[google-appengine] Retrieving image from a Blob

[Raymond]

Hi All,

I have been trying to understand how to upload and download images
from to a Blobstore and have hit a wall.
I have essentially made a modified version of the Guestbook example
provided by google and modified it to suit my needs, I have tested the
guestbook app as is and got it working, somehow somewhere I am making
a simple mistake that frustrate every attempt at getting it working in
my own code.
I have stripped down my code to the essential in the hope of
understanding what is wrong, but I am still stuck.

What am I attempting to do ?
Upload in a blobstore an image and display it in a web page.

What is my code ?

1) My upload form served from a static page

...
http://192.168.0.196:8083/uploadphoto";
enctype="multipart/form-data" method="post">
Attempt at uploading a picture using a form



...

2) My db model :

class Photo(db.Model):
photo = db.BlobProperty()
date = db.DateTimeProperty(auto_now_add=True)

3) The code uploading the photo and saving it in the blobstore

class UploadPhoto(webapp.RequestHandler):
def post(self):
photo = Photo()
img = self.request.get('photo')
photo.photo = db.Blob(img)
photo.put()

4) The code creating the web page displaying the images :

class PhotoPage(webapp.RequestHandler):
def get(self):
self.response.out.write('')
self.response.out.write('Date&Time  Photo')
photos = db.GqlQuery("SELECT * FROM Photo ORDER BY date DESC 
LIMIT
10")
for photo in photos:
self.response.out.write('%s  ' % photo.date)
self.response.out.write(''
% photo.key())
self.response.out.write('')

5) The code serving the images :

class ServePhoto (webapp.RequestHandler):
def get(self):
  photo = db.get(self.request.get("photo_id"))
  if photo.photo:
  self.response.headers['Content-Type'] = "image/jpg"
  self.response.out.write(photo.photo)
  else:
  self.error(404)

Everything seem to work until this last stage, I can select an image
in my form, upload it, Something is written in Binary in the
Blobstore.
When I visit the page supposed to display the image I see all info but
a broken image icon.
I checked the source code and the HTML seem to be just fine, here it
is with one record in the blobstore, I get the blob key which mena
that there is a record with some binary stuff in it.

Date&TimePhoto2010-09-13 00:31:14.477698 

I also know that the ServePhoto class is called and executed but it if
photo.photo always return false and execute self-eror(404).
I tried replacing this with a different error code and it always
display the error code so I am sure the if statement get a false.

My questions is, why would the if statement get a false if there is
effectively an image in the blobstore (Proved by the fact that I can
retrieve it's key) ?

I am sorry for the long post, and hope I am not too confusing.

Thanks for any hint that would get me on the right way and forgive me
if the answer is obvious, I probably need new eyes.

Raymond

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[google-appengine] Re: Retrieving image from a Blob

[Raymond]

Dear Both,

Thanks a lot for your time.
I have been away for a couple of weeks and did not have the time to
follow up until today.
I'll have a serious look at your info and will let you know if I
manage to crack this nut.

Thanks again

-R

On Sep 15, 2:29 am, John McLaughlin 
wrote:
> @Robert.  Right you are.  I checked the docs and db.get is a magic get
> anything function.  Sorry for the noise.
>
> So I'm going for door #2 now.  In ServePhoto "photo" must be the
> correctly returned key.  Otherwise accessing "photo.photo" would give
> an error.  So photo.photo must truly be a false value.  This means to
> me that although "photo" is a valid object, the photo.photo property
> never got set properly.  This takes us back to "UploadPhoto".  It's
> unlikely that photo.put() failed.   And it's likely that "db.Blob"
> created a valid db.Blob object.  However accessing "photo.photo"
> doesn't return the db.Blob object, but rather the underlying data that
> came into it.  Therefore I think your original hunch that the incoming
> data for db.Blob is an empty string is correct.  I've struggled with
> multi-part posts so I'm not 100% sure about the html.  One thing that
> looks suspicious is the hard coding of the hostname:port in the post
> action.  Are you sure you don't want simply "/uploadphoto"?   That
> could send the uploads to the wrong place, for example different ports
> use different datastores on the Dev Server.
>
> On Sep 14, 9:17 am, Robert Kluin  wrote:
>
>
>
> > db.get() will grab an entity of _any_ kind.  Model.get checks that the
> > key is for the correct kind of entity before fetching it.  Either will
> > work.  When I use db.get I usually include a check to make sure the
> > keys are the correct kind.
>
> > The key he posted in his initial thread is a Photo.
>
> > Robert
>
> > On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 11:34, John McLaughlin
>
> >  wrote:
> > > The one thing that looked off to me is that the line in ServePhoto
>
> > >     photo = db.get(self.request.get("photo_id"))
>
> > > might want to be
>
> > >     photo = Photo.get(self.request.get("photo_id"))
>
> > > I think db.get is a datastore method, not an inherited method from
> > > db.Model
>
> > > On Sep 13, 8:09 pm, Robert Kluin  wrote:
> > >> I glanced over your code, nothing really major jumped out at me.  If
> > >> you are not getting an exception in ServePhoto then the model is
> > >> clearly getting created and successfully fetched.
>
> > >> So, here are my first thoughts:
> > >> Have you tried logging some debug info in the UploadPhoto and
> > >> ServePhoto handlers?    Specifically are you sure data is actually in
> > >> the photo property and it is not just an empty string or something?
> > >> Maybe you could try logging len(photo.photo) right before saving it,
> > >> then again right after fetching it.
>
> > >> What happens when you remove the if and simply return photo.photo?
>
> > >> Robert
>
> > >> class ServePhoto (webapp.RequestHandler):
> > >>    def get(self):
> > >>      photo = db.get(self.request.get("photo_id"))
> > >>      if photo.photo:
> > >>          self.response.headers['Content-Type'] = "image/jpg"
> > >>          self.response.out.write(photo.photo)
> > >>      else:
> > >>          self.error(404)
>
> > >> --
> > >> Robert Kluin
> > >> Ezox Systems, LLC
>
> > >> On Sun, Sep 12, 2010 at 22:03, Raymond
>
> > >>  wrote:
> > >> > Hi All,
>
> > >> > I have been trying to understand how to upload and download images
> > >> > from to a Blobstore and have hit a wall.
> > >> > I have essentially made a modified version of the Guestbook example
> > >> > provided by google and modified it to suit my needs, I have tested the
> > >> > guestbook app as is and got it working, somehow somewhere I am making
> > >> > a simple mistake that frustrate every attempt at getting it working in
> > >> > my own code.
> > >> > I have stripped down my code to the essential in the hope of
> > >> > understanding what is wrong, but I am still stuck.
>
> > >> > What am I attempting to do ?
> > >> > Upload in a blobstore an image and display it in a web page.
>
> > >> > Wha

[google-appengine] Re: Cautionary Tale: Abusive price for data migration and deletion

[Raymond]

Dear Yohan,

On my side I thank you for sharing your experience, I am beginning
with GAE and know that whatever the time I will put on this project I
will be making beginner mistakes and this kind of info is precious.
I have now a limited experience with GAE and have to compare it with
what I know and in some sectors GAE look very bad, for example I can't
imagine Oracle, DB2, Informix, etc, ...MsSQL, etc having any
commercial success if they would not have implemented rock solid
solutions to import and export data, backup, build and drop tables and
databases and of course calculate precisely the data space required to
build a data structure, in some cases down to the byte.
Although I understand the very different nature of GAE compared to
this traditional DB engines, I think that any professional developer,
IT manager, project manager, or person responsible for budget would
feel very uncomfortable building a system without a firm grip on it's
costs or a reasonable solution to modify an initial implementation or
migrate away from it. Also the fact that part of the GAE tools are
simply not reliable enough to be able to plan effort and time required
to do something is an other big minus for this solution.

Although DB's are not my main competence, my very first paid job
20+years ago was to migrate a critical database to a new structure on
a new machine (HP 9000 unix), using a long forgotten database engine,
the first attempt using SQL took 1 week to migrate, the second using
low level C calls took months to develop and migrated in the required
3.5 hours, but the important thing to note is that It never crossed my
mind to question the reliability of the machine, the database or the C
calls I was making to the DB, it just worked, the Server could be
locked for minutes swapping to disk because of lack of memory or
overload, but it never failed once and repeated the exercise time and
time again, reliably and in a predictable timeframe.

All this said there are advantages to GAE that are worth fighting with
it's limitations, I have not yet found anything else that is so
immediately and massively scalable and at the same time does not
require me to manage the software and hardware, this is invaluable,
and although I know that I could have a easier job moving to MySQL, I
just don't want to manage an OS and a DB engine, I don't have the
time, I have done it and don't think that's where I am going to earn
my bacon.

I will always envy some of the people answering your message for the
depth of knowledge they have of this platform and the fact that they
always have the right solution and right answer to everything, it must
be great to never make mistakes.

-R


On Dec 29, 6:25 am, jon  wrote:
> Yohan I agree that there should be an easy and cheap way to get your
> data out. I think it's a little unfair that leaving GAE is made that
> hard.
>
> How much did you spend on your custom data download tool? Would you
> consider open sourcing it for other developers who are caught in the
> same position? I'd hate spending weeks building a custom tool just to
> get my data out.
>
> Thanks for sharing your experience.
>
> On Dec 29, 12:26 am, Yohan  wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Hi Brandon,
>
> > Although i agree with you that the original dataset wasnt fully
> > optimized (that was over 2 years ago), i believe that i have a good
> > understanding of datatore vs SQL, caching etc. Im not building public
> > facing website im dealing with private apis and I am already
> > stretching memcache and custom built java cache to the limits.
>
> > I am also not talking about the reasons why im migrating out of GAE.
> > The points i highlighted were:
>
> > - no easy way to get your data out
> > - no cheap way to get your big data out
> > - bulk export in python doesn't handle binary/blob data
> > - remote api is unstable
> > - running database queries using cursors for long period of time is
> > unreliable (many times the cursor got reset for some reason or the
> > query would return a 000 cursor thus screwing 1 week of data
> > processing)
> > - it cost me an arm to delete my data
>
> > To answer other questions :
> > - of course i thought about migrating the remaining data to a new app
> > then alias from the old app to the new one. But it means interrupting
> > the service (disable datastore writes) and i cant afford that. Plus
> > the remaining data is still quite big.
> > - the multi indexes: everytime i changed the data structure i would
> > reprocess everything to conform it to the new schema. Im not using any
> > framework like objectify or jdo, im working with the raw api directly
> > (which is way more elegant)
> > - im not criticizing the platform i am criticizing the lack of tools
> > to export and the prohibitive cost of manipulating large data sets. I
> > actually love GAE, it is just not for this kind of dataset thats all.
>
> > @Brandon : If you have a way to delete 2 billions entities (whatever
> > their size) on the cheap p

[google-appengine] Re: Increased CPU Time/Request after yesterdays maintenance?

[Raymond C.]

My app got a huge amount of deadline exceeded error on DB put, which
last for like 5 - 10min for all requests when it happens.  Didnt have
these issues before the maintenance.

On Sep 14, 5:36 pm, mscwd01  wrote:
> Yes I got that too, shortly after the maintenance period ended, I dont
> seem to get them anymore though.
>
> During maintenance I got some huge CPU time per request readings -
> which I guess is understandable?. However, I simply cannot see how my
> resource consistently uses nearly double the the CPU time it did
> before the maintenance. Unless the changes they made were to make
> requests more expensive ;)
>
> On 14 Sep, 10:31, Tonny <12br...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > I get a general 500 error for an app. Same source as yesterday - so
> > would say it's not a coincidence.
>
> > This message appears in the log:
> > Request was aborted after waiting too long to attempt to service your
> > request. This may happen sporadically when the App Engine serving
> > cluster is under unexpectedly high or uneven load. If you see this
> > message frequently, please contact the App Engine team.
>
> > On Sep 14, 11:14 am, mscwd01  wrote:
>
> > > Hey,
>
> > > This may just be a coincidence but my average CPU time per request has
> > > risen noticably since yesterdays maintenance. Whereas my average was
> > > 250-300ms, it now takes on average 500-600ms. This is the exact same
> > > resource without any changes made, so I cannot seem to work out why
> > > this would be. Has anyone else noticed this?
>
> > > Thanks

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[google-appengine] Re: 500 error accessing http://appengine.google.com/

[Raymond C.]

Cant even connect to my application.

On Sep 14, 7:44 pm, James  wrote:
> Right now.  Also can't deploy ("Rolling back update" error).

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[google-appengine] Re: 500 error accessing http://appengine.google.com/

[Raymond C.]

Its better now but still happens occasionally

On Sep 14, 8:54 pm, James  wrote:
> While things seem to have stabilized, trying to deploy earlier this
> morning seems to have "hung" a deployment of mine.  I now get an
> error:
>
> "Another transaction by user xxx is already in progress for this app
> and major version. That user can undo the transaction with appcfg.py's
> "rollback" command."
>
> I'm mentioning this for the GAE team just in case this NEEDS to be
> done.  Otherwise I'm content to just push out a different major
> version and eventually delete the stalled one.  I'm doing it this way
> because I use Java so I don't have the rollback command handy.
>
> James
>
> On Sep 14, 7:44 am, James  wrote:
>
>
>
> > Right now.  Also can't deploy ("Rolling back update" error).

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[google-appengine] Re: Problems with App Engine today - Can we get an explanation?

[Raymond C.]

Still getting a large amount of timeout on db put.  Hope someone at
google is working on it.

On Sep 15, 6:42 am, Kenneth  wrote:
> Someone in Google has tried turning it on and off again.  Things are
> really flying now.
>
> I would just ask Google to stop with the standard "We have determined
> that this spike did not affect the performance or uptime of
> applications."  Please change that default message to something a
> little more vague and less insulting.
>
> Thanks!
>
> On Sep 14, 10:48 pm, Kenneth  wrote:
>
>
>
> > Now the status site is just returning a blank page and the rate of 500
> > errors has gone up significantly.
>
> > I can't believe that downtime notice thinks this issue is over.  My
> > app is barely usable.
>
> > Come on Google, give us something better.  At least let us know you
> > know there's an ongoing serious problem.
>
> > On Sep 14, 8:16 pm, Michael Robellard  wrote:
>
> > > I am seeing thousands of errors(all timeouts of one type or another)
> > > on requests that typically have less than 100 errors a day. My CPU
> > > usage per second is up 20% since the failure this morning. These are
> > > requests that usually take less than a second and they are reaching
> > > the 30 second mark.
>
> > > On Sep 14, 3:04 pm, mscwd01  wrote:
>
> > > > Hi,
>
> > > > Can we get an official word on why the App Engine has performed so
> > > > poorly today?
>
> > > > My app has seen hundreds of HTTP 500 errors, is running approximately
> > > > twice as slow (CPU time/request) as yesterday (PUTs are very slow),
> > > > had many "HardDeadlineExceededError" errors and stats tools such as
> > > > AppStats don't appear to be working for me (displays "real" time but
> > > > not cpu time).
>
> > > > It'd be reassuring to know why these problems are occurring and what
> > > > is being done to fix these and stop the happening again.
>
> > > > Thanks

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[google-appengine] Re: Do we have an ETA for the resolution of ongoing performance issues.

[Raymond C.]

As of 10:01pm (PDT, log msg time), my app is still generating a lot of
deadline exceeded error.  It happens like every 30min (not able to
backtrace too far since the log viewer is broken for me after paging)
and when it happens, all db put requests in that minute or two prompt
the error.

On Sep 15, 12:17 pm, "Ikai Lan (Google)" 
wrote:
> Hi Tim,
>
> You can track the progress here:
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine-downtime-notify/brows...
>
> It's pretty hard to give an ETA, but we'd like to resolve this as soon as
> possible. We're seeing signs that the issues may have subsided, but we'd
> like a bit more confidence before giving the all clear.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 6:49 PM, Tim Hoffman  wrote:
> > Hi
>
> >http://groups.google.com.au/group/google-appengine-downtime-notify/br...
> > was posted several hours ago, with no updates.
>
> > I certainly am experiencing significant ongoing issues with taskqueues
> > and datastore timeouts and half the time can't get to the dashboard.
>
> > I know someone must be working hard on this, but a little more detail
> > on progress, ie ETA to recovery would be really great
>
> > Thanks
>
> > Tim
>
> > --
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[google-appengine] Re: GAE downtime email marked as spam by gmail

[Raymond C.]

same here

On Sep 15, 3:41 pm, Kenneth  wrote:
> Does anyone else get the downtime emails marked as spam pretty much
> always? The first one yesterday got through fine but the second got
> caught as a phishing email.
>
> http://imgur.com/HMrRL.png

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[google-appengine] Re: 500 error trying to reach dashboard

[Raymond C.]

Same here with mscwd01.  Much better now but still not as good as
before the maintenance.

On Sep 16, 7:55 am, mscwd01  wrote:
> It's certainly a lot better than it was yesterday; however, it is
> still noticeably worse than before the maintenance took place. Latency
> is up, PUTs to the datastore take longer and the average CPU time for
> my main resource is about 200ms more. Also the error rate is a few %
> higher.
>
> On 15 Sep, 22:33, "Ikai Lan (Google)" 
> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Is anyone still experience issues? We should be okay now, though we're
> > watching this carefully.
>
> > On Wed, Sep 15, 2010 at 4:20 PM, Amir  wrote:
> > > Same here... latency is up and can't access the Dashboard.
>
> > > On Sep 15, 6:50 am, Fredrik Bonander 
> > > wrote:
> > > > I've had problems with reaching the dashboard since yesterday with 2
> > > different applications.
>
> > > > Is this related to the problems with the datastore?
>
> > > > ..fredrik
>
> > > > --
> > > > Fredrik Bonander
> > > > carl.fredrik.bonan...@gmail.com
> > > > +46 70 943 5441
>
> > > > - the infinite power of the creative mind -
>
> > > --
> > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
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> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
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> > > .
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[google-appengine] Re: 500 error trying to reach dashboard

[Raymond C.]

no timeout for my app in the last 2.5 hours. looks good, will keep
watching.

On Sep 16, 1:11 pm, "Ikai Lan (Google)" 
wrote:
> Thanks for the feedback. I'll pass it along. Can you guys update this thread
> over the next day or so? It'd be extremely helpful if we also know a general
> % of how much latency was introduced and how many more errors you are
> seeing.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 12:20 AM, Raymond C.  wrote:
> > Same here with mscwd01.  Much better now but still not as good as
> > before the maintenance.
>
> > On Sep 16, 7:55 am, mscwd01  wrote:
> > > It's certainly a lot better than it was yesterday; however, it is
> > > still noticeably worse than before the maintenance took place. Latency
> > > is up, PUTs to the datastore take longer and the average CPU time for
> > > my main resource is about 200ms more. Also the error rate is a few %
> > > higher.
>
> > > On 15 Sep, 22:33, "Ikai Lan (Google)" 
> > > 
>
> > > wrote:
>
> > > > Is anyone still experience issues? We should be okay now, though we're
> > > > watching this carefully.
>
> > > > On Wed, Sep 15, 2010 at 4:20 PM, Amir  wrote:
> > > > > Same here... latency is up and can't access the Dashboard.
>
> > > > > On Sep 15, 6:50 am, Fredrik Bonander <
> > carl.fredrik.bonan...@gmail.com>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > I've had problems with reaching the dashboard since yesterday with
> > 2
> > > > > different applications.
>
> > > > > > Is this related to the problems with the datastore?
>
> > > > > > ..fredrik
>
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > Fredrik Bonander
> > > > > > carl.fredrik.bonan...@gmail.com
> > > > > > +46 70 943 5441
>
> > > > > > - the infinite power of the creative mind -
>
> > > > > --
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>
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> >http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.

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[google-appengine] Re: 500 error trying to reach dashboard

[Raymond C.]

Oopsstill happening sometimes...when it happen, all requests in
the same minute timeout on db put. They are in different entity
group.

On Sep 16, 2:34 pm, "Raymond C."  wrote:
> no timeout for my app in the last 2.5 hours. looks good, will keep
> watching.
>
> On Sep 16, 1:11 pm, "Ikai Lan (Google)" 
> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Thanks for the feedback. I'll pass it along. Can you guys update this thread
> > over the next day or so? It'd be extremely helpful if we also know a general
> > % of how much latency was introduced and how many more errors you are
> > seeing.
>
> > On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 12:20 AM, Raymond C.  wrote:
> > > Same here with mscwd01.  Much better now but still not as good as
> > > before the maintenance.
>
> > > On Sep 16, 7:55 am, mscwd01  wrote:
> > > > It's certainly a lot better than it was yesterday; however, it is
> > > > still noticeably worse than before the maintenance took place. Latency
> > > > is up, PUTs to the datastore take longer and the average CPU time for
> > > > my main resource is about 200ms more. Also the error rate is a few %
> > > > higher.
>
> > > > On 15 Sep, 22:33, "Ikai Lan (Google)" 
> > > > 
>
> > > > wrote:
>
> > > > > Is anyone still experience issues? We should be okay now, though we're
> > > > > watching this carefully.
>
> > > > > On Wed, Sep 15, 2010 at 4:20 PM, Amir  wrote:
> > > > > > Same here... latency is up and can't access the Dashboard.
>
> > > > > > On Sep 15, 6:50 am, Fredrik Bonander <
> > > carl.fredrik.bonan...@gmail.com>
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > I've had problems with reaching the dashboard since yesterday with
> > > 2
> > > > > > different applications.
>
> > > > > > > Is this related to the problems with the datastore?
>
> > > > > > > ..fredrik
>
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > Fredrik Bonander
> > > > > > > carl.fredrik.bonan...@gmail.com
> > > > > > >+46 70 943 5441
>
> > > > > > > - the infinite power of the creative mind -
>
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> > > Groups
> > > > > > "Google App Engine" group.
> > > > > > To post to this group, send email to
> > > google-appeng...@googlegroups.com.
> > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > > > > > google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > > > > >  e...@googlegroups.com> > > e...@googlegroups.com>
> > > > > > .
> > > > > > For more options, visit this group at
> > > > > >http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
>
> > > --
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> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
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> > > .
> > > For more options, visit this group at
> > >http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.

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[google-appengine] Anyone else seeing high amount of DB put timeout again?

[Raymond C.]

My app is having very high amount of timeout of DB operation again
just like the situation right just after 13/9 maintenance.  Anyone
else having the same problem?

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[google-appengine] Re: Super High Latency!! many 500 response! What happen to GAE?

[Raymond C.]

Same here.  The problem seems getting more serious.  I hope the
appengine team is not ignoring all these.


On Sep 22, 11:30 am, Albert  wrote:
> Same problem here.
>
> On Sep 22, 9:52 am, Eric Ka Ka Ng  wrote:
>
>
>
> > Have great troubles in serving requests today, even with the very simple one
> > which usually takes <50ms!! What's wrong with GAE? Any system maintenance or
> > incident happening?
>
> > here is one of the log
>
> >  500 10530ms 0cpu_ms 0kb
> > 09-21 06:48PM 05.643
>
> > Request was aborted after waiting too long to attempt to service your
> > request. This may happen sporadically when the App Engine serving
> > cluster is under unexpectedly high or uneven load. If you see this
> > message frequently, please contact the App Engine team.
>
> > - eric

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[google-appengine] Re: Anyone else seeing high amount of DB put timeout again?

[Raymond C.]

Now it's even worst that most task queue return tracient error while
adding them...

On Sep 23, 1:00 am, James Saull  wrote:
> same. It is sporadic. Up down up down. Even simple pages that dont use
> db or memcache.
>
> On Sep 22, 5:13 pm, solsTiCe d'Hiver 
> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Le mercredi 22 septembre 2010 à 16:26 +0200, Fredrik Bonander a écrit :> 
> > Are you using django 1.1?
>
> > I am using google.appengine.ext.webapp.template

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[google-appengine] TransientError on adding task queue, yet the status page says no error.

[Raymond C.]

Anyone else having the same problem? or its just me?  Most of my task
queue insertions are failing with below error, they were working fine
for several weeks.


The traces are as below:

File "/base/python_runtime/python_lib/versions/1/google/appengine/ext/
deferred/deferred.py", line 241, in defer
   return task.add(queue, transactional=transactional)
 File "/base/python_runtime/python_lib/versions/1/google/appengine/api/
labs/taskqueue/taskqueue.py", line 563, in add
   return Queue(queue_name).add(self, transactional=transactional)
 File "/base/python_runtime/python_lib/versions/1/google/appengine/api/
labs/taskqueue/taskqueue.py", line 617, in add
   self.__AddTasks(tasks, transactional)
 File "/base/python_runtime/python_lib/versions/1/google/appengine/api/
labs/taskqueue/taskqueue.py", line 645, in __AddTasks
   raise self.__TranslateError(e.application_error, e.error_detail)
TransientError

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[google-appengine] Re: Super High Latency!! many 500 response! What happen to GAE?

[Raymond C.]

Really disappointed that after 24 hours and still no one from Google
is responding, or at least tell us someone is looking at it...

On Sep 23, 10:46 am, ego008  wrote:
> Same here.http://gaefons.appspot.com/
>
> 2010/9/22 James Saull 
>
>
>
>
>
> > I am using Django as is bundled by default by GAE and I am getting
> > failures again today. It happened for most of yesterday - was fine
> > this morning and now failing again. Even the simple pages which
> > normally take a few cpu cycles. I can access the dashboard and view my
> > data from there no problem.
>
> > On Sep 22, 3:18 pm, Blixt  wrote:
> > > It's probably part due to using Django 1.1, since you are the third
> > > person reporting this problem using Django 1.1 (assuming you are using
> > > it :)
>
> > > On Sep 22, 3:52 pm, Fredrik Bonander 
> > > wrote:
>
> > > > Same here. Could this be related to using django 1.1?
>
> > > > ..fredrik
>
> > > > On Sep 22, 2010, at 11:10 AM, Blixt wrote:
>
> > > > > Yup, same here. Maybe related to:
> > > > > -
> >http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine/browse_thread/thread/...
> > > > > and
> > > > > -
> >http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine/browse_thread/thread/...
>
> > > > > On Sep 22, 3:52 am, Eric Ka Ka Ng  wrote:
> > > > >> Have great troubles in serving requests today, even with the very
> > simple one
> > > > >> which usually takes <50ms!! What's wrong with GAE? Any system
> > maintenance or
> > > > >> incident happening?
>
> > > > >> here is one of the log
>
> > > > >>  500 10530ms 0cpu_ms 0kb
> > > > >> 09-21 06:48PM 05.643
>
> > > > >> Request was aborted after waiting too long to attempt to service
> > your
> > > > >> request. This may happen sporadically when the App Engine serving
> > > > >> cluster is under unexpectedly high or uneven load. If you see this
> > > > >> message frequently, please contact the App Engine team.
>
> > > > >> - eric
>
> > > > > --
> > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> > Groups "Google App Engine" group.
> > > > > To post to this group, send email to
> > google-appeng...@googlegroups.com.
> > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > e...@googlegroups.com>
> > .
> > > > > For more options, visit this group athttp://
> > groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
>
> > > > --
> > > > Fredrik Bonander
> > > > carl.fredrik.bonan...@gmail.com
> > > > +46 70 943 5441
>
> > > > - the infinite power of the creative mind -
>
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> > "Google App Engine" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to google-appeng...@googlegroups.com.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
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> > .
> > For more options, visit this group at
> >http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
>
> --
> GAE粉丝团http://gaefons.appspot.com/

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[google-appengine] Re: Super High Latency!! many 500 response! What happen to GAE?

[Raymond C.]

I think its not related to whether the app is idle or not.  My app has
constant requests (> 8 req/s all the time) for the whole day everyday
but still seeing a lot of these from time to time.

Its even more frustrating is that I have to pay for all these extra
CPU consumed because of deadline exceeded on DB get or put.  I am
currently spending more than $20USD per day for hosting on appengin,
wondering if it would be much cheaper if it is on AWS...

On Sep 23, 5:40 pm, Carlos Ble  wrote:
> Jesus! the sooner I write the email, the sooner I get the 500 again :'-(
>
> I better shut up
>
> 2010/9/23 Carlos Ble 
>
>
>
>
>
> > Hi guys,
> > Yesterday we deployed a version using precompilacion. app.yaml:
>
> > ...
> > api_version: 1
>
> > derived_file_type:
> > - python_precompiled
>
> > handlers:
> > ...
>
> > We also have a monitoring tool that makes a request to the home page every
> > 4 minutes, and a selenium test every 15 minutes. That helps keeping the app
> > alive, so that when users come to visit after some inactivity they don't get
> > the 500 error. Don't know if this is bad for google but it is definitively
> > good for our users and that is what matters to us.
>
> > Since yesterday night, we haven't seen the app fail.
> > Hope that helps to you guys :-S
>
> > 2010/9/23 James Saull 
>
> > I have noticed that if my application is idle for a while I am likely
> >> to get the "request was aborted..." message. But then when I retry the
> >> request it is likely to respond. I can then click around the
> >> application quickly and responsively. If I then leave it for a short
> >> while it goes back into failure mode.
>
> >> Has Google got some aggressive garbage collecting going on? I.e. idle
> >> apps are unloaded very quickly but cannot be reloaded into the engine
> >> quickly enough to serve the first request? This would explain the
> >> service dashboard showing 100% uptime because the apps being pinged by
> >> the monitoring tool are kept alive and loaded by the engine -i.e. they
> >> are effectively not allowed to idle and be unloaded due to the
> >> monitoring activity?
>
> >> Don't want to write a cron job to keep my app alive!
>
> >> On Sep 23, 9:13 am, James Saull  wrote:
> >> > I am finding my app works for a while and then stops and then comes
> >> > back again etc. This is now the third day of being unstable after
> >> > being stable for ages. I haven't changed the app at all. The main URI
> >> > normally averages: 57ms latency and 79cpu_ms. One page which is just a
> >> > Django template page and makes no calls to memcache or the DB gets
> >> > errors like this:
>
> >> > "Request was aborted after waiting too long to attempt to service your
> >> > request. This may happen sporadically when the App Engine serving
> >> > cluster is under unexpectedly high or uneven load. If you see this
> >> > message frequently, please contact the App Engine team."
>
> >> > Glad to see Google Engineers apparently ignoring this. I love the
> >> wayhttp://code.google.com/status/appengineshowsthat AppEngine is
> >> > running fine. What rubbish!
>
> >> > I use Azure and AWS and this is proving to be the worst cloud platform
> >> > of the lot so far whilst promising to be the most interesting for
> >> > certain class of application. Confidence in Google is draining fast.
> >> > Yes I know it is preview but Azure in Beta was far better and there
> >> > were engineers looking in the groups and scouring twitter etc. Would
> >> > you consider GAE for production applications if the service dashboard
> >> > says "100% perfect" when clearly it is not, and the engineers are not
> >> > engaging after a few days?
>
> >> > Very disappointed.
>
> >> > On Sep 23, 7:07 am, Eric Ka Ka Ng  wrote:
>
> >> > > i'm NOT using Django so i guess it's not related to importing Django
> >> modules
>
> >> > > the problem for me, was even for some very simple request which
> >> usually
> >> > > takes <50ms, would still be facing deadlineExceedError.
>
> >> > > but one common properties for all these long latency calls are, yes,
> >> they
> >> > > are retrieving something from DS, so i think it's sth related to DS
> >> get
>
> >> > > the problem happened yesterday, a

[google-appengine] Re: Latency spikes and aborted requests in the last 24 hours

[Raymond C.]

My app is still having a lot of timeout on DB put and get.  I am just
tired to keep reporting here while no one seems to be doing anything
about it.

I miss the days before the maintenance before 13/9.

On Sep 25, 5:42 am, Jason C  wrote:
> This thread is somewhat quiet today, but we (appid steprep) are still
> seeing lots of time outs. Running at about 7 QPS when this happened:
>
> 09-24 02:37PM 57.365 /_ah/queue/deferred 500 10021ms
> 09-24 02:37PM 51.017 /_ah/queue/deferred 500 10011ms
> 09-24 02:37PM 47.446 /_ah/queue/deferred 500 10013ms
> 09-24 02:37PM 47.266 /_ah/queue/deferred 500 10010ms
> 09-24 02:37PM 45.304 /_ah/queue/deferred 500 10039ms
> 09-24 02:37PM 44.501 /_ah/queue/deferred 500 10010ms
> 09-24 02:37PM 42.179 /_ah/queue/deferred 500 10009ms
> 09-24 02:37PM 42.014 /_ah/queue/deferred 500 10029ms
> 09-24 02:35PM 18.229 /_ah/queue/deferred 500 10031ms
> 09-24 02:35PM 16.249 /_ah/queue/deferred 500 10069ms
> 09-24 02:35PM 15.662 /_ah/queue/deferred 500 10065ms
> 09-24 02:35PM 13.913 /_ah/queue/deferred 500 10003ms
> 09-24 02:35PM 13.520 /_ah/queue/deferred 500 10021ms
> 09-24 02:35PM 11.282 /_ah/queue/deferred 500 10087ms
> 09-24 02:35PM 10.238 /_ah/queue/deferred 500 10003ms
> 09-24 02:35PM 09.414 /_ah/queue/deferred 500 10094ms
> 09-24 02:34PM 05.098 /_ah/queue/deferred 500 29954ms
> 09-24 02:33PM 58.846 /_ah/queue/deferred 500 29576ms
> 09-24 02:34PM 10.829 /_ah/queue/deferred 500 10014ms
> 09-24 02:34PM 10.764 /_ah/queue/deferred 500 10042ms
> 09-24 02:34PM 09.730 /_ah/queue/deferred 500 10026ms
> 09-24 02:34PM 09.384 /_ah/queue/deferred 500 10003ms
> 09-24 02:34PM 09.339 /_ah/queue/deferred 500 10011ms
> 09-24 02:34PM 08.879 /_ah/queue/deferred 500 10081ms
> 09-24 02:34PM 07.925 /_ah/queue/deferred 500 10026ms
> 09-24 02:34PM 06.968 /_ah/queue/deferred 500 10001ms
> 09-24 02:34PM 04.180 /_ah/queue/deferred 500 10058ms
> 09-24 02:34PM 02.697 /_ah/queue/deferred 500 10053ms
>
> j
>
> On Sep 24, 12:51 pm, "Ikai Lan (Google)" 
> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Thanks James, that's really useful information. Did you post how many QPS
> > your application does?
>
> > --
> > Ikai Lan
> > Developer Programs Engineer, Google App Engine
> > Blogger:http://googleappengine.blogspot.com
> > Reddit:http://www.reddit.com/r/appengine
> > Twitter:http://twitter.com/app_engine
>
> > On Fri, Sep 24, 2010 at 2:48 PM, James Saull  wrote:
> > > Even on Python pages using Django templates (such my "About" page that
> > > did not access anything (e.g. memcache or db) I still had the dreaded
> > > failures. Sporadic too. I'd be clicking around the app briskly with no
> > > issues and then a few minutes later it would just return 500. All URLs
> > > on my site require Admin/Login at the moment as it is not released and
> > > therefore gets very low traffic - just me testing. Whilst all this was
> > > going on the dashboard access was fine and I could use the dashboard's
> > > data viewer page no problem either.
>
> > > Here is a successful get for a URL that does use memcache and db:
> > > 09-21 11:22PM 48.003 /food/view 200 68ms 79cpu_ms 3kb Mozilla/5.0
>
> > > but often got:
>
> > > 09-23 01:27AM 52.163 /food/view 500 10011ms 0cpu_ms 0kb
> > > 09-22 07:56AM 06.435 /food/view 500 10173ms 0cpu_ms 0kb Mozilla/5.0
> > > 09-22 07:55AM 38.587 /food/view 500 27768ms 0cpu_ms 0kb Mozilla/5.0
> > > 09-22 07:22AM 05.410 /food/view 500 10009ms 0cpu_ms 0kb Mozilla/5.0
> > > 09-22 07:21AM 55.090 /food/view 500 10069ms 0cpu_ms 0kb Mozilla/5.0
> > > 09-21 03:12PM 43.961 /food/view 500 10413ms 0cpu_ms 0kb Mozilla/5.0
> > > 09-21 03:06PM 45.757 /food/view 500 10036ms 0cpu_ms 0kb Mozilla/5.0
> > > 09-21 01:10AM 21.571 /food/view 302 2ms 0cpu_ms 0kb Mozilla/5.0
>
> > > Request was aborted after waiting too long to attempt to service your
> > > request. This may happen sporadically when the App Engine serving
> > > cluster is under unexpectedly high or uneven load. If you see this
> > > message frequently, please contact the App Engine team.
>
> > > Even the simple About page that is just a django template:
> > > 09-23 07:19AM 20.750 /content/about 200 82ms 0cpu_ms
> > > 09-23 02:54AM 27.894 /content/about 500 10002ms 0cpu_ms 0kb Mozilla/
> > > 5.0
> > > 09-23 01:57AM 00.374 /content/about 200 78ms 0cpu_ms
> > > 09-23 12:59AM 54.452 /content/about 500 10085ms 0cpu_ms 0kb Mozilla/
> > > 5.0
> > > 09-23 12:32AM 26.253 /content/about 200 4597ms 20cpu_ms 2kb Mozilla/
> > > 5.0
> > > 09-21 03:07PM 12.443 /content/about 500 10188ms 0cpu_ms 0kb Mozilla/
> > > 5.0
>
> > > Request was aborted after waiting too long to attempt to service your
> > > request. This may happen sporadically when the App Engine serving
> > > cluster is under unexpectedly high or uneven load. If you see this
> > > message frequently, please contact the App Engine team.
>
> > > HTH?
>
> > > --
> > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> > > "Google App Engine" group.
> > > To post to this group, send email to google-appeng...@googlegroups.

[google-appengine] Re: deploy time out...

[Raymond C.]

Its happening to quite a number of people as I heard.

On Sep 25, 11:01 am, Jason King  wrote:
> I've been having problems deploying my app.  Of course, as I write
> this, it finally deployed.  My two previous attempts today resulted in
> an apparent exception after about 10 mins of failing to deploy.  Has
> there been an issue today or is this just happening to me...
>
> Cloned 700 files.
> Deploying new version.
> Checking if new version is ready to serve.
> Will check again in 1 seconds.
> Checking if new version is ready to serve.
> Will check again in 2 seconds.
> Checking if new version is ready to serve.
> Will check again in 4 seconds.
> Checking if new version is ready to serve.
> Will check again in 8 seconds.
> Checking if new version is ready to serve.
> Will check again in 16 seconds.
> Checking if new version is ready to serve.
> Will check again in 32 seconds.
> Checking if new version is ready to serve.
> Will check again in 60 seconds.
> Checking if new version is ready to serve.
> Will check again in 60 seconds.
> Checking if new version is ready to serve.
> Will check again in 60 seconds.
> Checking if new version is ready to serve.
> Will check again in 60 seconds.
> Checking if new version is ready to serve.
> Will check again in 60 seconds.
> Checking if new version is ready to serve.
> Will check again in 60 seconds.
> Checking if new version is ready to serve.
> Will check again in 60 seconds.
> Checking if new version is ready to serve.
> Will check again in 60 seconds.
> Checking if new version is ready to serve.
> Closing update: new version is ready to start serving.
> Uploading index definitions.
> 2010-09-24 19:53:16 (Process exited with code 0)

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[google-appengine] Re: Getting a bunch of DeadlineExceededExceptions

[Raymond C.]

> http://amistrongeryet.com/op_detail.jsp?op=gae_db_readNonTransactional

Woo! a very nice chart, clearly shows there is something wrong after
the maintenance.

Btw thanks so much for the appengine team fixing the datastore issue,
it has been very stable for the past two hours.


On Sep 29, 8:56 am, Eli Jones  wrote:
> A post was made to gae-appengine-downtime-notify indicating that a change
> was made to the datastore to reduce the latency spikes that have cropped up
> since the Sept 13th maintenance.
>
> See this latency chart from a guy who keeps stats on a lot of the cloud
> providers:
>
> http://amistrongeryet.com/op_detail.jsp?op=gae_db_readNonTransactional
>
> The
> big red line is the 99th percentile datastore non-transactional read time
> (i.e. it correlates somewhat to the latency spikes).  You can see on Sept
> 13th that latency spikes increased drastically suddenly.. calmed down
> slightly.. and then proceeded to get worse and worse until just a few hours
> ago.  So, something definitely went well.
>
> Hopefully this translates to everyone else getting some respite from these
> spikes as well..  For my part, I noticed a drastic change in app performance
> today right after 1:50 PM EST..
>
> Check here to see performance of other services like Simple DB.. etc:
>
> http://amistrongeryet.com/dashboard.jsp
>
> On Tue, Sep 28, 2010 at 7:41 PM, nischalshetty 
> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Yeah, I've been facing datastore issues as well. I've been facing all
> > sorts of issues today ranging from twitter blocking appengine IPs to
> > elevated deadline exceptions to twitter API returning 500: something
> > is broken to TechCrunch being sold to AOL!!!
>
> > Mann, some days can really be bad, losing a lot of money and sleep
> > over this, hope to see some good times ahead :)
>
> > -Nischal
>
> > On Sep 29, 1:25 am, Daniel  wrote:
> > > I've seen a bunch all day.  The datastore is struggling.
>
> > > On Sep 28, 4:08 pm, Alexander M  wrote:
>
> > > > Yes, I have been seeing a lot of these too
>
> > --
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[google-appengine] Re: Severe latency errors again

[Raymond C.]

Same issue for my apps as well.

On Oct 5, 2:17 pm, David  wrote:
> Today I've gotten a recent spike in many requests timing out taking
> longer than 30 seconds trying to update a single entity in the data
> store.  I only have a single index on two properties that aren't
> related to that entity being updated.  This is starting to really be
> frustrating for my users and I.  I have a paid app engine account and
> a number of issues reported that just seem to be ignored (3721 is the
> one about latency and errors).  Support seems to almost zero with app
> engine and there doesn't appear to be a phone number that I can call
> that I could find.  My application id is word-play.appspot.com.  Can
> anyone help?
>
> Thanks,
> David

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[google-appengine] AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'defaulttags'

[Raymond C.]

The error keep prompting on my app now which has been running for more
than a month.  Something happening on appengine servers?

Traceback:

File "/base/python_runtime/python_lib/versions/1/google/appengine/ext/
webapp/template.py", line 81, in render
return t.render(Context(template_dict))
  File "/base/python_runtime/python_lib/versions/1/google/appengine/
ext/webapp/template.py", line 116, in wrap_render
URLNode = django.template.defaulttags.URLNode
AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'defaulttags'

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[google-appengine] Re: TaskQueue bulkAdd failing fairly regularly since 1.3.8

[Raymond C.]

And now task queue is down...

On Oct 21, 11:28 am, "yo...@radioactive" 
wrote:
> Hi guys,
>
> I keep getting these errors : "com.google.apphosting.api.ApiProxy
> $ApiDeadlineExceededException: The API call taskqueue.BulkAdd() took
> too long to respond and was cancelled." since the 1.3.8 release (never
> encountered it before).
>
> The system status says TaskQueue is doing just fine but regularly
> (every 1-2 hours or so) my queue.add will consistently fail and this
> will last for a while (i get hundreds of errors in my log).
>
> Anything that changed that I should be aware of ?
>
> Appreciate any response.
>
> Thanks,

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[google-appengine] Re: "The server encountered an error" ?

[Raymond C.]

Thanks GAE team for the quick action~

On Oct 28, 11:12 am, Sundar  wrote:
> And now it's all ok. It's amazing how well it works when it does, and how I
> have crazy anxiety when things go wonky on GAE :)
>
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 11:04 PM, Sundar  wrote:
> > Would a state of "elevated" for datastor or task queues affect deployments?
> > I'm unable to deploy my app.
>
> > On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 11:02 PM, blackpawn 
> > wrote:
>
> >> yep me too.  system status says there is an Anomaly with the Datastore
> >> that is being investigated.  :O
>
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[google-appengine] Anyone happy with the new pricing?

[Raymond C.]

I believe everyone who have been using GAE for their business have been 
using it because we have faint on Google that Google will make it a great 
service for us.

Not much people complained about the HR new pricing because we had a choice 
to stay at the current one.
Now the pricing is going to go up for a few times to what we have been 
paying and we DONT have a choice.  We used to care about our code only to 
make it consume as few CPU as possible.  Now we are going to calculate how 
to minimize the cost without angering our consumer for having not enough 
instances.

We chose to lockup ourself within the GAE infra-struture in the past because 
we believed in Google.  Now what we get in return?

(I still love the GAE team but sorry, I am really disappointed about the new 
pricing before Google can show us how good it is for us.) 

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[google-appengine] Re: New pricing question: Will we be charged for idle time of instance hours?

[Raymond C.]

It looks like 0.5 hour to me (if its like the instance pricing model of 
backends).  If its by minute or even only the run time, then its a total 
loss for Google for having faster machine in the future.

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[google-appengine] Re: 1.5 improvements Make me less scared of Pricing

[Raymond C.]

But still 6 instances for 13 QPS (2.22 x 6) sounds stupid to me if the 
pricing will be instance based.  A single regular class VPS can handle at 
least like 30+ QPS.

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Re: [google-appengine] Backends and the task queue

[Raymond C.]

I think Greg means a single RPC call (a function call to taskqueue add)

On backends you can do infinite RPC call with no timeout so there is no 
limit on how many task queue is added, just 100 in a batch (call).

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[google-appengine] So Google want us to make use of the instances? Give us the tools to do that!

[Raymond C.]

The original design of AppEngine is pay for what you use.  Obviously the new 
pricing model (min 15 min instance charge, "low latency over resources 
usage") is going after the "pay for the machines you use" model.

If this is the case, it is so stupid to me that the original language of the 
choice of AppEngine (python) is single threaded on AppEngine.  Google should 
also update their platform alongside with the new pricing so we could make 
full use of the machine resources.  Non-blocking server like tornado 
(http://www.tornadoweb.org/) or node.js have proven that a single machine 
can do a lot of thing. I hate to see the new pricing goes into effect 
without platform update that let us make us of the "machines" that we are 
paying for.


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[google-appengine] Re: FAQ for out of preview pricing changes

[Raymond C.]

250ms / request means you get MAX 4 request/seconds once it shift to 
instance based pricing. Thats what 1 instance can serve.  Your "per day" 
concept only applies to CPU based pricing (the current model)

A single entity db.get + db.put can cost you more than 250ms sometimes. 

Many people in this group are already paying for AppEngine with a price 
comparable to other hosting.  Its the (current) way AppEngine works makes us 
stay.  "Be charity!" is a stupid defend which assume ppl are not paying for 
anything here.

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[google-appengine] Is MapReduce still a flexible solution on AppEngine under the new pricing model?

[Raymond C.]

As I know MapReduce rely on a relative large number of instances (on top of 
the normal traffic) to perform the calculation efficiently in parallel. 
 Under the new pricing model each instance will cost you 15min idle time 
after the job is done.  Therefore 15min times n instances are wasted (cost 
you without using them).  If n=8 (for a relatively small and slow task), 
there will be an additional cost of $0.16 just for one MapReduce operation. 
 It will be very costly if you are doing sth like hourly job like reporting. 
 8 instances will cost you $115.2/month for hourly MapReduce task, which is 
*in additional* to the cost of the actual run time, just for MapReduce 
tasks.

My question is, is it still a flexible mechanism on AppEngine?  Or we should 
rely on external service to do these kind of calculation? (complex but could 
be more cost effective?)


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[google-appengine] Re: High execution time

[Raymond C.]

My application got 10% error during the last 18 hours. All uses db.put and 
db.get

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[google-appengine] Re: FAQ for out of preview pricing changes

[Raymond C.]

Regarding the new backends feature, I think its not only expensive, but very 
inefficient.  With the same cost we could rent a decent machine which does 
unlimited thing and handle thousands of request per second with web server 
like Tornado.  AppEngine backend instance can only handle one request at a 
time (python/go).  You need each request to finish within 1ms to handle more 
than one thousand request per second.  With datastore operation, less than 
100ms (i.e. handle 10 requests per second) is already nearly impossible.

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[google-appengine] Google removing posts that raised concerns on the new pricing model?

[Raymond C.]

I noticed some threads that we have expressed our disappointments on the new 
pricing model got deleted without any notice.  Not to mention the same 
happened to the blog post as some user have reported 
(http://googleappengine.blogspot.com/2011/05/year-ahead-for-google-app-engine.html?showComment=1305435738777#c6941028597373000966)

Truly disappointed on Google doing this.  

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Re: [google-appengine] Rudimentary New Pricing Analysis

[Raymond C.]

By "GAE provides you much more", you mean much more *limitation* right?

The cost on setup is trivial for a long run application when compared to the 
hosting cost.  I dont think the high price worth that cost for long term.

Also remember a GAE instance allows you to handle exactly one request at a 
time.  The cost is not just 4X or 8X, but 40X or 80X if one instance on EC2 
can handle 10 requests at a time, which is normally much higher than this 
number.

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Re: [google-appengine] Is MapReduce still a flexible solution on AppEngine under the new pricing model?

[Raymond C.]

> 2) If you doing a regular  job, then reserved instances would most
likely save you money.

But you pay for 24hr per days for each reserved instance even you are not 
using them.  So in my hourly report case, instead of wasting 15 min x N 
instance per hour, you are going to waste 45 min x N instance if the 
MapReduce task finish in 15 min ( more if the task complete earlier). 
 Reserved instance cost 5/8, that means reserved instance will cost you 5/8 
x 3 = 1.8 times on the idle CPU.

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Re: RE: [google-appengine] Re: Price comparison between GAE, EC2 & Azure

[Raymond C.]

By "asp.net is slow", and "efficient language", are you comparing with java? 
the only language that will has concurrency support in GAE atm.

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[google-appengine] Re: get_by_id issue?

[Raymond C.]

do it has a parent entity which makes get_by_id failed?

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Re: [google-appengine] Updated App Engine Pricing FAQ!

[Raymond C.]

I agree with most Nick said, especially on (2) and (3)

Hi Greg,

Regarding your points made on "*(3) How can you justify your instance price 
when compared with Amazon EC2?*":

We have been given up a lot on the power and flexibility for using GAE (e.g. 
30 second limit, no socket support, no external SMTP for free email, no 
custom binary lib, no non-blocking runtime with python, etc etc).  Given 
Google has full control on how the platform behaves (so on how our apps 
behave) and added so many limitations, I expect GAE to be cheaper than IAAS 
like AWS.  Unfortunately its the other way around (also note that AWS is 
pretty expensive among all the IAAS out there).

Of course you can charge for whatever you like, but I can hardly think 
anyone would be picking GAE in the future with such an uncompetitive pricing 
and added limitations, on such a unique environment that takes you months or 
years to adapt which you can take it nowhere else.


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[google-appengine] Re: Google Plus

[Raymond C.]

It still shows "Already invited? We've temporarily exceeded our capacity. 
Please try again soon." for me.

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[google-appengine] 回覆：Worried about performance of an HTTP based game.

[Raymond C.]

If the "2000 players" data can fit into one entity you may use one entity to 
store all players' data.  Otherwise, I would say what you want to do is not 
suitable to be done on AppEngine, which the datastore designed to scale but 
not fast and write often. (in your case which is 2000 record updates every 
10 seconds)

There are definitely workarounds and tricks you can employ to workaround all 
the AppEngine's limitation.  However, if you have not started yet, you 
should definitely consider to do it on other platform first because it would 
be hundred times easier.  Especially you are using Python which the future 
is not certain yet on AppEngine.






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[google-appengine] 回覆：Re: Not able to copy data from an app to another

[Raymond C.]

I was not able to copy data from M/S to HR neither.  The operation 
(mapreduce tasks) looked like to be running fine but nothing is in the 
target app after the operation.


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[google-appengine] 回覆：Re: Worried about performance of an HTTP based game.

[Raymond C.]

In theory it would work, but in reality how much it would cost?

An typical entity write to datastore cost sth like 100ms on M/S which would 
be even higher for HR.  2000 entity means 200,000/ms.  Therefore if it would 
be done every 10 seconds, it would occupy at least 20 always active 
instances just for the DB write operations (in theory).  Together with game 
logic and communication with front end servers the number of instances that 
the game will need would be a lot higher.  I dont think the cost that 
involved is flexible on AppEngine.


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回覆：RE: [google-appengine] 回覆：Worried about performance of an HTTP based game.

[Raymond C.]

I just dont know how much my python apps will cost on AppEngine under the 
new pricing.  Yes, they promised new scheduler, they promised python 
concurrency, but we dont see anything yet except just a new pricing model 
that will not be good for python apps.

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[google-appengine] 回覆：Re: 回覆：Re: Not able to copy data from an app to another

[Raymond C.]

anyone from Google can update sth about this?

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[google-appengine] Re: 回覆：Re: 回覆：Re: Not able to copy data from an app to another

[Raymond C.]

Can someone from Google confirm if the script is working again?  A quick 
test seems to be working but I am not sure if there are any hidden problem 
in using it now.

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[google-appengine] [BadRequestError: app s~ABC cannot access app s~ABC's data]

[Raymond C.]

 [BadRequestError: app s~ABC cannot access app s~ABC's data]

I have seen this exception twice now.  Anyone have seen it too?  It looks 
strange as it says the application cannot access its own data.  ("ABC" is my 
app id) 

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Re: [google-appengine] [BadRequestError: app s~ABC cannot access app s~ABC's data]

[Raymond C.]

Ya its on HR

it was s~ABC to s~ABC.  Thats why its strange.  I saw it only twice though, 
all other similar requests had no problem.

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[google-appengine] Serious problem: Rollback of data on HRD

[Raymond C.]

I have recently ran into a problem after migrating to HRD:

My application is a social online game which I have recently migrated from 
M/S to HR Datastore around 3 weeks ago.  Since 2 weeks ago I have started 
receiving reports from players which their game progress are rolled back 
suddenly while playing, which progress made in the recent few days are 
missing.  I have verified the problem through data on other entities (in 
different entity group) that the reports are actually legit and at least 
several days of progress are actually rolled back (with updates to the 
entities in the last few days are all missing).

Player's data in the game are retrieved through id ( 
Player.get_by_id(player_id) ) and because the gap is so large (days) I 
believe it is not a problem on my code (nowhere in my code cache player's 
data).

It has never happened before for nearly 1 year so I am guessing if it is 
related to HRD.  I remember there was a thread here before which reported 
data being rolled back on HRD but I can not find it anymore.

As you know with AppEngine datastore's distributed nature, it is so hard to 
monitor this kind of problem to ensure the problem exist.  I would like to 
ask if anyone has ran into this problem as well or suspect that you have had 
this problem before with your HRD application?

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Re: [google-appengine] Serious problem: Rollback of data on HRD

[Raymond C.]

Since they are player's data and they will be keep updating the entity, is 
it still useful if I give you the app id + key of the entities once they are 
already updated after a rolled back?

The entity is actually relatively large (historically problem on the 
design), may I know what could happen for large entities? and is it only on 
HRD?

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[google-appengine] Re: Serious problem: Rollback of data on HRD

[Raymond C.]

I do notice there are a lot of "Transaction collision. Retying..." warning 
in my app, but I thought those are "ok to ignore" warning.  I just noticed 
that it wasnt there while at M/S though. 

I have no idea if those warning makes my db.put() fail or not though.  Since 
you are mentioning it, I realized that there are quite a number of support 
emails from players recently saying that their items are not in their 
inventory after acquiring them, which is after migrating to HRD.

It looks like the problem is more serious than I thought. 

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[google-appengine] Re: Estimated Charges Under New Pricing

[Raymond C.]

For mine (python): 317%

I think I am forced to leave GAE to EC2.  

Current Charge:
---
Resource Used Free Billable Charge
CPU Time: 
$0.10/CPU hour 299.35 6.50 292.85 $29.29
Bandwidth Out: 
$0.12/GByte 5.43 1.00 4.43 $0.54
Bandwidth In: 
$0.10/GByte 1.90 1.00 0.90 $0.09
Stored Data: 
$0.005/GByte-day 0.00 1.00 0.00 $0.00
Recipients Emailed: 
$0.10/1000 Emails 0.00 2.00 0.00 $0.00
High Replication Storage:
$0.008/GByte-day 52.74 0.50 52.24 $0.42
Backend Usage: 
Prices $0.00 $0.72 $0.00 $0.00
Always On: 
$0.30/Day No - - $0.00
Total: $30.34
-

Estimated Charges Under New Pricing:
-
Resource Used Free Billable Charge
Frontend Instance Hours:
$0.04/Hour 1,090.81 24.00 1,066.81 $42.68
Backend Instance Hours: 
$0.08/Hour 0.00 9.00 0.00 $0.00
Datastore Storage: 
$0.008/GByte-day 52.74 1.00 51.74 $0.42
Blobstore Storage: 
$0.0057/GByte-day 0.00 5.00 0.00 $0.00
Datastore Writes: 
$1.00/Million Ops 34.28 0.05 34.23 $34.23
Datastore Reads: 
$0.70/Million Ops 25.85 0.05 25.80 $18.06
Small Datastore Operations: 
$0.10/Million Ops 1.94 0.05 1.89 $0.19
Bandwidth In: 
$0.10/GByte 1.90 1.00 0.90 $0.09
Bandwidth Out: 
$0.15/GByte 5.43 1.00 4.43 $0.67
Emails: 
$0.01/100 Messages 0.00 1.00 0.00 $0.00
XMPP Stanzas: 
$0.01/1000 Stanzas 0.00 1.00 0.00 $0.00
Opened Channels: 
$0.01/100 Opens 0.00 1.00 0.00 $0.00
Total*: (before clipping to daily budget) $96.34
-


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[google-appengine] Re: A comparison of your current bill against the new pricing model is now available in the Billing History page.

[Raymond C.]

Just Datastore Writes alone is costing me more than before.

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[google-appengine] Re: New pricing will cost me over 500 $ monthly for my three sites... I am floored.

[Raymond C.]

Each EC2 instance can serve a lot more traffic than AppEngine instance (2 
for python at a time at this moment).  I would say AppEngine instances are a 
lot more expensive (not to mention much more limitation).

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[google-appengine] Keep it short: Who is forced to leave GAE?

[Raymond C.]

I am not asking who is not happy with the new pricing (virtually most of GAE 
users).

I am just asking who is FORCED to leave GAE because you cannot afford to 
keep running on GAE under the new pricing model.  Please (if possible) state 
the monthly price change as well.

And what options you are considering?

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[google-appengine] Re: Keep it short: Who is forced to leave GAE?

[Raymond C.]

I am one of them.  Monthly charge: $900  -> $2850 (310%)

I have been looking at EC2, every cost is clear and I can control over 
everything.

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Keep it short: Who is forced to leave GAE?

[Raymond C.]

I am.  Maybe check again when the new concurrency function come out.  But 
the new pricing is coming this month...

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Re: [google-appengine] Keep it short: Who is forced to leave GAE?

[Raymond C.]

Hi Peter,

Could you share about the Database/Datastore experiences as well? What are 
the options on RackSpace Cloud and are they good/stable (went through the 
site but didnt see much info)?  I am highly interested in node.js, its just 
the database options concern me.

Thanks in advance.

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[google-appengine] Re: Keep it short: Who is forced to leave GAE?

[Raymond C.]

I have been using PubNub.  I skipped GAE Channels after knowing all the 
limitation, esp. its just for the browser.  PubNub has everything I need, 
fast and being able to message to multiple users at once.

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Re: [google-appengine] Keep it short: Who is forced to leave GAE?

[Raymond C.]

I dont know about Beacon Push, but with PubNub, everything could be dynamic, 
all "channels" are just a string which you can pre-calculate or dynamically 
allocate as you wish. 

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Estimated Charges Under New Pricing

[Raymond C.]

As I said in another thread, under the new pricing model, datastore write 
charge is already over what I am paying now.   And tweaking those scheduler 
stuff wont reduce your 3x-4x pricing so much.

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[google-appengine] Re: App Engine is finished, here's why

[Raymond C.]

I see it's end too:

- those who are leaving will absolutely never look back again
- those who left will never recommend anyone to use GAE again or even 
recommend to stay away from Google's product because of the awful experience
- if GAE havent took off in the past 3 years, I dont see why it will after 
this change
-> a platform with not enough user will just being faded out naturally

GAE has never been a supervisor product in my opinion.  We bet on Google, 
hoped for the best, and now Google intend to destroy everything we've built 
in the past three years.


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[google-appengine] Re: Small Datastore Operations = $50.00 per day??

[Raymond C.]

Woo what is the "Small Datastore Operations" cost means?  Mine is much lower 
than the "Datastore Writes" charge.

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[google-appengine] Re: Keep it short: Who is forced to leave GAE?

[Raymond C.]

Check the other posts in the thread.  Peoples using Java are seeing the 
similar dramatic increases as well.
And for those using Python, the preview price is having the instance charge 
reduced by 50% already.  

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[google-appengine] Re: App Engine is finished, here's why

[Raymond C.]

There are quite some PAAS/IAAS options out there which don't require you to 
have "a team of people who will fix issues at 4AM in 
the morning"

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[google-appengine] Re: Datastore admin still broken with "too many redirects"

[Raymond C.]

Looks like cookies problem to me.  (On Safari) Open the iframe once in a 
separate window and it would be ok afterwards.

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[google-appengine] Re: App Engine is finished, here's why

[Raymond C.]

Heroku could be the most famous one.  Its seems to have good fame on its 
free tier for small and quick web apps.

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[google-appengine] Re: Keep it short: Who is forced to leave GAE?

[Raymond C.]

Yes we are waiting to see how multi-threading affect things, but we will be 
paying for the new charge THIS MONTH.

There are many free tool to monitor and scale your AWS automatically, which 
you can has complete control if you wish to tune them.  Linking them is a 
trivial setup, at least much easier than learning to work with the bigtable 
datastore on GAE.  If you have problem setting up AWS to scale, I dont think 
you are smart enough to use GAE well.

Not to mention that there are PAAS like Heroku which works like GAE without 
the ridiculous pricing and concurrency limitation.

Why lock yourself into GAE if you are targeting enterprise-scaling?  You 
still have faith in Google after this?  Every enterprise start as a small 
startup, and I think thats why Google started GAE.  But now they are now 
killing startup, losing the initial vision.

Ya your right, we are all naive and didn't get the meaning of "preview" as 
"we are going to charge you high once you have locked yourself in by 
becoming our tester".  Who would have used GAE if they knew this?



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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Keep it short: Who is forced to leave GAE?

[Raymond C.]

I think Google's stance has been quite clear after all the posts from 
Google's employees: GAE is now targeting enterprise only, i.e. companies 
that have plenty of money to spend on hosting web apps without the need to 
make money through itself, because their main revenue stream is from else 
where.  (tell me how royal-wedding-bells-in-cloud can make a turnover from 
its insane cost)

If you are a startup or companies that are planning to make a business by 
hosting an your applications on GAE, you are doing it WRONG. 


But then I wonder, which company is so stupid that having so much money to 
spend on hosting web apps on GAE, but dont bother to spend a tiny portion of 
it to hire a system admin to host applications on AWS given that it is:
- not locked in
- you are having all the controls
- you can use whatever you want
- you can do whatever you like (socket on GAE? long polling? event based 
server? push notification to iOS?)
- you know the price will only go down by time
- its a much larger community

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[google-appengine] Re: Really Terribly Designed Pricing Page

[Raymond C.]

I used to recommend every developers around to use GAE because its the best 
cloud platform by design.  Now i truly feel sorry to all of them and telling 
them I am quitting all Google's product.

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[google-appengine] Even the HR Datastore is (slightly) having performance issue now.

[Raymond C.]

http://code.google.com/status/appengine/detail/hr-datastore/2011/09/01#ae-trust-detail-hr-datastore-query-latency

Compare it to half a year before:
http://code.google.com/status/appengine/detail/hr-datastore/2011/03/01#ae-trust-detail-hr-datastore-query-latency

It seems to me that HRD was so stable because there was not much 
applications on it (just like back in the day M/S was not having so many 
downtime and performance issues)

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Keep it short: Who is forced to leave GAE?

[Raymond C.]

I know scaling has traditionally been not an easy task, but it is a lot 
easier on IAAS because not only you can scale out with just a few click, but 
you can also scale up using a powerful instance type.  I know quite a number 
of local small companies in person that are doing great business on AWS in 
terms of scaling with just a few powerful EC2 instances, that the price is 
much more effective than running on GAE because each EC2 instance can do a 
lot of things.

GAE was designed to only scale out to support a large number of users, which 
each instance can do very little thing (e.g. one process per instance at a 
time).  Thats why the original pricing model make sense because we dont have 
to care how GAE run our code.

Maybe listen to the guys from stackoverflow talk about scaling up is more 
convincing:
http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2008/12/my-scaling-hero.html
http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2009/06/scaling-up-vs-scaling-out-hidden-costs.html

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[google-appengine] Re: Even the HR Datastore is (slightly) having performance issue now.

[Raymond C.]

No, actually I migrated to HR earlier (was an awful experience with 30+hrs 
downtime.  trial run took 8hrs only with the same data).

I am just trying to give an signal to everyone before something bad could 
hit us again.  Maybe GAE team could do sth before it happen.

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: A comparison of your current bill against the new pricing model is now available in the Billing History page.

[Raymond C.]

Yes thats a really strong point that you SHOULD NOT over-doing 
"indexed=False".  You will regret one day you found that you dont even have 
a way to query sth extremely simple, like for debugging.

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[google-appengine] Re: App Engine will not be leaving preview prior to Sept 26th

[Raymond C.]

So I would translate it to "new pricing will be effective starting 27th 
Sept".

Sorry I am not trying to be ridiculous, but thats what you did for 
announcing price change back at May with so many unknown and now announcing 
it effective within one month, while most of the issues are still not yet 
resolved.


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[google-appengine] Re: Azure is changing its prices too

[Raymond C.]

I think you can make use of all the resources you are paying for is already 
a big big BIG plus over GAE.  

Who care much about the language?  Many of us started using Python after 
choosing GAE.  And they are now even asking us to learn GO.

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Re: [google-appengine] Looking for ideas on eliminating instance use

[Raymond C.]

Be noted that Google Storage is in PREVIEW.  Did GAE teach us sth?

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Re: [google-appengine] Keep it short: Who is forced to leave GAE?

[Raymond C.]

Thx for introducing DotCloud.com

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[google-appengine] Re: I remember I ever read somewhere in gae documents, which says google internal apps also run on app engine

[Raymond C.]

I would guess Google Groups (at least the new version) is now on GAE.  If 
you have been using Google Groups for a long time, you would have noticed 
that Google Groups now has removed some functionalities (because of GAE 
limitation I guess) and there are occasional timeout now (used to be very 
stable).

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Re: [google-appengine] Why app engine new price model is totally wrong

[Raymond C.]

Do you realize that you can do everything with the EC2 instances?  For 
example, you can use the extra 1.5GB memory of "Small Instance" on EC2 for a 
much more reliable memcache that you dont need to be afraid to be cleared by 
Google at any time.

Also, *most API of GAE are NOT FREE*.  You are not just paying for the 
instances.  Check you billing history if you really are using GAE.

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[google-appengine] Re: Keep it short: Who is forced to leave GAE?

[Raymond C.]

>30 million requests per day?  Hundreds of CPU-hours per day?  Terabytes of 
data 
served per day? 

Which messages you are referring too?



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[google-appengine] Re: Keep it short: Who is forced to leave GAE?

[Raymond C.]

No one is saying we should not be charged.  The discussion is: are those 
number reasonable?

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[google-appengine] Re: The *real* cost of the new billing prices

[Raymond C.]

You are not alone.  I suppose EVERY AppEngine guys should be regretting what 
they have said and done in the past 3 years.

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[google-appengine] Re: The *real* cost of the new billing prices

[Raymond C.]

Glad there is someone not.

Tim, would you mind sharing your data on the price change? I mean the 
numbers that makes you still think GAE is a good platform for you to stay.

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[google-appengine] Re: The *real* cost of the new billing prices

[Raymond C.]

Thanks so much for your reply.  Congratulates you still find yourself fit in 
the new pricing model.  Unfortunately I dont find it myself.  The money I 
will be paying for under the new price allows me to rent several powerful 
servers on rackspace or EC2, just to serve 30-60 requests per second. (The 
high cost is due to high amount of small requests plus large amount of 
database writes)  

I am ok to build my own stack since its just one off and it also gives a lot 
of flexibility (like I dont need to rely on UrbanAirship for iPhone push 
notification anymore, thats another cost).

Auto scale is always a good thing, but not with this ridiculous amount of 
money.  There are so many free or low cost replacement on the other cloud 
platform that do the same thing.




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[google-appengine] Re: Porting App Engine app to other provider - ideas and discussion

[Raymond C.]

Regarding hosting options, I am looking at rackspace since there are many 
successful businesses outside are using it.  Now looking at if I should 
switch to node.js or keep running python on the new server.

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Re: [google-appengine] frontend instance specs

[Raymond C.]

As far as I can remember, I dont think we have seen the CPU spec neither.  1.2 
GHz CPU is used for calculate the CPU time we consumed in the old pricing 
model.  Back in the day we dont (need to) care how fast the CPU runs. 

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[google-appengine] Re: Is Google killing GAE?

[Raymond C.]

There was a theory that GAE was started using Google's own infra-structure 
so they can absorb startups who run on GAE easily.  E.g. Think about if 
twitter was started on GAE, if they dont enough revenue to keep running it, 
Google can take it and make its own service without any technical 
transition.

I think that vision has gone with the colleagues (if it did exist).

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[google-appengine] Re: Is Google killing GAE?

[Raymond C.]

I dont think Google want to kill GAE at this moment.  However I would say 
they have given up growing of the platform anymore.  As I said in another 
thread, if GAE hasn't take off in the past 3 years, I dont see how it would 
under the new pricing model.  A platform without user base just die by time.

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[google-appengine] Re: The whole instances pricing thing is too complicated for average brains like mine

[Raymond C.]

I agree the instance based pricing is too complicated because of the nature 
of how GAE works.  On GAE we have no control on resources, Google control it 
all. What we can control is what our code does during the life time within a 
request.  

On instance based pricing (the upcoming one) all we are ASKED to do is to 
make our request return faster.  However there are many area we cannot 
control regarding the time: datastore wait time, URL fetch (the only way to 
communicate between backends and frontend instance), etc

GAE have been charging for CPU time for all operations because thats what we 
can almost fully control (except extra datastore performance due to google's 
server performance), thats why most GAE users (at least the heavy users) 
think the old charge model make more sense, even GAE charge us more on CPU 
based pricing.

Many of us have raised the concern from the beginning that instance based is 
not how GAE works.  Still they are going for it without a valid reason, at 
least without much reasonable reasons (to me).  There are so many methods to 
charge us for using their machines or occupying the memory of their 
machines, yet they go for a way thats not how GAE works.

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Keep it short: Who is forced to leave GAE?

[Raymond C.]

The articles are not here to say HOW TO SCALE.  I was just saying scaling up 
is much easier and effective than scaling out.  You can scale up with just a 
few clicks on IAAS like AWS, without ever considering scaling out, to 
support a heavy site.

GAE can only does scale out, because its how its designed.  But saying GAE 
can scale while the other platforms can't do it easily is just wrong.

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[google-appengine] Re: GAE pricing is not suited for smaller apps

[Raymond C.]

Tim, I just curious why you think $30/month for hosing a site that has 
"(40-100 visitors a day on average, 100-250 pages views a day)" is 
reasonable?  I suppose you know with that money you can host over a thousand 
sites with that amount of traffic on a single machine elsewhere right?

Or just because you dont want to migrate out from GAE because you dont care 
to spend a thousand times more money?

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[google-appengine] Re: GAE pricing is not suited for smaller apps

[Raymond C.]

I think you are definitely the target users of GAE, having money to spend 
without caring the price. ("its cheap compared to the revenue i earn from *
elsewhere*")

You raised some good points of GAE though, but my point is still "the price 
doesnt worth it".  You can host the same tiny site on heroku or AWS without 
costing you a buck.



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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Keep it short: Who is forced to leave GAE?

[Raymond C.]

I started on GAE because of the same reason of you (PAAS without all the 
managing stuff).  Why I see GAE negatively now is that the price is over 
expensive and the pricing model is wrong (or at least not like when I 
started using it).  Isn't that obvious?  And there are no conflict between 
the two.  Why you think raising negative comments under this situation is 
wrong? 

We are not someone who just came in and say "you sucks" to Google.  We are 
the customers and testers who have been using and helped GAE from the early 
days till today.


We are providing no constructive suggestions?  We have been doing it all 
over the forum in the past few months.  Or you just think "saying sth good 
about the new pricing" is constructive suggestions?

What I am doing here (and maybe many other who are raising concerns now) is 
because we want Google to change their mind by realizing the problems that 
the change is producing.  Of course we will go if Google insists to use the 
new pricing models and if it dont fit us, but at least we are still trying 
before it is too late.


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[google-appengine] Re: GAE pricing is not suited for smaller apps

[Raymond C.]

Woo...Tim, your talk is getting annoying. "What have you been smoking ?"? I 
think it's a question you should ask yourself.  

How about come back to the discussion after you have real usage on appengine? I 
mean, not hosting a site that get hundreds of pageview a DAY. Instead make a 
popular web app that functions for massive number of users.  Why do you think 
you know the value of appengine so much when you are actually not paying much 
on it?

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[google-appengine] Re: Small enty level VPS and cloud based services v appengine

[Raymond C.]

There are two points need to mention I think:

- GAE instance serve one (or multiple requests on concurrency) requests at a 
time only
- GAE operations (e.g. datastore) charge extra, which depends on what your 
app does.  Currently under the new pricing, more than 50% of the charge of 
my app is for Datastore write and read. (i.e. more than instance charge)

I know its hard to compare GAE with others just by numbers.  But since you 
are doing it...

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[google-appengine] Re: GAE pricing is not suited for smaller apps

[Raymond C.]

Yes I agree it definitely can has its future if doing it right.  Just the 
new pricing at this time is just forcing a number of existing heavy users 
out of the game and never look back.

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Re: 回覆：Re: [google-appengine] Data Transfer to AWS

[Raymond C.]

I think stopping everything and do a complete data dump once and for all is 
the only way to do a migration.  Especially if you are on HR already.

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[google-appengine] Re: Echo the sentiments of another poster

[Raymond C.]

yet they are asking us to wait until many of the new features arrives and 
changes to be made before making further decision...

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