Re: Poll: haproxy 1.4 support ?

[Marco Corte]

Hello.

My vote to drop support for version 1.4

.marcoc

Re: Poll: haproxy 1.4 support ?

[Willy Tarreau]

On Tue, Jan 02, 2018 at 07:09:50PM +0100, Tim Düsterhus wrote:
> Willy,
> 
> Am 02.01.2018 um 17:53 schrieb Willy Tarreau:
> > Oh bad, you're right. I wanted to even remove the "main features" part as
> > it's been totally outdated now. This page starts to age a lot. I really
> > think we should replace it all with a wiki so that many more people could
> > participate to the maintenance and keeping it up to date :-/
> > 
> 
> I'm not sure whether a fully automated Wiki would reduce the maintenance
> work, because of possible vandalism and you would need to keep the
> software up to date.

In fact I don't worry too much about vandalism if we require an
authentication from one of the main public providers (eg: google,
github etc). Keeping the software up to date can be cumbersome except
if we find a packaged one giving rolling updates (eg: a docker image
or something like this), or a hosted solution. We do use mediawiki
on the same machine and while I can't judge for the maintenance pain,
it's really convenient to use and usable by everyone given that it's
the same soft used on the #1 world-wide site. I'd very much like to
stick to this one for this main reason.

> Is that a fully static page?

Yes, except the versions, dates and links which are updated via scripts
which run "sed" on the file every night.

> You then could put that into git, configure
> a `post-receive` hook or set `git config receive.denyCurrentBranch
> updateInstead` [1] and accept patches like you do for haproxy itself.

That could also be an option. But I'm pretty sure that a number of users
could participate without even having to use git. For example look at
the architecture manual. It's now 12 years old. Several of us have said
a few times already that we need to rewrite it from scratch. The reason
why it never happens is that it takes a huge amount of work just to catch
up with what we currently have. With an easily accessible wiki, some end
users finding a solution to a problem could simply figure that instead
of documenting their solution on their internal documentation tool, they
could as well put it on the haproxy wiki and share it with others. It
could be a nice way to replace the arch manual over time, and this without
limiting ourselves to the smaller category of people able to use git.

I didn't intend to start up the discussion on this subject here nor now
by the way, I was just thinking loud :-)

Cheers,
Willy

Re: Poll: haproxy 1.4 support ?

[Willy Tarreau]

On Tue, Jan 02, 2018 at 07:03:07PM +0100, Tim Düsterhus wrote:
> Willy,
> 
> Am 02.01.2018 um 17:56 schrieb Willy Tarreau:
> > Just checked there and not only I can only see "alpine" there, there's no
> > single mention of debian on the page. Do you have another URL that I should
> > add maybe ?
> > 
> 
> The ones without a "specifier" are the Debian based ones. This is a
> convention for "official" [1] Docker images if they have both Debian and
> Alpine based ones. You can check by clicking the link for e.g. the
> "latest" image and checking the first line of the Dockerfile.

Ah OK, got it. I didn't notice indeed. I'm updating right now then.

Thanks!
Willy

Re: Poll: haproxy 1.4 support ?

[Tim Düsterhus]

Willy,

Am 02.01.2018 um 17:53 schrieb Willy Tarreau:
> Oh bad, you're right. I wanted to even remove the "main features" part as
> it's been totally outdated now. This page starts to age a lot. I really
> think we should replace it all with a wiki so that many more people could
> participate to the maintenance and keeping it up to date :-/
> 

I'm not sure whether a fully automated Wiki would reduce the maintenance
work, because of possible vandalism and you would need to keep the
software up to date.

Is that a fully static page? You then could put that into git, configure
a `post-receive` hook or set `git config receive.denyCurrentBranch
updateInstead` [1] and accept patches like you do for haproxy itself.

Best regards
Tim Düsterhus

[1] See https://github.com/blog/1957-git-2-3-has-been-released for an
explanation of that feature.

Re: Poll: haproxy 1.4 support ?

[Tim Düsterhus]

Willy,

Am 02.01.2018 um 17:56 schrieb Willy Tarreau:
> Just checked there and not only I can only see "alpine" there, there's no
> single mention of debian on the page. Do you have another URL that I should
> add maybe ?
> 

The ones without a "specifier" are the Debian based ones. This is a
convention for "official" [1] Docker images if they have both Debian and
Alpine based ones. You can check by clicking the link for e.g. the
"latest" image and checking the first line of the Dockerfile.

Best regards
Tim Düsterhus

[1] "Official" meaning they are vetted and don't contain a username. In
some cases the authors maintain them, in some cases (e.g. haproxy) they
don't.

Re: Poll: haproxy 1.4 support ?

[Willy Tarreau]

On Tue, Jan 02, 2018 at 03:23:00PM +, Jonathan Matthews wrote:
> The sustainability of haproxy is linked to the amount of work you (and
> a /relatively/ small set of people) both have to do and want to do.
> I would very much like it to continue happily, so I would vote to
> reduce your mental load and to mark 1.4 as unmaintained.

Do not worry, if I'm asking, it's also because it reached the point of
not representing any mental load at all anymore. Just like 1.5 by the way.
So really my proposal comes from the fact that it basically costs zero to
keep it.

Willy

Re: Poll: haproxy 1.4 support ?

[Willy Tarreau]

On Tue, Jan 02, 2018 at 05:53:00PM +0100, Willy Tarreau wrote:
> > And while you're at it: The "Alpine-based Docker images" link in the
> > side bar technically should be named "Alpine / Debian-based Docker
> > images", but this probably does not fit in.
> 
> I can place two links, one with Alpine and the other one for Debian, even
> if they point to the same location, this way it will fit ;-)

Just checked there and not only I can only see "alpine" there, there's no
single mention of debian on the page. Do you have another URL that I should
add maybe ?

Willy

Re: Poll: haproxy 1.4 support ?

[Willy Tarreau]

Hi Tim!

On Tue, Jan 02, 2018 at 05:28:37PM +0100, Tim Düsterhus wrote:
> Hi
> 
> Am 02.01.2018 um 16:12 schrieb Willy Tarreau:
> > So please simply voice in. Just a few "please keep it alive" will be
> > enough to convince me, otherwise I'll mark it unmaintained.
> > 
> 
> Don't forget to update the version list in the "Description" section on
> haproxy.org: It does not show 1.8 yet and still shows 1.3 as supported.
> The "Main features" section should probably be updated to include 1.6,
> 1.7 and 1.8 as well.

Oh bad, you're right. I wanted to even remove the "main features" part as
it's been totally outdated now. This page starts to age a lot. I really
think we should replace it all with a wiki so that many more people could
participate to the maintenance and keeping it up to date :-/

> And while you're at it: The "Alpine-based Docker images" link in the
> side bar technically should be named "Alpine / Debian-based Docker
> images", but this probably does not fit in.

I can place two links, one with Alpine and the other one for Debian, even
if they point to the same location, this way it will fit ;-)

OK I'm going to see what can quickly be done to lift this page a little
bit.

Thanks,
Willy

Re: Poll: haproxy 1.4 support ?

[Tim Düsterhus]

Hi

Am 02.01.2018 um 16:12 schrieb Willy Tarreau:
> So please simply voice in. Just a few "please keep it alive" will be
> enough to convince me, otherwise I'll mark it unmaintained.
> 

Don't forget to update the version list in the "Description" section on
haproxy.org: It does not show 1.8 yet and still shows 1.3 as supported.
The "Main features" section should probably be updated to include 1.6,
1.7 and 1.8 as well.

And while you're at it: The "Alpine-based Docker images" link in the
side bar technically should be named "Alpine / Debian-based Docker
images", but this probably does not fit in.

Best regards
Tim Düsterhus

Re: Poll: haproxy 1.4 support ?

[Aaron West]

+1

Aaron West

Loadbalancer.org Ltd.
www.loadbalancer.org 

  




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On 2 January 2018 at 15:34, Pavlos Parissis 
wrote:

> On 02/01/2018 04:23 μμ, Jonathan Matthews wrote:
> > On 2 January 2018 at 15:12, Willy Tarreau  wrote:
> >> So please simply voice in. Just a few "please keep it alive" will be
> >> enough to convince me, otherwise I'll mark it unmaintained.
> >
> > I don't use 1.4, but I do have a small reason to say please *do* mark
> > it as unmaintained.
> >
> > The sustainability of haproxy is linked to the amount of work you (and
> > a /relatively/ small set of people) both have to do and want to do.
> > I would very much like it to continue happily, so I would vote to
> > reduce your mental load and to mark 1.4 as unmaintained.
> >
>
> +1
>
> BTW: I don't use/look at haproxy 1.5 version as well...
>
> Cheers,
> Pavlos
>
>

Re: Poll: haproxy 1.4 support ?

[Lucas Rolff]

You don’t

They’ve pinned a version to 1.5.x, in case Software gets deprecated / EOL like 
it happens with things such as PHP being a very good example, the distribution 
are required to support those versions until they EOL that specific release

That’s a part of having a LTS distro, it’s their “problem”, not Willy’s and/or 
haproxy’s in general

Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef>

From: Norman Branitsky 
Sent: Tuesday, January 2, 2018 4:42:02 PM
To: Falco Schmutz / premaccess; Jonathan Matthews
Cc: haproxy
Subject: RE: Poll: haproxy 1.4 support ?

Unfortunately, Red Hat continues to distribute 1.5 in RHEL 7.
How do we get them to upgrade to 1.7 ?

From: Falco Schmutz / premaccess [mailto:fschm...@premaccess.com]
Sent: January-02-18 10:27 AM
To: Jonathan Matthews 
Cc: haproxy 
Subject: Re: Poll: haproxy 1.4 support ?

Yes Jonathan is right, do mark 'unmaintained' or remove it anyway 8 years...
1.5 also can be remove or unmaintained as well.

Cheers ! And Happy New Year :-)

On 2 January 2018 at 16:23, Jonathan Matthews 
mailto:cont...@jpluscplusm.com>> wrote:
On 2 January 2018 at 15:12, Willy Tarreau mailto:w...@1wt.eu>> 
wrote:
> So please simply voice in. Just a few "please keep it alive" will be
> enough to convince me, otherwise I'll mark it unmaintained.

I don't use 1.4, but I do have a small reason to say please *do* mark
it as unmaintained.

The sustainability of haproxy is linked to the amount of work you (and
a /relatively/ small set of people) both have to do and want to do.
I would very much like it to continue happily, so I would vote to
reduce your mental load and to mark 1.4 as unmaintained.

Thank you for haproxy, and here's to a great 2018, with 1.8 and beyond :-)

Jonathan



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RE: Poll: haproxy 1.4 support ?

[Norman Branitsky]

Unfortunately, Red Hat continues to distribute 1.5 in RHEL 7.
How do we get them to upgrade to 1.7 ?

From: Falco Schmutz / premaccess [mailto:fschm...@premaccess.com]
Sent: January-02-18 10:27 AM
To: Jonathan Matthews 
Cc: haproxy 
Subject: Re: Poll: haproxy 1.4 support ?

Yes Jonathan is right, do mark 'unmaintained' or remove it anyway 8 years...
1.5 also can be remove or unmaintained as well.

Cheers ! And Happy New Year :-)

On 2 January 2018 at 16:23, Jonathan Matthews 
mailto:cont...@jpluscplusm.com>> wrote:
On 2 January 2018 at 15:12, Willy Tarreau mailto:w...@1wt.eu>> 
wrote:
> So please simply voice in. Just a few "please keep it alive" will be
> enough to convince me, otherwise I'll mark it unmaintained.

I don't use 1.4, but I do have a small reason to say please *do* mark
it as unmaintained.

The sustainability of haproxy is linked to the amount of work you (and
a /relatively/ small set of people) both have to do and want to do.
I would very much like it to continue happily, so I would vote to
reduce your mental load and to mark 1.4 as unmaintained.

Thank you for haproxy, and here's to a great 2018, with 1.8 and beyond :-)

Jonathan



--



Envie d'échanger ? n’hésitez pas, voici mes disponibilités : 
https://calendly.com/fschmutz


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E-mail : fschm...@premaccess.com<mailto:fschm...@premaccess.com>
Mobile : +33 6 80 22 00 29
Fixe Suisse : +41 44 586 77 74
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CH-1705 Fribourg, Suisse

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Re: Poll: haproxy 1.4 support ?

[Lucas Rolff]

I also vote for both 1.4 and 1.5 being marked, if vendors do rely on old 
versions due to LTS, they tend to backport critical security and bug fixes 
anyway

Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef>

From: Pavlos Parissis 
Sent: Tuesday, January 2, 2018 4:34:39 PM
To: Jonathan Matthews; haproxy
Subject: Re: Poll: haproxy 1.4 support ?

On 02/01/2018 04:23 μμ, Jonathan Matthews wrote:
> On 2 January 2018 at 15:12, Willy Tarreau  wrote:
>> So please simply voice in. Just a few "please keep it alive" will be
>> enough to convince me, otherwise I'll mark it unmaintained.
>
> I don't use 1.4, but I do have a small reason to say please *do* mark
> it as unmaintained.
>
> The sustainability of haproxy is linked to the amount of work you (and
> a /relatively/ small set of people) both have to do and want to do.
> I would very much like it to continue happily, so I would vote to
> reduce your mental load and to mark 1.4 as unmaintained.
>

+1

BTW: I don't use/look at haproxy 1.5 version as well...

Cheers,
Pavlos

Re: Poll: haproxy 1.4 support ?

[Pavlos Parissis]

On 02/01/2018 04:23 μμ, Jonathan Matthews wrote:
> On 2 January 2018 at 15:12, Willy Tarreau  wrote:
>> So please simply voice in. Just a few "please keep it alive" will be
>> enough to convince me, otherwise I'll mark it unmaintained.
> 
> I don't use 1.4, but I do have a small reason to say please *do* mark
> it as unmaintained.
> 
> The sustainability of haproxy is linked to the amount of work you (and
> a /relatively/ small set of people) both have to do and want to do.
> I would very much like it to continue happily, so I would vote to
> reduce your mental load and to mark 1.4 as unmaintained.
> 

+1

BTW: I don't use/look at haproxy 1.5 version as well...

Cheers,
Pavlos



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: Poll: haproxy 1.4 support ?

[Falco Schmutz / premaccess]

Yes Jonathan is right, do mark 'unmaintained' or remove it anyway 8 years...
1.5 also can be remove or unmaintained as well.

Cheers ! And Happy New Year :-)

On 2 January 2018 at 16:23, Jonathan Matthews 
wrote:

> On 2 January 2018 at 15:12, Willy Tarreau  wrote:
> > So please simply voice in. Just a few "please keep it alive" will be
> > enough to convince me, otherwise I'll mark it unmaintained.
>
> I don't use 1.4, but I do have a small reason to say please *do* mark
> it as unmaintained.
>
> The sustainability of haproxy is linked to the amount of work you (and
> a /relatively/ small set of people) both have to do and want to do.
> I would very much like it to continue happily, so I would vote to
> reduce your mental load and to mark 1.4 as unmaintained.
>
> Thank you for haproxy, and here's to a great 2018, with 1.8 and beyond :-)
>
> Jonathan
>
>


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Re: Poll: haproxy 1.4 support ?

[Jonathan Matthews]

On 2 January 2018 at 15:12, Willy Tarreau  wrote:
> So please simply voice in. Just a few "please keep it alive" will be
> enough to convince me, otherwise I'll mark it unmaintained.

I don't use 1.4, but I do have a small reason to say please *do* mark
it as unmaintained.

The sustainability of haproxy is linked to the amount of work you (and
a /relatively/ small set of people) both have to do and want to do.
I would very much like it to continue happily, so I would vote to
reduce your mental load and to mark 1.4 as unmaintained.

Thank you for haproxy, and here's to a great 2018, with 1.8 and beyond :-)

Jonathan