RE: Re: RE: Re: [H] Gas prices
Industrial hemp, digested to methane and powering fuel cells. Dave Gibney Pullman, WA And it wasn't the Governor :) > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:hardware- > [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ben Ruset > Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 1:57 PM > To: The Hardware List > Subject: Re: Re: RE: Re: [H] Gas prices > > I am all about Ethanol. Unfortunately in the US the corn farmers are > pushing for it. Making Ethanol from Corn is the most inefficient way of > doing it, and supposedly yeilds less energy than what was spent in > producing it. > > Making Ethanol from sugar cane, as Brazil has done, makes MORE energy than > what was spent in producing it, and has limited Brazil's dependance on > foreign oil. > > > >From: "jeff.lane" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Date: Wed Aug 17 15:43:42 CDT 2005 > >To: The Hardware List > >Subject: Re: RE: Re: [H] Gas prices > > >Hell, we can grow ethanol. Read the stars, guys, we are getting screwed! > The > >oil companies have been crying for years that oil prices are way behind > >inflation. I say, so what! I thought the idea was to keep inflation down > in > >the first place. The Government needs to include fuel and food in the > >inflation indicators. Of course, if they do prime interest rates would be > at > >50% or more by now! > > > >We have plenty of alternatives to gas and batteryso why not use them? > We > >all know why. I think if this keeps up, and I see no reason for it not > >too(with the oil companies' and Arab greedcan you say jihad in > >disguise), we will see a flood of small companies offering conversions to > >anything from chicken manure to corn flakes. > > > >BTW. Our new piece of crap Governor just signed a 9.5 cent increase in > our > >state gas taxes..highest in the US..again! OH..$6.00 per > carton > >increase for cigarettes, $6.00 per gallon booze, reinitiated the only > estate > >taxes, and a whole lot more. We really need that right now! > > > >Sorryhad a senior moment and had to get that out. My fixed income > will > >go up about $2.50 a month. Chris, you're rightI will not do math in > >class > > > >Jeff > > > >From: "Ben Ruset" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > >Subject: Re: RE: Re: [H] Gas prices > > > > > >>A few years ago BMW showed off a 5 series that ran off water. It cracked > >>the water into hydrogen within the car itself. > >> > >> Of course that tech won't ever see the light of day. :( > >> > >>>From: 007 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >>>Date: Wed Aug 17 13:26:05 CDT 2005 > >>>To: The Hardware List > >>>Subject: RE: Re: [H] Gas prices > >> > >>>The most fuel efficient cars use heavy water. > >>> > >>>007. > >>> > >>>-Original Message- > >>>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Christopher > Fisk > >>>Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 2:16 PM > >>>To: The Hardware List > >>>Subject: Re: Re: [H] Gas prices > >>> > >>> > >>>On Wed, 17 Aug 2005, Ben Ruset wrote: > >>> > >>>> It's funny, though, that the gas companies are posting record > profits. > >>>> So I really wonder how much of this is an increase in oil price, and > how > >>>> much is just an excuse to charge more for gasoline. > >>> > >>>I look at it this way, assuming that a gas company wants to make 5% > profit > >>>on every gallon of gas, it's in thier interest to have thier costs go > up > >>>5% because then thier profit goes up too. > >>> > >>>Instead of making 5cents on gas that costs them $1.00 to make they make > 6 > >>>cents profit on gas that cost them $1.05 to make (Or similar, you get > my > >>>point =) > >>> > >>> > >>>Also, the gas we have now was made with oil that cost $50/barrel > instead > >>>of oil that cost $65/barrel, yet we're being charged the $65/barrel > price! > >>> > >>> > >>>Christopher Fisk > >>>-- > >>>I WILL NOT DO MATH IN CLASS > >>>I WILL NOT DO MATH IN CLASS > >>> Lisa Simpson on chalkboard in episode BABF07
Re: RE: Re: [H] Gas prices
You Aussies get nicer cars, I believe the WRX sold in australia has much more aggressive tuning than the one in the US because of the availability of higer octane gas and less onerous polution laws, hardware wise the the US model gets a cat pre turbo other than that the only diff is the tune..and the japan/australian model generates 25 to 35 more hp On 8/18/05, Tony Antoniou <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Only one problem with ethanol ... crap energy density compared to petroleum. > I'm sticking to Shell Optimax premium fuel thanks to its turbo friendly > additives. > > Besides which, our cars here in Australia at least can't handle anything > more than 10% ethanol in our petrol as it results in engine and fuel system > damage. It has been documented for some time here. I'd like to see how your > cars can survive on ethanol yet ours suffer. Must be something in the > engineering of the engines and fuel systems that the ethanol otherwise > attacks in our systems. > > > Adios, > Tony > > --- TAMA - The Strongest Name in Drums --- > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of jeff.lane > Sent: Thursday, 18 August 2005 6:44 > To: The Hardware List > Subject: Re: RE: Re: [H] Gas prices > > Hell, we can grow ethanol. Read the stars, guys, we are getting screwed! The > > oil companies have been crying for years that oil prices are way behind > inflation. I say, so what! I thought the idea was to keep inflation down in > the first place. The Government needs to include fuel and food in the > inflation indicators. Of course, if they do prime interest rates would be at > > 50% or more by now! > > > > -- -jmg Chaos often breeds life, when order breeds habit. Henry Brooks Adams [1838-1918]
RE: RE: Re: [H] Gas prices
Only one problem with ethanol ... crap energy density compared to petroleum. I'm sticking to Shell Optimax premium fuel thanks to its turbo friendly additives. Besides which, our cars here in Australia at least can't handle anything more than 10% ethanol in our petrol as it results in engine and fuel system damage. It has been documented for some time here. I'd like to see how your cars can survive on ethanol yet ours suffer. Must be something in the engineering of the engines and fuel systems that the ethanol otherwise attacks in our systems. Adios, Tony --- TAMA - The Strongest Name in Drums --- -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of jeff.lane Sent: Thursday, 18 August 2005 6:44 To: The Hardware List Subject: Re: RE: Re: [H] Gas prices Hell, we can grow ethanol. Read the stars, guys, we are getting screwed! The oil companies have been crying for years that oil prices are way behind inflation. I say, so what! I thought the idea was to keep inflation down in the first place. The Government needs to include fuel and food in the inflation indicators. Of course, if they do prime interest rates would be at 50% or more by now!
Re: RE: Re: [H] Gas prices
It's very beautiful out here and there is a lot to do on the West Side. 5 Million people living there. It is just the State Government has always ripped everyone off ever since I can remember, and that is a long time. You will enjoy your stay, though. Gas is 2.55-2.65 average so that is pretty much like everyone else. Way too much!!! Jeff - Original Message - From: "Mark Dodge" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'The Hardware List'" Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 11:51 PM Subject: RE: RE: Re: [H] Gas prices Crap, I'm moving to Seattle Mark Dodge MD Computers 602-421-0329 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of jeff.lane Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 4:57 PM To: The Hardware List Subject: Re: RE: Re: [H] Gas prices Spokane - Original Message - From: "Mark Dodge" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'The Hardware List'" Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 2:15 PM Subject: RE: RE: Re: [H] Gas prices You don't live in Washington do you? Mark Dodge MD Computers 602-421-0329 -Original Message- BTW. Our new piece of crap Governor just signed a 9.5 cent increase in our state gas taxes..highest in the US..again! OH..$6.00 per carton increase for cigarettes, $6.00 per gallon booze, reinitiated the only estate taxes, and a whole lot more. We really need that right now! -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.12/75 - Release Date: 8/17/2005
RE: RE: Re: [H] Gas prices
Crap, I'm moving to Seattle Mark Dodge MD Computers 602-421-0329 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of jeff.lane Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 4:57 PM To: The Hardware List Subject: Re: RE: Re: [H] Gas prices Spokane - Original Message - From: "Mark Dodge" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'The Hardware List'" Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 2:15 PM Subject: RE: RE: Re: [H] Gas prices > You don't live in Washington do you? > > > Mark Dodge > MD Computers > 602-421-0329 > -Original Message- > BTW. Our new piece of crap Governor just signed a 9.5 cent increase in our > state gas taxes..highest in the US..again! OH..$6.00 per > carton > increase for cigarettes, $6.00 per gallon booze, reinitiated the only > estate > taxes, and a whole lot more. We really need that right now!
Re: RE: Re: [H] Gas prices
My next door neighbor just moved up there. Small world - Original Message - From: "Julian Hale" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "The Hardware List" Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 10:37 PM Subject: Re: RE: Re: [H] Gas prices Hey, no shit... I just live a little north of you. I'm in Elk. Julian At 04:57 PM 8/17/2005, jeff.lane wrote: Spokane - Original Message - From: "Mark Dodge" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'The Hardware List'" Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 2:15 PM Subject: RE: RE: Re: [H] Gas prices You don't live in Washington do you? -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.12/75 - Release Date: 8/17/2005
Re: RE: Re: [H] Gas prices
Hey, no shit... I just live a little north of you. I'm in Elk. Julian At 04:57 PM 8/17/2005, jeff.lane wrote: Spokane - Original Message - From: "Mark Dodge" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'The Hardware List'" Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 2:15 PM Subject: RE: RE: Re: [H] Gas prices You don't live in Washington do you?
Re: RE: Re: [H] Gas prices
Spokane - Original Message - From: "Mark Dodge" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'The Hardware List'" Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 2:15 PM Subject: RE: RE: Re: [H] Gas prices You don't live in Washington do you? Mark Dodge MD Computers 602-421-0329 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of jeff.lane Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 1:44 PM To: The Hardware List Subject: Re: RE: Re: [H] Gas prices Hell, we can grow ethanol. Read the stars, guys, we are getting screwed! The oil companies have been crying for years that oil prices are way behind inflation. I say, so what! I thought the idea was to keep inflation down in the first place. The Government needs to include fuel and food in the inflation indicators. Of course, if they do prime interest rates would be at 50% or more by now! We have plenty of alternatives to gas and batteryso why not use them? We all know why. I think if this keeps up, and I see no reason for it not too(with the oil companies' and Arab greedcan you say jihad in disguise), we will see a flood of small companies offering conversions to anything from chicken manure to corn flakes. BTW. Our new piece of crap Governor just signed a 9.5 cent increase in our state gas taxes..highest in the US..again! OH..$6.00 per carton increase for cigarettes, $6.00 per gallon booze, reinitiated the only estate taxes, and a whole lot more. We really need that right now! Sorryhad a senior moment and had to get that out. My fixed income will go up about $2.50 a month. Chris, you're rightI will not do math in class Jeff From: "Ben Ruset" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: RE: Re: [H] Gas prices A few years ago BMW showed off a 5 series that ran off water. It cracked the water into hydrogen within the car itself. Of course that tech won't ever see the light of day. :( From: 007 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Wed Aug 17 13:26:05 CDT 2005 To: The Hardware List Subject: RE: Re: [H] Gas prices The most fuel efficient cars use heavy water. 007. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Christopher Fisk Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 2:16 PM To: The Hardware List Subject: Re: Re: [H] Gas prices On Wed, 17 Aug 2005, Ben Ruset wrote: It's funny, though, that the gas companies are posting record profits. So I really wonder how much of this is an increase in oil price, and how much is just an excuse to charge more for gasoline. I look at it this way, assuming that a gas company wants to make 5% profit on every gallon of gas, it's in thier interest to have thier costs go up 5% because then thier profit goes up too. Instead of making 5cents on gas that costs them $1.00 to make they make 6 cents profit on gas that cost them $1.05 to make (Or similar, you get my point =) Also, the gas we have now was made with oil that cost $50/barrel instead of oil that cost $65/barrel, yet we're being charged the $65/barrel price! Christopher Fisk -- I WILL NOT DO MATH IN CLASS I WILL NOT DO MATH IN CLASS Lisa Simpson on chalkboard in episode BABF07 -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.12/75 - Release Date: 8/17/2005
RE: RE: Re: [H] Gas prices
You don't live in Washington do you? Mark Dodge MD Computers 602-421-0329 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of jeff.lane Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 1:44 PM To: The Hardware List Subject: Re: RE: Re: [H] Gas prices Hell, we can grow ethanol. Read the stars, guys, we are getting screwed! The oil companies have been crying for years that oil prices are way behind inflation. I say, so what! I thought the idea was to keep inflation down in the first place. The Government needs to include fuel and food in the inflation indicators. Of course, if they do prime interest rates would be at 50% or more by now! We have plenty of alternatives to gas and batteryso why not use them? We all know why. I think if this keeps up, and I see no reason for it not too(with the oil companies' and Arab greedcan you say jihad in disguise), we will see a flood of small companies offering conversions to anything from chicken manure to corn flakes. BTW. Our new piece of crap Governor just signed a 9.5 cent increase in our state gas taxes..highest in the US..again! OH..$6.00 per carton increase for cigarettes, $6.00 per gallon booze, reinitiated the only estate taxes, and a whole lot more. We really need that right now! Sorryhad a senior moment and had to get that out. My fixed income will go up about $2.50 a month. Chris, you're rightI will not do math in class Jeff From: "Ben Ruset" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: RE: Re: [H] Gas prices >A few years ago BMW showed off a 5 series that ran off water. It >cracked the water into hydrogen within the car itself. > > Of course that tech won't ever see the light of day. :( > >>From: 007 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>Date: Wed Aug 17 13:26:05 CDT 2005 >>To: The Hardware List >>Subject: RE: Re: [H] Gas prices > >>The most fuel efficient cars use heavy water. >> >>007. >> >>-Original Message- >>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Christopher >>Fisk >>Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 2:16 PM >>To: The Hardware List >>Subject: Re: Re: [H] Gas prices >> >> >>On Wed, 17 Aug 2005, Ben Ruset wrote: >> >>> It's funny, though, that the gas companies are posting record profits. >>> So I really wonder how much of this is an increase in oil price, and >>> how much is just an excuse to charge more for gasoline. >> >>I look at it this way, assuming that a gas company wants to make 5% >>profit on every gallon of gas, it's in thier interest to have thier >>costs go up 5% because then thier profit goes up too. >> >>Instead of making 5cents on gas that costs them $1.00 to make they >>make 6 cents profit on gas that cost them $1.05 to make (Or similar, >>you get my point =) >> >> >>Also, the gas we have now was made with oil that cost $50/barrel >>instead of oil that cost $65/barrel, yet we're being charged the $65/barrel price! >> >> >>Christopher Fisk >>-- >>I WILL NOT DO MATH IN CLASS >>I WILL NOT DO MATH IN CLASS >> Lisa Simpson on chalkboard in episode BABF07
Re: Re: Re: [H] Gas prices
The oil companies probably had them killed or paid off. >From: "jeff.lane" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Date: Wed Aug 17 16:00:17 CDT 2005 >To: The Hardware List >Subject: Re: Re: [H] Gas prices >Like cold fusion? There were a couple of scientists, in Utah, several years >ago that claimed they had made cold fusion work. That is clean, safe, >perpetual, fusion .I don't recall their names but they had the scientific >world standing on it's head for sometime until they discovered that it was >not completely perfect, i.e., infinitely renewable. My question would be >just how long did this run without renewal? After the idea of infinity went >away nobody heard anything about these guys. If they had discovered pure >cold fusion we could power a whole city in a clean reactor no bigger that a >service station, if that big. The pellet to run a car thingall of it >runs forever. Anybody think this won't or can't happen, or for that matter, >may already be there??? > >Jeff > >- Original Message - >From: "007" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: "The Hardware List" >Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 11:49 AM >Subject: RE: Re: [H] Gas prices > > >>I was referring to fission technology (U235). Since fusion is years away. >> >> 007. >> >> -Original Message- >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of 007 >> Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 2:26 PM >> To: The Hardware List >> Subject: RE: Re: [H] Gas prices >> >> >> The most fuel efficient cars use heavy water. >> >> 007. >> >> -Original Message- >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Christopher Fisk >> Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 2:16 PM >> To: The Hardware List >> Subject: Re: Re: [H] Gas prices >> >> >> On Wed, 17 Aug 2005, Ben Ruset wrote: >> >>> It's funny, though, that the gas companies are posting record profits. >>> So I really wonder how much of this is an increase in oil price, and how >>> much is just an excuse to charge more for gasoline. >> >> I look at it this way, assuming that a gas company wants to make 5% profit >> on every gallon of gas, it's in thier interest to have thier costs go up >> 5% because then thier profit goes up too. >> >> Instead of making 5cents on gas that costs them $1.00 to make they make 6 >> cents profit on gas that cost them $1.05 to make (Or similar, you get my >> point =) >> >> >> Also, the gas we have now was made with oil that cost $50/barrel instead >> of oil that cost $65/barrel, yet we're being charged the $65/barrel price! >> >> >> Christopher Fisk >> -- >> I WILL NOT DO MATH IN CLASS >> I WILL NOT DO MATH IN CLASS >> Lisa Simpson on chalkboard in episode BABF07
Re: Re: RE: Re: [H] Gas prices
I am all about Ethanol. Unfortunately in the US the corn farmers are pushing for it. Making Ethanol from Corn is the most inefficient way of doing it, and supposedly yeilds less energy than what was spent in producing it. Making Ethanol from sugar cane, as Brazil has done, makes MORE energy than what was spent in producing it, and has limited Brazil's dependance on foreign oil. >From: "jeff.lane" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Date: Wed Aug 17 15:43:42 CDT 2005 >To: The Hardware List >Subject: Re: RE: Re: [H] Gas prices >Hell, we can grow ethanol. Read the stars, guys, we are getting screwed! The >oil companies have been crying for years that oil prices are way behind >inflation. I say, so what! I thought the idea was to keep inflation down in >the first place. The Government needs to include fuel and food in the >inflation indicators. Of course, if they do prime interest rates would be at >50% or more by now! > >We have plenty of alternatives to gas and batteryso why not use them? We >all know why. I think if this keeps up, and I see no reason for it not >too(with the oil companies' and Arab greedcan you say jihad in >disguise), we will see a flood of small companies offering conversions to >anything from chicken manure to corn flakes. > >BTW. Our new piece of crap Governor just signed a 9.5 cent increase in our >state gas taxes..highest in the US..again! OH..$6.00 per carton >increase for cigarettes, $6.00 per gallon booze, reinitiated the only estate >taxes, and a whole lot more. We really need that right now! > >Sorryhad a senior moment and had to get that out. My fixed income will >go up about $2.50 a month. Chris, you're rightI will not do math in >class........ > >Jeff > >From: "Ben Ruset" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Subject: Re: RE: Re: [H] Gas prices > > >>A few years ago BMW showed off a 5 series that ran off water. It cracked >>the water into hydrogen within the car itself. >> >> Of course that tech won't ever see the light of day. :( >> >>>From: 007 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>Date: Wed Aug 17 13:26:05 CDT 2005 >>>To: The Hardware List >>>Subject: RE: Re: [H] Gas prices >> >>>The most fuel efficient cars use heavy water. >>> >>>007. >>> >>>-Original Message- >>>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Christopher Fisk >>>Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 2:16 PM >>>To: The Hardware List >>>Subject: Re: Re: [H] Gas prices >>> >>> >>>On Wed, 17 Aug 2005, Ben Ruset wrote: >>> >>>> It's funny, though, that the gas companies are posting record profits. >>>> So I really wonder how much of this is an increase in oil price, and how >>>> much is just an excuse to charge more for gasoline. >>> >>>I look at it this way, assuming that a gas company wants to make 5% profit >>>on every gallon of gas, it's in thier interest to have thier costs go up >>>5% because then thier profit goes up too. >>> >>>Instead of making 5cents on gas that costs them $1.00 to make they make 6 >>>cents profit on gas that cost them $1.05 to make (Or similar, you get my >>>point =) >>> >>> >>>Also, the gas we have now was made with oil that cost $50/barrel instead >>>of oil that cost $65/barrel, yet we're being charged the $65/barrel price! >>> >>> >>>Christopher Fisk >>>-- >>>I WILL NOT DO MATH IN CLASS >>>I WILL NOT DO MATH IN CLASS >>> Lisa Simpson on chalkboard in episode BABF07
Re: RE: Re: [H] Gas prices
Fuel cells are a very good alternative and should be practically available in the near future. Jeff - Original Message - From: "Christopher Fisk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "The Hardware List" Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 11:39 AM Subject: Re: RE: Re: [H] Gas prices On Wed, 17 Aug 2005, Ben Ruset wrote: A few years ago BMW showed off a 5 series that ran off water. It cracked the water into hydrogen within the car itself. Of course that tech won't ever see the light of day. :( This doesn't make sense. It takes energy to split water into Oxygen and hydrogen. To then burn that hydrogen to power the car is just a waste of energy. Why not just use the energy used to crack the water to power the car? There is no such thing as a perpetual motion machine =) Christopher Fisk -- BOFH Excuse #330: quantum decoherence
Re: RE: Re: [H] Gas prices
Hell, we can grow ethanol. Read the stars, guys, we are getting screwed! The oil companies have been crying for years that oil prices are way behind inflation. I say, so what! I thought the idea was to keep inflation down in the first place. The Government needs to include fuel and food in the inflation indicators. Of course, if they do prime interest rates would be at 50% or more by now! We have plenty of alternatives to gas and batteryso why not use them? We all know why. I think if this keeps up, and I see no reason for it not too(with the oil companies' and Arab greedcan you say jihad in disguise), we will see a flood of small companies offering conversions to anything from chicken manure to corn flakes. BTW. Our new piece of crap Governor just signed a 9.5 cent increase in our state gas taxes..highest in the US..again! OH..$6.00 per carton increase for cigarettes, $6.00 per gallon booze, reinitiated the only estate taxes, and a whole lot more. We really need that right now! Sorryhad a senior moment and had to get that out. My fixed income will go up about $2.50 a month. Chris, you're rightI will not do math in class Jeff From: "Ben Ruset" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: RE: Re: [H] Gas prices A few years ago BMW showed off a 5 series that ran off water. It cracked the water into hydrogen within the car itself. Of course that tech won't ever see the light of day. :( From: 007 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Wed Aug 17 13:26:05 CDT 2005 To: The Hardware List Subject: RE: Re: [H] Gas prices The most fuel efficient cars use heavy water. 007. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Christopher Fisk Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 2:16 PM To: The Hardware List Subject: Re: Re: [H] Gas prices On Wed, 17 Aug 2005, Ben Ruset wrote: It's funny, though, that the gas companies are posting record profits. So I really wonder how much of this is an increase in oil price, and how much is just an excuse to charge more for gasoline. I look at it this way, assuming that a gas company wants to make 5% profit on every gallon of gas, it's in thier interest to have thier costs go up 5% because then thier profit goes up too. Instead of making 5cents on gas that costs them $1.00 to make they make 6 cents profit on gas that cost them $1.05 to make (Or similar, you get my point =) Also, the gas we have now was made with oil that cost $50/barrel instead of oil that cost $65/barrel, yet we're being charged the $65/barrel price! Christopher Fisk -- I WILL NOT DO MATH IN CLASS I WILL NOT DO MATH IN CLASS Lisa Simpson on chalkboard in episode BABF07
Re: Re: Re: Re: [H] Gas prices
So then if you're already filling your tank, what's the point of cracking more? Seems like it would add needless expense, complexity, and weight to the vehicle. >From: Thane Sherrington <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Date: Wed Aug 17 15:00:37 CDT 2005 >To: The Hardware List >Subject: Re: Re: Re: [H] Gas prices >At 04:51 PM 17/08/2005, Ben Ruset wrote: >>If you're cracking hydrogen in your car why would you need to fill up at a >>station? > >Because cracking hydrogen requires more power than you can generate on >current solar panels small enough to fit on a car roof. IIRC, there's a >company here that sells a 4x2 solar panel that generates 10W. There's no >way that's enough power to generate hydrogen on the fly. > >T
Re: Re: Re: [H] Gas prices
At 04:51 PM 17/08/2005, Ben Ruset wrote: If you're cracking hydrogen in your car why would you need to fill up at a station? Because cracking hydrogen requires more power than you can generate on current solar panels small enough to fit on a car roof. IIRC, there's a company here that sells a 4x2 solar panel that generates 10W. There's no way that's enough power to generate hydrogen on the fly. T
Re: Re: Re: [H] Gas prices
If you're cracking hydrogen in your car why would you need to fill up at a station? >From: Thane Sherrington <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Date: Wed Aug 17 13:56:41 CDT 2005 >To: The Hardware List >Subject: Re: Re: [H] Gas prices >At 03:52 PM 17/08/2005, Gary VanderMolen wrote: > > >>Did someone repeal the laws of physics and chemistry? >> >>It takes more energy to crack water than you get back when >>recombining the hydrogen and oxygen. > >I think that report was a misunderstanding of the technology. The idea is >to use solar power in a large plant to crack water into hydrogen. You >would fill up with hydrogen at a gas station, and burn it in your >car. Hummer is releasing a model that does this as well. Hydrogen is an >energy carrier like oil, it isn't free energy. > >T
Re: Re: RE: Re: [H] Gas prices
On Wed, 17 Aug 2005, Ben Ruset wrote: The energy to crack the water was from solar panels mounted on the roof. Apparently they have a similar system now hybridized with a gasoline engine in a 7 series. Again, why? Just use the damn electricity from the solor panels to power the car, none of this "make your own hydrogen" step. Solar panels can't provide enough power to run a full sized car, let alone enough to crack the water into hydrogen at a rate to power a car. I believe you are reading the page wrong too. This image here explains: http://www.bmwworld.com/images/cars/7er/clean_energy.gif The hydrogen is created via solor power elsewhere, not "cracked in the car". The physics of it just wouldn't work at this time. Christopher Fisk -- BOFH Excuse #250: Program load too heavy for processor to lift.
Re: Re: RE: Re: [H] Gas prices
The energy to crack the water was from solar panels mounted on the roof. Apparently they have a similar system now hybridized with a gasoline engine in a 7 series. http://www.bmwworld.com/models/750hl.htm >From: Christopher Fisk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Date: Wed Aug 17 13:39:10 CDT 2005 >To: The Hardware List >Subject: Re: RE: Re: [H] Gas prices >On Wed, 17 Aug 2005, Ben Ruset wrote: > >> A few years ago BMW showed off a 5 series that ran off water. It >> cracked the water into hydrogen within the car itself. >> >> Of course that tech won't ever see the light of day. :( > >This doesn't make sense. It takes energy to split water into Oxygen and >hydrogen. To then burn that hydrogen to power the car is just a waste of >energy. Why not just use the energy used to crack the water to power the >car? There is no such thing as a perpetual motion machine =) > > > >Christopher Fisk >-- >BOFH Excuse #330: >quantum decoherence
Re: RE: Re: [H] Gas prices
On Wed, 17 Aug 2005, Ben Ruset wrote: A few years ago BMW showed off a 5 series that ran off water. It cracked the water into hydrogen within the car itself. Of course that tech won't ever see the light of day. :( This doesn't make sense. It takes energy to split water into Oxygen and hydrogen. To then burn that hydrogen to power the car is just a waste of energy. Why not just use the energy used to crack the water to power the car? There is no such thing as a perpetual motion machine =) Christopher Fisk -- BOFH Excuse #330: quantum decoherence
Re: RE: Re: [H] Gas prices
A few years ago BMW showed off a 5 series that ran off water. It cracked the water into hydrogen within the car itself. Of course that tech won't ever see the light of day. :( >From: 007 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Date: Wed Aug 17 13:26:05 CDT 2005 >To: The Hardware List >Subject: RE: Re: [H] Gas prices >The most fuel efficient cars use heavy water. > >007. > >-Original Message- >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Christopher Fisk >Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 2:16 PM >To: The Hardware List >Subject: Re: Re: [H] Gas prices > > >On Wed, 17 Aug 2005, Ben Ruset wrote: > >> It's funny, though, that the gas companies are posting record profits. >> So I really wonder how much of this is an increase in oil price, and how >> much is just an excuse to charge more for gasoline. > >I look at it this way, assuming that a gas company wants to make 5% profit >on every gallon of gas, it's in thier interest to have thier costs go up >5% because then thier profit goes up too. > >Instead of making 5cents on gas that costs them $1.00 to make they make 6 >cents profit on gas that cost them $1.05 to make (Or similar, you get my >point =) > > >Also, the gas we have now was made with oil that cost $50/barrel instead >of oil that cost $65/barrel, yet we're being charged the $65/barrel price! > > >Christopher Fisk >-- >I WILL NOT DO MATH IN CLASS >I WILL NOT DO MATH IN CLASS > Lisa Simpson on chalkboard in episode BABF07
