Re: [H] Free or Cheap AV Software
In the case of condoms or AV, PERFORMANCE! ;-) dhs wrote: How about PAY for the $5 condom, put it on, AND put the FREE one over it? If the result is protection, what's the harm? Now, if you wish to move back to the lack of feeling(freedom) discussion, then I'm just gonna say Y(personal)MMV JMHO! Trojan and Me be good friends! Best, Duncan __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: [H] Free or Cheap AV Software
I've got to say all this talk of wearing condoms on top of condoms makes me think of Naked Gun. CW Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless -Original Message- From: j maccraw [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 04:01:09 To:The Hardware List hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: Re: [H] Free or Cheap AV Software In the case of condoms or AV, PERFORMANCE! ;-) dhs wrote: How about PAY for the $5 condom, put it on, AND put the FREE one over it? If the result is protection, what's the harm? Now, if you wish to move back to the lack of feeling(freedom) discussion, then I'm just gonna say Y(personal)MMV JMHO! Trojan and Me be good friends! Best, Duncan __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: [H] Free or Cheap AV Software
LOL! Okay, you win! Duncan On Wed, 03 Jan 2007 07:01 , j maccraw [EMAIL PROTECTED] sent: In the case of condoms or AV, PERFORMANCE! ;-) This email scanned for Viruses and Spam by ZCloud.net
RE: [H] Free or Cheap AV Software
Funny how double bagging in both the physical and digital realms result in inferior protection :) Two condoms on top of each other can cause tearing and two AV programs battling it out will cause false positives and hinder each other's ability to do their job. From: dhs [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: The Hardware List hardware@hardwaregroup.com To: The Hardware List hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: RE: [H] Free or Cheap AV Software Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2007 17:04:22 How about PAY for the $5 condom, put it on, AND put the FREE one over it? If the result is protection, what's the harm? Now, if you wish to move back to the lack of feeling(freedom) discussion, then I'm just gonna say Y(personal)MMV JMHO! Trojan and Me be good friends! Best, Duncan _ Get live scores and news about your team: Add the Live.com Football Page www.live.com/?addtemplate=footballicid=T001MSN30A0701
Re: [H] Free or Cheap AV Software
Also, the best way to avoid any infections in both realms is to become completely isolatedno connections of any type! Now, who wants that? Hayes Elkins wrote: Funny how double bagging in both the physical and digital realms result in inferior protection :) Two condoms on top of each other can cause tearing and two AV programs battling it out will cause false positives and hinder each other's ability to do their job. From: dhs [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: The Hardware List hardware@hardwaregroup.com To: The Hardware List hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: RE: [H] Free or Cheap AV Software Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2007 17:04:22 How about PAY for the $5 condom, put it on, AND put the FREE one over it? If the result is protection, what's the harm? Now, if you wish to move back to the lack of feeling(freedom) discussion, then I'm just gonna say Y(personal)MMV JMHO! Trojan and Me be good friends! Best, Duncan _ Get live scores and news about your team: Add the Live.com Football Page www.live.com/?addtemplate=footballicid=T001MSN30A0701
Re: [H] Free or Cheap AV Software
Wade Horn, assistant secretary for children and families at the Department of Health and Human Services, and his message to adults aged up to **29** years old: Abstaining from sex is the only effective method to prevent pregnancy or disease. Jim Bob Cletus, assistant secretary for rumors on the internets at the Department of Homeland Security: Abstaining from being online is the only effective method to avoid virus infection. The first bit is not a troll: http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2006-10-30-abstinence-message_x.htm From: Anthony Q. Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: The Hardware List hardware@hardwaregroup.com To: The Hardware List hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: Re: [H] Free or Cheap AV Software Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2007 11:32:47 -0500 Also, the best way to avoid any infections in both realms is to become completely isolatedno connections of any type! Now, who wants that? Hayes Elkins wrote: Funny how double bagging in both the physical and digital realms result in inferior protection :) Two condoms on top of each other can cause tearing and two AV programs battling it out will cause false positives and hinder each other's ability to do their job. From: dhs [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: The Hardware List hardware@hardwaregroup.com To: The Hardware List hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: RE: [H] Free or Cheap AV Software Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2007 17:04:22 How about PAY for the $5 condom, put it on, AND put the FREE one over it? If the result is protection, what's the harm? Now, if you wish to move back to the lack of feeling(freedom) discussion, then I'm just gonna say Y(personal)MMV JMHO! Trojan and Me be good friends! Best, Duncan _ Get live scores and news about your team: Add the Live.com Football Page www.live.com/?addtemplate=footballicid=T001MSN30A0701 _ Your Hotmail address already works to sign into Windows Live Messenger! Get it now http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwme002001msn/direct/01/?href=http://get.live.com/messenger/overview
RE: [H] Free or Cheap AV Software
How about PAY for the $5 condom, put it on, AND put the FREE one over it? If the result is protection, what's the harm? Now, if you wish to move back to the lack of feeling(freedom) discussion, then I'm just gonna say Y(personal)MMV JMHO! Trojan and Me be good friends! Best, Duncan On Thu, 28 Dec 2006 09:03 , Wayne Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] sent: At 07:58 AM 12/28/2006, Thane Sherrington typed: Maybe one can't prove a best solution (too many variables) but one can prove which AV gives the highest level of protection in testing. The Avast for pay isn't as good as some of the other for pay AVs out there. We can extrapolate from that the the free version is at best no better and at worst, worse than the for pay version. My argument is that if there is a better level of protection, and it's cost is minimal, then there is no point in going with the free version. As an example: If I offer you two condoms - one is free, and it's 95% likely to protect protect you from VD. The other cost $5 and is 98% likely to protect you from VD. Which do you use if you know you are going into a brothel where VD in commonplace (I think the VD infested brother is analagous to the malware infested internet?) Clearly there is still a chance that you get infected, and clearly the best approach is common sense (don't have sex in the brothel) but if one is taking the chance, then why not spend the money? The downside clearly overcomes the cost. How about one not go to a brothel wear the cheaper condom ? With my luck even with the paid condom I'd get infected, that's if I could stand the inflection. ---+-- I'm a geek that loves to tweak. This email scanned for Viruses and Spam by ZCloud.net
RE: [H] Free or Cheap AV Software
Since you two seem to be trying to cover/uncover/recover so much real estate here, I wish to add my commendation only to one small snippet that I have found useful and currently in force after 7 years of testing: On Thu, 28 Dec 2006 10:34 , Thane Sherrington [EMAIL PROTECTED] sent: snip I'm not saying Avast is no good. I'm saying that any AV is so cheap, you might as well spend money on one and make sure you are getting the best rather than trying to do it on the cheap and hoping. I grow weary of trying to do everything computer ON THE CHEAP! Certainly this has merit in some areas. But please, folks, either let's quit this AV bickering, or, just,agree to disagree. If you do not like your AV solution, GET A BETTER ONE! They do exist. ... :) Best, Duncan This email scanned for Viruses and Spam by ZCloud.net
Re: [H] Free or Cheap AV Software
Wayne Johnson wrote: But hey, common sense ain't as common as it use to be. ;-) Amen. Offered for y'all's perusal: http://techsupportalert.com/free-vs-paid-av.htm best, al
RE: [H] Free or Cheap AV Software
ThanksYou save me a bunch of time that I can now use for something else! HWG rocks! CW [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: = Thane, I think your line of reasoning is ridiculous. Who's doing the testing? Let me make a p air of arguments.
RE: [H] Free or Cheap AV Software
Wayne Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 07:33 AM 12/28/2006, Anthony Q. Martin typed: prevented inflections Ya'll cant preee vent in fleck shuns. :) Happy New Year. ;-) Same to you and everyone!
RE: [H] Free or Cheap AV Software
At 09:41 AM 28/12/2006, CW wrote: or whatever dialup because of one basic reason: it's super cheap. People who want to pay $15 or less a month stick with dialup and find it just fine because all they want is email. And that's all well and good. Here's the problem this creates for Antivirus software. Out of the box, first install: Avast! daily update: 85k (about a minute or so on dialup) Norton Internet Security 2007 out of box first update (as of yesterday): 73MB. Over a dialup connection: HOURS You're comparing Norton's first update vs Avast's daily update. While I hate Norton and don't use it, that comparison is completely invalid. What is Avast's first download plus their first update? I'm sure it's smaller than Norton's pig of a download, but once again, I wasn't talking Norton. You have a very good point about the size of the downloads, but since I wasn't discussing this, I'm not sure how it's relevant. NOD32's downloads are small as are Sophos' downloads. So, who do I think has more up to date antivirus? I seriously doubt it's the person with the norton. Hell, even Symantec gets this and in their corporate product, the MicroDefs downloads are small and daily. Chris, you're taking the worst case (Norton) and then trying to use it to disprove my argument (arguing, I guess, that free is always better.) That's not realistic. I don't use or recommend Norton AV products. No one in their right mind does. I'm arguing that if you are going to bother with an AV at all, you might as well spend some money and get the best you can. I base that argument on the following: 1)AV isn't expensive - you spend $15 per month for the Internet plus, say $500 for a computer. So you clearly have about $680 to spend on computing in the first year. AV, (at approximately $49 for NOD32) is 7% of that cost. Even after the first year a renewal ($39 for NOD32) vs $180 for Internet is still only 22% of the total cost of computing. If you can afford $15 a month, surely you can afford an additional $4 a month for the best AV you can get (if you prefer, you can get Kaspersky in place of NOD32, the prices are virtually identical.) Antivirus software is only as good as it's ability to quickly update and recover. Avast! has small updates that can be retrieved or quickly inserted even into a screwed up box. And it's boot-time-scan provides it an outside of windows utility that does an effective job of wiping out virus before windows restarts. I would argue that an infected box is not repairable from within its OS. Perhaps Avast is doing something no one else has been able to do and is a much better AV. I haven't used it so I don't know - and I don't have time to run regular comparitives against all AVs, so I have to assume Virus Bulletin, AV Comparitives, etc do a good job of doing that. Avast doesn't show well on AV-Comparatives - in the August tests, it caught 2 out of 10 polymorphic and 91.69% of the rest. NOD32 (which I'm simply using as an example since it is also a lightweight AV) caught 8 out of 10 polymorphic and 98.61% of the rest. In the November Pro-Active tests (an even better test, from what I understand) Avast caught 18% and NOD32 caught 53%. I don't see how anyone can compare the two. Outside of a well updated BART, Avast provides one of the more effective solutions to fixing a virus infected PC. Any repair shop worth it's salt would be running an offline test of some sort. I'm not talking about that situation. I'm talking about the end user. If you have a PC you know is infected, and you run out and buy NIS or McAfee to save you, I wish you luck because you're going to end up totally hosed. Because both of the products require a reboot before they update, by the time you get back up into windows both products tend to be pooched before you get a chance. And sustaining a large download while you're infected, even on a broadband connection is nigh impossible. Neither offer effective pre-boot execution, and even if they did, since both of them shipped with massive engine flaws (both have entirely new engines available for download since they went out in retail box) even if you could get a scan how accurate would it be? Ok - I'm still not sure where Norton/McAfee came from - I certainly didn't bring them up - and I would agree that there are better options. But if you're infected, you take it to a shop, let them clean it up and then put a good AV on. Or put on an AV before it gets infected. Once again, this doesn't bear on my argument because I'm not saying Avast is no good. I'm saying that any AV is so cheap, you might as well spend money on one and make sure you are getting the best rather than trying to do it on the cheap and hoping. 1) Is this an AV that can stay current with updates on it's own? An AV that isn't current is worthless (to use your condom example: a condom may be 98% or whatever, but
RE: [H] Free or Cheap AV Software
You're comparing Norton's first update vs Avast's daily update. While I hate Norton and don't use it, that comparison is completely invalid. What is Avast's first download plus their first update? I'm sure it's smaller than Norton's pig of a download, but once again, I wasn't talking Norton. The reason is because Avast! Free is updated weekly at their website in the download. Downloading the whole program is 6MB - smaller then Norton's first update. Downloading your first update will NEVER be more then 1MB. I have a box here running NIS 2007. It last updated 12/21/06. This morning's update: 9.2MB. That's an update that is only 1 weeks worth! You have a very good point about the size of the downloads, but since I wasn't discussing this, I'm not sure how it's relevant. NOD32's downloads are small as are Sophos' downloads. I agree, and as I've noted, NOD is a very good program, and as I pointed out, I would recommend it. Chris, you're taking the worst case (Norton) and then trying to use it to disprove my argument (arguing, I guess, that free is always better.) That's not realistic. I don't use or recommend Norton AV products. No one in their right mind does. I'm arguing that if you No, I'm not arguing that free is always better (it isn't) I'm just arguing that because something is free doesn't make it ipso facto bad. I would argue that an infected box is not repairable from within its OS. Perhaps Avast is doing something no one else has been able to do and is a much better AV. Ok - I'm still not sure where Norton/McAfee came from - I certainly didn't bring them up - and I would agree that there are better options. But if you're infected, you take it to a shop, let them clean it up and then put a good AV on. Or put on an AV before it gets infected. I think we're debating a bit in a circle because we aren't arguing the same point. What I'm saying is that for the average CONSUMER, there are only two AV softwares on the market (well, three now counting Microsoft OneCare). That's Symantec/McAfee which make up almost 80% of the marketspace. You can go to any Walmart/Target/etc. and buy them. Consumers who spend $15 on dialup know those products brand name. Convincing them to switch to ESET or Kapersky, which cost the same as two products they know of is a very difficult proposition. Imagine it this way: You know kitchen appliances. In a store there is a Maytag and a Kitchenaid. Next to those, there is one called a BOOGOO and it's made in Romania. Now, I can talk up the BOOGOO all I want, but the consumer has never heard of it, has no name recognition of it, so if it's the same price as the KitchenAid, the odds of them choosing it are nil. Forget the initial investment, think about what it takes to get a consumer to accept something that is different from what they think is the perceived standard. That's the only competition anything has. How much does one cost? Perhaps my argument fits here as well - but of course, I wasn't talking about firewalls. A few hundred :) Doctors offices happily have FireBoxes and Symantec Gateways, Trend Gateways etc. that do this function pretty well. So since Avast free is better than Norton, that means no one should ever spend money on AV software? That's insane. I think it's reasonable to assume that Avast Pro (for pay) is better than Avast free. If Avast Pro is in the $50 range, then my argument still holds. You're argument appears to be: If some for pay AVs aren't as good as Avast, then everyone should use Avast. I don't buy that argument, but you're free to use whatever you like. I think you're looking at this in a different lens then I'm suggesting. If you're going to PAY for something, yes, I recommend ESET. I like it, I consider it very functional, and I have installed it numerous times. But a big part of the buying audience will never consider paying for ESET. They haven't heard of it, they know nothing about it, and it hasn't made any market penetration into getting into the hearts and minds of the consumer. So, to the consumer who pays, there are only two AVs. In general, if I were to tell someone off the street who buys cheap internet to get an AV soft, they would look for those two brands - which is why I've used them as a staple. They won't pay for something they haven't heard of. I would have far better luck selling them MS OneCare then I would ESET, because they've heard of Microsoft. That's just the reality. So, in that marketspace, I would much prefer to give them the lure of you get a good product, and it's free because FREE can trump all when it comes to the mind of a consumer. I have no problem with ESET. I stock it in our store. I also stock NIS, McAfee, Onecare. I can tell you that despite my thoughts on which I prefer, Norton/McAfee outsell ESET something like 20:1. (if it's that close). But free
RE: [H] Free or Cheap AV Software
You do realize that in Aug 2006 this website you reference rated Norton ADVANCED+, 10 of 10 on polys, right? The free version of Avast is only available to home and noncommerical users. Otherwise, from everything I can find, it's the same as the Pro version. To my mind, the question is can these websites be trusted in their evaluations. In Aug of this year, Norton was among the top, but you personally have been down on it for a long time. Hence, is the website really giving valid recommendations based on these tests? I read their methodology and find it so complex that I wonder if they can really effectively implement it. Would you suggest that we end users change our AV software everytime one of these websites provides new results based on new testing procedures? Also, do you really think Norton got worse while NOD32 didn't, or perhaps the tests just show one in a better light than another? Can you or I be sure of what's really happening here? Finally, if there were a home/noncommercial version of NOD32 should we pay for the pro version? What if during the next testing period NOD32 drops from ADVANCED+ to ADVANCED or even STANDARD? Time to move on even if NOD32 has been doing a good job? I think AV software is really like any other software. For most people, it not about using the BEST software, but using software that is adequate for the task at hand while practicing safe sex activity. MS has been getting over for years because their software was good enough, though not the best in every catagory. BEST is very subjective and thus hard to really measure. But everyday usage by real people doing real things is effective at deciding what's sufficient. Using condoms that are not rated as the BEST while staying out of brothels is probably better than using the BEST condom while hanging out in brothels. Thane Sherrington [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 09:41 AM 28/12/2006, CW wrote: or whatever dialup because of one basic reason: it's super cheap. People who want to pay $15 or less a month stick with dialup and find it just fine because all they want is email. And that's all well and good. Here's the problem this creates for Antivirus software. Out of the box, first install: Avast! daily update: 85k (about a minute or so on dialup) Norton Internet Security 2007 out of box first update (as of yesterday): 73MB. Over a dialup connection: HOURS You're comparing Norton's first update vs Avast's daily update. While I hate Norton and don't use it, that comparison is completely invalid. What is Avast's first download plus their first update? I'm sure it's smaller than Norton's pig of a download, but once again, I wasn't talking Norton. You have a very good point about the size of the downloads, but since I wasn't discussing this, I'm not sure how it's relevant. NOD32's downloads are small as are Sophos' downloads. So, who do I think has more up to date antivirus? I seriously doubt it's the person with the norton. Hell, even Symantec gets this and in their corporate product, the MicroDefs downloads are small and daily. Chris, you're taking the worst case (Norton) and then trying to use it to disprove my argument (arguing, I guess, that free is always better.) That's not realistic. I don't use or recommend Norton AV products. No one in their right mind does. I'm arguing that if you are going to bother with an AV at all, you might as well spend some money and get the best you can. I base that argument on the following: 1)AV isn't expensive - you spend $15 per month for the Internet plus, say $500 for a computer. So you clearly have about $680 to spend on computing in the first year. AV, (at approximately $49 for NOD32) is 7% of that cost. Even after the first year a renewal ($39 for NOD32) vs $180 for Internet is still only 22% of the total cost of computing. If you can afford $15 a month, surely you can afford an additional $4 a month for the best AV you can get (if you prefer, you can get Kaspersky in place of NOD32, the prices are virtually identical.) Antivirus software is only as good as it's ability to quickly update and recover. Avast! has small updates that can be retrieved or quickly inserted even into a screwed up box. And it's boot-time-scan provides it an outside of windows utility that does an effective job of wiping out virus before windows restarts. I would argue that an infected box is not repairable from within its OS. Perhaps Avast is doing something no one else has been able to do and is a much better AV. I haven't used it so I don't know - and I don't have time to run regular comparitives against all AVs, so I have to assume Virus Bulletin, AV Comparitives, etc do a good job of doing that. Avast doesn't show well on AV-Comparatives - in the August tests, it caught 2 out of 10 polymorphic and 91.69% of the rest. NOD32 (which I'm simply
Re: [H] Free or Cheap AV Software
From: CW The reason is because Avast! Free is updated weekly at their website in the download. Downloading the whole program is 6MB - smaller then Norton's first update. Downloading your first update will NEVER be more then 1MB. I have a box here running NIS 2007. It last updated 12/21/06. This morning's update: 9.2MB. That's an update that is only 1 weeks worth! I'll jump in briefly... People are talking about updates loosely, and not comparing apples to apples... Everyone needs PROGRAM updates, but I think of the definitions updates more when I worry about AV stuff... SO, limiting myself to DEF updates: The Norton AV (residential types) has the auto update(s), and that can be a lot smaller, but they don't change it as often unless REALLY necessary... When you go to the Norton site, and get the DEF global updater in the one size fits all section, (not *actually* that generic), THAT is a giant update, and goes back to when the CDs were first pressed. (But ONLY for the definitions...) THAT update can change many times a day... FWIW...
Re: [H] Free or Cheap AV Software
Try to update the defs in NIS2007 without doing the program update... It fails. Everytime Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless -Original Message- From: Rick Glazier\(Gmail\) [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2006 12:17:41 To:The Hardware List hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: Re: [H] Free or Cheap AV Software From: CW The reason is because Avast! Free is updated weekly at their website in the download. Downloading the whole program is 6MB - smaller then Norton's first update. Downloading your first update will NEVER be more then 1MB. I have a box here running NIS 2007. It last updated 12/21/06. This morning's update: 9.2MB. That's an update that is only 1 weeks worth! I'll jump in briefly... People are talking about updates loosely, and not comparing apples to apples... Everyone needs PROGRAM updates, but I think of the definitions updates more when I worry about AV stuff... SO, limiting myself to DEF updates: The Norton AV (residential types) has the auto update(s), and that can be a lot smaller, but they don't change it as often unless REALLY necessary... When you go to the Norton site, and get the DEF global updater in the one size fits all section, (not *actually* that generic), THAT is a giant update, and goes back to when the CDs were first pressed. (But ONLY for the definitions...) THAT update can change many times a day... FWIW...
RE: [H] Free or Cheap AV Software
At 12:34 PM 28/12/2006, Anthony Q. Martin wrote: You do realize that in Aug 2006 this website you reference rated Norton ADVANCED+, 10 of 10 on polys, right? Yes I do. But for other reasons, I don't recommend it. Once again, this isn't an Avast vs Norton argument. I will state my opinion again: I think that given how cheap AV software is (in the general scheme of things) there is no reason not to buy a good one. If the free ones were better (or even as good) they might be worth considering. They aren't. And added to this is the lack of support. Buy a piece of at any reputable store, and they will help you with problems. Download a free one and good luck (open source is different, of course.) The free version of Avast is only available to home and noncommerical users. Otherwise, from everything I can find, it's the same as the Pro version. So maybe it's as good as the for pay one. Which isn't as good as the other for-pay ones. I think we're going in a circle here. I'm glad you like it. I'm glad you promote it. I think you're wrong, but go for it. To my mind, the question is can these websites be trusted in their evaluations. In Aug of this year, Norton was among the top, but you personally have been down on it for a long time. Hence, is the website really giving valid recommendations based on these tests? I read their methodology and find it so complex that I wonder if they can really effectively implement it. You're starting to sound paranoid here. I doubt these sites are in involved in a conspiracy to promote one AV over another. If you'd like to take on the task of running some tests, that would be great, but I just don't have time - perhaps we could come up with better tests that would be more accurate. Would you suggest that we end users change our AV software everytime one of these websites provides new results based on new testing procedures? Also, do you really think Norton got worse while NOD32 didn't, or perhaps the tests just show one in a better light than another? Can you or I be sure of what's really happening here? Why couldn't it get worse? Because you don't agree with the results they are wrong? Finally, if there were a home/noncommercial version of NOD32 should we pay for the pro version? What if during the next testing period NOD32 drops from ADVANCED+ to ADVANCED or even STANDARD? Time to move on even if NOD32 has been doing a good job? Yes. The value of paying for software means you get support - and generally a better product. If NOD32 went downhill it would be time to switch (when the current subscription ran out.) measure. But everyday usage by real people doing real things is effective at deciding what's sufficient. Using condoms that are not rated as the BEST while staying out of brothels is probably better than using the BEST condom while hanging out in brothels. You're right, but often it's hard to tell what site is going to infect you - so that sytem isn't always 100%. I'm trying out Avast based on your strongly fought support of the product. I hope to be pleasantly suprised. T
RE: [H] Free or Cheap AV Software
At 12:15 PM 28/12/2006, CW wrote: No, I'm not arguing that free is always better (it isn't) I'm just arguing that because something is free doesn't make it ipso facto bad. Neither was I. I'm a big fan of free, but only when it's as good or better. Or at least good enough. In the security world, good enough isn't, unfortunately. Not when there are better options. I think we're debating a bit in a circle because we aren't arguing the same point. What I'm saying is that for the average CONSUMER, there are only two AV softwares on the market (well, three now counting Microsoft OneCare). That's Symantec/McAfee which make up almost 80% of the marketspace. You can go to any Walmart/Target/etc. and buy them. Consumers who spend $15 on dialup know those products brand name. Convincing them to switch to ESET or Kapersky, which cost the same as two products they know of is a very difficult proposition. That's our job. I educate customers. 90% of the people who come into my store by NOD32 once I show them the comparisons. The other 10% generally come back in two months, I clean the new viruses off their machines and then they buy NOD32. If someone is shopping at Walmart for a security product, they deserve to get owned. How much does one cost? Perhaps my argument fits here as well - but of course, I wasn't talking about firewalls. A few hundred :) Doctors offices happily have FireBoxes and Symantec Gateways, Trend Gateways etc. that do this function pretty well. Ok, I might go free then. :) In regards to the BOOT scan, you might take a look at how AVAST does it. It is very impressive. Basically, AVAST stops the boot process and does a command-prompt scan (even in XP) before the GUI loads. This is one of those things that I really, really like about the software, and something I consider very unique. There have been times I've been to a client, whipped out a pen-drive, done an Avast install and installed the updates, told it to do a boot scan, and cleaned a PC before I left their building. That's something I haven't seen any other AV software do (period). I'm not sure exactly how they insert it in as a boottime scane, but it works, and it's text-mode prompts to delete/remove virus, etc. and keep a log file while it's at it create a brilliant paper trail that shows the client that the product worked. I'm going to give it a try. The boot scan does sound cool. T
Re: [H] Free or Cheap AV Software
- Original Message - From: Thane Sherrington [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: The Hardware List hardware@hardwaregroup.com Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2006 1:07 PM Subject: RE: [H] Free or Cheap AV Software their machines and then they buy NOD32. If someone is shopping at Walmart for a security product, they deserve to get owned. Or for a computer! I had to take advantage of that statement of yours! Chuck
RE: [H] Free or Cheap AV Software
The avast home edition is free to home users for non commerical use. If you ask me, this is a very, very good deal as the AV program benefits from the other commerical development efforts (pro, etc.). - [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: = Thane Sherrington At 03:44 PM 23/12/2006, Jeff Lane wrote: I would suggest AVG. It has a boot time scan, is free, and, I think the best of many, paid ones included. AVG doesn't have the best reputation. I can't recommend not spending money on AV given the downside of getting infected. ClamAV, freeware: - ClamAV (http://www.clamav.net/), the mother site of them all. - ClamMail (http://www.bransoft.com/clammail/en/clammail.html); ClamAV POP3 proxy, you can have it working as localhost or in your firewall/gateway Windows machine; can complement SpywareTerminator, which doesn't do mail. - Clamwin (http://www.clamwin.com); ClamAV windows port; it only works on demand; slow engine. - Winpooch (http://winpooch.free.fr); HIPS AV (realtime and on demand); works with clamwin; it doesn't work for me, brings my system (P4 2.8, 4 GB) to an almost absolute crawl (possible bad interaction with Symantec/Norton?). - SpywareTerminator (http://www.spywareterminator.com); also HIPS $ AV (realtime and on demand); clamav ported windows binaries; scanning is faster than Clamwin; however, see http://spywarewarrior.com/rogue_anti-spyware.htm#spyterm_note before installing; not yet ready for prime time (not clueless user proof), but something to watch as it evolves; saying this, it is what I am using right now, but I have disabled automatic updates because there are a few glitches; I am updating it (the AV signatures) through a custom automatic home made solution; also, see http://forum.spywareterminator.com/Default.aspx?g=postst=649 with a possible solution to some of the glitches; so far, works nicely alongside Symantec/Norton; will be testing ST with other realtime AVs one of these days... Besides ClamAV, there are other (freeware/opensource) solutions out there (in no particular order): http://www.freesoftware4all.co.uk/security.htm http://osswin.sourceforge.net/#security http://sectools.org/ http://www.ossec.net/ http://www.techsupportalert.com/best_46_free_utilities.htm http://www.jasons-toolbox.com/TestEmail/ And this little thing http://www.yoggie.com/gatekeeper_pro.shtml, but it smells vaporware (see expected release dates) Best wishes, mikesierra
RE: [H] Free or Cheap AV Software
At 08:44 PM 26/12/2006, - wrote: ClamAV, freeware: I've read some bad stuff about ClamAV as well. Perhaps it has gotten better, but I look at it this way: Anti-virus - $49 per year, $4.08 per month, 0.14 per day. If your data is worth less than $0.14 per day than just go with no AV at all and be very careful. T
RE: [H] Free or Cheap AV Software
At 11:37 AM 12/27/2006, you wrote: At 08:44 PM 26/12/2006, - wrote: ClamAV, freeware: I've read some bad stuff about ClamAV as well. I tried it on one of my setups it is only a scanner, and worse, it's a very slow scanner. On a system with 550GB it took Clam about 16 hours to complete a full scan. Perhaps it has gotten better, but I look at it this way: Anti-virus - $49 per year, $4.08 per month, 0.14 per day. If your data is worth less than $0.14 per day than just go with no AV at all and be very careful. T
Re: [H] Free or Cheap AV Software
At 02:14 PM 12/27/2006, you wrote: In all seriousness. If I compared the number of people that we had bring us borked machines with mcafee or norton to those with borked machines and avast... No AV software is perfect but I would trust Avast over Norton (non corp) any day. While Symantecs corporate product is good, their desktop product is worthless. Avast's small frequent updates, boot-time pre-os scan and other functions make it one of the better av softs I've tried. Period CW Avast is very popular but I prefer the interface to ATIVIR, and in PCWORLD run offs ATIVIR did better then Avast. Both are free, both have been around for about the same amount of time.
RE: [H] Free or Cheap AV Software
Thane Sherrington At 03:44 PM 23/12/2006, Jeff Lane wrote: I would suggest AVG. It has a boot time scan, is free, and, I think the best of many, paid ones included. AVG doesn't have the best reputation. I can't recommend not spending money on AV given the downside of getting infected. ClamAV, freeware: - ClamAV (http://www.clamav.net/), the mother site of them all. - ClamMail (http://www.bransoft.com/clammail/en/clammail.html); ClamAV POP3 proxy, you can have it working as localhost or in your firewall/gateway Windows machine; can complement SpywareTerminator, which doesn't do mail. - Clamwin (http://www.clamwin.com); ClamAV windows port; it only works on demand; slow engine. - Winpooch (http://winpooch.free.fr); HIPS AV (realtime and on demand); works with clamwin; it doesn't work for me, brings my system (P4 2.8, 4 GB) to an almost absolute crawl (possible bad interaction with Symantec/Norton?). - SpywareTerminator (http://www.spywareterminator.com); also HIPS $ AV (realtime and on demand); clamav ported windows binaries; scanning is faster than Clamwin; however, see http://spywarewarrior.com/rogue_anti-spyware.htm#spyterm_note before installing; not yet ready for prime time (not clueless user proof), but something to watch as it evolves; saying this, it is what I am using right now, but I have disabled automatic updates because there are a few glitches; I am updating it (the AV signatures) through a custom automatic home made solution; also, see http://forum.spywareterminator.com/Default.aspx?g=postst=649 with a possible solution to some of the glitches; so far, works nicely alongside Symantec/Norton; will be testing ST with other realtime AVs one of these days... Besides ClamAV, there are other (freeware/opensource) solutions out there (in no particular order): http://www.freesoftware4all.co.uk/security.htm http://osswin.sourceforge.net/#security http://sectools.org/ http://www.ossec.net/ http://www.techsupportalert.com/best_46_free_utilities.htm http://www.jasons-toolbox.com/TestEmail/ And this little thing http://www.yoggie.com/gatekeeper_pro.shtml, but it smells vaporware (see expected release dates) Best wishes, mikesierra
Re: [H] Free or Cheap AV Software
Boot-time scans only happen upon request...but yes indeed, it slows boot time as it scans everything. But it doesn't need to happen upon every boot. [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: = Does this slow down boot time? [Original Message] From: Anthony Q. Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com Date: 12/23/2006 8:26:37 AM Subject: Re: [H] Free or Cheap AV Software This looks good. Thanks. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: = Avast Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless -Original Message- From: Anthony Q. Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2006 7:52:29 To:The Hardware List hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: [H] Free or Cheap AV Software I'm trying to build up a new Xmas PC for my mom. (I have to drive 600 miles tomorrow, so I'm in a hurry!) What is the best AV to put on here? Is there any thing cheap or free that's good? She's not very savvy, so updating needs to be easy (ie, automatic). Thanks. Oh, Merry Christmas, y'all! :)
RE: [H] Free or Cheap AV Software
NOD 32 really is the bes! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Anthony Q. Martin Sent: Sunday, December 24, 2006 1:38 PM To: The Hardware List; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [H] Free or Cheap AV Software Boot-time scans only happen upon request...but yes indeed, it slows boot time as it scans everything. But it doesn't need to happen upon every boot. [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: = Does this slow down boot time? [Original Message] From: Anthony Q. Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com Date: 12/23/2006 8:26:37 AM Subject: Re: [H] Free or Cheap AV Software This looks good. Thanks. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: = Avast Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless -Original Message- From: Anthony Q. Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2006 7:52:29 To:The Hardware List hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: [H] Free or Cheap AV Software I'm trying to build up a new Xmas PC for my mom. (I have to drive 600 miles tomorrow, so I'm in a hurry!) What is the best AV to put on here? Is there any thing cheap or free that's good? She's not very savvy, so updating needs to be easy (ie, automatic). Thanks. Oh, Merry Christmas, y'all! :)
Re: [H] Free or Cheap AV Software
At 03:44 PM 23/12/2006, Jeff Lane wrote: I would suggest AVG. It has a boot time scan, is free, and, I think the best of many, paid ones included. AVG doesn't have the best reputation. I can't recommend not spending money on AV given the downside of getting infected. T
Re: [H] Free or Cheap AV Software
Avast Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless -Original Message- From: Anthony Q. Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2006 7:52:29 To:The Hardware List hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: [H] Free or Cheap AV Software I'm trying to build up a new Xmas PC for my mom. (I have to drive 600 miles tomorrow, so I'm in a hurry!) What is the best AV to put on here? Is there any thing cheap or free that's good? She's not very savvy, so updating needs to be easy (ie, automatic). Thanks. Oh, Merry Christmas, y'all! :)
Re: [H] Free or Cheap AV Software
This looks good. Thanks. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: = Avast Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless -Original Message- From: Anthony Q. Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2006 7:52:29 To:The Hardware List hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: [H] Free or Cheap AV Software I'm trying to build up a new Xmas PC for my mom. (I have to drive 600 miles tomorrow, so I'm in a hurry!) What is the best AV to put on here? Is there any thing cheap or free that's good? She's not very savvy, so updating needs to be easy (ie, automatic). Thanks. Oh, Merry Christmas, y'all! :)
Re: [H] Free or Cheap AV Software
At 11:52 AM 23/12/2006, Anthony Q. Martin wrote: What is the best AV to put on here? Is there any thing cheap or free that's good? She's not very savvy, so updating needs to be easy (ie, automatic). NOD32. It's free, but it's cheap and it's the best I've found. T
Re: [H] Free or Cheap AV Software
You meant to say It's not free, but it's cheap, right? Does it have a boot-time scan like avast? Thane Sherrington [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: = At 11:52 AM 23/12/2006, Anthony Q. Martin wrote: What is the best AV to put on here? Is there any thing cheap or free that's good? She's not very savvy, so updating needs to be easy (ie, automatic). NOD32. It's free, but it's cheap and it's the best I've found. T
Re: [H] Free or Cheap AV Software
Anthony Q. Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: = Does it have a boot-time scan like avast? :I haven't use Avast - you mean does it scan on startup? Yes, as :files load, it scans them. It seems to interrupt the boot process (before windows loads) and scans all drives, sort of like a command-line scan prior to windows taking over the PC. I didn't spend much time reading it though, I just let it do it.
Re: [H] Free or Cheap AV Software
I would suggest AVG. It has a boot time scan, is free, and, I think the best of many, paid ones included. http://free.grisoft.com/softw/70free/setup/avg75free_432a861.exe Jeff - Original Message - From: Anthony Q. Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: The Hardware List hardware@hardwaregroup.com Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2006 10:57 AM Subject: Re: [H] Free or Cheap AV Software Anthony Q. Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: = Does it have a boot-time scan like avast? :I haven't use Avast - you mean does it scan on startup? Yes, as :files load, it scans them. It seems to interrupt the boot process (before windows loads) and scans all drives, sort of like a command-line scan prior to windows taking over the PC. I didn't spend much time reading it though, I just let it do it.
Re: [H] Free or Cheap AV Software
OPsss. Red face. Forget my last message. I was thinking auto updates. Jeff (Senior blank moment expert) I would suggest AVG. It has a boot time scan, is free, and, I think the best of many, paid ones included. http://free.grisoft.com/softw/70free/setup/avg75free_432a861.exe Jeff - Original Message - From: Anthony Q. Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: The Hardware List hardware@hardwaregroup.com Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2006 10:57 AM Subject: Re: [H] Free or Cheap AV Software Anthony Q. Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: = Does it have a boot-time scan like avast? :I haven't use Avast - you mean does it scan on startup? Yes, as :files load, it scans them. It seems to interrupt the boot process (before windows loads) and scans all drives, sort of like a command-line scan prior to windows taking over the PC. I didn't spend much time reading it though, I just let it do it.
Re: [H] Free or Cheap AV Software
Does this slow down boot time? [Original Message] From: Anthony Q. Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com Date: 12/23/2006 8:26:37 AM Subject: Re: [H] Free or Cheap AV Software This looks good. Thanks. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: = Avast Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless -Original Message- From: Anthony Q. Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2006 7:52:29 To:The Hardware List hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: [H] Free or Cheap AV Software I'm trying to build up a new Xmas PC for my mom. (I have to drive 600 miles tomorrow, so I'm in a hurry!) What is the best AV to put on here? Is there any thing cheap or free that's good? She's not very savvy, so updating needs to be easy (ie, automatic). Thanks. Oh, Merry Christmas, y'all! :)
