Re: [Goanet] Death of Goa's fields - thanks to the lack of low cost

[soter]

Marlon wrote:
"What Soter says about prices of produce is correct. But is it not the 
unchecked powers of the government that is responsible for this? It works both 
ways - sometimes in favor of the farmers and sometimes in favor of the 
consumers.  When the government imposes price controls or bans exports, the 
farmer cannot get the market price for his produce. When the government 
subsidies water usage for the farmer (mostly ground water), it encourages waste 
and a receding water table. Ditto for fertilizers, diesel fuel, electricity 
. What does not change however, is regardless of whether the government 
giveth or taketh, it always gets its cut. Unfortunately, leftists like Soter 
believe that the government is the solution, when it is in fact the main 
problem.

As far as mechanization, it has been already stated that this has not been 
implemented very successfully thanks to farm sizes being relatively small in 
Goa."

Comment:
Soter believes that the government is solution? Marlon fortunately is focussing 
only on my left hand. Thank God for once someone is ascribing a pro-government 
colour to my opinions and needs to convey this to Digu bab. 
Now marlon attributes non-implementation of mechanisation to farm sizes. Are 
xannea, Goa's agricultural lands have a varied soil strata and therefore what 
works in Ker and Morods will not work in khazans and vice versa. Not that 
gadgets are not available but have to be imported  and therefore costly. 
Government of Goa has not invested enough in research on low cost tools and 
equipment for agriculture. We depend on Kerala for its innovations.
Appears that some are raising points just to pass their time. So I will not 
repsond after this on any of this rubbish. Goa's young enlightened tribe is at 
its peak.

-Soter

Re: [Goanet] Death of Goa's fields - thanks to the lack of low cost

[soter]

Marlon wrote:
"Soter, it is not economic prosperity that is leading to the surge in diabetes 
and cardio-vascular issues, but rather ignorance about diet and health. Yet 
another misdiagnosis by Soter, who seems to be advocating a return to an age of 
poverty and ignorance instead of affluence and enlightenment. 


Comment:
So all those experts who  dub diabetes as a disease of life style are fools. It 
is this affliction with Marlon's so found affluence and enlightenment from a 
market driven economy that ensures the prosperity of diabetes and other chronic 
ailments. May the tribe of Marlon increase and may the medical fraternity 
prosper. Poor are the those who have forgotten their past and ignorant are 
those who fail to understand the truths of the ages.

-Soter

Re: [Goanet] Death of Goa's fields - thanks to the lack of low cost

[marlon menezes]

What Soter says about prices of produce is correct. But is it not the unchecked 
powers of the government that is responsible for this? It works both ways - 
sometimes in favor of the farmers and sometimes in favor of the consumers.  
When 
the government imposes price controls or bans exports, the farmer cannot get 
the 
market price for his produce. When the government subsidies water usage for the 
farmer (mostly ground water), it encourages waste and a receding water table. 
Ditto for fertilizers, diesel fuel, electricity . What does not change 
however, is regardless of whether the government giveth or taketh, it always 
gets its cut. Unfortunately, leftists like Soter believe that the government is 
the solution, when it is in fact the main problem.

As far as mechanization, it has been already stated that this has not been 
implemented very successfully thanks to farm sizes being relatively small in 
Goa.

 Marlon 





From: soter 

Mervyn wrote:
"As a former farm labourer, I can assure all here that farm work is back
breaking
and the sure path to poverty. Real economic progress comes from
industrialisation.
Green/golden rice fields should remain only in the realms of nostalgics
and dreamers."

comment:
This is typical 'town boy' argument as Pinheiro has rightly labelled it in one 
of his posts.
If it is cheap labour that was the problem then the machines have now been put 
into operation in several areas. This should fix the problem if it is so simple.
Mervyn acknowledges that farm work is back breaking  but no sooner the onions 
and potato prices increase, we have the 'town boys' screaming against price 
rice 
urging government to put curbs on exports and so on.  Farming is back breaking 
for those who become habitual with living on other people's so to say blood and 
sweat.
While we have a fast growing  tribe of blood sucker 'town boys' who sell their 
services and skills to the highest bidder in the inudstrialised market, when it 
comes to agricultural produce this very 'town boy' wants cheap labour and his 
vegetables and milk at a throw away price. For his own rare product, he will 
keep a high price but when it comes to buying his food the same parameters will 
never be acceptable to 'Town boys'. This is the hypocrisy of an urbanised 
industrial economy and its exploitative mindsets.

-Soter 

Re: [Goanet] Death of Goa's fields - thanks to the lack of low cost

[marlon menezes]

Marshal, just because Indian society frowns upon mental illness and keeps it 
behind the closet and just because the medical institutions do not have the 
resources to properly diagnose mental illness, does not mean that there is less 
of it there!

Soter, it is not economic prosperity that is leading to the surge in diabetes 
and cardio-vascular issues, but rather ignorance about diet and health. Yet 
another misdiagnosis by Soter, who seems to be advocating a return to an age of 
poverty and ignorance instead of affluence and enlightenment.

 Marlon 





From: soter 

Marshal wrote:
Incidentally, the USA and Canada among the most affluent countries in the
world have the highest number of psychiatric cases.

Comment:
Marshall, we do not need to support our case on the number of psychiatric cases 
in USA and Canada. All we need to do is measure the Goan prosperity after 
transition from farming to white collar and foreign jobs.
Goa has now been declared the diabetes capital of India. We have doctors and 
clinics flourishing at every nook and corner of the State. Even our government 
hospitals are now being turned into private super speciality hospitals. The 
pharmaceutical campanies are thriving. It is not uncommon to find a Goan with a 
by-pass or  stent or pace maker. Leave aside the cholestrol affected Goan 
trying 
to desperately fight the condition by spending thousands  in the gym. Farming 
brings you poverty but economic prosperity brings even the cardio-vascular 
surgeon to your doorstep, leave aside the bank manager from the neighbouring 
State.
-soter 

Re: [Goanet] Death of Goa's fields - thanks to the lack of low cost

[soter]

Marshal wrote:
Incidentally, the USA and Canada among the most affluent countries in the
world have the highest number of psychiatric cases.

Comment:
Marshall, we do not need to support our case on the number of psychiatric 
cases in USA and Canada. All we need to do is measure the Goan prosperity 
after transition from farming to white collar and foreign jobs.
Goa has now been declared the diabetes capital of India. We have doctors and 
clinics flourishing at every nook and corner of the State. Even our 
government hospitals are now being turned into private super speciality 
hospitals. The pharmaceutical campanies are thriving. It is not uncommon to 
find a Goan with a by-pass or  stent or pace maker. Leave aside the 
cholestrol affected Goan trying to desperately fight the condition by 
spending thousands  in the gym. Farming brings you poverty but economic 
prosperity brings even the cardio-vascular surgeon to your doorstep, leave 
aside the bank manager from the neighbouring State.
-soter 

Re: [Goanet] Death of Goa's fields - thanks to the lack of low cost

[Mervyn Lobo]

Marshall Mendonza  wrote:
> Incidentally, the USA and Canada among the most affluent countries 
> in the world have the highest number of psychiatric cases.





Marshall,
I this part of the belief system or do you have the evidence to
support your statement?

Mervyn1409Lobo

Re: [Goanet] Death of Goa's fields - thanks to the lack of low cost II

[Mervyn Lobo]

soter wrote:
> I think you are just passing your time now. Now you embark upon comparing a 
> youth in Canada with that in Goa. Is that a fair parallel you are trying to 
>draw? 


Yes, the youth in Goa wants to sell his services to the highest bidder and today
is not restricted to the highest bidder in Goa. If you want that youth to 
remain 
in 
Goa, you better open your eyes to what is available to him/her. The least thing 
s/he would want to develop is farming skills which would mean s/he retains
skills that would sustain the youth at poverty levels both in and outside Goa.

 
 

> Someone sitting in Canada is not in a position to judge our level of 
>contentment 
> and progress. Would you call farmers in Haryana, and Punjab poor? If at all 
>they 
>
> have been reduced to poverty it is the western world's introduction of 
> biotechnologically modified seed and the whole lot of fertilizers and 
>pesticides 
>
> dumped on developing countries. India's 'geen revolution' based on western 
> agricultural sciences was the beginning of disaster. 



I spent the last week in N. India. The poverty there is sickening. Peasants and
farmers are walking around like living skeletons, looking for work.


> I am sorry, as you say we live in different worlds and we are happy in our 
> world. We do not measure our progress in dollars and pounds. Money is not 
> everything for us.


I get it. You go to work for altruistic reasons.


> So, I close this topic here as we have better things to do.

For a moment there I was unsure if you had any points to defend. 
I wish you luck on your "better things."


Mervyn1408Lobo

[Goanet] Death of Goa's fields - thanks to the lack of low cost

[Marshall Mendonza]

Soter:
I am sorry, as you say we live in different worlds and we are happy in our
world. We do not measure our progress in dollars and pounds. Money is not
everything for us.
Comment:
 It is useful to remember that money isn’t everything. There are many things
that cannot be had for money. Here’s an inspirational passage from the
writer Arne Garborg that hits the nail on the head:

"It is said that for money you can have everything, but you cannot.

   - You can buy food, but not appetite;
   -  medicine, but not health;
   -  knowledge, but not wisdom;
   -  glitter, but not beauty;
   -  fun, but not joy;
   - acquaintances, but not friends;
   -  servants, but not faithfulness;
   -  leisure, but not peace.
   - You can have the husk of everything for money, but not the kernel."

The essence of virtually any enjoyable activity depends on non-monetary
factors. Here are a few more comparisons that came to mind:

   - You can buy a college degree, but not an education
   - You can buy insurance, but not safety
   - You can buy jokes, but not laughter
   - You can buy a bed, but not sleep
   - You can buy a house, but not a home

Incidentally, the USA and Canada among the most affluent countries in the
world have the highest number of psychiatric cases.

Regards,

Marshall

Re: [Goanet] Death of Goa's fields - thanks to the lack of low cost

[soter]

Mervyn wrote:
"Here in Canada, a teenager, working at his first job, can earn 1 lakh rupees
PER MONTH. That kind of income would still leave him at poverty levels.
Any farmer with an ANNUAL income of 1 lakh rupees can only be living
a life of sustenance. For economic progress, one needs savings."

Comment:
I think you are just passing your time now. Now you embark upon comparing a 
youth in Canada with that in Goa. Is that a fair parallel you are trying to 
draw? 
Someone sitting in Canada is not in a position to judge our level of 
contentment and progress. Would you call farmers in Haryana, and Punjab poor? 
If at all they have been reduced to poverty it is the western world's 
introduction of biotechnologically modified seed and the whole lot of 
fertilizers and pesticides dumped on developing countries. India's 'geen 
revolution' based on western agricultural sciences was the beginning of 
disaster. 
I am sorry, as you say we live in different worlds and we are happy in our 
world. We do not measure our progress in dollars and pounds. Money is not 
everything for us.
So, I close this topic here as we have better things to do.

Soter

Re: [Goanet] Death of Goa's fields - thanks to the lack of low cost

[Mervyn Lobo]

soter wrote:

I know a woman from Pondataluka who just makes a living by growing 'Zaieo' 
flowers and vegetables and has an annual income of around 1 lakh.  She has 
educated 3 children who have also graduated but continue to help her.
I know a farmer in Mapusa whose 2 sons have graduated and continue in farming 
and are among the progressive farmers leading the farmers movement .
I just cannot understand from where you have gathered this idea that 
agriculture 

spells poverty. Which economy and agricultural policy are you talking about?
--


-soter,
We live on the same planet but in different worlds.

Here in Canada, a teenager, working at his first job, can earn 1 lakh rupees
PER MONTH. That kind of income would still leave him at poverty levels.
Any farmer with an ANNUAL income of 1 lakh rupees can only be living
a life of sustenance. For economic progress, one needs savings.


To answer your last question, I am talking about the agriculture policy of 
any country or economy. All I ask is you to show me an economy that is
progressing because of its great agricultural policy. 


Mervyn1395Lobo

Re: [Goanet] Death of Goa's fields - thanks to the lack of low cost

[soter]

Mervyn wrote:
"Now let me try and make my point as clear as I can. Hunting, gathering and
farming are occupations for those with little or no education. Those who 
have

to make their living from these activities, are in economic hardships. Those
who have moved away from these activities have a better chance of economic
prosperity. The bottom line is that I have yet to see an economy that is
prospering because of its great agricultural policy."

Comment:

Jumbo Bwana. I am really ashamed to read such claims from a someone who grew 
up in Africa. It is my childhood in Africa and particularly the taste of 
kitchen gardening in my school curriculam there that gave me my first taste 
for the subject and my deep love for nature. Leave aside my great days 
thereafter in Goa with my grandmother who cultivated a cart load of onions 
and the famous Aldona chillies besides paddy and nachni and other 
vegetables. I have never witnessed any poverty. Do labour toiling in 
factories not experience hardship?
Hiware Bazar in Ahmednagar district is one village which is 100% agriculture 
had as many as 50 millionaires 2 years ago. A village which receives just 2 
inches of rainfall per annum and was in abject poverty and drunkenness 15 
years ago is today in the news as the one of the most progressive village in 
Maharashtra. Every famuily has a monthly saving of Rs. 5000. So what are you 
talking about? Do you want more stories from India?
I know a woman from Ponda taluka who just makes a living by growing 'Zaieo' 
flowers and vegetables and has an annual income of around 1 lakh.  She has 
educated 3 children who have also graduated but continue to help her.
I know a farmer in Mapusa whose 2 sons have graduated and continue in 
farming and are among the progressive farmers leading the farmers movement .
I just cannot understand from where you have gathered this idea that 
agriculture spells poverty.

Which economy and agricultural policy are you talking about?
-soter 

[Goanet] Goanet] Death of Goa's fields - thanks to the lack of low cost

[Elvino Rodrigues]

What Soter wrote about one family extending help to another family in labour
requirement for cultivation during those times is very much true.  I
remember, my maternal grandmother had a field attached to her plot where she
resided. We were 5 members including my mother, 3 sisters and myself besides
my aunt and her 2 girls and another neigbour's family available means we
were making good number of people to support my grandmother in her field
work.  Besides this she would hire few workers where ever necessary. And you
know what she use to give us in the morning? Tea and rice-bhakri and in the
evening Rice "attol" (godxem, as some people  call it). Then when her
neigbours work is to be done we would all march there also and all for these
sweet goddies but at no other cost.  I was studying in school that time, My
Timan would also make of use of us kids and she would pay us peanuts which
was helping us only to buy some pepermints (godde).  This was how it was
going on at no much expenses at all.  Having large family with 6-8-10 kids
in a household was of very advantage to people of those times.

Then came the Indians and then schools at every village.  Education
revolutionized totally and every kid at rural areas moved to schools and to
Collages and further on and then the kids felt working or helping in the
fields went below their newly acquired status through the revolutionized
education.  Then came the Govt schemes for SC/ST along with job reservation
and so many facilities to the Scheduled tribes/casts. The end for labour
came then.  You would not believe where I live we had a large number of
labour force households they were mostly tenants in a large land owned by a
Landlord from Margao, The Landlord use to make free use of some of these
selected labourers and if they did not turn up for the work at his house he
would return by evening and break their house tiles with a big bamboo.
However, Govt schemes, free education, job reservation and support schemes
at different level really changed their life.  They had one door windowless
mud wall houses then. But now if one visit that ward you will never find
what you have seen 10-15 years back. Panchas and Sarpanchas among them have
really made very good use of Govt support schemes besides the wink of
Panchas and Sarpanchas changed their windowless mud houses into concrete
slabbed houses and bungalows with latest tiles and with several windows to
ventilate their brand new styled houses with no House Plans and with no
licence of course.  The labour status of these people have totally changed
to now professionals working at high places in Govt Departments and some
became doctors, builders and other supporting professionals but no manual
labourer.  The Education has changed them and Govt Schemes have supported
them to totally ignore or abandon their parental profession. As a
consequence there a big vacuum has been created. Every tenants now are
landlords of their own.  With this poverty too has been eradicated but
officially they are all BPL poor SC/ST.  They are the biggest beneficiaries
of the Education and Govt. Schemes and they make a very good vote bank to
their Panchas who provides them the benefits of each and every scheme that
is being introduced by the Govt.

This is one more factor why people have abandoned cultivating their fields,
at least at our neighbourhood.

Elvino

Re: [Goanet] Death of Goa's fields - thanks to the lack of low cost

[Mervyn Lobo]

soter wrote:
If it is cheap labour that was the problem then the machines have now been put 
into operation in several areas. This should fix the problem if it is so simple.
Mervyn acknowledges that farm work is back breaking  but no sooner the onions 
and potato prices increase, we have the 'town boys' screaming against price 
rice 

urging government to put curbs on exports and so on.  Farming is back breaking 
for those who become habitual with living on other people's so to say blood and 
sweat.
While we have a fast growing  tribe of blood sucker 'town boys' who sell their 
services and skills to the highest bidder in the inudstrialised market, when it 
comes to agricultural produce this very 'town boy' wants cheap labour and his 
vegetables and milk at a throw away price. For his own rare product, he will 
keep a high price but when it comes to buying his food the same parameters will 
never be acceptable to 'Town boys'. This is the hypocrisy of an urbanised 
industrial economy and its exploitative mindsets.





Soter,
I grew up in Africa.
Govts there kept the prices of agricultural products, both food and cash crops,
under tight control. The IMF and World Bank complained for decades
that the African farmer had to sell his crop for pittance to the town dwellers.


Here in N. America, it is commodity traders who decide the price of every thing
from oil to chocolate. The price is decided on supply and demand. There is no
trading house or cabal of trading houses that can set the price of any 
commodity as competitors are just waiting to find faults in pricing and 
severely 
punish those who have made the wrong bet. Again, the farmer has little or no 
control on what he gets paid for this efforts.


Now let me try and make my point as clear as I can. Hunting, gathering and 
farming are occupations for those with little or no education. Those who have
to make their living from these activities, are in economic hardships. Those
who have moved away from these activities have a better chance of economic
prosperity. The bottom line is that I have yet to see an economy that is 
prospering because of its great agricultural policy. 


Eat from the tree of knowledge. Else you will remain dependent on the whims 
of others for your survival.


Mervyn1389Lobo

Re: [Goanet] Death of Goa's fields - thanks to the lack of low cost

[soter]

Mervyn wrote:
"As a former farm labourer, I can assure all here that farm work is back
breaking
and the sure path to poverty. Real economic progress comes from
industrialisation.
Green/golden rice fields should remain only in the realms of nostalgics
and dreamers."

comment:
This is typical 'town boy' argument as Pinheiro has rightly labelled it in 
one of his posts.
If it is cheap labour that was the problem then the machines have now been 
put into operation in several areas. This should fix the problem if it is so 
simple.
Mervyn acknowledges that farm work is back breaking  but no sooner the 
onions and potato prices increase, we have the 'town boys' screaming against 
price rice urging government to put curbs on exports and so on.  Farming is 
back breaking for those who become habitual with living on other people's so 
to say blood and sweat.
While we have a fast growing  tribe of blood sucker 'town boys' who sell 
their services and skills to the highest bidder in the inudstrialised 
market, when it comes to agricultural produce this very 'town boy' wants 
cheap labour and his vegetables and milk at a throw away price. For his own 
rare product, he will keep a high price but when it comes to buying his food 
the same parameters will never be acceptable to 'Town boys'. This is the 
hypocrisy of an urbanised industrial economy and its exploitative mindsets.


-Soter 

Re: [Goanet] Death of Goa's fields - thanks to the lack of low cost

[Mervyn Lobo]

pinheiro wrote:
Why United States the so-called free market economy powerhouse/the world 
superpower gives subsidies to its farmers?  Are these subsidies found/grown in 
US farms too? 
http://farm.ewg.org/region.php?fips=0

---



Folks,
It is not only the US that gives subsidies to its farmers. Japan does the
same for its rice growers and nearly every country in the EU has large 
subsidy programs for their farmers.


The bottom line is that because of the subsidies, it becomes almost impossible 
for a farmer in the developing world, who earns $4 A DAY, to compete against 
his counterpart from the developed world where the minimum wage for farm hands 
is $4 PER HOUR.


As for Goa's fields, I recently spoke to some land owners in my ancestral
village. They have been unable to cultivated their rice fields for a number of 
years
now. Their explanation is always the same. There is a sever shortage of labour 
as no one wants to work in the fields after they are educated. 


As a former farm labourer, I can assure all here that farm work is back 
breaking 
and the sure path to poverty. Real economic progress comes from 
industrialisation. 
Green/golden rice fields should remain only in the realms of nostalgics 
and dreamers. 


Lastly, the economies of India and China remained stagnant when the central 
planers focused on the activities of peasants and farmers. Thankfully those
in power today, in both countries, are directing their energies into sectors 
other than
agriculture.   


Mervyn1389Lobo






.

[Goanet] Death of Goa's fields - thanks to the lack of low cost

[pinheiro]

Marlon Wrote:

No matter how you (or Soter) attempt to slice and dice it - the fact remains 
that the obsolete labor intensive methods of agriculture cannot survive  
without low cost labor.
-
Response.

Marlon, you seem to be pretty obsessed with low cost labour.  I have a proposal 
for you:  I will lease to you one of my paddy field measuring one square acre 
absolutely free for a year.  It has good rain water source plus a well in the 
centre in case rain fails you.  You are free to use low cost labourers such as 
the migrants available nearby Margao city area. I will also give you the labour 
requirements to work out your cost.
Sowing:  2 pair of bulls (Zoth) for 3 full days and 3 labourers per day for 3 
days
Weeding: 4 labourers per day for 5 days (it can be more and depends on the 
weeds)
Harvesting: 6 labourers for a day plus 5 bulls for thrashing (Davonn)
Milling:  It depends on the produce (harvest).

If your notion of cheap labour (unskilled migrants) at Rs 200-250 per day (very 
cheap by western standards) makes this deal (paddy cultivation) profitable then 
I will gift you my paddy field plot measuring 1 square acre.  If it turns loss 
then you work in my paddy field for next 5 monsoon seasons for free.  What is 
you take on this?  

You also seem to have problems with my suggestion on subsidies for farmers. 
What is your opinion when Indian free market economist Prime Minister Singh 
comparing free Spectrum (2G Scandal) allocation to Indian corporate to that 
subsidies given to Farmers? 
http://www.deccanherald.com/content/138438/pm-likens-2g-loss-subsidies.html

Why United States the so-called free market economy powerhouse/the world 
superpower gives subsidies to its farmers?  Are these subsidies found/grown in 
US farms too? 
http://farm.ewg.org/region.php?fips=0

Are only rich and wealthy entitled for freebies and not the poor?  Could you 
tell me, which title suits you best? Neo-capitalist or Pseudo-capitalist.

Agnelo Pinheiro

Re: [Goanet] Death of Goa's fields - thanks to the lack of low cost

[marlon menezes]

Pinheiro,

No matter how you (or Soter) attempt to slice and dice it - the fact remains 
that the obsolete labor intensive methods of agriculture cannot survive without 
low cost labor. If in case you missed it, I vaguely mentioned it on the subject 
header. Unless you wish to invent a backwards time machine, it is highly 
unlikely you will get cheap Goan labor in the future. 


I also agree with you and Soter that the solution to the problem of high food 
prices - is even higher cost, low volume agricultural practices. You suggested 
subsidies for farmers to enhance more agriculture. Presumably the money for 
this 
would also grow in the paddy fields. 



As for Parrikar, the hindi speaking pseudo Goan migrant who has a penchant for 
picturesque verbal diarrhea, may I suggest he use his dung to promote 
sustainable agriculture in Soter's and Pinheiro's communes.

 
Marlon




From: pinheiro 

Back then (before 90's) the paddy cultivation in Goan households was more of 
family and neighbors affair.  Back then, the Family structure was not as we see 
it today (1 or 2 kids) as most families had four or more children or they were 
living with extended families.  Did some wrote  on this forum that he cannot 
see 
many pregnant ladies in Goa.  The field work was  carried out by within each 
house hold or in barter system.  The people use to work in each others fields 
(no money paid) even if outside labour was used, they were paid in kind (paddy) 
not cash.  


With the change in lifestyle and thanks to faulty education system the paddy 
cultivation and agriculture as a whole is on decline.  Successive government 
failed to come with sustainable agricultural policies.  Cumminidade land gifted 
to tiller who have no interest in paddy cultivation or any other crop. One 
solution for revival of paddy cultivation would be formation of co-operative 
movement and then government extending support to them by give free or 
subsidies 
to buy small / medium size machines to till and harvest paddy. 






From: Rajan P. Parrikar 

Translation: Although I, Marlon "I-know-how-to-spell" Menezes, got called out
bullsh*tting on matters I know nothing about, I will continue to make an ass
of myself in a public forum.

Marlon-bhaiyya (as in UP "bhaiyya") should wonder no  more.  Big daddy P
is related to me, as is potato-head Digu.

[Goanet] Death of Goa's fields - thanks to the lack of low cost manual labour

[Carmen Miranda]

It was good to learn the reasons why our agriculture in Goa is in serious
decline.
Given that climate change is already creating havoc world wide and serious
impact on
food production, food security especially in countries like India is a
serious issue.

Any suggestions to get our agriculture going again? Shouldn't we be thinking
of future generations
and where and how they will be getting their fish curry and rice from?
Shouldn't we be very strict about land use
in Goa? Should we for a start stop immediately any further paddy fields and
other agricultural land from being
destroyed for ever? I would appreciate some constructive information about
this issue, and an exchange of ideas
about what we can do about this problem.

Regards
Carmen Miranda


Dr Ferdinando wrote:
Soter has forgotten one main reason that started the downfall of our rice
cultivation. Both the Acts, Mundkar Act and the Agricultural tenancy Act
were vote oriented Acts by Bandodkar. It was put into the heads of the
populace that they were bonded labourers like in the counterparts of India.

Comments
I definitely subscribe to your important view point. But your's is the
social and political consequence for the decline of agriculture which is
equally relevant.
What we were discussing is the economical aspect or the non-viability of
farming due to the high costs of labour.

-Soter

Re: [Goanet] Death of Goa's fields - thanks to the lack of low cost manual labour

[Dr . Ferdinando dos Reis Falcão]

COMMENT :
Soter has forgotten one main reason that started the downfall of our rice
cultivation. Both the Acts, Mundkar Act and the Agricultural tenancy Act were
vote oriented Acts by Bandodkar. It was put into the heads of the populace that
they were bonded labourers like in the counterparts of India. They relished the
idea of becoming ‘batcars’ overnight without any effort. I remember their
election slogan: “Mundcaranc batt, Xethcaranc Xeth”. Then came free education
and the overnight landowner farmers themselves used to state that their
children will now be doctors, engineers, etc. and in fact sneer at the original
land owners. These people are all not yet dead, some live to see the outcome of
their conceitedness. 




Dr. Ferdinando dos Reis Falcão.

  

Re: [Goanet] Death of Goa's fields - thanks to the lack of low cost manual labor

[soter]

Elvino wrote:
"It is not the exact truth why agriculture is a dying industry in Goa that 
it

is because of the lack of
manpower. People have stopped cultivating lands because it is not feasible
due to high cost of Labour in Goa now.  The migrant if welcomed by Marlon
they are still excessively available in Goa but Goans still find the labour
is very expensive. Since they (migrants) are already available in very
excessive numbers whether Arwin, Soter or Rajan like it or not but the
agriculture labour still very expensive and to much laborious. This is the
real reason and  Marlon got it wrong why the lands are not cultivated."

Comment:

I agree with a lot of what Elvino says.

Firstly, Goa's agriculture land holdings were meant to build self-reliant 
and self-sustained families and were not meant for profits. There are 
families in maharashtra sustaining themselves on 1 acre of land. Our 
agriculture was not meant to hire labour. Family members chipped in. If at 
all extra labour was need it worked on a barter system called 'bodlo'. I 
give 3 days in your field you give me 3 days in return in my field.  If at 
all wages were paid for those who did not have fields, they were given a 
worth in kind like so many measures of paddy and so on. Thereby the food 
stock of landless persons was also built up.


Secondly, The migrants have not done any favour to Goans. Instead they have 
carefully orchestrated a situation whereby they eliminated all local labour. 
The migrants are now exploiting the situation which has made them 
unaffordable to the Goan. How did they do it? When our local labour wage was 
Rs. 120, these migrants  were ready to work for Rs. 80. This is similar to 
how Philipino labour displaced Indian labour in the gulf. Foolish Goans 
prefered to employ the migrants to save the Rs. 40. But the work of local 
labour was of far superior quality when compared to that of the migrant and 
any Goan who has personally worked in the fields will vouch for that. The 
local labour is very aware of his worth and is not ready to be exploited by 
the employer. So gradually the local labour finding no employment prefered 
to stray away into other streams of livelihood No sooner that happened the 
migrants raised their demands much more than what the local labour was 
demanding. Secondly the migrant work force that works in the field descend 
into Goa only after they have finished with their work in the fields back 
home. Thereby there is a loss of time in the agriculture operations in Goa. 
They treat Goa like the gulf and make as much money as they can and go 
return to their village. The migrants in turn contribute to so many social 
and health problems.


Thirdly, the soil conditions and other physical conditions have deteriorated 
due to pollution of all kinds. Air and sunlight has been blocked by high 
rise building, waste water, eroded soil finds its way into the fields along 
with it is non bio-degradable garbage and so on. The bundhs have not been 
maintained and often the mafia break the sluice gates and flood the fields 
for fish farming. So also, the plough or power tillers are not available in 
time and so on. These factors further increases the burden for the farmer 
and makes agriculture non-profitable.


Fourthly, in case of paddy  there is a hell lot of work till it reaches the 
mill. Spaces for drying and boiling the paddy are diminishing. The present 
generation of youngsters have not cultivated the physique and stamina for 
such kind of work. The psyche of everyone is to look for a job in some 
industry.


So matters are not so simple as is being made out by marlon and company. 

[Goanet] Death of Goa's fields - thanks to the lack of low cost manual labor

[Elvino Rodrigues]

are making best use of these benevolences of Goa and Goans. The Doctor
also say, why not many Goans take advantage of these free medicines it is
because the Goans feel it is below their prestige to go to Govt Hospitals
and availed Govt's free medicines.   So why not migrants and non-goans find
that Goa is a heaven for them!  This is just another reason though there are
many more reasons why more and more migrants rush day by day to Goa. and
their number still ever swelling.  It is not only Arwin, Soter or Rajan who
are enlightening the fear of loosing Goa, there are many and many more Goans
who just watch it as they are helpless when the Politicians are facilitating
them all with best of the goodies illegally though.  They are the real
benefactors of all schemes which are meant for poor and helpless Goans with
the blessing of the powerful Politicians.  We Goans are just busy to chase
the illegal things that are going on, who has time for this in this busy
world?.  We will wake up when everything is lost one day like greedy
Palestians who sold their lands to very rich Israelis for a very rich booty.
Now the sons of Palestinians are fighting a lost battle for years.  MIGRANTS
word can be too dangerous if not handled with caution and with utmost care.
Politicians who are temporary will sell and offer everything to non-goans
that is of Goa and Goans and they will make big money for them and for their
families and perhaps for their future generation and they will be gone while
we will wake too late and curse them yet we will not recover anything once
lost.

It is indeed time to ponder on.

Elvino.

RE:
Message: 2
Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2011 07:11:44 -0800 (PST)
From: marlon menezes 
To: "Goa's premiere mailing list, estb. 1994!"
   
Subject: [Goanet] Death of Goa's fields - thanks to the lack of low
   costmanual labor
Message-ID: <350277.62856...@web110612.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

This is another example of hypocrisy by anti-immigrant, non-resident pseudo
Goans like Arwin and Rajan.

One reason why agriculture is a dying industry in Goa because of the lack of
manpower. There is limited manpower thanks to the large out flow of Goans,
like
Arwin and Rajan to other parts of India and the world.

Landowners would like to get access to manual labor to get farm work done,
but
we have anti-immigrant bashers like Arwin and Rajan, and extreme leftists
like
Soter who oppose such free movement of labor to satisfy market needs. Have
these
anti-free market, anti-immigrant clowns ever spoken to farmers and
landowners
about the problems they face?

With the land lying fallow, it makes a lot of sense for the landowners to
sell
their properties to the construction industry. It is almost as if the
anti-immigrant groups are working hand in glove with the land sharks.


Marlon

[Goanet] Death of Goa's fields - thanks to the lack of low cost manual labor

[marlon menezes]

This is another example of hypocrisy by anti-immigrant, non-resident pseudo 
Goans like Arwin and Rajan.

One reason why agriculture is a dying industry in Goa because of the lack of 
manpower. There is limited manpower thanks to the large out flow of Goans, like 
Arwin and Rajan to other parts of India and the world.

Landowners would like to get access to manual labor to get farm work done, but 
we have anti-immigrant bashers like Arwin and Rajan, and extreme leftists like 
Soter who oppose such free movement of labor to satisfy market needs. Have 
these 
anti-free market, anti-immigrant clowns ever spoken to farmers and landowners 
about the problems they face?

With the land lying fallow, it makes a lot of sense for the landowners to sell 
their properties to the construction industry. It is almost as if the 
anti-immigrant groups are working hand in glove with the land sharks. 


Marlon

 




From: Rajan P. Parrikar 


On the way back to Panjim this morning from an early photo shoot
in Loutolim, I saw a Goan farmer selling fresh vegetables by the 
roadside in Agacaim.

Gaunthi vaingim -

http://www.parrikar.org/images/samples/vaingim.jpg


Looking at these magnificent brinjals I couldn't help but reflect on 
what might have been if Goan agriculture - and with it our traditional
farmers, mostly gaude - had not been systematically destroyed
and diminished.  You can't get this quality of produce and its taste 
anywhere in the world, not even in fertile California.