Re: [Hampshire] OT: Part-P rant
Stephen Rowles wrote: > Maybe I don't understand, but as I see it Electricians and the IEE must be > great at lobbying the government to create this legally required money > making scheme :( > > I wish to run a spur in my house, I know what I'm doing where I want to > run it and I am sure that it is the only spur on that particular ring > circuit so there won't be any problems. > > Addition to an existing circuit is consider a minor works and you don't need a full test and inspection. You can do it yourself but I suspect you'd find it difficult to get an electrician to give you a minor works cert and it wouldn't probably cost nearly as much as asking them to do it anyway. The reality is that no one would know you did it and unless insurance companies start to insist on a recent test and inspection, you'll have no problems. I have the C&G 16th wiring regs and Test and Inspection certificates. John. -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
Re: [Hampshire] OT: Part-P rant
2008/10/21 Steve Kemp <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > On Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 16:17:37 +0100, Philip Stubbs wrote: > >> I want to see the whole thing. Are you going to document the build? > > Once it is complete I'll probably put something together on my site: > >http://www.steve.org.uk/docs/steam/ > > I've got images of a couple of bits at the moment, but they're not > collected or organised. Most of this is a learning process. I think > the next job is to make a steam-powered paddle boat. > > If you like this kind of thing then this site will probably be > either known to you, or amazingly cool: > >http://www.crabfu.com/steamtoys/ I took my family to Hollycombe (http://www.hollycombe.co.uk/) a couple of weeks ago. They have a few nights a year where they run the steam fairground late, the lights and the steam are great in the dark. I can highly recommend it! I'm not really a steam buff, but I can certainly appreciate the work that has gone into restoring these fantastic machines. Going to have to go back in the daylight some time to see all the other engines running (just hope there are enough volunteers available to run them!). Rich -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
Re: [Hampshire] OT: Part-P rant
On Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 16:17:37 +0100, Philip Stubbs wrote: > I want to see the whole thing. Are you going to document the build? Once it is complete I'll probably put something together on my site: http://www.steve.org.uk/docs/steam/ I've got images of a couple of bits at the moment, but they're not collected or organised. Most of this is a learning process. I think the next job is to make a steam-powered paddle boat. If you like this kind of thing then this site will probably be either known to you, or amazingly cool: http://www.crabfu.com/steamtoys/ Steve -- -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
Re: [Hampshire] OT: Part-P rant
On Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 16:07:36 +0100, Peter Salisbury wrote: > OK, you've got me: what do you use to make the cylinder? Wood too. My design is a little more complex, but very similar to this one: http://www.keveney.com/watt.html So the cylinder will, mostly, be a block of wood with carefully drilled out body, and a dowel sliding up/down inside it. I've got the watts linkage mostly built at the moment, although getting that right took far far far too long. Steve -- # Commercial Debian GNU/Linux Support http://www.linux-administration.org/ -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
Re: [Hampshire] OT: Part-P rant
2008/10/21 Peter Salisbury <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > 2008/10/21 Steve Kemp <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: >> On Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 13:49:10 +0100, Wayne Lee wrote: >> >>> > At one point I was using a steam engine to open my curtains, but >>> > more for novelty than for practicality. >>> >>> Some people have far too much spare time. >> >> I was challenged to demonstrate that my collection of engines >> were useful in some fashion! >> >> Mind I've spent about three weeks on a project to construct, from >> scratch, a wooden beam engine. That's very labour intensive. For >> example it took me about five hours to make a single spoked wheel: >> >>http://www.steve.org.uk/Images/2008/09/wheel.jpg >> >> I'm hoping it'll be finished by this time next year, but I'll >> not be surprised if it takes far longer.. >> >> Steve > > OK, you've got me: what do you use to make the cylinder? I want to see the whole thing. Are you going to document the build? -- Philip Stubbs -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
Re: [Hampshire] OT: Part-P rant
2008/10/21 Steve Kemp <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > On Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 13:49:10 +0100, Wayne Lee wrote: > >> > At one point I was using a steam engine to open my curtains, but >> > more for novelty than for practicality. >> >> Some people have far too much spare time. > > I was challenged to demonstrate that my collection of engines > were useful in some fashion! > > Mind I've spent about three weeks on a project to construct, from > scratch, a wooden beam engine. That's very labour intensive. For > example it took me about five hours to make a single spoked wheel: > >http://www.steve.org.uk/Images/2008/09/wheel.jpg > > I'm hoping it'll be finished by this time next year, but I'll > not be surprised if it takes far longer.. > > Steve OK, you've got me: what do you use to make the cylinder? Peter -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
Re: [Hampshire] OT: Part-P rant
2008/10/21 Steve Kemp <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > On Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 13:05:28 +0100, Richard Danter wrote: > >> But is' OK, we will run out of electricity soon anyway and we will be >> back to steam power and candles. ;) > > I'm already prepared, with a few steam engines in my house. I have only one, it's called a kettle. Helps keep the caffeine flowing in my general direction and without it my life would grind to a halt. Not sure it really counts though. :o) Rich -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
Re: [Hampshire] OT: Part-P rant
> Mind I've spent about three weeks on a project to construct, from > scratch, a wooden beam engine. That's very labour intensive. For > example it took me about five hours to make a single spoked wheel: > > http://www.steve.org.uk/Images/2008/09/wheel.jpg > > I'm hoping it'll be finished by this time next year, but I'll > not be surprised if it takes far longer.. > > Steve Sound like fun to me :-) Wayne -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
Re: [Hampshire] OT: Part-P rant
On Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 13:49:10 +0100, Wayne Lee wrote: > > At one point I was using a steam engine to open my curtains, but > > more for novelty than for practicality. > > Some people have far too much spare time. I was challenged to demonstrate that my collection of engines were useful in some fashion! Mind I've spent about three weeks on a project to construct, from scratch, a wooden beam engine. That's very labour intensive. For example it took me about five hours to make a single spoked wheel: http://www.steve.org.uk/Images/2008/09/wheel.jpg I'm hoping it'll be finished by this time next year, but I'll not be surprised if it takes far longer.. Steve -- Debian GNU/Linux System Administration http://www.debian-administration.org/ -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
Re: [Hampshire] OT: Part-P rant
On Tue, 21 Oct 2008 13:30:32 +0100 "Chris Aitken" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hello Chris, > Adding to an existing circuit is non-reportable (minor works). The > 17th edition is a recommendation to follow and is not legally binding. True, but insurance *is* legally binding. Household insurance requires that all electrical installations be carried out to any and all relevant standards. Of course, if you chose not to insure your property(0). (0) Not an option if you have a mortgage as the lender will require you to adequately insure the building. -- Regards _ / ) "The blindingly obvious is / _)radnever immediately apparent" If you ain't sticking your knives in me, you will be eventually Monsoon - Robbie Williams signature.asc Description: PGP signature -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
Re: [Hampshire] OT: Part-P rant
> At one point I was using a steam engine to open my curtains, but more > for novelty than for practicality. Some people have far too much spare time. -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
Re: [Hampshire] OT: Part-P rant
On Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 13:05:28 +0100, Richard Danter wrote: > But is' OK, we will run out of electricity soon anyway and we will be > back to steam power and candles. ;) I'm already prepared, with a few steam engines in my house. At one point I was using a steam engine to open my curtains, but more for novelty than for practicality. Steve -- http://www.steve.org.uk/ -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
Re: [Hampshire] OT: Part-P rant
Adding to an existing circuit is non-reportable (minor works). The 17th edition is a recommendation to follow and is not legally binding. However you do need to follow some standard (you could use a European one). On 10/21/08, Stephen Rowles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Maybe I don't understand, but as I see it Electricians and the IEE must be > great at lobbying the government to create this legally required money > making scheme :( > > I wish to run a spur in my house, I know what I'm doing where I want to > run it and I am sure that it is the only spur on that particular ring > circuit so there won't be any problems. > > However I am now legally obliged to ensure that work I carry out is > compliant with Part P of the building regs, which in turn requires that > all work is carried out to comply with British Standard 7671. > > Although I have DIY books describing how the work should be done, these > were published before Part P and although I am 99% certain they are > correct, the only way to be certain is to check the standard. > > However to check the standard I either have to buy it, £54 from amazon :(, > or find a copy somewhere I can reference (maybe my local Library? no luck > my nearest copy is reference only 15 miles away in the middle of > winchester, which isn't very helpful!) > > Of course this is supposedly to improve safety, but if I was the sort of > person that was going to do a shoddy installation and not care about the > impact, I would just ignore all this and wire the house up dangerously > anyway, the wiring would be behind walls and probably impossible to trace > back to and prove it was me that did the work anyway. > > So I'm stuck with 3 choices, all of which suck: > > 1) Do the work anyway and hope it is correct (not ideal, despite my > annoyance I do want to ensure the work I do is safe) > 2) Pay someone else to do it (who in my experience will end up doing a > worse job that if I did it myself) > 3) Spend large amounts of time / money finding out the right way to do it. > > Why on earth is there a requirement to do electrical work in my own house > that requires me to follow rules which are not freely available! I can't > believe there is a law which says: "you must not break the rules, but we > won't let you know what those rules are until you hand over money". > > Grrr!! > > Cheers, Rant over, I feel better now :) > > Steve > > > -- > Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk > Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire > LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk > -- > -- Sent from Google Mail for mobile | mobile.google.com -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
Re: [Hampshire] OT: Part-P rant
On Tue, 21 Oct 2008 13:05:28 +0100 "Richard Danter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hello Richard, > But is' OK, we will run out of electricity soon anyway and we will be > back to steam power and candles. ;) Hardly; Carbon foot print is too high for such things. To say nothing of naked flames... :-)) -- Regards _ / ) "The blindingly obvious is / _)radnever immediately apparent" Buy some love at the five and dime You Have Placed A Chill In My Heart - Eurythmics signature.asc Description: PGP signature -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
Re: [Hampshire] OT: Part-P rant
On Tue, 21 Oct 2008 11:59:02 + Tony Whitmore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hello Tony, > Some will. Depends on the electrician I suppose. Yes, I overstated the case. Many won't, because they then become liable if a fault develops in the certified work. -- Regards _ / ) "The blindingly obvious is / _)radnever immediately apparent" Bet you thought you knew what I was about Problem - Sex Pistols signature.asc Description: PGP signature -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
Re: [Hampshire] OT: Part-P rant
On Tue, 21 Oct 2008 11:10:01 + "Paul Stimpson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hello Paul, > IIUC the problem may come when you try to move. You should provide the > certificates to the new owner. You may have trouble if the surveyor > sees work and you can't account for it. Whilst that's true, the operative word is "if". It's unlikely that they're going to dig up floorboards, excavate walls, etc. to view electrical installations. In any case, you could quite easily lose such certificates between now and whenever you sell. There could be any number of reasons. Not least of which is the one where people are handed the cert, and immediately bin it, not knowing what it's for or why it should be kept. As a landlord, I'm now obliged to have an energy inspection performed on any property I rent out. It costs about £95, and says I could improve the energy efficiency of the building by having cavity wall insulation, plus various other things over which I have no control(0). The report reads; Cavity wall insulation - none (assumed). (0) Mention is made of light bulbs. Those are fitted by the tenant. If they chose to use tungsten filament lamps, there's nothing I can do to stop them. IOW, they couldn't be arsed to check, either by inspection or asking me. The whole process of producing the report (has to be conducted every ten years) generates more pollution and CO2 (paper used, energy consumed driving to/from property you name it) issues than it will ever save at this particular location. The short version of all this inspection malarky is that, frankly, "it's bollox". -- Regards _ / ) "The blindingly obvious is / _)radnever immediately apparent" Go away, come back, go away, come back Leave Me Alone (I'm Lonely) - P!nk signature.asc Description: PGP signature -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
Re: [Hampshire] OT: Part-P rant
2008/10/21 Brad Rogers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > On Tue, 21 Oct 2008 11:27:15 +0100 (BST) > "Stephen Rowles" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Hello Stephen, > >> Maybe I don't understand, but as I see it Electricians and the IEE >> must be great at lobbying the government to create this legally >> required money making scheme :( > > It is indeed a money making scheme. As an electrician, working for many > years, I can now, legally, do very little. Having said that, I wired up > an entire house less than one year ago, and the electricity supplier > connected up without comment. I am not an electrician, but I am an IET member and I have degrees in electronics and electrical engineering and I still can't legally wire anything up much more than a plug. Won't be long before you need a license to do that too. Then changing a light bulb. But is' OK, we will run out of electricity soon anyway and we will be back to steam power and candles. ;) Rich -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
Re: [Hampshire] OT: Part-P rant
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> X-Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Received: from srv-gw06.tauntons.ac.uk [212.219.117.82] with HTTP/1.1 (POST); Tue, 21 Oct 2008 11:59:02 + User-Agent: RoundCube Webmail/0.1-rc2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On Tue, 21 Oct 2008 11:51:34 +0100, Brad Rogers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Tue, 21 Oct 2008 10:37:36 + > Tony Whitmore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Hello Tony, > >> 4) Do the work yourself and pay an electrician to inspect and certify >> the work. > > They won't do it. There's no need, anyway. Some will. Depends on the electrician I suppose. Tony -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
Re: [Hampshire] OT: Part-P rant
> IIUC the problem may come when you try to move. You should provide the > certificates to the new owner. You may have trouble if the surveyor sees > work and you can't account for it. But only for work that needs to be certificated, which this doesn't, so no problem there :) -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
Re: [Hampshire] OT: Part-P rant
IIUC the problem may come when you try to move. You should provide the certificates to the new owner. You may have trouble if the surveyor sees work and you can't account for it. Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device -Original Message- From: Brad Rogers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 11:51:34 To: Subject: Re: [Hampshire] OT: Part-P rant -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk -- -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
Re: [Hampshire] OT: Part-P rant
>> 4) Do the work yourself and pay an electrician to inspect and certify >> the work. > > They won't do it. My experience is that they will - but the bill[1] will be frighteningly similar to what they'd have charged if they had done the work... Vic. [1] Assuming they don't actually have to rework anything. -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
Re: [Hampshire] OT: Part-P rant
On Tue, 21 Oct 2008 10:45:55 + "Paul Stimpson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hello Paul, > 5) Buy a roll of the old coloured cable, do the job yourself then say > you did it before the regs changed :) > That's what my electrician said... If you can still get the old red/black. It's getting /extremely/ hard to locate. -- Regards _ / ) "The blindingly obvious is / _)radnever immediately apparent" Drums quite good, bass is too loud, and I can't hear the words Sound Of The Suburbs - Members signature.asc Description: PGP signature -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
Re: [Hampshire] OT: Part-P rant
On Tue, 21 Oct 2008 10:37:36 + Tony Whitmore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hello Tony, > 4) Do the work yourself and pay an electrician to inspect and certify > the work. They won't do it. There's no need, anyway. -- Regards _ / ) "The blindingly obvious is / _)radnever immediately apparent" No you can't hop into my shower Leave Me Alone (I'm Lonely) - P!nk signature.asc Description: PGP signature -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
Re: [Hampshire] OT: Part-P rant
On Tue, 21 Oct 2008 11:27:15 +0100 (BST) "Stephen Rowles" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hello Stephen, > Maybe I don't understand, but as I see it Electricians and the IEE > must be great at lobbying the government to create this legally > required money making scheme :( It is indeed a money making scheme. As an electrician, working for many years, I can now, legally, do very little. Having said that, I wired up an entire house less than one year ago, and the electricity supplier connected up without comment. This scheme is simply a tax. The only thing that may be an issue, realistically, is the change of colour scheme from red/black to brown/blue. Other than that, nothing's really changed. So long as you know what you're doing, go ahead. As you're connecting a spur to an existing circuit, it's unlikely that the job is reportable, TBH. There are all sorts of conditions, but it boils down to kitchen, bathroom, outside or new circuit work is automatically reportable. Work valued at under £200 isn't reportable always reportable. Since this is work going on in an existing building, without planning dept knowledge, there's no way they can know about it. Frankly, the whole set up is asinine and unworkable. The idea behind the scheme was to shut the door on the cowboys. Sadly, it's had the opposite effect. To get suitably qualified costs upwards of £3000, with annual costs of about £500. Costs which small outfits have no choice but to pass on to customers. The cowboys look even more attractive now since their prices appear even lower than before. Oh, and in a few years, I'm lead to believe that the same sort of scheme will be applied to plumbers, too. :-( -- Regards _ / ) "The blindingly obvious is / _)radnever immediately apparent" I hope live to relive the days gone by Old Before I Die - Robbie Williams signature.asc Description: PGP signature -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
Re: [Hampshire] OT: Part-P rant
> > 4) Do the work yourself and pay an electrician to inspect and certify the > work. > Thing is as the work is not in a special area, I have no real need to have it certified, I just want it to be correct. With work and current family commitments I have very little time and don't have time to waste waiting around for an electrician to not turn up at the agreed time ;) (I have no luck with trades people, although most of my bad experiences have been with gas rather than electric). It also involves paying.. but I will at least contact some electricians and ask how much they would charge for an inspection but I imagine for just a single spur it will be uneconomic. Of course the other thing may be that I am just worrying to much, I do have a habit of doing that ;) -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
Re: [Hampshire] OT: Part-P rant
5) Buy a roll of the old coloured cable, do the job yourself then say you did it before the regs changed :) That's what my electrician said... Cheers, Paul. Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
Re: [Hampshire] OT: Part-P rant
On Tue, 21 Oct 2008 11:27:15 +0100 (BST), "Stephen Rowles" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > So I'm stuck with 3 choices, all of which suck: > > 1) Do the work anyway and hope it is correct (not ideal, despite my > annoyance I do want to ensure the work I do is safe) > 2) Pay someone else to do it (who in my experience will end up doing a > worse job that if I did it myself) > 3) Spend large amounts of time / money finding out the right way to do it. 4) Do the work yourself and pay an electrician to inspect and certify the work. Tony -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
[Hampshire] OT: Part-P rant
Maybe I don't understand, but as I see it Electricians and the IEE must be great at lobbying the government to create this legally required money making scheme :( I wish to run a spur in my house, I know what I'm doing where I want to run it and I am sure that it is the only spur on that particular ring circuit so there won't be any problems. However I am now legally obliged to ensure that work I carry out is compliant with Part P of the building regs, which in turn requires that all work is carried out to comply with British Standard 7671. Although I have DIY books describing how the work should be done, these were published before Part P and although I am 99% certain they are correct, the only way to be certain is to check the standard. However to check the standard I either have to buy it, £54 from amazon :(, or find a copy somewhere I can reference (maybe my local Library? no luck my nearest copy is reference only 15 miles away in the middle of winchester, which isn't very helpful!) Of course this is supposedly to improve safety, but if I was the sort of person that was going to do a shoddy installation and not care about the impact, I would just ignore all this and wire the house up dangerously anyway, the wiring would be behind walls and probably impossible to trace back to and prove it was me that did the work anyway. So I'm stuck with 3 choices, all of which suck: 1) Do the work anyway and hope it is correct (not ideal, despite my annoyance I do want to ensure the work I do is safe) 2) Pay someone else to do it (who in my experience will end up doing a worse job that if I did it myself) 3) Spend large amounts of time / money finding out the right way to do it. Why on earth is there a requirement to do electrical work in my own house that requires me to follow rules which are not freely available! I can't believe there is a law which says: "you must not break the rules, but we won't let you know what those rules are until you hand over money". Grrr!! Cheers, Rant over, I feel better now :) Steve -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
