Re: [h-cost] Re: monk underwear
On Mar 17, 2006, at 12:06 AM, Lena wrote: --- Heather Rose Jones <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: There's an even better example in Walter Map's "De Nugis Curialium" where he tells a story of a monk whose order disdained underpants as being too luxurious, so that when he took a tumble in the street he exposed his ... parts for all and sundry to see. Walter gives the moral of the story as something roughly equivalent to "sometimes discretion is the better part of asceticism". Heather Do you know where in De Nugis Curialium this story is? I've been wanting to follow up this reference for quite a while, but the book is reference only, and rather thick, so I can't justify an entire photocopy. In the 1983 Clarendon Press edition edited by M.R. James, I _think_ it's in the section numbered i.25 -- the problem is, the excerpt that I can find in my files at the moment is only bits and pieces with specifically Welsh reference. I think the item I'm remember about the Cisterians and underpants is the one starting at the bottom of page 101 of this edition, but since I'm missing the next page I can't confirm it. I really do need to take the trouble to track down my own copy. The problem is I'm holding out for a bilingual edition with facing page translation like the James edition, and I haven't run across one yet. Heather -- Heather Rose Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.heatherrosejones.com LJ:hrj ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Stomacher --a photo demo
Quoting Melody Watts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: Hi, Did you check out this? http://www.ninyamikhaila.com/Princesselizabeth.html this shows the bodice part without the stomacher/placard pinned on. The visual helps alot, I know I had a hard time wrapping my brain around how the gowns went on, as I kept thinking they laced up the back. This photo group made it all clear to me. You know what lightbulb went on for me? She even says so in the essay -- that's *why* gowns were side-back laced -- not because the bodice fit better, but so that you could have an unbroken neckline! Susan - Susan Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] semi-OT: waiting for books
Mine said Feb. 21 still no book Brin "Lonnie D. Harvel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I ordered the Tudor Tailor. Still waiting on it. They said "March 2006" and it is still March... E House wrote: >Has anyone order and actually received either of these two books? > > > >"The Tudor Tailor" by Ninya Mikhaila et al (pre-ordered from website) >ISBN: ? > > > ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume - Make free worldwide PC-to-PC calls. Try the new Yahoo! Canada Messenger with Voice ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Stomacher --a photo demo
Hi, Did you check out this? http://www.ninyamikhaila.com/Princesselizabeth.html this shows the bodice part without the stomacher/placard pinned on. The visual helps alot, I know I had a hard time wrapping my brain around how the gowns went on, as I kept thinking they laced up the back. This photo group made it all clear to me. melody --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > I was recently made aware of the stomacher from some > previous posts. I make Elizabethan costumes and > though it isn't strictly period I am interested in > learning more about them. I don't have the luxury of > a ladies maid and this invention would definitely > make getting dressed by oneself easier. Can anyone > explain the workings of these, or possibly have a > good picture of how they're attached and how they > cover the laces? Thank-you > Tania > ___ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] Art Hysteria
But it is interesting, like those puzzle books of a few years back, which promised a valuable prize for the clever first person to find it. I saw an analysis of how the winner got his prize and it was every bit as convoluted as this painting's analysis. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Sue Clemenger Sent: Saturday, March 18, 2006 5:51 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Art Hysteria Oh. My. Gawd. It's an English version of that idiotic novel, _The DaVinci Codes_.same sort of bad history and art criticism. --Sue, still sputtering through her breakfast oatmeal ;o) - Original Message - From: "E House" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Historical Costume" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 9:55 PM Subject: [h-cost] Art Hysteria > Just for fun--here's an analysis of a copy of Holbein's sketch of > Thomas More's Family: > http://www.holbeinartworks.org/bfourstmandtpitt.htm > Anyone who makes it all the way through gets a cookie! > > -E House > > ___ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] to dye for
At a Victorian Ball a few years ago someone's daughter wore an actual antique 1860's dress, and all my friends and I could think of was what if it's "arsenic" green! We warned the family not to wear it again just in case Katy On 3/18/06, Bjarne og Leif Drews <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Not a reply to the previous mail about books, but the head`er made me think > about a story i heard about poison dyes. > In about 1840ies i heard there was a new invention with a very bright green > colour. They made wall hangings with this dyed silks and also it became a > very popular colour for fashionable ball dresses. But they didnt realise > that it was a very poisonable dye. The skin would consume the poison. > Have anybody other heard this? > It was a story i heard at Gammel Estrup where they have a room with silk > tapestries in this collour. > > Bjarne > > > > > Leif og Bjarne Drews > www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > > > ___ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > -- Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian [EMAIL PROTECTED]www.VintageVictorian.com Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] How much I love this list :Was: to dye for
I know this may sound kind of sappy, but I really love this list. The topics and tangents we talk about are just wonderful. I am an engineer and I work with some pretty boring people. You guys keep my creative juices alive. Thanks! Sg Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: Not a reply to the previous mail about books, but the head`er made me think about a story i heard about poison dyes. In about 1840ies i heard there was a new invention with a very bright green colour. They made wall hangings with this dyed silks and also it became a very Bjarne ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] New Topic: drawstring necklines on chemises
Hi All, On Tue, 14 Mar 2006 04:50, Kate M Bunting wrote: > We've debated this topic more than once and the general consensus seems to > be that chemises/shifts before the 18th century had stitched-down gathers, > not drawstrings. I'm well behind and paying only another flying visit, but for what _might_ be another take on gathered chemise necklines, have a look at Raphael's "La Donna Velata" (http://gallery.euroweb.hu/html/r/raphael/5roma/3/03velata.html - click image for larger version). Are the black bows with aglets functional or purely decorative? Ten years ago I made a version of this assuming the bow laces were functional and that they served to gather the camisa neckline. Using very fine fabric, separate gathering cords for the front, back and shoulders, and the tightest channel I could sew for the laces [*] I managed to make something that captured the "look". It's quite possibly a fake, but if so it's a good enough fake that it made me wonder whether this might have been the way the gathering was achieved, even if it was then secured to a woven band. Cheers, Jennifer [*] The channel was made by finishing the neck edge with a casing the height of the gathering cord + ruffle, threading the gathering cord, tamping the cord down against the seam and then sewing the second seam to separate the channel from the ruffle. I was doing a proof-of-concept garment, so I used a tubular cord (piping cord) to give something to push against and a zipper foot to push against it to get the gathering channel snug to the cord. The combination of the very fine fabric and the firm fit of the laces in their channels means you get a fairly stable, very finely-pleated effect with a small ruffle above the gathering. The four laces mean there are stop-points at the front and back of the armpits, controlling any tendency for the fullness to gravity-feed to the centre front and back. I think this technique is a definite improvement on using a single line of stitching to gather the neck seam, which tends to lead to a very floppy ruffle. I'm in two minds about whether it's an improvement on actually pleating to a band, although to my eye it gives the effect I see in the painting of being more pleat-like than usual gathering but less regimented than actual pleating. It's also _much_ simpler and quicker, and makes the garment adjustable to suit different necklines (or bodies). Discussion welcome. I realise the orthodoxy these days is that necklines of this time weren't gathered, but this variant makes me wonder. And I've now written a footnote longer than my main message. JLG -- Jennifer Geard ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] to dye for
Hi, Many thanks for your refferences. So it is true. I wasnt sure if it was just another myth or a true story. Bjarne - Original Message - From: "Cat Dancer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Historical Costume" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Saturday, March 18, 2006 10:39 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] to dye for On Sat, 18 Mar 2006, Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: Not a reply to the previous mail about books, but the head`er made me think about a story i heard about poison dyes. In about 1840ies i heard there was a new invention with a very bright green colour. They made wall hangings with this dyed silks and also it became a very popular colour for fashionable ball dresses. But they didnt realise that it was a very poisonable dye. The skin would consume the poison. Have anybody other heard this? It was a story i heard at Gammel Estrup where they have a room with silk tapestries in this collour. Bjarne In his book Jim Liles (The Art and Craft of Natural Dyeing) mentions Scheele's green--he references J.N.Napier (A Manual of Dyeing and Dyeing Receipts, 1875) as complaining that Scheele's green poisoned the maker of the dye, the winders of dyed yarn, and the person using the dyed article. He says it was discovered in 1770, and that Napoleon and a number of his servants in exile suffered from arsenic poisoning possibly from the wallpaper. He also mentiones lead chromate yellow, that it is poisonous, and dates it to 1840, but he doesn't say whether it's just the dyestuff itself that is poisonous or if the dyed articles are also poisonous. Pixel/Margaret ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] to dye for
On Sat, 18 Mar 2006, Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: Not a reply to the previous mail about books, but the head`er made me think about a story i heard about poison dyes. In about 1840ies i heard there was a new invention with a very bright green colour. They made wall hangings with this dyed silks and also it became a very popular colour for fashionable ball dresses. But they didnt realise that it was a very poisonable dye. The skin would consume the poison. Have anybody other heard this? It was a story i heard at Gammel Estrup where they have a room with silk tapestries in this collour. Bjarne In his book Jim Liles (The Art and Craft of Natural Dyeing) mentions Scheele's green--he references J.N.Napier (A Manual of Dyeing and Dyeing Receipts, 1875) as complaining that Scheele's green poisoned the maker of the dye, the winders of dyed yarn, and the person using the dyed article. He says it was discovered in 1770, and that Napoleon and a number of his servants in exile suffered from arsenic poisoning possibly from the wallpaper. He also mentiones lead chromate yellow, that it is poisonous, and dates it to 1840, but he doesn't say whether it's just the dyestuff itself that is poisonous or if the dyed articles are also poisonous. Pixel/Margaret ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Re: period dye color references
On Fri, 17 Mar 2006, Kahlara wrote: My modern references state thus: #1. Dandelion flowers with alum mordant produce a soft yellow, flowers with a tin mordant produce yellow, and the whole plant -roots, leaves and flowers - without mordant produces a magenta color. #2. Dandelion flowers with tin mordant produce a golden yellow and dandelion root with an alum mordant a gold-yellow similar to what we call 'goldenrod' paper. (this one has a color chart) I spent a few years as a R&D lab technician at a homeopathic manufacturing company. Dandelion is a great foodstuff/supplement. Good for the liver too. My dad used it in salads and for making wine. Annette M (looking forward to finally moving into our new house where there is a lot more space for sewing and room to start experimenting with natural dyes) I actually went back and poked about in the archives on the dye lists--Natural Dyes and SCA Natural Dyes on yahoogroups. What I have found (marked with *) : *Dandelion root added to an orchil dye bath will produce magenta, apparently. (Su Grierson says this in her book _Color Cauldron_) *Dandelions will make magenta *in England and Scotland* but not in the USA, because of the different mineral composition of the soil. I think that's also from the Sue Grierson source. *There is a particular variety of red or red-seeded dandelion that will produce magenta. *"Craft of the Dyer: Colour from Plants and Lichens Karen Casselman 1993 (2nd ed), Dover Publications Information on the kinds of colors you can expect from a wide variety of natural dyestuffs. And she states that she has been unable to get a reddish dye from dandelion roots (is this a myth or has anyone been able to do this?)." *"So the dandy was NOT fushcia but NOT a waste of time either (but what really is when you're experimenting?) On the Spin List, several people confirmed my hunch that the fuschia/pink/purple of dandelion is a myth. I'm pretty sure that N. american dandies are the same as European. I wonder if someone collected them from an unusual soil type somewhere and got pink dye- soil conditions can influence which pigments plants produce, as can amount of direct light vs shade, and even extreme temperatures, but I don't know if it could influence the pigments enough to influence their dyeing potential. ?" *"I've read in numerous books that dandelion roots yield a magenta dye. So far, no one I know has been able to do it. I was told that the magenta-yielding dandys grow in England, not in the US, but I haven't found any English dyers who have been able to get magenta, either." So the evidence for a red dye from dandelions appears to be site-specific and not necessarily substantiated. Something to keep in mind when you're reading a book on natural dyeing, even the modern ones--are the authors merely repeating someone else's dye recipe, or have they actually tried this particular recipe/technique and can reproduce it with a reasonable amount of success? Jenny Dean in Wild Color gives yellows and greens as the colors one can get from dandelions. She does not mention either the use of the roots as a dyestuff or any red color from the plant in any capacity. Jim Liles (The Art and Craft of NAtural Dyeing) doesn't mention dandelions at all. Pixel/Margaret ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Art Hysteria
My cookie, please! Of course I enjoyed Josephine Tey's Daughter of Time and was willing to be persuaded that Richard didn't kill the boys, but... This is the first I've heard that the Princes in the Tower didn't even die. This whole exercise, and it's high seriousness, reminds me of a "decoding" of Shakespeare's tomb inscription I once read. VERY tricky and elaborate! Interesting that when the "pun" works in English, it MUST be in English, but when it works in French, it MUST BE in Frenchoh, how do we know which to choose? Are there really that many "maternity gowns" in the picture? And why is one man's skin "waxy" by comparison instead of calling the other guy's skin "ruddy"?I'm particularly fond of the green design that resembles the veins of large animals Ah, well. Some people have a LOT OF TIME on their hands! Thanks for beguiling a bit of mine! --Ruth Anne Baumgartner scholar gypsy and amateur costumer On Mar 17, 2006, at 11:55 PM, E House wrote: Just for fun--here's an analysis of a copy of Holbein's sketch of Thomas More's Family: http://www.holbeinartworks.org/bfourstmandtpitt.htm Anyone who makes it all the way through gets a cookie! -E House ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] to dye for
Not a reply to the previous mail about books, but the head`er made me think about a story i heard about poison dyes. In about 1840ies i heard there was a new invention with a very bright green colour. They made wall hangings with this dyed silks and also it became a very popular colour for fashionable ball dresses. But they didnt realise that it was a very poisonable dye. The skin would consume the poison. Have anybody other heard this? It was a story i heard at Gammel Estrup where they have a room with silk tapestries in this collour. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Stomacher
Hi Tania, You are talking about Elizabethan times? Stomachers would be pinned to the bodice´s sides. Pins like dressing pins, and they would be stucked into the bodice, so that they nearly dissapears and gets invissible. As the body is made rather rigid by the pair of bodies (corsets) it wont sloutche, and therefore there is not any risks by using pins. Off cause you have to be aware that no pointed ends sticks out somewhere... Bjarne - Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Saturday, March 18, 2006 9:02 PM Subject: [h-cost] Stomacher I was recently made aware of the stomacher from some previous posts. I make Elizabethan costumes and though it isn't strictly period I am interested in learning more about them. I don't have the luxury of a ladies maid and this invention would definitely make getting dressed by oneself easier. Can anyone explain the workings of these, or possibly have a good picture of how they're attached and how they cover the laces? Thank-you Tania ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] To Dye for-(was Period Dye color references
Michael Shamansky Books http://www.artbooks.com/wc.dll?AB~searchquick~&cart=0 - another Evil Place where you can spend the rent, mortgage, and food money for years to come. I was good and my potential order only came to $800. I quietly exited before they could see the credit cards in my wallet and _force_ me to use them. Although that is where I finally got Moda di Firenze. They have both English Language and non-English Language books. Some books like Moda that are in both languages. I hit the button for English language and got 1751. Some were even in a reasonable price range. I tried checking to see if they were cheaper on Amazon.co.uk (Amazon.com doesn't seem to have things like this and shipping from England really isn't that bad thanks to the fact that Ben Franklyn didn't believe that books should have to pay duty - unlike Europe!). They weren't. If the books were printed around 2000 I could sometimes find them on bookfinder.com Item Number: 44160 Title: The Colourful Past: Origins, Chemistry and Identification of Natural Dyestuffs Author: HOFENK DE GRAAF, JUDITH H Price: $125.00 ISBN: 1873132131 Description: London: Archetype (Riggisberg: Abegg-Stiftung), 2004. 25cm., cloth, 396pp. illus., most in color. Wanda > ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Stomacher
I was recently made aware of the stomacher from some previous posts. I make Elizabethan costumes and though it isn't strictly period I am interested in learning more about them. I don't have the luxury of a ladies maid and this invention would definitely make getting dressed by oneself easier. Can anyone explain the workings of these, or possibly have a good picture of how they're attached and how they cover the laces? Thank-you Tania ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] semi-OT: waiting for books
I have been working my way through the Egan Finds book for nearly two weeks now. I ordered it through David Brown Book Company along with Live and Death aboard the Mary Rose. A mere $100 combined, but for the bookoholic and Tudor addict, they are both "necessary" (yes, I know I'm late on my taxes, but there were these books... You understand, don't you?) Regina > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Behalf Of Suzi Clarke > Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2006 3:24 PM > To: Historical Costume > Subject: Re: [h-cost] semi-OT: waiting for books > > > At 20:49 16/03/2006, you wrote: > > >I ordered the Tudor Tailor. Still waiting on it. They said "March > >2006" and it is still March... > > > >E House wrote: > > > >>Has anyone order and actually received either of these two books? > >> > >> > >> > >>"The Tudor Tailor" by Ninya Mikhaila et al (pre-ordered from website) > >>ISBN: ? > > > Ninya Mikhaila has only just received her own copy of the book. They > will be shipped as soon as the rest arrive. > > Suzi > > > ___ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Hand fan silk handpainted
I'ts really hard to tell how bad the damage is by the pictures. If it's not too bad than it can be reinforced. If the damage is too bad, than yes, the sticks can be recovered as long as they're not cracked. If they are, you're better of leaving it as a display. Tania -Original Message- From: Deredere Galbraith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Historical Costume <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 17:07:07 +0100 Subject: [h-cost] Hand fan silk handpainted Hi, Today I've bought a nice folding fan on an antiek market. I just fell in love with it and had to buy it. But the silk is damaged. Is this reperable? I am thinking of taking the fabric of and put new silk on it. I have just the right silk for it. I am a very practical person and I like to use things instead of letting them gather dust. But in this state it is not usable. I am wondering how others think of what I schould do. And does anyone knows from which period this fan is? Pictures from the fan are on the bottom of the page. http://mystictimes.nl/Gallery/Gallery.html ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 17th c doublet cuff closure
(snip) I'm trying to figure out how the wrist closure is constructed. I doubt it is constructed like a modern suit jacket where the vent is lapped then sewn in place with false buttonholes. Does it have lots of buttons or just one? Is it laced? hooked? or completely closed & the hand just slips in? I guess i need a picture of a guy getting dressed, just before he turns the lace cuffs back. Or perhaps a pic of a guy in a doublet "shooting his cuffs" the way modern men in suits do. The cut of mens clothes has a doublet from the time! True. And she, Norah Waugh, never shows the cuff closure. I'll go look thru Janet Arnold again. Thanks, Bjarne, you're a pal! --cin Cynthia Barnes [EMAIL PROTECTED] The V&A website has pictures of a white silk suit from about 1635 which shows the button closures on the sleeves. They've also got an embroidered linen doublet on display that clearly shows the buttons on the sleeves. I believe there are closeups of both of these in Historic Costume in Detail, but I don't have the book in front of me. I've also got scans of paintings from the period clearly showing the sleeve details--Hal's The Laughing Cavalier comes to mind right off-hand. They button/unbutton almost to the elbow on the outside of the arm. Melusine ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Early 19th century French term
I think it's something that pinks on two sides of a band of material, but I imagine a punch could be made that way. I was hoping someone on the list had seen one. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com Diana Habra wrote: Has anyone run across a reference to some sort of early 19th-century tool for pinking fabric called an arrache-pièce à dents? (I'm not sure the accents will come through in the email you receive, but I tried. The only modern reference I've found to this terms to a tool called a "gear puller" in English, and this is certainly not that.) If so can you point me to any more info? As near as I can translate it (from my 4+ years of high school french) the literal translation is a "piece puller with teeth". So your modern reference is very close to the french term. Could it be like the antique pinking tools you can see on EBay where you turn a crank and run the fabric through to pink the edge? Hope that helps... diana www.RenaissanceFabrics.net "Everything for the Costumer" "Become the change you want to see in the world." --Ghandi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Art Hysteria
Hi, All. For all of the author's linguistic knowledge, they seem not to know much about the material culture of the period. At that time, clocks did not yet use a pendulum, and the ettiquite of the wearing of the collar of S's had not yet really been established. Look at the portrait of Henry VI in the National Portrait Gallery. His S's on what probably was a leather or woven collar went both ways (I wonder what the author might conjecture that to mean?) More's collar was the proper Tudor one with the portcullisses (Beaufort of Lancaster, true). In the web pic as well as in another more painting, the s's are "backward" But the Holbein pic shown in Davenport shows them right way around, as it were. Proving what? Nothing that I can tell. Mike T. PS a lot of fun reading, though... Just for fun--here's an analysis of a copy of Holbein's sketch of Thomas More's Family: http://www.holbeinartworks.org/bfourstmandtpitt.htm Anyone who makes it all the way through gets a cookie! -E House ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Early 19th century French term
> Has anyone run across a reference to some sort of early 19th-century > tool for pinking fabric called an arrache-pièce à dents? (I'm not sure > the accents will come through in the email you receive, but I tried. > The only modern reference I've found to this terms to a tool called a > "gear puller" in English, and this is certainly not that.) If so can > you point me to any more info? As near as I can translate it (from my 4+ years of high school french) the literal translation is a "piece puller with teeth". So your modern reference is very close to the french term. Could it be like the antique pinking tools you can see on EBay where you turn a crank and run the fabric through to pink the edge? Hope that helps... diana www.RenaissanceFabrics.net "Everything for the Costumer" "Become the change you want to see in the world." --Ghandi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Hand fan silk handpainted
Hi Deredere, Oh congratulations with your find. It is very very nice. I think the fabric as you call it, actually is an old either Blonde lace or Chantilly. The thick silk gimp thread wich makes the pattern, and also the picots in the edges. The painted flower suggests me to think that it could be a Victoraian fan. Bjarne - Original Message - From: "Deredere Galbraith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Historical Costume" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Saturday, March 18, 2006 5:07 PM Subject: [h-cost] Hand fan silk handpainted Hi, Today I've bought a nice folding fan on an antiek market. I just fell in love with it and had to buy it. But the silk is damaged. Is this reperable? I am thinking of taking the fabric of and put new silk on it. I have just the right silk for it. I am a very practical person and I like to use things instead of letting them gather dust. But in this state it is not usable. I am wondering how others think of what I schould do. And does anyone knows from which period this fan is? Pictures from the fan are on the bottom of the page. http://mystictimes.nl/Gallery/Gallery.html ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Hand fan silk handpainted
Hi, Today I've bought a nice folding fan on an antiek market. I just fell in love with it and had to buy it. But the silk is damaged. Is this reperable? I am thinking of taking the fabric of and put new silk on it. I have just the right silk for it. I am a very practical person and I like to use things instead of letting them gather dust. But in this state it is not usable. I am wondering how others think of what I schould do. And does anyone knows from which period this fan is? Pictures from the fan are on the bottom of the page. http://mystictimes.nl/Gallery/Gallery.html ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Art Hysteria
There's one thing that does intrigue me--the idea that this might actually be the original Holbein painting, which is a theory (according to the website, haha) that may have gained some believability among others. -E House ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Re:Glove pic
Google for leather You will come up with a few sites that carry thin leather for sale. Susan "Slow down. The trail is the thing, not the end of the trail. Travel too fast and you miss all you are traveling for". - "Ride the Dark Trail" by Louis L'Amour On Mar 18, 2006, at 2:53 AM, Joannah Hansen wrote: --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That is exactly what I plan on using. I purchased some white vintage kid gloves and will tack on the wrist decoration with russet and olive ribbons. I currently have it in a garment weight leather, butit's coming off rather heavy looking and totally overpowering the delicacy of the kid and the silk ribbons. I have also lined the leather with an orange/red shot silk to make the slashes pop. It looks good, but again, I need to lighten the leather up. I have some paper thin sueded leather in white that might work. I'm just reluctant to cut into it as it had other plans to be corset binding. I'll see what I can come up with. I wonder if I could just do it with some white taffeta and the silk ribbons instead? That would match the sheen of the kid and the delicacy of the decoration. hMust go rummaging for scraps! Kathy Have you tried to find garment/clothing leather? The sort of leather that they make womens leather skirts out of? That leather is usually very thin - not as thin as kid, but certainly finer than most leather from leather shops. It may be worth your while to have a search through your local second-hand clothes store, I know that I have seen cast-off leather clothes ( usually in *tiny* sizes, which I would imagine is why they are *still* in the shop! ) in the second-hand shops here. Or is there a leather clothing manufacturer near you who you could speak to, about maybe buying some offcuts? The orange/red silk lining to show show through the slashes sounds gorgeous! You are going to show us pictures of the end result, right? :-> Joannah ~*~ Practice random acts of kindness, and senseless acts of beauty. ~*~ _ Sluggy.Net: The Sluggy Freelance Community! ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Re: period dye color references now dandelions
Hi, This made me reminding an article in my textile history club, where one told about dying from and old recipy to blue i think, where they needed urin from a drunk man. Obviously this should make it special blue. What does one not do to get the real thing? Bjarne - Original Message - From: "cahuff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Saturday, March 18, 2006 4:01 PM Subject: [h-cost] Re: period dye color references now dandelions Hi The best explanation I've heard for magenta from the roots was that the roots were used as an assist in getting the color (I think it was from Sue Grierson's book-- I have it somewhere and this cold is making me fuzzy!). Since it seems that many of the dye books use each other as references--esp those from the 70's and 80's-- the myth of magentas/purples from dandelions just keeps on popping up! Much like the plant I've tried many dyebaths some even using the plants with the purple on the leaves and have gotten glorious color--just not purples, not from the flower/leaves/roots or any combination of the same. The only thing I haven't tried is a complex extraction with alcohol or ammonia before dying. If the snows stop, then the cheery flowers will appear and I can try those dyebaths... You can get purples in several, 'period' ways. Just not from the little dandelion. If I'm wrong and you have produced a purple from dandelion---please sent me a picture!!! And the recipe--and forward to the list, I know we'd all like to see it! Ta Carol--eagerly awaiting the return of Spring! -- Creative Clutter is Better Than Idle Neatness! ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Art Hysteria
That article shows how art can tell a tale. It also shows how much can be read into a painting. Through research and testing, inferrences can be drawn from points in the pictures. painters often hid things in their work that only an educated eye could find. Without the documentation of this, it would go unknown and lost to history. Makes me wonder how much is true and how much is made up to fit a given situation. - Original Message - From: "E House" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Historical Costume" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 11:55 PM Subject: [h-cost] Art Hysteria Just for fun--here's an analysis of a copy of Holbein's sketch of Thomas More's Family: http://www.holbeinartworks.org/bfourstmandtpitt.htm Anyone who makes it all the way through gets a cookie! -E House ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: period dye color references now dandelions
Hi The best explanation I've heard for magenta from the roots was that the roots were used as an assist in getting the color (I think it was from Sue Grierson's book-- I have it somewhere and this cold is making me fuzzy!). Since it seems that many of the dye books use each other as references--esp those from the 70's and 80's-- the myth of magentas/purples from dandelions just keeps on popping up! Much like the plant I've tried many dyebaths some even using the plants with the purple on the leaves and have gotten glorious color--just not purples, not from the flower/leaves/roots or any combination of the same. The only thing I haven't tried is a complex extraction with alcohol or ammonia before dying. If the snows stop, then the cheery flowers will appear and I can try those dyebaths... You can get purples in several, 'period' ways. Just not from the little dandelion. If I'm wrong and you have produced a purple from dandelion---please sent me a picture!!! And the recipe--and forward to the list, I know we'd all like to see it! Ta Carol--eagerly awaiting the return of Spring! -- Creative Clutter is Better Than Idle Neatness! ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Art Hysteria
Oh. My. Gawd. It's an English version of that idiotic novel, _The DaVinci Codes_.same sort of bad history and art criticism. --Sue, still sputtering through her breakfast oatmeal ;o) - Original Message - From: "E House" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Historical Costume" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 9:55 PM Subject: [h-cost] Art Hysteria > Just for fun--here's an analysis of a copy of Holbein's sketch of Thomas > More's Family: > http://www.holbeinartworks.org/bfourstmandtpitt.htm > Anyone who makes it all the way through gets a cookie! > > -E House > > ___ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] great coat
Hi, I asked on 18th century list. They answered that it very well could have ben a redingote wich was very fashionable at this time. Redingote was an open robe with collar and long sleaves. And it could be the equivalent to a mans great coat. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
