Re: [h-cost] have you read this costume book?

[cheryldee]

I consider this book a must have to any costume designer's library (for that is 
what I do).  Eye candy.  The close up details are extremely useful and the 
later costumes are largely ones influenced by Asian design.  Ie.  the Poiret 
fascination with kimonos and parasols, Fortuny, etc.  The collection is also in 
incredibly good shape, giving the impression that the original colors have not 
faded or changed.  I have considered a trip to Japan to study this connection 
up close and personal.  I wonder, have any of you had that experience?  Is part 
of it available to the public?  How do they work with students wishing to study 
the collection? 
 
Cheryl Odom
College of Santa Fe
 
 
-Original Message-
From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Historical Costume <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 12:02:25 -0700
Subject: RE: [h-cost] have you read this costume book?


>This is a two-volume reprint of the original "Fashion" which was about 
>720 pages. I have it. 20th century fashions, if I recall correctly, make 
>up over 1/3 of the book as there are more 20th century fashions in 
>existence than 18th and 19th. 
 
And there ought to be one from the 16thC too. In the one-volume version it's a 
close-up only, of what used to be called the Devereaux Bodice. Lots of amazing 
handwork in that close-up. 
 
  CarolynKayta Barrows 
dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian 
  www.FunStuft.com 
 
   \\\ 
  -@@\\\ 
   7 ))) 
  ((( <>  
  ) (( 
  /\ /---\)) 
 
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Re: [h-cost] Bridal lace on the cheap?

[Cheryldee]

 
In a message dated 9/19/2005 11:43:48 P.M. Mountain Standard Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

local  young lady has asked me to help her make 7 bridesmaids dresses, no 
problem.  But she want dusty rose lace overlays on the dresses. 
> Where can I  find such a creature that doesnt cost an arm and a leg?  She 
would prefer  more of an open lace like an embroidered tulle  or something that 
doesnt  'have all of the flowers crammed together'.   I think she is looking  
in the range of $10. yard or less.
> 



Los Angeles, El Paso or NYC garment districts although many of them don't  
have web pages, most are happy send a sample.  If you are near one of these  
areas or know someone who it, all the better.  Cheryl  Odom
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Re: [h-cost] the 20th century-influences

[Cheryldee]

 
In a message dated 9/23/2005 11:16:23 A.M. Mountain Standard Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

I've  never been quite sure who Olivia Newton John is, but I don't think 
I  really want to know.  I think she has something to do with music?   but 
I don't listen to modern pop or rock or rap music, whatever the thing  is 
now.



My opinion is that if you don't understand MTV, VHS, Hip-Hop and the whole  
youth music culture your are probably incomplete in your assessment of what is  
going on with "fashion" in our culture.  We no longer have one fashion  which 
everyone tries to copy within their economic class.  We have a  fascination 
with youth sub-culture and you won't get that without music videos,  etc. on 
these channels.  There is a world culture now, like never  before.  We are 
truly 
becoming a world village with exchange of styles  reinterpreted.  Look at the 
Tokyo street culture for a creative take on  Western fashion.  The couture 
houses no longer dictate fashion.  It  comes from everywhere.  Has anyone else 
noticed the recent fascination with  death?  What's up with that?
 
Fashion, however you define it, has always been a reflection of the  cultural 
and sub-cultural hegemony in Western Civilization.  It's often  referred to 
as "Zeitgeist".  Meaning it can only flower in the historic and  
socio-political environment of its time.  So if something is, indeed,  
revisited (and it's 
never exactly the same), how is that reflected in what is  going on in the 
culture?
 
Sorry to be so effusive, but I am currently teaching a class I have labeled  
"Clothing as Metaphor" which deals with this specific issue.  I just spent  
three hours in that class discussing war and emancipation and its relation to  
fashion in the 20th century, so am interested in the thread.
 
By the way, if anyone is interested, we are using Fashion as  Communication 
by Malcolm Barnard as a text.  I am looking forward to  the additional 
discussion.
 
Cheryl Odom
College of Santa Fe
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[h-cost] Current day fashion magazines

[Cheryldee]

 
In a message dated 9/24/2005 8:27:46 A.M. Mountain Standard Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

What  current day fashion magazines do you all read?



A trip to Border's is really educational.  Because of the class I am  
teaching, I am interested in what appeals, what is being worn by various  
groups.  
Consider that the music magazines serve as fashion magazines, as  well.  There 
are magazines for Goths, Latinos (various subcultures), Blacks  (various age 
groups and subcultures), Teens, Wealthy Mainstream, Artsy Cutting  Edge.  Of 
course, there is crossover between these groups.  It's  interesting to see how 
different the looks are depending on the group one wishes  to identify 
with...and how one season something might appear only in the Goth  magazines 
and the 
next it resurfaces, remade in Vogue.  Re-enactors must be  rejoicing right now, 
as there is a mainstream interest in tapestry, velvet,  lace, corsets, (which 
have been appearing for three years or so).   Maybe you can't wear the whole 
thing, but you can certainly get away with the  laced bodices, jackets, ren 
shirts, etc...and look very stylish. It recalls the  Edwardian styles of the 
late 
'60's and early '70's, but more eclectic.
 
And I, too love the new mainstream look. The little tummy-bearing  tight 
clothes of the past several years would have looked hideous on moi, 55  years 
old 
who lost her waistline years ago and who loved the late 80's and early  90's 
because I could cover it up and still look  fashionable.
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Re: [h-cost] the 20th century

[Cheryldee]

 
In a message dated 9/24/2005 8:29:14 A.M. Mountain Standard Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Pants  for women. I think this is the one major change. In every other 
period,  men wear pants and women skirts. Of course, that really happened in 
the  second part of the century... 



Actually men didn't wear "pants" until their skirts got so short they  needed 
to connect their hose to avoid a public display.  At least that is  my 
understanding.  Cheryl Odom
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Re: [h-cost] Question about historical costuming terms

[Cheryldee]

In a message dated 9/26/2005 9:24:24 P.M. Mountain Standard Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Directoire,: After the French Revolution, specifically during the  
"Republic", think Marat, Robespierre. 1790's-1800ish.  French only.   Enormous 
collars 
and cravats to the chin on the men.  Wild hair styles  and pouting bosoms on 
the women.  Tricolor cockades everywhere.   Lots of stripes.
Empire: Refers to Napoleon's reign.  1800ish to 1815 or so. Not sure  when he 
was deposed  but the look begins to change about 1815.   Specifically French. 
An attempt to recall the Greek and Roman look,   Although "Empire" may refer 
to European continental styles in general.
 
 Regency: Refers to the King Regent later George IV.  He was  named Regent 
due to his father's bouts with insanity.  Specifically  English.  Think 
Brighton 
Palace.  "Madness of George III" the movie  and slightly after.  Also Jane 
Austen.  Like the French but much more  "sweet".  Small floral prints, pastels, 
etc.
 
 Romantic:  Lucy Barton term referring to the period 1820-ish  to 1840 or so. 
 It's that period when the waists dropped and the sleeves  grew enormous and 
the women looked like they were wearing Ike Bana on their  heads.  Think 
Dickens, Bronte sisters.  I should think the "Oliver  Twist" opening on Friday 
will 
be a good example of this period.



Cheryl Odom
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Re: [h-cost] Review? Women's Costume 1877-1885: The Complete Dress and Cloak ...

[Cheryldee]

 
In a message dated 10/7/2005 10:23:11 A.M. Mountain Standard Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Yes, it  is the original scale patterns and illustrations from tailoring
and fitting  instructions originally printed. Unless the late Jean
Hunnisett has a  successor to carry on  her Period Costume for Stage and
Screen series  of books, I doubt we will see any more books on historic
patterns scaled to  fit the modern wearer.



And because the information on the "Princess" line of this period is so  
difficult to come by, it is a good source of information.  I would be  lost 
without it during my current design and build of "Doll's House".  It  also 
contains 
a detailed account of "etiquette" regarding the proper  time and place for 
different fashions of the time IE. Traveling, visiting,  promenading, opera, 
mourning (all three degrees), etc.  Cheryl  Odom
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Re: [h-cost] soles for slippers? - OT

[Cheryldee]

 
In a message dated 10/13/2005 6:46:55 A.M. Mountain Standard Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

indoor  slippers. I had an idea about making some
pointy velvet slip ons for  Christmas gifts and thought
a thin covered sole would be sufficient. I've  not been
able to find something online though - has anyone
tried to make  them before?




I would consider leather.  Suede has more grip.  You can make the  entire 
slipper including the foot and then use leather glue, Gorilla, Barge  
(different 
kinds of strong glue, don't know the brands in the U.K.).  It's  nice to work 
from a foot tracing but if it is meant to be a surprise, maybe  not.  It's 
nice to have a foot tracing as most people have different shaped  feet and you 
can actually tailor each slipper to the intended foot.  One of  my students had 
a great shoe making book a couple of years back but I don't  remember the 
name.  Lots of cute velvet types.  And I don't consider  it off-topic as many 
re-enactors would like suggestions for period foot  ware.
 
Cheryl Odom
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Re: [h-cost] hoops for crinoline dresses

[Cheryldee]

 
In a message dated 11/3/2005 6:34:18 P.M. Mountain Standard Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

can  anyone give us advice on where we can get hooping material for  crinoline
dresses. Are they made of plastic or is it cloth covered wire and  could
anyone tell us where to get the appropriate materials  please?




try Amazon Drygoods or Farthingales, both have web pages that you can  
"google".
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[h-cost] Plays and operas in different periods

[Cheryldee]

For me, a professional costume designer as well as a costume designer in  
education, it is always more fun to place a well-known play in a different  
period that the period in which it was written.  But I speak  selfishly.  It 
needs 
to be made clear, here that it works best with  well-known classics such as 
Shakespeare, Moliere, or the Greek and  Roman plays.  If the theme relates well 
to a different time in history,  then it seems to work very well.  Even the 
Shakespearean plays weren't  placed "in period" at their time but in a curious 
mismash of the Elizabethan  interpretation of, say, Roman with Renaissance 
interpretation including doublets  and hose.  And I think a play or opera from 
the 
Baroque period would be  great fun if it was designed in the style of the 
opera costumes of Baroque  period, although, as it was pointed out previously, 
those weren't "period",  either, but appear rather strange to the contemporary 
eye.  I have a  British director that I design for who always insists on "the 
period, Darling,  of course", without considering the possibilities.  So we've 
had a  "Macbeth" in 12th century or so Scotland (fun, anyway because the 
research was  so much fun plus, given that we built 90% of the show a pretty 
easy 
time due to  the T-shape construction methods of the time).  She wanted 
"Hamlet" in "the  period, Darling", but the budget and time constraints 
wouldn't have 
allowed for  it, so she was talked into an Erte look with Early Jacobean 
touches.  That  said, some of the most fun I have had as a designer have been 
the 
following  plays placed out of period:
 
"Romeo and Juliet"-French Directoire
"Measure for Measure"-Antebellum New Orleans
"As You Like It"-1960's Hippies vs. Jet Setters
"Taming of the Shrew"-California Gold Rush
"Pericles"-Vague Gypsy
"Midsummer Night's Dream"-An all white court in Renaissance Doublets for  the 
men, pseudo-Greek draperies for the ladies and a host of Punk-inspired  
fairies (sounds dreadful, but worked very well)
 
I also recall a "Tempest" at Yale back in the '70's which took place on  
Mars, a "Measure for Measure" at the Royal Shakespeare in Stratford set in the  
18th Century (wonderful production), and a very bad "Twelfth Night" at the 
Young 
 Vic set in the 1930's (it wasn't the costumes which made it bad, it was the  
stage direction)
 
And I'm sure there are many more that skip my mind as I rattle off this  
email.  Sometimes it's done because time and budget constraints don't allow  
for 
the actual period, sometimes because the director wants to "visit" the play  in 
a new play.  After it's all over and done, the question to ask is did  the 
chosen play/opera/ballet support the playwright's, etc. original  vision?  If 
it 
didn't, then I would say the choice is not particularly  successful.
 
Long post, between bread (rising), pies (in the oven) and stuffing (next on  
my list)
 
Happy Thanksgiving to all of the Americans on this list, and Peace on Earth  
to all of us.
 
Cheryl Odom
College of Santa Fe
 
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Re: [h-cost] Re: opera

[Cheryldee]

 
In a message dated 11/28/2005 11:55:45 A.M. Mountain Standard Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

As a  singer putting on a proper
corset to sing means you can't get the air in  nearly so well as
without.  The notes are then naturally shortened,  compressed and
quiter.  Now perhaps the very 'big' singing of modern  days would not
sound so full or loud sung by women in  corsettry.

Alternatively - did opera singers wear corsets - I can't  even begin to
think how to sing something like the Queen of the night aria  in a
corset.



I actually have some experience with this, having spent several summers at  
the Santa Fe Opera.  Yes, the singers wear corsets, although in periods up  
until the 19th century, the corset boning is generally included in the bodices  
and not separate.  Just makes the costumes more "actor proof".  This  means 
that a coutil, steel-boned bodice is constructed, fitted, the pieces  
dismantles 
and covered with bias cotton flannel (so the boning won't show  through) then 
covered with the bodice fabric.  Believe me, you can't  tell.  Initially, the 
singers worry, if they haven't worn a corset before,  but soon consider it 
their best friend, as they can push against the bones with  their diaphram as 
they sing and it actually supports them.
 
Cheryl
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Re: [h-cost] Tailoring a man's shirt

[Cheryldee]

 
In a message dated 12/2/2005 7:24:44 A.M. Mountain Standard Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Look at  the construction. I'll bet the sleeve seam and the side seams were   
sewn last and at once. [Flat fell seams?] 4" is just 2" a side seam, which  
is 
1"  on the front piece and 1" on the back piece. IOW, if you fold  the shirt 
on  
the side seam and come in 1"...and do that on both  sides, you've got your 
chest  prob solved...but you'll need to taper  that pinch out to nothing in 
the 
sleeve  seam. If there's oodles of  room in the upper sleeve, you're OK.




He's right, you know.  Having tailored many a dress shirt for a  boyfriend in 
the day, The last seam on the body of the shirt is always the  underarm.  If 
it really is a finely tailored shirt, it may be difficult to  pick out all of 
the flat-felling, although most of it can just be cut away and  replaced by a 
new flat-felled seam, save that which is near the cuff.   Generally, in 
well-tailored shirts, the stitch size is miniscule in the  flat-felled seams, 
which 
makes for a long life for the shirt.  Also, the  flat-felling in the armhole 
is a pain to do, although, again, you will only be  doing the underarm.  This 
seam is normally sewn and felled before the  underarm, making in easier to 
accomplish and since you are taking in the  underarm seam and the sleeve has 
already been set in the body, it will be  trickier, although not impossible, 
especially if your machine has a free  arm.  Cheryl
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Re: [h-cost] 16th c. costume experts?

[Cheryldee]

 
In a message dated 1/29/2006 11:38:48 A.M. Mountain Standard Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


>  By 16thC, do you mean British Elizabethan, or 16thC everywhere and in
>  general?



There is a wonderful book by the Cunningtons which I believe is out of  
print.  Published, I think in the 50's.
 
Cheryl Odom
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[h-cost] Dune costumes

[Cheryldee]

While I really enjoyed both sets of movies (SciFi version, and the
>  original
> movie with extended info), the books are so much better  imho
 
One should never go to a movie based on a book and expect it to be in any  
way true to the book's story.  Different medium.  Then one is less  often 
disappointed.  I loved the Dune books.  I also loved the David  Lynch "Dune" 
movie.  
If any of you are fans of particular film directors,  as I am of David Lynch, 
you go to that movie to see what that director has done  with the story, not 
to see a reenactment scene-by-scene of the book.  At  least, that is my 
opinion.  If you're looking for the same story as the  book, you are bound to 
be 
disappointed most of the time.  Where was Tom  Bombadil, after all, in Lord of 
the Rings?
 
That said, the process of designing costumes for a science fiction film or  
fantasy is that the world you are creating never really existed.  So you  get 
to create the world, along with the rest of the design team. So much  fun!  And 
the choices in "Dune" the movie (the 80's one with Sting) are  very 
interesting.  I particularly liked the moisture-trapping suits.   The name for 
them 
escapes me.  And, of course, the Court.  And the  creepy Baron. (shudder) and 
how 
all of these choices related to the  characters.
 
Cheryl Odom
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[h-cost] Tux, tails and vests

[Cheryldee]

My students are designing a production of "Dracula" (1897) and are required  
to do research and designs for the costumes.  There has been a lot of  
discussion of vest colors and appropriate coats for various occasions.  I  
learned 
(Esquire Book of Men's Clothing, mostly) that the rule of thumb is white  tie 
and vest with tails, black tie and vest with tux.  A man in black tie  and 
tails 
would be a servant ie butler or waiter.  So my students have  found a lot of 
research contrary to what my assumption was.  I have seen  pictures of white 
vest and black tie with tails, white vest and white tie with  tuxedos, black 
vest and tie with tails on gentlemen who would never be mistaken  for servants 
and all other permutations.  The research they have found is  secondary, 
meaning drawings from the period rather than actual  photographs.  Have I been 
wrong 
all these years?  Also, it was my  understanding that tuxedos were not 
considered proper in the presence of  ladies.  Tails were required for those 
occasions, although I do understand  that this convention gradually faded away. 
 Can 
someone elucidate me?
 
Cheryl Odom
College of Santa Fe



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Re: [h-cost] Tux, tails and vests

[Cheryldee]

 
In a message dated 10/17/2007 8:42:17 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


Ann's  right; tuxedos were originally a kind of informal wear;  they did not  
become formal wear until the 1920s.Unfortunately, I don't  remember 
enough 
to be more detailed  than  that.






Actually, tuxedos started as a form of "infomal" formal wear, worn at  
gentlemen's clubs before 1900.  At least that is my understanding.
 
Cheryl Odom, poster of the original question



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[h-cost] Costume shop

[cheryldee]

<>

With no windows and no place to store anything.? Oh, and no ventillation.
?
Ann Wass



Cheryl Odom
College of Santa Fe


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[h-cost] Professional pleaters

[cheryldee]

< > It may be worth looking for somewhere that does permanent pleating 
> professionally. I use a firm to pleat my fabrics if I want the pleats > to be 
permanent - they do it by machine and weight I believe. My firm > will pleat 
anything, including silk organza, silk and cotton. They > all keep their 
pleats.> > If I am hand pleating, I press in the pleats, down the entire 
length, 
> baste each one, and steam iron again. (A long and boring, but > satisfying 
process


I have always used A-1 Pleating in Los Angeles.? It's not true that they only 
deal with
polyester. I have had a lot of natural fabrics pleated.? They can do a variety 
of different pleats and 
they stay in the fabric because they "cook" them in pleating ovens.? Even if 
the pleats fall out a little
bit over the years, the creases remain and it's pretty easy to touch them up.? 
I especially like having 
sunburst pleats done because it's impossible to do them yourself.? And it's 
true that it can be pricey
but if you're needing to save time and want accuracy and permanency, it's worth 
the expense.


Cheryl Odom
College of Santa Fe
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[h-cost] Designer standards

[cheryldee]

I assume that the material posted so far regarding professional behavior and 
expectations of costume designers has related mostly to community theatre.? May 
I comment as a professional costume designer.? I learned very early in my 
career not to work without a signed contract.? Every contract I sign spells out 
very clearly what I am responsible for and gives due dates for rough sketches, 
final sketches and dates?that I am required to be in residence with the theatre 
company which has employed me.? My contract expires on opening night.? Most 
contracts also indicate that I will partipate in all design conferences with 
the director and other designers involved in the production as well as 
regularly scheduled production and budget meetings.? In addition, the contract 
gives dates in which I will receive a portion of my design fee.? The contract I 
am looking at right now stipulates that I will be paid for my work in three 
installments, the last to occur on opening night.? It also s!
 tates that I will be given a housing allowance and be reimbured for traveling 
expenses to and from the theatre company. Having a signed contract protects 
both the designer and the company.? I learned my lesson when I was first 
beginning my career wherein, after working for three weeks on designs for a 
show and being promised a contract any day, the producer quit and the new 
producer had a girlfriend who was a costume designer.? Guess what happened?


Cheryl Odom
College of Santa Fe
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[h-cost] Director-designer professional standards

[cheryldee]

I had a difficult situation with a play I designed last summer.? The 
director didn't have much of a clue what he wanted before the rehearsal 
process started but he did have one conceptual concept he wanted 
visualized by the costumes and I agreed it would be a good one, so I 
designed the show around that.? The play only had 2 actors, one male, 
one female (The Last Five Years) and when rehearsals started, they, 
especially the woman, started suggesting costume ideas.? At that point, 
the director more or less submitted to their-mainly her--ideas and my 
ideas kind of flew out the window.? It was a shopped show and one 
weekend the woman even went to a store and bought some things she 
liked, to bring back and show me.? I was getting rather frustrated and 
disappointed by then but tried to go with the flow and I actually did 
appreciate their input, since they knew more about their characters 
than I did through rehearsing their parts.??? I guess I've been in the 
business enough by now to know do this, although it would have been 
impossible if the costumes had been built.


This is why I continue to maintain that contemporary show are the most 
difficult to design.? Many cast members think they have a better idea than the 
designer.? And?many directors, wanting to please the actors in order to get the 
best possible performance out of them, will let the actors dictate to the 
designer what they want.? Which is why research and renderings are extremely 
valuable from the beginning of the process.? So it doesn't turn into "He said, 
she said" and one can produce the original ideas which were agreed on.? I hope 
we're not boring the non-costume designers on this list.


Cheryl Odom
College of Santa Fe
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[h-cost] Blood in costumes

[cheryldee]

Sharon Collier wrote:
> Just get rid of the director. It's easier. :-) 
>
>? 
Only if you have friends to help you hide the body. :)


Dawn

And a product to help you get the blood out of your clothes.


Cheryl Odom
College of Santa Fe

BTW, If you can't convince your director you mean business, you might want to 
try Reel Blood which is easier to remove than any other blood product I've 
tried.
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[h-cost] Blood/costumes

[cheryldee]

> Only if you have friends to help you hide the body. :)
> And a product to help you get the blood out of your clothes.
> BTW, If you can't convince your director you mean business, you might want to
> try Reel Blood which is easier to remove than any other blood product I've
> tried.

Pig's blood holds it's colour longer than human blood (why horror movie sets 
smell so bad) which reminds me, pigs will eat all the body parts,


I want to make it clear here that "Reel Blood" is a product.? I was not 
misspelling
"real blood".? It's used a lot in the film industry because it is a good color 
for HD.
It also works fine onstage and comes out of costumes better than any other 
product I've tried.


Cheryl Odom
College of Santa Fe
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Re: [h-cost] Trim question

[cheryldee]

Suzi: You can still find bullion braid and fringe from certain suppliers.? It's 
used a lot in theatrical costumes and would look spectacular on your dress.? 
Costume houses or theatre groups in the UK?could probably help you find a 
source there.? Sometimes military supply?companies also carry it.


Cheryl Odom

-Original Message-
From: Suzi Clarke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Historical Costume <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 12:20 pm
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Trim question



At 11:55 20/11/2008, you wrote:?
>I am looking for a metallic gold fringe about 1.25" long that would?
>have been used on a gown in 1812. I'm also looking for a matching gold?
>braid about 1/8" wide.?
>If the gown was made in the UK would this trim be silk or cotton??
>Bye, Aylwen?
?
In all probability it would have been "gold" fringe. Gold and silver thread was 
used for embroidery, usually a flat strip wound round a core of silk, often 
yellow/gold in colour. Gold and silver bullion was used to make fringe, and as 
far as I know there is no reason to suppose that this would not have been used 
on a dress of 1812.?
?
Suzi?
?
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Re: [h-cost] cleaning a straw hat

[cheryldee]

Jennifer: I attended a workshop several years ago taught by a milliner who 
specialized in straw.? She just dunked the whole hat in a bucket of water and 
reshaped the wet hat over a form followed up by judicious use of a regular 
steam iron.? I didn't know until then that straw was so forgiving.? I have had 
great luck with my straw hats in tems of cleaning them just using soap and 
water and following up with a little steaming to reshape them.

Cheryl Odom
College of Santa Fe

-Original Message-
From: Avien 
To: h-cost...@indra.com
Sent: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 5:08 pm
Subject: [h-cost] cleaning a straw hat



Hello,

I just purchased an old straw hat that is rather dusty.  The decorations are
all trashed but the straw still seems to be good to my very much untrained
eye.  Any ideas on how to clean it up and get it ready to be worn?  I find
conflicting info when I google it and I don't want to ruin it.  Also the
straw is a bit darker than I like and I'm hoping that just cleaning it will
lighten it but in case it doesn't, is there any way to lighten it?

Thanks!
Jennifer
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Re: [h-cost] Curtain tape as costume supply item?

[cheryldee]

Thanks.  I knew 'how' to use it, but was not certain about costume
applications.  The bulk issue had not entered my mind and was exactly what I
was looking for.  If there is a costume application for this product, it
needs to be seriously considered against the more traditional techniques.  I
won't just dive in with it head-first. 

It may end up in a donations box.

Thanks.

Laurie





It makes quick cartridge pleats,  The tape is bulky, but you have to face the 
waist anyway to make the pleats.  Don't throw it out, if you can't use it give 
it to a costume shop somewhere.





Cheryl












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Re: [h-cost] book on drafting h-costumes

[Cheryldee]

 
In a message dated 6/6/2006 11:13:40 P.M. Mountain Standard Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

So far  we've published one for the late 1860s, two for the late 1870s 
and early  1880s, and two for 1900-1909.  Details are on our website, 
_http://www.lavoltapress.com_ (http://www.lavoltapress.com) .





I just wanted to put in a plug for the  Lavolta Press pattern books of  the 
late '70s.  We used them last spring in our construction of "A Doll's  House" 
at the College of Santa Fe (1879).  Although I prefer draping to  flat 
patterning, I found them extremely useful in the placement of seams and  
arrangement 
of back draperies.  This is a period (between bustles) that can  be difficult 
to find, as many books just skip right over it.  It was also a  new period for 
me to work in, which was exciting.  Also, the R. L. Shep  book from about the 
same period includes an extensive section at the back on  proper etiquette in 
the wearing of women's garments from the period. (the  binding fell apart 
almost immediately and I will have to have it rebound).   Overall, I have found 
that the books from both of these small publishers to be  extremely helpful. 
 
Cheryl Odom
College of Santa Fe
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Re: [h-cost] costume texts

[Cheryldee]

 
In a message dated 7/12/2006 8:11:46 A.M. Mountain Standard Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


Probably not, it's the 1965 edition -- and there's no mention  of
"revised" anywhere in that front matter.  (I know that there's a  term
for it, I just don't know what it is!)  I had no idea it was  still in
print!



It was in print until last year, when it went out of print.  I prefer  it for 
my students because there is more historic content and it weighs less and  is 
smaller (thinking of student back packs).  However, the Eubank and  Tortora 
book (which I feel is geared more toward the fashion designer than the  costume 
designer-lots of 20th century) now comes with its own Power Point which  is 
also Smart Board friendly and has a final page of Internet links which you  can 
click on and bring up for the class if you have a smart board and/or your  
computer has an Internet connection.  However, the Power Point lectures are  
skimpy in visual images so I added some from my own Power Point lectures.   I'm 
feeling like it's time for a new text.  Anyone out there up to the  task?  
 
Cheryl Odom
College of Santa Fe
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Re: [h-cost] amusing fashion plates

[Cheryldee]

 
In a message dated 7/29/2006 8:00:55 A.M. Mountain Standard Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

IIRC,  The Frog is the prince or king or royal someone of France that she was 
 supposedly being 'courted' by.  Never came to anything, since she had no  
intention of ever marrying... I'm sure someone on this list can get the french  
royalty' name I can't seem to remember right now.  

Elena/Gia  



I've seen these in a book somewhere.  Like the historic fashion paper  doll 
books published by Dover and mainly illustrated by Tom Tierney.  If  anyone has 
the publisher, members of this list might be interested.  And I  don't recall 
any of it being in Japanese!  Which leads me to believe these  are scanned 
images from the book.  Copyright issues?
 
Cheryl Odom
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Re: [h-cost] amusing fashion plates

[Cheryldee]

 
In a message dated 7/30/2006 10:32:00 P.M. Mountain Standard Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

The  pictures are from a book, The Elegant Beast" by Leonard Lubin, 1981,  
Viking Press. The ISBN is 0-670-29097-1. I own a copy and I have delighted  
in the 
illustrations for years.

Kathleen  Norvell



It's out of print but there were 9 copies at Amazon this morning.  Now  there 
are 8.  ;-) I didn't check with other used book sellers online.
 
Cheryl Odom
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Re: [h-cost] duvetyn

[Cheryldee]

 
In a message dated 8/26/2006 11:01:47 P.M. Mountain Standard Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

For  blocking out lightin theatre and film. And it does it very well  
too.  
The fabric is thick and felted. It doesn't have a nap. It doesn't  ravel  
much 
either if at all. It's kinda like 18th or 19th century  wool. We  even made 
some frock coats out of some left over from the  scene dept. once.  It's not 
wool 
though, but made of some  synthetic.



Actually, the duvetyn made for theatre drapes is cotton and  fireproofed.  It 
is relatively inexpensive, given what it is, and  comes in incredible widths. 
 (118" wide at Dazians and in two  thicknesses.  And I suspect the original 
product (lost in the mists of  time) was made of wool and used for outer 
garments???  It doesn't have a  nap because it is brushed, like flannel.  And 
in the 
theatre the spelling  is Duvateen.  I would caution against using it for 
clothing next to the  body, given the fireproofing which can irritate and dry 
the 
skin.  Most  fireproofing has salt in it.  However, you could wash it and 
remove most of  the fireproofing, allowing for shrinkage.  And there now 
appears 
to be a  synthetic version of it, although I have not experienced it.  
 
Cheryl Odom, College of Santa Fe
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[h-cost] 17th Century question

[Cheryldee]

My costume design class is researching the 1660's for "Tartuffe".   They had 
a question about the strange little head piece seen on some ladies of  the 
period.  It is a little disk attached to the forehead with a protruding  stick 
and ball attached to the end.  What is that?  Is it worn for a  special 
occasion 
or in a particular part of Europe?  It seems to occur  primarily in "Low 
Countries" research.  Can anyone give me some  information.  Sometimes 
(usually), 
the teacher doesn't know  everything.  They are awaiting your response.  
Thanks ever so  much!
 
Cheryl Odom
College of Santa Fe
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[h-cost] Costume design degrees

[Cheryldee]

Has anyone come across any online sites that list colleges/universities  
that give degrees in fashion and/or MFAs in costume design or  
technology?  I want to share them with my  students.

Sylrog

The USITT home page has a link with most of the  reliable colleges and 
universities in the area of costuming and costume  design.  Lots of good advice 
in 
choosing a school, too.  
 
Cheryl Odom, College of Santa Fe
 
_http://www.usitt.org/costume/survey/_ (http://www.usitt.org/costume/survey/) 
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[h-cost] "Asian-inspired"

[Cheryldee]

This is being described in the promo literature as "asian  inspired".
> Anyone got a better idea what this embroidered coat is based  on? That
> looks like an embroidered seam line at the back of her  shoulder, and an
> underarm gusset. After that, I'm not sure.
 
Looks a lot like stuff from the area around the Caucusus or maybe  Carpathian 
Mountains ie. Romania, Macedonia in terms of muliple buttons and  embroidery. 
 The hat looks definitely Mongolian or from that part of the  world.  Belt 
and collar also more Asian.  My 2 cents.
 
Cheryl Odom

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[h-cost] 60's dress code

[Cheryldee]

<>

Penny: I am a little bit older than you.  In the sixties, girls  weren't 
allowed to have skirts that measured more than 3 inches above the knee  in my 
little town in California.  This odious (?) task was assigned to a  male staff 
member who the students referred to as "Swamp Fox".  He ran  around the 
corridors 
with a ruler.  We shortened our skirts by rolling them  up at the waist, so 
it was easy, when we saw him coming with his little ruler to  roll our skirts 
down long enough for him to pass.  Even so, my sister was  sent home several 
times to get a longer skirt.  I think she planned it that  way.  There were 
extremes of makeup involving eye liner and white lipstick  which didn't seem to 
matter.  And, of course, the hair towered above  the head in a teased and hair 
sprayed helmet.
 
Boys weren't allowed to wear blue jeans and their hair could not touch  their 
collars in the back.  I remember something about a coach who also  roamed the 
corridors with a pair of scissors looking for long hair to  butcher.  
Teachers could get away with more then.
 
Cheryl Odom
Formerly of San Luis Obispo, California



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Re: now costume design, was Re: [h-cost] new Butterick pattern 5061

[Cheryldee]

 
In a message dated 5/2/2007 6:54:45 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Of  course, actor safety, comfort, and the ability to do quick- 
changes, dance  moves, sword fights, or whatever else needs to happen  
in the show  also often have an impact.  I once draped an HMS Pinafore  
set  in the 1880s (really tight sleeves on really tight bodices _plus_   
bustles) and was informed after all the mockups were done that one  of  
the ladies had to do a handstand  onstage.




Don't ya love it?  And I had a "lady" in a gowne and surcote do a  cartwheel. 
 And she was extremely overweight, which the director thought  was funny.  
Maybe he was the only one.
 
Cheryl Odom
College of Santa Fe



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Re: [h-cost]fabric widths (was Theater vs. Historic)

[Cheryldee]

 
In a message dated 5/4/2007 6:41:52 A.M. Mountain Daylight Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

A nearer  time period for this study of the constraints of fabric width/usage 
and  its effect on  clothing design is the Utility rules in place during WW2. 
 
There were strict rules for manufacturers of civilian wear in how much  
fabric could be used for specified garments. These restrictions are  directly 
seen in the creative cut and line of fashion  developed.



Always nice to change the subject line when the topic changes  
radically.;-)



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Re: [h-cost] Inner Stiffening

[Cheryldee]

 
In a message dated 6/4/2007 3:31:39 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

I'm  looking for advice on a lining material to stiffen the stand-up collars 
of  my husband's cotehardies.  I've got some lightweight linen that I'm  
planning on using for him this summer, and it will definitely need some  help 
to keep the collar in an upright position. 

Is buckram  washable?  If not, what do you recommend I use to add some 
stiffness  to the collar? 



Collar canvas and Rigilene.  You can find the canvas at a  tailoring supply 
company and the Rigiline (plastic boning) usually at  Joanne's.  It will lay 
nicer if you also pad stitch the outside fabric to  the canvas.  
 
Cheryl Odom



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Re: [h-cost] Inner Stiffening

[Cheryldee]

 
In a message dated 6/5/2007 7:00:46 A.M. Mountain Daylight Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

I'm not  certain, but I would guess not.  I imagine the dry-cleaning   
solvent would remove the sizing even more effectively than  water!   
I'm happy to be corrected, though, if anyone has  experience to the  
contrary.

Melanie


On Jun 5,  2007, at 3:33 AM, Silvara wrote:

> Is buckram dry  cleanable?
>
> Silvara



I would recommend not using buckram.  Because I don't imagine  that it's dry 
cleanable, plus minute it gets wet the starch runs out.   Even if you happen 
accidentally to get caught in a down pour.  It would  lose its integrity and 
possibly stain the collar with white starch.   Yuck!  Also, collar canvas, to 
my 
knowledge, is made of a combination of  linen and horse hair.  Nothing 
"plastic" in it if you seek out the real  stuff.  This for the purists.
 
Cheryl Odom



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Re: [h-cost] Inner Stiffening Sources

[Cheryldee]

 
In a message dated 6/8/2007 5:57:34 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Where would you get  hair canvas.  I've never seen it before.  Lynn

Diana Habra  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:  I second the hair canvas suggestion. I 
 use it to stiffen all of my bodices
and sleeves (if they need it). It is  lightweight, gives a natural-looking
stiffness, and breathes  well.



Any place that sells tailoring supplies.  It usually goes by the brand  name 
of "Hymo".  Collar canvas is stiffer and you have to ask specifically  for 
that.  Both contain linen and horse hair.  If you get the cheap  "Hymo" it has 
polyester in it and won't shape well.  Also, stay away from  the fusible stuff 
which is not nearly as good and also contains polyester. 
 
Try Greenburg and Hammer in NYC
 
_www.greenberg-hammer.com_ (http://www.greenberg-hammer.com) 
 
or B. Black and Sons in LA Garment District
 
www.bblackandsons.com
 
 or Levine Brothers in Los Angeles.
 
_Levine Brothers Woolens and Tailor  Supplies_ 
(http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&safe=off&btnG=Search&um=1&q=levine+brothers&near=Los+Angeles
,+CA&fb=1&latlng=34160087,-118371764,10485584516962819214) 
4907 Lankershim Blvd, North Hollywood - 4907 Lankershim 
 
Chery





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[h-cost] What are these ladies doing? (because we're no longer talking about just the lady in the middle...

[cheryldee]

Actually the second lady is using a position more like one would use for 
crochet and her other hand doesn't seem to have a needle as much as it seems to 
be holding taught thread.  Her work resembles crocheted lace more than 
knitting.  Had to get my 2Cent worth.  It's amazing how much comment this 
thread has engendered.
 
Cheryl Odom
Santa Fe, New Mexico
 
"Carol Kocian wrote:
>  I'm more curious about the woman who appears to be knitting
>something lace on two needles. She has them in that "50s housewife"
>position with the ends up.

I don't know about '50s housewives - I was taught to knit in 1950s England with 
the needle ends down - but I have seen a Norwegian lady knitting in that 
position. As these ladies are presumably Swedish, I guess it's a Scandinavian 
technique.

Kate Bunting
Librarian & 17th century reenactor
"


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[h-cost] 1880's ballgown

[cheryldee]

I would be prettier if your strips were cut on the bias.  They would drape 
better and the edges wouldn't have to be finished off, just pressed lightly 
under.

Cheryl Odom

 "Should I 
ultimately just drape strips of fabric along the edge and sew it down? 





I would. After the gown is all made up, I would just actually drape what I 
wanted and baste/ hand sew it on. This is often what they did. And it can be 
removed or changed later easily of you want. It's not structural so it doesn't 
need sturdy sewing. Unless you want it somehow coming from a seam or something, 
I would just treat it as an applied decoration."






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[h-cost] Temporary quick change tattoos

[cheryldee]

"seems like leotards with painted tattoos on souffle or lightweight power net 
would work the best."
This is a wonderful suggestion and exactly what I would do myself.  You can 
also buy net tattoo sleeves and full bodies.  You might be able to cut them up 
and reapply them to another net underlayer if the designs are suitable and save 
yourself a lot of time.  Apply in a few key places with spirit gum or attach to 
the costume.  I don't know where on the body you want the tatoos.  I found 
these with a quick "google": http://www.bewild.com/meslfubodeta.html

Cheryl Odom

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[h-cost] hooks and bars

[cheryldee]

Kimiko: Are you sewing the tops of the hooks down as well as they eyes?  If 
not, they will flop around and be visible.


Cheryl Odom
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[h-cost] Penny's link re: archeology of a dress

[cheryldee]

Penny; This link isn't working on my end.

Cheryl Odom



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[h-cost] Pitti Palace Costume Collection

[cheryldee]

I visited the costume exhibit at the Pitti Palace in early June.  It was 
interesting, but underwhelming.  Perhaps I was jaded having recently visited 
the Victoria and Albert Museum in London and the Fashion Museum in Bath.  The 
method of presentation was interesting at the Pitti Palace, juxtaposing fashion 
styles throughout history in the same display case to show influences.  For 
example, a 20th Century example of an Empire waist from the 60's might be 
displayed with a garment from around 1913 as well as one from the Napoleonic 
Era.  Even so, the collection is smallish.  

Cheryl Odom
Santa Fe, New Mexico



-Original Message-
From: Charlene C 
To: Historical Costume 
Sent: Fri, Aug 16, 2013 10:01 am
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Museum reference


Pitti Palace has a costume section, but doesn't appear to have any special
exhibits at the moment (or at least none that are on their website):

http://www.museumsinflorence.com/musei/costume_gallery.html

http://www.sbas.fi.it/english/musei/palazzopitti/

--Charlene



On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 11:04 PM, Pierre & Sandy Pettinger <
costu...@radiks.net> wrote:

> I have this vague recent memory of reading about a historical clothing
> exhibit at a museum in Florence, Italy that recently opened or will open
> soon.  IIRC, it was roughly Renaissance era clothing.  I think it might
> have been mentioned in Threads, but I can't locate my most current issue to
> check.
>
> Our nephew is going to be studying in Florence for about 6 weeks, and I
> wanted to pass along a request to go and take pics (if allowed) or buy the
> exhibit book (if there is one).
>
> Does anyone have any ideas of what I'm trying to remember?  I need this
> info in the next couple of days, unfortunately.
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Sandy
>
> International Costumers' Guild Archivist
>
> http://www.costume.org/**gallery2/main.php
>
> "Those Who Fail to Learn History
> Are Doomed to Repeat It;
> Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly -
> Why They Are Simply Doomed."
>
> Achemdro'hm
> "The Illusion of Historical Fact"
> -- C. Y. 4971
>
> Andromeda
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[h-cost] Edwardian School Attire Question

[cheryldee]

Well, I'm finally stumped.  I got this email from a friend who is a playwright. 
 I don't have an answer for her and time is of the essence.  Do any of you know 
what she's talking about?  "Dear Cheryl,

The current work refers to a pre-adolescent boy wearing his "school scarf" - 
it's 1907.  I envisage something like a Hogwarts scarf, but he wears it instead 
of a belt, to hold up his trousers (would be flannels were he older).  I'm 
googling madly to understand what this piece of clothing would be (the scarf) 
that could go through belt loops.  I know Bertie Wooster wore his school tie as 
a belt (that's a little bit later, right?), but this kid has a tie on as well.

Help!

Thanks,
Deb"

Cheryl Odom
Santa Fe, New Mexico

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