of the people in the judicial system in the country has been 
vindicated by this verdict and it has increased the moral stature of the 
judicial system of our country, said Archbishop Oswald Gracias, secretary 
general of the Catholic Bishops Conference of India (CBCI) on Wednesday. 
Describing the judgment as a just verdict, CBCI has expressed gratitude 
towards those who contributed immensely in bringing the culprits of this 
abominable crime to book. 

The CBCI statement follows the Jhabua district court verdict of April 28 
sentencing ten of the 25 men charged with rape and looting the convent to life 
imprisonment and seven others accused of looting only to two to three years of 
prison. Six defendants were acquitted. 

Bishop George Anathil of Indore, in which Jhabua is located, said, Justice has 
been done to the nuns who were victims of one of the most heinous crimes 
committed against women, especially against women dedicated to God, religion, 
and the service of society. 

In this context I would like to state once more that none of the accused is a 
Christian, though people of vested interests have been proclaiming time and 
again that half of the accused were Christian, said Bishop Anathil. He also 
said that the Christian community had consistently demanded a fair inquiry to 
bring those guilty of this horrible crime to justice, irrespective of their 
religious or other affiliations. 

However, the local prelate has cautioned Christian institutions and Church 
workers in the area to take precautionary measures to avoid any further attacks 
by the Bhils (all the accused belong to the Bhil tribe), given the community's 
tendency to take revenge.

http://www.cwnews.com/news/viewstory.cfm?recnum=15432




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[Goanet] SACKING MARGARET ALVA BY ANTI-CHRISTIAN CONGRESS

2008-11-19 Thread marshallmendonza

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Freddy Agnelo Fernandes:
Religion has nothing to do with Mrs. Alva's resignation, it's discipline all
theway and we shouldn't condone action like these.
Comment:
I fully endorse what you say. Religion had no part to play at all. It was pure
intras-party dynamics where each leader is only interested in promoting the
careers of their children.

That is not to say that the Congress has not played footsie with the communal
card from time to time. The opening of the locks of the Babri Masjid, the
impassiveness displayed during the destruction of the Babri Masjid, the
genocide in Gujarat, the carnage in Orissa are all testimonies to the role
played by the Congress. The anti-conversion laws in MP, Orissa, Arunachal
Pradesh and HP were all passed during Congress rule. In fact in HP it was
passed without any provocation just to score points over the BJP(the christians
are about 1 only in HP). The Presidential Order of 1950 depriving dalit
minorities other than hindus from getting benefits of reservation was passed by
the Congress.

The BJP could have grown into a centre-right party had it junked its extremist
ideology. But it will just not cut off the umbilical cord which binds it to the
RSS whose mindet and ideology is stuck in the 14th Century and which is
anathema and incompatible in this modern world. In Goa, the BJP has gone into a
limbo. It has not espoused people's causes like anti-mining, illegal
construction, corruption etc. which could have earned it people's support. It
only comes to life in case of temple issues.

As a result the Congress continues to rule by default by being considered a
lesser of the two evils.

Regards,

Marshall

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[Goanet] VHP opposes govt relief to rebuild Orissa Churches

2008-11-18 Thread marshallmendonza


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'Though Maoist rebels claimed responsibility for the killings, some Hindus held 
Christians responsible for the crime, despite repeated denials by Christian 
organisations. '

Read full article.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/India/VHP_opposes_govt_relief_to_rebuild_Orissa_churches/articleshow/3726931.cms

Regards,

Marshall


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[Goanet] Evangelism Indian Culture

2008-11-18 Thread marshallmendonza


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This refers to the post of Dr Barad.

May I request Dr Barad or his ghostwriter to kindly furnish the source of his 
data and statistics so that I could adequately respond to him.

The rest is his opinion or views, which is contrary to the opinion or views of 
many of us which have been expressed upteem times on this forum, and which do 
not warrant repetition.

Regards,

Marshall





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[Goanet] 125 crude bombs found in Kannur, Kerala

2008-11-13 Thread marshallmendonza


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http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/125_crude_bombs_found_in_Kannur_Kerala/articleshow/3709415.cms


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[Goanet] Power of Faith

2008-11-13 Thread marshallmendonza


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Here is a beautiful inspirational story of a man who was born without limbs but 
could still overcome his handicaps. 
http://www.mumbaipluses.com/newbombayplus/index.aspx?Page=articlecomments=truesectname=Eventssectid=4contentid=2008111320081113134516970da70b042

Regards,

Marshall


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[Goanet] Hindutva Terrorism

2008-11-12 Thread marshallmendonza

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Dear Moderator,

Kindly discard the earlier posting on this subject as one of the links was
incomplete. Please post this one. Thanks.

Regards,

Marshall

' Everybody knows what an extremist response would be, whether it be Hindutva
or Christianist. Of course, there are people who believe that the latter are
better than the former, or vice versa. Also, the original comment belies the
common experience that retaliation is the basis of most wars and judicial
systems, irrespective of the religious affiliation of the war makers and
juries.Cheers,Santosh

The issue is do we condone or condemn all such violence. Or do we take the
stance that it happens all the time, it is inevitable, and simply brush it off
as we are not personally affected. Or do we attempt to light a candle in this
darkness by adding our sane voice to drown the insane voices.

Secondly, I make a distinction between Hindutva as an ideology similar to
fascism and nazism as opposed to Hinduism as a religion. Hindutva is an
ideology of comparitively recent origin having been founded sometime in the
1930's. The principles are clearly expounded in the books written by RSS Chief
Golwalkar, 'We or our Nationhood Defined' and 'Bunch of Thoughts'. One can
easily trace a pattern in the violence to the ideas propounded in these books.

I am aware of the SC ruling on hindutva. This ruling was severely criticised by
leading jurists. However, please read what Justice A N Verma who delivered the
judgement had to say subsequently.
http://www.hinduonnet.com/2003/02/06/stories/2003020603641100.htm

Also a critique on Justice Verma
http://www.hvk.org/articles/0402/142.html

Further a very important and vital point in the Orissa violence was that it was
not a case of retaliation but pure aggression.

Regards

Marshall

[Goanet] Fall in Line

2008-11-11 Thread marshallmendonza


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Editorial in Times of India.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Editorial/EDIT_Fall_In_Line/articleshow/3700864.cms
Regards,

Marshall


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[Goanet] How did we survive our Childhood without the goodies of today ?


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Freddy,

It was wonderful feeling reading your write up. Though I did not grow up in 
Goa, I did spend many summer vacations there. Your write up brought back 
nostalgic memories of the days gone by. Those days will never come back again. 
That is the price we pay for development and progress. Thanks once again for 
the beautiful article.

Regards,

Marshall


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[Goanet] Hindutva terrorism

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In continuation with the discussion between Santosh and Fredrick, it needs to
be clarified for those who are not aware, that Hindutva and Hinduism are not
the same or synonymous. Hindutva is an ideology of the extreme right which is
fashioned after the fascism of Mussolini and Nazism of Hitler. Whereas Hinduism
is all inclusive and embracing, hindutva tends to divide people between 'we'
and 'them'. The hindutvawadis in order to gain respect and acceptance of the
wide peaceful majority try to project that they represent and speak for the
majority. In order to understand the hindutva ideology, discerning readers
should refer to the books 'We or our nation defined' by M S Golwalkar, former
RSS chief as also ' Brotherhood in Saffron' and 'Bunch of thoughts'. This will
give a keen insight into the mindset of the hindutvawadis and explain all the
violence taking place against minorities.

What should especially disturb peaceloving, liberal and secular minded hindus
is the fact that they too are considered as enemies after the muslims,
christians and communists.

Recently there was an interesting article on how hinduism is being hijacked by
hindutva. It bears reading once again.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Editorial/Opinion_Aping_each_other/articleshow/3670047.cms

Regards,

Marshall

[Goanet] Saffron Terror


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Mario asks:
Marshall, I am noticing recently a pattern of posts under your name, which 
amount to a barrage of selective information about Hindu extremism in India, 
without the context of Hindus generally.
Comment:
May I request you to kindly go through the posts once again? They speak of 
hindutva terror. For the uninitiated and uninformed, there is a subtle 
difference between hinduism and hindutva. Hindutva and Hinduism are not the 
same or synonymous. Hinduism is a rich religion with a 5000 year tradition and 
which is all inclusive and embracing. India under hinduism welcomed people of 
all faiths and gave shelter to them.r But all this is slowly changing now. 
Hindutva in contrast is an ideology fashioned on the fascism of Mussolini and 
Nazism of Hitler.Hitler and Mussolini were the role models for the founders of 
the RSS. Hindutva believes in dividing people into 'we' versus 'them'. Shades 
of Bush (43).

The hindutvawadis in order to gain respect and acceptance of the wider peaceful 
majority try to falsely project that they represent and speak for the majority. 
In order to understand the hindutva ideology, discerning readers should refer 
to the books 'We or our nation defined' by M S Golwalkar, former RSS chief as 
also ' Brotherhood in Saffron' and 'Bunch of Thoughts'. This will give them a 
keen insight into the mindset of the hindutvawadis and explain all the violence 
taking place against minorities.

What should especially disturb peaceloving, liberal and secular minded hindus 
is the fact that they too are considered as enemies after the muslims, 
christians and communists.

Mario writes:
There are some 800 million Hindus in India who do not believe in the Hindutva 
philosophy, compared to the relatively small number of Hindus who do.
Comment:
Very true. The vast majority of hindus and Indians are peaceful and secular in 
nature and outlook. It is also true that the BJP has never secured in the best 
of times more than 25% votes even after over 80 years after the formation of 
the RSS. However, the potential for causing violence and destruction by a 
fringe section cannot be underestimated.

Mario writes:
Proof of this lies in the rejection of the BJP and their India Shining 
campaign of a few years ago, when they were ousted largely by Hindus who 
believe in secularism and tolerance, and if this were not so, India would have 
been as ethnically cleansed as Pakistan by now.
Comment:
The BJP lost the elections for a variety of reasons and circumstances among 
which was secularism. So far as ethnic cleansing is concerned, the BJP made a 
start in 2002 when VHP / BD marauders armed with voters list systematically 
destroyed muslim homes, places of worship and businesses and mercilessly killed 
over 2000 of them. They have been driven to live in ghettos and relief camps 
where many of them still live to this day even after 6 years. I suggest you 
view the Tehelka tapes and newscripts from the Starnews archives to get a fair 
idea of what transpired as memories are notoriously short.There has been a 
repeat in Orissa in 2008. Christians have been burnt alive, beaten 
brutally,killed, their homes, places of worship and institutions destroyed. 
They have been forced into relief camps and threatened with death never to 
return. That the cleansing has not been as bad as Pakistan is a small blessing. 
But then would you consider Pakistan as a benchmark?

Mario writes:
Don't you find it ironic that the series of articles you are posting exposing 
the Hindutva movement are from Frontline, a magazine from the publishers of the 
Hindu?
Comment:
Never judge a book from its title/ cover. The Hindu is owned and edited by N 
Ram a vociferous defender of freedom of speech. He has no links with hindutva. 
He is a liberal, secular hindu.

Mario writes:
It is up to local, state and federal governments and the legal system in India 
to put any extremist genies who escape, back in the bottle. If they are failing 
to do so, your complaint should be with them.
Comment:
If you have been following the news reports, you would find that the police and 
state administration and to a lesser extent the centre has been held 
responsible for the lapses and dereliction of duty. 

Mario writes:
However, the information you have posted suggests the legal system did do its 
job in preventing POTA to be abused by the Gujarat government.
Comment:
This particular episode is

[Goanet] Proximity is key to raking it in


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I came across this interesting article on making money. On reflection, it 
appears absolutely true. However, I would welcome the views of our financial 
gurus Gabe and Mervyn and listen to what they have to say.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Columnists/S_Desai_Proximity_key_to_raking_it_in/articleshow/3692555.cms

Regards,

Marshall


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[Goanet] Sonal Shah in Obama's advisory list

2008-11-09 Thread marshallmendonza

An interesting fallout of Barack Obama's election as President is the naming of 
Sonal Shah an Indo-American in his council of advisors. It just happens that 
Sonal Shah and her family are staunch RSS/ VHP members. They have been actively 
collecting funds for the VHP which has been formenting trouble in various parts 
of the country. The VHP / BD narrowly escaped being banned as a terrorist 
organisation due to the lack of spine displayed by the Congress. However, it 
will be interesting how Obama who stands for human rights reconciles having a 
person with fundamentalist leanings on his staff.
http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage/StoryPage.aspx?sectionName=Cricketid=c92bdef7-a366-47df-bf51-daae396caeecMatchID1=4816TeamID1=6TeamID2=1MatchType1=1SeriesID1=1212PrimaryID=4816Headline=Obama+team+member%2c+Sonal%2c+has+VHP+links

Regards,

Marshall


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[Goanet] Saffron terror

Article on hindutva terror in Frontline. Read on.
http://www.frontlineonnet.com/stories/20081121252310100.htm

Regards,

Marshall


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[Goanet] Terror bogey - V.VENKATESAN

How laws are used to browbeat and subdue minorities in India. POTA for muslims 
and Freedom of Religion Act for christians.
http://www.frontlineonnet.com/stories/20081121252303200.htm

Regards,

Marshall


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[Goanet] Saffron has a go at history - Khushwant Singh

Yet another insightful article on the brainwashing of hindu youth. Are we 
surprised at the kind of violence then? Goans need to be constantly reminded 
that the HJS / SS which has been involved in bomb blasts has its headquarters 
in Goa.

http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage/StoryPage.aspx?sectionName=HomePageid=ec9a3af8-511f-4612-8602-bf6eb40cd378MatchID1=4816TeamID1=6TeamID2=1MatchType1=1SeriesID1=1212PrimaryID=4816Headline=Saffron+has+a+go+at+history

Regards,

Marshall


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[Goanet] Hindutva terrorism

In an earlier posting when I had posted George Menezes' article ' An Open 
Letter to L K Advani' with the preface that it was a typical christian reaction 
to violence, Santosh querried 'How are typical Hindu, Muslim, Sikh, Buddhist, 
Jain, Parsi or other non-Christian responses different from this?'
To which I replied that the hindutva response would be more violence. Here is a 
sample below.

Quote:'I don’t believe in the philosophy of turning the other cheek if someone 
slaps you. We must strike back...why can’t we have a blast for a blast? 
Unquote

Read on for complete article.

http://communalism.blogspot.com/

Regards,

Marshall


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[Goanet] Karnataka govt curbing Church

Aiz maka, falea tuka. Remember it is happening in Karnataka today, tomorrow it 
can happen in Goa. Goans need to be alert and speak out.
http://www.dnaindia.com/report.asp?newsid=1204764

Regards,

Marshall


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[Goanet] These Marwaris speak sparkling Konkani

2008-11-07 Thread marshallmendonza

While goans are apparently giving up konkani in favour of English and other 
languages, here are marwaris in Bombay who speak the language fluently. Read on.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Mumbai/These_Marwaris_speak_sparkling_Konkani/articleshow/3682954.cms
 

Regards,

Marshall


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[Goanet] Effects of brainwashing

2008-11-07 Thread marshallmendonza

This is the result of brainwashing our youth into hating. And they have their 
benefactors too in the guise of sheep's clothing.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/I_was_Malegaon_mastermind_admits_Lt-Col/articleshow/3683035.cms

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Delhi/ABVP_activists_ransack_DU_seminar_venue_spit_on_SAR_Geelani/articleshow/3681834.cms

Regards,

Marshall


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[Goanet] November Retreat

 Dear Dr.Joyce D'Souza Shamshudin

It was interesting to read the name of the priest Fr Gerry Rebello. I wonder if 
it is the same priest who taught at St Vincent's in Poona. If so, he was my 
teacher. He should be pretty old by now. I remember him well.

Regards,

Marshall


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[Goanet] An Open Letter

Mario,

I do not doubt nor disagree with you that Santosh is a fine person, a 
gentleman, a scholar and whatever other glowing adjectives you may wish to 
describe him. As a fellow goan, I too am proud of him and his achievements. 
However, he is no God or demigod like some would like us to believe. He is as 
human like us with the same weaknesses and failings as any of us. He too trips 
at times. Hence, I have to partly disagree with you based on my experiences 
with him.

If you find the word 'hypocrisy' offensive, I wonder how you would categorise 
the words 'militant political operative' and 'rumour mongerer' used by him. 
Does it enhance his standing?

However, I take your point.

I do not wish to start another thread on this subject. I would rather discus 
issues than personalities.

Regards,

Marshall



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[Goanet] An Open letter

Mervyn Lobo wrote:
Marshall,This is one of the bravest posts I have seen on Goanet.
I hope things do get constructive going forward.
Santosh wrote:
I hope the above assertion turns out to be true in the posts to follow.
Comment:
I would like to repeat my statement once again in case it has not been 
understood properly.
 Rest assured, I am here to contribute positively and constructively
It is a statement of fact and not a resolution. It covers the past, present and 
future.

Regards,

Marshall



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[Goanet] An Open Letter

Santosh: 
I do not find the word hypocrisy offensive. I would categorize as a simple 
dispassionate statement of fact, my characterization of Marshall's having 
engaged in rumor-mongering and in the activities of a political 
operative.Cheers,Santosh 
Comment:
The greatness of a person lies not in proving others wrong but in accepting 
and acknowledging one's own wrongs- Annonymous

Regards,

Marshall



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[Goanet] An Open Letter

2008-11-04 Thread marshallmendonza

Santosh wrote:
What? Now objectivity is a good thing? When did this change of mind occur?
Comment:
Ai saiba. I tried to tell Mervyn in a polite and tactful way that his 
friendship with Santosh should not come in the way of his looking at things 
objectively. And amcho amigo Santosh has totally misconstrued it:-). 

Regards,

Marshall


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[Goanet] An Open Letter to L K Advani by George Menezes

2008-11-03 Thread marshallmendonza

Santosh wrote:
I give below latest examples of partisan chauvinistic remarks, the likes of
which are unlikely to promote communal harmony in this secular public forum.

Here is a typical christian response to the violence unleashed against them.
Love thy enemy. No hate, no hypocrisy, no intellectual airs...Marshall
Mendonza

Comment:
I am amazed at Santosh's wild imagination. He sees red in the most innocuous
statement. Any sensible, objective or levelheaded person reading the above
statement will fail to find any criticism or objectionable word against any
religion or anyone for that matter.In fact, he misses the crux of the message
which was in the attachment, a write up by George Menezes addressed to L K
Advani.

May I ask Santosh whether he is allergic to the word 'christian'? As a
christian am I banned from saying that my religion teaches me to offer my other
cheek? Not to hate? Will Santosh kindly explain what is partisan or
chauvinistic about this?. He too can follow the same principles. No one is
stopping him. Also will he kindly explain in what way does such a statement
fail to promote communal harmony?

Does applauding Gurumurthy contribute to communal harmony? Does posting the
article by Ingrid Albuquerque calling the protest against the carnage in Orissa
'an unnecessary furore' contribute to communal harmony? Santosh does not
practice what he preaches. There is a word for this in the English language. It
is called HYPOCRISY.

Santosh apparently has formed some pre-conceived idea about me. Therefore
anything that I post is like a red red rag to a bull for him. He just has to
find some fault - real or imaginary.Mostly imaginary.

May I request Santosh to at least read George Menezes' article and let us
discus that rather than indulge in this inane debate which leads nowhere.

Regards,

Marshall

[Goanet] An Open Letter

2008-11-03 Thread marshallmendonza

Mervyn,

Thank you for your message. I am doubtful whether you have gone through all the 
exchanges with Santosh before posting this message. Otherwise you would have 
thought twice before saying what you did. Sometimes our personal equations take 
precedence over objectivity. Santosh is not the only one with a reputation. 
Others have one too. And it takes two hands to clap. Building anything requires 
effort. Destroying is easy.

I do not wish to enter into another discussion pointing out the flaws in 
Santosh's or your post as I am aware where they come from. But rest assured, I 
am here to contribute positively and constructively.

Regards,

Marshall 


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[Goanet] Aping each other

2008-11-03 Thread marshallmendonza

Here is an interesting article on how hinduism is being hijacked by hindutva. 
Read on.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Editorial/Opinion_Aping_each_other/articleshow/3670047.cms

Regards,

Marshall


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[Goanet] An Open Letter to L K Advani by George Menezes

--- On Sat, 11/1/08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Here is a typical christian response to the violence
 unleashed against them. Love thy enemy. No hate, no
 hypocrisy, no intellectual airs.
Santosh replied:
How are typical Hindu, Muslim, Sikh, Buddhist, Jain, Parsi or other 
non-Christian responses different from this?
Comment:
Possibly the same. However, I know what the hindutva response would be. Refer
1. Gujarat 2002
2. Orissa 2007/2008 ( Swami Lakshmananda allegedly killed by maoists, yet 
violence against christians)
3. Mangalore 2008 ( here no violence against hindus, yet violence against 
christians)
4. Goa 2008 ( no violence against hindus but some temples desecrated by unknown 
elements, yet violently enforced bandh)

Do you wish me to enumerate many more such examples for you to defend?

Regards,

Marshall





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[Goanet] Democracy in action

One thing I admire most about American democracy is that it provides equal
opportunity for all. Merit is recognised and rewarded without any reference to
class, caste, creed or colour. The law is enforced the same way for all -
whether majority groups or minority groups. Individual freedom is treasured and
protected. One can hold different views, even extremist views. But so long as
one functions within the parameters of the legal system, there are no issues.
There are so many checks and balances in the system that no one, including the
President can take things for granted. Even victims of Guantanamo Bay can sue
and claim damages. Of course, once they have access to the legal system.

Who would have imagined even one year back that a black man Barrack Obama would
have been a presidential candidate and a favourite to win the elections.

Here in India, we have a long way to go. Our democracy is restricted to holding
periodic elections. After that our rulers do what they want and we are left
fending for ourselves. Money power rules. Influence, affiliation, relationship,
caste and creed determine how far one can progress. Justice can be purchased.
It is no wonder that people's faith in the system is getting eroded rapidly. I
fear for the next generation.

Regards,

Marshall

[Goanet] Government let us down, lament Orissa bishops

http://www.dnaindia.com/report.asp?newsid=1202648

Regards,

Marshall


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[Goanet] A time for Father Terry

A very moving article written by Karan Thapar. Read on.

http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage/StoryPage.aspx?sectionName=HomePageid=38bd540e-98aa-4041-aaf6-88717cb2b6c1Headline=A+time+for+Father+Terry

Regards,

Marshall


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[Goanet] Conversion: need to look within, Delhi Archbishop gives a call

Christians response to allegations of 'forced' conversions. Read on.

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/conversion-need-to-look-within-delhi-archbishop-gives-a-call/380050/1

Regards,

Marshall


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[Goanet] POTA- Gulag under BJP rule

Here is an interesting article how laws are misused to browbeat and subdue 
minorities and marginalised sections. Remember - POTA for muslims, Freedom of 
Religion Act for christians.
http://www.tehelka.com/story_main40.asp?filename=Ne081108proscons.asp

Regards,

Marshall


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[Goanet] An Open Letter to L K Advani by George Menezes

Here is a typical christian response to the violence unleashed against them. 
Love thy enemy. No hate, no hypocrisy, no intellectual airs.

http://georgemenace.com/an-open-letter-to-l-k-advani#more-61

Regards,

Marshall


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[Goanet] A Myth Blasted? - Hindutva terror (Outlook)

An interesting article which looks at hindutva terror in Outlook magazine. If 
Indira Gandhi can take credit for undermining institutions like the judiciary 
and parliament, the BJP under AB Vajpayee can take credit for corrupting and 
communalising the armed forces. Remember, for the first time since 
independence, the top brass of the defence forces were compelled to pay their 
respects to the RSS chief, a person without any constitutional authority, 
during BJP rule. Our defence forces which were apolitical so far has since been 
contaminated with the communal virus.
http://www.outlookindia.com/fullprint.asp?choice=1fodname=20081110fname=BMalegaon+Terror+%28F%29sid=1

Regards,

Marshall


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[Goanet] Jungle Laws - the real reason behind violence against christians

The real reason behind violent attacks on christian missionaries is the fact 
that by working among the poorest of the poor, by uplifting them, by providing 
education and healthcare, vested interests who exploited them have been 
affected. Read on.
http://www.outlookindia.com/fullprint.asp?choice=2fodname=20081110fname=Orissa+%28F%29sid=1


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[Goanet] 'The True Face Of The BJP' by Abhishek Singhvi

2008-10-31 Thread marshallmendonza

For those who are still enamoured by the BJP in Goa, here is a timely reminder 
of the ideology it stands for. 
Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty. -- Wendell Phillips, (1811-1884), 
http://www.outlookindia.com/fullprint.asp?choice=1fodname=20081029fname=hindusid=1

Regards,

Marshall


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‘Religion has become politicised’- interview with Margaret Alva

2008-10-31 Thread marshallmendonza

How rotten things have become for Christians in India today can be gauged from
this interview with Mrs Margaret Alva, General Secretary of the Congress Party
and one of the most powerful persons in the party enjoying a close rapport and
proximity to Mrs Sonia Gandhi.

Here are some extracts:
If there was one question you could ask God, what would it be?
Why is there so much injustice in the world? Why does He let it happen? And
these days, I keep asking about the violence against minorities, for instance
against Christians in Orissa. Innocent people are being persecuted because of
their beliefs, they are being butchered and...driven out of their homes.
My household is an open and diverse one --- I have a Rajput daughter-in-law, a
Tamil Brahmin, a Coorgi and so on. But when my Delhi-based grand-daughter who
is seven years old tells me she is afraid to go to church because people may
burn it, I get really worried. My grand-son asked me “what if they know where
we live and come to burn our house?” To have children worried about those
things is unthinkable and completely unacceptable. I would have never thought I
would live to see this kind of thing in India. And no one seems to be bothered.
And I wonder: is that what the freedom fighters fought for? I gave forty years
of my life with a certain idealism, fighting for a secular State and today I
ask myself --- what for? I look around and wonder how we have reached such a
state and see so much violence in the land of the Buddha and Mahatma Gandhi.
Something has gone wrong somewhere with the Indian psyche. Religion has become
politicized and it was never meant to be. Have we forgotten the lessons of
Partition? I believe that a sense of oppression, of hopelessness, of being left
out creates violent reactions among young people. Only love, understanding,
dialogue can help find a way out. But there is so little of it and so much
blame all around. This is the tragedy of India today. And I can only say in the
words of Christ ‘Father forgive them for they know not what they do’.

Selma, I think you have the gift of prophesy. I remember sometime back you
advised the youth of Goa to leave Goa and India and migrate abroad. And you
received quite a bit of flak for saying this. But today we are heading in this
direction aided by the silence of those who should but do not speak out.

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/religion-has-become-politicised/379814/

Regards,

Marshall

[Goanet] Christians On the Run in Iraq

2008-10-31 Thread marshallmendonza

This refers to the following post of Yogesh Desai
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,druck-587345,00.html

It is truly sad when disasters are man made. Iraq was an oasis of secularism
amidst strong Islamic countries under Saddam Hussain. Although he was
autocratic and responsible for many misdeeds, he was truly secular in his
outlook and modern in his approach. But now after George Bush, a born again
Christian, dislodged Saddam and tried to impose his brand of democracy, the
result is there for all to see. Iraq, such a beatiful country, with such a rich
history and a cradle of ancient civilisation has become a pathetic case. All
because of one man - George Bush.

Closer home, India, except for the Kashmir problem, and stray cases of violence
enjoyed comparitive communal harmony. But after the rath yatra of LK Advani and
the demolition of the Babri Masjid, violence has spread to every nook and
corner of the country. How one man can cause so much damage!!! We are losing
whatever progress we are making on the economic field by this mindless violence
which is creating barriers between communities.

In all this, we so called educated and enlightened people also have to share
the blame. We have kept silent just because the violence has not knocked on our
doors. We are complacent because we have good, high paying jobs abroad, and are
not touched by the violence. How long can this go on? Where will it lead us
all? We all need to ponder over this.

Regards,

Marshall

[Goanet] Pope suspends Indian Bishop

Dr. U. G. Barad wrote:
What's this going on? What does the writer mean by saying - Adoption- What
is this adoption all about? And why such adoption is done or undertaken? Can
the writer of Goanet members through some light on this issue and questions
asked. 
Comment:
Please approach a lawyer nearest to you and he will explain to you what 
adoption is all about.
Dr UGB wrote:
I recollect, few days back, Pope Benedict XVI had mouthful to say about
Government of India's dealing with Indian Catholics!! 
Comment:
Rightly so. If you have been following the transgressions committed in Orissa 
against christians, you too should have several mouthful's to say about the 
Orissa government and especially the VHP / BD.
Dr UGB wrote:
With this, I request respectful Pope Benedict XVI to study what's actually
going on in the churches of Goa under pretext of secularism. 
Comment:
Please tell us what you know is actually going on in the churches of Goa under 
pretext of secularism. Then only can a study be made.

Regards,

Marshall




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[Goanet] 'parisan propaganda' and / or 'rumour mongering'

1.Santosh wrote;
Any reasonable person would note that it is pointless to respond to writers who
cannot defend themselves in this forum.
Comment:
Santosh contradicts himself as he commented on Ingrid Albuquerque's article
even though she was not able to respond on this forum. Refer:
http://www.goanet.org/post.php?name=Newslist=goanetinfo=2008-September/authorpost_id=080803
http://www.goanet.org/post.php?name=Newslist=goanetinfo=2008-September/authorpost_id=080957
Wouldn't one call this doublespeak and hypocrisy?

2. Like a consumate politician he neatly skirts answering questions when he is
cornered. Refer:
http://www.goanet.org/post.php?name=Newslist=goanetinfo=2008-September/authorpost_id=080788
http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2008-October/082779.html

3.Santosh wrote:
He denies that the bogus story of the nun can be termed as a rumor, and blames
me for calling it that.
Comment:
First he refers to the report on the burning of the girl at the orphanage as
'inaccuracy'.Refer:
Quote:'Ms. Fernandes raises very good points. She also appears to have
corrected an inaccuracy that was propagated in this forum, namely that a nun
was burned to death. The truth is that she was a Hindu girl. In either case it
is an atrocity.'
http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2008-October/082277.html
Then to score brownie points he terms it as 'rumour'.Refer:
Quote:'When there is a communal riot it is important not to propagate rumors
that might further inflame communal passions.'
http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2008-October/082532.html
And now he goes one step further and calls it 'bogus'
Quote:' He denies that the bogus story of the nun can be termed as a rumor, and
blames me for calling it that'
http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2008-October/082869.html
Wouldn't one call this lack of intellectual honesty and humility to accept
one's mistakes?
And he calls himself objective and levelheaded!!! What kind of conclusion can
one derive?

Meanwhile I have just read the sad news that Fr Bernard Digal who was severely
beaten up by the VHP / BD goons expired due to his injuries. I have no more
interest in continuing this debate with Santosh which will lead nowhere.
Santosh can have the pleasure of having the last word.

Regards,

Marshall

[Goanet] Terrorists weakening government and advance their anti-nationalagenda!!

Dr UG Barad wrote:
In the name of religion just because freedom of religion is granted by our
Indian Constitution, various religious outfits are playing a dangerous game
and yet trying to fish in troubled waters!!
Comment:
First and foremost and top of the list is the party and organisation for which
you have a soft corner and affinity. Have you ever suggested to them not only
to stop fishing in troubled waters but also to cease all their destructive
activities?
DrUGB wrote:
One Goan friend told me that Archbishop Bernard Moras gave an ill-tempered
performance before the media berating the Karnataka CM for not protecting
churches. So the security forces are forced to divert attention from
fighting the menace of terrorism to protecting the trouble-makers whose
conversion activities are responsible for the disturbances. This way the
religious outfits are trying to take advantage of the uncertainty created by
the terrorists to weaken the government and advance their anti-national
agenda.
Comment:
Your goan friend has given you wrong information. Do not trust him in future.
Please refer to the newspapers in the mainstream media during the period of the
violence which was unleashed on christians and their institutions to update
your knowledge on what happened in Mangalore, Bangalore and other places. If
you wish, I can mail you relevant cuttings and extracts. As for terrorists who
take advantage and weaken governments, please refer to the media reports on the
terrorists who have been arrested for the bomb blasts in Modasa, Malegaon,
Nanded, Kanpur and Navi Mumbai.I can help you with the reports if you find any
difficulty. You will find it difficult to hide after that.
DrUGB wrote:
I would say, at no stretch of imagination I will ever call persons like
Sangliana, John Dayal as religious leaders for they have proved themselves as
political propagandists.
Comment:
Sangliana and John dayal have never called themselves religious leaders. And I
can tell you for sure that they are far better people and human beings and have
an excellent track record and credibility than many of our posters here on
goanet who cannot hold a candle to them.
Dr UGB wrote:
Such people should be treated as such and smashed at any given occasion.
Comment:
I do not know how this got past the moderators!!!

Regards,

Marshall

Comment:

[Goanet] Death of Fr Bernard Digal

I have just received an email forwarded by a friend reporting the death of Fr
Bernard Digal who was severely beaten up during the Orissa carnage. He
succumbed to his injuries after nearly two months. Please remember him as well
as all the other Orissa victims in your prayers.

Regards,

Marshall

AICC Update
One More Death Toll in Orissa
Fr. Bernard Scumbled to Death after suffering for two months in Hospital

One more death toll of anti Christian Violence in Orissa. Fr. Bernard who was
attacked during anti-Christian violence in the month of August in Kandhamal
district of Orissa is reported death at Chennai this evening.

Sources reaching from Rev. Harichandra, PRO of AICC, Orissa reports that Fr.
Bernard was attacked in Kandhamal is last August. His jeep was burnt and he was
brutally beaten and left in the open field. He was taken to the local hospital
in Bhubaneshwor, then taken to Mumbai and later to Chennai. He succumbed to
death for his faith and in the service of His master at Chennai this evening.

The anti-christian violence reported by Orissa government of coming to the
normal is of the fact that there is no Christian left in Christian villages to
be attacked and killed by Hindutva forces and not Christian home and church
also left in those villages that Hindu fanatics can burn down.

15000 refugees in relief camps and 40,000 refugees in forest, refused to return
back to their espective homes and villages for the fear of attacked and killed
or get forced them to convert to Hinduism. Orissa has Freedom of Religion which
bans the conversion, but the conversion to Hinduism is not considered a crime
even the nature of fraud and fraudulent conversion carried out by the Hindutva
brigades.

Madhu Chandra
Regional Secretary
All India Christian Council

[Goanet] MY CHALLENGE TO BABUSH

2008-10-27 Thread marshallmendonza

frank dcruz babadcruz at yahoo.co.in
I cant believe this! THE SO CALLED EDUCATION MINISTER IN GOA DOES NOT EVEN HAVE 
AN SSC CERTIFICATE,  GOD HELP US ALL
edward desilva :
That is what I have been saying from the very beginning. - Illiterate MLAs
It is the people of Goa who have to find out about these people before they 
vote as MLAs.
WHAT ARE THE INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALIST DOING IN GOA.
I suppose the Goa papers are not interested in the welfare of Goa.
Comment:
Sometime back there were news reports that Parulekar the MLA from Saligao too 
has fudged his educational qualifications. Why is Aires letting him off the 
hook? Is there something more behind the crusade against Babush's educational 
qualification? Is there any destabilisation process on? Who stands to gain? We 
need an entire clean up, not just Babush.

Regards,

Marshall


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[Goanet] Politics of terror

2008-10-27 Thread marshallmendonza

Editorial in Indian Express
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/sadhvis-politics/378335/
http://www.ndtv.com/convergence/ndtv/story.aspx?id=NEWEN20080070187
Goans should be concerned as there is a link to the HJS/ SS which is 
headquartered in Goa.
http://ibnlive.in.com/news/saffron-terror-links-grow-deep-more-arrested--more/76799-3.html

Regards,

Marshall


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[Goanet] Hate as a history lesson

2008-10-27 Thread marshallmendonza

Here is another interesting article how young minds are brainwashed in Vidya 
Shishu Mandirs and Madrassas. Is it any wonder that India is in turmoil? What 
kind of education are we imparting? What kind of citizens are we raising? Read 
on.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/msid-3641521,flstry-1.cms

Regards,

Marshall


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Re: [Goanet] 'partisan propaganda' / 'rumour mongering'

1. Santosh has arrogated to himself  the right to pass judgement on others, 
label or brand those who hold contrary views from his and decide what is the 
truth and what is not. 

Eg: He thrashes reports posted by me as partisan propaganda and rumour 
mongering.
Quote:
I am disappointed that activists fail to recognize the value of objectivity, 
level-headed discussion, and the need to refrain from resorting to partisan 
propaganda and rumor-mongering.
Cheers,Santosh
Unquote
http://www.goanet.org/post.php?name=Newslist=goanetinfo=2008-October/authorpost_id=082534

The meaning of propaganda is misinformation, party line, half truths. Can 
Santosh substantiate this ?

He terms the reports partisan and rumour mongering.

The reports posted by me include  personal testimonies of victims and articles  
written by eminent persons like  Shashi Tharoor, former Under Secretary General 
to the UNO and India’s candidate for the post of Secretary General, Khushwant 
Singh, former editor of Hindustan Times and Illustrated Weekly, Michael Pinto, 
former IAS officer and member of the Minorities Commission, Michael Saldanha, 
former Judge of the Karnataka HC, Julio Ribeiro, former DGP and Ambassador to 
Rumania, George Menezes, former diplomat and expert on  management, Ram 
Punayani, former professor of IIT, Mumbai, Maxwell Pereira, former IPS officer, 
Dipankar Gupta, Socialogist and Professor at JNU, Dr Joseph D’Souza, President 
of AICU, Archbishop Agnelo Gracias, B. Raman, former Additional Secretary, Lead 
articles and editorials  in Times of India, Hindu, NDTV, IBN, Outlook, 
Frontline, India Today, Tehelka besides articles and  news reports from the 
mainstream media. 
 
Refer articles by eminent personalities which have already been posted earlier 
on Goanet but which are relevant to this discussion are appended below.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Opinion/Columnists/Shashi_Tharoor/Respect_an_individuals_decision/articleshow/3561097.cms
Respect an individual's decision by Shashi Tharoor 
Stop this Politics of Hate
http://209.85.175.104/search?q=cache:tjHIY6dFQPMJ:timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Opinion/Columnists/Shashi_Tharoor/SHASHI_ON_SUNDAY/Stop_the_politics_of_division/articleshow/msid-3585029,curpg-2.cms+stop+this+politics+of+division+shashi+tharoorhl=enct=clnkcd=2gl=in
Hindu Fundamentals are under attack
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Opinion/Columnists/Shashi_Tharoor/SHASHI_ON_SUNDAY/Hindu_fundamentals_are_under_attack/articleshow/3535323.cms
http://sidhusaaheb.blogspot.com
The Communal Psyche- Hapless Christians Handy for Minority Bashing by Dipankar 
Gupta
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/LEADER_ARTICLE_Two_Sides_Of_The_Same_Coin/rssarticleshow/3578075.cms
Two Sides Of The Same Coin by  Harbans Mukhia (Times of India dt. 10.10.2008)
Faith no more by Khushwant Singh
http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage/StoryPage.aspx?id=064bbc98-99b7-4272-8245-7fc5090f7247
 
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Editorial/Dont_Target_Converts/articleshow/3571221.cms
 
Don't Target Converts  by Michael Pinto
An old testament by George Menezes
http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage/StoryPage.aspx?sectionName=id=4127c514-6f85-41f4-bebb-95f81738c492MatchID1=4814TeamID1=6TeamID2=1MatchType1=1SeriesID1=1212PrimaryID=4814Headline=An+old+testament
http://www.outlookindia.com/fullprint.asp?choice=2fodname=20081013fname=Column+Neelabh+%28F%29sid=1
The Crucifixion of Words by Neelabh Mishra
http://www.outlookindia.com/fullprint.asp?choice=2fodname=20081006fname=bajrangdalsid=1
   
Frankenstein’s Monsters by B Raman
http://www.cbcisite.com/cbcinews2463.htm
Why extremist Hindus attack Christians by Bishop Agnelo Gracias
http://news.in.msn.com/national/article.aspx?cp-documentID=1675049
Maoists take credit for killing VHP leader- Source: Indo-Asian News Service
http://indiatoday.digitaltoday.in/index.php?option=com_contenttask=viewid=16652Itemid=1issueid=74sectionid=36limit=1limitstart=0
The rogue army by Farzand Ahmed  
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/13/world/asia/13india.html?_r=1emoref=slogin

 
Can any of these reports by any stretch of imagination be termed as ‘partisan’, 
‘propaganda’ and ‘rumour mongering’, except by a sick, biased or prejudiced 
mind?

2. Santosh claims  he is objective and  levelheaded in his outlook. This is 
what he says
Mon Oct 13 09:45:35 PDT 2008 

Good to see another broader perspective on this problem being posted here.

Cheers,Santosh--- On Sun, 10/12/08, Rina Mukherji  rina.mukherji at gmail.com 
 wrote:  Contrary to what Indians here and Christians elsewhere have  been 
told by  evangelical missionaries, media and seculars, the Kandhamal  arson 
is not, as  it has been concocted, a clash between Hindu and Christian  
faithfuls at  all.The truth is that it is a continuation of the clashes  that 
had started  in early 1990s between the 'Kandha' tribe, which  did not 
convert to  Christianity, and 'Pana' caste people, most of whom  had 
converted.

  Religion is the spice added to

[Goanet] latest on Hindutva terrorism

http://www.ndtv.com/convergence/ndtv/story.aspx?id=NEWEN20080070116
http://www.ndtv.com/convergence/ndtv/story.aspx?id=NEWEN20080069817ch=633606250759362601
http://www.ndtv.com/convergence/ndtv/story.aspx?id=NEWEN20080070089ch=633606250898322579
http://www.ndtv.com/convergence/ndtv/story.aspx?id=NEWEN20080070057ch=633606252126533080
http://ibnlive.in.com/news/saffron-link-caught-on-camera-bjp-red-in-face/76769-3.html


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[Goanet] Will Karnataka follow Gujarat and Orissa

Will Karnataka follow Gujarat and Orissa. Read on. Report in Tehelka.

http://www.tehelka.com/story_main40.asp?filename=Ne011108proscons.asp

Regards,

Marshall


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[Goanet] How brainwashing is done - a lesson for all

Refer to the undermentioned report on how brainwashing is done. Is it any 
wonder that commumal strife if only getting aggravated? Was Selma entirely off 
the mark when she commented about an entire new generation being brought up on 
hate propaganda?
http://www.tehelka.com/story_main40.asp?filename=Ne011108Saffron_Techies.asp

Regards,

Marshall


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[Goanet] How brainwashing is done - a lesson for all

Santosh wrote:
In stark contrast to this type of sensationalist assertions that we have been
overdosed with on Goanet - assertions that might serve only to polarize
Goanetters along communal lines, appended below is a sober-minded and
thoughtful article by Eduardo Faleiro.

This article was forwarded to me by a level-headed mainstream Goan who rightly
believes that the best way to tackle the problem of communal riots and violent
religious extremism is to make it a right thinking Goan of whatever
denomination vs violent Hindutva extremists issue, rather than a Catholic
Goan activists vs whoever they imagine to be supporters of violent Hindu
extremists issue.

Comment:
I am intrigued how Santosh finds articles and news items exposing hindutva
activities communal. Does he too equate hindutva with hinduism? Does he believe
that the sangh parivar represents hindus? Does he believe that one should be
blind to hindutva disruptionist activities? Would he consider all exposes /
news itews on violent activities communal or only those related to hindutva?
Would speaking of violent activities of other groups like SIMI, naxalites be
considered nationalistic and level headed? I think he is missing the wood for
the trees.

[Goanet] Hindutva terrorism

2008-10-25 Thread marshallmendonza

Here are some new reports on hindutva terorism. One good thing about television 
is that it captures pictures and images which cannot be denied later or given a 
spin. Today they showed on NDTV, pictures of the sadhvi with the BJP President 
Rajnath Singh as well as with MP chief minister Shivraj Singh Chauhan. That's 
how close she was to the top BJP leadership.

Wonder what would be the response of sangh parivar sympathisers to these 
happenings.


http://www.ndtv.com/convergence/ndtv/story.aspx?id=NEWEN20080070057
http://www.ndtv.com/convergence/ndtv/story.aspx?id=NEWEN20080070006ch=633605682156390131
http://timesnow.tv/Newsdtls.aspx?NewsID=19407

Regards,

Marshall


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[Goanet] Former VHP woman owned motorcycle used in Malegaon blast: Cops

2008-10-24 Thread marshallmendonza

We keep hearing from hindutvawadis the phrase 'that all muslims are not 
terrorists but all terrorists are muslims'. Here is a report on the VHP 
indulging in terrorism at Malegaon.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Former_VHP_woman_owned_Malegaon_blast_motorcycle/articleshow/3634176.cms

Regards,

Marshall
P.S. Statutory Warning: all apologists for the sangh parivar may treat this 
report as 'partisan propaganda' and/ or ' rumour mongering'


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[Goanet] Manufacturing consent by Ram Puniyani

2008-10-24 Thread marshallmendonza

I came across this interesting and thought provoking article in the ET. Like to 
share it with you.

Regards,

Marshall

Manufacturing consent by Ram Puniyani ( Economic Times dt.22.10.2008) 
 
Noam Chomsky is one of the foremost rights activists. He theorised as to how 
the US administration creates consent of the broad layers of population  
for its acts of aggression. 

The perceptions which were drilled into popular psyche related to the dangers 
of communism, while attacking the emergent nation state of Vietnam in 
yesteryears or weapons of mass destruction (WMDs) in Iraq in recent times. 

By the time such propaganda starts getting questioned, the mainstream US 
propaganda becomes part of popular consciousness and too large to be countered 
by the sceptics and its opponents. Manufacturing consent is achieved through 
various mechanisms, the major of that being the media. 

And by the time the state version starts getting challenged the ‘goal’ of the 
state is achieved. So even if the critics prove that there were no WMDs, the 
goal of controlling the oil wells is over. Even if some sections question the 
veracity of the version of 9/11, Afghanistan is in its pocket. 

Another dimension to this comes when the powerful political formations, in 
power or out of power, achieve the same, through molecular permeation, 
infiltration in media, through other parts of state apparatus. In the Indian 
context, the perceptions about minorities can be traced to the role and 
sustained propaganda programmes of ‘supra-political’ formation with a political 
agenda of a Hindu nation. 

Currently ‘all terrorists are Muslims’ is the perception, deep rooted, hardly 
affected by the reports of citizens fact-finding committees or the academic and 
popular contributions by activists/scholars. The initial propaganda gradually 
became part of broad-ranging perceptions and the policies of the 
administration, police and other investigating agencies make it the base of 
their actions. So we see that Batla house encounter in the Jamia Nagar has lot 
of holes in the story dished out by the vacillating police authorities, and the 
human rights activists have pointed the flaws in the same demanding the deeper 
probe. 

The acceptance of such a simple demand is shelved in order to go along with 
popular sentiments and to ‘preserve the morale’ of police force! The voice of 
these activists questioning the version dished out by the authorities hardly 
reaches the popular level as the media already ensures that police version is 
part of popular perception. Truth, the desirable guiding principle of the 
social policies can wait. 

In different acts of terror, in front of mosques or in other crowded places, 
always the Muslims are involved and the job of investigating authorities is 
fairly well cut out. The tragedy with a section of media is that, contrary to 
ethical norm of doubting the official/police versions, they are not only meekly 
accepted; at times they are accepted in highly exaggerated form as well. 

Here the word ‘Islamic terrorism’, initially popularised by the US media after 
9/11, is generously used while nobody has heard of Hindu terrorism when Dhanu 
of LTTE killed Rajiv Gandhi or Sikh terrorism, when Khalistanis were doing such 
actions or Christian terrorism when Irish republican army was indulging in acts 
of terror. 

The other points elaborated by Chomsky relate to ‘Thinkable thought’ and 
‘Unthinkable thought’. These are the outcome of the propaganda, indoctrination, 
which is the culmination of the same process. So by now the thinkable thought 
is that all Muslims are terrorists and unthinkable thought is that anyone else 
can be also be a terrorist. 

By now all the acts of terror where Bajrang Dal is involved are either, 
suppressed, under-projected or forgotten with ease by the social thinking 
process. So the Bajrang Dal activists getting killed while making bombs in 
Nanded or Kanpur soon lapse out from popular memory, and the blasts where Hindu 
Jagran Samiti is involved is not taken due note of. 

The consistent propagation that Christian missionaries convert by force and 
fraud is thinkable thought, good enough of a pretext to kill and maim them. 
There are reports by the human rights groups to the contrary, but that is not 
the story bought by the mainstream, media and others. 

While a section can claim that they are objective, the pattern of reporting of 
large section of media on anti-Christian violence is hidden in the small 
columns in the back pages while the acts of terror hog the front page banner 
headlines. Channels keep screaming about a Muslim terrorist, while reports of 
violence against Christian are buried somewhere under the weight of the news of 
‘jehadi terrorist’, and of those doing aggressive conversions! 

So today, even when the role of state in the carnage of Gujarat, even when 
Modi’s role in leading the carnage in Gujarat is well known, for section of 
media he is the hero,

[Goanet] First person account of the nun who was raped in Orissa

2008-10-24 Thread marshallmendonza

I would be interested in the response of our friend who specialises in 
'objectivity, skepticism and levelheadedness during times of communal 
turmoil'on this news item.  Also wonder whether he will brush this too aside as 
'partisan propaganda' and 'rumour mongering' by 'militant' 'political 
activists'. I really feel sorry and pity the unfortunate victims of the Orissa 
violence. Not only have they had to face death, burnings, rapes, destruction of 
their homes, threats to their lives to renounce their religion for over 45 days 
with a passive police force and indifferent government, but now hear from the 
sceptics and spin doctors who deny and doubt the incidents itself. As if it all 
were a figment of their imagination. Such is the plight of innocent victims. 
And such are the ways of the educated and powerful!!!

http://www.ndtv.com/convergence/ndtv/story.aspx?id=NEWEN20080069971ch=633604847217343750
http://www.ndtv.com/convergence/ndtv/story.aspx?id=NEWEN20080069944
http://www.outlookindia.com/pti_news.asp?id=624611
http://www.ibnlive.com/news/raped-orissa-nun-speaks-about-her-sordid-tale/76648-3.html

Regards,

Marshall


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[Goanet] Hindu groups behind Malegaon, Modasa blasts: Cops

2008-10-23 Thread marshallmendonza

Goans should be concerned amd disturbed at this newa item as the HJS is 
headquartered in Goa and has been been pretty active taking out hate 
exhibitions all over Goa.

http://www.ibnlive.com/news/hindu-groups-behind-malegaon-modasa-blasts-cops/76597-3.html

Regards,

Marshall
P.S. Statutory Warning:All apologists for the sangh parivar may treat this 
report as 'partisan propaganda' and / or 'rumour mongering'


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[Goanet] Rina Mukherji sheds a blinding new light on Orissa violence

2008-10-22 Thread marshallmendonza

Gilbert Lawrence wrote:
It is one thing to have a questioning mind, which is good.  It is another to 
have a 'jaundiced eye' with an attitude; and present oneself as an all-knowing 
person.  This applies to all of us.
Comment:
What astonishes and surprises me is the kind of nit-picking and hair splitting 
over minor details which in any case do not alter the gravity of the crime. It 
seemed more like a boy scout trying to score brownie points. Further, the facts 
were indeed pointed out later as it was published. I would have thought that 
educated and well balanced persons would have looked at the bigger picture.

Regards,

Marshall


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[Goanet] Missing In Action- Maxwell Pereira (Report on Orissa violence)

Here is an insiders account of the Orissa violence by an ex-IPS Officer.

Regards,

Marshall


Missing In Action by MAXWELL PEREIRA (Times of India dt 21.10.2008) 
 
Kandhamal is a failure on many fronts. But from the policing point of view, the 
performance of Orissa police is reminiscent of the wanton inaction as happened 
during the 1984 Sikh riots and tacit collusion in the 1993 Mumbai riots and the 
Gujarat riots of 2002. Despite worldwide condemnation of the police handling of 
these incidents and repeated indictments at the hands of various 
state-appointed commissions, the Indian police, it appears, have not learnt 
their lesson. 

Talking of basics, at the outset the focus should have been on strict action 
against those indulging in and spreading violence instead of waiting for 
political direction. There should have been adequate mobilisation of force, 
visits by senior officers to the affected areas and their continued presence in 
the theatre of violence till normalcy was restored. 

Instead, what was the immediate response of the Orissa police, and how did the 
police leadership react? They suspended the SP of Kandhamal, the one man who 
was known to have controlled the area for the past seven months with an iron 
hand. While the SP was suspended, the DM who with the SP had constituted an 
effective team was transferred. The sinister designs behind this move are now 
surfacing, but for reasons not known are being suppressed from public 
knowledge. 

On Christmas Day in 2007, gangs of fanatics in Kandhamal district had attacked 
churches and Christian institutions, desecrating statues and Bibles and burning 
houses in Christian bastis in a series of premeditated and well- organised 
assaults. In the atrocities that continued for a month, 107 churches were 
destroyed in arson, at least six people died and thousands were rendered 
homeless. 

The victims were mostly tribal or Dalit, poor Christians. The declared 
perpetrators were none other than local Bajrang Dal activists who were 
responding to local preacher Swami Laxmananand’s declared agenda of wiping out 
Christians off the face of Orissa. 

Following widespread outrage at this carnage, the state government — whose 
protective hand over the rabid communal forces was evidently and eminently seen 
— reacted by suspending the Kandhamal SP and replacing him with young Nikhil 
Kanodia, a 2003 entrant into the IPS. Kanodia had already made a name for 
himself for controlling with an iron hand another district plagued by 
Hindu-Muslim communal tension. 

Kanodia was overnight summoned to the state headquarters to be told he has been 
specially selected and sent to Kandhamal to restructure and rejuvenate 
effective policing in the riot-ridden district. The state government 
simultaneously ordered a judicial commission to look into the causes and 
effects of the Kandhamal riots. 

The activities of Laxmananand in the area, including inciting communal violence 
in Kandhamal over the past many years, had led the Orissa police to maintain a 
police file on him which had grown fat over the years with accounts of riots 
caused or triggered by him. Strangely, the police did not check his activities 
even after the December carnage. Instead, he was provided police protection 
ostensibly after receiving written threats on his life from local Maoists whose 
displeasure he had also incurred. 

Laxmananand and other adult members of his ashram were murdered on August 23. 
The attackers identified themselves as Naxalites and left a letter at the scene 
of murder claiming responsibility and stating why they murdered the swami. On 
the basis of evidence of the AK-47 used in the attack and the letter left 
behind, Kanodia briefed the media next day that Maoists were involved in the 
swami’s murder. This was soon after endorsed and reiterated by the police 
headquarters too. 


This did not, it appears, suit the sangh parivar in their designs and ultimate 
objective of targeting Christians. Vishwa Hindu Parishad leader Pravin Togadia 
visited Orissa the next day and declared it was Christians and not Maoists who 
killed the swami. As if in support of this line, the Biju Janata Dal government 
decided to suspend the Kandhamal SP and asked him to report to the police 
headquarters at Bhubaneswar. What’s more, no replacement was sent to Kandhamal 
over the next four days, allowing the perpetrators of violence to act with 
impunity. 

So not only was the one man who had kept the communal forces under check over 
the past seven months ignominiously suspended, he was also conveniently removed 
from the scene to ensure a clear ground for Bajrang Dal goons to unleash 
violence at will. 

If this is not criminal connivance, what else is? And yet Orissa chief minister 
Naveen Patnaik denied inaction and blatantly claimed, “Every bone in my body is 
secular...” This even while his government was openly attempting to deflect 
blame from the Bajrang Dal and resting it solely

[Goanet] Whither went ethics?- Rajiv Desai

When I read the newspaper reports about Tata'a shifting their Nano car making 
plant to Gujarat, I was filled with mixed feelings. On the one hand was the 
moral question whether it was proper for the Tatas to put business before 
morality and thus lend legitimacy to the Modi regime where even today muslims 
are treated as second class citizens and deprived of jobs and social services 
besides being victimised at every possible turn. Further where the government 
has not yet come to terms that all citizens have to be treated fairly. The 
number of times the Supreme Court has passed strictures against the Gujarat 
government would have put lesser mortals to shame. However, the present 
dispensation has become so thickskinned that nothing matters. And the Tatas who 
have a strong reputation for upholding public morality have caved in to the 
lures of the Gujarat govt. On the other hand I recognise the rights of 
businessmen in keeping business and statecraft separate.

Here is an article written by our very own goa settled Rajiv Desai. Some food 
for thought for all of us.

Whither went ethics? by  RAJIV DESAI 
 
 The decision by the Tata Group to relocate the Nano plant in Sanand is of 
concern to liberal Gujaratis. The logic of business is to be competitive an 
d profitable; as such, the move makes sense. The company was right to choose 
the business-friendly state and get down to the task of making the 
revolutionary Nano car, which promises to put India on the global map of the 
auto industry. 

Nevertheless, it just does not sit comfortably with liberal sensibilities in 
the communally-polarised state. The triumphal note that Gujarat chief minister 
Narendra Modi sounded at the media event to announce the pact appeared to be a 
new form of propaganda. He followed it up with a series of television 
interviews in which he positioned himself as a spokes-man for the new India. 

Modi is a politician and, some might even argue, a cynical one. It doesn’t take 
rocket science to see through his new effort to buy respectability. We can 
explain away Modi’s posturing as the way of an ambitious and ruthless 
politician. What is more difficult to accept is the Tatas’ decision-making 
process. 

It is plausible that the decision was made on the rebound after the 
embarrassment and the financial costs of the shenanigans at Singur. Given the 
formidable reputation of the Tatas, did no one consider the possibility that 
the decision could sully that standing? 

The Tata Group has sizable commitments to corporate responsibility programmes. 
They stem from the conviction of senior management that their methods of 
conducting business should be ethical. These laudable programmes have won 
prestigious awards and wide recognition. The Nano project is also driven by the 
same larger vision: to provide affordable personal transport to the emergent 
middle class. 

While some companies are recognised for their socially conscious practices, 
others are disparaged and their efforts often dismissed as hollow public 
relations ploys to whitewash the ethical questions raised by their operations. 


For all the years that such companies have fretted about corporate social 
responsibility, their notion is largely a putative expense to divert attention 
from issues surrounding their business practices. Milton Friedman made sense 
when he famously argued in an article written 38 years ago that “the social 
responsibility of business is to increase its profits”. 

Friedman’s piece stirred a major controversy at the time. Not just his idea of 
corporate responsibility but all his work on monetary theory was dismissed as a 
handmaiden of powerful multinationals. It was the time of Woodstock and 
Vietnam; big business in the West was viewed with hostility in the media, in 
the academy and in the liberal mainstream. In India, given the socialist 
mindsets in politics at that time, business was seen a milk cow: favours and 
cash in exchange for licences and permits. 

With the dawn of the Reagan-Thatcher era, governments ceded space to the 
private sector. That was when views about corporate social responsibility began 
to change. If the private sector has unfettered access to markets, land, labour 
and capital, many scholars and analysts argued, companies must consider the 
larger social entity in their decision-making. 

Seen in that light, the Tatas’ decision to relocate the Nano plant in Gujarat 
raises many questions. Modi is like a chameleon in his relentless pursuit of 
power. Starting out as a fiery Muslim basher, he went on to pose as the 
champion of Gujarati pride; now he pushes himself as a business-friendly 
leader. 

Modi’s culpability in the communal mayhem that followed the Godhra incident was 
clearly established. His effort to gain absolution by setting up the kangaroo 
Nanavati commission was clumsy. It’s in the past. He has changed, the 
cheerleaders say. But who can forget that Modi built his political career by

[Goanet] Face the Facts - Video's on Orissa violence

VIDEO PROVIDED BY

THE BOMBAY CATHOLIC SABHA

AND EDITED BY

MT CARMEL YOUTH MOVEMENT
 

FACE THE FACTS with
90 MINUTES OF EXCLUSIVE FOOTAGE of
TESTIMONIALS OF THOSE PERSECUTED
BROKEN DOWN INTO 11 PARTS
http://in.youtube.com/watch?v=gFnzssYzcUw  (PART 1)
http://in.youtube.com/watch?v=_OEAiZbUMik(PART 2)
http://in.youtube.com/watch?v=uTzHeZV1ElI (PART 3)
http://in.youtube.com/watch?v=r-T7QVDHJww (PART 4)
http://in.youtube.com/watch?v=XVqBHWZtSj0 (PART 5)
http://in.youtube.com/watch?v=uv3ezAJEDPA (PART 6)
http://in.youtube.com/watch?v=Bl5b_H0UqGg (PART 7)
http://in.youtube.com/watch?v=S747H0hsQbo (PART 8)
http://in.youtube.com/watch?v=jlAoneRuJS8 (PART 9)
http://in.youtube.com/watch?v=RKDsF5PepxM (PART 10)
http://in.youtube.com/watch?v=UzpahfzkK4Q (PART 11)
 
 
SPEAK UP OR LIVE IN SILENCE
THE CHOICE IS YOURS
GIVE ORISSA DIGNITY
SHARE THIS WITH EVERY HUMAN BEINGWITH DEEP SINCERITY

Regards,

Marshall



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[Goanet] Panic Rooms

Roland Francis wrote:
In view of communal murders in Orissa, Mangalore, Kasmir and in
countless other places, it would be an option for priests living in
remote troubled areas to build themselves such a safe room. Could save
many lives everywhere.
Comment:
I do not subscribe to such solutions for the simple reason that any minority
group cannot survive despite the best laws and protection system without the
goodwill of the majority. The religious cannot build such shelters for
themselves and leave the laity to the mercy of attackers.

What we need to do as civil society is to raise our voices whenever there is
violence or threat of violence against any section of society and more
especially against the weaker sections like dalits, tribals, and minorities who
are more vulnerable and lack resources.

And that is why I feel disappointed when our intellectuals who should be the
catalysts for such action become armchair discussion groups trying to put on
airs of objectivity.

The positive aspect amidst all this violence is that the average Hindu or
Indian is secular in outlook. And that is why violence has been contained.
Otherwise, this country would have become an inferno.

The negative aspect is that the state is slowly withering away. It is not able
to perform its functions. And that emboldens unruly groups to take law into
their own hands, becoming something of a wild west, where might is right. There
is a breakdown of state machinery in many states not all ruled by the BJP. eg:
Maharashtra, Goa, Assam, Orissa, Jharkhand, Bihar, UP. And this is something I
fear that we may slowly go the way of Pakistan or some of the african countries
into chaos and anarchy.

Regards,

Marshall

[Goanet] Monday Morning Bandh Blues In Goa

2008-10-20 Thread marshallmendonza

Clinton Vaz wrote:
An illegal bandh, supported by the BJP, opposed by the ruling congress.
If the state government has no control over the state, then what's the
state of affairs? Is this organized by forces close to the BJP to make
it appear that we have an impotent government? My faith in the present
Government is waning, but if the BJP forces seem to be behind all of
this, then I distrust whatever Government they propose to form as well.
How many more times will such bandh like situations occur? Perhaps Goa
ought to put in legislation like the Kerala Goverment, making the
organizers of the Bandh reponsible and required to pay for whatever
damage that occurs during their imposed bandh.

Comment:
Clinton, as per law all bandhs are illegal. If a few spirited persons like you
are willing, please file a PIL petition in the High Court. The Bombay HC has
fined the BJP and Shiv Sena in the past for organising a bandh in Bombay and
depriving people of their livelihood.If I remember correctly, it was filed by
Gerson D'Cunha, Alyue Padamsee and a few others. It is a good time to nip the
nuisance in the bud.I can help you source the information and contacts, if you
wish.

Regards,

Marshall

[Goanet] Monday Morning Bandh Blues In Goa

2008-10-20 Thread marshallmendonza

Clinton

Here are some leads.

http://www.agnimumbai.org/blogs/gerson.asp
http://www.hindu.com/2004/07/24/stories/2004072405561100.htm
http://www.indianexpress.com/res/web/pIe/ie/daily/19970730/21150383.html

Regards

Marshall


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[Goanet] Hounds And The Flock by Smita Gupta (Outlook Magazine)

2008-10-19 Thread marshallmendonza

Here are some interesting articles which appears in the latest issue of Outlook 
magazine.

http://www.outlookindia.com/fullprint.asp?choice=2fodname=20081027fname=Conversions+%28F%29sid=1

Regards,

Marshall


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[Goanet] The forces of unreason- report in Tehelka (Orissa re-visited)

2008-10-18 Thread marshallmendonza

A report on the current situation in Orissa

http://www.tehelka.com/story_main40.asp?filename=Ne181008the_force.asp

Regards,

Marshall


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[Goanet] Conversions, how acceptable?

2008-10-17 Thread marshallmendonza

Rina Mukherji wrote: 
Since conversions are obviously the root cause behind what has escalated into 
large-scale violence against innocent Christians in its wake, I feel Goanetters 
ought to read this piece from Indian Express. Mind you, not all Christian 
churches are into such proselytization, but there is a new crop of missions 
that makes this their agenda. It is this
that must be opposed-in the cause of secularism and peace.
Comment:
As I said before, with the threat of a ban looming large over the heads of the 
VHP and BD, Operation Cover- Up or Operation Whitewash is in full swing. We 
have aleady seen articles by hindutvawadis like Francois Gauntier, S Gurumurthy 
and now Sudheendra Kulkarni whose affiliation and loyalties to the sangh 
parivar is well known. It is interesting how the violence in Orissa, Karnataka, 
MP, Tamil Nadu, Kerala and elsewhere against Christians is being tried to be 
obfuscated by diverting the debate and attention from the violence itself to a 
non-issue.

1.the main debate should be whether any one in this country can take law into 
their own hands and indulge in violence of rape, murder, destruction, 
terrorising a minority group.
2.the debate should also include the issue of banning the VHP and BD which have 
proved to be no better than terrorist organisations. Their track record is 
there for all to see. The only reason why they escaped a ban so far is because 
they are tied to the apron strings of the BJP and the Congress lacks spine.
3.Conversion is a non issue. Freedom of Religion is guaranteed by the 
Constitution of India and is one of the fundamental rights.
4.Conversion is a non-issue because the population of christians in India have 
in fact been showing a steady decline from 2.6% to 2.3%.
5. Conversion is a non-issue because there has not been a SINGLE reported case 
nor conviction anywhere in India despite anti-conversion laws for OVER 60 YEARS.
5.None of the writers like Sudheendra Kulkarni or Francois Gauntier or 
Gurumurthy have been able to provide any statistics or evidence or proofs to 
support their arguments.
6.The real truth is that with education, healthcare, hospitals,etc. the 
missionaries have uplifted the poor and marginalised sections and this 
threatens the domination of vested groups who exploited them for generations. 
These vested groups then use the poor and tribals themselves as their fodder in 
their nefarious gameplan.
7.It is also interesting that these writers do not find anything amiss when the 
poor and tribals are forced under threat of death to renounce christianity and 
embrace hinduism.

The following articles by eminent personalities which have already been posted 
earlier on Goanet but which are relevant to this discussion are appended below.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Opinion/Columnists/Shashi_Tharoor/Respect_an_individuals_decision/articleshow/3561097.cms
Respect an individual's decision by Shashi Tharoor 
Stop this Politics of Hate
http://209.85.175.104/search?q=cache:tjHIY6dFQPMJ:timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Opinion/Columnists/Shashi_Tharoor/SHASHI_ON_SUNDAY/Stop_the_politics_of_division/articleshow/msid-3585029,curpg-2.cms+stop+this+politics+of+division+shashi+tharoorhl=enct=clnkcd=2gl=in
Hindu Fundamentals are under attack
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Opinion/Columnists/Shashi_Tharoor/SHASHI_ON_SUNDAY/Hindu_fundamentals_are_under_attack/articleshow/3535323.cms
http://sidhusaaheb.blogspot.com
The Communal Psyche- Hapless Christians Handy for Minority Bashing by Dipankar 
Gupta
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/LEADER_ARTICLE_Two_Sides_Of_The_Same_Coin/rssarticleshow/3578075.cms
Two Sides Of The Same Coin by  Harbans Mukhia (Times of India dt. 10.10.2008)
Faith no more by Khushwant Singh
http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage/StoryPage.aspx?id=064bbc98-99b7-4272-8245-7fc5090f7247
 
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Editorial/Dont_Target_Converts/articleshow/3571221.cms
 
Don't Target Converts  by Michael Pinto
An old testament by George Menezes
http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage/StoryPage.aspx?sectionName=id=4127c514-6f85-41f4-bebb-95f81738c492MatchID1=4814TeamID1=6TeamID2=1MatchType1=1SeriesID1=1212PrimaryID=4814Headline=An+old+testament
http://www.outlookindia.com/fullprint.asp?choice=2fodname=20081013fname=Column+Neelabh+%28F%29sid=1
The Crucifixion of Words by Neelabh Mishra
http://www.outlookindia.com/fullprint.asp?choice=2fodname=20081006fname=bajrangdalsid=1
   
Frankenstein’s Monsters by B Raman
http://www.cbcisite.com/cbcinews2463.htm
Why extremist Hindus attack Christians by Bishop Agnelo Gracias
http://news.in.msn.com/national/article.aspx?cp-documentID=1675049
Maoists take credit for killing VHP leader- Source: Indo-Asian News Service
http://indiatoday.digitaltoday.in/index.php?option=com_contenttask=viewid=16652Itemid=1issueid=74sectionid=36limit=1limitstart=0
The rogue army by Farzand Ahmed  
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/13/world/asia/13india.html?_r=1emoref=slogin

It is very

[Goanet] Rina Mukherji sheds a blinding new light on Orissa violence

2008-10-17 Thread marshallmendonza

Santosh Helekar wrote:

Ms. Fernandes raises very good points. She also appears to have corrected an
inaccuracy that was propagated in this forum, namely that a nun was burned to
death. The truth is that she was a Hindu girl. In either case it is an
atrocity. But journalists and activists should have some respect for the whole
truth.

Comment: Initial reports emanating from troubled Orissa attributed to police
sources reported that a nun was burnt to death. Refer
http://www.mail-archive.com/goanet@lists.goanet.org/msg34171.html

Subsequently another report came out again attributed to police sources but not
confirming the identity of the person as a nun or not. Refer extract:
CHRISTIAN WOMAN TEACHER REPORTED BURNT ALIVE: A Christian woman
teacher, possibly a nun [BUT NOT CONFIRMED], was reported burnt alive
on 25th August 2008 by a group of Vishwa Hindu Parishad mob which
stormed the orphanage she ran in the district of Bargarh (Orissa).
Police Superintendent Ashok Biswall has told this to news reporters. A
priest who was at the orphanage was also badly hurt and is now being
treated in hospital for multiple burns.
http://www.mail-archive.com/goanet@lists.goanet.org/msg34386.html

Thereafter once some of the victims were brought to Bombay for treatment, the
full facts came out. Refer
http://www.mail-archive.com/goanet@lists.goanet.org/msg34945.html
http://www.daijiworld.com/news/news_disp.asp?n_id=50752n_tit=Orissa+Victims+Narrate+Heart%2Drending+Sufferings

Rajni Majhi (girl who was burnt in the incident),
was one of the girls who was actually adopted. But she was ill-treated
when the couple which adopted her conceived a boy. Rajni was a very
active girl in the orphanage and good in sports. She was doing
graduation and had even represented at university level sports
competitions. She was like a leader in the orphanage, he explained

http://www.mail-archive.com/goanet@lists.goanet.org/msg34927.html

Perhaps Santosh missed out this news item. All the same, does the gravity of
the crime become less because the victim was not a nun or a christian? In fact
when I read about the background of this poor victim, I felt miserable that she
had to die in such a horrible way at the hands of her co-religionists all in
the name of religion which they were supposed to be 'protecting'.

Regards,

Marshall

[Goanet] A Moratorium On Conversions: Who Decides?

2008-10-17 Thread marshallmendonza

A very thought provoking article on the recent articles calling for a debate on 
conversions.
http://www.ccbi.in/viewnews.php?action=viewmorevalue=2095

Regards,

Marshall


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[Goanet] Catholic violence in Goa (attack on Aires)

2008-10-14 Thread marshallmendonza

Marlon Menezes wrote:
I am very sad to hear about this attack on Aires. I guess such violence in Goa 
is ok so long as it is initiated by Catholics. If I recall correctly, similar 
violence was threatened on legitimate business entities during the Da Vinci 
Code saga in Goa. 
Comment:
Violence of any kind whether initiated by a Catholic or a Hindu or Muslim or 
Parsi or Sikh or Buddhist or Jew or Capitalist or Communist or Atheist or 
Agnostic or any other label left out is condemnable.The culprits should be 
arrested, tried and severely punished if found guilty. Violence has no place in 
civil society. And the earlier we all stand firm and speak out against violence 
and injustice, the better it will be for this country which seems to be slowly 
degenerating into chaos all of our own making.It is upto us to either light a 
candle or curse the darkness.

Regards,

Marshall



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[Goanet] Kandhamal violence-is it communal?

2008-10-14 Thread marshallmendonza

1.S Gurumurthy says in his article on the Kandhamal violence that it was not
against christians but between Kandhas and Panas. Refer below what the Chief
Minister of Orissa who is a partner in the coalition government with BJP has to
say in an interview with Barkha Dutt of NDTV

Bajrang Dal is a fundamentalist outfit: Orissa CM
Barkha Dutt
Tuesday, October 14, 2008, (New Delhi)
At the meeting of national integration council on Monday, BJP chief Rajnath
Singh described the Bajrang Dal as a nationalist group. But now Orissa Chief
Minister and NDA partner Naveen Patnaik says the Bajrang Dal is a
fundamentalist outfit.
Speaking exclusively to NDTV, Patnaik said many of those arrested for
anti-Christian violence in the state were from the Bajrang Dal.
But he refused to comment directly on a possible ban, saying he will only react
when the Centre takes a final stand.
He clarified that none of the letters sent by the Home Ministry mention Article
355. President's rule in Orissa would be political misuse, he said.
Patnaik said that the Centre sent ten companies of trainees when we asked for
help. Home Ministry sent helicopters five days late, he added.
Orissia Chief Minister's admission is likely to fuel the debate over banning
the Sangh Parivar outfit.
On Saturday, in an exclusive interview to NDTV, National Security Advisor M K
Naraynan said SIMI and Bajrang Dal are not two sides of the same coin, but
both of them are dangerous. He added that You can ban it (Bajrang Dal) but
you will then not be able to sustain it.
Thereafter, several political leaders reacted to the NSA's observations.
Railway Minister Lalu Prasad Yadav said the NSA spoke like a bureaucrat, while
the Opposition said the instance showed there were differences of opinion in
the government.

2.Christian missionaries are being regularly accused of 'forced conversions'
without adducing any proof or evidence. And without a single case or conviction
since the past 60 years. Refer to article below by Sampad Mahapatra of NDTV on
christians being forced to renounce their religion under threat of death.

Scared Christians in Kandhmal turn to Hinduism
Sampad Mahapatra
Tuesday, October 14, 2008, (Kandhmal)
On Sunday, Pope Benedict the 16th made a pointed appeal for an end to violence
against Orissa's Christian minority.

The Archbishop of Cuttack has petitioned the Supreme Court seeking CBI probe
into the Nun rape case. The Supreme Court had earlier directed the Orissa
government to protect Christians and arrange for extra security in the relief
camps.
The situation in Kandhmal, one of the worst affected districts, remains tense.
Terrorised by the communal riots and having to choose between faith and
survival, dozens of Christians in Kandhmal are embracing Hinduism, only to
ensure they get back to their homes and live in peace.
On Sunday, 18 Christians in Sarangad, who converted to Hinduism, claimed it was
purely a voluntary decision.
We were born to Christian parents and stuck to the faith for so long. But we
have realised we get nothing out of being Christians. So we decided to return
to Hinduism. No body has forced it on us, said Krishna Chandra Nayak, former
Christian, Sarangad.
Under the Orissa Freedom of Religion Act of 1967, anyone seeking religious
conversion needs to apply to the Collector and wait for proper police
verification to ensure it is not being done under coercion or inducement.

But in Kandhmal on Tuesday the rules are different. You have to apply only to
the local VHP head in a prescribed format and the wish will be quickly granted.
These people had on their own given a written undertaking that they had joined
the Christian faith but now they want to return to Hindu fold. I am only
catering to their wishes, said Adikand Patra, Hindu priest.

The 12,000-odd Christians, who are still in relief camps fear they will be
killed if they don't become Hindus. But the state government has done little to
allay such fears.

Regards,

Marshall

[Goanet] VOA News - Pope Benedict Creates 4 Saints, Denounces ReligiousViolence

2008-10-13 Thread marshallmendonza

Ruby Goes wrote:
Hi Cyber Marshall. Would anyone set up a GOANET FUND to which we could 
contribute money for Christians made homeless by the  violence perpetrated 
against them by Hindutva demogogues and their henchmen? The victims require 
food, stoves,baby food, clothing, healthcare, school-fees and therapy just like 
the rest of us. Their lives must be hell whether they're hiding in forests or 
living in refugee camps. TIME TO PUT OUR MONEY WHERE ARE MOUTHS ARE. WHAT SAY 
GOANET READERS? Thanks.
Response:
Contribution in cash or kind can be sent to:-
Caritas-Goa A/c No. 18046 ( with a note that the amount is meant for the 
victims of Orissa violence)
The donations may be sent to 
Caritas Goa
Institute Piedade,
Near hotel Mandovi,
Panjim

Regards,

Marshall


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[Goanet] Kandhamal violence-is it communal?

2008-10-13 Thread marshallmendonza

I refer to the article Orissa violence*Kandhamal and Bengaluru** by S 
Gurumurthy  posted by Rina Mukherji 

I would like to pose a few questions to Rina since she thought it fit to post 
such an article:

1. Do you agree or endorse the views of the author? If yes, why?
2. Do you condone the violence against christians in Orissa, Karnataka, Kerala, 
Tamil Nadu, MP and elsewhere? Or do you believe that such violence has not / is 
not taking place but is merely a figment of everyone's imagination? 
3. Do you believe that the violent activities of the VHP / BD are good for the 
country? If yes, why? 
4. Do you endorse or support the idea of taking law into one's own hands and 
administering real or perceived justice?
5. Can you provide official data, facts,evidence, proofs, statistics to support 
the contention of the author?
6. Do you support the hindutva ideology that christian and muslim minorities 
can only live as second class citizens of this nation?

I look forward to your response.

Regards,

Marshall




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[Goanet] Fwd: Kandhamal violence-is it communal?

2008-10-13 Thread marshallmendonza


2008/10/13 Santosh Helekar [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 Good to see another broader perspective on this problem being posted here.

Comment:
With the threat of being banned looming large over the VHP and BD, and the heat 
coming close to the BJP with nowhere to hide, we should not be surprised to see 
more of such theories and articles floating around. Operation whitewash is in 
full swing. I will not be surprised if we are informed next that Pravin Togadia 
was on a peace mission in Orissa 'dousing' fires. And as for the simultaneous 
violence in Mangalore, Tamil Nadu, Kerala, MP and elsewhere we will soon be 
told that it is mere figment of our imagination and that the VHP / BD were in 
fact protecting the christians, and that it was the victims themselves who 
inflicted the violence on themselves to attract sympathy.

And we will have posts applauding such 'broader perspectives'. No matter there 
is no rationale or evidence to support such views or that facts point out to 
the contrary.For those who wish to believe what they wish and those who wish to 
live in denial, they will continue to do so. But all of us are not suckers to 
fall for such stories!!!

Regards,

Marshall


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[Goanet] Stop the politics of division by Shashi Tharoor

2008-10-12 Thread marshallmendonza


This article by Shashi Tharoor is one of the most beautiful articles I have 
read in a long long time. I wish we had more Shashi Tharoor's around instead of 
Francois Gauntier's or S Gurumurthy's. The world is poorer by not electing him 
as the UN Secretary General just like the Nobel Peace Prize was the poorer in 
it not being granted to Mahatma Gandhi one of the tallest and most deserving 
persons in the last century.

Regards,

Marshall

Stop the politics of division-Shashi Tharoor(Times of India dt.12.10.2008)  
 
Last week, in responding to some of the hundreds of reactions i received to my 
September 28 column on the anti-Christian violence in Orissa and Ka 
rnataka, i tackled the vexed question of conversions to Christianity, which 
many readers argued constituted a provocation for the violence. But the 
conversion issue is not purely a religious one: behind it lies a profoundly 
political question, one which goes to the heart of the nature of the Indian 
state, and indeed to the very idea of India itself. 

In my original piece i argued that violence is part of a contemptible political 
project whose closest equivalent can in fact be found in the 'Indian 
Mujahideen' bomb blasts. Both actions are anti-national; both aim to divide the 
country by polarising people along their religious identities; and both hope to 
profit politically from such polarisation. In this context, the issue of 
conversion becomes a diversion. Because to say that conversions are somehow 
inherently wrong would accord legitimacy to the rhetoric of the Bajrang Dal and 
its cohorts - who declare openly that conversions from Hinduism to any other 
faith are anti-national. Implicit is the idea that to be Hindu is somehow more 
natural, more authentically Indian, than to be anything else, and that to lapse 
from Hinduism is to dilute one's identification with the motherland. 

As a Hindu, I reject that notion utterly. I reject the presumption that the 
purveyors of hatred speak for all or even most Hindus. Hinduism, we are 
repeatedly told, is a tolerant faith. The central tenet of tolerance is that 
the tolerant society accepts that which it does not understand and even that 
which it does not like, so long as it is not sought to be imposed upon the 
unwilling. One cannot simultaneously extol the tolerance of Hinduism and attack 
Christian homes and places of worship. 

And as an Indian, i would argue that the whole point about India is the 
rejection of the idea that religion should be a determinant of nationhood. Our 
nationalist leaders never fell into the insidious trap of agreeing that, since 
Partition had established a state for Muslims, what remained was a state for 
Hindus. To accept the idea of India you have to spurn the logic that divided 
the country in 1947. Your Indianness has nothing to do with which God you 
choose to worship, or not. 


To suggest that an Indian Hindu becoming Christian is an anti-national act not 
only insults the millions of patriotic Indians who trace their Christianity to 
more distant forebears, including the Kerala Christians whose families 
converted to the faith of Saint Thomas centuries before the ancestors of many 
of today's Hindu chauvinists even learned to think of themselves as Hindu. It 
is an insult, too, to the national leaders, freedom fighters, educationists, 
scientists, military men, journalists and sportsmen of the Christian faith who 
have brought so much glory to the country through their actions and sacrifices. 
It is, indeed, an insult to the very idea of India. Nothing could be more 
anti-national than that. 

One reader, Raju Rajagopal, writing as a fellow Hindu, expressed himself 
trenchantly in describing 'terrorism' and 'communal riots' as two sides of the 
same coin, which systematically feed on each other. The only difference, he 
added, is that the first kind of terrorism is being unleashed by a fanatical 
few who swear no allegiance to the idea of India, whereas the second kind of 
terror is being unleashed by those who claim to love India more dearly than you 
and i, who are part of the electoral politics of India, and who know the exact 
consequences of their actions: creating deep fissures between communities, 
whose horrific consequences the world has witnessed once too often in recent 
decades. 

That is the real problem here. Nehru had warned that the communalism of the 
majority was especially dangerous because it could present itself as 
nationalist. Yet, Hindu nationalism is not Indian nationalism. And it has 
nothing to do with genuine Hinduism either. A reader bearing a Christian name 
wrote to tell me that when his brother was getting married to a Hindu girl, the 
Hindu priest made a point of saying to him before the ceremony words to the 
effect of: When i say God, i don't mean a particular God. As this reader 
commented: It's at moments like that that i can't help but feel proud to be 
Indian and to be moved by its religiosity - even though i'm

[Goanet] Banning Bajrang Dal - Political compulsions

2008-10-11 Thread marshallmendonza

Law and order, life and death, right and wrong are no longer simple 
straightforward decisions in a civil society. Decisions are sometimes infuenced 
by poliyical compulsions. Read article in Outlook.

http://www.outlookindia.com/fullprint.asp?choice=2fodname=20081020fname=Orissa+%28F%29sid=1

Regards,

Marshall


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[Goanet] Hapless Christians handy for minority bashing

2008-10-11 Thread marshallmendonza

I refer to the article written by Dipankar Gupta posted by Hartman D'Souza
Dipankar writes:
What such analysts should ask is: Why don't these Hindutva activists go to
Nagaland or somewhere else where Christians are in a majority and show us
their nationalist derring- do there? Why is it that they are only active
where their safety is guaranteed? In places where there is no administrative
encouragement, sanction or connivance, Hindutva activists, of whatever
description, dare not strike any minority community.

This is why such attacks take place largely in BJP run areas like Gujarat ,
Rajasthan, Karnataka or Orissa. Wherever Hindutva presence is built into the
state administrative system, saffron forces are assured that every ethnic
attack will be like a picnic. Even as L. K. Advani, Rajnath Singh and BJP
national leaders assembled on September 14 in Bangalore , 16 churches were
attacked in Dakshina Kannada, Chikmaglur and Udupi.

Comment:
I am reminded of an anecdote narrated by Julio Ribeiro former DGP and
Commissioner of Police, Bombay. During his commissionership, the Shiv Sena was
creating havoc and law and order problems. So Ribeiro hit upon an idea. After
arresting a large number of shiv sena goons, he instructed his deputy to enrol
them in the army and send them immediately to the Indo-Pak border. All this
within earshot of the arrested goons. The goons literally started sg in
their pants. They immediately pleaded their regrets and assured to keep out of
trouble. Such was their bravery. Thereafter, Ribeiro had very little trouble
from them. They feared him so much.

Apart from the anecdote, it is a fact that the right wing extremists are yellow
right through. Vajpayee pleaded with the british to be let out of prison when
all other freedom fighters were courting arrest. Savarkar gave a letter in
writing to the british to keep away from the freedom struggle in lieu of his
being freed from prison. Thereafter his main object was to fight the muslims.
During emergency the RSS chief Balasaheb Deoras begged Indira Gandhi to release
him stating that the RSS was a cultural organisation and would keep away from
politics.

Wherever the state governments are firm, the sangh parivar behave themselves.
Look at West Bengal, Tripura, Kerala, Bihar. Bihar despite having a large
muslim population has been untouched by communal trouble right through Lalu
Prasad's tenure of 15 years and now under Nitish Kumar.Kerala and West Bengal
too have large muslim populations and have been largely peaceful. One will
usually find communal trouble in BJP ruled states like Gujarat, MP, Rajasthan,
Chhatisgarh,Karnataka, Orissa because the state administration is hand in
gloves with the goons. Congress ruled ruled states generally lack spine.They
allow minorities to be targetted because they feel that the minorities will
then turn to them for suuport and protection.

Regards,

Marshall

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[Goanet] An interesting article

2008-10-10 Thread marshallmendonza


Mario Goviea wrote:
Unfortunately, Francois Gautier is like a drive-by attacker - he hits and then 
he runs and hides.
I have had to rebutt his bile before, and the reprobate never responds.
However, instead of questioning Anil's motives and bloviating on Goanet where 
he will never see what you think, why haven't more of you written directly to 
him and systematically demolished his absurd and fact-free ideas?  That is 
precisely why I had included his email address when I posted my response to him.

Comment:
I must congratulate you for your very succint post to Francois Gautier. I am 
not surprised that he never replies. He just cannot. He doesn't have legs to 
stand on. This is typical of all these hindutvawadis. They thrive on 
brainwashed minds. However, I was a bit surprised to find Dr Anil Desai posting 
such thrash. I somehow expected something better from him. He too has yet to 
respond to the questions I placed before him. This time I will not be surprised 
if he too runs and hides.

Regards,

Marshall



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[Goanet] Build up Zero Chances within Zero Tolerance

2008-10-10 Thread marshallmendonza

Dr. U. G. Barad wrote:
Writer appears to be pouring his venom towards Hindus in Goa and equally
says he does not except GIFT!! What as joke!!!
Comment:
1.I was not aware that Dr Barad represents all the Hindus of Goa. Thank you for 
this invaluable information. Where he saw the venom in his infertile mind is 
best known to him.

Dr UGB wrote:
...when he has already accepted the gift..and not even had the courtesy to
thank or otherwise for the wonderful gift he received??
Comment:
Please do not speak in riddles. I am too dense to understand. I would 
appreciate if you could kindly put it in plain simple language.

Dr UGB wrote:
I request Goanet members not to chop his writing until he drains his
intellectual weight? 
Comment:
Sorry, I do not understand your pharmalogical english. Pl speak in English 
english.

Dr UGB wrote:
The writer needs to be given a long rope.and only there after..!!!???
Comment:
Is this a threat?

This is my last post on this thread. I do not wish to waste my time and that of 
other goanetters on inane matters. Let sleeping dogs lie.

Regards,

Marshall

 


 

 

 

[Goanet] Build up 


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[Goanet] Two Sides Of The Same Coin- article on communalism by HarbansMukhia

2008-10-10 Thread marshallmendonza

I saw this very thought provoking article in the Times. Thought of sharing with 
you. The reason for the violence against christians/ minorities has little to 
do with religion or ' conversions'. It is all about power and getting votes. 
That is the reason for increase in religious strife just few months before the 
next general election. Religious minorities are fair bait for both the main 
players.Expendable and collateral damage.

Regards,

Marshall

Two Sides Of The Same Coin by  Harbans Mukhia (Times of India dt. 10.10.2008)
 
On the communalism front, two divergent yet complementary strategies seem to be 
under way in India, both inspired by utter contempt for the nation's  
democratic polity as well as for the country's historical and cultural 
traditions: one envisioned and undertaken by the sangh parivar, the other by 
the various arms of minority communalism. 

On the one hand, the sangh parivar, working through its myriad branches, has 
learnt its lesson well from the Nazi experiment: gradually, spread communalism 
in society's nooks and corners, come to power in the states, and, under the 
government's protection go all out to wreak on the social fabric, an 
unambiguous, aggressive communal divide. 

Using their various organisations like the RSS and the Bajrang Dal, they 
unleash vicious and often wild propaganda against the minorities and organise 
riots, kill people and demolish properties. The perpetrators move with the 
confidence that when the state acts it will be on their behalf. 

The law of the land is the last concern on their minds. Indeed, Narendra Modi 
has demonstrated through the travesty of truth that goes under the name of the 
Nanavati commission that law should be treated like an ass. Once you have 
succeeded in creating durable fissures in society through long, sustained hard 
work, political power follows in its wake even in a free and fair election. 
Elections won, the rule of law can be laughed at in different forums. The 
parivar has had to effect an improvement on the Nazi experiment here: it can 
claim electoral legitimacy for all its illegitimate actions. But the essence is 
the same - power remains the central feature. Law will always be its servant. 
If some day the parivar were to capture full control of the state in New Delhi, 
all its virulent constituents could be given free run. 

Minority communalism, on the other hand, does not go by any of these pretences. 
Terror is its chosen weapon. The more the parivar succeeds in marginalising and 
punishing the minorities by using the state's organs, the more legitimacy it 
creates in the minds of militancy's adherents and followers. Even its failure 
to create widespread communal tensions by carrying out terror strikes on 
temples, mosques, bazaars and streets does not seem to deter it. Its strategy 
is to persevere in this endeavour and wait for simmering tensions to grow until 
they reach a tipping point. Conversely, militancy of the minority in turn lends 
force to the parivar. It is thus that the parivar and militant minority 
communalism are each other's firmest allies. 

But then minority communalism is not the by-product of the sangh parivar's 
politics alone, even though militancy may have been fed by the parivar's 
stridency. Indeed, it has a much longer history, although it does not go back 
to India's five and a half medieval centuries, when the Muslims ruled over much 
of the land. In fact, this period was remarkably free of communal rioting, as 
we understand the phenomenon today. 

The first recorded riot occurred in 1693 in Ahmedabad, when Muslim rule was 
nearing its end, and the whole of the eighteenth century was witness to five 
cases of rioting. In the later nineteenth century and especially in the 
twentieth, on the one hand a siege mentality grew among Muslims and on the 
other the freedom struggle, which mobilised masses of people, reinforced the 
siege mentality. This resulted in the country's partition. 

Since independence, such an attitude has found strength in various sources and 
challenges from none. If there was the constant RSS-Jan Sangh and subsequent 
BJP threat, the Congress has revelled in keeping this threat alive to corner 
the Muslim vote. The community's own leadership too had a strong stake in 
indulging in rhetoric, and its liberal leaders never tired of crying themselves 
hoarse at the supposed decline of Urdu, etc. 

The Left, ideologically most well-equipped to contest communalism, made a very 
questionable distinction between majority and minority communalism on the plea 
that the former alone was capable of turning fascist. Hence one could overlook 
the latter. In the process, it ignored the integral link between the two, with 
one feeding off the other. The result: the Left could effectively challenge 
neither. 

Today, as a feeling of helplessness of the state and the citizens seems to 
stare us in the face, the writing appears on the wall highlighting two

[Goanet] Build up Zero Chances within Zero Tolerance

2008-10-09 Thread marshallmendonza

Dr. U. G. Barad wrote:
Marshall, Goanet is not owned by me to dictate my terms. If it was, you
would have got a best gift from me, which unfortunately got rejected at
moderation. 
Comment:
Dear Dr Barad, unfortunately I do not accept gifts especially from people I do 
not know personally. And in the case of a hardcore hindutvawadi, a definite no. 
I would however, accept a gift of peace and harmony were you to advise this to 
your kinsmen in the VHP / BD who are still creating havoc in Orissa and 
elsewhere. And as for your best gift which was rejected by the moderators, 
please keep it for yourself. You most deserve it.

Regards,

Marshall






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[Goanet] Nature of justice in Modi's Gujarat

2008-10-09 Thread marshallmendonza

After receiving strictures after strictures from the Supreme Court of India and 
the National Human Rights Commission for sabotaging and thwarting the 
dispensation of justice, see an analysis of the Report of the Nanavati- Shah 
Commission which was appointed by the Gujarat govt and which has whitewashed 
all the transgressions of the sangh parivar. These are indeed interesting times 
in which we live.
http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/thscrip/print.pl?file=20081024252103300.htmdate=fl2521/prd=fline;

Regards,

Marshall


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[Goanet] Guilty until proven innocent by Praful Bidwai

2008-10-09 Thread marshallmendonza

Pl see Article on the plight of minorities in India which appeared in Frontline 
magazine.
http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/thscrip/print.pl?file=20081024252109600.htmdate=fl2521/prd=fline;

Regards,

Marshall


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[Goanet] An interesting article

2008-10-08 Thread marshallmendonza

Comment:
This is with reference to the article 'What made Hindus angry in Karnataka 'by
François Gautier posted by Dr Anil Desai. I may offer the foll comments:
Francois Gautier is a self confessed hindutva sympathizer. Hence, the write up
is as expected - devoid of facts, evidence, proofs. Full of rhetoric. Low on
credibility. High on propaganda. Stuff that excites lumpen elements and diehard
communalists.
Let me point out some of his absurdities:
1. He writes But when furious Hindus, tired of being made fun of, of
witnessing their brothers and sisters converted by financials traps, of
seeing a 84-year-old swami and his Mataji brutally murdered, of reading
blasphemy about their Gods, vent their anger against churches, many of them
makeshifts, the Indian government goes after the soft target which the
Hindus are.
Comment:If the matter was not serious, this would be laughable. First of all
Maoists have taken responsibility for the crime. Secondly, who has given
authority to the VHP /BD to take law into their hands and indulge in violence
of the scale unheard of. And he calls such elements 'soft targets'. Is it worth
for anyone to respond at all to such articles?
2. He writes:' But what really angered local Hindus was when Newlife went one
step further and published a book in Kannada — Satya Darshini — which was
widely distributed by its missionaries. Here below is the translation of some
of the most abusive passages: Urvashi — the daughter of Lord Vishnu — is a
prostitute.'
Comment:
a. New life has disowned the book and has gone on record that it was not
published by them
b. It is not beyond the dirty tricks dept of VHP / BD to publish such
literature with a view to forment trouble.
c. even for arguments sake, say the book was published by Newlife, there exists
a law of the land. Complaints could have been filed with the police.Can anyone
in this country feeling aggrieved take law into their own hands and determine
who is innocent and who is guilty? Isn't this a form of terrorism? And why were
catholic churches attacked including the convent of the cloistered nuns?
3.He writes:'in the Tamil Nadu coastal belt from Chennai to Kanyakumari, there
must be now 10 per cent Christians posttsunami and the same may be true in
other parts of south India.
Comment:
He needs to support his arguments with official data and facts. Otherwise his
arguments carry no weight. Even otherwise, conversion is not illegal. If he has
any complaints about force or fraud being used in conversions has he brought
this to the notice of the authorities?

Finally I would like to ask Dr Anil Desai since he posted this article-
1. does he agree with the views expressed by Francois Gautier?
2. Does he approve of the violence that took place in Orissa, Karnataka and
other places?
3. does his ideology permit the use of violence?
4. would he approve and support similar incidents were they to happen in Goa?

Regards,

Marshall

[Goanet] Frankenstein's Monsters - Bajrang Dal

Here is an interesting article which appeared in the Outlook and takes a look 
at the Bajrang Dal. Incidentally the author's writings generally tilt towards 
the Hindu right.

http://www.outlookindia.com/fullprint.asp?choice=2fodname=20081006fname=bajrangdalsid=1

Regards,

Marshall


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[Goanet] The Crucifixion Of Words - debate on violence

Reading this article I realise how close it is to the truth and reality even 
here on Goanet.

http://www.outlookindia.com/fullprint.asp?choice=2fodname=20081013fname=Column+Neelabh+%28F%29sid=1

Regards,

Marshall


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[Goanet] Don't Target Converts - article by Michael Pinto

Don't Target Converts by Michael Pinto (Times of India dt.8.10.2008) 
 
As Orissa continues to burn and Karnataka to simmer, we are confronted once 
again with that old bogey of conversion. The allegation is that at least  
part of the blame for the violence against Christians must be laid at the door 
of the aggressive policy of conversion of some evangelical groups. Besides the 
obvious fact that no amount of provocation can justify taking the law into 
one’s own hands, this argument is particularly strange in a country that counts 
the right to preach, practise and propagate one’s religion among its 
fundamental rights enshrined in the Constitution. 

Should a civilised, tolerant society get into so personal a matter as the 
religious conviction of its citizens? After all, what is so perverse about 
conversion? If you exercise your fundamental right to preach and propagate your 
religion and someone, convinced by your arguments, comes over to your side how 
can anyone object? We are told that such changes cause unrest in society. But 
in public life we do not allow the unrest argument to prevent individuals from 
changing their loyalties or ideologies. 

The only legitimate ground on which conversion can be opposed is if it can be 
shown to have resulted from the use of force or fraud. Several states, 
including Orissa, have enacted legislation to prevent conversions by force or 
fraud or even inducement. In respect to the latter, they are on shaky ground. 
When you go to a shop and, under the terms of some promotion, you are told that 
you can buy one and get one free, is this not inducement? If this is allowed as 
a legitimate tool in commerce, it cannot be illegitimate elsewhere. But the use 
of force or fraud is anyway outlawed by the Indian Penal Code and action 
against such acts is not dependent on specific anti-conversion laws. 

Indeed, this is at the centre of the whole conversion argument. Whenever the 
topic comes up, apologists are at pains to point out that census data clearly 
show that the Christian population in percentage terms has actually fallen from 
a high of 2.6 per cent in 1971 to 2.3 per cent in 2001. This fact, while 
correct, is irrelevant. Even if the Christian population had increased 
substantially as a result of conversion, there would have been nothing wrong 
with this as long as the conversions were the result of a change of heart and 
not the use of force or fraud. 

This is where a further problem arises. While there is no question about the 
need to avoid conversion by force or fraud, the difficulty lies in adjudicating 
on this subject. So far most states, which have enacted anti-conversion 
legislation, have left it to the district magistrate (DM) to decide whether 
conversion is genuine or due to force and fraud. 

Aside from the fact that most civilised societies would hesitate to give 
sweeping \powers in such a sensitive matter to the state, the question is how 
does a DM decide on the genuineness of conversion? It is extra-ordinarily 
difficult to look into a person’s soul and decide whether it is God or Mammon 
that has dictated a particular course of action. 
At best the DM could rely on what people in the vicinity say. But that is an 
inadequate basis for such an important finding. 

The problem with anti-conversion legislation does not end here. Most Acts give 
the power to conduct enquiries into proposed conversions to the police. But in 
Himachal Pradesh, a state where Christians constitute barely 0.2 per cent of 
the population and where it would appear that such an Act was quite 
unnecessary, not only has anti-conversion legislation been put on the statute 
book but the Act lays down that the DM can authorise anybody to make such an 
enquiry. 

This is amazing because it gives the DM authority to pick and choose the person 
or body, who will make the enquiry. What is there to prevent an officer from 
handing over the enquiry to a fundamentalist organisation with an 
anti-conversion agenda? 

So we come back once again to the question: Which conversion is through force 
and fraud and which through conviction? Let there be no mistake. The person who 
converts through fraudulent means is our common enemy. But until we are able to 
establish the difference between the two through objective and easily 
identifiable criteria we will invariably end up penalising those who have a 
genuine change of heart or worse still use it as an excuse to terrorise a whole 
group of people. It is the absence of these criteria that have made existing 
legislation on the subject so ineffective. The anti-conversion Bill in Orissa 
was passed in 1967 but rules under the Act were framed only in 1999. So far no 
one has been convicted under the Act and no case has ever been filed under its 
provisions. 

But in one matter, at least, it is not difficult to nail forced conversions. 
The sinister campaign threatening Christians with the forfeiture of their 
property and the

[Goanet] Build up Zero Chances within Zero Tolerance

Laluram Salvi wrote:
In fact, with the exception of Sanatan Sanstha  men’s alleged involment in 
Malegao bomb blasts almost all terrorists attacks against our nation, and the 
civilized world, have been committed by Muslims. 
Comment:
1.First of all I thank you for coming out in the open and not hiding behind Dr 
Barad. Maybe it is time for Dr Barad too to realize not to front for others. It 
is very obvious.
2.The SS / HJS has been responsible for bomb blasts in Navi Mumbai and Malegaon 
and some of its members have been arrested. The HJS has its headquarters in Goa 
and every right thinking goan ( I hope you too will agree and support this 
move) needs to raise his voice and compel the government to treat the 
organisation as a terrorist organisation and keep tabs on its members and 
activities under close scrutiny.There have have been bomb blasts in Nanded and 
Kanpur where RSS members were assembling bombs.There have been acts of 
terrorism against the christian community in the Dangs,in Orissa, Karnataka and 
other places.It is time civil society treated these deliberate acts of violence 
as acts of terrorism which they undoubtedly are and put them on the same 
footing as other acts of violence.

LS wrote:
400,000 Kashmiri Pandits, constituting 99% of the total population of Hindus 
living in Muslim majority area of the Kashmir Valley, were forcibly pushed out 
of the Valley by Muslim terrorists, trained in Pakistan, since the end of 1989. 
They have been forced to live the life of exiles in their own country, outside 
their homeland, by unleashing a systematic campaign of terror, murder, loot and 
arson. 
Comment:
The violence in Kashmir has nothing to do with religion, though at times it 
does take a religious hue.The fight is for self determination. More muslims 
have died and suffered due to the violence in the valley. But this fact is 
conveniently glossed over by the BJP because it does not fit in with their 
scheme of things. It is true that many Kashmiri Pandits have been forced out of 
their homes and compelled to live in refugee camps. However, the BJP was in 
power for 6 years. Please tell us what did they do to enable their return home 
and to provide them security. All the BJP did was to use use them for garnering 
votes and for propaganda material. They have no sympathies for the Pandits. So 
please do not shed crocodile tears.

LS wrote:
Mahatma Gandhi began this policy of MUSLIM APPEASEMENT IN INDIA with Indira and 
Rajiv Gandhi  following this tradition the most prominent of being repulsion of 
Shah Bano divorce lawsuit and recent one not hanging of Terrorist Afzal Guru.We 
should accept the diversion of temple funds for churches and mosques, and the 
subsidy from the Hindu majoritys money to visit pilgrimages to Mecca and 
Jerusalem. 
Comment:
Only those who never participated nor contributed to India's freedom struggle 
will fail to understand the immense contribution of Gandhiji in uniting all 
sections of people in fighting the British by non-violent means and bringing a 
mighty empire to its knees. India's independence was a catalyst for the 
independence of several other countries like Ghana,Ceylon,Kenya, Tanzania, 
Zambia,Malaysia, Singapore, Burma,etc.
Rajiv Gandhi did make some mistakes as he was not a 'politician' and was guided 
by people like Arun Nehru who later turned turncoat and embraced the BJP.
It shows the communal mindset of the sangh parivar when they focus on Afzal 
Guru.Mercy petitions have been pending at the highest level for 6 years or 
more.Many of them during BJP rule. Why is the BJP not asking for the return of 
Prabhakaran of the LTTE who was responsible for the assassination of Rajiv 
Gandhi? Is it because he is not a muslim or that Rajiv Gandhi's life had no 
value for them?
Sops like subsidies for pilgrimages to Haj have done more harm to muslims than 
good. Because they are mere tokenism. Had the government invested the same 
amount in providing them good education and healthcare, they would have been 
much better off today. Incidentally, the Haj subsidy was increased during BJP 
rule. So much for double standards!!! The Christian community in AP have made a 
big mistake in accepting subsidy for pilgrimages to Jerusalem. It will give 
them minimum benefit and maximum propaganda mileage to the sangh parivar.

LS wrote:
In a landmark judgement, the Allahabad High Court on Thursday held that Muslims 
couldn’t be treated as a religious minority anymore in Uttar Pradesh.
Can Mr. Marshall give me reference that this order was stayed later. May be I 
have no idea of it.
Comment:
A small correction. The order stayed by a bench of the Allahabad HC within 24 
hours and not by the SC. Pl refer to the following links:
http://www.nerve.in/news:25350041269
http://communalism.blogspot.com/2007/04/muslims-in-up-not-minority-critical.html
http://www.sabrang.com/cc/archive/2005/nov05/cover.html
http://www.hindu.com/2007/04/07/stories/2007040707241200.htm

LS wrote:

[Goanet] Build up Zero Chances within Zero Tolerance

2008-10-06 Thread marshallmendonza

Dr. U. G. Barad wrote: 

Article 25 - 28 deals with Right to Freedom of Religion; Articles 29 - 31
deals with Cultural and Educational Rights and Article 340 deals with
Appointment of a Commission to investigate the conditions of backward
classes. read Part III of Constitution of India - from
Articles 12 - 35 dealing with Fundamental Rights and Articles 14 - 18 which
deals with Right to Equality. 

Comment:
Please ask your ghostwriter to come out in the open. I will then debate the 
matter with him.

Regards,

Marshall


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[Goanet] Build up Zero Chances within Zero Tolerance

Dr. U. G. Barad wrote:

Of late increasing blasts and waves of violence are rocking city after city
in India. After every blast or violence one or other outfits / mastermind is
named as suspect. Thereafter that case(s) is transferred from the Police to
the Anti-Terrorism Squad (ATS) and then from the ATS to the Central Bureau
of Investigation (CBI). And finally 'Operation Cover-up' takes place only
with a covert view not to punish the culprit(s). This raises the obvious
question: does continuance of intimidation indicate that our apex
investigation agencies or judiciary are not discharging their functional
duties as is required? There might be n numbers of reasons for initiating
'Operation Cover-up' as there might be equal numbers of reasons for
terrorism activities flaring up. 

Comment:
1. As an aside, I suspect this write up has been ghost written as the post does 
not carry the trade mark bad English, atrocious spellings and lack of clarity 
of the subject. However, if Dr Barad is indeed the author of this post, then 
kudos to him for the marked improvement over the previous posts. I hope he will 
maintain these standards.
2. If one has been following news reports in the media, and I mean the 
mainstream media, it would be amply clear that our police have little or no 
clue to what is happening. After every incident, under public pressure,they 
immediately jump into action and effect a number of arrests stating that they 
have nabbed the masterminds and broken the module. Until the next incident 
takes place, by which time public memory being short, the story is again 
repeated.
3. Under police torture, confessions are obtained. But since the actual 
culprits are at large, there is no stopping further incidents.
4. Bomb blasts and terrorism is not the monopoly of only Islamic terrorists. 
There are terrorists in the extreme right too who have so far not been 
investigated with the same seriousness and enthusiasm. There have been 
incidents in Kanpur, Nanded, Navi Mumbai and other places where the SS which is 
affiliated to the HJS( headquartered in Goa!!!) have been found to have a hand. 
Incidents in muslim dominated Malegaon and Hyderabad where muslims have been 
the main victims suggest deeper investigations are needed.  
Dr Barad wrote:
In a pluralistic society like ours,national identity cannot be adjudged by any 
litmus test ... This nation does not belong to any single race. This 
expression is absolutely true and in line with the Constitution of India. But 
the biggest question is: Is his government practicing what he is preaching? On 
the contrary, his government is seen pampering minorities and yet not willing 
to finalize minority related 103rd Amendment - a perfect double role strategy 
which smells dubiousness. 
Comment:  
The sangh parivar loves using the words 'pampering minorities' and 'minority 
appeasement' and as examples they point out to the Haj subsidy or declaring 
Prophet Mohammed's birthday as a public holiday. However, they gloss over the 
tax exemption given to HUF's or subsidies given by various state government for 
religious pilgrimages. eg: subsidy given by Gujarat govt to Hindu pilgrims 
going to Mansarovar.They ignore the facilities govts give in places like 
Amarnath, Shirdi, and other religious places. Further only dalits from Hindu, 
Buddhist and Sikh religions are extended state benefits. Dalits who embrace 
Islam or Christianity are immediately deprived of any benefit. So much for 
pampering!!! If one reads the Sachar Committee Report it would be amply clear 
who is being pampered. Muslims lag behind on every development parameter except 
on their numbers filling state prisons. In Gujarat POTA has been used against 
muslims but not a single hindu was arrested under POTA inspite of the genocide 
committed against muslims. 

Dr Barad wrote:
At this point, it's time to recall and read the ruling / the judgment which
was passed by Allahabad High Court.  The Allahabad High Court had held that
Muslims with 18.5 per cent of Uttar Pradesh's population in 2001 - were not
a religious minority in the state. The judgment also pronounced that state
government should treat members of the Muslim community as equal to those
belonging to the non-minority communities without discrimination in
accordance with the law. 
Comment: Dr Barad fails to mention that the order was stayed by the SC and that 
strictures were passed by the SC against the offending Judge for exceeding his 
brief and giving vent to his personal prejudices.

Dr Barad wrote:
In short, if the bill (103rd Amendment) has to see the light of the day it
has to be amended to give definitions of minorities in line with apexes
courts landmark judgments and also abolish the existing national minorities
pari passu. Such amendment once in place will obviate any confusion on the
question of minorities. 
Comment: It has been the objective and dream of the sangh parivar to reduce 
minorities in India to the status of second

[Goanet] On conversion - Respect an individual's decision by Shashi Tharoor

Here is a follow up article by Shashi Tharoor in the Times of India dt 
5.10.2008.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Opinion/Columnists/Shashi_Tharoor/Respect_an_individuals_decision/articleshow/3561097.cms

Regards,

Marshall


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[Goanet] Why Hindu extremists attack Christians - Bishop Agnelo Gracias

Here is an interesting article by Bishop Agnelo Gracias on the reasons behind 
the attacks on Christians by hindu extremists.

http://www.cbcisite.com/cbcinews2463.htm

Regards,

Marshall


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[Goanet] Maoists take onus for killing VHP leader