RE: [H] google search for "failure"

[Mark Dodge]

Well in Phoenix it is a black hole for a battery's failure.


Mark Dodge
MD Computers
360-772-2433 
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of FORC5
Sent: Friday, March 03, 2006 2:31 AM
To: The Hardware List
Subject: Re: [H] google search for "failure"

that would be great, guess I need to do some homework on this it is just
because they do not seem to be able to build a decent battery anymore (
outside of Optima ) that will last.
fp

Re: [H] google search for "failure"

[Analyst]

On 3 Mar 2006 at 8:45, FORC5 wrote:

> also takes more energy to produce then gas

Actually not.

"The US Department of Agriculture reports a net energy balance for ethanol 
production of 1.67. In other words, for every one unit of energy used to 
produce ethanol and its 
accompanying co-products, 1.67 units of energy results. However, the US 
Department of Energy reports that petroleum refining can actually have a 
negative energy balance. For 
example, every unit of energy expended in gasoline production is reported to 
result in only 0.79 units of energy in the form of gasoline."  

http://www.cleanairchoice.org/outdoor/E85Background.asp


Vince

RE: [H] google search for "failure"

[Analyst]

Chris,

> Everyone is so terrified of Nuclear Power, which numerous other places
> in the world use to great success, that they are willing to do almost
> anything else with other permanent damage because they find it much
> easier to "sell".

Without the major federal subsidies (meaning your tax dollars as Corporate 
Welfare), "Nuclear Power" is one of THE most expensive forms of energy.


Vince

Re: [H] google search for "failure"

[G.Waleed Kavalec]

PS:  and if anyone thinks I was joking

 http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn4741On 3/3/06, G.Waleed Kavalec <
[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

We need a (really hefty) Ansari X-Prize for the one who invents "Mr. Fusion".
On 3/3/06, Greg Sevart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:> We have to use more nuclear power. I applaud efforts to add wind, thermal,> and solar generation, but I just don't see those every becoming large scale
> enough to make an appreciable dent. (incidentally, did you see that KCP&L is> building a wind generation station out west?)>> Nuclear power, properly regulated and standardized, is incredibly safe and
> clean. The fuel issue will become a nonissue once breeder reactors are> further developed and build en masse.>> Russia figured out that nuclear is the future. They're building 2 new> reactors per year to reach 25% nuclear generation (currently 16%) by 2030.
>> China announced plans to quadruple nuclear power output over the next 20> years--to the tune of 30 new reactors.>> We're starting to move, of course. 16 new reactors are on the drawing
> boards. Orders are expected in late 2007. But we need to get serious...I> would like to see around 50% (20% now) of our KWH coming from nuclear> sources.>> Greg>> - Original Message -
> From: "Chris Reeves" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> To: "'The Hardware List'" <hardware@hardwaregroup.com
>> Sent: Friday, March 03, 2006 7:06 AM> Subject: RE: [H] google search for "failure">>> > The reality is, though, the electric type cars, etc. all require you to
> > create energy somewhere.. I'm laughing a bit at places like Montana where> > you've got a Governor asking to open up strip mining for more "coal based> > solutions".> >
> > Everyone is so terrified of Nuclear Power, which numerous other places in> > the world use to great success, that they are willing to do almost> > anything> > else with other permanent damage because they find it much easier to
> > "sell".> >> > CW> >> > -Original Message-> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of FORC5> > Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 7:40 PM> > To: The Hardware List
> > Subject: Re: [H] google search for "failure"> >> > I'm interested in what the greenies are going to do when all those> > batteries> > hit the scrap pile.> > IMO large vehicles keep gas prices lower, big oil is not going to live
> > with> > lower profits which is what would happen if all cars got 50mph, they would> > raise the rates to keep profits the same, we would get 50 mph but would> > still cost us the same each year to operate. >:-}
> >> > fp> >> > At 06:17 PM 3/2/2006, Greg Sevart Poked the stick with:> >> >>I'd prefer an electric vehicle. When they finally figure out that the real> > solution is all-electric with nuclear, wind, solar, and hydrothermal power
> > sources, and put a decent sized motor in a car with a Li-Ion battery that> > uses the nanotech Panasonic invented, and can do so without being $80,000,> > I'm there. Until then, I'm going to buy vehicles with big fat V8's.
> >>> >>Greg> >> > --> > Tallyho ! ]:8)> > Taglines below !> > --> > Think much, speak little, and write less.> >> >
>>>--G. Waleed Kavalec-Why are we all in this handbasket  and where is it going so fast?
http://www.kavalec.com/thisisislam.swf--  G. Waleed Kavalec-Why are we all in this handbasket  and where is it going so fast?
 http://www.kavalec.com/thisisislam.swf

Re: [H] google search for "failure"

[G.Waleed Kavalec]

We need a (really hefty) Ansari X-Prize for the one who invents "Mr. Fusion".



On 3/3/06, Greg Sevart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> We have to use more nuclear power. I applaud efforts to add wind, thermal,
> and solar generation, but I just don't see those every becoming large scale
> enough to make an appreciable dent. (incidentally, did you see that KCP&L is
> building a wind generation station out west?)
>
> Nuclear power, properly regulated and standardized, is incredibly safe and
> clean. The fuel issue will become a nonissue once breeder reactors are
> further developed and build en masse.
>
> Russia figured out that nuclear is the future. They're building 2 new
> reactors per year to reach 25% nuclear generation (currently 16%) by 2030.
>
> China announced plans to quadruple nuclear power output over the next 20
> years--to the tune of 30 new reactors.
>
> We're starting to move, of course. 16 new reactors are on the drawing
> boards. Orders are expected in late 2007. But we need to get serious...I
> would like to see around 50% (20% now) of our KWH coming from nuclear
> sources.
>
> Greg
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Chris Reeves" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "'The Hardware List'" 
> Sent: Friday, March 03, 2006 7:06 AM
> Subject: RE: [H] google search for "failure"
>
>
> > The reality is, though, the electric type cars, etc. all require you to
> > create energy somewhere.. I'm laughing a bit at places like Montana where
> > you've got a Governor asking to open up strip mining for more "coal based
> > solutions".
> >
> > Everyone is so terrified of Nuclear Power, which numerous other places in
> > the world use to great success, that they are willing to do almost
> > anything
> > else with other permanent damage because they find it much easier to
> > "sell".
> >
> > CW
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of FORC5
> > Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 7:40 PM
> > To: The Hardware List
> > Subject: Re: [H] google search for "failure"
> >
> > I'm interested in what the greenies are going to do when all those
> > batteries
> > hit the scrap pile.
> > IMO large vehicles keep gas prices lower, big oil is not going to live
> > with
> > lower profits which is what would happen if all cars got 50mph, they would
> > raise the rates to keep profits the same, we would get 50 mph but would
> > still cost us the same each year to operate. >:-}
> >
> > fp
> >
> > At 06:17 PM 3/2/2006, Greg Sevart Poked the stick with:
> >
> >>I'd prefer an electric vehicle. When they finally figure out that the real
> > solution is all-electric with nuclear, wind, solar, and hydrothermal power
> > sources, and put a decent sized motor in a car with a Li-Ion battery that
> > uses the nanotech Panasonic invented, and can do so without being $80,000,
> > I'm there. Until then, I'm going to buy vehicles with big fat V8's.
> >>
> >>Greg
> >
> > --
> > Tallyho ! ]:8)
> > Taglines below !
> > --
> > Think much, speak little, and write less.
> >
> >
>
>
>


--

G. Waleed Kavalec
-
Why are we all in this handbasket
  and where is it going so fast?

http://www.kavalec.com/thisisislam.swf

Re: [H] google search for "failure"

[Greg Sevart]

We have to use more nuclear power. I applaud efforts to add wind, thermal, 
and solar generation, but I just don't see those every becoming large scale 
enough to make an appreciable dent. (incidentally, did you see that KCP&L is 
building a wind generation station out west?)


Nuclear power, properly regulated and standardized, is incredibly safe and 
clean. The fuel issue will become a nonissue once breeder reactors are 
further developed and build en masse.


Russia figured out that nuclear is the future. They're building 2 new 
reactors per year to reach 25% nuclear generation (currently 16%) by 2030.


China announced plans to quadruple nuclear power output over the next 20 
years--to the tune of 30 new reactors.


We're starting to move, of course. 16 new reactors are on the drawing 
boards. Orders are expected in late 2007. But we need to get serious...I 
would like to see around 50% (20% now) of our KWH coming from nuclear 
sources.


Greg

- Original Message - 
From: "Chris Reeves" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "'The Hardware List'" 
Sent: Friday, March 03, 2006 7:06 AM
Subject: RE: [H] google search for "failure"



The reality is, though, the electric type cars, etc. all require you to
create energy somewhere.. I'm laughing a bit at places like Montana where
you've got a Governor asking to open up strip mining for more "coal based
solutions".

Everyone is so terrified of Nuclear Power, which numerous other places in
the world use to great success, that they are willing to do almost 
anything
else with other permanent damage because they find it much easier to 
"sell".


CW

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of FORC5
Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 7:40 PM
To: The Hardware List
Subject: Re: [H] google search for "failure"

I'm interested in what the greenies are going to do when all those 
batteries

hit the scrap pile.
IMO large vehicles keep gas prices lower, big oil is not going to live 
with

lower profits which is what would happen if all cars got 50mph, they would
raise the rates to keep profits the same, we would get 50 mph but would
still cost us the same each year to operate. >:-}

fp

At 06:17 PM 3/2/2006, Greg Sevart Poked the stick with:


I'd prefer an electric vehicle. When they finally figure out that the real

solution is all-electric with nuclear, wind, solar, and hydrothermal power
sources, and put a decent sized motor in a car with a Li-Ion battery that
uses the nanotech Panasonic invented, and can do so without being $80,000,
I'm there. Until then, I'm going to buy vehicles with big fat V8's.


Greg


--
Tallyho ! ]:8)
Taglines below !
--
Think much, speak little, and write less.

Re: [H] google search for "failure"

[Hayes Elkins]

As is soy based biodiesel.



From: Ben Ruset <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: The Hardware List 
To: The Hardware List 
Subject: Re: [H] google search for "failure"
Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2006 11:13:30 -0500

Corn based ethanol. Soybean based ethanol is efficient.

FORC5 wrote:

also takes more energy to produce then gas
fp

Re: [H] google search for "failure"

[Ben Ruset]

Corn based ethanol. Soybean based ethanol is efficient.

FORC5 wrote:

also takes more energy to produce then gas
fp

Re: [H] google search for "failure"

[FORC5]

also takes more energy to produce then gas
fp

At 07:58 AM 3/3/2006, G.Waleed Kavalec Poked the stick with:
>As I understand it the real problem with ethanol is that it won't go
>though existing pipelines.
>
>And THAT is a monster of a chicken-egg issue.
>
>
>
>On 3/3/06, j m g <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> The funny thing is you have all these american car companies saying
>> it's soo hard to get off gas, do a google on Brazil and Ethanol, you
>> can get a car down there that will switch from deisel or gas to
>> ethanol with the flip of a switch so you can use what's convenient,
>> guess who makes those cars - Ford.
>>
>> And the real kicker, the ethanol they are producing, based off cane
>> not corn packs more of a punch than gas.
>>
>> Yes I realize the whole chicken and the egg, I'm not going to find
>> straight ethanol at the corner gas station.  Yes it would take some
>> sort of government mandate, but before you free market wonks ruffle
>> yourself over that, just don't, not with all the govt handouts being
>> given to the current energy industry.  Why is it that Citgo is being
>> investigated for setting up a program to give discounted oil/gas to
>> low income folks but exxon/mobil got barely a look for price gouging.
>>
>> On 3/3/06, warpmedia <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> > Better we work on filtering technology then creating more nuclear waste
>> > that can't be gotten rid of, only stored. Then there's the issue that a
>> > nuke plant is essentially a dirty bomb ripe to be detonated.
>> >
>> > Fuel-cell + Battery + Ethanol sound like they could be good tech if
>> > that's what the market was buying as a whole for cars. Add to that,
>> > Solar could be viable to power homes.
>> >
>> > Chris Reeves wrote:
>> > > The reality is, though, the electric type cars, etc. all require you to
>> > > create energy somewhere.. I'm laughing a bit at places like Montana where
>> > > you've got a Governor asking to open up strip mining for more "coal based
>> > > solutions".
>> > >
>> > > Everyone is so terrified of Nuclear Power, which numerous other places in
>> > > the world use to great success, that they are willing to do almost 
>> > > anything
>> > > else with other permanent damage because they find it much easier to 
>> > > "sell".
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>> --
>> -jmg
>> -sapere aude
>>
>>
>
>
>--
>
>G. Waleed Kavalec
>-
>Why are we all in this handbasket
>  and where is it going so fast?
>
>http://www.kavalec.com/thisisislam.swf

-- 
Tallyho ! ]:8)
Taglines below !
--
The true test of giving is when it has no benefit to yourself.

Re: [H] google search for "failure"

[G.Waleed Kavalec]

As I understand it the real problem with ethanol is that it won't go
though existing pipelines.

And THAT is a monster of a chicken-egg issue.



On 3/3/06, j m g <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> The funny thing is you have all these american car companies saying
> it's soo hard to get off gas, do a google on Brazil and Ethanol, you
> can get a car down there that will switch from deisel or gas to
> ethanol with the flip of a switch so you can use what's convenient,
> guess who makes those cars - Ford.
>
> And the real kicker, the ethanol they are producing, based off cane
> not corn packs more of a punch than gas.
>
> Yes I realize the whole chicken and the egg, I'm not going to find
> straight ethanol at the corner gas station.  Yes it would take some
> sort of government mandate, but before you free market wonks ruffle
> yourself over that, just don't, not with all the govt handouts being
> given to the current energy industry.  Why is it that Citgo is being
> investigated for setting up a program to give discounted oil/gas to
> low income folks but exxon/mobil got barely a look for price gouging.
>
> On 3/3/06, warpmedia <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Better we work on filtering technology then creating more nuclear waste
> > that can't be gotten rid of, only stored. Then there's the issue that a
> > nuke plant is essentially a dirty bomb ripe to be detonated.
> >
> > Fuel-cell + Battery + Ethanol sound like they could be good tech if
> > that's what the market was buying as a whole for cars. Add to that,
> > Solar could be viable to power homes.
> >
> > Chris Reeves wrote:
> > > The reality is, though, the electric type cars, etc. all require you to
> > > create energy somewhere.. I'm laughing a bit at places like Montana where
> > > you've got a Governor asking to open up strip mining for more "coal based
> > > solutions".
> > >
> > > Everyone is so terrified of Nuclear Power, which numerous other places in
> > > the world use to great success, that they are willing to do almost 
> > > anything
> > > else with other permanent damage because they find it much easier to 
> > > "sell".
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> -jmg
> -sapere aude
>
>


--

G. Waleed Kavalec
-
Why are we all in this handbasket
  and where is it going so fast?

http://www.kavalec.com/thisisislam.swf

Re: [H] google search for "failure"

[j m g]

The funny thing is you have all these american car companies saying
it's soo hard to get off gas, do a google on Brazil and Ethanol, you
can get a car down there that will switch from deisel or gas to
ethanol with the flip of a switch so you can use what's convenient,
guess who makes those cars - Ford.

And the real kicker, the ethanol they are producing, based off cane
not corn packs more of a punch than gas.

Yes I realize the whole chicken and the egg, I'm not going to find
straight ethanol at the corner gas station.  Yes it would take some
sort of government mandate, but before you free market wonks ruffle
yourself over that, just don't, not with all the govt handouts being
given to the current energy industry.  Why is it that Citgo is being
investigated for setting up a program to give discounted oil/gas to
low income folks but exxon/mobil got barely a look for price gouging.

On 3/3/06, warpmedia <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Better we work on filtering technology then creating more nuclear waste
> that can't be gotten rid of, only stored. Then there's the issue that a
> nuke plant is essentially a dirty bomb ripe to be detonated.
>
> Fuel-cell + Battery + Ethanol sound like they could be good tech if
> that's what the market was buying as a whole for cars. Add to that,
> Solar could be viable to power homes.
>
> Chris Reeves wrote:
> > The reality is, though, the electric type cars, etc. all require you to
> > create energy somewhere.. I'm laughing a bit at places like Montana where
> > you've got a Governor asking to open up strip mining for more "coal based
> > solutions".
> >
> > Everyone is so terrified of Nuclear Power, which numerous other places in
> > the world use to great success, that they are willing to do almost anything
> > else with other permanent damage because they find it much easier to "sell".
>
>


--
-jmg
-sapere aude

Re: [H] google search for "failure"

[Wayne Johnson]

At 09:02 AM 3/3/2006, warpmedia typed:
Better we work on filtering technology then creating more nuclear 
waste that can't be gotten rid of, only stored. Then there's the 
issue that a nuke plant is essentially a dirty bomb ripe to be detonated.


Not really & even if it were true do you know how many components of 
bombs are found in everyday life? Just ask the victim's families of 
the Oklahoma City bombing.  Point is just because the components are 
there doesn't mean they make a good bomb.  The components are there 
in your car but that doesn't mean we should stop driving. Heck one 
could get sun burned if precautions aren't taken. India & Japan all 
use nukes successfully & we're losing ground economically to them 
every day. I know for a fact they weren't designed to the constraints 
that the plants in the US were. Heck in the US plants we designed for 
non radiated water pipes to whiplash & the main turbine to be hit by 
a telephone pole during a tornado & the odds were still very very low 
of radiation leaks. The odds were higher if you step off a curb in bo-dunk.


Fuel-cell + Battery + Ethanol sound like they could be good tech if 
that's what the market was buying as a whole for cars. Add to that, 
Solar could be viable to power homes.


One needs sunlight for that & we certainly don't get enough of that 
in the northern half of the US otherwise people wouldn't suffer from 
blues in the winter.



--+--
   Wayne D. Johnson
Ashland, OH, USA 44805
 

Re: [H] google search for "failure"

[Hayes Elkins]

And use more fossil fuels to manufacture than a traditional car.



From: Christopher Fisk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: The Hardware List 
To: The Hardware List 
Subject: Re: [H] google search for "failure"
Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 23:04:44 -0500 (EST)

On Thu, 2 Mar 2006, FORC5 wrote:

I'm interested in what the greenies are going to do when all those 
batteries hit the scrap pile.


Those batteries are almost 100% recyclable.


Christopher Fisk
--
Peter Griffin: Lois, the bar has been taken over by a bunch of lousy, 
limey, no-good, tea-sucking British bastards.

Re: [H] google search for "failure"

[warpmedia]

Better we work on filtering technology then creating more nuclear waste 
that can't be gotten rid of, only stored. Then there's the issue that a 
nuke plant is essentially a dirty bomb ripe to be detonated.


Fuel-cell + Battery + Ethanol sound like they could be good tech if 
that's what the market was buying as a whole for cars. Add to that, 
Solar could be viable to power homes.


Chris Reeves wrote:

The reality is, though, the electric type cars, etc. all require you to
create energy somewhere.. I'm laughing a bit at places like Montana where
you've got a Governor asking to open up strip mining for more "coal based
solutions".

Everyone is so terrified of Nuclear Power, which numerous other places in
the world use to great success, that they are willing to do almost anything
else with other permanent damage because they find it much easier to "sell".

RE: [H] google search for "failure"

[Chris Reeves]

The reality is, though, the electric type cars, etc. all require you to
create energy somewhere.. I'm laughing a bit at places like Montana where
you've got a Governor asking to open up strip mining for more "coal based
solutions".

Everyone is so terrified of Nuclear Power, which numerous other places in
the world use to great success, that they are willing to do almost anything
else with other permanent damage because they find it much easier to "sell".

CW

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of FORC5
Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 7:40 PM
To: The Hardware List
Subject: Re: [H] google search for "failure"

I'm interested in what the greenies are going to do when all those batteries
hit the scrap pile.
IMO large vehicles keep gas prices lower, big oil is not going to live with
lower profits which is what would happen if all cars got 50mph, they would
raise the rates to keep profits the same, we would get 50 mph but would
still cost us the same each year to operate. >:-}

fp

At 06:17 PM 3/2/2006, Greg Sevart Poked the stick with:

>I'd prefer an electric vehicle. When they finally figure out that the real
solution is all-electric with nuclear, wind, solar, and hydrothermal power
sources, and put a decent sized motor in a car with a Li-Ion battery that
uses the nanotech Panasonic invented, and can do so without being $80,000,
I'm there. Until then, I'm going to buy vehicles with big fat V8's.
>
>Greg

-- 
Tallyho ! ]:8)
Taglines below !
--
Think much, speak little, and write less.

Re: [H] google search for "failure"

[FORC5]

that would be great, guess I need to do some homework on this it is just 
because they do not seem to be able to build a decent battery anymore ( outside 
of Optima ) that will last.
fp

At 09:04 PM 3/2/2006, Christopher Fisk Poked the stick with:
>On Thu, 2 Mar 2006, FORC5 wrote:
>
>>I'm interested in what the greenies are going to do when all those batteries 
>>hit the scrap pile.
>
>Those batteries are almost 100% recyclable.
>
>
>Christopher Fisk
>-- 
>Peter Griffin: Lois, the bar has been taken over by a bunch of lousy, limey, 
>no-good, tea-sucking British bastards.

-- 
Tallyho ! ]:8)
Taglines below !
--
Shareware, crippleware, annoyware, underwear.

Re: [H] google search for "failure"

[Thane Sherrington (S)]

At 09:17 PM 02/03/2006, Greg Sevart wrote:
But I'm not about to feel guilty for buying and driving a vehicle I 
like and can afford.


I think that's his point.  Either you honestly don't feel guilty, or 
you choose not too.  The question is - shouldn't one feel guilty 
about buying more of anything than one needs when there are other 
people in one's own country (I'm not talking Africa, I'm talking 
Canada and the US) who can't afford what they need?  Shouldn't one 
buy the vehicle one needs and then use any money saved on helping 
someone else?  I don't have an answer to this, and I certainly buy 
more than I need.  But I think in a world of finite resources, our 
consume as much as we can mentality is going to take us down a bad road.


T 

Re: [H] google search for "failure"

[Christopher Fisk]

On Thu, 2 Mar 2006, FORC5 wrote:

I'm interested in what the greenies are going to do when all those 
batteries hit the scrap pile.


Those batteries are almost 100% recyclable.


Christopher Fisk
--
Peter Griffin: Lois, the bar has been taken over by a bunch of lousy, 
limey, no-good, tea-sucking British bastards.

Re: [H] google search for "failure"

[Christopher Fisk]

On Thu, 2 Mar 2006, Ben Ruset wrote:


I drive my 2500lb SUV 1 mile to get on a bus to NY. Am I green or wasteful? :)


You just have brains.  Walking 1 mile in NY in the winter?  Those people 
are the insane ones.



Christopher Fisk
--
PAIN IS NOT THE CLEANSER
PAIN IS NOT THE CLEANSER
Bart Simpson on chalkboard in episode 5F10

Re: [H] google search for "failure"

[Ben Ruset]

I'm all about the hydrogen powered car.

They should have made the turbine car from the 1960s. That thing could 
run on perfume.


Greg Sevart wrote:
Oh, don't feel too bad. I'm currently at 4100lbs, and am looking at two 
vehicles...one at 4500lbs, the other at 4900lbs.


But I'm not about to feel guilty for buying and driving a vehicle I like 
and can afford.


I'd prefer an electric vehicle. When they finally figure out that the 
real solution is all-electric with nuclear, wind, solar, and 
hydrothermal power sources, and put a decent sized motor in a car with a 
Li-Ion battery that uses the nanotech Panasonic invented, and can do so 
without being $80,000, I'm there. Until then, I'm going to buy vehicles 
with big fat V8's.

Re: [H] google search for "failure"

[FORC5]

I'm interested in what the greenies are going to do when all those batteries 
hit the scrap pile.
IMO large vehicles keep gas prices lower, big oil is not going to live with 
lower profits which is what would happen if all cars got 50mph, they would 
raise the rates to keep profits the same, we would get 50 mph but would still 
cost us the same each year to operate. >:-}

fp

At 06:17 PM 3/2/2006, Greg Sevart Poked the stick with:

>I'd prefer an electric vehicle. When they finally figure out that the real 
>solution is all-electric with nuclear, wind, solar, and hydrothermal power 
>sources, and put a decent sized motor in a car with a Li-Ion battery that uses 
>the nanotech Panasonic invented, and can do so without being $80,000, I'm 
>there. Until then, I'm going to buy vehicles with big fat V8's.
>
>Greg

-- 
Tallyho ! ]:8)
Taglines below !
--
Think much, speak little, and write less.

Re: [H] google search for "failure"

[Greg Sevart]

Oh, don't feel too bad. I'm currently at 4100lbs, and am looking at two 
vehicles...one at 4500lbs, the other at 4900lbs.


But I'm not about to feel guilty for buying and driving a vehicle I like and 
can afford.


I'd prefer an electric vehicle. When they finally figure out that the real 
solution is all-electric with nuclear, wind, solar, and hydrothermal power 
sources, and put a decent sized motor in a car with a Li-Ion battery that 
uses the nanotech Panasonic invented, and can do so without being $80,000, 
I'm there. Until then, I'm going to buy vehicles with big fat V8's.


Greg

- Original Message - 
From: "Ben Ruset" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "The Hardware List" 
Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 5:36 PM
Subject: Re: [H] google search for "failure"



Oh. Well then I am even worse.

Greg Sevart wrote:

Hah!
2006 Wrangler...the lightest one (2.4L I4 with manual tranny) is 3200lbs.
:)

Greg

- Original Message - From: "Ben Ruset" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "The Hardware List" 
Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 5:04 PM
Subject: Re: [H] google search for "failure"



Jeep Wrangler!

Greg Sevart wrote:

They make SUVs that are only 2500lbs?
:)

Greg

- Original Message - From: "Ben Ruset" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "The Hardware List" 
Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 4:24 PM
Subject: Re: [H] google search for "failure"


I drive my 2500lb SUV 1 mile to get on a bus to NY. Am I green or 
wasteful? :)


Also, my cellphone can take video, so I guess I do have some form of 
video camera.


FORC5 wrote:

I do not have one of those or a video camera.
fp

At 08:33 AM 3/2/2006, Al Poked the stick with:

The scary part is the rest of the world is waking up and saying; 
"Where is my 2500 lb. SUV to drive 1/4 mile to the video store?"

Re: [H] google search for "failure"

[Ben Ruset]

Oh. Well then I am even worse.

Greg Sevart wrote:

Hah!
2006 Wrangler...the lightest one (2.4L I4 with manual tranny) is 3200lbs.
:)

Greg

- Original Message - From: "Ben Ruset" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "The Hardware List" 
Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 5:04 PM
Subject: Re: [H] google search for "failure"



Jeep Wrangler!

Greg Sevart wrote:

They make SUVs that are only 2500lbs?
:)

Greg

- Original Message - From: "Ben Ruset" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "The Hardware List" 
Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 4:24 PM
Subject: Re: [H] google search for "failure"


I drive my 2500lb SUV 1 mile to get on a bus to NY. Am I green or 
wasteful? :)


Also, my cellphone can take video, so I guess I do have some form of 
video camera.


FORC5 wrote:

I do not have one of those or a video camera.
fp

At 08:33 AM 3/2/2006, Al Poked the stick with:

The scary part is the rest of the world is waking up and saying; 
"Where is my 2500 lb. SUV to drive 1/4 mile to the video store?"

Re: [H] google search for "failure"

[Hayes Elkins]

What SUV weighs 2500lbs? A mini-cooper-UV?



From: Ben Ruset <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: The Hardware List 
To: The Hardware List 
Subject: Re: [H] google search for "failure"
Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2006 17:24:24 -0500

I drive my 2500lb SUV 1 mile to get on a bus to NY. Am I green or wasteful? 
:)


Also, my cellphone can take video, so I guess I do have some form of video 
camera.


FORC5 wrote:

I do not have one of those or a video camera.
fp

At 08:33 AM 3/2/2006, Al Poked the stick with:

The scary part is the rest of the world is waking up and saying; "Where 
is my 2500 lb. SUV to drive 1/4 mile to the video store?"

Re: [H] google search for "failure"

[Greg Sevart]

Hah!
2006 Wrangler...the lightest one (2.4L I4 with manual tranny) is 3200lbs.
:)

Greg

- Original Message - 
From: "Ben Ruset" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "The Hardware List" 
Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 5:04 PM
Subject: Re: [H] google search for "failure"



Jeep Wrangler!

Greg Sevart wrote:

They make SUVs that are only 2500lbs?
:)

Greg

- Original Message - From: "Ben Ruset" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "The Hardware List" 
Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 4:24 PM
Subject: Re: [H] google search for "failure"


I drive my 2500lb SUV 1 mile to get on a bus to NY. Am I green or 
wasteful? :)


Also, my cellphone can take video, so I guess I do have some form of 
video camera.


FORC5 wrote:

I do not have one of those or a video camera.
fp

At 08:33 AM 3/2/2006, Al Poked the stick with:

The scary part is the rest of the world is waking up and saying; 
"Where is my 2500 lb. SUV to drive 1/4 mile to the video store?"

Re: [H] google search for "failure"

[Ben Ruset]

Jeep Wrangler!

Greg Sevart wrote:

They make SUVs that are only 2500lbs?
:)

Greg

- Original Message - From: "Ben Ruset" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "The Hardware List" 
Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 4:24 PM
Subject: Re: [H] google search for "failure"


I drive my 2500lb SUV 1 mile to get on a bus to NY. Am I green or 
wasteful? :)


Also, my cellphone can take video, so I guess I do have some form of 
video camera.


FORC5 wrote:

I do not have one of those or a video camera.
fp

At 08:33 AM 3/2/2006, Al Poked the stick with:

The scary part is the rest of the world is waking up and saying; 
"Where is my 2500 lb. SUV to drive 1/4 mile to the video store?"

Re: [H] google search for "failure"

[Greg Sevart]

They make SUVs that are only 2500lbs?
:)

Greg

- Original Message - 
From: "Ben Ruset" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "The Hardware List" 
Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 4:24 PM
Subject: Re: [H] google search for "failure"


I drive my 2500lb SUV 1 mile to get on a bus to NY. Am I green or 
wasteful? :)


Also, my cellphone can take video, so I guess I do have some form of 
video camera.


FORC5 wrote:

I do not have one of those or a video camera.
fp

At 08:33 AM 3/2/2006, Al Poked the stick with:

The scary part is the rest of the world is waking up and saying; 
"Where is my 2500 lb. SUV to drive 1/4 mile to the video store?"

Re: [H] google search for "failure"

[FORC5]

evolution baby >:-}

At 03:24 PM 3/2/2006, Ben Ruset Poked the stick with:
>I drive my 2500lb SUV 1 mile to get on a bus to NY. Am I green or wasteful? :)
>
>Also, my cellphone can take video, so I guess I do have some form of video 
>camera.
>
>FORC5 wrote:
>>I do not have one of those or a video camera.
>>fp
>>At 08:33 AM 3/2/2006, Al Poked the stick with:
>>
>>>The scary part is the rest of the world is waking up and saying; "Where is 
>>>my 2500 lb. SUV to drive 1/4 mile to the video store?"
>
>-- 
>Tallyho ! ]:8)
>Taglines below !
>--
>Take egotism out, and you castrate the benefactors.

Re: [H] google search for "failure"

[Ben Ruset]

I drive my 2500lb SUV 1 mile to get on a bus to NY. Am I green or 
wasteful? :)


Also, my cellphone can take video, so I guess I do have some form of 
video camera.


FORC5 wrote:

I do not have one of those or a video camera.
fp

At 08:33 AM 3/2/2006, Al Poked the stick with:

The scary part is the rest of the world is waking up and saying; 
"Where is my 2500 lb. SUV to drive 1/4 mile to the video store?"

Re: [H] google search for "failure"

[FORC5]

I do not have one of those or a video camera.
fp

At 08:33 AM 3/2/2006, Al Poked the stick with:

>The scary part is the rest of the world is waking up and saying; 
>"Where is my 2500 lb. SUV to drive 1/4 mile to the video store?"

-- 
Tallyho ! ]:8)
Taglines below !
--
Take egotism out, and you castrate the benefactors.

Re: [H] google search for "failure"

[Al]

Ben; thx for the reply.

Ben Ruset <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Al wrote:
> > The weather guy on the local NBC affiliate said the other day as they
> > were discussing something caught on video tape, "  I mean, come on.  Who
> > doesn't have a video camera these days?
> 
> I don't have a video camera. :)

Exactly. The point was just how out of touch the "haves" in our Western
culture are.
> 
> > 15% of the worlds population uses 90% of the worlds consumables.
> 
> Why are there poor societies? People live in resource poor places, or 
> the system of government in the area is corrupt or unable to improve the 
> quality of life for the citizenry.

It's their fault we (generally, as a nation) drive a 2500 lb. SUV 1/2 mile
to the "convenience store" instead of walking; creating the fattest
people in history? (rhetorical question  :) )
> 
> > Americans are so busy feeding the throw-away consumer treadmill, they
> > are completely out of touch with the reality of the world situation.  And
> > the marketers (Madison Ave,) are doing their best to keep the wool
> > pulled over "our" eyes.
> 
> I would say that it's not just America, but all "Western" societies.

Yes, I wish I had made that clear.
> 
> > Kids refusing to go to school because they don't have the latest $250
> > sneakers. I have a friend who loves Tommy Hillfigure <--SP He only buys
> > Tommy clothing. 
> 
> Then that kid is out of style. Tommy Hilfiger has not been "cool" in 
> quite a long time.

Thanks for proving my point.  :)
> 
> That said, I have had some Tommy clothing that has been through hell and 
> back. It's held up well under use - probably better than clothes that I 
> could have bought at Wal-Mart. While the clothing may be "stylish" 
> oftentimes it is also made better. Something that is a little more 
> expensive but lasts is better than something cheap but only lasts two or 
> three washes.

But that's you, and a few other "smart" consumers. Just guessing here;
most purchases are made for style.

Level of importance:

Brand   98%
how many times it goes through the wash   2%

> 
> > He thinks his "worth" can be measured by his "stuff". Get the right car,
> > get the girl. Wear the "latest" shirt, you are a success.
> 
> Unfortunately right now our society places a high value on image.

And where did that come from?  Is that the message we learned form:

our parents?  (sometimes, and/or a little; but what parents say and do
is often quite different. ( don't cheat; then get a ticket for speeding))

our civic leaders?   (hahaha)

our religious leaders, our teachers?

I came from blind greed capitalism. Capitalism that thinks it's OK to
make a science of exploiting the the weakest in human nature.

In my opinion, it's not OK to "Pavlov's Dog" me with Intel's, 
Bing Bing Bing Bing.
(you know the audio, it just went off in your head, right on que)
> 
> > I mean who do we think we are?  Are we entitled to cut all the old
> > growth forrest, extract all the crude oil, etc.. in 150 years, leaving
> > nothing to our great grand children but debt to China?
> 
> You think any other nation does as much for environmental conservation 
> as the USA? We lead the way in preserving the environment.

I really meant, again, Western Culture, like above. Sorry I didn't make
it more clear.

The scary part is the rest of the world is waking up and saying; 
"Where is my 2500 lb. SUV to drive 1/4 mile to the video store?"


regards,
Al


"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)

Re: [H] google search for "failure"

[Ben Ruset]

Al wrote:

The weather guy on the local NBC affiliate said the other day as they
were discussing something caught on video tape, "  I mean, come on.  Who
doesn't have a video camera these days?


I don't have a video camera. :)


15% of the worlds population uses 90% of the worlds consumables.


Why are there poor societies? People live in resource poor places, or 
the system of government in the area is corrupt or unable to improve the 
quality of life for the citizenry.



Americans are so busy feeding the throw-away consumer treadmill, they
are completely out of touch with the reality of the world situation.  And
the marketers (Madison Ave,) are doing their best to keep the wool
pulled over "our" eyes.


I would say that it's not just America, but all "Western" societies.


Kids refusing to go to school because they don't have the latest $250
sneakers. I have a friend who loves Tommy Hillfigure <--SP He only buys
Tommy clothing. 


Then that kid is out of style. Tommy Hilfiger has not been "cool" in 
quite a long time.


That said, I have had some Tommy clothing that has been through hell and 
back. It's held up well under use - probably better than clothes that I 
could have bought at Wal-Mart. While the clothing may be "stylish" 
oftentimes it is also made better. Something that is a little more 
expensive but lasts is better than something cheap but only lasts two or 
three washes.



He thinks his "worth" can be measured by his "stuff". Get the right car,
get the girl. Wear the "latest" shirt, you are a success.


Unfortunately right now our society places a high value on image.


I mean who do we think we are?  Are we entitled to cut all the old
growth forrest, extract all the crude oil, etc.. in 150 years, leaving
nothing to our great grand children but debt to China?


You think any other nation does as much for environmental conservation 
as the USA? We lead the way in preserving the environment.

Re: [H] google search for "failure"

[Al]

It's called, "Asleep in the American Dream". 

The weather guy on the local NBC affiliate said the other day as they
were discussing something caught on video tape, "  I mean, come on.  Who
doesn't have a video camera these days?

"I had to email the station head;
http://9news.com/company/contact/mc.asp
and ask,

"What about the thousands of viewers who are struggling to put rice on
the dinner table?". "Where is their video camera?"

15% of the worlds population uses 90% of the worlds consumables.

Americans are so busy feeding the throw-away consumer treadmill, they
are completely out of touch with the reality of the world situation.  And
the marketers (Madison Ave,) are doing their best to keep the wool
pulled over "our" eyes.

Kids refusing to go to school because they don't have the latest $250
sneakers. I have a friend who loves Tommy Hillfigure <--SP He only buys
Tommy clothing. 

I told him he should be getting paid to "bill-board" their brand, not
pay them for the privilege.  He has no idea what I mean But he is
sold.  Let me repeat,  SOLD. 

He thinks his "worth" can be measured by his "stuff". Get the right car,
get the girl. Wear the "latest" shirt, you are a success.

It can't last forever, nothing does.  Americans are in for a "balancing"
faze. Our unrealistically high standard of living must come in line with
what the planet can support. 

Someday, I hope we learn the difference between compassionate,
responsible capitalism, and blind greed capitalism.

I mean who do we think we are?  Are we entitled to cut all the old
growth forrest, extract all the crude oil, etc.. in 150 years, leaving
nothing to our great grand children but debt to China?

Asleep in the American Dream, a nightmare in the making. Correction are
in order and ta king place now. Ask GM.

"Brian Weeden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I think the point is that neither side in politics has much to be proud about.
> 
> On 3/1/06, Bryan Seitz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > On Wed, Mar 01, 2006 at 11:33:27PM -0500, Hayes Elkins wrote:
> > > He is the most useless lump of dog shit to ever step foot in public 
> > > office.
> > >
> > > And guess what - he still won, TWICE.
> > >
> > > Who's the bigger loser/fuckup?
> >
> > America :)
> >
> > --
> >
> > Bryan G. Seitz
> >
> 
> 
> --
> Brian


"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)

Re: [H] google search for "failure"

[Brian Weeden]

I think the point is that neither side in politics has much to be proud about.

On 3/1/06, Bryan Seitz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 01, 2006 at 11:33:27PM -0500, Hayes Elkins wrote:
> > He is the most useless lump of dog shit to ever step foot in public office.
> >
> > And guess what - he still won, TWICE.
> >
> > Who's the bigger loser/fuckup?
>
> America :)
>
> --
>
> Bryan G. Seitz
>


--
Brian

Re: [H] google search for "failure"

[Bryan Seitz]

On Wed, Mar 01, 2006 at 11:33:27PM -0500, Hayes Elkins wrote:
> He is the most useless lump of dog shit to ever step foot in public office.
> 
> And guess what - he still won, TWICE.
> 
> Who's the bigger loser/fuckup?

America :)

-- 
 
Bryan G. Seitz

Re: [H] google search for "failure"

[Hayes Elkins]

He is the most useless lump of dog shit to ever step foot in public office.

And guess what - he still won, TWICE.

Who's the bigger loser/fuckup?



From: Bryan Seitz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: The Hardware List 
To: The Hardware List 
Subject: Re: [H] google search for "failure"
Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 22:40:26 -0500

Are you not saying Bush is a 100% retard and one of the worst
presidents ever?

On Wed, Mar 01, 2006 at 10:02:49PM -0500, Hayes Elkins wrote:
> 2004 called...and it didn't amount to shit back then either. The left is
> sometimes too clever and cute gimmicks like this are just choir 
preaching.

>
>
> >From: Jim Edwards <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Reply-To: The Hardware List 
> >To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com
> >Subject: [H] google search for "failure"
> >Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2006 17:53:44 -0500
> >
> >May upset some but I think it is funny. (well, not funny but more like
> >hitting the head of the nail)
> >
> >http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Failure
> >
>

--

Bryan G. Seitz

Re: [H] google search for "failure"

[Bryan Seitz]

Are you not saying Bush is a 100% retard and one of the worst
presidents ever?

On Wed, Mar 01, 2006 at 10:02:49PM -0500, Hayes Elkins wrote:
> 2004 called...and it didn't amount to shit back then either. The left is 
> sometimes too clever and cute gimmicks like this are just choir preaching.
> 
> 
> >From: Jim Edwards <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Reply-To: The Hardware List 
> >To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com
> >Subject: [H] google search for "failure"
> >Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2006 17:53:44 -0500
> >
> >May upset some but I think it is funny. (well, not funny but more like 
> >hitting the head of the nail)
> >
> >http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Failure
> >
> 

-- 
 
Bryan G. Seitz

RE: [H] google search for "failure"

[Hayes Elkins]

2004 called...and it didn't amount to shit back then either. The left is 
sometimes too clever and cute gimmicks like this are just choir preaching.




From: Jim Edwards <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: The Hardware List 
To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com
Subject: [H] google search for "failure"
Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2006 17:53:44 -0500

May upset some but I think it is funny. (well, not funny but more like 
hitting the head of the nail)


http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Failure

Re: [H] google search for "failure"

[Bryan Seitz]

On Wed, Mar 01, 2006 at 05:53:44PM -0500, Jim Edwards wrote:
> May upset some but I think it is funny. (well, not funny but more like 
> hitting the head of the nail)
> 
> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Failure

Amen.

And it's hitting the nail on the head ;)

-- 
 
Bryan G. Seitz